What's the deal with minor 2-5-1s? I mean, could they be any worse? I'm still stuffed from that huge bag of major 2-5-1s! Open Studio: the #1 online jazz community openstudiojazz.com
This is GOLD!!!! It is 4 years old as I write this and STILL as fresh and important musically as the day it was made. Gonna spend a lot of time studying this.
Y'all are a breath of fresh air. SO digging these videos. I had a crappy creepy music teacher experience and so have a hard time sitting next to a piano teacher...have been trying to teach myself ever since, asking questions after people's gigs...anyway you two are a great teaching team and both have a fun and articulate way of explaining stuff. Between you two and Rick Beato, I will never run out of entrancing and intriguing concepts to mess around with. I wish you both all the very best. Know that you are doing good in this messed up world! Hurray!
Old greats like Monk, Bud Powell, Barry Harris and my old teacher Sanford Gold never used the term "minor 7 b5" and thought of it as a minor 6 chord with the 6th in the bass. Harris even mentions this in his You Tube videos.
@@clintjones9848 Soundwise, no difference. However theoretically the correct name for the chord is half-diminished 7th or minor 7 b5. Those old school jazz guys were generally not trained in classical music theory and where these chords come from. They saw a minor triad with a 6th in the bass (the minor IV chord) going to the dominant 7 or V7 chord. The interesting thing is how it makes you think when soloing. Modern jazz educators who correctly think of it as a ii7 chord from the harmonic minor scale will say that you can use the Locrian mode with this chord as in D Locrian on a Dm7b5. Old school guys who think of it as an F minor 6 chord naturally think of the F melodic minor scale. Also, in pre-modal jazz days like BeBop you hear the harmonic minor scale used quite often in solos over minor 2-5-1 progressions and the diminished scale over dominant 7th chords. Although it is a whole different discussion, the so-called "altered scale" on dominant 7th chords can also be thought of as the melodic minor a half step above the dominant. (Ex. Ab melodic minor over G7) In answer to you question, it just gives you another way of looking at it and how you think about these progressions that may influence the way you play when improvising.
@@clintjones9848 Yes, open studio is a great resource. Back in the 60s in NYC when I got into jazz there were many great players but very few of them taught. Lennie Tristano in Queens, Sanford Gold and Tony Aless in Manhattan, and I think Roland Hanna took some students. Bill Evans referred people to Sanford who had a great systematic approach but had a waiting list for openings and was not cheap. Now you can find anything on the internet. It's a wonderful thing.
Thank you so much. i have been watching your videos for a long time. The content in this video is priceless. you should invite some Jazz pianists to the show. i would like to see Christian Sands explain some of his solos.
I watched a bunch of your older videos, and they were great, but this newer setup is awesome. The keyboards that you don't have to pass back and forth is much better.
👍👍I love the idea of shifting on the ii chord between the Fm69/D and Ebm69/D before even getting into the G7. Essentially, it's Bb13 to Ab13 to get into G7
My understanding is that Super Locrian is another term for the altered scale. The locrian scale with the natural nine I have always called Locrian Natural Nine (admittedly an awkward name)
that would also be melodic minor 6. same here. came up with so names made by me 😂. but hey they make sense. since you mentioned the altered scale. i call it ionian #1. hahahhaa ❤
In C maj .... you play Dm7 and G7 And on this G7 you can solo over with the Abm #7 the melodic minor scale of on Ab. Thats common bebop. Thats super locrian. G7 notes that are left in place are : g, b, and good ole f.
I love what you guys do, I have questions beyond my understanding but I learned that I've been doing chord progression all wrong, I have been trying to play triad 2-5-1 in f-minor and couldn't figure out why everything sounded meh. Turns out I need to learn extended chords, ugh I feel so far behind in music but this channel has kept me going and persisting regardless, thank you for all you do here it's spectacular.
hang in there man!! whenever you learn some theoretical concept go apply it to the piano and make those hands know these things! its going to be tough at first but I felt just like you, after a lot of practice things come naturally!
Love you guys, so inspiring and great playing! Btw could you guys clarify what chord you're playing each time cos you say flat 9 sharp 13 but I don't know if that's in G or what with all them fancy inversions ;) . Have a great day!
Talk about "Woody and You". Where the resolution is to a major chord. Here is where the 9th sounds the most "correct". But really guys-as George Coleman said to me- There are no wrong notes, only wrong melodies. I have more of these pearls of wisdom, but i will stop here. You guys are GREAT.
Hey guys, right before you ended the podcast, Adam played this tune where he did this Vamp with his left hand. I believe he went from C root to V and I believe up to the octave then the 9th (sorry no perfect pitch here) played on double bass and Peter was like oh yeah! What song is that? I know I've heard it and I know I have it. I just can't wrap my head around it. Ah Nevermind. I think I figured it out. They do that Riff on. That Jay-Z Pharrell tune
hey open studio, an example where the II chord of a minor II V I is not a half-diminished one, is the beginning of 'the shadow of your smile': the natural 5th of the II chord is quoted by the melody.
Please do a short video on scale structures that you use. I am noticing a distinct pattern in your application of the various scales and modes. I'm Cyrus from Kenya🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪
Adam keeps talking like super Locrian and altered scale are different things? To me they are the same is he thinking of the bb7altered scale for super locrian and the normal melodic minor alt for altered chord?
Yes, you are always told to raise your right shoulder when hitting G7 the : bb, ab, g, f, resolves to e ... C maj lick. And you absolutely have to raise an eybrow while looking astonished when someone in your small group plays a tritone sub. And you are asked to grunt and hum along when a player imitates an Oscar Peterson lick. Dont forget to tap your foot on the 2and and the 4and, A) to annoy your fellow musicians, and B) to prove to the world that you have lived and played years of la cumbia salsa diabolica el groovito mexchicana.
02:36 G7: Adam, is Eb supposed to be a #5 ? (1;7;3;#5;1). Adam, when you mention “alteration” it would help if you would use the terms flat or sharp in combination with the number (especially for me as a beginner). Thank you very much for another very informative video! All the best Ray Brown
You are sooo good, you hear everything, don't even need to name it.... I admit it is very intimidating to follow your discussion. Maybe think a little bit about an intermediate listener and spell things out a bit more... Thanks.
Ditto - understood a lot of it, but there were bits rushed over or where the guy in the right misspoke; which doesn’t matter if you know what he meant to say, but as a more intermediate player, it does matter … which cuts down on your audience, guys (just a thought!)
If you’re playing the chord Dm7b5 and you want the listener to be able to hear it as it changes to the 5 chord I try to only play the notes in a Dm7b5 really focusing around the 3rd and the 5 of the chord. I personally am in a place in my playing where I stay away from modes. They atrophy my awareness of what REALLY aging on. They sound too nebulous. The listener gets lost for the sake of playing a mode cause I’m lazy and I know it as a tool and it’s under my fingers…….I’m mean you only have 2 or 4 beats so you might as well make them count!! Lol!!
Adam seems to be the more theoretical, technical one and Peter the intuition based one. Funny to see how he's sometimes confused by Adam's analysis', both killer players tho.
Great show. Thanks for the episode! Some constructive feedback: If you could "noodle" a bit less on your instruments in between explanations that would be great. I know you're having fast working minds but unless its an example of the concept you're explaining I find it too distracting for the ear. I'd also like if you could take more time to summarize the central takeaways of your explanations before moving on to the next subject. E.g. When you move forward from the II chord to the V chord. That'd be a great pedagogical thing for me. :) Thanks alot for your shows! You guys rock (I mean swing)
OK, pretty good but not one of your best. Just trying to be real with you here. Sometimes you’re flashy playing makes it hard to hear the speaker and you lose the pedagogical point also, could’ve used more visuals on the music score
![Применяем 2-5-1 в гармонизации [Теория музыки по-пацански]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uLEOXO220hQ/mqdefault.jpg)
This is GOLD!!!! It is 4 years old as I write this and STILL as fresh and important musically as the day it was made. Gonna spend a lot of time studying this.
Y'all are a breath of fresh air. SO digging these videos. I had a crappy creepy music teacher experience and so have a hard time sitting next to a piano teacher...have been trying to teach myself ever since, asking questions after people's gigs...anyway you two are a great teaching team and both have a fun and articulate way of explaining stuff. Between you two and Rick Beato, I will never run out of entrancing and intriguing concepts to mess around with. I wish you both all the very best. Know that you are doing good in this messed up world! Hurray!
Hope ya made it out in one piece. Try it again after your 18 and you'll be to old so ya probably will be taught some music.
Old greats like Monk, Bud Powell, Barry Harris and my old teacher Sanford Gold never used the term "minor 7 b5" and thought of it as a minor 6 chord with the 6th in the bass. Harris even mentions this in his You Tube videos.
I was thinking the same thing. You cannot have a discussion about a half dim chord without mentioning it being a minor 6th with the 6th in the bass.
What difference does it make?
@@clintjones9848 Soundwise, no difference. However theoretically the correct name for the chord is half-diminished 7th or minor 7 b5. Those old school jazz guys were generally not trained in classical music theory and where these chords come from. They saw a minor triad with a 6th in the bass (the minor IV chord) going to the dominant 7 or V7 chord. The interesting thing is how it makes you think when soloing. Modern jazz educators who correctly think of it as a ii7 chord from the harmonic minor scale will say that you can use the Locrian mode with this chord as in D Locrian on a Dm7b5. Old school guys who think of it as an F minor 6 chord naturally think of the F melodic minor scale. Also, in pre-modal jazz days like BeBop you hear the harmonic minor scale used quite often in solos over minor 2-5-1 progressions and the diminished scale over dominant 7th chords.
Although it is a whole different discussion, the so-called "altered scale" on dominant 7th chords can also be thought of as the melodic minor a half step above the dominant. (Ex. Ab melodic minor over G7)
In answer to you question, it just gives you another way of looking at it and how you think about these progressions that may influence the way you play when improvising.
True. I have also explored those different views. They go over that in the video.
@@clintjones9848 Yes, open studio is a great resource. Back in the 60s in NYC when I got into jazz there were many great players but very few of them taught. Lennie Tristano in Queens, Sanford Gold and Tony Aless in Manhattan, and I think Roland Hanna took some students. Bill Evans referred people to Sanford who had a great systematic approach but had a waiting list for openings and was not cheap. Now you can find anything on the internet. It's a wonderful thing.
I stopped at 17:49 and gettin start feelin anxious about my life, future. Great video thanks for all...
After watching this I realize how much I don’t have any grasp on musically, I need to go practice
Enjoyed that. Just took out my guitar and played along with you guys. Great practice session.
Thank you so much. i have been watching your videos for a long time. The content in this video is priceless. you should invite some Jazz pianists to the show. i would like to see Christian Sands explain some of his solos.
Super food for the bebop soul. Great positivity and motivation from these guys. Keep ‘em comin!
I watched a bunch of your older videos, and they were great, but this newer setup is awesome. The keyboards that you don't have to pass back and forth is much better.
Agreed
👍👍I love the idea of shifting on the ii chord between the Fm69/D and Ebm69/D before even getting into the G7. Essentially, it's Bb13 to Ab13 to get into G7
This is EXACTLY the sound I was after. Great job!
My understanding is that Super Locrian is another term for the altered scale. The locrian scale with the natural nine I have always called Locrian Natural Nine (admittedly an awkward name)
that would also be melodic minor 6.
same here. came up with so names made by me 😂. but hey they make sense.
since you mentioned the altered scale. i call it ionian #1. hahahhaa ❤
In C maj .... you play Dm7 and G7
And on this G7 you can solo over with the Abm #7 the melodic minor scale of on Ab. Thats common bebop. Thats super locrian. G7 notes that are left in place are : g, b, and good ole f.
I love what you guys do, I have questions beyond my understanding but I learned that I've been doing chord progression all wrong, I have been trying to play triad 2-5-1 in f-minor and couldn't figure out why everything sounded meh. Turns out I need to learn extended chords, ugh I feel so far behind in music but this channel has kept me going and persisting regardless, thank you for all you do here it's spectacular.
hang in there man!! whenever you learn some theoretical concept go apply it to the piano and make those hands know these things! its going to be tough at first but I felt just like you, after a lot of practice things come naturally!
Love you guys, so inspiring and great playing! Btw could you guys clarify what chord you're playing each time cos you say flat 9 sharp 13 but I don't know if that's in G or what with all them fancy inversions ;) . Have a great day!
I think they're doing this to a Cminor, so the V7b13#9. So that'll be G7b13#9. Hope this helps!
..so beautiful, after studying quite a bit your lessons it feels like meeting buddies & talk with them.. just me? ;)
Talk about "Woody and You". Where the resolution is to a major chord. Here is where the 9th sounds the most "correct". But really guys-as George Coleman said to me- There are no wrong notes, only wrong melodies. I have more of these pearls of wisdom, but i will stop here. You guys are GREAT.
Hey guys, right before you ended the podcast, Adam played this tune where he did this Vamp with his left hand. I believe he went from C root to V and I believe up to the octave then the 9th (sorry no perfect pitch here) played on double bass and Peter was like oh yeah! What song is that? I know I've heard it and I know I have it. I just can't wrap my head around it.
Ah Nevermind. I think I figured it out. They do that Riff on. That Jay-Z Pharrell tune
I'm running a deprogramming course for experienced jazz musicians on how to play the 'right' notes
Nice - LOVE IT!
Great video! Keep it up!
hey open studio, an example where the II chord of a minor II V I is not a half-diminished one, is the beginning of 'the shadow of your smile': the natural 5th of the II chord is quoted by the melody.
Please do a short video on scale structures that you use. I am noticing a distinct pattern in your application of the various scales and modes.
I'm Cyrus from Kenya🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪
This good info. Fresh!
minor 2 is the maj 7 of the major, playing that makes it major. Atleast to my "trained ear"
GREAT discussion - my head hurts.
The Eb (9th) of the ii leads nicely into the D (5th) of V ..i hear that a lot
Yes❤️
Love the context but just a bit ahead of where I am right now
Great ! ❤
What scales did you study specifically to get that dexterity?
17:54 my favorite interaction between these two.
My goodness, more video effects than a Saul Goodman commercial.
What is the song in the intro?
Greeting from Aalborg Denmark God bless
The thumbnail LOL
You said super locrian when referring to the natural 9th. I think you ment locrian with natural 9. The 6th mode of the melodic minor.
i was wondering about that. superlocarian being the same as the altered scale
i call it locrian9. superlocrian = altered scale
Wow, I didn't get it at all. Back to the basics for me!
dominant upper extension triads
For Galt, the Eflat bebop scale is good.
*Dark very dark very dark*
Adam keeps talking like super Locrian and altered scale are different things? To me they are the same is he thinking of the bb7altered scale for super locrian and the normal melodic minor alt for altered chord?
its not that coz he just started talking about harmonic minor
To me it sounds like a minor 251 could resolve into something else AFTER the 1. Do you guys hear that too or know what I'm talking about?
14:35 isn't the altered-scale the fifths mode of the harmonic minor scale?
At 17:45, 'little G', beautiful magic happens. Do you have a video on this? Where do I have to sign, I would give you my first born...
Sounds like. Blue bossa.. Progression
Do jazz pianists necessarily need to raise the right or left shoulder to play ? . 😅 Sorry to ask .. May cause muscle injury Sorry I need advise
Yes, you are always told to raise your right shoulder when hitting G7 the : bb, ab, g, f, resolves to e ... C maj lick.
And you absolutely have to raise an eybrow while looking astonished when someone in your small group plays a tritone sub. And you are asked to grunt and hum along when a player imitates an Oscar Peterson lick.
Dont forget to tap your foot on the 2and and the 4and, A) to annoy your fellow musicians, and B) to prove to the world that you have lived and played years of la cumbia salsa diabolica el groovito mexchicana.
@@crockmans1386 good point but I am not a pro nor am I looking forward to be acknowledged .. it's just a passion ..thank you for your response.
02:36 G7: Adam, is Eb supposed to be a #5 ? (1;7;3;#5;1). Adam, when you mention “alteration” it would help if you would use the terms flat or sharp in combination with the number (especially for me as a beginner). Thank you very much for another very informative video! All the best Ray Brown
No, it's a flat 13. It cannot be #5 cause it would be a completely different chord.
You are sooo good, you hear everything, don't even need to name it.... I admit it is very intimidating to follow your discussion. Maybe think a little bit about an intermediate listener and spell things out a bit more... Thanks.
Ditto - understood a lot of it, but there were bits rushed over or where the guy in the right misspoke; which doesn’t matter if you know what he meant to say, but as a more intermediate player, it does matter … which cuts down on your audience, guys (just a thought!)
If you’re playing the chord Dm7b5 and you want the listener to be able to hear it as it changes to the 5 chord I try to only play the notes in a Dm7b5 really focusing around the 3rd and the 5 of the chord. I personally am in a place in my playing where I stay away from modes. They atrophy my awareness of what REALLY aging on. They sound too nebulous. The listener gets lost for the sake of playing a mode cause I’m lazy and I know it as a tool and it’s under my fingers…….I’m mean you only have 2 or 4 beats so you might as well make them count!! Lol!!
You vuys are great teachers when you talk to me. You guys lose yourselves in your own genius and me too, whrn you talk to each other.
Vaudeville medusa #stank
It’s so funny how Peter is so killin but sometimes doesn’t really know what to call shit.
Adam seems to be the more theoretical, technical one and Peter the intuition based one. Funny to see how he's sometimes confused by Adam's analysis', both killer players tho.
Adam don't drink from container because of bacterial matter
👍
This is Jerry Seinfeld. I want my super locrian back.
C HARMONIC MINOR? Dm7b5 to G7b9
SLOW DOWN please!
If you're playing a minor ii v i why think of it as d locrian or e flat major and not c minor? All reletives.
Just stick a load of harmonic minors and diminished over it .....its gonna kinda work......I get away with it all the time 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Great show. Thanks for the episode!
Some constructive feedback:
If you could "noodle" a bit less on your instruments in between explanations that would be great. I know you're having fast working minds but unless its an example of the concept you're explaining I find it too distracting for the ear.
I'd also like if you could take more time to summarize the central takeaways of your explanations before moving on to the next subject. E.g.
When you move forward from the II chord to the V chord. That'd be a great pedagogical thing for me. :) Thanks alot for your shows! You guys rock (I mean swing)
OK, pretty good but not one of your best. Just trying to be real with you here. Sometimes you’re flashy playing makes it hard to hear the speaker and you lose the pedagogical point also, could’ve used more visuals on the music score
jAZZ sucks
You guys are so racist and don't even know it. Particularly the older guy. The joking and racial mockery is so typical of unconscious racists
As long as it's unconscious...
What???
That’s you bruh! 😎