#3 is scandi, the knife you showed for it was a sabre, a better (and correct) example for it would actually be a Mora. Also #5 is the sabre, which you showed a perfect example for at #3
6:00 - Correct. #3 is most definitely a full Scandi grind (without ANY secondary bevel!). The moment you grind the edge at a different angle it becomes a sabre grind ( depicted in profile #5). Interestingly, neither #1 or #2 when given a secondary bevel (which is invariably) are never referred to as sabre grinds. They are regarded rather as micro-bevels on flat or hollow grind blades. Part of what makes it all confusing. 7:41 - #5 - this is a pure sabre grind with a wide zero grind (like a Scandi grind). A Scandi grind has a primary (and only) bevel, which is a zero grind right down to the cutting edge, while the sabre grind has a flat primary bevel, and a flat secondary bevel which is zero ground right down to the edge. Neither have a micro bevel at all. 8.47 A proper convex grind should not have a secondary microbevel on it, as this changes its signature characteristic. A convex grind is actually a zero grind like a Scandi grind. This is one of the reasons it is so difficult to sharpen, except in the workshop.
A Scandi and a sabre grind are not the same thing in any way, and should never be used interchangeably. I've never heard anyone say a Scandi and a sabre were the same thing, or that some called the grind one thing, and others called it another. That just is not correct. A sabre grind has a strong secondary bevel. Sometimes it even has a micro bevel. A Scandi has no secondary bevel, a sabre always does. More, each time you sharpen a Scandi, you have to sharpen the entire bevel. When you sharpen a sabre, you only sharpen the secondary bevel, not the primary. You never touch the primary bevel on a sabre after it's ground, but you sharpen the entire bevel on a Scandi each and every time you sharpen the knife. A Scandi IS a zero grind bevel. A sabre is not. In fact, a sabre grins is what you have labeled as number 5. It always has a primary bevel, which is not sharpened, and a secondary bevel which is. It can also have a micro bevel. The difference between a flat grind and a Scandi grind is the height of the apex. On a flat grind, the apex is the top of the blade. On a Scandi, the apex is part way up the blade, but both are sharpened by placing the entire bevel flat on a stone and sharping the entire bevel each and every time.
Thanks for your explanation. I'm a butcher so most of my knives are flat grind. My favourite hunting knife is Buck G96 Skinner and now I know what kind of blade it is. Hollow grind. I love that knife and have owned it 20 plus years. I don't use it for skinning, I have Green River, Swibo, EFDick and Dexter Russel's for heavy work. EFDick do not make knives but I have some. Thanks again for the video. Cheers.
#1 hollow, #2 full flat, #3 scandi, #4 chisel, #5 sabre, #6 convex. Bevel basically means the corner is taken off at an angle. If you imagine it was originally a rectangle shape, the bottom corners are ground off at an angle, deep enough to meet at the centre to make the point of the blade. All of those, except for sabre don't have a secondary bevel. Most of those knives you showed were sabre from what I could see.
They make all kinds of hollow ground chisel grind blades. Most medium priced wood chisels are hollow ground as well as high end Japanese chisels & food prep/sashimi knives which facilitates ease of sharpening. You just touch the top edge & shoulder when using a flat stone. Makes for a resharpened blade very quickly with minimal steel removed. If you have an axe or hatchet, you have an example of one or both of the last two grinds you showed on paper. That last crazy knife you showed with the two different grinds looked like the tip had a convex grind.
The only knives you should spend good money on are the scandi grind. By far the sharpest and easiest to keep razor sharp. Everything else is a waste of money. All you need is a scandi and a strop with compound, your welcome
The Boss/Menace knives Snody makes have a hollow ground chisel grind, but the secondary bevel is actually on the flat side... confusing to explain, but pretty cool when you see it.
Great Video Sir. Thank you for sharing. If you read this and have the time.... Do bevel grinds come in right and left handed versions?. Does the side of blade with the bevel grind work better in one hand over the other?. My old chisel ground Emerson/ Neely Specwar blade, when carried in my right hand has the flat edge on the outside, to my right. The chisel ground side indexes on the inside, to my left. A left-handed person grips this knife with the beveled side outwards, towards their left while the flat side😅 indexes towards his right. Slicing with my left hand works great, while using my right hand does not slice nearly as well. I am thinking of my wood chisels in carpentry. The bevel side is down towards the wood to control the depth of the cut while the flat side on the wood cuts deep and straight.
Thanks! Traditionally chisel ground blades have flat side facing in for a right handed user. Emerson is the odd ball by doing it opposite which has lead to many questions as to why with no strong answer from emerson other than he thought it looked cooler.
I recall the GREAT dialogue in the 3rd remake of "YOJIMBO", the one after "Fistful of Dollars". "Last Man Standing".Bruce Willis has been stomped half-blind by a dozen goons with Thompson subs, Greener 10 gauge shotguns etc. He crawls off and gets a steak knife which he shows to Bruce Dern
Oh, great video btw. It actually acheived what it's spose to.. I got the exact information I was after. Nothing more, nothing less. Why can't others learn from this guy?? Short and to the point..
Many Scandi knives from other manufacturers like Hultafors and Martinni feature a secondary bevel and so are effectively a saber grind while still being in the Scandinavian tradition. In general the scandi grind is a zero edge 2 bevel design but scandi more refers to the origin and general design of the knife.
If I'm not mistaken many scandi grinds have a zero edge. For example, mora knives have no secondary grind. The scandi grind runs right down to the edge.. Makes for a sharp knife, and a tough edge IMO
Not true. All Mora knives have a secondary edge. True scandi grind should have an angle of 12,5° per side and no secondary edge. The steels on Mora knives will not support such an acute angle on the edge. You need a stronger and harder steel to support such an edge, like Vanadis 4 Extra at 64 Rc or K390 at 64 Rc.
Check out 'DirtyRoom Knives' Del produces a chisel grind with a secondary grind on the reverse on all his new designs and calls it his special 'shisum' grind, nice and sharp too !
Thanks for explaining the 3 grind for me. I always noticed how it's called different from one to another. That was confusing. You explained things right.
Even though it has a micro bevel, It's still a scandi grind. Because the microbevel is much more obtuse, and smaller than the relief edge on a saber grind.
+Mark McCormack Yup! Flat grind with a convex edge makes a good cutter and strong secondary edge. The polishing makes it razor sharp! There's a Japanese guy here on YT that reconfigures all his knife edges (except hollow grinds) just as you have described for the reasons stated.
the tracker knife (as seen on "the hunted") features a complex grind which is used for a fine hollow grind at the bottom and a strong zero ground convex grind for heavy chopping capabilities, i am considering replicating this in my next build, let me know what you think on the specs of the knife.
TheWanskiz 2 year late response, but Katanas through the ages had many different edges depending on who made and managed them. Convex edges are much more common on axes.
Good catch bro! And you raise a good question. Not sure what "exactly" the stipulation is on calling it an officail complex or not. Got the mini cqc-15 in today. Awesome blade bro! Thanks
Number four you'll see more often on tooling like chisels, draw knives and, such. Such being planes and other wood working implements. But some people add micro bevels to those even though it's not needed.
Idk if anyone mentioned that a saber and scandi are not the same, a scandi has just the primary bevel witch goes all the way to the edge there is no secondary bevel as a saber is basically a half flat grind.
A convex chisel works pretty good. I have a cKc Pendant(neck knife) that is a convex chisel ground blade. Decent cutter, but not as good as a normal zero convex/full height convex. The chisel convex is good for some detail cutting like say detail cutting of paper on a cutting board. Just my two cents
thats a good image (besides missing labels) since all the examples start with same spine thickness. Many of these types of images exaggerate so much and use a much thicker spine and/or final angle for convex making it look like its blunt when its not when done right.
Very informative video carter. Great job. You made it easy for people to learn the various grinds without doing much work to learn it lol. About the only chisel grind with a hollow grind on the other side I can think of is a mike snody boss.
Ooops #5, I would call it a saber vex grind, sorry about that, your right, a convex grind bows down towards the bevel, saber vex, has the convex towards the bottom, and with the upper part of the blade being parallel to eachother, I like this grind best for batoning, it splits the wood best, because there's not as much wood drag.
Scandi grind and saber grind are different. Scandi only has 2 bevels, the flat of the blade, and the cutting edge. Moras for example. Saber has the flat, the second bevel and the cutting edge.
If you would like to see an example of a chisel grind with a hollow grind on one side, check out an Iwasaki Japanese straight razor. It's kind of a hybrid grind, but it's the only example I know of that fits close to what you mention. The Iwasaki is an exceptional shaver. The only western razor I have that shaves as good (and perhaps better) is my Philarmonica. Great video btw.
I try using combo hollow one side & 2, 4 or 6 on other, hollow stays as is (unless nicked) and sharpen other side, sharp, quick to sharpen & robust, my chisels (4) are always hollow ground for soft materials e.g. wood/bone carving, double convex (6) for stone carving
#3 is scandi, the knife you showed for it was a sabre, a better (and correct) example for it would actually be a Mora. Also #5 is the sabre, which you showed a perfect example for at #3
That's what I was thinking
Yeah I agree
6:00 - Correct. #3 is most definitely a full Scandi grind (without ANY secondary bevel!). The moment you grind the edge at a different angle it becomes a sabre grind ( depicted in profile #5). Interestingly, neither #1 or #2 when given a secondary bevel (which is invariably) are never referred to as sabre grinds. They are regarded rather as micro-bevels on flat or hollow grind blades. Part of what makes it all confusing. 7:41 - #5 - this is a pure sabre grind with a wide zero grind (like a Scandi grind). A Scandi grind has a primary (and only) bevel, which is a zero grind right down to the cutting edge, while the sabre grind has a flat primary bevel, and a flat secondary bevel which is zero ground right down to the edge. Neither have a micro bevel at all. 8.47 A proper convex grind should not have a secondary microbevel on it, as this changes its signature characteristic. A convex grind is actually a zero grind like a Scandi grind. This is one of the reasons it is so difficult to sharpen, except in the workshop.
@@dennisleighton2812 Saber grind with a secondary convex edge. Hell you could do it with a dry scotch bright pad 😛
A scandi is a saber grind only 3 being without secondary bevel
A Scandi and a sabre grind are not the same thing in any way, and should never be used interchangeably. I've never heard anyone say a Scandi and a sabre were the same thing, or that some called the grind one thing, and others called it another. That just is not correct. A sabre grind has a strong secondary bevel. Sometimes it even has a micro bevel. A Scandi has no secondary bevel, a sabre always does. More, each time you sharpen a Scandi, you have to sharpen the entire bevel. When you sharpen a sabre, you only sharpen the secondary bevel, not the primary. You never touch the primary bevel on a sabre after it's ground, but you sharpen the entire bevel on a Scandi each and every time you sharpen the knife. A Scandi IS a zero grind bevel. A sabre is not. In fact, a sabre grins is what you have labeled as number 5. It always has a primary bevel, which is not sharpened, and a secondary bevel which is. It can also have a micro bevel. The difference between a flat grind and a Scandi grind is the height of the apex. On a flat grind, the apex is the top of the blade. On a Scandi, the apex is part way up the blade, but both are sharpened by placing the entire bevel flat on a stone and sharping the entire bevel each and every time.
James Ritchie knows his shit.
Than you. I was just about to type this.
everything you said was wrong but not but is because yes
@@Binjh76James Ritchie not playing games
🔥 #6 reminds me of how samurai sharpen their blades.🔥
🔥❤️🔥 really great video ❤️🔥🔥
Thanks 🔥
yeah, been watching a ton of knife videos but this is the first time this was actually explained.
"Real" scandi grind knives usually don't have a secondary bevel. Usually the more authentic made in Norway knives are like that, like Helle.
By definition a Scandi grind does NOT have a secondary or microbevel. The minute you grind into that edge it becomes a sabre grind.
Thank you for taking the time. I am a bit wiser now in this regard. God bless
👊
Me too thanks
I agree, I think the hallow grind is my favorite as well
Very nicely explained in non technical language for general awareness. Thanks a lot.
Excellent 101 on the knife grinds/edges.
Useful for many people. Woodworkers, Bushcraft, and even Culinarians.
This was huge to me. I've heard of a few of these grinds but had no clue what they were. Thanks!
A scandi grind doesn't actually have a "secondary grind", the grind actually goes right down to the edge of the blade.
Thanks for your explanation. I'm a butcher so most of my knives are flat grind. My favourite hunting knife is Buck G96 Skinner and now I know what kind of blade it is. Hollow grind. I love that knife and have owned it 20 plus years. I don't use it for skinning, I have Green River, Swibo, EFDick and Dexter Russel's for heavy work. EFDick do not make knives but I have some. Thanks again for the video. Cheers.
#1 hollow, #2 full flat, #3 scandi, #4 chisel, #5 sabre, #6 convex.
Bevel basically means the corner is taken off at an angle. If you imagine it was originally a rectangle shape, the bottom corners are ground off at an angle, deep enough to meet at the centre to make the point of the blade.
All of those, except for sabre don't have a secondary bevel. Most of those knives you showed were sabre from what I could see.
🔥 #4 with a hollow grind. Could be a hollow chisel grind. Maybe.🔥
Good one! Didn't even think of it. Do you know what the three grinds are?
They make all kinds of hollow ground chisel grind blades. Most medium priced wood chisels are hollow ground as well as high end Japanese chisels & food prep/sashimi knives which facilitates ease of sharpening. You just touch the top edge & shoulder when using a flat stone. Makes for a resharpened blade very quickly with minimal steel removed.
If you have an axe or hatchet, you have an example of one or both of the last two grinds you showed on paper. That last crazy knife you showed with the two different grinds looked like the tip had a convex grind.
Thank you! Informative and straight to the point (literally).
😁
The only knives you should spend good money on are the scandi grind. By far the sharpest and easiest to keep razor sharp. Everything else is a waste of money. All you need is a scandi and a strop with compound, your welcome
Spyderco Yojimbo 2 is a hollow grind/chisel example. I love it as an EDC!
👊👊👊
Thanks. I thought about about the convex after I posted this. thanks for clearing that up.
If I had to choose I would go hallow. I just love how well it slices.
A hallow ground? You should never worship your knives, not even if they are hOllow grinds!
Interesting that your example of #4 has the bevel on the left side of the knife (as you hold it) making it a left-handed knife.
Correct. I spotted that also. Very few knives are made like this, except as a custom knife.
The Boss/Menace knives Snody makes have a hollow ground chisel grind, but the secondary bevel is actually on the flat side... confusing to explain, but pretty cool when you see it.
7 years later and still spreading knowledge! Thank you!
9 years later and the knowledge is still inaccurate.
thanks for the info and your time.
Horton does deep hollow chisel ground blades. A sabre grind with a zero grind is a scandi grind. They are very popular for bushcrafting knives.
true scandi has no secondary bevel. very common on knives from scandinavia. HOME OF THE NORSEMAN!!! LOL
I was going to mention this, Jake, but you beat me to it :)
Good video, thanks.
Thank you sir for your explanation of the most common grinds. Fact and interpretation don't always come together but that's what makes it fun.
He was actually not correct though...
Very good video. Thanks for your efforts explaining the different types of edges. This is great information for someone just getting into knives.
It's not. It is incorrect.
Yes sir. The chisel convex had a zero edge with no secondary bevels. Very easy to keep sharp and gets hair whittling with pretty minimal effort.
I love you to man!
Great Video Sir. Thank you for sharing. If you read this and have the time.... Do bevel grinds come in right and left handed versions?. Does the side of blade with the bevel grind work better in one hand over the other?. My old chisel ground Emerson/ Neely Specwar blade, when carried in my right hand has the flat edge on the outside, to my right. The chisel ground side indexes on the inside, to my left. A left-handed person grips this knife with the beveled side outwards, towards their left while the flat side😅 indexes towards his right. Slicing with my left hand works great, while using my right hand does not slice nearly as well. I am thinking of my wood chisels in carpentry. The bevel side is down towards the wood to control the depth of the cut while the flat side on the wood cuts deep and straight.
Thanks! Traditionally chisel ground blades have flat side facing in for a right handed user. Emerson is the odd ball by doing it opposite which has lead to many questions as to why with no strong answer from emerson other than he thought it looked cooler.
I recall the GREAT dialogue in the 3rd remake of "YOJIMBO", the one after "Fistful of Dollars". "Last Man Standing".Bruce Willis has been stomped half-blind by a dozen goons with Thompson subs, Greener 10 gauge shotguns etc. He crawls off and gets a steak knife which he shows to Bruce Dern
Excellent video! That one is going in my favorites for reference.
Oh, great video btw. It actually acheived what it's spose to.. I got the exact information I was after. Nothing more, nothing less. Why can't others learn from this guy?? Short and to the point..
Wow, thanks man
thank you JAKE you have made my day
Many Scandi knives from other manufacturers like Hultafors and Martinni feature a secondary bevel and so are effectively a saber grind while still being in the Scandinavian tradition. In general the scandi grind is a zero edge 2 bevel design but scandi more refers to the origin and general design of the knife.
If I'm not mistaken many scandi grinds have a zero edge. For example, mora knives have no secondary grind. The scandi grind runs right down to the edge.. Makes for a sharp knife, and a tough edge IMO
Not true. All Mora knives have a secondary edge. True scandi grind should have an angle of 12,5° per side and no secondary edge. The steels on Mora knives will not support such an acute angle on the edge. You need a stronger and harder steel to support such an edge, like Vanadis 4 Extra at 64 Rc or K390 at 64 Rc.
Good stuff. Which one do you like the best? If you had only one choice which one would you use and why?
Thanks. Ill update the vid
Thanks!
Very good vid brother. A lot of info for the newer people to the knife world we all need to spread our knowledge good job brother. Thanks.
This is good info Carter! Thank you!
Check out 'DirtyRoom Knives' Del produces a chisel grind with a secondary grind on the reverse on all his new designs and calls it his special 'shisum' grind, nice and sharp too !
Thanks for explaining the 3 grind for me. I always noticed how it's called different from one to another. That was confusing. You explained things right.
👊
your knife 101 videos are awesome
Thank you so much for making this video. It explains a lot.
can you do a video talking about clip point and drop point and things like that?
Even though it has a micro bevel, It's still a scandi grind. Because the microbevel is much more obtuse, and smaller than the relief edge on a saber grind.
Great video !! I'm kinda new to knives and this explained alot I did'nt know.
Good video man it cleared a few things up for me.
Nice Flying J Pen! I frequently fill er up at the FJ. Great gas bar! You live in eastern ontario or do they have flying J's outside of ontario?
I like a knive with a flat grind that terminates with a roll to the edge, polished with buffing compound and a canvas strop.
+Mark McCormack Yup! Flat grind with a convex edge makes a good cutter and strong secondary edge. The polishing makes it razor sharp! There's a Japanese guy here on YT that reconfigures all his knife edges (except hollow grinds) just as you have described for the reasons stated.
On some victorinox Swiss army knives there is a reamer punch and that has a chisel and a hollow grind
the tracker knife (as seen on "the hunted") features a complex grind which is used for a fine hollow grind at the bottom and a strong zero ground convex grind for heavy chopping capabilities, i am considering replicating this in my next build, let me know what you think on the specs of the knife.
Thanks man! I appreciate it
Could you do one on blade shapes?
A full flat grind is where the bevel is the edge. You go straight from the spine to the edge maintaining the same angle.
However, almost ALL hollow grinds end with a microbevel at the cutting edge, as do most flat grinds (eg in kitchen knives.).
#6 the convex edge I believe, is what a Japanese Katana utilizes if I'm not mistaken?
TheWanskiz 2 year late response, but Katanas through the ages had many different edges depending on who made and managed them. Convex edges are much more common on axes.
My bowie has the same edge
Tahnks!
Good info, thank you for the clarity.
Thanks man!
Cool video man! Thanks!
Good catch bro! And you raise a good question. Not sure what "exactly" the stipulation is on calling it an officail complex or not. Got the mini cqc-15 in today. Awesome blade bro! Thanks
Number four you'll see more often on tooling like chisels, draw knives and, such. Such being planes and other wood working implements. But some people add micro bevels to those even though it's not needed.
Thanks, Ill update it
Great video!
Great Video Carter!!!!!
BTW. still have the MSC Cobalt Damascus.
Man! What a darn good/helpful vid!! Thank you very mucho. Your good people. (subscribed)
Idk if anyone mentioned that a saber and scandi are not the same, a scandi has just the primary bevel witch goes all the way to the edge there is no secondary bevel as a saber is basically a half flat grind.
Excellent video sir, really helped, thank you.
A convex chisel works pretty good. I have a cKc Pendant(neck knife) that is a convex chisel ground blade. Decent cutter, but not as good as a normal zero convex/full height convex. The chisel convex is good for some detail cutting like say detail cutting of paper on a cutting board. Just my two cents
The Scandinavian grind is the best cuz it can slice very well but its also built to chop with that nice backbone...
thats a good image (besides missing labels) since all the examples start with same spine thickness. Many of these types of images exaggerate so much and use a much thicker spine and/or final angle for convex making it look like its blunt when its not when done right.
Good stuff Carter!
No.5 is also called a duplex grind a good example of it would be the kabar grass machete
So what would be the sharpest to the type of grind a knife has
A deep hollow grind or flat grind on thin blade stock would be the sliciest
Pretty good video! Thanks for sharing the info.
thanks for the input i just havent seen that type of grind before, was the chisel convex zero edged?
Very informative, thank you.
Great video! A lot of scandinavian bushcraft knives use a "scandi" (aka zero) grind.
which of those types of grinds would be good on tanto pointed combat/utility knife?
Very informative video carter. Great job. You made it easy for people to learn the various grinds without doing much work to learn it lol. About the only chisel grind with a hollow grind on the other side I can think of is a mike snody boss.
About the 6 grinds, if you are only to have one grind, which one to your choice?
What is a zero grind and what is a plain grind?
zero grind is no.secondary bevel
very helpful video I was never 100% sure about all the names
Nope. Number 6.
What
I believe Brous Blades Triple Threat has 3 blade types on the same blade
I just bought a Bark River Cub that has a full convex grind like #6
Ooops #5, I would call it a saber vex grind, sorry about that, your right, a convex grind bows down towards the bevel, saber vex, has the convex towards the bottom, and with the upper part of the blade being parallel to eachother, I like this grind best for batoning, it splits the wood best, because there's not as much wood drag.
Thank you!!
Scandi grind and saber grind are different. Scandi only has 2 bevels, the flat of the blade, and the cutting edge. Moras for example. Saber has the flat, the second bevel and the cutting edge.
If you would like to see an example of a chisel grind with a hollow grind on one side, check out an Iwasaki Japanese straight razor. It's kind of a hybrid grind, but it's the only example I know of that fits close to what you mention. The Iwasaki is an exceptional shaver. The only western razor I have that shaves as good (and perhaps better) is my Philarmonica. Great video btw.
I believe a mora knife would be a good example of a full convex grind.
Mr5cylinders Usually Mora knives are not convex at all. They are scandi grinds.
I try using combo hollow one side & 2, 4 or 6 on other, hollow stays as is (unless nicked) and sharpen other side, sharp, quick to sharpen & robust, my chisels (4) are always hollow ground for soft materials e.g. wood/bone carving, double convex (6) for stone carving
Very informative thanks !!!!
thanks for making the video...What brand of knife was the last one you showed?
traditional kiridashi have a chisel grind with no secondary bevel. good video though for trying to sort out the terminology floating around