I've watched many other videos on different grinds and their uses, yours is by far the best. You really keep it simple and to the point. Another great video.
I’ve known the pros/cons and the shapes of these grinds for a long time but seeing the techniques used to attain them really solidified my understand. Thank you for this video.
Holy cow. Simple, clear, and straight to the point. One of the best presentations of information I’ve seen in a while. Thanks for the info, keep up the great work!
Like others have noted, this is an extremely easy to understand and useful video! It cleared up a few misconceptions I had instantly. Really great to see how the grinds are manufactured: I think that's necessary for the differences to truly click. Many thanks!
I've always been an advocate of the Flat grind. Easy to produce, mentain, & use. Also very versatile. not just that, It's the only blade type you should take on your epic adventures.
Great video as always! Quality never decreases on this channel. So i'd like to express a wish for the next knifemaking video. I'm interested in making a Bowie knife and would like to see your "interpretation" of one. Would be nice to watch.
Great video! There is a lot of conflicting information out there about the specifics of the different grind types. You did an excellent job clearing it up. All of your videos are truly excellent and I am extremely appreciative of all of your efforts!
Finally! I know what grind to put on my straight razor and my kitchen knife! Also, that transition looks and sounds like something out of Home Improvement. Hehehe!
i dont make knifes or even care to make knifes. but man i love watching your videos. i do like knifes and own a few custom. thanks for explaining the grinds.
Thanks for the tips Walter. Could you make a video showing how to do the different grinds by hand and could you include how to make a serrated blade. Thanks.
looks like the best knife edge is subject to great debate. I guess ill have to own both a saber and a scandi and take to the woods and let all the hot air out on a piece of wood. Thanks for all the information. Now I can move forward with confidence
I agree about the flat grind limiting the sharpness. But lately I've been putting the secondary bevel on a really shallow angle, making the cutting edge quite thin and , therefore, sharp. With proper heat treating, I've been able to produce a really good zone between being too thin and not being able to take the beating to being thin enough to get and stay razor sharp through the beating.
Regarding the convex grind, these are fairly easily sharpened by proper application of the 'mousepad-method' - the mousepad is used as a flexible backing for different grades of SiC-paper; a drywall hand sander works even better since it has clips to hold the paper. Once the convex edge is sharp, a strop will give it the final finish and also be useful to maintain the edge for a long time.
Thank you. This was a very good video. I wanted to know what a hollow grind meant. One question. How would you classify the scandi grind like on mora knives?
I would have liked it if he could have compared scandi vs sabre vs full flat. These are the top 3 most common grinds for outdoor knives. I'd like to know the specific advantages and disadvantages to each of those grinds.
With Hollow grind you also keep a thiner edge right after sharpening? Where a flat grind keeps getting thicker a hollow gets thick and then slim again.
I find a flat grind without secondary bevel (where the cutting edge is at the same angle as the flat) is a fairly good balance between hollow and convex but allowing very sharp edges as well. Particularly noticeable in wide blades where the angle of the flat is really steep.
convex grinds can be made on contact wheels/bench grinder by moving the blade up and down as you grind, its way faster than slack belt grinding but tends to give a wavy pattern on the grind line
Good info, however; I would have to disagree on the convex. I find my convex blades and especially those other grind knives with their secondary bevels "converted" to a convex edge the easiest to maintain. No precise angles to worry about. All you need is a somewhat flexible surface and some light abrasive. In a pinch, out in the field, some silty mud from the creek bottom rubbed on your thigh of your jeans and you got an instant strop for that convex edge. Like some of the others have stated, I am also somewhat partial to a Scandi grind as well for out in the bush.
can you make a video about different flat grinds ? If i'm correct there are a few different grinds that can be made and I think they all fal under flat grinds. Like scandi grind, or duble grind ( secondary grind), U grind ( not as shap but lasts longer, good for chopping, usualy on axes) and some more
hay walter im new to the knife making game and i enjoyed your how to make a knife out of a file video and when i get the time im going to try to make one . but i was wondering if you have made a knife out of a hedge clipper Blade before . the Damascus steel blade you make look really cool.
+TaskMaster1983 I think the one little difference, though, is that the scandi grind doesn't have that secondary bevel for the cutting edge. It goes straight on down from the primary bevel to the cutting edge. I'd prefer the technical saber grind to the scandi grind.
Considering I can sharpen my scandi grind (deeper flat grind) in the field with emory cloth pinched between my thumb and forefinger. I'll stick with scandi. The other advantage is you are taking equal amounts of steel off both sides at the same time.... it would be very hard to move the edge off centre. The downside, it isn't as fast as a belt grinder... especially if your knife is a very hard steal.
No, it is not necessary and swords that have full flat ground blades (like many late-14th-early-16th century European swords or the 13th century European sword, the Elmslie type 1 falchion) usually don't have a secondary bevel as it limits the performance. Also many Middle Eastern and Indian swords were made with full flat ground edges without a secondary bevel and most Navy cutlasses around the world and in fact a good portion of sabres also have this kind of edge. And then there are the Scandi grinds for knives, they don't have a secondary bevel either. Hell most knives about 150 years ago that were flat ground didn't have a secondary bevel (when professional polishers were literred through towns like it was the only thing that made money).
+Zavier Tay I would stay away from induction heat....for heat treating, knowing precise temperatures and controlling those temperatures is best done with a heat treating oven.
In my xp, full flat and convex are better at slicing like cardboard and soft stuff, hollow seems to not be as good, but is better for skinning game and cuts well, just not a great slicer. Its why most kitchen knives are not hollow grind. Also, I'm referring to mostly a half hollow grind, one from the spine is on par with flat, maybe more support on spine. Full convex can be sharpened easily with sandpaper and soft pad as well. The nice vid
Yes but kitchen knives are thin over all which makes then good slicers,overall a hollow is the best slicer as the point of contact is at the cutting edge and the spine leaving the hollow part friction free
Outside of the difficulty of maintenance and manufacture, is there any downside to a convex grind compared to a flat grind for all-around knives? It's sturdier and the same or potentially greater sharpness, isn't it?
Demmrir I was just thinking that, but how you would sharpen it is a huge factor. after hardening you can't use that belt at any Kind of practical speed, maybe a rocKing motion on your wet stone, but that would be very precise and time consuming work. any little roots would come out through the thousands of passes you would need to reMove material from that whole edge.
@Walter Sorrells I wonder if you will see this comment , not to mention it is on an older video , but how would you hand sharpen a convex grind after it is dulled , I am not sure about the blade terminology , but usually on a knife there is a parallel part , then one angle and then third the edge , I know to sharpen knives like that , but when it has a convex grind and only that one big edge , I dont get how to sharpen the knife without making that "third" edge ... I hope you get me xD
I find all the grinds useful in some way or another. But I have to admit that I find the hallow and flat grinds most useful. Aside from chopping witch I don’t do with my knives anyway.
I wonder how a knife with two different types of grinds would preform. I want a beefy knife for light wood processing, but also for making feathers sticks and crafting. So I thought about making a know with a convex side for chopping and a scandi grind (which shouldn't be too bad while chopping) but I want to be able to get the correct angle for feather sticking. That's hard with a convex grind.
If I were you, I'd get an axe for wood chopping, and a flat grind for woodworking...The knifes are relatively cheap now a day, maybe you can get two knives to get what you want to do...
i started knife making just two or three months ago, but i always used old metal, because i live in germany and i dont know where to buy knife steel. do you know some german shops where i can buy the better steel???
+Rakadis I recently discovered the scandi when I bought a mora to carve a whole sale order of a few hundred figure 4 traps. easy to keep wicked sharp, and the steel holds an edge fantastically. I love it for woodworking, but I prefer a beefier blade for general purpose.
+dscrive Try the more traditional blades. Most Mora blades are mass produced as disposable work tools. Most are never sharpened. Just discarded. Try the Helle Viking instead for instance. 3.7 mm thick carbon steel blade. With proper care it will last until it is sharpened it in to dust. I have had mine for about 6 years. Perfect knife for the mountainous boreal forest areas in western Norway that I call home.
I find 'proper' chisel grinds easy to sharpen. 'Proper' being the Japanese style: the blade made from a steel strip laminated to iron for easy sharpening of the bevel and a slight hollow grind on the reverse for easy sharpening of the flat side. That way you only have to put the bevel to the stone until you get a burr, then do the flat side to remove the burr, strop and you're in business.
+kaizoebara Exactly what I was thinking when he said that they were more difficult to maintan. They're actually easier to sharpen than trying to maintain a consistant angle along the entire length of the very small secondary bevel on a flat grind, since the bevel itself is the angle you sharpen at. All ya gotta do is just lay it flat on it's bevel, just like a scandi. :) Also, as you mentioned, with the urasuki (wide hollow) grind on the back, there is such little surface area on the back to keep flatten that it goes pretty fast. I was actually a little surprised that he didn't demonstrate, or at least mention the urasuki grind in his last "Japanese damascus marking knife" (kirdashi) video, being that he's known for making traditional japanese blades.
***** Maybe he didn't mention it, because he didn't grind an urasuki. I also find that strange since it is a feature that can be found in almost any Japanese chisel grond blade, e.g. kitchen knives, woodcarving knives and incidentally also in Japanese chisels.
I've watched many other videos on different grinds and their uses, yours is by far the best. You really keep it simple and to the point. Another great video.
I’ve known the pros/cons and the shapes of these grinds for a long time but seeing the techniques used to attain them really solidified my understand. Thank you for this video.
Holy cow. Simple, clear, and straight to the point. One of the best presentations of information I’ve seen in a while. Thanks for the info, keep up the great work!
Like others have noted, this is an extremely easy to understand and useful video! It cleared up a few misconceptions I had instantly. Really great to see how the grinds are manufactured: I think that's necessary for the differences to truly click. Many thanks!
This was a great video, would you do one on different knife tip types also (i.e. drop point, tanto, dagger, bowie, etc.)
Thanks,
Johnf
Thanks for showing us
I've always been an advocate of the Flat grind. Easy to produce, mentain, & use.
Also very versatile. not just that, It's the only blade type you should take on your epic adventures.
Thanks for taking the time to put this video together. Very informative 👍🏻
I prefer a fine convex however a full flat grind with a convex secondary works well too! Thanks for getting this video done.
I appreciate you taking the time to explain the different grinds you mentioned. thanks for sharing,
Great Video! I’ve got a British Army MoD survival knife. I put a Convex edge on it using a strop and progressive grit sandpaper.
Much appreciated, Sir Walter. And I absolutely love how you stage your photos.
Great video as always! Quality never decreases on this channel. So i'd like to express a wish for the next knifemaking video. I'm interested in making a Bowie knife and would like to see your "interpretation" of one. Would be nice to watch.
Great video! There is a lot of conflicting information out there about the specifics of the different grind types. You did an excellent job clearing it up. All of your videos are truly excellent and I am extremely appreciative of all of your efforts!
Finally! I know what grind to put on my straight razor and my kitchen knife!
Also, that transition looks and sounds like something out of Home Improvement. Hehehe!
Another great video Walter. Really clear explanation. Keep it up.
thank you. I can't count the number of times I've researched this video to refresh my memory.
Such a well done video. Awesome explanation and examples, thank you!
Your videos are by far the bests!
Many try to explain this but you make it so funny and aesy.
Thanks for sharing
Great video. Very informative. Not lengthy. Perfect.
great video - I'd love to see a future video on making a scandi grind bush afr knife!
Wow, you are almost at 300,000 subs. I remember finding you 5 years ago when I started making knives
Walter Sorrel, are you on FM radio anywhere? Seriously dude, the world needs to hear your voice. You would be doing us a favour.
i dont make knifes or even care to make knifes. but man i love watching your videos. i do like knifes and own a few custom.
thanks for explaining the grinds.
Thanks for the tips Walter. Could you make a video showing how to do the different grinds by hand and could you include how to make a serrated blade. Thanks.
I love the convex grind :)
Scandi grind is also pretty solid.
+Colson Customs Scandi grind is my favorite one for utilitary knives
It’s a weak grind but very sharp
looks like the best knife edge is subject to great debate. I guess ill have to own both a saber and a scandi and take to the woods and let all the hot air out on a piece of wood. Thanks for all the information. Now I can move forward with confidence
cool video, very helpful as a knife noob I didn't have any idea what the differing grinds were good for :)
Thanks Walter, your videos "cut through" all the bs and just give pure good information.
I agree about the flat grind limiting the sharpness. But lately I've been putting the secondary bevel on a really shallow angle, making the cutting edge quite thin and , therefore, sharp. With proper heat treating, I've been able to produce a really good zone between being too thin and not being able to take the beating to being thin enough to get and stay razor sharp through the beating.
Regarding the convex grind, these are fairly easily sharpened by proper application of the 'mousepad-method' - the mousepad is used as a flexible backing for different grades of SiC-paper; a drywall hand sander works even better since it has clips to hold the paper. Once the convex edge is sharp, a strop will give it the final finish and also be useful to maintain the edge for a long time.
Sharpening a convex grind is pretty easy on a whetstone. That mousepad method is some masochistic but somehow funny phenomenon.
Realy nice video! great learning videi too !! but didnt you forget the scandi gring? cheers keep the nice work!
Thank you. This was a very good video. I wanted to know what a hollow grind meant. One question. How would you classify the scandi grind like on mora knives?
I would have liked it if he could have compared scandi vs sabre vs full flat. These are the top 3 most common grinds for outdoor knives. I'd like to know the specific advantages and disadvantages to each of those grinds.
Great overview of the basic different grind types!
I love your website!
Good solid video . Right to the point and explained well with good examples .
Great vid, Thanks. I just started trying out convex grinds, seem to work well for me.
Awesome videos Walter, I always enjoy your videos. Keep up the great work!
hi thanks for all the info,love knife making,GREAT hobby,you have taugh me a lot thank walter smith
With Hollow grind you also keep a thiner edge right after sharpening? Where a flat grind keeps getting thicker a hollow gets thick and then slim again.
Great videos, Walter! I’m learning a lot from you.
Hey there Walter, can you give us a few ideas, tips and references regarding finishes on wood scales? Penetrating oils, stains, lacquer, etc..? Thanks
I find a flat grind without secondary bevel (where the cutting edge is at the same angle as the flat) is a fairly good balance between hollow and convex but allowing very sharp edges as well. Particularly noticeable in wide blades where the angle of the flat is really steep.
convex grinds can be made on contact wheels/bench grinder by moving the blade up and down as you grind, its way faster than slack belt grinding but tends to give a wavy pattern on the grind line
Good info, however; I would have to disagree on the convex. I find my convex blades and especially those other grind knives with their secondary bevels "converted" to a convex edge the easiest to maintain. No precise angles to worry about. All you need is a somewhat flexible surface and some light abrasive. In a pinch, out in the field, some silty mud from the creek bottom rubbed on your thigh of your jeans and you got an instant strop for that convex edge. Like some of the others have stated, I am also somewhat partial to a Scandi grind as well for out in the bush.
you should do a video on knife points like clip point, drop point, tanto, etc. sorry if you have already done this.
Thanks! Simple, yet very informative. Again, thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Hi Walter I love your work, what type of grind works best for a carving knife?
can you make a video about different flat grinds ? If i'm correct there are a few different grinds that can be made and I think they all fal under flat grinds. Like scandi grind, or duble grind ( secondary grind), U grind ( not as shap but lasts longer, good for chopping, usualy on axes) and some more
Did I miss the Scandi grind?
Amazing video Walter! This helps sooooo much! Thank you!!!
What kinds of sharpening stones do you use? I saw a few interesting ones in this video.
Good video and good explanations... like always... Best regards
Would you make a straight razor for craps and giggles?
Hello can you tell me how to use water stones and which is the best stone to Sharp knife's and swords
Excellent and informative video as always! Domo arigatogozaimashita!
Cleared that up. Thanks.
Awesome video as usual. Thank you for putting in the effort. That fighting style blade with the false edge on spine l@@@@@Ks amazing.
hay walter im new to the knife making game and i enjoyed your how to make a knife out of a file video and when i get the time im going to try to make one . but i was wondering if you have made a knife out of a hedge clipper Blade before . the Damascus steel blade you make look really cool.
Hey Walter, is coconut palm Wood good for a knife handle?
Why wasn't the Scandi mentioned? Such a great grind. ....and so easy to sharpen. .....even a child can do it.
He did mention it. Scandi grind is also known as a Sabre grind.
+TaskMaster1983
ltwrightknives.com/grinds.html
+TaskMaster1983 I think the one little difference, though, is that the scandi grind doesn't have that secondary bevel for the cutting edge. It goes straight on down from the primary bevel to the cutting edge. I'd prefer the technical saber grind to the scandi grind.
+John Grytbakk
Easy to maintain the bevel angle, but it is the most labor intensive and time consuming of all grinds to sharpen.
Bastian ....I don't find that to be the case at all. ...it's so easy and quick.
Thanks for sharing this information.
Considering I can sharpen my scandi grind (deeper flat grind) in the field with emory cloth pinched between my thumb and forefinger. I'll stick with scandi. The other advantage is you are taking equal amounts of steel off both sides at the same time.... it would be very hard to move the edge off centre. The downside, it isn't as fast as a belt grinder... especially if your knife is a very hard steal.
what about the scandi grind there walter?
is it possible to make a knife from normal steel instead of stainless steel?
thanks Walter. I always thought the hollow grind was the only true grind. I'll try some of the others.
yea but flat vs chisel grind why would you use one before another for paper cutting against a ruler should you use chisel?
Awesome video
What are your thoughts on the Scandi Grind? It's the only grind I can sharpen with confidence, I use a flat stone. How does it compare?
Hello, I really love knives and I was wondering, you know the Rambo knife? I was thinking what grind would suit a knife like that, convex or flat.
Rambo knife has a full flat grind
is the secondary bevel necessary in a flat ground knife? if it is i would very much like to know.
No, it is not necessary and swords that have full flat ground blades (like many late-14th-early-16th century European swords or the 13th century European sword, the Elmslie type 1 falchion) usually don't have a secondary bevel as it limits the performance.
Also many Middle Eastern and Indian swords were made with full flat ground edges without a secondary bevel and most Navy cutlasses around the world and in fact a good portion of sabres also have this kind of edge.
And then there are the Scandi grinds for knives, they don't have a secondary bevel either. Hell most knives about 150 years ago that were flat ground didn't have a secondary bevel (when professional polishers were literred through towns like it was the only thing that made money).
Hey Walter I want to know how do you know long your stock will become when forged for like knives, sword, katana, and etc.
Is and induction heater ok for knife making?
+Zavier Tay I would stay away from induction heat....for heat treating, knowing precise temperatures and controlling those temperatures is best done with a heat treating oven.
+1 best movie about this topic with machines examples
In my xp, full flat and convex are better at slicing like cardboard and soft stuff, hollow seems to not be as good, but is better for skinning game and cuts well, just not a great slicer. Its why most kitchen knives are not hollow grind. Also, I'm referring to mostly a half hollow grind, one from the spine is on par with flat, maybe more support on spine. Full convex can be sharpened easily with sandpaper and soft pad as well. The nice vid
Yes but kitchen knives are thin over all which makes then good slicers,overall a hollow is the best slicer as the point of contact is at the cutting edge and the spine leaving the hollow part friction free
Outside of the difficulty of maintenance and manufacture, is there any downside to a convex grind compared to a flat grind for all-around knives? It's sturdier and the same or potentially greater sharpness, isn't it?
Demmrir I was just thinking that, but how you would sharpen it is a huge factor. after hardening you can't use that belt at any Kind of practical speed, maybe a rocKing motion on your wet stone, but that would be very precise and time consuming work. any little roots would come out through the thousands of passes you would need to reMove material from that whole edge.
convex has less sharp end potential than flat grind.
can you make a video on how to make the marble fade or the rainbow stains I've seen on knives?
@@TobiasCat-s7n thank you
@Walter Sorrells I wonder if you will see this comment , not to mention it is on an older video , but how would you hand sharpen a convex grind after it is dulled , I am not sure about the blade terminology , but usually on a knife there is a parallel part , then one angle and then third the edge , I know to sharpen knives like that , but when it has a convex grind and only that one big edge , I dont get how to sharpen the knife without making that "third" edge ... I hope you get me xD
can you please show how to grind a tanto!!! I'm having so much trouble.
what angle would you grind a convex bevel?
The angle is relative to blade thickness and the desired bevel size.
Walter, how often do you make/sell your swords? They're obviously very high quality; I'd imagine it takes a while to sell them
Great information, thank you! That helped me a lot.
can you show us how to use the table grinder because i dont have a belt grinder .☺
I find all the grinds useful in some way or another. But I have to admit that I find the hallow and flat grinds most useful. Aside from chopping witch I don’t do with my knives anyway.
I wonder how a knife with two different types of grinds would preform.
I want a beefy knife for light wood processing, but also for making feathers sticks and crafting. So I thought about making a know with a convex side for chopping and a scandi grind (which shouldn't be too bad while chopping) but I want to be able to get the correct angle for feather sticking. That's hard with a convex grind.
If I were you, I'd get an axe for wood chopping, and a flat grind for woodworking...The knifes are relatively cheap now a day, maybe you can get two knives to get what you want to do...
Thank Mister Walter
full convex or FFG with a slight convex micro bevel is the best for me
Thanks, This is some great information.
i started knife making just two or three months ago, but i always used old metal, because i live in germany and i dont know where to buy knife steel. do you know some german shops where i can buy the better steel???
+Mathis Krämer Old files are generally made of excellent steel but you need to take the hardness out of them before you grind.
Thanks for the tipp i will try my best
+Mathis Krämer www.wolf-borger-messer.de/index-material_08.htm
Love concave grinds.
Scandinavian grind for life.
I used to hate the look of scandi knives. That is, till I tried one. Impressed really.
+Rakadis Til Valhalla!!
Scandi is literally a partial flat without a secondary bevel, in theory it sounds terrible but it works so good! Scandi's are awesome for bushcraft :D
+Rakadis I recently discovered the scandi when I bought a mora to carve a whole sale order of a few hundred figure 4 traps. easy to keep wicked sharp, and the steel holds an edge fantastically. I love it for woodworking, but I prefer a beefier blade for general purpose.
+dscrive Try the more traditional blades. Most Mora blades are mass produced as disposable work tools. Most are never sharpened. Just discarded. Try the Helle Viking instead for instance. 3.7 mm thick carbon steel blade. With proper care it will last until it is sharpened it in to dust. I have had mine for about 6 years. Perfect knife for the mountainous boreal forest areas in western Norway that I call home.
When you are shaping a convex grind into a slack belt don't you run the risk of the blade biting into the belt and being snatched from your hand?
Thanks Walter
I learned a lot. Thanks!
is the scandi grind just a flat grind???
what if i dont get flat grind perfeclty flat but its not nearly convex as one shown here hmm.
Great info!
I find 'proper' chisel grinds easy to sharpen. 'Proper' being the Japanese style: the blade made from a steel strip laminated to iron for easy sharpening of the bevel and a slight hollow grind on the reverse for easy sharpening of the flat side.
That way you only have to put the bevel to the stone until you get a burr, then do the flat side to remove the burr, strop and you're in business.
+kaizoebara Exactly what I was thinking when he said that they were more difficult to maintan. They're actually easier to sharpen than trying to maintain a consistant angle along the entire length of the very small secondary bevel on a flat grind, since the bevel itself is the angle you sharpen at. All ya gotta do is just lay it flat on it's bevel, just like a scandi. :)
Also, as you mentioned, with the urasuki (wide hollow) grind on the back, there is such little surface area on the back to keep flatten that it goes pretty fast. I was actually a little surprised that he didn't demonstrate, or at least mention the urasuki grind in his last "Japanese damascus marking knife" (kirdashi) video, being that he's known for making traditional japanese blades.
*****
Maybe he didn't mention it, because he didn't grind an urasuki.
I also find that strange since it is a feature that can be found in almost any Japanese chisel grond blade, e.g. kitchen knives, woodcarving knives and incidentally also in Japanese chisels.
Very informative! Thank you for sharing!
🥃cheers🍻