Whew, good thing UA-cam doesn't permit showing hand loading info - just image all the gangs of young thugs armed with Remington Rolling Block rifles we'd have out there. I certainly feel safer.
Argentinian here. In my country we call it the Remington Patria, since it was the first standard weapon of our army after a long period of civil wars where each side had a salad of different models. The last use they were given was in the Navy (modified) as a rifle to shoot ropes from one ship to another (I don't know the name of that type of weapon in English) and with wooden bayonets to practice rifle fencing. Greetings from Patagonia.
from another random guy from argentina here, thanks! (just answering in english for the rest of the world to uderstand). every so often i see these kind of rifles as display or trophys or tokens on military units and competitions
yet another argentinean here, the pre 1870 models can be bought without paperwork, as well as the ammunition, if ammo was more common, these would be awesome guns to burn some powder on weekends!
@bearray57 I wish our pawn shop wasn't a bunch of Scrooge's. There's a few oldies in there that aren't even in very great shape and I want to buy them just to restore them to working order, but they want a premium for them and are happy to let them continue to rot
I love how you’re highlighting the practicality of reloading for these black powder rifles-it really opens the door for enthusiasts to enjoy shooting these classics.
Recently the oldest firearm ever discovered in the USA was unearthed in Arizona. A bronze hackbutt from the 1540 Coronado expedition. I hope to see it here soon 😊.
En mi país se usó en calibre .43 Spanish (11.15 x 57 mm R) Cuando fue reemplazado por los Mauser 1891 y luego por el de 1909, algunos de estos Remington fueron recalibrados a 7.65mm Mauser Argentino en el arsenal Esteban de Luca. Fueron repartidos en las distintas policías provinciales y prisiones. Otros, en calibre original fueron cortados burdamente al tamaño de pistola por parte de civiles y nombrados en la zona noreste del país como Remington Colí. Quien haya disparado uno de estos descubrirá que la sensación que transmite un moderno revolver de gran calibre no es para nada nueva... El que escribe "disfrutó" de unos pocos disparos con un engendro de estos. Solo para quienes gustan de las emociones fuertes...
I've owned two of these, one in 30-30 the other in 7mm and a "trapdoor" .... Rolling block wins hands down, easier to operate and clean, and much nicer to handle and shoot, The trapdoor is big, heavy and cumbersome by comparison, and the 45-70 is a beast of a cartridge and you can really feel it in your shoulder after shooting a course of 40 silhouettes (+10 sighters). As you say, US Army really dropped the ball on this one, not the first or last mistake they've made in equipment choices, nice video😁👍
Sweden-Norway must've been early adopters since it's known as Gevär m/1867 here. In caliber 12,17x44mm. 10.000 rifles were bought from Remington, and another 20.000 mechanisms for conversions. And then they bought a licence to make them our self. They were built by Carl Gustaf, Husqvarna and, in Norway, by Kongsberg.
The Danish Remington is also designated M1867. When they converted them from rimfire to centrefire, an addition /year was added to the model name. The Danish version was 11.7mm and not 12.17 like the Swedish/Norwegian
I don't know if it's still current, but Pedersoli used to make an "Egyptian Conversion" of the Rolling Block. I bought one directly in the factory, from Mr Pedersoli himself. The Egyptian army made a substantial order or Rolling Blocks to have a decent rifle instead of the array of totally obsolete rubbish they had since before Napoleonic times. When they received the rifles they realised that they didn't have the funds for enough ammos!!! So their rifles being as useful as an expensive stick, they proceeded in converting part of the rifles from .43 to percussion muzzle loading! Of course, it was the best muzzle loader you can think of, guaranteed. Good fun and good to hunt where only muzzle loading is allowed.
You can still sometimes see Swedish rolling block rifles in Finland. Mostly as a wall decoration etc.. The one I handled had pretty light and crisp trigger though unlike what you describe.
I shoot a Swedish one, in Norway. Those were originally rimfire, but most got converted to centerfire at some point. Not all of them are safe to fire, because a lot of people DIY'd the centerfire conversion without knowing what they were doing.
Taylors imports a very nice rollingblock carbine in 38 special/357 that is a nice plinker at 50 yards and is as good as you are at 100 yards with open irn sights. Getting a wheel gun, 1873 winchester, and a rolling block all in the same caliber makes things cheaper and easier if you are thinking of SASS type shooting or just like the old stuff
The 1850's to the 1890's are the most interesting time in guns development in human history. It's the time when the World powers really figured/hammered out the future of guns, magazines and the new addition of smokeless powder. I love your vids as always Ian, keep up the good work
There were a few reasons the US military did not go with the rolling block. 1. The gun did cost more than the 1868 convertions by a lot. 2. No safety for rank fire. As soon as you load it, it's ready to fire, lots of negligent discharges until allen himself improved the rollingblock in 1871. 3. No gas ports the trapdoor had gas ports in case of case head separation on the rolling block it all comes back in the shooters face on the trap door it shoots gas to the sides. Lastly ejection most troopers ran into exactly what ian ran into no ejection and one must pluck the cartridge out. Simply opening the door on a trap door gets that cartridge out of there. Still, thanks for the video. I do love the rolling block.But there are reasons that the United States never chose it
I'm a rolling block enthusiast, but the gas handling issue is very real. And was a much worse problem back then, with low quality cartridge cases that were prone to bursting. Rolling Blocks don't handle ruptured primers or case heads well at all, so before shooting one it is important to examine the firing pin and breechface to be sure it isn't likely to cause punctured primers. Especially so on centerfire conversions that may have been done by some village blacksmith. If enough high pressure gas leaks into the firing pin channel on an RB, the firing pin can act like a gas piston and knock the hammer back. Which unlocks the action, while there's still pressure in the chamber. The case then shoots out to the rear, skips off the breech and hits the shooter square in his aiming eye. Usually not fatal, but quite a few people lost their eyesight. My grandfather knew one of the victims to this particular failure mode, from when surplused rolling blocks were commonly used as cheap hunting weapons bored out smooth as shotguns. Poor guy was by himself hunting waterfowl, and had to row for several hours to get to a doctor. Later patterns of RB tend to have some mechanism for preventing this, by catching the hammer on some sort of automatic spring loaded catch so it can't be cocked unless you manually pull it back.
This brings back memories for me. My introduction to Remington's Rolling Block was that one was carried in the reimagining of call of the wild in 2000 by an older John Thorton in one episode. It had a scope 18 years later I saw/used it in a mission on rdr2.
First time for me was probably RDR1, and I absolutely loved it in RDR2! I used it when I could for no hassle head shots to aquire perfect pelts. Almost hard to imagine #2 released over six years ago! I may have to revisit it, it's been a while.
I never really had an interest in black powder shooting. A big part of that was just because I only ever associated it with muzzle loaders due to local hunting regulations and the popularity among hunters that I know. For whatever reason, I just never thought of more modern breach loading and bolt action with brass cases. So i just didn't find paper cartridges and ramrods to be that appealing. But watching this series of videos with the quick and simple loading and the huge cloud of smoke, it does look like fun. It actually has me considering searching around for a rifle. Though I worry that good ones like these or a Martini-Henry would be too expensive to justify for just the occasional bit of plinking around at old fruit or snowmen... I really appreciate your channel, Ian. Its entertaining and educational. I find clever engineering that manages to do a complex task as simply as possible to be fascinating so your videos are very interesting to me, especially the turn of the century, into the conversion to smokeless powder just an awesome era. There were very few standard practices so you've got so many novel ideas and intricate designs. Some are executed better than others, and its neat to learn about and see why something did or didn't work while you give a detailed explanation. And getting the historical context as well.
I love this series, so educational. I would love to see a time trial of each of these firearms pitted against eachother once you’ve finished going through them.
Well to be fair we did convert a few Springfields, but ordnance kept changing their mind for what they wanted, and by 73 I don’t think they were able to reuse even the stocks.
The French converted their muzzleloaders with the Tabatière, the Austro-Hungarians with the Wänzel, the Russians with the Krnka, etc. It’s just that none of them were as good as something like the Rolling Block and they were all soon replaced with better designs once the powers that were decided that the supposed thrift of converting old muzzleloaders wasn’t as important as keeping up with advances in weapons designs.
But the British Army began replacing the Snyder-Enfield with the Martini Henry after only a few years. While the US persisted with "trap door" Springfields until the 1890s.
I have one of those (Danish model), and have allways wanted to shoot it, but dont have the ammo, nor the firing pin. My great great grandad used it to hunt walrus on Greenland, because it had a huge caliber, and never ever misfired- important when you is facing off a polar bear in a blizzard. Great to see it in action!
The Netherlands used the Remington from 1870 on for their Marechaussee ( think Horsemounted Military Police forces ) in cal 11mm x 45R Centerfire. It was fitted with a extra long swivel-bayonet for riotcontrol. Later an amount were used for cavalry, which in the early 1890's were rechambered to 11x 50R for use with pioneer and pontoon-troops. Most lost their bayonets in the proces. Early ones were bought in the US, later batches made in The Netherlands in licence bu the Rijks Geweerwinkel or by Fabrique d'armes Emil & Leon Nagant in Luik, Belgium
Personally im glad we went with the trapdoor, sure it may have cost more but it makes more clicking sounds when you reload it, so it is the better system.
The Swdeds actually used muzzelloader barrels to build their first batch of Rolling Blocks. Actions from Remington and barrels from the Wredes rifle. I believe they also re-used the stocks.
Correct, and that's why we (Norway-Sweden being a dual monarchy at the time) ended up with the ballistically worst metallic cartridge caliber in all of Europe. Combination of early adopter syndrome and wanting to use those old muzzleloader barrels, which set the caliber at .50 ish. Large diameter bullet at low velocity meant rainbow shaped trajectory, while almost everyone else went with something a bit smaller with higher velocity.
Can definitely tell at the end which shooter had more practice with the rifle. But that is basically true of every firearm. The more experienced on the system you are, the faster and better you tend to be able to operate it.
I have a Husqvarna 12 gauge rolling block shotgun made in 1940's I presume. It can take at least light smokeless ammo no problem. It is a gorgeous weapon, full choke and the barrel is about 2 meters long 🤣 Also these newer ones have dual extractors and a extra safety mechanism on the hammer to prevent the breach blowing open in case of a ruptured primer.
In Denmark we had the Calvary version , it had a short barrel and was light,, it had a magazine in the stock you could open ,, a lighter load was made for those guns,, back then there was always some funny people who would slip in the a full power rounds to horsemens ;o)
Just watched on Patreon. My interest in the Rolling Block has grown ever since I got one in .43 Egyptian. It's unlikely I'll ever get to shoot it because... Ireland 🇮🇪. Still, it's a cool piece to own
A historian I met here in Sweden mentioned that his grandfather had a higher rate of fire (4 rounds, one loaded and three held between his fingers) with the Remington Rolling block than with the Mauser m/96. The Mauser was faster beyond those four rounds though.
For me one downside of the rolling block is the amount sear engagement. Likely difficult to get a target wt pull on the trigger. But they were used as long range target rifles so there must have been a way to lighten the trigger pull wt.
Feels like you could have some mini wristband bandolier with ammo on your support hand so you can grab ammo fast and easy without having to mess around with pouches, ofc thats about when they started making actual bandoliers I guess
Swedish license manufacturing of the Rolling block is what eventually led to the development of the gauge blocks, which is a pretty big deal in manucafrturing circles.
Always admired this and thought is should have been adopted instead of the Allen conversion. Would like to have one in a modern caliber just for the shooting experience. They were used as late as W W I by second line troops.
I'm curious about how the tactics worked for units fielding this rifle, especially considering the change from muzzle-loading and ranked volley fire that had been so common for so long.
"Sold as a cost-saving conversion, a story heard everywhere that never worked." Some countries even fell for this ruse, twice (M14), or even thrice (F18 Super hornet)
Also very popular among lego nations, I believe it saw a lot of action in Egypt, South America, and the far East as well as one little island full of dinosaurs.
The Bullard rifle basically does what Ian suggested, mechanically linking the hammer and breechblock. And throws in a tubular magazine, lifter, and bolt.
Rolling blocks also easily made the switch to smokeless powder. Not sure any of its contemporaries can say the same. Well they did convert some Martinis to 303.
IIRC, this is Ian's answer to the "If you could go back in time and hand the defenders of the Alamo new guns to help them win, what would you pick?" question.
I've read - don't ask me where - that the rolling block is suited to the lower pressure of BP, but smokeless powder's higher pressure can cause some case distortion. Apparently, the rolling block has a bit of "give" and the base of the cartridge is no longer 90 degrees to the case sides.
I like to think of the rolling block as 'the FAL of it's era'. Makes sense in my head. The US should have adopted it, other countries bought and produced truck loads, some of the major powers didn't use it because they had their own design. All of this can apply to both guns in my opinion.
Simple, incredibly sturdy, easy to operate and overall quite adequate as a military rifle. One of the best rifle designs, but sadly eclipsed by more flashy designs.
Here in Argentina there are plenty available whats not is the original ammunition so people normally rechamber to other cartridges I bought one in july in 45/70 but didn't have iron sights only a picatinny rail, now my gunsmith is adding iron sights It may not be the most optimal hunting gun but it is fun as shit
The M1873 Springfield was a fully “new” rifle, not remanufactured from existing parts. The 1866, 1868, and 1870 were resleeved from existing rifles with the Erskine Allin breechblock dropped in. But the M1873 was built from scratch. Surely having dies and other manufacturing elements in place at the armories did give the Springfield a leg up in the Terry trials, but it was not built from any surplus parts. And it is not quite as strong of an action as the Remington rolling block, but it was plenty strong and worked simply. The only “issue” with the Springfield was that the government cheaped out on the ammo. Extraction issues were due to shitty copper ammo, not any fault of the Springfield’s design.
There were two basic reasons the army did not adopt the rolling block. The first is that they had millions of surplus muskets plus the machinery to make them. The first issue model (1866) of the trapdoor had the trapdoor attached to a cutout on the breach of the barrel, which was sleeved down to .50 caliber. Along with a slightly altered hammer, it was mostly an 1864 musket converted to breechloading for a few dollars for each rifle. Even the later models could be made on the existing machinery by adjusting the settings. The system was developed by a government employee so no royalties. The second reason had to do with the rolling block action. After loading, the soldier was left with a loaded, fully cocked rifle. The only way to put the rifle on half cock was to press on the trigger while lowering the hammer. This was viewed as a problem by the army. They did try out a half cock version of the rifle, but did not adopt it because it was not deemed enough of an advantage over the trapdoor. The trapdoor was supposed to be loaded at half cock and only fully cock on the command of ready. An officer could tell at a glance if the rifle was safe. (half cock was the safety of the day)
A little extra work and you could have a sliding grip over the front that, when pulled back, cocks the hammer and then flicks the breech open with a release spring. Run forward, breech closes, hammer stays cocked,
The full version with hand loading information (not permitted on UA-cam) is available here:
forgottenweapons.vhx.tv/videos/black-powder-ep-5-app
Watched there; commenting here for magical engagement numbers. Thanks Ian!
Whew, good thing UA-cam doesn't permit showing hand loading info - just image all the gangs of young thugs armed with Remington Rolling Block rifles we'd have out there. I certainly feel safer.
I can't wait for the fanmade spinoff, "Forgotten Government Agencies".
Next month we are so back!
Argentinian here. In my country we call it the Remington Patria, since it was the first standard weapon of our army after a long period of civil wars where each side had a salad of different models. The last use they were given was in the Navy (modified) as a rifle to shoot ropes from one ship to another (I don't know the name of that type of weapon in English) and with wooden bayonets to practice rifle fencing. Greetings from Patagonia.
Underway replenishment
Todavia hay un montón dando vueltas 😂
from another random guy from argentina here, thanks! (just answering in english for the rest of the world to uderstand). every so often i see these kind of rifles as display or trophys or tokens on military units and competitions
yet another argentinean here, the pre 1870 models can be bought without paperwork, as well as the ammunition, if ammo was more common, these would be awesome guns to burn some powder on weekends!
@@pablodesantis6463 Correct, In fact I have a "tercerola" of cavalry. Barrel 1/3 shorter than a carbine
Brutality match:
Rolling Block vs. Martini-Henry
Those plus the trapdoor Springfield , and one of the SS bolt riflesin a mad minute
My first deer rifle was an ancient surplus rolling block Remington in 7mm Mauser. Wish I still had it, simple and accurate.
You can get another one for like 200. If you really wished you still had it, you can just get another one.
@@wingracer1614$200 for a 7mm Mauser Rolling Block? Although I haven't checked prices, My guess would be $900 seems more likely than $200.
Please tell me you called it the "venison tenderizer"
I have one now in 7mm. I love it. I think I paid $80.00 in a pawn shop 30 years ago!
@bearray57 I wish our pawn shop wasn't a bunch of Scrooge's. There's a few oldies in there that aren't even in very great shape and I want to buy them just to restore them to working order, but they want a premium for them and are happy to let them continue to rot
I love how you’re highlighting the practicality of reloading for these black powder rifles-it really opens the door for enthusiasts to enjoy shooting these classics.
sunny day, blue sky, a day off at the range, black powder aroma in the air, just perfect.
This is an amazingly well-designed firearm for the period. This could still be formidable in a combat situation.
Ian's collabs with Tom feel just like Kentucky Ballistics collabs with The Slo-Mo Guys. Simply natural.
Classic rifles are very beautiful
Ive owned 2 over the years. A great system with an elegant rifle.
Recently the oldest firearm ever discovered in the USA was unearthed in Arizona. A bronze hackbutt from the 1540 Coronado expedition. I hope to see it here soon 😊.
Definitely sounds forgotten.
Coronado? Sounds like it probably belongs in a museum.
We named the dog secretpandalord
@@secretpandalord So do you!
"You're too used to AR-15s and modern guns." Said nobody to Ian ever.
I thought the same thing.
That's what made it funny
I hope someday we get to see a Berdan rifle on enjoying black powder!
That's actually the next one we are doing...
@ sweet! Hopefully there’s no Turkish soldiers with Winchester 1866s out on the range when you record that episode…..
En mi país se usó en calibre .43 Spanish (11.15 x 57 mm R) Cuando fue reemplazado por los Mauser 1891 y luego por el de 1909, algunos de estos Remington fueron recalibrados a 7.65mm Mauser Argentino en el arsenal Esteban de Luca. Fueron repartidos en las distintas policías provinciales y prisiones. Otros, en calibre original fueron cortados burdamente al tamaño de pistola por parte de civiles y nombrados en la zona noreste del país como Remington Colí. Quien haya disparado uno de estos descubrirá que la sensación que transmite un moderno revolver de gran calibre no es para nada nueva...
El que escribe "disfrutó" de unos pocos disparos con un engendro de estos. Solo para quienes gustan de las emociones fuertes...
A Comblain would be cool
@@sharonrigs7999 that's on the list :)
I've owned two of these, one in 30-30 the other in 7mm and a "trapdoor" .... Rolling block wins hands down, easier to operate and clean, and much nicer to handle and shoot, The trapdoor is big, heavy and cumbersome by comparison, and the 45-70 is a beast of a cartridge and you can really feel it in your shoulder after shooting a course of 40 silhouettes (+10 sighters). As you say, US Army really dropped the ball on this one, not the first or last mistake they've made in equipment choices, nice video😁👍
Sweden-Norway must've been early adopters since it's known as Gevär m/1867 here. In caliber 12,17x44mm. 10.000 rifles were bought from Remington, and another 20.000 mechanisms for conversions. And then they bought a licence to make them our self. They were built by Carl Gustaf, Husqvarna and, in Norway, by Kongsberg.
The Danish Remington is also designated M1867. When they converted them from rimfire to centrefire, an addition /year was added to the model name. The Danish version was 11.7mm and not 12.17 like the Swedish/Norwegian
I got a Huskvarna in 8x58RD❤ realy fun rifle to shot😊
Ah, there's my favourite flavour of single shot rifle! Such a sleek, elegant and simple looking thing, yet pretty ruggedly reliable.
Plz keep expanding on this subject
Black powder guns are so underrated for some reason in my area
Thank you Ian, I love the black powder episodes.
I don't know if it's still current, but Pedersoli used to make an "Egyptian Conversion" of the Rolling Block. I bought one directly in the factory, from Mr Pedersoli himself. The Egyptian army made a substantial order or Rolling Blocks to have a decent rifle instead of the array of totally obsolete rubbish they had since before Napoleonic times. When they received the rifles they realised that they didn't have the funds for enough ammos!!! So their rifles being as useful as an expensive stick, they proceeded in converting part of the rifles from .43 to percussion muzzle loading! Of course, it was the best muzzle loader you can think of, guaranteed. Good fun and good to hunt where only muzzle loading is allowed.
You can still sometimes see Swedish rolling block rifles in Finland. Mostly as a wall decoration etc.. The one I handled had pretty light and crisp trigger though unlike what you describe.
I shoot a Swedish one, in Norway. Those were originally rimfire, but most got converted to centerfire at some point. Not all of them are safe to fire, because a lot of people DIY'd the centerfire conversion without knowing what they were doing.
Taylors imports a very nice rollingblock carbine in 38 special/357 that is a nice plinker at 50 yards and is as good as you are at 100 yards with open irn sights. Getting a wheel gun, 1873 winchester, and a rolling block all in the same caliber makes things cheaper and easier if you are thinking of SASS type shooting or just like the old stuff
You are evil! I had no idea that Pedersoli was making reproductions of this iconic rifle. There are variations in .45-70, .30-30, and even .45 Colt! 😎
Tippmann makes a .45-70, .357 and .44 mag one.
The 1850's to the 1890's are the most interesting time in guns development in human history. It's the time when the World powers really figured/hammered out the future of guns, magazines and the new addition of smokeless powder. I love your vids as always Ian, keep up the good work
I love the smell of black power in the morning. It smells like... VICTORY!
Black Powder Matters
That was me. I farted.
Brilliant in all its simplicity this rifle.
There were a few reasons the US military did not go with the rolling block. 1. The gun did cost more than the 1868 convertions by a lot. 2. No safety for rank fire. As soon as you load it, it's ready to fire, lots of negligent discharges until allen himself improved the rollingblock in 1871. 3. No gas ports the trapdoor had gas ports in case of case head separation on the rolling block it all comes back in the shooters face on the trap door it shoots gas to the sides. Lastly ejection most troopers ran into exactly what ian ran into no ejection and one must pluck the cartridge out. Simply opening the door on a trap door gets that cartridge out of there. Still, thanks for the video. I do love the rolling block.But there are reasons that the United States never chose it
Garrett, do not attempt to cloud the issue with facts!
@Everythingblackpowder lol il try not to
@@garrettfromsmokeinthewoods 😂
I'm a rolling block enthusiast, but the gas handling issue is very real. And was a much worse problem back then, with low quality cartridge cases that were prone to bursting.
Rolling Blocks don't handle ruptured primers or case heads well at all, so before shooting one it is important to examine the firing pin and breechface to be sure it isn't likely to cause punctured primers. Especially so on centerfire conversions that may have been done by some village blacksmith.
If enough high pressure gas leaks into the firing pin channel on an RB, the firing pin can act like a gas piston and knock the hammer back. Which unlocks the action, while there's still pressure in the chamber. The case then shoots out to the rear, skips off the breech and hits the shooter square in his aiming eye. Usually not fatal, but quite a few people lost their eyesight. My grandfather knew one of the victims to this particular failure mode, from when surplused rolling blocks were commonly used as cheap hunting weapons bored out smooth as shotguns. Poor guy was by himself hunting waterfowl, and had to row for several hours to get to a doctor.
Later patterns of RB tend to have some mechanism for preventing this, by catching the hammer on some sort of automatic spring loaded catch so it can't be cocked unless you manually pull it back.
@@Kaboomf well said
Really enjoying these black powder videos. I hope there are more to come.
very great and interesting video and rifles Mr. Ian. have a good one dear Mr.
I might have to pick up one of these to go with my high wall. Such neat action.
I've had both, prefer the Remington.
I love these fun with black powder videos!! Keep em coming!
This brings back memories for me. My introduction to Remington's Rolling Block was that one was carried in the reimagining of call of the wild in 2000 by an older John Thorton in one episode.
It had a scope
18 years later I saw/used it in a mission on rdr2.
First time for me was probably RDR1, and I absolutely loved it in RDR2! I used it when I could for no hassle head shots to aquire perfect pelts. Almost hard to imagine #2 released over six years ago! I may have to revisit it, it's been a while.
@tylerwilliams6022 I'm glad you enjoyed it too, I used it for no nonsense headshots hunting too, it was also fun to snipe with.
I never really had an interest in black powder shooting. A big part of that was just because I only ever associated it with muzzle loaders due to local hunting regulations and the popularity among hunters that I know.
For whatever reason, I just never thought of more modern breach loading and bolt action with brass cases. So i just didn't find paper cartridges and ramrods to be that appealing. But watching this series of videos with the quick and simple loading and the huge cloud of smoke, it does look like fun. It actually has me considering searching around for a rifle. Though I worry that good ones like these or a Martini-Henry would be too expensive to justify for just the occasional bit of plinking around at old fruit or snowmen...
I really appreciate your channel, Ian. Its entertaining and educational. I find clever engineering that manages to do a complex task as simply as possible to be fascinating so your videos are very interesting to me, especially the turn of the century, into the conversion to smokeless powder just an awesome era. There were very few standard practices so you've got so many novel ideas and intricate designs. Some are executed better than others, and its neat to learn about and see why something did or didn't work while you give a detailed explanation. And getting the historical context as well.
I love this series, so educational. I would love to see a time trial of each of these firearms pitted against eachother once you’ve finished going through them.
Jokes on you, Colorado River. Can't get your powder wet if there's a 100 year drought.
The Brits did convert the Enfield with the Snyder conversion
Exception that proves the rule, I believe.
Well to be fair we did convert a few Springfields, but ordnance kept changing their mind for what they wanted, and by 73 I don’t think they were able to reuse even the stocks.
The French converted their muzzleloaders with the Tabatière, the Austro-Hungarians with the Wänzel, the Russians with the Krnka, etc. It’s just that none of them were as good as something like the Rolling Block and they were all soon replaced with better designs once the powers that were decided that the supposed thrift of converting old muzzleloaders wasn’t as important as keeping up with advances in weapons designs.
But the British Army began replacing the Snyder-Enfield with the Martini Henry after only a few years.
While the US persisted with "trap door" Springfields until the 1890s.
I realy enjoy the two of you. Thanks.
Excellent headgear, on all counts.
I think one of my favorites things about the rolling block is that its lockup is SO strong it's even able to fire smokeless. That's wild to me.
the FN Fal of his time
And, like the FAL, he wasn't chosen by the US Army despite being much better than the competition ;-)
this series is a absolute favorite of mine on forgotten weapons.
Would love to see a chassepot/dreyse zündnadelgewehr or sharps rifles in this.
unfortunately we're only doing cartridge rifles, not paper cartridges, so no needleguns sorry!
@@JordanFlayer well thats explains why you had the 1874 gras instead.
thanks for answering :)
My favorite rifle of the era, own several including a custom built 45-70 with set triggers, long octagon barrel, tang-sight, etc.
You lucky dog
I have one of those (Danish model), and have allways wanted to shoot it, but dont have the ammo, nor the firing pin. My great great grandad used it to hunt walrus on Greenland, because it had a huge caliber, and never ever misfired- important when you is facing off a polar bear in a blizzard. Great to see it in action!
The Netherlands used the Remington from 1870 on for their Marechaussee ( think Horsemounted Military Police forces ) in cal 11mm x 45R Centerfire. It was fitted with a extra long swivel-bayonet for riotcontrol. Later an amount were used for cavalry, which in the early 1890's were rechambered to 11x 50R for use with pioneer and pontoon-troops. Most lost their bayonets in the proces. Early ones were bought in the US, later batches made in The Netherlands in licence bu the Rijks Geweerwinkel or by Fabrique d'armes Emil & Leon Nagant in Luik, Belgium
Personally im glad we went with the trapdoor, sure it may have cost more but it makes more clicking sounds when you reload it, so it is the better system.
The Swdeds actually used muzzelloader barrels to build their first batch of Rolling Blocks. Actions from Remington and barrels from the Wredes rifle. I believe they also re-used the stocks.
Correct, and that's why we (Norway-Sweden being a dual monarchy at the time) ended up with the ballistically worst metallic cartridge caliber in all of Europe. Combination of early adopter syndrome and wanting to use those old muzzleloader barrels, which set the caliber at .50 ish. Large diameter bullet at low velocity meant rainbow shaped trajectory, while almost everyone else went with something a bit smaller with higher velocity.
Can definitely tell at the end which shooter had more practice with the rifle. But that is basically true of every firearm. The more experienced on the system you are, the faster and better you tend to be able to operate it.
I have a Husqvarna 12 gauge rolling block shotgun made in 1940's I presume. It can take at least light smokeless ammo no problem. It is a gorgeous weapon, full choke and the barrel is about 2 meters long 🤣 Also these newer ones have dual extractors and a extra safety mechanism on the hammer to prevent the breach blowing open in case of a ruptured primer.
I own this exact model rifle, so happy to find a video on it
Cool - like these black powder videos!
Wow, that does seem simple.
Great series! I hope that gentlman has a werndl, berdan 2 and a vetterli to showcase
Working on the Werndl. Berdan II and Vetterli are both filmed. :)
Hell yeah, rolling block!
Nice! I'll have to have these made.
I've always thought the Rolling Block was an incredibly cool rifle. I'd like to have one someday.
1800s Black powder is just so endlessly aesthetic.
This is so much better than in range TV
I like his guy. Good sense of humour.
thank you, I didn't even know that such a variant of locking the barrel channel existed, great video
In Denmark we had the Calvary version , it had a short barrel and was light,, it had a magazine in the stock you could open ,, a lighter load was made for those guns,, back then there was always some funny people who would slip in the a full power rounds to horsemens ;o)
Just watched on Patreon. My interest in the Rolling Block has grown ever since I got one in .43 Egyptian. It's unlikely I'll ever get to shoot it because... Ireland 🇮🇪. Still, it's a cool piece to own
Re-enter in a dinghy and you wil have more rights
Have one thats Mexico contract in 7mm mauser.
A very fun rifle, and I understand why a bandolero was popular. Made it faster to reload
A historian I met here in Sweden mentioned that his grandfather had a higher rate of fire (4 rounds, one loaded and three held between his fingers) with the Remington Rolling block than with the Mauser m/96. The Mauser was faster beyond those four rounds though.
Great threads Ian 😊
Such a nice looking rifle.
For me one downside of the rolling block is the amount sear engagement. Likely difficult to get a target wt pull on the trigger. But they were used as long range target rifles so there must have been a way to lighten the trigger pull wt.
Fun fact. Husqvarna made lots of different rolling block guns. Both rifles and shotguns. They also made some into the 1950s.
"you're too used to AR-15s and modern guns" ah yes, Ian's CSRG 1915 certainly has a splendid trigger
I read the title as "enjoying black power" and though that was a smart yet spicy word play
I like the sound of black powder booming
Feels like you could have some mini wristband bandolier with ammo on your support hand so you can grab ammo fast and easy without having to mess around with pouches, ofc thats about when they started making actual bandoliers I guess
"Good Lord that's a heavy trigger"
Berdan II: 😈
I expect to see you plank that table when it's set up next time. 😂
Alacrity is such a good goddamned word. Ian rules.
Swedish license manufacturing of the Rolling block is what eventually led to the development of the gauge blocks, which is a pretty big deal in manucafrturing circles.
I knew that Sweden pioneered the gauge block , but this is news to me
I have a very bad condition danish rolling block bayonet in my collection. Found it in a disused building near to were i live in england.
Always admired this and thought is should have been adopted instead of the Allen conversion. Would like to have one in a modern caliber just for the shooting experience. They were used as late as W W I by second line troops.
I'm curious about how the tactics worked for units fielding this rifle, especially considering the change from muzzle-loading and ranked volley fire that had been so common for so long.
"Sold as a cost-saving conversion, a story heard everywhere that never worked." Some countries even fell for this ruse, twice (M14), or even thrice (F18 Super hornet)
I have two "PATRIAS" Carbine and full size 1879 and a lot of bertram brass!!!
Also very popular among lego nations, I believe it saw a lot of action in Egypt, South America, and the far East as well as one little island full of dinosaurs.
The Bullard rifle basically does what Ian suggested, mechanically linking the hammer and breechblock. And throws in a tubular magazine, lifter, and bolt.
Rolling blocks also easily made the switch to smokeless powder. Not sure any of its contemporaries can say the same. Well they did convert some Martinis to 303.
Yep. Just looked on gunbroker to see where the prices are at. Tons of them in 7mm Mauser for cheap.
I understand that the DoD in Elbonia just ordered 10,000 of these.
They need to make these again today in modern calibers.
IIRC, this is Ian's answer to the "If you could go back in time and hand the defenders of the Alamo new guns to help them win, what would you pick?" question.
Since it was black powder then ..1886 Winchester rifles and Gatling guns....there would be no Mexico
Maybe a mortar or a PKM would be better but idk
Were any barn doors harmed during the filming of this production?
More like the whole broad side of the barn wasn't hit. At least they could edit in fake sounds of hitting the metal
This is almost perfect in its simplicity. Also a really short action for the barrel length. Would've been great in US service.
Have always thought they looked pretty close to "soldier-proof". A solid design.
I've read - don't ask me where - that the rolling block is suited to the lower pressure of BP, but smokeless powder's higher pressure can cause some case distortion. Apparently, the rolling block has a bit of "give" and the base of the cartridge is no longer 90 degrees to the case sides.
I like to think of the rolling block as 'the FAL of it's era'. Makes sense in my head. The US should have adopted it, other countries bought and produced truck loads, some of the major powers didn't use it because they had their own design. All of this can apply to both guns in my opinion.
ah finally: my favourite rifle from red dead redemption, now shown in the realism lands on my favourite boomstick channel
Simple, incredibly sturdy, easy to operate and overall quite adequate as a military rifle.
One of the best rifle designs, but sadly eclipsed by more flashy designs.
Cheapler? Moderns of the marvels? I'm dying here
Very enjoyable.
Here in Argentina there are plenty available whats not is the original ammunition so people normally rechamber to other cartridges
I bought one in july in 45/70 but didn't have iron sights only a picatinny rail, now my gunsmith is adding iron sights
It may not be the most optimal hunting gun but it is fun as shit
I've seen them with a box magazine on the side of the action, from which the shooter could easily pull the rounds
I would love to know how many of my for-fathers used black powder in wars, as I only remember relatives using 303’s.
The .303 British was blackpowder when it was introduced in 1888.
It was adopted by the Navy. Back when the Navy could adopt its own stuff. Later it was Lee Straight Pull and 6mm Lee Navy vs. Army's Krag and 30-40.
0:57 should have picked M1867 Krnka instead. It utilized advantages of both Rolling Block and converted muskets.
The M1873 Springfield was a fully “new” rifle, not remanufactured from existing parts. The 1866, 1868, and 1870 were resleeved from existing rifles with the Erskine Allin breechblock dropped in.
But the M1873 was built from scratch. Surely having dies and other manufacturing elements in place at the armories did give the Springfield a leg up in the Terry trials, but it was not built from any surplus parts.
And it is not quite as strong of an action as the Remington rolling block, but it was plenty strong and worked simply. The only “issue” with the Springfield was that the government cheaped out on the ammo. Extraction issues were due to shitty copper ammo, not any fault of the Springfield’s design.
There were two basic reasons the army did not adopt the rolling block. The first is that they had millions of surplus muskets plus the machinery to make them. The first issue model (1866) of the trapdoor had the trapdoor attached to a cutout on the breach of the barrel, which was sleeved down to .50 caliber. Along with a slightly altered hammer, it was mostly an 1864 musket converted to breechloading for a few dollars for each rifle. Even the later models could be made on the existing machinery by adjusting the settings. The system was developed by a government employee so no royalties.
The second reason had to do with the rolling block action. After loading, the soldier was left with a loaded, fully cocked rifle. The only way to put the rifle on half cock was to press on the trigger while lowering the hammer. This was viewed as a problem by the army. They did try out a half cock version of the rifle, but did not adopt it because it was not deemed enough of an advantage over the trapdoor. The trapdoor was supposed to be loaded at half cock and only fully cock on the command of ready. An officer could tell at a glance if the rifle was safe. (half cock was the safety of the day)
A little extra work and you could have a sliding grip over the front that, when pulled back, cocks the hammer and then flicks the breech open with a release spring. Run forward, breech closes, hammer stays cocked,