What is Flat Sour and How to Avoid It
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- If we do not follow important steps in canning, our canned food can develop flat sour. We discuss what flat sour is and the simple steps we can take to avoid it.
RoseRed Homestead Book Store: payhip.com/ros...
Website: www.roseredhomestead.com
Amazon Store: roseredhomeste...
RoseRed Homestead Channel: / @roseredhomestead
Trail Grazers Channel: / @trailgrazers3690
Any products we mention or show on our videos have been purchased with our own money and are recommended or not based on our own experience.
My daily dose of “education, with a dash of science, plus a smidge of pure common sense”. ❤❤ you both!!
Recently I opened a can of green beans that tasted like feet. I had no idea why since in all my years of canning I've never had that problem. Watching this reminded me that last year I had exhausted myself one day with canning and decided to just go to bed and take the jars out in the morning. It's the only time I've done that and, yep, it was with a batch of green greens. Thanks for the info! It's always good to know WHY we are doing something, not just what we should be doing.
The food becomes sour with production of acid from carbohydrates due to germination and growth of facultative anaerobic G, stearothermophilus and B coagulans. Green beans do not have very many carbs, like corn, peas, carrots, sweet potatoes, potatoes, or dry beans. I wonder if it may have been something else that caused that taste?
Interesting. Looks like I have some research to do.@@gardengrowinmawmaw8642
Sorry, just have to ask how you know what feet taste like? Hahaha. Couldn't resist!
LOL I'll never tell ; ) @@linkay6
Just had a chance to watch. When I am water bath canning shave several racks and I lift them out and grab another rack and keep wot. That gives the jars time to cool
I guess the reason that I haven't had this happen is because I'm always too excited to get the jars out, and on to the counter so I can admire my handiwork! Lol! 😊
Me too!
Thank you so much! I have never heard of this nor, thankfully, have I ever experienced it. I have not left jars in the canner for an excessive amount of time. However, I have put them on a towel on the counter about a half inch apart and immediately covered with a towel. No more. You have taught me so much. I appreciate all you have to share with us…and with others! Blessings
So glad you addressed this. My first batch of canned chili was left in the canner overnight, and it definitely developed flat sour. I'd canned it trying to get my partner to stop buying and eating Hormel chili ($$ and not good for him). He was very suspicious of the taste, thinking I was poisoning him. I tasted some of it, and he was right: It tasted (to quote you) "nastyish"! I researched and found out info on flat sour and told him it wasn't going to kill him, but he still wouldn't eat it. Our dogs were the beneficiaries of my mistake! I'm really glad, though, that you showed the jar-spacing thing as well. I've been spacing my jars a little too closely together.
Great for the dog! We hope that you and your partner got chili straightened-out. Jim
Thank you for this information! I've been guilty of leaving my jars in my Nesco (mine behaves perfectly BTW) overnight because I had to get to bed and I'd canned a batch of something after dinner. Well thanks to you I now know better!
Thank you for all that you do and have done up to this point to teach us safe canning practices.🤗
I have 2 Carey (Nesco clone) electric canners and a couple of times I let the jars stay in overnight because I was too tired to wait the hour or so until they cooled off and I could open the lids. I don't think I have had "flat sour" but I sure know what it is now. Pam is right that most of the canning community doesn't know what it is. I had never heard the phrase until late last week when she said she would address it soon.
I'm glad you told us this. I do the rack, usually, but I have always draped a kitchen towel over them. I will not be doing that anymore. I had read not to have them in a draft, so I would put the towel over them to prevent that. No, I didn't actually have a draft. Lol. Thank you, Pam. You are a jewel. I've been fortunate that I haven't experienced flat sour in anything that I've canned since I did cover the canned jars. This just proves that we need to continue to learn even when we think we know all that there is to know or consider ourselves experts.
Thanks for letting us know your thoughts and experiences. Jim
50 years of canning and never heard of this, or experienced it. I’ve always removed my jars immediately after process completed. My mom did teach me to put a towel over the hot jars…I won’t be doing that anymore. Thanks you’re a wealth of knowledge!
Thank you for the carefully worded instructions to avoid flat sour. You make confusing processes so understandable. You explain reasons which will make me remember the instructions just because I now understand why.
Yes, that’s a very good point! Knowing the particulars of why things happen means chances are you will never forget.
Thank you for explaining everything so clearly; even when doing things properly, it's good to know why to do things that way. I continue to learn so much from you. It's a delight!
Thanks for this explanation. I knew about flat sour, but not the exact particulars. It’s always good to have the best and most accurate information.
I have watched videos of people in other countries “canning” tomatoes by boiling them for a long while, putting in jars, covering with lids and setting them all close together and placing heavy blankets over and around them. I know that’s not an approved method of preserving, but I wonder why they don’t get flat sour? Or maybe they do and they’re ok with the flavor? Idk
maybe its got to do something with the temperature? I assume they waterbathed their tomatoes (water boils at 100°C) and my guess is that flat sour occurs mostly in low-acid pressure canned foods where the temperature gets to about 115°C?
@@patkov2823 Idk, I would need to research it further, I guess.
The only time that I experienced flat sour was when I left the jars in the canner overnight to cool down. I was new to canning and thought it was ok. No more shortcuts!
I did that one time and the same thing happened.
I have All American canners and I’m petrified of leaving jars in too long because of a possible suction seal so I’m on the ball with removing as soon as it’s safe to.
Very helpful video. I’m 71 and Pam you have taught me so much .Jim thank you for working along side Pam to bring us the great videos.❤
Thanks for explaining this- I love learning about canning.
Thank you, Pam, for educating us about the why as well as the what. I really enjoy all the lessons you share with us. God bless you and Jim.
My Nesco cool down time seems to depend on whats in it. Sometimes an hour is enough, but most of the time it takes an extra 5 or so minutes. When I open my lid I always open it just partway and put a wooden spoon to prop it open for 1-5 minutes, because I had some siphoning one time when I opened the lid all the way. I had never heard of flat sour, so thank you Pam!
Thanks for this! I've been canning for several years and have never heard of this! Knowledge is power! Hope you have a great day Mrs. Pam
This info is so very helpful. Thank you so much for letting us know about this, Rose. 🌹
If it’s not harmful I would expect it may be yummy as a tangy condiment
Like a ferment
It’s about the acids right?
The lost ways is advertising on your video promoting water glassing eggs as a way to preserve eggs like the old days.... bahahaha wrong channel to do that because now we (RoseRed Homesteaders) know this way of "cowboy canning" is dangerous! Thank you for the valuable education you provide!
Hubby was eavesdropping, which led to a discussion on this. He was curious if we canned outside on a 90 degree day, would we run the risk of developing flat sour as we cooled down the jars outside. We looked it up, looks as if those bacteria like temps above 110 degrees! So we’ll be safe canning outside! Thanks for the good info.
Mom taught me to cover my jars after taking them out of the canner. I abandoned that a long time ago!
GREAT education video! I had been leaving my jars in the pressure canner for 3 hrs after it started the "Cool" cycle. The first time I used it when it said it was ready to open, I took the knob off the top, it spurted steam and scared me a little. (The jars inside also rumbled and siphoned almost half their liquid). And since my Mama is in heaven and can't guide me, I get to watch you! And learn science with love for feeding my family safely. Thank you from AZ!
We are sorry about the syphoning, but now it sounds like you have a safer way finish your canning cycle. Jim
Always such great information with the science behind it. Thanks, Pam (and Jim!)
Glad you enjoyed it! Jim
Thank you for explaining flat sour. I’ve been tempted to leave my products in the canner but then my long term canning history and “book reading” took over and removed my product. Again thank you for sharing.
Very helpful information! 👌
Never heard of flat sour, and don't think I have experienced it. That being said, my occasional leaving jars to cool down over night in the canner will come to a screeching halt! Thank you for the info!
Great!! Part of role is to help you to be safe. Jim
I am so glad to see a jar of potatoes after they have cooled. My jars were clear and full of liquid when they came out of the canner but then after they cooled they were cloudy and looked like a solid lump. My beans 🫘 were the same and looked like there was not any liquid in them, glad to know they are OK. thanks so much for all you do 😊
With years of canning under my belt, collecting recipes, reading about canning, I have to say this is the FIRST time I have ever heard about flat sour. It's always easier for me to follow the protocols, so that may be why I have no experience with what you're describing. However, I have, on occasion, left jars in the canner overnight and/or left them too close together while cooling. Moving forward, I'm using your advice. As always, your channels are always worth the time. Many thanks for all you do!
Our pleasure! Jim
Thank you for this info. I've canned 50 years and never heard of flat sour!
I had never heard of flat sour before! Good to know, thank you.
I adore your content. I have two of the electric canners you recommended after testing. I use whichever one is more suitable to what I’m doing. One does seem to be slightly pickier than the other, lol. Thank you!
Thank you! Jim
Something learned and shared from one friend to another. I also have many canning jar rings. When you said you put them loosely on your filled canning jars to store, I too decided I would set my rings loosely on top of my filled jars to store. The other day I saw that one of my filled jars from earlier this year had a little mold growing on top and it had sealed again. In further checking my other filled jars some of the rings had moved down on my jars, perhaps with the movement of the house. I did not feel comfortable with that so I have taken all the rings back off. My new thought is, why do I need hundreds of rings? So I have decided to keep perhaps 50-100 rings and get rid of the rest. Thank you for coming to my kitchen each week. It is like having a trusted friend come visit and help me. Much love Cindy
Canning rings take up almost no room. I have mine on a string which is on a S hook attached to the edge of the shelf in my canning pantry. They hang straight down. I too only keep about 5 dozen of each size at hand, and store the rest in an air tight bin on a closet shelf. So sorry to hear about your spoiled jars.
I keep them and put them on the jars (once emptied and washed) to protect the rim from potential damage. Takes up no extra space this way.
@@janetmaher1116 If there is any rust of any kind on a metal ring, it will most definitely transfer to your jar. It will come off the jar, but you'll need to scrub it.
YES
Shout this from the rooftops!
How many jars can u possibly can in one 24 hr period
Storing on dowels, hung at ceiling hgt works great too
In a pinch I have used wide mouth jar rings as English muffin rings in baking
I'd appreciate some opinions. I can in the 2nd largest all American canner that holds 14 quarts. It takes a long time to both heat up and cool down. I live in the hot and humid south, and my kitchen can sit around 85 and even get into the 90s during a big cooking/canning day. I have left my canning over night, and in the morning, the pressure gauge reads 0, but the canner still hisses for about 20 seconds or so when I remove the weight. So what is the line between letting the canner normalize its pressure and leaving it too long?
I was wondering the same thing - I have a Buffalo 37qt.
Hmmm, good question! I hope Dr Pam weighs in on this, but my guess would be to let the canner cool down naturally for an hour & a half, then help it along by pouring some tepid water gently & slowly over the lid.
It depends on how much volume you have in the canner to cool down. Quarts take longer than pints.☺️
Wow, i dont leave them in the canner BUT was leaving them close together and putting a towel over them. No more. Also ive never heard of flat sour, so thank you for the info.
I really enjoy your videos immensely, so informative. I like you have been canning for years, but now I enjoy knowing the science behind it. Thank you! Side note, I have a storage problem too, so I now hang my “extra” canning rings with a string. I just made a large loop with string, place many rings on the string, then pull one end through the loop at the other end. Then I just hang them from the corner of my shelves.
You are so helpful! I have learned so much and I have been canning for years. I also see I was taught sloppy canning. Or, I just wanted shortcuts. By using your knowledge I have become a safer, better canner. Thanks so much. You will always have those that deny. Know, that science rules!
Thank you.... you just explained what happened to my chicken /vegi broth.
I left the jars to cool in the pan over night.
Sooooooo gross, tasted like my stomach juices when I vomit 🤢
I recently purchased my Nesco canner and the instructions said the canner should be allowed to cool for one hour before attempting to open the lid. I tried to open my canner before the hour is up and it just will not open
I share your videos with my daughter. You cover so many safety tips. Thank you for sharing your experience and wisdom. ❤
Your videos have so very much useful information, thank you.
Good grief, you have to be the smartest woman I know! I love, love, love learning new information from you. You teach like nobody's business! Thank you for another great teaching moment. K. Billings, A Utahn living the dream in Texas, but wanting to come home
We really appreciate your heart felt comments. Thanks fir watching our videos. Jim
Thank you so much for the information. This explains why some green beans I had canned last year tasted sour and had to be thrown out. While I had removed them from the canner within the correct amount of time, I did set them on a towel on the counter and had them only about 1 inch or so apart from each other. Now, I can be confident that I know what not to do next time.
I know about flat sour, but have never experieced it! yay! fingers 🤞 🤞, Question: I have a PC which is down to zero...but when I lift off the weight pressure is escaping... should I just allow it to escape and then lift off the lid? All American 941, it takes a couple hours to come down to zero. if full double stacked. Even then I get pressure escaping even at zero....should I release this pressure?
I recently canned some chicken soup in my Nesco. I fell asleep while waiting for the canner to cool down. Not sure how long the jars were in there. Maybe an hour. The contents of the jars were still bubbling like crazy, so I figured it was okay. But, the inner pot of the canner took on a nasty smell that I can't get rid of. It smells like rotten eggs! Is this "flat sour"? I haven't opened the jars yet to check them out.
After watching your presentation I do have a couple questions that you did not address. This bacteria "loves" heat, at what temperature is it killed? Why are some jars affected and others not? if the jars and lids are properly prepared (jars washed in soapy water, dried in a hot oven. After washing lids immersed in boiling water before being placing on jar) doesn't the soap in the hot water destroy the cell membrane of the bacteria?
I do a lot of canning, luckily I've not had this problem. There are times being compulsive obsessive is a virtue. I do have the fancy new "pressure pot" I will use it for cooking, NEVER for canning. If I have a small batch of anything it's done in my Mirro 4 quart "pressure pan" from 1950. There are times "new and electronic" is not better.
Never too old to learn.
This was brilliant and much needed….I’ve done ALL the wrong things ❤❤❤❤
I canned beef stew last year as you showed on one of your videos. When I took the jars out of the canned the jars had “syphoned” the liquid out a couple inches. One was almost half down. I called our extension office and the lady said it “should” be ok. I haven’t opened yet and thinking I shouldn’t take a chance and just toss it. What’s your advice and how do I prevent from happening again as I’ve never had this happen and don’t know what caused it. Thank you for all your videos and advice. Barb
Im new to canning..i did not know this very important information. Thank you.i learned valuable lesson just now
Excellent Advice! Thanks for the great educational video!
Thank you for sharing this! As a new canner, this was news to me! I have definitely been guilty of this. Now that i know better, i'll do better!! I sure appreciate your channel. ❤
Thanks Pam
Thanks for this video. I am new to pressure canning. Only started in 2021, I have watched many videos where people said they turned the burner off and went to bed. So, I had no idea that could ruin my food and have done it a few times myself. I won't risk it again.
Good grief. I think I did this with two quart jars of beef and vegetables. I wondered if I had put in citric acid or lemon juice to make it taste so sour. Now I know...probably fell asleep watching tv after canning all day. It makes me sick to think I ruined all those vegetables and meat. Glad I only had enough for a couple of jars.
So much to learn! I love my Nesco for small batch canning. How do you know when the pressure has dropped to open the lid? The few times I've opened it soon after it broadcast "off" there was hissing so I assumed the pressure was still built up so closed the lid.
Thank You for doing these videos. I am learning a lot about canning the right way watching you. I am also reading about canning but i do suffer from dyslexia and sometimes need to see what i read in order to know i am comprehending correctly what i have read. I do have a question for you though.
You talked about removing jars even on a cold day. I was wondering is there a temperature outside that is to cold for the jars to be removed from canner right away? I live in a state that sometimes has temperature that get below 0 degrees F. We also live next to a lake which makes our outside temperature colder than rest of city. What temperature outside is to cold?
👍
Thank you for addressing the towel over the jars. I don't do that but always wondered if it effected the canning
I was scared to death the first time my broth jars syphoned like that! Even so, I love my troublemaker canner
I have one question here: if the pressure cooking process is unable to kill off B. cereus, could it be that it hasn’t gone on for long enough, or that the indicated temperature in the canner was actually not reached, or both? As in sous vide cooking, time to reach the target temperature inside the food is a crucial factor.
Uh oh! I know I've left a batch of jars in the canner to cool because it was super late and I went to bed. I can't remember what it was though! I guess I'll find out when I open it.
My Nesco is in time out. Started not venting properly, I’m back to my Presto canner.
Thank you for a full explanation. I didn’t know this about flat sour.
Wow! I just learned something new. Thanks.
Wow,thank you for all the information, I have learned alot with this video.
Thank you for this information I really appreciate it.
I had that happen with my green beans I thought it was from using Redmond salt
Thanks for the educational reasons behind the rules.
I’m guilty of having left jars in my canner, no more! Thanks Pam for educating us.
We learned this last week that we have canned food that is still good, not spoiled but are dated 3 years along their B B date. So, we are dehydrating everything that we can, or fruit we are turning into jams.
I use bulgy cords to string the canning logs on my shelves.
I learn something new from every video of yours I watch. I am so glad I found your channel. ❤❤❤
Thanks for finding and continuing to watch our channel. Jim
“Nasty-ish” 😂😂😂
Thanks, a needed a lighthearted moment.
Good information! Thanks Pam & Jim!
Thanks for breaking the explanation down of how flat sour occurs. I knew not to place my jars close together, but not that it was because the heat expands out.
Thank you for this info. I have to ask. Is the food still safe to eat?
Learned so much , yes I have been doing the cover with a towel.
Good to know. I've never had that happen.
Thank you. Great video!!
Thanks for this information. I've heard of flat sour but I didn't know what caused it.
Question: Does flat sour ALWAYS happen if you leave the jars in the pressure canner? The last batch of broth that I canned, I ended up leaving them in the canner, just because I didn't keep track of time. Should I just throw them out?
Open one and taste it. From what she said flat sour is not harmful, it just makes the food tastes sour. If it tastes bad, throw them out. If it tastes Ok the rest of the jars are probably fine.
Interesting. Thank you.
Thank you for letting us know.
got it thermofiles bad.:)
Your blouse is pretty on you, Pam.
Again I wish I had you for a teacher however I now have you as a canning teacher! I learn so much from you every time I watch a video. I learned about flat sour & that I need more room between jars as they cool💕
Sounds great! Jim
Thanks for the lesson, i have not heard of this.
Thank you! Never had heard of this and learned a LOT!
perfect. thank you
I was hoping you'd adress "hard case" supposed to be from letting the jars stay in the canner overnight, maybe it's the same...heard it about 15 years ago and a google search doesn't give me any results...love your videos, the science
I just did a google search (flat sour in canning) [is that to what you are referring:] and here are numerous sites. Jim
Thank you so much. I had never heard of flat sour. So now I understand why some foods can taste unpleasant when canned. just ran and jerked off the towel I had over my canned tomatoes. Thanks for sharing.
We are happy to know we were able to help. Jim
Had never heard of this
We hope that it was useful. Jim
You are such a good teacher 🥰
Interesting video. But a question about canning outside when its cold. When leaving jars out in the cold to cool down some, wouldnt that be like putting in the fridge and risk a faulty seal?
No, we leave them outside long enough to cool down and then bring them inside for a final cool down at room temperature. If you place the jars in the fridge, the heat from the jars may increase its temperature as they cool down. Jim
I did my first pressure canning recently (potatoes) I did take the jars out onto the counter using a timer but the contents of the jars were still boiling (bubbling?) is that ok? They do taste a little sour or lemony but I thought that was from the citric acid bath? Thank you
Yes, that is normal. We have see the continued boiling with many of our jars when we remove from the canner. Jim
Thank you! Had that happen !
Is flat sour a form of fermentation?
Great information!