16:53 I had to record this in post because the audio cut out originally which is why it sounds so bad. Same with 24:34, but that's because it's a post editing outro. Hope it isn't too bad! Update: I've just noticed the claims for some of the clips used in this video, so I'll be blurring or covering them in post. Apologies for being required to do that, and the first section of the video being quieter than the rest of the video (around the first 5-6 minutes)
Something that’s kinda telling to me from a production standpoint is that season 1 and 2 are the exact same length, 370 minutes, but the episodes are different lengths. So that, mixed with the creators saying stuff was cut a bunch just SCREAMS to me “hey we really wanted to do (x) but Netflix only gave us a set amount of time so we had to compromise” and I just feel bad for the writers honestly
I saw a clip of an interview from one of the arcane writers where she said they cut the writing staff down to 3 people in season 2 because of covid. And 2 of those 3 didn't have any writing credits for season 1, they just had supervising roles. Absolutely baffling if this is true, but it would explain why I disliked the writing decisions so much in season 2.
Netflix was just the distributor. It was their own who stopped them. In other words, it was their decision to rush it because they didn't want to sacrifice anything. Sometimes less is more and it shows here.
@@JohnnyNumber11even then I would say if you find that problematic then season 1 also falls flat as it as well has many cut scenes that where wanted and in parts necessary for the plot (again regarding Timebomb). Sure it wasn’t 3 hours of cut content but still. The problem in my opinion was to give exact data what was cut.
@@Gratefullyeverydayagreed. I absolutely loved both seasons. I can still see the many flaws in the second season but it didn’t take away from my experience and I still got heavily attached to characters.
I mean, is it resolved? The councils blockade got removed so freedom of movement between piltover and Zaun is allowed again but that’s really it. There’s still chembarons running about, scrounging for power. We know Shimmer’s still being produced since Salo managed to get some long after Silco stopped production in season 1. Only real change is that there’s a single Zaunite on the council now, but that’s not exactly much. Some of the damage and strife was undone by the Medarda invasion, but only enough to the point where stuff is presumably back to where it was before episode 6 of season 1.
I watched season two right after season one, and the comparison to its predecessor was night and day. I searched others' opinions to find the conflict was a lack of quantity versus an inability to recognize quality; neither of these points seemed to fit. I then researched the team behind the show and their interviews with the media, only to learn they produced the second season with half the staff and used a near-polar-opposite creative process. That S2 was made for demand over desire, and that shift in philosophy saw them shrinking their team, and looking to other shows for the gap in inspiration. Nit-pick until the cows come home, when the bottom line is that a shift in the conception and contributors happened at the first word, every justification becomes a compromise. Arcane is made better as a result of season two, but the second season did not make a better Arcane.
Do you remember the interviews where they talk about the production of S2? (I.e shrinking the team + shift in philosophy) I went and did my own digging and Ive mostly found online speculation about what went on with the production
Loss of Political focus: oppressed for two centuries, forced them to suffer and work for the upper class who lives in a high castle, never gets hungry, and incredible rich because of the oppressed lower class. Silco wanted independence, probalby he just sat on the top of the food chain, and nothing woudl have changed. However Jinxed blowed up the aggrement. The Chembarons turned against each other, consequently all of them failed, because they only could have been strong enough together. However there were rebellion, and consequently even more suppression. The Pilties invited a foreing force to make the lower class life even more unbearable. And when the Pilties suddenly found themselves against a god like being supported by the Ambessa's Noxian forces, they reached for the lower class. Whom first realistically seemed leaving the city (I mean offering the route out is itself a fantasy), but than turning their back to the freedom, and going back to fight for their oppressors ws the real fantasy. 1789 Paris, the perfect example. I don't really see, how the oppressed working class would fought for the Bourbons. They fought for the Republic, for Napoleon, but not for the Bourbons. They would have fought for Jinx or maybe Ekko. But for Caitlyn, for an enforcer? Don't be ridiculous. And if Jinx or Ekko said to them, we have to fight for the Pilties, they would turnt their bakc to them. Season 1 started as a realistc show with fantasy elements, Season 2 ended up as a fantasy show with some realistic elements. I need deeper explanation than your 2 unconvincing mins Oh, and letting Sevike to sit in the council where 1 represents the working class, 7 the upper class, what chance does she has? If her word could habve veto in every matter, maybe, but I don't think the aristocracy would go that far. She became a useful idiot for the upper class. By the way, noone listened to Sevike when she tried to make a speech by Vander's statue, whom does she represent than? It's a facade. If they'd show how another chembaron takes over the control and everything goes back to the way it was before, it'd have been realistic. The upper class never does anything for the lower class, till the lower class don't rebell and fight for their rights. Just look hwere are we again. Look how the modern capitalist burgoise use the poor to keep them in power
I agree with this, but I also heavily disagree. The Zaunites never fought for just Piltover, they mainly fought for the Zaunite people. They knew that if they did not stop Viktor and Ambessa, they, and possibly everyone, would be stripped of their individualism through Viktor's unity. The point of me bringing up the way they look at Sevika is supposed to show that political unrest in the finale which people didn't seem to understand even though I said it very clearly. You speak of the "2 minutes" I use to talk about this subject but that's because I didn't want to spend so much time covering something that wasn't something I could combat as easily as the other three points. I agree with Silco not doing anything because he became like the Piltovans by taking control of Zaun and oppressing these people. What I don't agree with is the fact that the Zaunites fought for Piltover. You use the example of 1789 Paris and that's exactly what happened here. They didn't fight for the Piltovans, or at least mainly for Piltover, but they clearly fought for Zaun. Sevika failed to rally Zaun without the help of Jinx (in the case of episode 4, Isha, who represents the idea of Jinx), but the finale shows the Zaunite people who left the Piltovan meeting rally against Ambessa and Viktor to fight for the people of Zaun, only fighting for Piltover by proxy. As for Sevika having a say at the table, that doesn't matter because she's at the table. This does a lot for her and Caitlyn's character
@@Eggroll3sperhaps. But it does feel very forced that this "Being that takes away individuality" comes out of nowhere bc that wasn't really viktors arc at first, nor was it even a plot in season 1. I just feel that season 2 Is a completely different show than season 1. Perhaps like a... Fanfic or something? But not a continuation because nothing from season 1 is really solved fully in season 2
@ateneamaurtua I feel like it's very in character for Viktor as explained in my Viktor section. He's experienced external and internal discrimination and malice from when he was a little kid until Jayce shoots him. The moment before his "death", he finally understands the flaw in humanity. This is just a very basic explanation and there's a LOT of depth and complexity for this character
@@Eggroll3s However that shoot made no sense either. Not for me at least. The decisions in Season 1 were more grounded and moved the story forward naturally, in Season 2 I felt opposite. The action felt forced, just to move the sotry in a specific direction, what didn't root naturally in Season 1
Whether people see it bad or not, I believe everyone should have the right to enjoy it or not no matter the complaints. Everyone is different, and should be able to love the parts they do. For me, this season captured how people change very well, and when going through things, have hard conflicts within themselves which change them. As someone who is indecisive, I understood Caitlyn very well as I have struggled with hating/accepting someone in my life.
@@reduxxedr incredible point that I've been trying to say as much as possible. People think the point of this video is to change their minds, but it isn't; it's meant to state my thoughts on this show that means so much to me while telling people who dislike the final few episodes why I think they dislike it and the fact that I understand them. The dislikes are okay, people aren't required to enjoy the same media
There is one problem with this position. Corporations which are in charge of creating content these days look only at the numbers, and therefore the majority dictates the quality of the product. And the problem is that the majority of people are just simply not educated enough and haven't consumed enough content to even understand why a bad show is a bad show. And that creates a situation in which corporations create more bad content, and people consuming it are just becoming dumber and they let even more garbage content slip. At the moment we still have some people opposing the idiocracy of corporations and capitalism in art and media space, but the numbers of these people are running thin. Still, when a dissapointment of the size of Arcane 2 makes it to the world, there are only 2 paths. 1) to eat the trash and say give us more trash, or 2) to actually vote with your opinion and wallet. AND THAT IS WHY THE ONES WHO SEE THE FLAWS OF THIS SHOW ARE ACTUALLY DOING THEIR BEST TO CHANGE AT LEAST FUCKING SOMETHING.
@@vladimirrassushin8422 My issue with this stance is the arrogance of assuming that those who disagree are somehow ruining media. Phrases we keep seeing like, "If you liked S2, you're just coping," are shallow and discourage meaningful discussion by claiming authority over the conversation. There's also a lot of presumptions about people with differing opinions, when objectively the only thing y'all know is that they enjoyed a season of a video game-based cartoon more than you did 🤷♂️ That said, if S2 didn’t work for you, voting with your wallet is fair. But let’s not ignore the corporate vs creative angle. Corpos are responsible for the scope issues-like why S2 only got 9 episodes when most agree it needed at least two seasons. The creative team? That's different. Take Isha, for example: some found her "manipulative" as a narrative device, but her role as an "Influence Character" forcing Jinx to confront her past was an artistic choice, not a corporate mandate. And this landed with some while alienating others. Same with Ekko’s dance. Some found it "janky," while others saw it as a clever way to tie his Chronobreak into the emotional core of the scene. Subjectivity is key. I've noticed League players seem to have caught onto and appreciated this more, while many critics lead with them only knowing the property via the show. Which is fine! Different experiences inform our interpretations, like how music can resonate deeply with one person and leave another indifferent. Also keep in mind, if fortunate enough to get another season or series, creative teams who make mistakes due to tight runtimes or just risky artistic choices? They're the ones who may be most open to feedback before moving forward. Because, the bean counters don't care either way so long as it gets enough views. TV has always had controversial seasons that were still profitable. If that’s the death of art, then art died long ago. Buffy had three (better) seasons after its divisive 4th, and Supernatural somehow went on for eight more after the insipid season 7, and some of those following seasons were improvements. On the money angle: corporate success benefits the creative team. If S2 does well, they’re more likely to get approval for future projects. Similarly, on the games side, I wasn’t a fan of Mageseeker or Bandle Tale, but I didn’t root for them to fail. I’d have rather they succeeded so Riot Forge could fund something more in the vein of Ruined King...instead of getting shut down for being nonprofitable. Yay, a victory against art I sometimes liked but sometimes didn't, I guess? Not everything will land for everyone, but we should aim to support art we want to see more of, rather than celebrate the failure if they dare to put out a product that didn't resonate as deeply with you than other work of theirs.
@@vladimirrassushin8422also...damn...I mean, the season had flaws. But "eating trash vs fighting to save art" is such a dramatic take lol ALSO you already watched it, so voting with your wallet is technically off the table. All we are REALLY doing is padding the wallets of third parties giving us comfort food commentary on youtube lol. Unless you think telling the producers of an already cancelled series that you think their successful show sucked is going to "change at least fucking something"
Having rewatched Season One again before rewatching Season Two, I am now very much in agreement with you. Arcane has always been a character driven story and centered on them and their conflicts. In this case their dualities and how they mirror and conflict with each other. Season Two focused on two key principles/questions, "Can you find the power to forgive and move on?" & “That which inspires us to our greatest good, is also the cause of our greatest evil,” These two things have very big significance after Season One. In Season One the politics of extreme inequality and the conflict therein, while certainly influencing character motivations and serving as an important background for events to play out, the show was never explicitly about this conflict. The inequalities between the cities are a factor in the plot and themes but not the central narrative. The central narrative was about the sisters and their tragic relationship and those of others whose relationships are changed by the changing world of progress. Silco's dreams of an independent Zaun are shown to be built on sand. He died, the revolution died with him. Piltover with Noxian help was able to subdue the undercity with relative ease. I can certainly fault the show for not allowing at least more time to better show this rather than using a quick montage that would certainly go over people's head on first watch. And I would certainly fault them for not doing a better job showing how Sevika and the others went about convincing Zaunites to fight in Piltover against a greater threat to them all. But again this was never the shows focus, especially with time constraints. In regards to the exploration of Vi's subplot, upon rewatch I agree that the show ensured that we did not waste time exploring Vi's descent to the bottom of the bottle and her self-destructive behavior more than it needed to. In regards to Caitlyn and Ambessa (this also applies to Vi and Jinx as well), we see clearly that grief has driven Caitlyn to do terrible things in her efforts to bring Jinx to justice. Things she has come to regret by the end when she breaks from Ambessa. And we see she has the strength to forgive Jinx and let go of her anger. Something that Ambessa cannot do with the Black Rose, it got her son killed and has driven her blindly to her death at the end. And Viktor in his attempt to save humanity from its emotional contradictions, discovers too late in multiple timelines that he only functionally erased humanity entirely and created silence and desolation in his wake. “That which inspires us to our greatest good, is also the cause of our greatest evil,” Silco, Mel, Ambessa, Vi, Jinx, Vander, Heimerdinger, Jayce and Viktor have all done what they did out of love for their cause and those they hold dear. For both good and ill. All in all, I just think slightly longer episodes and maybe one more episodes for Act's II & III would have allowed things to be made more explicitly clearer to viewers. Most astute analysis overall good sir.
But the probelm with aeason 2 IS the focus on plot. Season 1 was so great because the characters journey allows the plot to happen. Season 2 feels hollow because the plot shoves so many character moments that could have happened to the wayside. Also WAY too many things happen offscreen. Ambessa's motivations don't make any sense, pretty much the whole time. She was just a vehicle to delived the climactiv action scene they wanted
@@yungthunder2681 that's what I said in my video. The problem people have with it is the shift from a character focused plot to a plot focused story. As for things happening off screen, I get what you're saying. I feel like they did more than enough, but people wanted more out of stuff like timebomb. Ambessa I don't get why people dislike her. I explain in my video that her motivation is very clear and she will stop at nothing to obtain it, no matter the cost. She's been this way since season 1. I appreciate the response, it's nice to see alternative takes
@@Eggroll3s People have weak "working memory" from between episodes, and between seasons is an even bigger ask. This is why relatively simple character arcs(Ambessa, Heimerdinger) are confusing to the wide audience. So many of them entered Season 2 as if those character's stories began there.
@@Eggroll3s I did not want stuff out of timebomb. I want attention on Vi's trauma and struggles and character development. Instead I got "I am the dirt under your nails" Thanks, season 2 writers 🙂
@@Eggroll3sDo you think it’s a pretty bad plothole how they don’t explain how everyone gets out of Stillwater? Because they show Embessa encounter Warwick but don’t show what happened with that. It doesn’t make sense for warwick not to just kill Embessa. How do all the Jinxers and Jinx get off the island, when Embessa is still there?
I actually preferred the idea of Mel never becoming a wolf, flat out rejecting her mother’s brutality (red) in favour of her true colours, kindness (gold)
I don’t necessarily think Ambessa is the final authority. I think her saying “you are the wolf” is more her giving herself peace by trying to claim her daughter is the way she wants, while fundamentally misunderstanding how and why Mel fought the way she did. Both are strategic and manipulative, but Ambessa has always been the aggressor imposing her will, while Mel always responds defensively, prioritising social strategy. They look the same on the surface, but I think Mel’s rule of Noxis will be quite different in the long run
I think it was a display of the brutality of Ambessa, in that she was able to push Mel over the edge through a roundabout way in the end. No character escapes their trauma fully in this show, as that is impossible in reality. Beauty in the imperfections. Just my take!
Frankly, even though season 2 is flawed, I became way more attached to it than seasson 1, i found arcane way more interesting and menorable after season 2
The main problem I see that people have is that it didn't tell the story they were expecting to tell. Also when you add in the time travel element of Viktor, it eliminates a great deal of the choice and weight of the characters motivating the plot as much as it did in the first season. It however was telling the story they wanted to tell, which was answering the question, "Can you forgive?" Is there anything too far that can't be forgiven? This was the question they were answering. Isha is the revolutionary they thought Jinx would be, Isha are the fans that thought Jinx would lead the war against Piltover, never understanding that she's chaos, only knows how to be chaos. Isha takes the tragedy and makes it heroic, her sacrificing herself is what she thought Jinx would do in that scenario to save the people she loves. It's brilliant writing. But there's just a different story to be told that people wanted. The politics. The unrest. Loved the show.
I have to disagree. The writing for season 2 is rushed while blatantly and conveniently skimming over character and plot development. All while yes subverting expectations but all at the cost of great setup from Season 1. Where Season 1 was about a war between classes and the personal grievances of our characters, season 2 turned into a generic fight over a magical McGuffen. They put to rest years of conflict and animosity between Piltover and Zaun into 5-10 minutes because they simply saw a dead robot. It’s just lazy or rushed writing.
@@maximushenriquez1569 That's where you're wrong. It wasn't a war of the classes story. That wasn't the major theme. It was a story asking one question. Can you forgive? What is the point of no return for which a person cannot be forgiven? That's the entirety of the narrative. It was done on the backdrop of these things, class war, industrialization, magic and politics. But it was never this story. Everything was character driven and thus it was trying to find a character truth. What point is some one too gone? Can Zaun forgive Piltover? Could Silco forgive Vander? Could Jinx forgive Vi? This is the big mistake that people make. This was a story that was in the background, it just weaved with the major narrative. The throughline of this story has been forgiveness. Every character is faced with questions of forgiveness. Ambessa forgives her daughter and recognizes her as strong. Mel forgives her mother. Caitlyn accepts Jinx. Vi forgives Jinx. Vi forgives herself. Vi forgives Caitlyn. Ekko forgives Jinx through Powder, and then through Jinx in person. Zaun Forgives for the moment Piltover for the greater good. In the alternate world Ekko is in, forgiveness alters everything, and it's even blatantly said by Silco, Vi's death triggers new talks between Piltover and Zaun, that creates new talks between Vander and Silco, and creates a paradise. Isha is actually avatar for the story people wanted. And Isha is showing you the viewer what that results in. What truly embracing being the symbol of change means? Isha wanted nothing more in the world than to be Jinx. And all she knew of Jinx, the only thing she knew of her, was being a savior and a revolutionary to the people. That's how she mimicked her. She thought when Jinx painted Piltover it was a revolutionary act and that she was dying by accident and was willing to die for the cause. She didn't know it was an intentional act of self harm. This is why Isha sacrifices herself. She thinks it's what Jinx would do. Jinx was sacrificing herself because she was self destructive. Jinx's actions weren't revolutionary. They were chaos for the sake of chaos. A way for her to say, I can't go back. A way for her to permanently kill Powder. But you can't kill who you are. No matter how much you want to. She tries to make herself hated. But Vi can't stop loving her sister. And Jinx's act of terrorism and violence wasn't an act against Caitlyn but against a system and a people and because it was all she could do because she's a supremely broken person who could only break things. So Caitlyn couldn't keep hating her cause hate takes too much energy. The entire story, from beginning to end, was about Forgiveness and that's what it was trying to tell you. It showed the viewer what they needed to know for the story. And then focused on the pieces that they could tell the story they wanted.
@ I can see how you’d come to that conclusion but it doesn’t change the fact that it was all rushed and poorly executed. Especially with the conflict between Piltover and Zuan. Zuan didn’t choose to forgive Piltover they chose survival and teaming up with them was the optimal choice. But we wouldn’t know if they genuinely did forgive them because it all ended the same episode it started with no elaboration after the fight, just Sivika on the counsel. For all we know she could be plotting to backstab Piltover. Ambessa forgiving Mel for getting her killed because she was “strong” is just shallow and nonsensical. I would say she was proud rather than forgiving. Season 2 overall is just too open for the interpretation of viewers, between the time skips and weak choices of dialogue between characters. I get actions express words but when dealing with a complex show like Arcane they weren’t enough.
@@maximushenriquez1569 The fact that Jinx was even alive and given the chance to escape prison with her +30 body count and terroristic attacks... I can understand the Zaunites, but any self-respective common citizen of Piltover, specially the nobles and enforcers, SPECIALLY CAITLYN, saw her as a crazy terrorist, and realistically would've excecuted on the spot. If anything it didn't show "can you forgive?", it showed "love and lust is blind" with Caitly failing to 1) See Maddy's betrayal out of superficial affection, 2) Betrating her principles, justice and her people to please Vi's heart.
Yep, but no one cares about the art of storytelling anymore. Just give 'em the character they like doing cool thing and that's all you need to do to get unbridled praise.
Season 2 was good but honestly those last two episodes just had me asking “How did we get here?”. If you think about it season 1 was about jinx and vi, the relationship between two sisters with some magic and politics here and there. But season 2 had this dramatic shift, jinx and vi no longer felt like the main focus of the show and it felt like the new main focus was the high tops. One of my biggest issues with season 2 is not seeing viktor more during his transformation. He gets injured, heals, then comes back 5 episodes later being the messiah god sent leader cultist having super powers to heal anyone and anything. I understand how he became like that, I just hate the fact we barely see any of this. Another issue was vander, I felt like introducing him as a reborn monster was just lazy writing to have some sort of plot to make Vi on jinx’s side again. Not only that what was the whole point of jinx’s friend Isha sacrificing herself if he literally comes back an episode later And I’m sorry but you can’t convince me ambessa was interesting or fun to watch after the few episodes later she was introduced. The same can be said about any of the other hightops that weren’t caitlyn, jayce, viktor or heimerdinger. I wished the show just stuck to what it was. A relationship between two sisters with magic and politics. And in season 2 it never felt like there was a true conclusion for them.
I agree I can’t help but feel a real reason season 2 didn’t hit for so many people was because the political aspect of the piltover and Zaun relationship is built up in the beginning of season 2, showing how Piltover due to rebel/terrorist attacks is becoming more and more facist, however the dynamic is basically scrapped in order for piltover + zaun to fight amnesia and victor, entirely changing the expected but more importantly set up conflict we wanted to see, this made the way the story is taken feel one of strange and out of left field in my opinion
@@EyeEatRizzLordsForBrunch The first season was ultimately a tale of two sisters, but politics was the key focus as the struggle between Piltover and Zaun influenced every crevice of every character and decision. I get what you mean when you say it's not the main focus because it ultimately does take a backseat to cover grander ideas. As for Viktor, I can't really argue against that as I thought it was great and the opinion you have is perfectly valid. Vander/Warwick is kind of meant to be that in a sense. The reason why it's actually well made, in my opinion, is the fact that Warwick is designed to be the bridge between Vi and Jinx. Even though they're sisters, they do not fit well together and, after the first act of the show, we never see them together again without a mediator or reason like Vander or Isha. It's a fleeting moment that they want to strip away as fast as it came, and I think that's awesome. Also, just to clear up, Vander didn't come back. He died in the commune as Warwick's remaining blood was used to heal Viktor, with Warwick's lifeless corpse being used like a puppet. The sacrifice wasn't lessened because the message and point was still there, and, even if Warwick didn't die, Isha destroyed enough to allow them to escape to safety. She's the Powder who never was. Honestly, for the rest of your points, I totally understand it. The show differs from season 1 which, even though I love, people can see as extremely jarring. If you want a show focused on relationships and politics, I think you should watch Andor. Season 2 comes out next year I believe and season 1 is a masterpiece. I appreciate the comment a lot though. So many people are saying random negative garbage without giving reason as to why they don't like it, so there's no dialogue to be had. I like discussing things with people which is why I made this video in the first place. I really appreciate your comment, thank you.
@@bananaananab3916 I addressed this in my video by saying that I can't actually counter this criticism because it's not wrong. Even if the political focus has taken a backseat and is still really good in my opinion, it's not the main focus which, for a lot of people, can be so jarring. I totally understand why people don't like this. Thank you for actually stating why you don't enjoy aspects of Arcane instead of just commenting with random negativity
Appreciate the calm and astute observations, keep it up! In regards to pacing, I believe it's a very broad and subjective topic. It can entail a fast rhythm, missing beats to ensure a natural progression, overwhelming information to fully digest and more. Although I had no issues following the story, I was perplexed at the direction it was going. At times it moved too erratically without proper anticipation, as if the writers intended a specific destination without fleshing out the journey to it, making it feel unearned or forced into a preconceived narrative. In my view, it became very apparent with the sister's reunion in ep5, albeit a very critical moment, it wasn't sold very effectively with how little substance they devoted to reach that point. Viktor's arc is difficult to unpack, but for me it boils down to his pursuit of ending all suffering. He realized that no matter how healthy we are, the seed of evil is planted much deeper in the human essence, therefore we'll never vanquish it unless we abandon our very nature. Like you elaborated, this comes at the cost of erasing all individuality and agency to ensure a peaceful, but also stagnant and purposeless outcome. There's much more to this idea, would love to hear your two cents on this. Although implicit storytelling is often praised for its artistic flair, one caveat if executed poorly is widening the range of interpretation and undercompensate. S2 has a mixed reception, those who absolutely love it to those who despise it, while both enjoyed the first season. While mostly caused by shifting the focus from characters to plot, which didn't work for those who specifically liked it for the former, I reckon it's also due to how the abstruse structure led people to spin their own narrative around it to justify their feelings. It's not necessarily a critique to the show, but it highlights how if people want to see the good or bad parts in it, they can. I've seen plenty of postive discourse, yet it's very variegated and I find it hard to assess what the writers truly meant or whether it was the viewer's perception.
I totally understand all of these complaints. My brother (who I mentioned in the video) talks about how Arcane's second season isn't long enough to flesh out certain things without feeling like point A to point B. He also states that implicit stories don't work in situations like this because these are "major story beats that shouldn't be treated like afterthoughts". As for Viktor, there's a lot more regarding his ego and loneliness, like when he says to Sky "I will miss our talks" with her replying "No, you won't." Viktor used her notes to validate his ego, only caring about her death after reading them. It's small things like these that enhance these characters so much and make them seem real, even with their already deep character arcs. Appreciate the comment, thank you for discussing!
As someone who loved Season 1 and was dumbfounded by how much of a 180 Season 2's writing was, I have to at least applaud the title of this video. Every other analysis I've seen leans either on one side or the other, but you openly invite *both* sides to watch your video. Well done, really stuck out to me!
I don’t think that Arcane S2 deserves all of the hate. Yeah it’s definitely flawed and needed more, but it’s still an extremely good show. And after seeing all of the hate towards the writers, I don’t think it’s warranted. That hate should be directed towards Netflix. Why? Because from what I’ve been hearing, bigwigs at Netflix told the creators to shorten the episodes. Like WTF Netflix. The creators wanted to do more, but Netflix just said Nah, it’s too long. Even with its most successful show, Netflix manages to screw it up as per. Like come on !!!!😡😡😡
S1 gets better and more coherent the more you look. S2 gets worse and less coherent the more you look. I was disappointed with S2. But only because it was a disservice to S1. If it existed on its own it would be fine.
That's a good way to put it. Rewatching season 1 was a treat, but rewatching season 2 mostly just made me realize the ways the series was lacking. Not bad, by any means, but still.
@@SirGamalotyep, specifically stakes. How people applaud season 1 for remaining "grounded" after the memorial Ambush is insane. Mel should have died, I actually thought Jayce was going to get hurt and develop his default outfit because would he get badly maimed here. No, just climatically walked down to be last minute saved. That episode was a WHOLE bunch of last minute saves and it was kinda bothersome.
I feel the criticism it could have been two seasons instead of one, covering the exact same story beats overall, should have been addressed. It’s not just me who says this, either; I’m aware it’s not that simple but it’s worth commenting on at least.
I don't think it's big enough to be honest. My main response would be what I've been saying in the comments: more episodes would've been better since more content means we can flesh more things out. This ties back into the idea of bad pacing
I really enjoyed this season. I have some issues with it, but there’s a lot to love too. Those who praise the second season as a masterpiece _and_ those who have far less favorable criticisms and complaints both tend to make solid arguments that I agree with (or at least understand).
You literally explained why it is not a masterpiece, calling Arcane Season 2 a masterpiece is a huge stretch.While the animation and visuals remain top-notch, the season faltered in pacing and narrative execution. It was rushed, leading to underdeveloped storylines and reducing characters to mere plot devices. Complex additions like time travel and the Black Rose muddled the plot, stripping it of the coherence and focus that defined Season 1. The shift toward spectacle came at the expense of emotional depth and character-driven storytelling. Beyond its style, the season simply lacked the substance to live up to its predecessor. The Black Rose and the time travel were interesting concepts executed pretty poorly especially the first one.The season is aesthatically great but bad in its execution because the bad far outweighs the good when you compare to Season 1 and focus beyond aesthetics. Most characters in season 2 were not even characters, just plot devices with a body and some voice lines...if they even have voices.. Literally no consequences to Vi and Caitlyn's risk because Mel provided sudden literal plot armor to the latter and the former's character was assassinated just to prioritize a ship. There was also no logic to the Jinx chase strategy nor to the Kiraman hit squad only consisting of 5 people smh. It's very convenient how the antagonist suddenly becomes Ambessa Medarda whom just gets off'd thanks to Mel's deus ex machina magic without an actual explanation regarding how she passed. How the hell does Ambessa dying to the Wolf complete her character arc when it just results in losing her daughter and her life at her hands, essentially burning bridges with their noxian ties too ? Very convenient that Noxus now becomes the main villain when the responsible of the massacre of season 1's finale is literally a zaunite among the supposed good guys and protected for some reason. There's also no logical reason as to why the enforcers in act 3 don't recognize Jinx despite the fact she has her face plastered everywhere for instance.The fact there's missing episodes is no excuse to what was released, why add so many plotlines when you can't even handle it properly ? For instance Ekko and Vi are supposed to be close yet they don't interact at all nor even adress each other, you just have to believe it because it's explicitly stated lol What the heck was the Loris character's point ? Looking like Vander and just being theres while Vi gets drunk over a girl she barely knows without even seeking a supposed close friend for support ? (That's only a few of the issues there is with the characters, the plot and its execution)
How did I explain why it's not a masterpiece? I addressed common criticism to show why I think the show covers those holes that people think exists, making it, in MY OPINION, a masterpiece. The point of this video is to help people relate if they did or didn't like season 2. It's an avenue for discussion about something very subjective. Saying that I "literally stated why it is not a masterpiece" is factually incorrect by that metric
This may be a rambly hot take and is a little random, but I really dislike how starved for actual "good" content most audience members are nowadays, that they just so carelessly throw out these bold claims and fancy words on the regular now like, "It was a masterpiece" or "So immaculate" for the most bare minimum effort of work. Nothing is perfect and you can like something as much as you want but masterpiece is a really really high bar, almost nothing can reach that in my personal opinion. However what gets me is almost everything that releases at this point is deemed a masterpiece so long as it's not utter garbage or isn't as bad as other stuff we've had these recent years past. Or the excuse, "You start to like it on your third or fourth watch" is especially heinous, because doesn't that mean you're just forcing yourself to like it? I don't get it. You shouldn't have to rewatch something over and over to like it or even get the point the movie/show is trying to make. It makes me kind of sad to see people see the state of things and just kinda coping with it instead of still wanting to recieve the better quality we expect...
@@haleyrose9751 I honestly 100% agree. The people who know me know that I have an EXTREMELY high bar for media because I've indulged in both good media and previously extremely bad media. We have such limited time that I refuse to indulge in boring mediocre slop, and I really despise those who say "masterpiece". There are really only two or maybe even three shows at most that have reached that level for me, and even those have flaws. I don't know if this was directed at me or not, so my statement is pretty general. I think anyone can think anything is a masterpiece, but I've seen people dish out 10/10 and 9/10 to like, almost everything they see and it's extremely annoying. Indulging in slop gives these creators more incentive to make slop, no matter the type of media you're indulging in. Even if people disliked Arcane, they can't deny that it changed the game with revolutionary animation, budget usage, scale, voice acting, etc. On another note about your "third or fourth watch" point: that's why I can't like one piece. The concept is cool, the designs are cool, it's theoretically pretty cool, but it's way too long and people saying "oh yeah wait until you get to episode 200 that's when it kicks off" are insane. Like, 200??? That's longer than all of Hunter x Hunter's 2011 anime adaptation which in of itself is a masterpiece of literacy
Well, you are entitled to your opinion, personally I do call Arcane a masterpiece and don't remember even give that title to any other show, so i dont really use it lightly. I also don't see many people using that word that much, but im also not looking every corner of the internet so i could be wrong.
A lot of misinformation thrown around by people. Since I know my comment will just get nuked if I give any links or drop any names: - No it was never meant to have 5 seasons. - The writer's room imploded after season 1, HENCE season 2 "feels" (is) different. - The messages, the decisions, the execution of season 2 falls onto 3 people only. 1 of them having a meltdown after criticism. I do want to evoke the concept of "Death of the author" in here, since facts might paint a specific objective picture about both pre production, production and results. Yet, people will always see what they want to see, and can easily find ways to spin any work to fit a narrative, a point, a simple thought. That's what art is by the end of the day. But just let me say this, two wrongs won't make a right, and blind love is at the end of the day based on that brittle fact: An illusion. Art has the power to captivate people without even trying, it can resonate with people all the way from the harshest critics to the easiest to please crowds. And from living amongst the different camps that were laid out once Arcane came to be. I know one part managed to win them all. Sources: Reddit, Twitter, UA-cam, Twitch. Again, sorry, but there is evidence out there. Apparently people can't even post it to further discussion. Loves and kisses everyone.
@@NerdyDumbProductions appreciate someone finally saying it! I think if you post links it'll be flagged and show up, so I'll allow them to go through. Not sure if that's how it works though
The thing most ppl hate about this season was it not being politically focused on the class war between Piltover and Zaun since Silco and Vander (but particularly Silco) left a mark on viewers. They wanted that legacy to be the backdrop for the characters for more episodes. But what ppl miss is that the land of Piltover/Zaun exist in a world where other powerful nations exists. Where other elements enter and pretty much trample and dwarf the romantiscism of said class war to me is the realistic element of the show which to viewers felt didn’t hold weight. But it was a pragmatic tool to show that the world that Arcane exists in is bigger than the class war between Zaun and Piltover. Why wouldn't Ambessa, a fabled Noxian warlord, hijack the chaos between Zaun and Piltover for her goals? Historically class tribal/civil wars has always been easy opening for a new regime to exploit and tactically usurp to form a new order. Ambessa's aim was the hijack a military weapon that would threaten the Black Rose in Noxus and form her own regime by becoming the America to Noxus's Russia per se in an military arms race. There's no emotional build up for these elements. Just sheer pragmatism given the nature of the character that has a geo political aim. Same with the Black Rose who suddenly infilitrates with their own clandestine goals and learn that Mel is also a "secret weapon" connected to the arcane. It shows that there's a breathing world beyond Piltover/Zaun's story arc. What Season 1 was built up for is the slow cooked romanticization, whereas Season 2 builds new plot lines on top of what was romanticized with the pragmatism of bigger and grander forces that kind of introduce an "alien invasion" considering how powerful Ambessa, The Black Rose, and the HexCore is juxtaposed to the class war that make the class issue seem small but more endearing in value. I think the show did a brilliant job of juggling what a chaotic civil war environment with many characters that have their own agenda would look like, sync into one, would like. That's a tall order for any writer/writers to accomplish. Not to mention the memorble poetic pieces of dialogue I can go on and on about. So I agree with you that this is should be rated as it own masterpiece 10/10 since it achieved something that wasn't just a continuation of Season 1 in structure and design. P.S This even worked into the idea of the theme of the show "Enemy" since each character clashed with other based on ideology, for the good and bad.
From the opening scene you'd think arcane was primarily about political conflict. Season 2s ending had some of that but it was mostly just pinning all the blame on Ambessa. Like piltover hadnt been oppressing them before she started stoking the flames. "No amount of good deeds can undo our crimes!!" Screams Caitlyn the military dictator who gassed civilians with toxic chemicals 😊 I like how she says "our" here yet she's the one who gets no judicial repercussions for her actions
@@WithoutFear804 it was an ending about unity which does conclude the political plot but some think it's weak. I personally think it's weak ONLY IF Viktor doesn't exist. I get why people don't like them setting aside their differences to fight against a greater enemy. In a solely political show, it'd feel weak, but I think it works here because of the themes of humanity
I thought all of these points were fine. The biggest problem for me was the Black Rose. For someone who doesn't know the lore, nothing is really explained, like why did the woman say "clever girl" and why did Mel destroy her? I understand needing to create new threads for future locations, but not enough time was spent explaining anything, so it ended up feeling like wasted time that could have gone to Jinx, Vi, Viktor, Jayce, or Ekko and been put to much better use.
THANK YOU!! This is perfectly said. My favourite part of this season was jinx and her arc. It was actually so well done. And that’s why I enjoyed it so much. I loved seeing her progress
I’d call it a rushed masterpiece. Too ambitious or too rushed, take your pick (I pick too rushed) but it’s a masterpiece for what they accomplished. I don’t agree that season 2 isn’t rushed - but I do agree that the pacing isn’t actually the problem. It’s just that the pacing is somewhat linked to situations like how Vi lacked that tug and pull you were talking about. That’s my only real gripe with Season 2 though. Rushed, but a masterpiece in spite of that.
I find it hilarious how, yes, the season had str9ng shortcomings compared to S1, but it remains as one of the greatest achievements of animation we'll see in probably the current decade. Like, it's like saying it's hot, but not as hot as the sun. The sun is pretty fucking hot, the fact that a comparison can be made is a statement on itself.
I loved season 2, but admittedly I initially conceded a bit on the Caitlyn complaints, because she does seemingly switch on a dime at the commune, even though I did pick up on her subtle resistance to Ambessa's fascism. I read some people essentially framing it as Cait turning just because she's such a simp for Vi. But, after mulling it over a bit, I think she did oppose Ambessa the whole time, as you said, but got swept up in everything and didn't feel brave enough to really stand up to Ambessa. Then she stumbles across Vi, a person she has framed as inspirational and brave to the Enforcers...Vi provides Cait with both a cause for action and the bravery to take it. She chose that moment to make her move not because she's horny for Vi, but because Vi inspires her to be brave.
The problem is that we aren't shown at any point Caitlyn going against Ambessa right up until she reunites with Vi. She had disagreements with her but never outright opposes her actions in any significant way. Cait even went to Stillwater and saw the carnage Warwick caused. But because Vi told her he was her dad, she still just flips. This isn't "show, don't tell", we're neither shown, nor told.
@@brian0057 she does do this though. We see it through implicit details like her facial expressions and how she reacts to things like in episode 4. I stated all of these in my video with examples (although, some are hard to see because I had to blur it out). This is also reemphasizing in the final act: "she oinked poison in your ear and you just took it" "I know". Also, she doesn't object Ambessa out of fear because Ambessa has the army, but also because she's so hyperfixated on Jinx to the point where she ignores everything else.
@@brian0057 She also flat out DOES oppose her with her actions. The scene when Ambessa recruits Singed comes to mind...Cait showing up there to basically say "I see what you're doing" and then being prepared to shoot him despite knowing Ambessa wants to use him.
@@Eggroll3s I agree that she's hyperfixated with Jinx. It makes sense and it's in character. But I dont agree that she's afraid of Ambessa. When Caitlyn talks back to Salo at the end of Episode 1, the reaction shot of Ambessa told me she was impressed with her. So when she nominated Cait for commander, it made total sense to me. Because she wasn't some pushover like Salo. Ambessa didn't want a simple puppet. She wanted someone strong under her control. Cait doesn't underestimate her, but she never seems to be afraid of her. This is why her going with Vi in episode 6 seems so jarring. Maybe an extra scene of her talking with Maddie about scheming to undermine Ambessa would've made it much better. And it would've reinforced Maddie's betrayal in Act III so much more.
@@kyu2o337 Yes, but that ultimately leads nowhere. Ambessa doesn't even stop her. After Singed tells his story about his daughter and shows them, Singed still goes with them and still trying to hunt Warwick. That's why I say Cait never opposes Ambessa in any significant way. It's not until Vi shows up that she flips.
For me it felt like they built up so much character and world plot only to have them fizzled out in season 2, I like the plot points of season 2 but it feels like a bullet point version of what it could have been. The writing just feels worse compared to season 1. Don’t get me wrong I had fun but the more I took the story in the more I was left with the thought of “that's it?”. I was hoping to get attached to isha in a way she was her own person but we literally don’t know anything about her and her death was just a "welp that's what thought" rather than feeling like it was an inevitable sad outcome. What made me love season 1 are the complex characters that have done shitty things but they are so much their own person, they have goals, they have reason. I went from hating sevika for betraying Vander to being captivated at the fact that she's doing this for Zaun, she followed Silco cuz she believed he was the closest thing to that. As much I think it's interesting that she became a part of the council, specially since her goals are far from it, I would have loved to see journey to that but we don’t. At best we got "everyone got arrested so she's the only option", the plot felt shoved in rather than the character carved it in herself. Season 2 was fun but the only reason I’d rewatch is for the art and maybe rewatch really fun scenes like ep 7 and Sevika with new arm
I think some people are exaggerating a bit. Of course the writing could've been much better and one more season or at least one more act could've fixed a lot of the problems and most of the criticisms are well justified, BUT some people and UA-camrs are acting like S2 was completely TRASH! Like I get your points but S2 was still fantastic. No need to ignore all of the positives and solely focus on negatives. It was a flawed masterpiece. Still a 9/10 show
I suspect arcane season 2 is the type of story that rewards you the more you rewatch and analyze it? But victors heel turn and everyone kinda dripping their conflicts to fight him like flew by really fast?
Some of the story lines dont make any sense at all an felt forced just to continue to plot. There was for example no reason for singed to go to the vander statue where he got captured and eventually joined ambessa and causing Vander very conviniently meeting jinx and vi afterwards, but this was completely out of character for singed. Usually people come to him, but he has never shown any interest for anything outside of his experiments, you cant even say he was just curious to meet jinx. He also coudnt anticipate that he needed Ambessa to recapture Vander , because Vander was completely under his controll before he went there. He didnt know victor was "enlightened" at that point and he could have easily walked there by himself. He was just there out of nowhere when he would have to him more important things to do.
@@ssbbSephi singed went there because it was a rally for Zaun and he knew what was gonna happen after we saw all of the scenes involving protests, riots, and checkpoints. He went there to test his creation and there's no better way to do that than to kill some filthy Piltovans
@@Eggroll3s I dont think so, did he actually say anything about that? He never needed to expose himself in the past to test his experiments, he always kept to himself. He doesnt care about Piltovans or Zaunites, he joins whoever suits him the best to reach his goal. Also even when Vander and his other "creation" were fighting in s1 before Vander died, he didnt have a care in the world and was just sitting in his lab. Someone who kept to himself for his entire life doesnt suddenly leave his comfort zone and take the risk to be killed/captured, unless he would have been realldy desperate ofc. Even if he wanted to test Warwickvander, there are WAY easier and less risky ways for him to do that, not to mention recapturing vanderwick would have been impossible without the help of the noxian armee. He didnt forsee that, he was sitting in his lab on a chair for the entire season. Regardless of his reasons to go there and presenting himself on a silver plate, it was WAY too convinient for the plot to progress.
Honestly, I’ve been seeing a lot of hate criticizing the writing, but I don’t think it’s the writing’s fault. It’s Netflix’s fault. Now before I say anything else, this is just SPECULATION FROM RUMOURS. I’ve been hearing online that Arcane basically told the shorten episodes because they were “too long”. I love Arcane S2, but do feel like it needed more. So hearing this boils my blood. So maybe let’s not hate on Arcane, but the guys at Netflix for cutting down footage.
I somewhat disagree. I think it sucks if Netflix told them to shorten the episodes a d cut some stuff out, but they were offered to do 5 seasons some time after season one. Plus someone on the team said the animation team always overdelivers and adds extra stuff that wasn't in the script. I imagine if you cut out every music video, every slow-mo shot, every non-essential bit of fluff that the writers likely weren't involved in, you could likely cut the runtime of the whole season down by nearly half an episode in exchange for more important scenes. The writers could have easily done more, they CHOSE not to.
Honestly I think quite a large bit of complaints come from people who are kinda hyped up on the internet hate train(not that there aren’t criticisms of course) but there were videos saying it sucks within like a day of it ending which at least to me doesn’t sound like enough time to gather your thoughts properly But I dunno, at least for me, over these past few weeks I’ve really come to appreciate what the show has done amazingly but also understand some issues. Overall I’d still say it’s peak cinema but that’s my thoughts🤷♀️
Well, after watching it and not seeing any reviews about it. (like 5 minutes after the end, after I managed to come down from the high of the ending, and getting to see probably Raum) I had the same feeling that it didn't make sense in the end.
In season 2, Jaycee gets a new jacket. We dont know where it came from. In season 1, vi gets a new jacket and they show where she got it. Clothes r important in arcane and in season 1 they show u where changes came from Caitlyn sucks. Her mom dies and she becomes a dictator. Vi should have told her HER story and told caitlyn to stuff it. Vi never tells caitlyn shes being privileged. We needed more ekko and heimer ): We needed more ekko and jinx We dont get shown why jinx comes back to save vi Warwickshire presence should be more complicated. Especially for vi. The ending???? So zaun is fine with being under piltovers foot now??? Season 1 showed y things r complicated, why they happen, it was so accurate. But season 2 they introduce a new villain and have everyone fight them. Then when that new villain is taken care of, zaun just smiles and goes back to being oppressed??? Theres no RAGE?
I explained why the ending doesn't do that in the video. Jayce doesn't get a new jacket prior to episode 8, his new design is just a ruffled version of his preexisting design which is why you see the same collar, shirt, and untucked coattails. Even so, okay? Vi's scene is a cute little exploration of her character since it's the first time we see her after she's been toughened up in prison for a little under a decade. You say Cait sucks but that literally does nothing because you don't explain anything. Vi does tell Cait that she maybe shouldn't do this with the "promise me you won't change" only for her to get hit with Cait's rifle after being intentionally grazed by her bullet, so clearly that didn't work. Jinx saving Vi, if you're referencing episode 5, is stated in the video as well. Jinx wants Vi to see Vander too so they can unite as a family.
I wouldn't say master piece just because some important characters we pushed back or seemed off. However, I enjoyed this season alot! :) I feel like Netflix only giving them a set amount of time and resources on top of cost made it so difficult.
it's overall a lot to process. I think it's a fraction as good as season 1 which still makes it a masterpiece, but it definitely gets better with every rewatch. for the record I've watched the entire first season in full over 6 times not counting the times I go back to individual episodes. I've only done 1 rewatch of season 2 not counting individual acts and episodes, but that will defnitly change. I'm learning new things with every rewatch, and by watching analyses from others with more runeterra knowledge. that's another thing. season 2 is more reliant on pre-existing runeterra lore with characters such as leblanc, janna, and swain, kinda. but the more the second season encourages me to seek out and learn about runeterra itself, the more I have to appreciate.
The issue I have with it, as someone with a little bit more than passing Runeterra knowledge, but definitely not an expert, is that it baited me in with easter eggs and references. I was so busy going “WOAH! THAT THING!” And not paying attention to the very real flaws. I still enjoyed the season, but it was definitely not nearly as tight as season 1.
Yeah, at the end I was like „Oooh! And what will happen now?!” (because of Raum) And it took me a few minutes to realise that a bunch of stuff didn't make sense. And this wasn't the first time.
I wonder how much of the criticism I see is a vocal minority and natural result of something gaining wider popularity. I've yet to see a nuanced objective criticism...it usually boils down to expectations and entitlement.
A lot of it is valid, but there was one review I saw that was so abhorrent I had to pause midway to take a step back. He said his criticisms weren't nitpicks and people are wrong/stupid or whatever, then proceeds to complain about things like Caitlyn's 5 person strike team being so small and Caitlyn not accurately using a mirror to look at Jinx? Like who cares? It's stuff like that that shows people don't know what they're talking about
There are a lot of weird decisions in season 2, like the two enforcers with barely any dialogue. They seem more like stand-ins that are supposed to symbolise an enforcer rather then actual characters. It's these sort of things that make it really difficult to get invested in season 2 for me, and when you're watching something you aren't invested in, all the smaller issues that are normally easy to overlook, stand out all the more.
@@mitzee8621 I feel you, and I'm sorry you couldn't get in to this season, that sucks. The barely character Enforcers, I assume you mean Loris and fish guy? I think their main purpose was to illustrate the randomness of war at the end, along with the tattoo guy that sends away his family, piano guy, and Gert. Season one had characters like this too, I think fans refer to Licker and Howl. Chuck/Thierem is another one, and honestly Sky has a bigger role post mortem than she did in season one.
I don't think the pacing is the issue. The ammount of information they needed to tell the story simply didn't fit in 9 40-minute long episodes. The montages helped a lot but we missed transitional scenes and the time to take us from point A to point D. B and C were simply skipped and left to our imagination or simply removed. The episodes needed to be longer. I wouldn't change anything to the story. I would simply add scenes, dialogue and character interactions to deliver it better.
You're describing a pacing issue. Story beats are like speed bumps that pace the story down, and the story is missing a lot of them which is what makes it feel rushed
@@chrishaven1489 Bad pacing can be argued about shows that mismanage their available time. Think of the Rings of Power whose pacing was atrocious. The last 4 episodes of House of the Dragon season 2 had bad pacing as well. They wasted time on bullshit and failed to fit the plot of the last two episodes that were cut from the story. Arcane managed to have a story thst needed at least 3 more hours of screentime done in the same timeframe as season 1. It's a studio problem.
I don't think the pacing criticism is about them not hinting/telling the details of the story, but rather for things to "feel" like they have weight. If you show me 3s of a character development it doesn't have as much relevance as seeing that character change. This happens with many things, I kept getting a bit lost of alliances and whatnot of people because they changed every half -season- episode following a look in someone eyes or similar. You can be subtle like that sometimes, but if you do it all the time, you end up losing more and more people. I'm a fanboy of the series, and while I like it a lot, I feel like s2 act3 didn't matter half of what s1 act3 did. And part if it was because so many things were happening at once, that I didn't care for half of them anymore. I have friends that like the series but are not fanboys, and they directly didn't like the season, and I get it, part of me liking it is that I made a great effort to do so because I was very attached to s1. So IMHO they use the credit that they got from s1 and burned it here to shove as many stories as possible in a 20 min show, for some people the credit was enough, but for some other people the credit was not enough. I was actually very happy on act1/2, for me the jumped the shark on act 3, where nothing seemed relevant anymore mostly for the pacing, but I still love the show as a whole. EDIT: season -> episode
@@mikel-zzzz the criticism I stated was about the lack of explicit story beats that could've been there if it was longer. I used the example of Vi because we're supposed to know what she's like without the internal tug-and-pull I wish existed more. It feels like she just goes to Vander after a few scuffles with Jinx because we never see her have the dichotomy. My little thought tree said in his video that he wishes there was something small like Vi disagreeing with Jinx, seeing the mural, then deciding to help her with Vander. Something small like that would emphasize so much more than what is already really well presented in my opinion. I stated in the video as well that I'm admittedly a bit biased because I'm very immersed in the universe, so I quickly grasp aspects of it that require further analysis. That's why I understand if people criticize Arcane for things that should theoretically be very explicit
I am seeing a lot of legitimate criticism, and I can see where people are missing the cohesion of season 1. But for most of the issues I see raised, I feel like I was understanding some things they weren't. Certain criticisms even feel to me like people weren't paying attention enough or just missed implicit context(from body language, visuals, etc) and were just going by dialogue alone and not the meaning or intention behind it. This might not make sense, but I think it was a masterpiece subjectively, but probably 7.5/8/10 objectively. I do feel the scale of season 2 is too grand, and would have liked it to be more grounded, but still thoroughly enjoyed.
I agree with almost everything, but I don't think a show can have an objective score. It goes against the concept of subjectivity because of the way we understand literature
@@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive I can totally understand that. The show is very implicit in nature and I think it requires a lot of analysis for what people think should be basic story elements which creates this idea of a rushed story. I do wish they had more content but it sucks that Netflix gave them a forced time limit
@@Eggroll3s I don't think that describing the show as just having a 'very implicit nature' can be enough of a defence for what ultimately culminates to poor writing and structure on the writers' part in my opinion. And this argument gets a little shaky when you consider that the line between a story being 'implicit' and not actually showing/telling its story can be very thin. Even considering the implications of the scenes you described in your video, that for you, fill in the blanks of these characters' arcs sufficiently enough, there are still gaping holes in the narrative, character developments'/dynamics as well as in the plot - the last of which being something I was willing to look past should the show have stuck the landing with exploring its themes conclusively; which, to me, it didn't. For a plot-driven season, it doesn't do well in needling a comprehensive narrative thread without plot holes, which the harder you look at (specifically those regarding time, the multiverse, Silco and Vander's history etc.), the more the story, its themes and characters wither away. And regardless of what the story is implying, if stakes aren't felt and important character moments given room to breath, the 'weight' of each character beat won't be felt. If you can't convey weight and emotional stakes then how are you going to get your audience to care about anything happening on screen? I am not saying for the writers to hold the audience's hand through it. I am saying that the writers didn't let the audience live the story through their characters' eyes and instead remained so implicit in their story-telling (especially for those that do not follow the game's lore) so as to estrange the audience, leaving them behind on character's decisions and motivations and forcing them to extrapolate on what they think is going on during big and small events. And this is why S1, a character-driven story worked, where S2 didn't. Plot-driven stories are structured around the events that need to occur to progress the story forward, often leaving behind emotional pathos, leading to characters doing and saying things that don't feel earned e.g., Jinx and Ekko joining forces and joining the battle in Piltover against Viktor and Ambessa's army within an instant of the two meeting and Ekko reversing time enough times to prevent Jinx's suicide. Mind you, these two almost killed each other in their previous scene together in Season 1. No further exploration of the conversation that they could have had that would not only make Jinx rethink suicide but encourage her to join the cause is quite a bizarre narrative choice. Another glaring example of poor writing that I cannot get past is the one of Ep. 9 when Jinx is actually shown to not have died, after a sacrificial act of saving Vi's life and instead is shown to have escaped and supposedly left the world of Piltover/Zaun on her own. It is indicated that Caitlin figures this out but not that Vi knows that her sister is still alive. I have seen a lot of people say that it was necessary for Vi to believe that her sister was dead as that was the only means through which she would have let her go. With one of the greatest aspects of Vi's arc being that she needs to learn to let go of loved ones and learn what it means to live for herself, not just for others, without feeling immense guilt/regret and responsibility/blame for what happens to them and neither having to face severe consequences and great loss as a result, it is a cheap way to force her to essentially 'move on' and simply 'let go' of her sister because she physically isn't there anymore i.e., she's dead. Which itself is a lie because of course Jinx isn't dead. Not only is it a very selfish choice on Jinx's part to leave Vi believing that her sister is dead, it avoids either character having to actually confront the struggle of their dynamic and their past together. It feels like a cop out on the writers' part to address this compelling part of her character development. Vi feels stripped of any agency of her own in this matter and Jinx's dishonesty creates greater distance in a sister relationship that I believed had much greater potential for closeness. This great lie that Jinx leaves Vi believing feels like a betrayal of sorts that the writers had such little faith and willingness to show how these two characters could find a means of living as each other's sister or not - a conflict that was what made S1 so compelling and felt half-baked and prematurely 'concluded' by the end of S2.
@@mishan3168 ask what herself? The timestamp you linked is Ambessa being manipulative. She was not affiliated with Ambessa prior to the finale of episode 3
@Eggroll3s i don't like to pretend like it's all Ambessa. Cait was ready for violence too. And yet, thanks to plot device aka isha, it's also was wrapped up
@@mishan3168 no one is saying it's only Ambessa. In the video I state that what Caitlyn's doing is wrong I also despise the use of "plot device". People act like it's a negative. Isha is a "plot device" but so what? She's used in an extremely well made way to further Jinx's character to heights that couldn't be seen without her
@@Eggroll3s i disagree about Isha being used well. When in reality it just did nothing. One damn child could not fix all jinx mental problems. Also creators completely downplayed influence Shimmer makes on brain. THEY just where afraid to turn jinx in the real villain and wrapped up all her development. Because jinx is best girl, face of league of legends. She can't be that brutal terrorist now.
Ce n'est pas "mauvaise foi" ou "justification a outrance". Mon video est mon opinion! (I haven't taken French since basic level highschool stuff). Point is: this video is simply me explaining why I don't agree with the criticisms people make about Arcane, but I can understand why they think that way (because it's a subjective piece of art meant for interpretation). Saying it's "mauvaise foi" is also kind of incorrect in my honest opinion because my script doesn't contradict anything nor does it carry bad faith. This isn't due to peer/social pressure otherwise I would've made a video hating on season 2. I adore the show and wanted to state my personal reasons as to why I don't agree with the general thought process and that's okay.
@Eggroll3s I'm sorry I'm a bit enraged but mostly sad and I shouldnt have said that to you, you seem like a nice person. I've been super dissapointed in this season 2. Season 1 was for me one of the best peace of art I've ever seen seen, I was so proud sand happy that they created this show because I was a fan of league of legenends universe sinds 10 years. but then, there was the season 2 . And the more I think about season 2 the more I'm dissapointed because of the scenario and the convenient plot twist just made for the story to coninue + out of caracter things (exemple, docter revick going to a rally, an enforcer doesnt reconize jinx even if her face was in every streets and every one was searching for her because of the end of season 1 (its the kind of marvel jokes that are just there to make us laught), etc etc...) I recomand you to watch the "Generation offended" videos about arcane to make you're own opinion on what most people dislike and find it bad in season 2 of arcane. I'm not saying that all his argument are are all perfect, in fact some times I do think that some argument are not that good but he finds so much argument to explain why the plot and the character made no sense in season two . The main problem on youtube is that the video that you see is recommanded by you're taste and what you like so people who liked arcane 2 will see you're video, and people who don't will most likely watch "genrartion offended"'s video. and so to make my own opinion I watched all type of video like good vs bad arcanes 2 review and in the comment and the likes you'll always see that people who share the same opinion will comment and see this video so there is no place for a "debat" because almost every one in comment secction are thinking the ssme (arcane 2 was amazing or arcane 2was bad writing) Well Thank you for letting me post this because in some video of people liking arcane 2 my comment where deleted even if I wasnt mean or insulting at all I was just sharing my opinion. I,ll stop here , Bonne journée and if you want to confront you're opinion watch and/or debunk generation offended video's PS :sorry if I made any mistakes in English
Thank you. I was really surprised after watching it and then seeing the online buzz about it. It felt like people just didn't get the show? Nothing felt "out of character" and "rushed" if you paid attention to exactly what was being said or expressed during the character scenes. I feel like people aren't used to tight-knit story pacing nowadays? What I loved about s2 is that it doesn't waste the viewers time and it says a lot with very little. It's honestly MASTERFULLY told, and it feels weird to see so many people completely miss the point or not get it- and be really confused by it when honestly, it's all right there. The weirdest complaints to me is the misinterpretation of Viktor- even by people who are usually really good at picking up hidden details. Everything about his character in Season 2 feels incredibly grounded and guided by everything shown in season 1. People see his transformation as a "corruption by the arcane" and sacrificing his ideas of evolution with unification and all that, but to me its incredibly evident that Viktor is doing what he does not because he's corrupted by the arcane, but enlightened by it. He's making conscious decisions to do what he does- and while he is influenced by others, he can still be reasoned with and turns to reasoning as often as he can. The only reason he listens to Jayce at the end is because Jayce comes back with his findings and reminds him of the things he's taken for granted. If Viktor was truly "corrupted" and lost his sense of self, I don't think he'd ever bother with listening and responding to reason. But Viktor does all of these things because he thinks he's right and he thinks he's doing what's best. That's honestly what made him such a dangerous and compelling opponent, and what makes him and Ambessa very compelling characters- and honestly, the whole cast incredibly compelling.
If masters can make mistakes I suppose it could be considered a master peace. Story trobes, world building and message are indead brilliant. Tho with the mistakes in pacing it doesn't show properly. Also they should have let Vender be dead. Come on, let the guy rest. It didnt at to what he stood for, only made it less
@@pellekuipers6856 I get why people don't like Vander being alive, I didn't like it at first either until a few days after act 2 aired. Someone who likes the show described it to me as "the most flawed 10/10 ever" which I think fits your description perfectly.
I suspected Vander was going to be fused with Singed's creation at the end of season 1, but they definitely made him a hybrid character which was a strange angle. I suppose he would otherwise have just been a random Zaunite baddie that would drive plot development anyway, so not sure how else they could have approached it.
@@Eggroll3sHaha, "the most flawed 10/10"-accurate. Yeah, I think the moment they heard they were getting one more season, they should’ve gone back to the writing room with one question: "What did Season 1 promise?" I wrote an essay about this, hehe. Promises like the polarization of Piltover and Zaun or the relationship between Vi and Jinx, or Victor and Hextech
arcane was originally meant to be 5 seasons and it really shows. s2 just feels so crammed, the story and character developments are nowhere near as maticulous as s1. it just makes me so sad knowing we could have gotten 5 perfect seasons but we got 1 perfect season and 1 pretty good season instead. really makes me think of "what could have been" you know what im sayin?
From my understanding they were given sufficient budget for 5 seasons but they decided to use it all for two. I imagine it was something that they discussed with Fortiche, the animation studio, who has already been on this project for 9 years, at the pace they were on 3 more seasons would be roughly 10 more years, on top of that. It's possible that they didn't wanna commit all that time or couldn't do it or at the quality they wanted with the budget spread that thin over all those seasons.
8:05 Well, even though montages is trying to do work. Whole nature of Montage itself, can't let you feel emotional weight of this events. There's no build up. Things just happening.
The montage was built up since the end of season 1. It is the cultivation of Jinx's actions and the consequence it brought on Zaun. It also acts as a buildup towards Cait's betrayal
Honestly, not liking the musical montages is a you problem. (Not you, the video creator. It's a general "you") Music videos being used for storytelling has been a staple of the music industry for decades. Hell, Michael Jackson has some of the best ever made. I don't like musicals (with exceptions), so I don't watch them. But I'm not gonna call them bad just because I don't like them.
@@brian0057 schnee puts it great when he says that music is the epitome of what wild runes are. People complain that the music is very in the nose, but a lot of tracks carry great deeper meaning like Isha's theme. They're saying what's happening, but with the raw, unadulterated emotion that the music brings. It's pretty cool, and I love the music
I feel the tracks for each scene definitely added to the underlying message/emotion that the scene was trying to portray. They embellish the visuals you are seeing, not replace them. I feel like they did a good job.
I don't like them because 1. The music is shit, and I hate it. 2. (the more important one) They NEEDED to be expended on, but they never were. Like half the montages try to explain things that should have been half an episode by themselves.
I love this show. Season two had extremely high highs and memorable moments. I just feel like if we get the episode 7 Jayce flashbacks early and then Jayce dies or gets written out when he kills Victor in episode 6, we could have much more time for other characters and plots. And then a much more interesting political fight and last battle between Caitlyn and her faction and Ambessa and her faction. More Ambessa stuff. Maybe a bit more morally grey as well. I really didn’t like the big bad army shows up and then Piltover/Zaun stuff is over.
I believe the term "masterpiece" is being overused by fans. It's supposed to be reserved for works of the highest quality. While Arcane's animation and soundtrack are on that level, the writing in Season 2 is not. It's good but not quite on that level. The writers needed to delve into (A) Caitlyn's time as a dictator, (B) Vi's time as a pit-fighter, and (C) What happened between Jinx and Ekko after Ekko saved her. If these developments were properly addressed, S2 would be much closer to being a masterpiece.
I use masterpiece sparingly. Arcane to me is a masterpiece which is my opinion, hence the point of the video. Someone else made a comment about that which I agree with
@Eggroll3s Let's agree to disagree on that. For what it's worth, I believe Season 1 _is_ a masterpiece. I hope we get an "Extended Cut" of Season 2 someday.
I felt I had a lot of questions by the end of the show and some stuff wasn't fully explained. For example I thought the point of the montage at the end of episode 8 is Viktor taking his final form in Warwick's body. But then in the next episode Viktor has his own new body separate from evolved Warwick. Where tf did it come from? And in the finale after Jace and Viktor fall into a black hole or whatever and all of the golden robots souls have been sucked in too, how does evolved Warwick temporary re-animate to attack Vi? And how did Singed have the golden robot version of his daughter living with him at the end when all the golden robots souls got sucked away together? There's a lot of little things like this especially in the 3rd act that still confuse me even though I loved the season overall, and like it more the more I think about and watch videos like this
The golden version of Singed's robot is Orianna. It's not Viktor's creation, but his own, which is why it has distinct features like eyes. The Viktor transformation was him taking Warwick's blood as that was what Singed was testing and why he did that in the first place. He wanted to test Warwick's blood and regenerative abilities to help cure his daughter from her terminal disease. I feel like that was explained pretty well, but that's just me and I can't decide how people interpret it. I appreciate the comment!
@Eggroll3s Yea that makes sense, I got that he created Warwick to hopefully use his regeneration powers on his daughter eventually. But on first viewing I thought Jace fully killed Viktor's physical form when he shot him and Viktor could only exist in that ethereal plane until he got a new body, which is why I thought the point of the montage at the end of episode 8 was Viktor using Warwick's body as his final form. But it makes more sense Singed was using Warwick's regenerative blood to heal Viktor's body with the hole in his chest, and Viktor is evolving Warwick because he wanted to evolve everyone. Still kinda confused on how Singed's daughter is alive, I thought she was fully dead and he was just preserving her deceased body? And did Singed somehow reverse engineer Viktor's golden robot technology to save/ressurect her? I wish some more of this had been shown on screen or at least alluded to with dialogue. That one shot of Singed and his newly reborn daughter just opens a huge box of questions for me, and I wish the show had a few minutes to explain them on screen, especially since there was so much going on this season story and character wise and most of the plotlines were moving pretty fast except for the Black Rose
Finally, someone who gets my point from the other side. The point of this video is to let people know why I PERSONALLY THINK it's amazing and why it stands as one of my favorite pieces of media ever. It's annoying that people like to talk about objectivity when it's a subjective topic
I like that you clearly have put a lot of thought into this video, but the inherent contradiction of feeling the show is flawless or nearly flawless... then admitting the criticism of the show are valid... It's fence sitting. You liked the show a lot, but it's massively flawed. Nothing wrong with admitting it.
@@babaXIII people don't understand the point of my video. I'm not saying that I agree with the criticisms, but I understand why people have criticisms. The ultimate point is that media is subjective so this video explains why I love the show and why I don't think these are flaws. It's all about subjective interpretation and analysis. I'm trying to push forth my own 2 cents on the matter while providing comfort and cushioning for those who disagree with me and want to discuss it in the comment
@@Largentfan80 a 5-7 is such a drastic jump that this statement is meaningless. A 5 means mediocre, a 7 means it's really good. Even so, how? I explained why I liked it and have points to address common criticisms given against the season. It's not meant to convince you
Idk guys, i played a genshin archon story right after finishing arcane season 2 and immediately realized arcane s2 is indeed a great season, all my complaints just gone after witnessing a real messy writing(genshin) 😂
I agree. Everything up till Act 3 was pretty good with me. Bad writing or whatever is like something people can gloss over (it’s the type where you don’t notice it unless someone points it out to you). Act 3 is fine but I see why the creators originally had it to be 1 hour 30 minutes
in my opinion, Act II is the one that drags the season down. Caitlyn flipped so fast in episode 6. All it took was Vi calling her Cupcake once and she betrayed Ambessa on the spot. And Isha was completely unnecessary for Jinx's "redemption arc". Vander's/Warwick's revival and "death" was more than enough emotional attatchment for her to completely break down in Act III.
Isha was the Powder that never was. It was the start of Jinx's redemption through throwing her back to her lowest, only being saved by Ekko. I don't think Cait flipped quickly at all which I explain in the video. So many things point to her betrayal and Ambessa's actions go against the Cait's core principles which she outright tells Ambessa in episode 4 (a clip I also showed in full in my video)
@@reduxxedr I really think there was some corporate shenanigans by Netflix/RIOT that forced writers to cut almost 50% of the intended runtime in the finale and alot of the story was left out. IMO, It still works well enough to put the pieces together, but it definitely feels better to see them than play connect the dots with your imagination.
Season 2 outside of visuals and production values is DOGSHIT. And I mean it. I think people are literally gaslighting themselves because they really wanted it to be good. Either that or they were enchanted by visuals and music for all emotional moments. I had none. Not only they assassinated most characters and plotpoints from season 1, they made me not care about new characters either that are plot-moving placeholders, not characters. I stopped caring at episode 3 already, just wanted to see how this ends.
I love how people can't just respect other opinions and say we gaslit ourselves into liking the show. I'm a known D1 hater; I don't just like things. You also never stated any points as to why you didn't like it; it was just the fact that you didn't. It's kind of annoying how little people want to create actual dialogue by respecting opinions in this comment section.
I personally think Arcane season 2 sucks. VI’s character lost how she drove the plot forward with her headstrong attitude in season 1. All the characters in season 1 felt they had agency. This goes into the character focus thing, and I think that was a critical failure. At the end of the first act, I literally felt myself lose investment in Cait and Vi and Jinx. They moved so fast, in directions I know they wouldn’t have if the plot hasn’t forced them. Obviously the final act is terrible, but act 1 is the most offensive to me, since it felt like a slap in the face to season 1’s finale.
Vi's whole character was one of meaninglessness, which I discuss in the video. The entire point of the montage and her joining Caitlyn's strike team was one of her finding purpose. She doesn't know what she wants, she only knows how to protect others. Think about her character throughout season 1, then question what she actually does for herself. She's never selfish, she always acts on impulse based on what she thinks will benefit everyone else the most. When she loses all of this, she loses purpose. She finds that purpose again through Vander
@@Eggroll3s But again I feel like using Vander as a means for Vi to 'regain her purpose' doesn't actually evolve her character but rather return her to being again stuck only living and caring for others and in this case, it being for the resurrected father whom they have the potential of saving. Vi's arc feels incomplete to me by the end of S2 because besides the purpose of protecting her loved ones and using violence as a means of achieving that, she hasn't gained any purpose for her life outside of that. Instead, the cycle of her giving her all in protecting her loved ones to only lose them again is repeated and she is left to mourn and feel pain. Pain that feels in vain when the only progress Zaun made in their fight against Piltover's oppression was getting a single seat in counsel - one that is shrouded in doubt/scepticism and weariness by all other counsel members. And at some point, it does just feel like, what is the point of her suffering this much pain and losing nearly all of the meaningful relationships in her life? By the end of Act III in S2, i felt an emptiness for Vi, numbed by the countless loss she's forced to deal with and swallow. And why I use the term 'swallow'? Because the show does very little to even show us a glimpse of Vi mourning Vander a second time after Isha blows them all up or mourning Jinx when she believes that she died, sacrificing herself for her sister - it just feels so egregious to not show at least this much of Vi's feeling for her sister and the writers really starved me of much closure on this central part of their story. There's a sense that she is lonelier than ever, despite having Caitlin still by her side - and that goes to show how poorly developed Caitlin and Vi's relationship felt to me. Instead of sufficiently exploring their conflict and having Vi at least be heard out by Cait, we get an unnecessarily lengthy scene of them making love in a jail cell - a scene placed so unnaturally that it is hard for me to perceive it as anything other than cheap fan service in place of what could have been an interesting interaction. The reason I believe it to be so unnatural is because I find it so hard to believe that, after seeing Jinx visibly in despair, hearing her declare a cryptic message that entails that she's made up her mind on doing something potentially harmful as Vi is locked up in a jail cell to prevent her from stopping her sister, that Vi wouldn't immediately rush to find and help Jinx when she's let out by Caitlin. I find it hard to believe that Vi would then say to Caitlin something along the lines of, 'I should have known that she wouldn't help' when the matter isn't that Jinx doesn't want to help and therefore wouldn't, (we've seen her be the 'big fat hero' previously in the season even if she did so reluctantly and Vi has seen Jinx be a caring figure to Isha) but rather that she cannot help because of the severely low mental state she's in. I would think that Vi could at least see that much in Jinx's character and have that much more faith in her especially after her adamance to Caitlin about how Jinx has changed. It then feels very out of character for Vi to not spend any time showing any more concern/worry for Jinx even if she felt that she couldn't immediately help her in that moment but instead to spend a passionate moment with Caitlin - it goes against Vi's core character trait of being somebody who fiercely loves her sister which is a primal instinct that I believe would trigger in anyone who thinks their loved one could be edging something dangerous, even if they're not somebody struggling with their fierce love and protective nature being a double-edged sword. This is part of the reason of why I believe that the show doesn't just have an issue with not having enough time to tell its story but also that it misuses the time it does have, making for far greater disappointment than just some parts feeling rushed or paced incorrectly. And even then, 'not having enough time' is not a good enough excuse for me, as the writers would have roughly known what time they were granted and therefore should have worked smarter to fit in and see through storylines that could be told cohesively in the timeframe they were given.
@ I just disagree she lost it. I think the show just forgot Ekko and Vi had a close friendship. I can’t imagine Vi drowning in Liquor with Loris before she seeks Ekko or Jinx out. I feel her character is simplified to just be a Cait simp so then they can go with the Vanderbilt plot.
@@pphaver871 Exactly, i totally agree with this. While i understand that Caitlin was a crux for her, there were other people in Zaun whom she could have confided in especially with a friend like Ekko. For their friendship to get entirely sidelined in this season and for them to not even share one scene together and at least seek each other out from the events that concluded S1, proves that the writers made lots of short cuts in telling Vi’s story - they were childhood friends that shared in their experiences of trauma growing up in Zaun together. I found it hard to believe that Vi would succumb to alcoholism so deeply as though Caitlin was the only person who mattered to her. Her roots in the under-city and her fighting spirit for Zaun’s freedom from Piltover’s oppression has been a core value of hers from the start of S1 and all of that getting left in the dust in S2 was disappointing and made her becoming an enforcer, devoid of a believable moral struggle that we should have seen and therefore unearned. It gets worse when you consider that for most of her life she was tortured and imprisoned in Stillwater at the hands of topside’s enforcers, an experience you think the writers would at least reference to indicate just how difficult a decision Vi made in becoming an enforcer. But those topics get glazed over and the struggle feels superficial, making her decision to become an enforcer too easy and unrealistic for a character with a resolve like hers.
I mean if you see it's flaws and why a lot of people hate then is it a Masterpiece? for me the word masterpiece is something I'd reserve for something that is so objectively well made that even people who personally don't enjoy it can't say that it isn't. Like Pride and Prejudice is too girly for me but it's still a masterpiece. Arcane season 2 is the opposite there is really no good defence for it's flaws and people like it purely subjectively.
@@moe5020 I never said I see the flaws, that's not what this video is about. I'm stating how I understand why people feel this way, and I cannot (and will not) take that away from them. Nothing can be "objectively well made" because literature is subjective by nature. I have no idea what another show being too "girly" has to do with Arcane, but sure. You're saying that my opinion is subjective, there isn't a good defense for the flaws these people have, and my opinion is purely subjective. Like, yeah, it is. By nature, opinions are subjective. You can acknowledge positives in a work which is what you call "objectively well made" but that's not objective.
Sir, If the writer hadn't killed her, the little girl who couldn't talk, then I would have really loved this season. Now I can't even sleep and want to die every day…
Imo the ending is the worst part of s2, especially when compared with s1. S1 had an amazing ending and S2's feels forced and it's time feels badly managed. Too much action and too little character, the exact opposite of the ending of S1. Also, vi's whole thing at the end with Warwick and jinx is so deeply stupid I can't take it seriously.
Arcane season 2 was easily the biggest letdown in television history.. a season where all the characters have been turned to absolute shit versions of their previous selves (vi,jinx,caitlyn,heimer) or retconned to make them look far worse than before (vander,silco). Heimer was supposed to immediately give a smackdown at the council after the attack but he didnt give a shit, jinx's mental trauma was all thrown to the trash by introducing cute plot device no.2345 (aka isha) , vi turned from a person who hated piltover and wanting to follow vander's dream into a backstabbing/heartless bitch all for the sake of a shit lesbian relationship and Caitlyn turns to hitler for one episode (gassing up the undercity people) and then turns back into normal in the next with no explanation (similar to her flip flop relationship with vi). Even dead characters weren't spared in this disgrace of a season where it is now confirmed that silco and vander were obligated to protect vi and jinx and not because of chance thereby undermining not only their characters but also the incredible journey they took. Yeah this season is terrible and the only people having fun are all the gay teens writing fanfic on tumblr.
@@dfqgoing_on6899 the entirety of my video explains why I feel like a lot of this is wrong, so idk how I can respond to this other than telling you to watch the video Also, that final statement sounds a bit homophobic, so let's not say things like that please
What I've gotten is that people who liked season 2 seem to just operate on the concept of the entire show is quote" show. Don't tell and they use that because it allows them to superimpose their own thoughts, opinions and viewpoints on what's being expressed in this show instead of this show just openly expressing these thoughts and opinions as a result of this people could just superimpose that this is good because my superimposed vision of the story has been confirmed through these visual aids and not been holistically rejected by the story telling me what it explicitly wants to say I mean you tried to say that the fight between Vi and Jinx was just a few "scuffles" Vi set Jinx up so that Catlin could take a kill shot on her. Thats not a scuffle that is attempted murder. Jesus mercy.
The scuffles are referring to episode 5. That is after Vi's montage. This was made very clear in the context of the video and the script, and was further emphasized through my inclusion of another video using this exact same concept. I don't want to be rude to anyone in the comments, but a lot of these responses have been people watching 5 minutes of my video then commenting on everything when it's factually incorrect. I'm not saying you're doing it specifically, but it's very annoying that this is a consistent theme with UA-cam video essay or analyses. The concept that I'm "superimposing" these ideas is wrong because I'm actively looking at what the show has given me and my preexisting knowledge regarding literature and these characters while also tying it to what these characters say and how they act. That's what I did in this video. I said during my conclusion that the show is very implicit and that is a flaw to a lot of people, but I love that because it allows me to get personally involved in this world and look through the eyes of the characters. What you're saying has been addressed in the video but is ultimately wrong because I literally critique the show's usage of this in my video when talking about Vi's lack of internal tug-and-pull and how I wished, even if I was perfectly okay with what we got, there was a bit more to emphasize this.
@@Eggroll3s "The scuffles are referring to episode 5. That is after Vi's montage. This was made very clear in the context of the video and the script, and was further emphasized through my inclusion of another video using this exact same concept. " See that's the issue with your whole video. You hyper focus on one aspect/moment of the show and use it to justify a whole area of the show. Allow me to focus on Vi and the montage argument. Vi leading up to this montage has openly tried to kill her sister with her own hands, Set her sister up to assassinated by her Catlin via sniper shot, Helped Catlin use a biological weapon (Yes using the The Gray on people is a form of biological terrorism fight me on it) on her own people to go hunting for Jinx; again Vi's own sister and then finally got dumped via domestic violence. (Yes Catlin gut checking Vi with the butt of a rifle is domestic violence, again fight me on that.), and finally there's Loris the obvious Vander stand in who's there when Vi has her pit fighting Montage. He is there backing her up supporting her. Hinting at a mentor mentee relationship remaniement of her relationship with Vander Yet that goes nowhere and later one he is just killed. Yet you try to hand wave all of this away when she just bounces back when Jinx mentions Vander. When people mention her montage glosses over things, the things what I listed is what they are talking about. This statement here " The concept that I'm "superimposing" these ideas is wrong because I'm actively looking at what the show has given me and my preexisting knowledge regarding literature and these characters while also tying it to what these characters say and how they act. That's what I did in this video." Is the biggest example of an appeal to credentialism that I'm not going to even touch this Logical fallacy of an argument. How is this " I said during my conclusion that the show is very implicit and that is a flaw to a lot of people, but I love that because it allows me to get personally involved in this world and look through the eyes of the characters." Not the textbook example of superimposing your own thoughts, opinions and viewpoints on what's being expressed in this show instead of this show just openly expressing these thoughts and opinions? Finally I did watch your whole video however it was nothing but unbacked up claims and opinions that i didnt mention it but Ill entertain you for a moment. Your Caitlyn and Ambessa section was almost 12 mins of you openly rejecting what was appearing on the show. You made the claim that Caitlyn didn't order Marshall Law when Both Ambessa and Maddie said she did ordered it and she didn't correct them either one of them when the claim was made. However, because you don't have a moment where you see Caitlin directly ordering the marshall law you have the wherewithal to say at 8:32-8:33 "We never see Catlin actually imposing Marshall Law" Why say this? Did you need to see Catlin out in the streets to know she is the one who implemanted Marshall Law? She is in Charge, the Marshall Law wouldn't happen without her direct say so. That was the whole reason for Ambessa to put Catlin in charge so that if the people were to blame anyone for the Marshall law it would be the person in charge i.e. Catlin.
@darklightimages so, just to confirm, what am I rejecting here? Do you understand what I was saying about Vi's character? She had no way of getting to her goal without hurting anyone close to her, so she chose the easiest route: Caitlyn's Strike Team. She's complicit and lacks identity as everything she does is for someone that isn't herself. She has no purpose or identity which is the point of the montage. No one is denying that she tried to kill Jinx, but she couldn't and stopped Caitlyn because she saw Powder in Isha and would also prefer to not kill an innocent child. This isn't me hyperfixating on one @darklightimages so, just to confirm, what am I rejecting here? Do you understand what I was saying about Vi's character? She had no way of getting to her goal without hurting anyone close to her, so she chose the easiest route: Caitlyn's Strike Team. She's complicit and lacks identity as everything she does is for someone that isn't herself. She has no purpose or identity which is the point of the montage. No one is denying that she tried to kill Jinx, but she couldn't and stopped Caitlyn because she saw Powder in Isha and would also prefer to not kill an innocent child. I didn't hyperfixate on anything, I stated the entirety of Vi's internal struggle using examples from previous episodes to explain why what happened makes sense. The irony of you mentioning how I'm fixating on one point only for you to fixate on one irrelevant point where I quite literally agree with your statement as a conclusion/opinion to a greater point is pretty weird if I'm being completely honest. Second, how is what I said an appeal to credentials? I don't think you understand that statement because I'm not discrediting you, nor am I stating anything equivalent to that or something along the lines of "well if they said it, it must be true!" I'm using preexisting knowledge that I have over years of analysis to deconstruct what I PERSONALLY think is good about the show, but I understand if people don't like certain aspects of the show. That's not superimposing, that's not appealing to any credentials, that's called an opinion. Literature is inherently subjective and the point of this video is to explain why I enjoy it even if I understand why people are criticizing it. Not everything is for everyone, not everyone will like everything. I don't understand how that message was hard to grasp for so many people in the comment section. Literature is created to be analyzed and interpreted. You saying that people "superimposing" their thoughts and ideas is a bad thing is the reason why people struggle with interpretation and meaning. Something so small can mean many different things to many different people, so I was explaining MY interpretation of the show. That's not something unique to me. Unbacked claims? I showed footage explaining everything done before Caitlyn's switch up to prove why I was saying what I was saying. Even if I entertain your idea that she did impose all of those martial laws and didn't oppose Ambessa at all (when the clip I showed is her opposing Ambessa), how does that take away from my point? The point isn't "she's good guys!" The point is "hey, this is actually very in line for her to do, here's why" with a lot of evidence to earlier episodes and even the previous season. It's really baffling how confident you are with wanting to make me look stupid only to hyperfixate on interpretations that are, frankly, just used as a bit of extra support to my claims unlike my usage of actual scenes that we see in the show where people say exactly what I'm saying. Also, I don't know what the "fight me on it" stuff is about but it's kinda odd lmao. All I'll say is that, no, it's not domestic violence. She's not beating her, she hits her with the edge of her rifle in the liver to prevent Vi from stopping her. Your statement feels kind of disingenuous and frankly offensive to actual domestic abuse victims if I'm being honest. It's completely unneeded as an addition to support your argument as well
After rewatching season 1, I finally realized that the consistent story issues of S1 should have been a red flag I liked the video because I respect having an opinion. Here's mine: S1 8/10 S2 8/10 to 3/10
The addition of Ambessa late in Season 1 killed the vibes of the show. Season 1 is just as flawed as Season 2. They did a 3 act structure... The 3rd act (if they follow the rules of classic storytelling) should just focus on resolution. They should NOT have added a new character in the resolution part of the story. And in season 2 they have to deal with it. Additionally minor characters in Season 1 were given major character arcs. It was so convuloted! Minor characters should stay as minor characters. They bit off more than they can chew. Season 1 flaws are greatly overlooked because it was a fresh story.
@@CzarsSalad never heard anyone criticize season 1 before to be honest; very unique outlook. The show was very clearly meant to be 2 seasons, so Ambessa's addition doesn't remove anything from the preexisting episodes, but further adds upon them and the characterization of Mel/the other Piltovans. It adds tension and provides backstory as to why Mel is how she is and why she's in Piltover. It also shows how she gets her manipulative side which I think is an amazing touch. Ambessa takes existing characters to heights they could not reach writing wise, and she herself is very well written
@@Eggroll3sthey did a 3 act structure of Season 1. The 3rd act was supposed to be used to RESOLVE the story. It's a fundamental rule in storytelling that you don't introduce a new character in the 3rd act.
@@CzarsSalad okay, this was impossible to address because your comment was completely different before you edited it and had way less information. You can introduce characters in an act 3 setting if they're important to the 2nd season, which she was. When people say act 3, they don't mean a typical act 3. Season 1 is halfway through the story, not a conclusion. Saying that they added a new character during the resolution is objectively incorrect. On top of this, which minor characters got big arcs exactly? Edit: just wanted to add something to emphasize my point: do you think making the conflict even worse was the resolution? Jinx blew up the council before the story's resolution could've been made
@@Eggroll3sbut the thing is, they presented season 1 as a 3 act structure. They should've treated it as is. When I first saw it I was so confused as to how the hell Ambessa would fit into the whole structure. They should have added at least 6 more episodes in Season 1... Make it a 5 act story. Much like how The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo was told. Had they focused only on at least 1 or 2 main characters, Jinx/Vi or Cait season 1 would have been better. They have so MAIN characters introduced in the 1st season and yet they only planned for 2 seasons. 5 Seasons wont even be enough. Breaking Bad (imo The greatest show ever) took 5 1/2 seasons to complete Walt's arc. One main character.
@@nickl9461 I think it's disingenuous to say that you understand why I like it, then say I'm wrong. I'm open for discussion, but I don't think it's right to talk in an objective way about subjective material
@CzarsSalad if they didn't like a tv show, that's fine, no need to use slurs. They can explain why or not, I don't really care. It's up to the other party to reciprocate dialogue
@@ergovoks5200 how is it copium? I wrote an entire script explaining why I thought this way and stated in the video itself that I understood why people had gripes with the show. The whole point of the video is me explaining why I, specifically, love the season, addressing common criticisms to do that. I'm not trying to convince anyone that they're dumb for thinking differently, but relating to them by telling them that I understand why they think this season was a letdown even if I did not
I feel the explanations made sense. I'm interested if you saw the context provided pointed another direction(maybe nowhere) or just didn't care to see it.
@@myplace4play how is it cope if I made an entire video explaining why I think it's good while saying that I understand people who don't like it? That sounds like a constructed point, not cope
@CzarsSalad let's not use ableist slurs in my comment section please. People can talk however they'd like, as bad as it is. I'll handle their discussions if they get too negative or inappropriate, but please keep any foul language to a minimum
@@Eggroll3s You didn't adress major problems like character assasination (the only character who survived writers' incopmpitance was Marcus, and only because he's as dead as possible, death didn't save Silco of this fate though)
I think a lot of the chaos of season 2 can be explained as a result of the corrupting force of the arcane on the world. The arcane is supposed to corrupt and accelerate everything towards chaos, war, and destruction, so all the intimate character focus of season 1 is supposed to be destroyed and replaced with insanity. All the characters are in some sense corrupted, hence why they make such strange decisions seemingly on a whim. This doesn't excuse everything about season 2, but it explains a lot of its chaotic elements. People miss the intimacy of season 1 and its pacing, but season 1 also foreshadowed that the Arcane would "lay waste to civilizations." In terrible times, people aren't allowed to just be themselves. They are forced to react to the circumstance and become something they wouldn't otherwise be. I still think the whole "there is beauty in imperfections" quote is terrible.
16:53 I had to record this in post because the audio cut out originally which is why it sounds so bad. Same with 24:34, but that's because it's a post editing outro. Hope it isn't too bad!
Update: I've just noticed the claims for some of the clips used in this video, so I'll be blurring or covering them in post. Apologies for being required to do that, and the first section of the video being quieter than the rest of the video (around the first 5-6 minutes)
Something that’s kinda telling to me from a production standpoint is that season 1 and 2 are the exact same length, 370 minutes, but the episodes are different lengths. So that, mixed with the creators saying stuff was cut a bunch just SCREAMS to me “hey we really wanted to do (x) but Netflix only gave us a set amount of time so we had to compromise” and I just feel bad for the writers honestly
it wasn't Netflix, it was Riot, wo stopped them.
I saw a clip of an interview from one of the arcane writers where she said they cut the writing staff down to 3 people in season 2 because of covid. And 2 of those 3 didn't have any writing credits for season 1, they just had supervising roles. Absolutely baffling if this is true, but it would explain why I disliked the writing decisions so much in season 2.
Netflix was just the distributor. It was their own who stopped them. In other words, it was their decision to rush it because they didn't want to sacrifice anything. Sometimes less is more and it shows here.
@@JohnnyNumber11even then I would say if you find that problematic then season 1 also falls flat as it as well has many cut scenes that where wanted and in parts necessary for the plot (again regarding Timebomb). Sure it wasn’t 3 hours of cut content but still.
The problem in my opinion was to give exact data what was cut.
All I have to say is "There is beauty imperfections." ...
But also "In the pursuit of great, we forgot to do good." 😂jkjk
that’s why do good not great, even though good isn’t perfect but they’re beautiful.
"There is no prize to perfection, only an end to pursuit"
@@Gratefullyeverydayagreed. I absolutely loved both seasons. I can still see the many flaws in the second season but it didn’t take away from my experience and I still got heavily attached to characters.
S1 gave us a politial conflict, S2 resolved it with zombie robots.
GLORIOUS EVOLUTION.
Okay this made my chuckle
I mean, is it resolved? The councils blockade got removed so freedom of movement between piltover and Zaun is allowed again but that’s really it.
There’s still chembarons running about, scrounging for power. We know Shimmer’s still being produced since Salo managed to get some long after Silco stopped production in season 1. Only real change is that there’s a single Zaunite on the council now, but that’s not exactly much. Some of the damage and strife was undone by the Medarda invasion, but only enough to the point where stuff is presumably back to where it was before episode 6 of season 1.
I watched season two right after season one, and the comparison to its predecessor was night and day. I searched others' opinions to find the conflict was a lack of quantity versus an inability to recognize quality; neither of these points seemed to fit. I then researched the team behind the show and their interviews with the media, only to learn they produced the second season with half the staff and used a near-polar-opposite creative process. That S2 was made for demand over desire, and that shift in philosophy saw them shrinking their team, and looking to other shows for the gap in inspiration.
Nit-pick until the cows come home, when the bottom line is that a shift in the conception and contributors happened at the first word, every justification becomes a compromise. Arcane is made better as a result of season two, but the second season did not make a better Arcane.
Do you remember the interviews where they talk about the production of S2? (I.e shrinking the team + shift in philosophy)
I went and did my own digging and Ive mostly found online speculation about what went on with the production
Loss of Political focus: oppressed for two centuries, forced them to suffer and work for the upper class who lives in a high castle, never gets hungry, and incredible rich because of the oppressed lower class. Silco wanted independence, probalby he just sat on the top of the food chain, and nothing woudl have changed. However Jinxed blowed up the aggrement. The Chembarons turned against each other, consequently all of them failed, because they only could have been strong enough together. However there were rebellion, and consequently even more suppression. The Pilties invited a foreing force to make the lower class life even more unbearable. And when the Pilties suddenly found themselves against a god like being supported by the Ambessa's Noxian forces, they reached for the lower class. Whom first realistically seemed leaving the city (I mean offering the route out is itself a fantasy), but than turning their back to the freedom, and going back to fight for their oppressors ws the real fantasy. 1789 Paris, the perfect example. I don't really see, how the oppressed working class would fought for the Bourbons. They fought for the Republic, for Napoleon, but not for the Bourbons. They would have fought for Jinx or maybe Ekko. But for Caitlyn, for an enforcer? Don't be ridiculous. And if Jinx or Ekko said to them, we have to fight for the Pilties, they would turnt their bakc to them. Season 1 started as a realistc show with fantasy elements, Season 2 ended up as a fantasy show with some realistic elements.
I need deeper explanation than your 2 unconvincing mins
Oh, and letting Sevike to sit in the council where 1 represents the working class, 7 the upper class, what chance does she has? If her word could habve veto in every matter, maybe, but I don't think the aristocracy would go that far. She became a useful idiot for the upper class. By the way, noone listened to Sevike when she tried to make a speech by Vander's statue, whom does she represent than? It's a facade. If they'd show how another chembaron takes over the control and everything goes back to the way it was before, it'd have been realistic. The upper class never does anything for the lower class, till the lower class don't rebell and fight for their rights. Just look hwere are we again. Look how the modern capitalist burgoise use the poor to keep them in power
I agree with this, but I also heavily disagree. The Zaunites never fought for just Piltover, they mainly fought for the Zaunite people. They knew that if they did not stop Viktor and Ambessa, they, and possibly everyone, would be stripped of their individualism through Viktor's unity. The point of me bringing up the way they look at Sevika is supposed to show that political unrest in the finale which people didn't seem to understand even though I said it very clearly. You speak of the "2 minutes" I use to talk about this subject but that's because I didn't want to spend so much time covering something that wasn't something I could combat as easily as the other three points. I agree with Silco not doing anything because he became like the Piltovans by taking control of Zaun and oppressing these people. What I don't agree with is the fact that the Zaunites fought for Piltover. You use the example of 1789 Paris and that's exactly what happened here. They didn't fight for the Piltovans, or at least mainly for Piltover, but they clearly fought for Zaun. Sevika failed to rally Zaun without the help of Jinx (in the case of episode 4, Isha, who represents the idea of Jinx), but the finale shows the Zaunite people who left the Piltovan meeting rally against Ambessa and Viktor to fight for the people of Zaun, only fighting for Piltover by proxy. As for Sevika having a say at the table, that doesn't matter because she's at the table. This does a lot for her and Caitlyn's character
@@Eggroll3sperhaps. But it does feel very forced that this "Being that takes away individuality" comes out of nowhere bc that wasn't really viktors arc at first, nor was it even a plot in season 1. I just feel that season 2 Is a completely different show than season 1. Perhaps like a... Fanfic or something? But not a continuation because nothing from season 1 is really solved fully in season 2
@ateneamaurtua I feel like it's very in character for Viktor as explained in my Viktor section. He's experienced external and internal discrimination and malice from when he was a little kid until Jayce shoots him. The moment before his "death", he finally understands the flaw in humanity. This is just a very basic explanation and there's a LOT of depth and complexity for this character
@@Eggroll3s However that shoot made no sense either. Not for me at least. The decisions in Season 1 were more grounded and moved the story forward naturally, in Season 2 I felt opposite. The action felt forced, just to move the sotry in a specific direction, what didn't root naturally in Season 1
Whether people see it bad or not, I believe everyone should have the right to enjoy it or not no matter the complaints. Everyone is different, and should be able to love the parts they do. For me, this season captured how people change very well, and when going through things, have hard conflicts within themselves which change them. As someone who is indecisive, I understood Caitlyn very well as I have struggled with hating/accepting someone in my life.
@@reduxxedr incredible point that I've been trying to say as much as possible. People think the point of this video is to change their minds, but it isn't; it's meant to state my thoughts on this show that means so much to me while telling people who dislike the final few episodes why I think they dislike it and the fact that I understand them. The dislikes are okay, people aren't required to enjoy the same media
@ I definitely agree
There is one problem with this position. Corporations which are in charge of creating content these days look only at the numbers, and therefore the majority dictates the quality of the product. And the problem is that the majority of people are just simply not educated enough and haven't consumed enough content to even understand why a bad show is a bad show. And that creates a situation in which corporations create more bad content, and people consuming it are just becoming dumber and they let even more garbage content slip. At the moment we still have some people opposing the idiocracy of corporations and capitalism in art and media space, but the numbers of these people are running thin.
Still, when a dissapointment of the size of Arcane 2 makes it to the world, there are only 2 paths. 1) to eat the trash and say give us more trash, or 2) to actually vote with your opinion and wallet. AND THAT IS WHY THE ONES WHO SEE THE FLAWS OF THIS SHOW ARE ACTUALLY DOING THEIR BEST TO CHANGE AT LEAST FUCKING SOMETHING.
@@vladimirrassushin8422 My issue with this stance is the arrogance of assuming that those who disagree are somehow ruining media. Phrases we keep seeing like, "If you liked S2, you're just coping," are shallow and discourage meaningful discussion by claiming authority over the conversation. There's also a lot of presumptions about people with differing opinions, when objectively the only thing y'all know is that they enjoyed a season of a video game-based cartoon more than you did 🤷♂️
That said, if S2 didn’t work for you, voting with your wallet is fair. But let’s not ignore the corporate vs creative angle. Corpos are responsible for the scope issues-like why S2 only got 9 episodes when most agree it needed at least two seasons. The creative team? That's different. Take Isha, for example: some found her "manipulative" as a narrative device, but her role as an "Influence Character" forcing Jinx to confront her past was an artistic choice, not a corporate mandate. And this landed with some while alienating others. Same with Ekko’s dance. Some found it "janky," while others saw it as a clever way to tie his Chronobreak into the emotional core of the scene. Subjectivity is key. I've noticed League players seem to have caught onto and appreciated this more, while many critics lead with them only knowing the property via the show. Which is fine! Different experiences inform our interpretations, like how music can resonate deeply with one person and leave another indifferent. Also keep in mind, if fortunate enough to get another season or series, creative teams who make mistakes due to tight runtimes or just risky artistic choices? They're the ones who may be most open to feedback before moving forward. Because, the bean counters don't care either way so long as it gets enough views.
TV has always had controversial seasons that were still profitable. If that’s the death of art, then art died long ago. Buffy had three (better) seasons after its divisive 4th, and Supernatural somehow went on for eight more after the insipid season 7, and some of those following seasons were improvements.
On the money angle: corporate success benefits the creative team. If S2 does well, they’re more likely to get approval for future projects. Similarly, on the games side, I wasn’t a fan of Mageseeker or Bandle Tale, but I didn’t root for them to fail. I’d have rather they succeeded so Riot Forge could fund something more in the vein of Ruined King...instead of getting shut down for being nonprofitable. Yay, a victory against art I sometimes liked but sometimes didn't, I guess? Not everything will land for everyone, but we should aim to support art we want to see more of, rather than celebrate the failure if they dare to put out a product that didn't resonate as deeply with you than other work of theirs.
@@vladimirrassushin8422also...damn...I mean, the season had flaws.
But "eating trash vs fighting to save art" is such a dramatic take lol
ALSO you already watched it, so voting with your wallet is technically off the table. All we are REALLY doing is padding the wallets of third parties giving us comfort food commentary on youtube lol. Unless you think telling the producers of an already cancelled series that you think their successful show sucked is going to "change at least fucking something"
Having rewatched Season One again before rewatching Season Two, I am now very much in agreement with you.
Arcane has always been a character driven story and centered on them and their conflicts. In this case their dualities and how they mirror and conflict with each other.
Season Two focused on two key principles/questions, "Can you find the power to forgive and move on?" & “That which inspires us to our greatest good, is also the cause of our greatest evil,”
These two things have very big significance after Season One.
In Season One the politics of extreme inequality and the conflict therein, while certainly influencing character motivations and serving as an important background for events to play out, the show was never explicitly about this conflict. The inequalities between the cities are a factor in the plot and themes but not the central narrative. The central narrative was about the sisters and their tragic relationship and those of others whose relationships are changed by the changing world of progress.
Silco's dreams of an independent Zaun are shown to be built on sand. He died, the revolution died with him. Piltover with Noxian help was able to subdue the undercity with relative ease. I can certainly fault the show for not allowing at least more time to better show this rather than using a quick montage that would certainly go over people's head on first watch. And I would certainly fault them for not doing a better job showing how Sevika and the others went about convincing Zaunites to fight in Piltover against a greater threat to them all. But again this was never the shows focus, especially with time constraints.
In regards to the exploration of Vi's subplot, upon rewatch I agree that the show ensured that we did not waste time exploring Vi's descent to the bottom of the bottle and her self-destructive behavior more than it needed to.
In regards to Caitlyn and Ambessa (this also applies to Vi and Jinx as well), we see clearly that grief has driven Caitlyn to do terrible things in her efforts to bring Jinx to justice. Things she has come to regret by the end when she breaks from Ambessa. And we see she has the strength to forgive Jinx and let go of her anger. Something that Ambessa cannot do with the Black Rose, it got her son killed and has driven her blindly to her death at the end.
And Viktor in his attempt to save humanity from its emotional contradictions, discovers too late in multiple timelines that he only functionally erased humanity entirely and created silence and desolation in his wake.
“That which inspires us to our greatest good, is also the cause of our greatest evil,”
Silco, Mel, Ambessa, Vi, Jinx, Vander, Heimerdinger, Jayce and Viktor have all done what they did out of love for their cause and those they hold dear. For both good and ill.
All in all, I just think slightly longer episodes and maybe one more episodes for Act's II & III would have allowed things to be made more explicitly clearer to viewers.
Most astute analysis overall good sir.
But the probelm with aeason 2 IS the focus on plot.
Season 1 was so great because the characters journey allows the plot to happen.
Season 2 feels hollow because the plot shoves so many character moments that could have happened to the wayside.
Also WAY too many things happen offscreen.
Ambessa's motivations don't make any sense, pretty much the whole time. She was just a vehicle to delived the climactiv action scene they wanted
@@yungthunder2681 that's what I said in my video. The problem people have with it is the shift from a character focused plot to a plot focused story. As for things happening off screen, I get what you're saying. I feel like they did more than enough, but people wanted more out of stuff like timebomb. Ambessa I don't get why people dislike her. I explain in my video that her motivation is very clear and she will stop at nothing to obtain it, no matter the cost. She's been this way since season 1. I appreciate the response, it's nice to see alternative takes
@@Eggroll3s People have weak "working memory" from between episodes, and between seasons is an even bigger ask. This is why relatively simple character arcs(Ambessa, Heimerdinger) are confusing to the wide audience. So many of them entered Season 2 as if those character's stories began there.
@@Eggroll3s I did not want stuff out of timebomb. I want attention on Vi's trauma and struggles and character development.
Instead I got "I am the dirt under your nails"
Thanks, season 2 writers 🙂
@@Eggroll3sDo you think it’s a pretty bad plothole how they don’t explain how everyone gets out of Stillwater? Because they show Embessa encounter Warwick but don’t show what happened with that. It doesn’t make sense for warwick not to just kill Embessa. How do all the Jinxers and Jinx get off the island, when Embessa is still there?
I actually preferred the idea of Mel never becoming a wolf, flat out rejecting her mother’s brutality (red) in favour of her true colours, kindness (gold)
I don’t necessarily think Ambessa is the final authority. I think her saying “you are the wolf” is more her giving herself peace by trying to claim her daughter is the way she wants, while fundamentally misunderstanding how and why Mel fought the way she did. Both are strategic and manipulative, but Ambessa has always been the aggressor imposing her will, while Mel always responds defensively, prioritising social strategy. They look the same on the surface, but I think Mel’s rule of Noxis will be quite different in the long run
I think it was a display of the brutality of Ambessa, in that she was able to push Mel over the edge through a roundabout way in the end. No character escapes their trauma fully in this show, as that is impossible in reality. Beauty in the imperfections. Just my take!
Frankly, even though season 2 is flawed, I became way more attached to it than seasson 1, i found arcane way more interesting and menorable after season 2
The main problem I see that people have is that it didn't tell the story they were expecting to tell. Also when you add in the time travel element of Viktor, it eliminates a great deal of the choice and weight of the characters motivating the plot as much as it did in the first season. It however was telling the story they wanted to tell, which was answering the question, "Can you forgive?" Is there anything too far that can't be forgiven?
This was the question they were answering.
Isha is the revolutionary they thought Jinx would be, Isha are the fans that thought Jinx would lead the war against Piltover, never understanding that she's chaos, only knows how to be chaos. Isha takes the tragedy and makes it heroic, her sacrificing herself is what she thought Jinx would do in that scenario to save the people she loves.
It's brilliant writing. But there's just a different story to be told that people wanted. The politics. The unrest.
Loved the show.
I have to disagree. The writing for season 2 is rushed while blatantly and conveniently skimming over character and plot development. All while yes subverting expectations but all at the cost of great setup from Season 1.
Where Season 1 was about a war between classes and the personal grievances of our characters, season 2 turned into a generic fight over a magical McGuffen. They put to rest years of conflict and animosity between Piltover and Zaun into 5-10 minutes because they simply saw a dead robot. It’s just lazy or rushed writing.
@@maximushenriquez1569 That's where you're wrong. It wasn't a war of the classes story. That wasn't the major theme.
It was a story asking one question. Can you forgive? What is the point of no return for which a person cannot be forgiven?
That's the entirety of the narrative.
It was done on the backdrop of these things, class war, industrialization, magic and politics. But it was never this story. Everything was character driven and thus it was trying to find a character truth. What point is some one too gone?
Can Zaun forgive Piltover?
Could Silco forgive Vander?
Could Jinx forgive Vi?
This is the big mistake that people make. This was a story that was in the background, it just weaved with the major narrative.
The throughline of this story has been forgiveness. Every character is faced with questions of forgiveness. Ambessa forgives her daughter and recognizes her as strong. Mel forgives her mother. Caitlyn accepts Jinx. Vi forgives Jinx. Vi forgives herself. Vi forgives Caitlyn. Ekko forgives Jinx through Powder, and then through Jinx in person. Zaun Forgives for the moment Piltover for the greater good.
In the alternate world Ekko is in, forgiveness alters everything, and it's even blatantly said by Silco, Vi's death triggers new talks between Piltover and Zaun, that creates new talks between Vander and Silco, and creates a paradise.
Isha is actually avatar for the story people wanted. And Isha is showing you the viewer what that results in. What truly embracing being the symbol of change means? Isha wanted nothing more in the world than to be Jinx. And all she knew of Jinx, the only thing she knew of her, was being a savior and a revolutionary to the people. That's how she mimicked her. She thought when Jinx painted Piltover it was a revolutionary act and that she was dying by accident and was willing to die for the cause. She didn't know it was an intentional act of self harm.
This is why Isha sacrifices herself. She thinks it's what Jinx would do. Jinx was sacrificing herself because she was self destructive.
Jinx's actions weren't revolutionary. They were chaos for the sake of chaos. A way for her to say, I can't go back. A way for her to permanently kill Powder. But you can't kill who you are. No matter how much you want to. She tries to make herself hated. But Vi can't stop loving her sister. And Jinx's act of terrorism and violence wasn't an act against Caitlyn but against a system and a people and because it was all she could do because she's a supremely broken person who could only break things. So Caitlyn couldn't keep hating her cause hate takes too much energy.
The entire story, from beginning to end, was about Forgiveness and that's what it was trying to tell you. It showed the viewer what they needed to know for the story. And then focused on the pieces that they could tell the story they wanted.
@ I can see how you’d come to that conclusion but it doesn’t change the fact that it was all rushed and poorly executed.
Especially with the conflict between Piltover and Zuan. Zuan didn’t choose to forgive Piltover they chose survival and teaming up with them was the optimal choice. But we wouldn’t know if they genuinely did forgive them because it all ended the same episode it started with no elaboration after the fight, just Sivika on the counsel. For all we know she could be plotting to backstab Piltover.
Ambessa forgiving Mel for getting her killed because she was “strong” is just shallow and nonsensical. I would say she was proud rather than forgiving.
Season 2 overall is just too open for the interpretation of viewers, between the time skips and weak choices of dialogue between characters. I get actions express words but when dealing with a complex show like Arcane they weren’t enough.
Wow so much cope loaded into one comment.
@@maximushenriquez1569 The fact that Jinx was even alive and given the chance to escape prison with her +30 body count and terroristic attacks... I can understand the Zaunites, but any self-respective common citizen of Piltover, specially the nobles and enforcers, SPECIALLY CAITLYN, saw her as a crazy terrorist, and realistically would've excecuted on the spot. If anything it didn't show "can you forgive?", it showed "love and lust is blind" with Caitly failing to 1) See Maddy's betrayal out of superficial affection, 2) Betrating her principles, justice and her people to please Vi's heart.
I wouldn't call it a masterpiece under any circumstance, but it was really good, still. But I need to rewatch the whole thing again to be sure.
That's perfectly okay! I love differing opinions and would love to hear your thoughts post rewatch
season 1 will age like wine, season 2 like milk
Is already aging like milk.
Yep, but no one cares about the art of storytelling anymore. Just give 'em the character they like doing cool thing and that's all you need to do to get unbridled praise.
@@Dr.Pelican-bw2zsfinally found a string of comments that don’t make me question my sanity
Season 2 was good but honestly those last two episodes just had me asking “How did we get here?”.
If you think about it season 1 was about jinx and vi, the relationship between two sisters with some magic and politics here and there. But season 2 had this dramatic shift, jinx and vi no longer felt like the main focus of the show and it felt like the new main focus was the high tops.
One of my biggest issues with season 2 is not seeing viktor more during his transformation. He gets injured, heals, then comes back 5 episodes later being the messiah god sent leader cultist having super powers to heal anyone and anything. I understand how he became like that, I just hate the fact we barely see any of this.
Another issue was vander, I felt like introducing him as a reborn monster was just lazy writing to have some sort of plot to make Vi on jinx’s side again. Not only that what was the whole point of jinx’s friend Isha sacrificing herself if he literally comes back an episode later
And I’m sorry but you can’t convince me ambessa was interesting or fun to watch after the few episodes later she was introduced. The same can be said about any of the other hightops that weren’t caitlyn, jayce, viktor or heimerdinger.
I wished the show just stuck to what it was. A relationship between two sisters with magic and politics. And in season 2 it never felt like there was a true conclusion for them.
I agree I can’t help but feel a real reason season 2 didn’t hit for so many people was because the political aspect of the piltover and Zaun relationship is built up in the beginning of season 2, showing how Piltover due to rebel/terrorist attacks is becoming more and more facist, however the dynamic is basically scrapped in order for piltover + zaun to fight amnesia and victor, entirely changing the expected but more importantly set up conflict we wanted to see, this made the way the story is taken feel one of strange and out of left field in my opinion
@@bananaananab3916 Exactly😭 So many plot points forgotten or not fleshed out enough just ruined season 2.
@@EyeEatRizzLordsForBrunch The first season was ultimately a tale of two sisters, but politics was the key focus as the struggle between Piltover and Zaun influenced every crevice of every character and decision. I get what you mean when you say it's not the main focus because it ultimately does take a backseat to cover grander ideas. As for Viktor, I can't really argue against that as I thought it was great and the opinion you have is perfectly valid. Vander/Warwick is kind of meant to be that in a sense. The reason why it's actually well made, in my opinion, is the fact that Warwick is designed to be the bridge between Vi and Jinx. Even though they're sisters, they do not fit well together and, after the first act of the show, we never see them together again without a mediator or reason like Vander or Isha. It's a fleeting moment that they want to strip away as fast as it came, and I think that's awesome. Also, just to clear up, Vander didn't come back. He died in the commune as Warwick's remaining blood was used to heal Viktor, with Warwick's lifeless corpse being used like a puppet. The sacrifice wasn't lessened because the message and point was still there, and, even if Warwick didn't die, Isha destroyed enough to allow them to escape to safety. She's the Powder who never was. Honestly, for the rest of your points, I totally understand it. The show differs from season 1 which, even though I love, people can see as extremely jarring. If you want a show focused on relationships and politics, I think you should watch Andor. Season 2 comes out next year I believe and season 1 is a masterpiece. I appreciate the comment a lot though. So many people are saying random negative garbage without giving reason as to why they don't like it, so there's no dialogue to be had. I like discussing things with people which is why I made this video in the first place. I really appreciate your comment, thank you.
@@bananaananab3916 I addressed this in my video by saying that I can't actually counter this criticism because it's not wrong. Even if the political focus has taken a backseat and is still really good in my opinion, it's not the main focus which, for a lot of people, can be so jarring. I totally understand why people don't like this. Thank you for actually stating why you don't enjoy aspects of Arcane instead of just commenting with random negativity
Yeah and then apparently only 2 people from the writers of season one worked on season 2 due to the writing strike
Appreciate the calm and astute observations, keep it up!
In regards to pacing, I believe it's a very broad and subjective topic. It can entail a fast rhythm, missing beats to ensure a natural progression, overwhelming information to fully digest and more. Although I had no issues following the story, I was perplexed at the direction it was going. At times it moved too erratically without proper anticipation, as if the writers intended a specific destination without fleshing out the journey to it, making it feel unearned or forced into a preconceived narrative. In my view, it became very apparent with the sister's reunion in ep5, albeit a very critical moment, it wasn't sold very effectively with how little substance they devoted to reach that point.
Viktor's arc is difficult to unpack, but for me it boils down to his pursuit of ending all suffering. He realized that no matter how healthy we are, the seed of evil is planted much deeper in the human essence, therefore we'll never vanquish it unless we abandon our very nature. Like you elaborated, this comes at the cost of erasing all individuality and agency to ensure a peaceful, but also stagnant and purposeless outcome. There's much more to this idea, would love to hear your two cents on this.
Although implicit storytelling is often praised for its artistic flair, one caveat if executed poorly is widening the range of interpretation and undercompensate. S2 has a mixed reception, those who absolutely love it to those who despise it, while both enjoyed the first season. While mostly caused by shifting the focus from characters to plot, which didn't work for those who specifically liked it for the former, I reckon it's also due to how the abstruse structure led people to spin their own narrative around it to justify their feelings. It's not necessarily a critique to the show, but it highlights how if people want to see the good or bad parts in it, they can. I've seen plenty of postive discourse, yet it's very variegated and I find it hard to assess what the writers truly meant or whether it was the viewer's perception.
I totally understand all of these complaints. My brother (who I mentioned in the video) talks about how Arcane's second season isn't long enough to flesh out certain things without feeling like point A to point B. He also states that implicit stories don't work in situations like this because these are "major story beats that shouldn't be treated like afterthoughts". As for Viktor, there's a lot more regarding his ego and loneliness, like when he says to Sky "I will miss our talks" with her replying "No, you won't." Viktor used her notes to validate his ego, only caring about her death after reading them. It's small things like these that enhance these characters so much and make them seem real, even with their already deep character arcs. Appreciate the comment, thank you for discussing!
As someone who loved Season 1 and was dumbfounded by how much of a 180 Season 2's writing was, I have to at least applaud the title of this video. Every other analysis I've seen leans either on one side or the other, but you openly invite *both* sides to watch your video. Well done, really stuck out to me!
I can barely pay attention because that 3ds eshop theme takes me back in time
I don’t think that Arcane S2 deserves all of the hate. Yeah it’s definitely flawed and needed more, but it’s still an extremely good show. And after seeing all of the hate towards the writers, I don’t think it’s warranted. That hate should be directed towards Netflix. Why? Because from what I’ve been hearing, bigwigs at Netflix told the creators to shorten the episodes. Like WTF Netflix. The creators wanted to do more, but Netflix just said Nah, it’s too long. Even with its most successful show, Netflix manages to screw it up as per. Like come on !!!!😡😡😡
S1 gets better and more coherent the more you look. S2 gets worse and less coherent the more you look. I was disappointed with S2. But only because it was a disservice to S1. If it existed on its own it would be fine.
Perfectly understandable complaint. Some wish the story stayed grounded even if they liked season 2 which I cannot argue against
That's a good way to put it. Rewatching season 1 was a treat, but rewatching season 2 mostly just made me realize the ways the series was lacking. Not bad, by any means, but still.
Rewatching season 1 made me realize just how much season 2 had to work to improve (It failed)
Season 1 was flawed throughout
@@SirGamalotyep, specifically stakes. How people applaud season 1 for remaining "grounded" after the memorial Ambush is insane. Mel should have died, I actually thought Jayce was going to get hurt and develop his default outfit because would he get badly maimed here. No, just climatically walked down to be last minute saved. That episode was a WHOLE bunch of last minute saves and it was kinda bothersome.
@@LaztheLax Memorial ambush was season 2 act 1 though...
I feel the criticism it could have been two seasons instead of one, covering the exact same story beats overall, should have been addressed. It’s not just me who says this, either; I’m aware it’s not that simple but it’s worth commenting on at least.
I don't think it's big enough to be honest. My main response would be what I've been saying in the comments: more episodes would've been better since more content means we can flesh more things out. This ties back into the idea of bad pacing
I really enjoyed this season. I have some issues with it, but there’s a lot to love too. Those who praise the second season as a masterpiece _and_ those who have far less favorable criticisms and complaints both tend to make solid arguments that I agree with (or at least understand).
You literally explained why it is not a masterpiece, calling Arcane Season 2 a masterpiece is a huge stretch.While the animation and visuals remain top-notch, the season faltered in pacing and narrative execution.
It was rushed, leading to underdeveloped storylines and reducing characters to mere plot devices. Complex additions like time travel and the Black Rose muddled the plot, stripping it of the coherence and focus that defined Season 1.
The shift toward spectacle came at the expense of emotional depth and character-driven storytelling.
Beyond its style, the season simply lacked the substance to live up to its predecessor.
The Black Rose and the time travel were interesting concepts executed pretty poorly especially the first one.The season is aesthatically great but bad in its execution because the bad far outweighs the good when you compare to Season 1 and focus beyond aesthetics.
Most characters in season 2 were not even characters, just plot devices with a body and some voice lines...if they even have voices..
Literally no consequences to Vi and Caitlyn's risk because Mel provided sudden literal plot armor to the latter and the former's character was assassinated just to prioritize a ship.
There was also no logic to the Jinx chase strategy nor to the Kiraman hit squad only consisting of 5 people smh.
It's very convenient how the antagonist suddenly becomes Ambessa Medarda whom just gets off'd thanks to Mel's deus ex machina magic without an actual explanation regarding how she passed.
How the hell does Ambessa dying to the Wolf complete her character arc when it just results in losing her daughter and her life at her hands, essentially burning bridges with their noxian ties too ?
Very convenient that Noxus now becomes the main villain when the responsible of the massacre of season 1's finale is literally a zaunite among the supposed good guys and protected for some reason.
There's also no logical reason as to why the enforcers in act 3 don't recognize Jinx despite the fact she has her face plastered everywhere for instance.The fact there's missing episodes is no excuse to what was released, why add so many plotlines when you can't even handle it properly ?
For instance Ekko and Vi are supposed to be close yet they don't interact at all nor even adress each other, you just have to believe it because it's explicitly stated lol
What the heck was the Loris character's point ? Looking like Vander and just being theres while Vi gets drunk over a girl she barely knows without even seeking a supposed close friend for support ?
(That's only a few of the issues there is with the characters, the plot and its execution)
How did I explain why it's not a masterpiece? I addressed common criticism to show why I think the show covers those holes that people think exists, making it, in MY OPINION, a masterpiece. The point of this video is to help people relate if they did or didn't like season 2. It's an avenue for discussion about something very subjective. Saying that I "literally stated why it is not a masterpiece" is factually incorrect by that metric
This may be a rambly hot take and is a little random, but I really dislike how starved for actual "good" content most audience members are nowadays, that they just so carelessly throw out these bold claims and fancy words on the regular now like, "It was a masterpiece" or "So immaculate" for the most bare minimum effort of work. Nothing is perfect and you can like something as much as you want but masterpiece is a really really high bar, almost nothing can reach that in my personal opinion. However what gets me is almost everything that releases at this point is deemed a masterpiece so long as it's not utter garbage or isn't as bad as other stuff we've had these recent years past. Or the excuse, "You start to like it on your third or fourth watch" is especially heinous, because doesn't that mean you're just forcing yourself to like it? I don't get it. You shouldn't have to rewatch something over and over to like it or even get the point the movie/show is trying to make. It makes me kind of sad to see people see the state of things and just kinda coping with it instead of still wanting to recieve the better quality we expect...
@@haleyrose9751 I honestly 100% agree. The people who know me know that I have an EXTREMELY high bar for media because I've indulged in both good media and previously extremely bad media. We have such limited time that I refuse to indulge in boring mediocre slop, and I really despise those who say "masterpiece". There are really only two or maybe even three shows at most that have reached that level for me, and even those have flaws. I don't know if this was directed at me or not, so my statement is pretty general. I think anyone can think anything is a masterpiece, but I've seen people dish out 10/10 and 9/10 to like, almost everything they see and it's extremely annoying. Indulging in slop gives these creators more incentive to make slop, no matter the type of media you're indulging in. Even if people disliked Arcane, they can't deny that it changed the game with revolutionary animation, budget usage, scale, voice acting, etc.
On another note about your "third or fourth watch" point: that's why I can't like one piece. The concept is cool, the designs are cool, it's theoretically pretty cool, but it's way too long and people saying "oh yeah wait until you get to episode 200 that's when it kicks off" are insane. Like, 200??? That's longer than all of Hunter x Hunter's 2011 anime adaptation which in of itself is a masterpiece of literacy
Well, you are entitled to your opinion, personally I do call Arcane a masterpiece and don't remember even give that title to any other show, so i dont really use it lightly.
I also don't see many people using that word that much, but im also not looking every corner of the internet so i could be wrong.
A lot of misinformation thrown around by people. Since I know my comment will just get nuked if I give any links or drop any names:
- No it was never meant to have 5 seasons.
- The writer's room imploded after season 1, HENCE season 2 "feels" (is) different.
- The messages, the decisions, the execution of season 2 falls onto 3 people only. 1 of them having a meltdown after criticism.
I do want to evoke the concept of "Death of the author" in here, since facts might paint a specific objective picture about both pre production, production and results. Yet, people will always see what they want to see, and can easily find ways to spin any work to fit a narrative, a point, a simple thought. That's what art is by the end of the day. But just let me say this, two wrongs won't make a right, and blind love is at the end of the day based on that brittle fact: An illusion. Art has the power to captivate people without even trying, it can resonate with people all the way from the harshest critics to the easiest to please crowds. And from living amongst the different camps that were laid out once Arcane came to be. I know one part managed to win them all.
Sources: Reddit, Twitter, UA-cam, Twitch. Again, sorry, but there is evidence out there. Apparently people can't even post it to further discussion. Loves and kisses everyone.
@@NerdyDumbProductions appreciate someone finally saying it! I think if you post links it'll be flagged and show up, so I'll allow them to go through. Not sure if that's how it works though
I’m glad people can still enjoy it, even with the many many flaws. At least I’m not the only one that loves arcane as a whole
The thing most ppl hate about this season was it not being politically focused on the class war between Piltover and Zaun since Silco and Vander (but particularly Silco) left a mark on viewers. They wanted that legacy to be the backdrop for the characters for more episodes. But what ppl miss is that the land of Piltover/Zaun exist in a world where other powerful nations exists. Where other elements enter and pretty much trample and dwarf the romantiscism of said class war to me is the realistic element of the show which to viewers felt didn’t hold weight. But it was a pragmatic tool to show that the world that Arcane exists in is bigger than the class war between Zaun and Piltover. Why wouldn't Ambessa, a fabled Noxian warlord, hijack the chaos between Zaun and Piltover for her goals? Historically class tribal/civil wars has always been easy opening for a new regime to exploit and tactically usurp to form a new order. Ambessa's aim was the hijack a military weapon that would threaten the Black Rose in Noxus and form her own regime by becoming the America to Noxus's Russia per se in an military arms race. There's no emotional build up for these elements. Just sheer pragmatism given the nature of the character that has a geo political aim. Same with the Black Rose who suddenly infilitrates with their own clandestine goals and learn that Mel is also a "secret weapon" connected to the arcane. It shows that there's a breathing world beyond Piltover/Zaun's story arc. What Season 1 was built up for is the slow cooked romanticization, whereas Season 2 builds new plot lines on top of what was romanticized with the pragmatism of bigger and grander forces that kind of introduce an "alien invasion" considering how powerful Ambessa, The Black Rose, and the HexCore is juxtaposed to the class war that make the class issue seem small but more endearing in value. I think the show did a brilliant job of juggling what a chaotic civil war environment with many characters that have their own agenda would look like, sync into one, would like. That's a tall order for any writer/writers to accomplish. Not to mention the memorble poetic pieces of dialogue I can go on and on about. So I agree with you that this is should be rated as it own masterpiece 10/10 since it achieved something that wasn't just a continuation of Season 1 in structure and design.
P.S This even worked into the idea of the theme of the show "Enemy" since each character clashed with other based on ideology, for the good and bad.
From the opening scene you'd think arcane was primarily about political conflict. Season 2s ending had some of that but it was mostly just pinning all the blame on Ambessa. Like piltover hadnt been oppressing them before she started stoking the flames. "No amount of good deeds can undo our crimes!!" Screams Caitlyn the military dictator who gassed civilians with toxic chemicals 😊
I like how she says "our" here yet she's the one who gets no judicial repercussions for her actions
@@WithoutFear804 it was an ending about unity which does conclude the political plot but some think it's weak. I personally think it's weak ONLY IF Viktor doesn't exist. I get why people don't like them setting aside their differences to fight against a greater enemy. In a solely political show, it'd feel weak, but I think it works here because of the themes of humanity
I thought all of these points were fine. The biggest problem for me was the Black Rose. For someone who doesn't know the lore, nothing is really explained, like why did the woman say "clever girl" and why did Mel destroy her? I understand needing to create new threads for future locations, but not enough time was spent explaining anything, so it ended up feeling like wasted time that could have gone to Jinx, Vi, Viktor, Jayce, or Ekko and been put to much better use.
Great video! I loved season 2 as well so its nice seeing positive content on it
THANK YOU!! This is perfectly said.
My favourite part of this season was jinx and her arc. It was actually so well done. And that’s why I enjoyed it so much. I loved seeing her progress
I’d call it a rushed masterpiece. Too ambitious or too rushed, take your pick (I pick too rushed) but it’s a masterpiece for what they accomplished.
I don’t agree that season 2 isn’t rushed - but I do agree that the pacing isn’t actually the problem. It’s just that the pacing is somewhat linked to situations like how Vi lacked that tug and pull you were talking about.
That’s my only real gripe with Season 2 though. Rushed, but a masterpiece in spite of that.
I find it hilarious how, yes, the season had str9ng shortcomings compared to S1, but it remains as one of the greatest achievements of animation we'll see in probably the current decade.
Like, it's like saying it's hot, but not as hot as the sun.
The sun is pretty fucking hot, the fact that a comparison can be made is a statement on itself.
I loved season 2, but admittedly I initially conceded a bit on the Caitlyn complaints, because she does seemingly switch on a dime at the commune, even though I did pick up on her subtle resistance to Ambessa's fascism. I read some people essentially framing it as Cait turning just because she's such a simp for Vi. But, after mulling it over a bit, I think she did oppose Ambessa the whole time, as you said, but got swept up in everything and didn't feel brave enough to really stand up to Ambessa. Then she stumbles across Vi, a person she has framed as inspirational and brave to the Enforcers...Vi provides Cait with both a cause for action and the bravery to take it. She chose that moment to make her move not because she's horny for Vi, but because Vi inspires her to be brave.
The problem is that we aren't shown at any point Caitlyn going against Ambessa right up until she reunites with Vi.
She had disagreements with her but never outright opposes her actions in any significant way. Cait even went to Stillwater and saw the carnage Warwick caused. But because Vi told her he was her dad, she still just flips.
This isn't "show, don't tell", we're neither shown, nor told.
@@brian0057 she does do this though. We see it through implicit details like her facial expressions and how she reacts to things like in episode 4. I stated all of these in my video with examples (although, some are hard to see because I had to blur it out). This is also reemphasizing in the final act: "she oinked poison in your ear and you just took it" "I know".
Also, she doesn't object Ambessa out of fear because Ambessa has the army, but also because she's so hyperfixated on Jinx to the point where she ignores everything else.
@@brian0057 She also flat out DOES oppose her with her actions. The scene when Ambessa recruits Singed comes to mind...Cait showing up there to basically say "I see what you're doing" and then being prepared to shoot him despite knowing Ambessa wants to use him.
@@Eggroll3s
I agree that she's hyperfixated with Jinx. It makes sense and it's in character.
But I dont agree that she's afraid of Ambessa. When Caitlyn talks back to Salo at the end of Episode 1, the reaction shot of Ambessa told me she was impressed with her.
So when she nominated Cait for commander, it made total sense to me. Because she wasn't some pushover like Salo. Ambessa didn't want a simple puppet. She wanted someone strong under her control. Cait doesn't underestimate her, but she never seems to be afraid of her.
This is why her going with Vi in episode 6 seems so jarring. Maybe an extra scene of her talking with Maddie about scheming to undermine Ambessa would've made it much better. And it would've reinforced Maddie's betrayal in Act III so much more.
@@kyu2o337
Yes, but that ultimately leads nowhere. Ambessa doesn't even stop her.
After Singed tells his story about his daughter and shows them, Singed still goes with them and still trying to hunt Warwick.
That's why I say Cait never opposes Ambessa in any significant way. It's not until Vi shows up that she flips.
For me it felt like they built up so much character and world plot only to have them fizzled out in season 2, I like the plot points of season 2 but it feels like a bullet point version of what it could have been. The writing just feels worse compared to season 1. Don’t get me wrong I had fun but the more I took the story in the more I was left with the thought of “that's it?”.
I was hoping to get attached to isha in a way she was her own person but we literally don’t know anything about her and her death was just a "welp that's what thought" rather than feeling like it was an inevitable sad outcome.
What made me love season 1 are the complex characters that have done shitty things but they are so much their own person, they have goals, they have reason.
I went from hating sevika for betraying Vander to being captivated at the fact that she's doing this for Zaun, she followed Silco cuz she believed he was the closest thing to that. As much I think it's interesting that she became a part of the council, specially since her goals are far from it, I would have loved to see journey to that but we don’t.
At best we got "everyone got arrested so she's the only option", the plot felt shoved in rather than the character carved it in herself.
Season 2 was fun but the only reason I’d rewatch is for the art and maybe rewatch really fun scenes like ep 7 and Sevika with new arm
I think some people are exaggerating a bit.
Of course the writing could've been much better and one more season or at least one more act could've fixed a lot of the problems and most of the criticisms are well justified, BUT some people and UA-camrs are acting like S2 was completely TRASH!
Like I get your points but S2 was still fantastic. No need to ignore all of the positives and solely focus on negatives.
It was a flawed masterpiece. Still a 9/10 show
I suspect arcane season 2 is the type of story that rewards you the more you rewatch and analyze it? But victors heel turn and everyone kinda dripping their conflicts to fight him like flew by really fast?
Some of the story lines dont make any sense at all an felt forced just to continue to plot. There was for example no reason for singed to go to the vander statue where he got captured and eventually joined ambessa and causing Vander very conviniently meeting jinx and vi afterwards, but this was completely out of character for singed. Usually people come to him, but he has never shown any interest for anything outside of his experiments, you cant even say he was just curious to meet jinx. He also coudnt anticipate that he needed Ambessa to recapture Vander , because Vander was completely under his controll before he went there. He didnt know victor was "enlightened" at that point and he could have easily walked there by himself. He was just there out of nowhere when he would have to him more important things to do.
@@ssbbSephi singed went there because it was a rally for Zaun and he knew what was gonna happen after we saw all of the scenes involving protests, riots, and checkpoints. He went there to test his creation and there's no better way to do that than to kill some filthy Piltovans
@@Eggroll3s I dont think so, did he actually say anything about that? He never needed to expose himself in the past to test his experiments, he always kept to himself. He doesnt care about Piltovans or Zaunites, he joins whoever suits him the best to reach his goal. Also even when Vander and his other "creation" were fighting in s1 before Vander died, he didnt have a care in the world and was just sitting in his lab. Someone who kept to himself for his entire life doesnt suddenly leave his comfort zone and take the risk to be killed/captured, unless he would have been realldy desperate ofc. Even if he wanted to test Warwickvander, there are WAY easier and less risky ways for him to do that, not to mention recapturing vanderwick would have been impossible without the help of the noxian armee. He didnt forsee that, he was sitting in his lab on a chair for the entire season. Regardless of his reasons to go there and presenting himself on a silver plate, it was WAY too convinient for the plot to progress.
Honestly, I’ve been seeing a lot of hate criticizing the writing, but I don’t think it’s the writing’s fault. It’s Netflix’s fault. Now before I say anything else, this is just SPECULATION FROM RUMOURS. I’ve been hearing online that Arcane basically told the shorten episodes because they were “too long”. I love Arcane S2, but do feel like it needed more. So hearing this boils my blood. So maybe let’s not hate on Arcane, but the guys at Netflix for cutting down footage.
I somewhat disagree. I think it sucks if Netflix told them to shorten the episodes a d cut some stuff out, but they were offered to do 5 seasons some time after season one. Plus someone on the team said the animation team always overdelivers and adds extra stuff that wasn't in the script. I imagine if you cut out every music video, every slow-mo shot, every non-essential bit of fluff that the writers likely weren't involved in, you could likely cut the runtime of the whole season down by nearly half an episode in exchange for more important scenes. The writers could have easily done more, they CHOSE not to.
Before watching the video, I don't feel like there's anything wrong. The pacing of the first season was the exact same, and equally brilliant.
Honestly I think quite a large bit of complaints come from people who are kinda hyped up on the internet hate train(not that there aren’t criticisms of course) but there were videos saying it sucks within like a day of it ending which at least to me doesn’t sound like enough time to gather your thoughts properly
But I dunno, at least for me, over these past few weeks I’ve really come to appreciate what the show has done amazingly but also understand some issues. Overall I’d still say it’s peak cinema but that’s my thoughts🤷♀️
Well, after watching it and not seeing any reviews about it. (like 5 minutes after the end, after I managed to come down from the high of the ending, and getting to see probably Raum) I had the same feeling that it didn't make sense in the end.
In season 2, Jaycee gets a new jacket. We dont know where it came from. In season 1, vi gets a new jacket and they show where she got it. Clothes r important in arcane and in season 1 they show u where changes came from
Caitlyn sucks. Her mom dies and she becomes a dictator. Vi should have told her HER story and told caitlyn to stuff it. Vi never tells caitlyn shes being privileged.
We needed more ekko and heimer ):
We needed more ekko and jinx
We dont get shown why jinx comes back to save vi
Warwickshire presence should be more complicated. Especially for vi.
The ending???? So zaun is fine with being under piltovers foot now??? Season 1 showed y things r complicated, why they happen, it was so accurate. But season 2 they introduce a new villain and have everyone fight them. Then when that new villain is taken care of, zaun just smiles and goes back to being oppressed??? Theres no RAGE?
I explained why the ending doesn't do that in the video. Jayce doesn't get a new jacket prior to episode 8, his new design is just a ruffled version of his preexisting design which is why you see the same collar, shirt, and untucked coattails. Even so, okay? Vi's scene is a cute little exploration of her character since it's the first time we see her after she's been toughened up in prison for a little under a decade. You say Cait sucks but that literally does nothing because you don't explain anything. Vi does tell Cait that she maybe shouldn't do this with the "promise me you won't change" only for her to get hit with Cait's rifle after being intentionally grazed by her bullet, so clearly that didn't work. Jinx saving Vi, if you're referencing episode 5, is stated in the video as well. Jinx wants Vi to see Vander too so they can unite as a family.
@Eggroll3s sorry, I didnt mean that comment to criticize u
I was just kinda listing/ venting
Sorry for the confusion
I wouldn't say master piece just because some important characters we pushed back or seemed off. However, I enjoyed this season alot! :) I feel like Netflix only giving them a set amount of time and resources on top of cost made it so difficult.
it's overall a lot to process. I think it's a fraction as good as season 1 which still makes it a masterpiece, but it definitely gets better with every rewatch. for the record I've watched the entire first season in full over 6 times not counting the times I go back to individual episodes. I've only done 1 rewatch of season 2 not counting individual acts and episodes, but that will defnitly change. I'm learning new things with every rewatch, and by watching analyses from others with more runeterra knowledge. that's another thing. season 2 is more reliant on pre-existing runeterra lore with characters such as leblanc, janna, and swain, kinda. but the more the second season encourages me to seek out and learn about runeterra itself, the more I have to appreciate.
The issue I have with it, as someone with a little bit more than passing Runeterra knowledge, but definitely not an expert, is that it baited me in with easter eggs and references. I was so busy going “WOAH! THAT THING!” And not paying attention to the very real flaws. I still enjoyed the season, but it was definitely not nearly as tight as season 1.
Yeah, at the end I was like „Oooh! And what will happen now?!” (because of Raum) And it took me a few minutes to realise that a bunch of stuff didn't make sense. And this wasn't the first time.
Arcane is a masterpiece
I wonder how much of the criticism I see is a vocal minority and natural result of something gaining wider popularity. I've yet to see a nuanced objective criticism...it usually boils down to expectations and entitlement.
A lot of it is valid, but there was one review I saw that was so abhorrent I had to pause midway to take a step back. He said his criticisms weren't nitpicks and people are wrong/stupid or whatever, then proceeds to complain about things like Caitlyn's 5 person strike team being so small and Caitlyn not accurately using a mirror to look at Jinx? Like who cares? It's stuff like that that shows people don't know what they're talking about
@@Eggroll3s it was cinema sins?
@@ohbabybaby4087no, but the guy made a cinema sins style video as well. It was really bad
There are a lot of weird decisions in season 2, like the two enforcers with barely any dialogue. They seem more like stand-ins that are supposed to symbolise an enforcer rather then actual characters. It's these sort of things that make it really difficult to get invested in season 2 for me, and when you're watching something you aren't invested in, all the smaller issues that are normally easy to overlook, stand out all the more.
@@mitzee8621 I feel you, and I'm sorry you couldn't get in to this season, that sucks.
The barely character Enforcers, I assume you mean Loris and fish guy? I think their main purpose was to illustrate the randomness of war at the end, along with the tattoo guy that sends away his family, piano guy, and Gert.
Season one had characters like this too, I think fans refer to Licker and Howl. Chuck/Thierem is another one, and honestly Sky has a bigger role post mortem than she did in season one.
I don't think the pacing is the issue. The ammount of information they needed to tell the story simply didn't fit in 9 40-minute long episodes. The montages helped a lot but we missed transitional scenes and the time to take us from point A to point D. B and C were simply skipped and left to our imagination or simply removed. The episodes needed to be longer. I wouldn't change anything to the story. I would simply add scenes, dialogue and character interactions to deliver it better.
I can behind this. I actually said it in my video, so I totally understand why people think this
You're describing a pacing issue. Story beats are like speed bumps that pace the story down, and the story is missing a lot of them which is what makes it feel rushed
@@chrishaven1489 Bad pacing can be argued about shows that mismanage their available time. Think of the Rings of Power whose pacing was atrocious. The last 4 episodes of House of the Dragon season 2 had bad pacing as well. They wasted time on bullshit and failed to fit the plot of the last two episodes that were cut from the story. Arcane managed to have a story thst needed at least 3 more hours of screentime done in the same timeframe as season 1. It's a studio problem.
I don't think the pacing criticism is about them not hinting/telling the details of the story, but rather for things to "feel" like they have weight.
If you show me 3s of a character development it doesn't have as much relevance as seeing that character change. This happens with many things, I kept getting a bit lost of alliances and whatnot of people because they changed every half -season- episode following a look in someone eyes or similar.
You can be subtle like that sometimes, but if you do it all the time, you end up losing more and more people.
I'm a fanboy of the series, and while I like it a lot, I feel like s2 act3 didn't matter half of what s1 act3 did. And part if it was because so many things were happening at once, that I didn't care for half of them anymore. I have friends that like the series but are not fanboys, and they directly didn't like the season, and I get it, part of me liking it is that I made a great effort to do so because I was very attached to s1.
So IMHO they use the credit that they got from s1 and burned it here to shove as many stories as possible in a 20 min show, for some people the credit was enough, but for some other people the credit was not enough. I was actually very happy on act1/2, for me the jumped the shark on act 3, where nothing seemed relevant anymore mostly for the pacing, but I still love the show as a whole.
EDIT: season -> episode
@@mikel-zzzz the criticism I stated was about the lack of explicit story beats that could've been there if it was longer. I used the example of Vi because we're supposed to know what she's like without the internal tug-and-pull I wish existed more. It feels like she just goes to Vander after a few scuffles with Jinx because we never see her have the dichotomy. My little thought tree said in his video that he wishes there was something small like Vi disagreeing with Jinx, seeing the mural, then deciding to help her with Vander. Something small like that would emphasize so much more than what is already really well presented in my opinion. I stated in the video as well that I'm admittedly a bit biased because I'm very immersed in the universe, so I quickly grasp aspects of it that require further analysis. That's why I understand if people criticize Arcane for things that should theoretically be very explicit
I am seeing a lot of legitimate criticism, and I can see where people are missing the cohesion of season 1. But for most of the issues I see raised, I feel like I was understanding some things they weren't. Certain criticisms even feel to me like people weren't paying attention enough or just missed implicit context(from body language, visuals, etc) and were just going by dialogue alone and not the meaning or intention behind it.
This might not make sense, but I think it was a masterpiece subjectively, but probably 7.5/8/10 objectively. I do feel the scale of season 2 is too grand, and would have liked it to be more grounded, but still thoroughly enjoyed.
I agree with almost everything, but I don't think a show can have an objective score. It goes against the concept of subjectivity because of the way we understand literature
@@Eggroll3s I get that. I just figured that score from a technical perspective: story/plot cohesion, animation/music quality, etc
I loved it, but there were some plot lines that were rushed while others could and should have been cut.
@@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive I can totally understand that. The show is very implicit in nature and I think it requires a lot of analysis for what people think should be basic story elements which creates this idea of a rushed story. I do wish they had more content but it sucks that Netflix gave them a forced time limit
@@Eggroll3s I don't think that describing the show as just having a 'very implicit nature' can be enough of a defence for what ultimately culminates to poor writing and structure on the writers' part in my opinion. And this argument gets a little shaky when you consider that the line between a story being 'implicit' and not actually showing/telling its story can be very thin. Even considering the implications of the scenes you described in your video, that for you, fill in the blanks of these characters' arcs sufficiently enough, there are still gaping holes in the narrative, character developments'/dynamics as well as in the plot - the last of which being something I was willing to look past should the show have stuck the landing with exploring its themes conclusively; which, to me, it didn't. For a plot-driven season, it doesn't do well in needling a comprehensive narrative thread without plot holes, which the harder you look at (specifically those regarding time, the multiverse, Silco and Vander's history etc.), the more the story, its themes and characters wither away.
And regardless of what the story is implying, if stakes aren't felt and important character moments given room to breath, the 'weight' of each character beat won't be felt. If you can't convey weight and emotional stakes then how are you going to get your audience to care about anything happening on screen? I am not saying for the writers to hold the audience's hand through it. I am saying that the writers didn't let the audience live the story through their characters' eyes and instead remained so implicit in their story-telling (especially for those that do not follow the game's lore) so as to estrange the audience, leaving them behind on character's decisions and motivations and forcing them to extrapolate on what they think is going on during big and small events. And this is why S1, a character-driven story worked, where S2 didn't. Plot-driven stories are structured around the events that need to occur to progress the story forward, often leaving behind emotional pathos, leading to characters doing and saying things that don't feel earned e.g., Jinx and Ekko joining forces and joining the battle in Piltover against Viktor and Ambessa's army within an instant of the two meeting and Ekko reversing time enough times to prevent Jinx's suicide. Mind you, these two almost killed each other in their previous scene together in Season 1. No further exploration of the conversation that they could have had that would not only make Jinx rethink suicide but encourage her to join the cause is quite a bizarre narrative choice.
Another glaring example of poor writing that I cannot get past is the one of Ep. 9 when Jinx is actually shown to not have died, after a sacrificial act of saving Vi's life and instead is shown to have escaped and supposedly left the world of Piltover/Zaun on her own. It is indicated that Caitlin figures this out but not that Vi knows that her sister is still alive. I have seen a lot of people say that it was necessary for Vi to believe that her sister was dead as that was the only means through which she would have let her go. With one of the greatest aspects of Vi's arc being that she needs to learn to let go of loved ones and learn what it means to live for herself, not just for others, without feeling immense guilt/regret and responsibility/blame for what happens to them and neither having to face severe consequences and great loss as a result, it is a cheap way to force her to essentially 'move on' and simply 'let go' of her sister because she physically isn't there anymore i.e., she's dead. Which itself is a lie because of course Jinx isn't dead. Not only is it a very selfish choice on Jinx's part to leave Vi believing that her sister is dead, it avoids either character having to actually confront the struggle of their dynamic and their past together. It feels like a cop out on the writers' part to address this compelling part of her character development. Vi feels stripped of any agency of her own in this matter and Jinx's dishonesty creates greater distance in a sister relationship that I believed had much greater potential for closeness. This great lie that Jinx leaves Vi believing feels like a betrayal of sorts that the writers had such little faith and willingness to show how these two characters could find a means of living as each other's sister or not - a conflict that was what made S1 so compelling and felt half-baked and prematurely 'concluded' by the end of S2.
9:50
I wonder why Cait did not ask it herself when she was gassing innocent people
@@mishan3168 ask what herself? The timestamp you linked is Ambessa being manipulative. She was not affiliated with Ambessa prior to the finale of episode 3
@Eggroll3s i don't like to pretend like it's all Ambessa. Cait was ready for violence too. And yet, thanks to plot device aka isha, it's also was wrapped up
@@mishan3168 no one is saying it's only Ambessa. In the video I state that what Caitlyn's doing is wrong
I also despise the use of "plot device". People act like it's a negative. Isha is a "plot device" but so what? She's used in an extremely well made way to further Jinx's character to heights that couldn't be seen without her
@@Eggroll3s i disagree about Isha being used well.
When in reality it just did nothing.
One damn child could not fix all jinx mental problems. Also creators completely downplayed influence Shimmer makes on brain.
THEY just where afraid to turn jinx in the real villain and wrapped up all her development. Because jinx is best girl, face of league of legends. She can't be that brutal terrorist now.
@@Eggroll3s Could you elaborate more on the specific 'heights' that you felt Jinx couldn't reach without Isha's character in the story?
Watching arcane to consume this video properly
it’s good bc Sevika hot
In French we call this video "Mauvaise foi" and "justification à outrance"
Ce n'est pas "mauvaise foi" ou "justification a outrance". Mon video est mon opinion! (I haven't taken French since basic level highschool stuff). Point is: this video is simply me explaining why I don't agree with the criticisms people make about Arcane, but I can understand why they think that way (because it's a subjective piece of art meant for interpretation). Saying it's "mauvaise foi" is also kind of incorrect in my honest opinion because my script doesn't contradict anything nor does it carry bad faith. This isn't due to peer/social pressure otherwise I would've made a video hating on season 2. I adore the show and wanted to state my personal reasons as to why I don't agree with the general thought process and that's okay.
@Eggroll3s I'm sorry I'm a bit enraged but mostly sad and I shouldnt have said that to you, you seem like a nice person.
I've been super dissapointed in this season 2. Season 1 was for me one of the best peace of art I've ever seen seen, I was so proud sand happy that they created this show because I was a fan of league of legenends universe sinds 10 years.
but then, there was the season 2 . And the more I think about season 2 the more I'm dissapointed because of the scenario and the convenient plot twist just made for the story to coninue + out of caracter things (exemple, docter revick going to a rally, an enforcer doesnt reconize jinx even if her face was in every streets and every one was searching for her because of the end of season 1 (its the kind of marvel jokes that are just there to make us laught), etc etc...)
I recomand you to watch the "Generation offended" videos about arcane to make you're own opinion on what most people dislike and find it bad in season 2 of arcane.
I'm not saying that all his argument are are all perfect, in fact some times I do think that some argument are not that good but he finds so much argument to explain why the plot and the character made no sense in season two .
The main problem on youtube is that the video that you see is recommanded by you're taste and what you like so people who liked arcane 2 will see you're video, and people who don't will most likely watch "genrartion offended"'s video. and so to make my own opinion I watched all type of video like good vs bad arcanes 2 review and in the comment and the likes you'll always see that people who share the same opinion will comment and see this video so there is no place for a "debat" because almost every one in comment secction are thinking the ssme (arcane 2 was amazing or arcane 2was bad writing)
Well Thank you for letting me post this because in some video of people liking arcane 2 my comment where deleted even if I wasnt mean or insulting at all I was just sharing my opinion.
I,ll stop here , Bonne journée
and if you want to confront you're opinion watch and/or debunk generation offended video's
PS :sorry if I made any mistakes in English
I think one extra episode would have been enough
Totally valid point. I think an extra episode to enhance what we know would've been amazing as well
Thank you. I was really surprised after watching it and then seeing the online buzz about it. It felt like people just didn't get the show? Nothing felt "out of character" and "rushed" if you paid attention to exactly what was being said or expressed during the character scenes. I feel like people aren't used to tight-knit story pacing nowadays? What I loved about s2 is that it doesn't waste the viewers time and it says a lot with very little. It's honestly MASTERFULLY told, and it feels weird to see so many people completely miss the point or not get it- and be really confused by it when honestly, it's all right there.
The weirdest complaints to me is the misinterpretation of Viktor- even by people who are usually really good at picking up hidden details. Everything about his character in Season 2 feels incredibly grounded and guided by everything shown in season 1. People see his transformation as a "corruption by the arcane" and sacrificing his ideas of evolution with unification and all that, but to me its incredibly evident that Viktor is doing what he does not because he's corrupted by the arcane, but enlightened by it. He's making conscious decisions to do what he does- and while he is influenced by others, he can still be reasoned with and turns to reasoning as often as he can. The only reason he listens to Jayce at the end is because Jayce comes back with his findings and reminds him of the things he's taken for granted. If Viktor was truly "corrupted" and lost his sense of self, I don't think he'd ever bother with listening and responding to reason. But Viktor does all of these things because he thinks he's right and he thinks he's doing what's best. That's honestly what made him such a dangerous and compelling opponent, and what makes him and Ambessa very compelling characters- and honestly, the whole cast incredibly compelling.
If masters can make mistakes I suppose it could be considered a master peace. Story trobes, world building and message are indead brilliant. Tho with the mistakes in pacing it doesn't show properly. Also they should have let Vender be dead. Come on, let the guy rest. It didnt at to what he stood for, only made it less
@@pellekuipers6856 I get why people don't like Vander being alive, I didn't like it at first either until a few days after act 2 aired. Someone who likes the show described it to me as "the most flawed 10/10 ever" which I think fits your description perfectly.
I suspected Vander was going to be fused with Singed's creation at the end of season 1, but they definitely made him a hybrid character which was a strange angle. I suppose he would otherwise have just been a random Zaunite baddie that would drive plot development anyway, so not sure how else they could have approached it.
@@Eggroll3sHaha, "the most flawed 10/10"-accurate. Yeah, I think the moment they heard they were getting one more season, they should’ve gone back to the writing room with one question: "What did Season 1 promise?" I wrote an essay about this, hehe. Promises like the polarization of Piltover and Zaun or the relationship between Vi and Jinx, or Victor and Hextech
Too much happened of screen
arcane was originally meant to be 5 seasons and it really shows. s2 just feels so crammed, the story and character developments are nowhere near as maticulous as s1. it just makes me so sad knowing we could have gotten 5 perfect seasons but we got 1 perfect season and 1 pretty good season instead. really makes me think of "what could have been" you know what im sayin?
From my understanding they were given sufficient budget for 5 seasons but they decided to use it all for two. I imagine it was something that they discussed with Fortiche, the animation studio, who has already been on this project for 9 years, at the pace they were on 3 more seasons would be roughly 10 more years, on top of that. It's possible that they didn't wanna commit all that time or couldn't do it or at the quality they wanted with the budget spread that thin over all those seasons.
8:05
Well, even though montages is trying to do work. Whole nature of Montage itself, can't let you feel emotional weight of this events.
There's no build up. Things just happening.
The montage was built up since the end of season 1. It is the cultivation of Jinx's actions and the consequence it brought on Zaun. It also acts as a buildup towards Cait's betrayal
@Eggroll3s they wrap conflict between city anyway. So it doesn't matter now
@@mishan3168 that's not really true which I cover in the video
@@Eggroll3s sure buddy
Honestly, not liking the musical montages is a you problem. (Not you, the video creator. It's a general "you")
Music videos being used for storytelling has been a staple of the music industry for decades. Hell, Michael Jackson has some of the best ever made.
I don't like musicals (with exceptions), so I don't watch them. But I'm not gonna call them bad just because I don't like them.
@@brian0057 schnee puts it great when he says that music is the epitome of what wild runes are. People complain that the music is very in the nose, but a lot of tracks carry great deeper meaning like Isha's theme. They're saying what's happening, but with the raw, unadulterated emotion that the music brings. It's pretty cool, and I love the music
I feel the tracks for each scene definitely added to the underlying message/emotion that the scene was trying to portray. They embellish the visuals you are seeing, not replace them. I feel like they did a good job.
I don't like them because 1. The music is shit, and I hate it. 2. (the more important one) They NEEDED to be expended on, but they never were. Like half the montages try to explain things that should have been half an episode by themselves.
@essurio
That still sounds like a "you" problem.
Short form storytelling is a thing. You not liking it is not a problem of the show.
I love this show. Season two had extremely high highs and memorable moments. I just feel like if we get the episode 7 Jayce flashbacks early and then Jayce dies or gets written out when he kills Victor in episode 6, we could have much more time for other characters and plots. And then a much more interesting political fight and last battle between Caitlyn and her faction and Ambessa and her faction. More Ambessa stuff. Maybe a bit more morally grey as well. I really didn’t like the big bad army shows up and then Piltover/Zaun stuff is over.
I believe the term "masterpiece" is being overused by fans. It's supposed to be reserved for works of the highest quality. While Arcane's animation and soundtrack are on that level, the writing in Season 2 is not. It's good but not quite on that level. The writers needed to delve into (A) Caitlyn's time as a dictator, (B) Vi's time as a pit-fighter, and (C) What happened between Jinx and Ekko after Ekko saved her. If these developments were properly addressed, S2 would be much closer to being a masterpiece.
I use masterpiece sparingly. Arcane to me is a masterpiece which is my opinion, hence the point of the video. Someone else made a comment about that which I agree with
@Eggroll3s Let's agree to disagree on that. For what it's worth, I believe Season 1 _is_ a masterpiece. I hope we get an "Extended Cut" of Season 2 someday.
I felt I had a lot of questions by the end of the show and some stuff wasn't fully explained. For example I thought the point of the montage at the end of episode 8 is Viktor taking his final form in Warwick's body. But then in the next episode Viktor has his own new body separate from evolved Warwick. Where tf did it come from? And in the finale after Jace and Viktor fall into a black hole or whatever and all of the golden robots souls have been sucked in too, how does evolved Warwick temporary re-animate to attack Vi? And how did Singed have the golden robot version of his daughter living with him at the end when all the golden robots souls got sucked away together? There's a lot of little things like this especially in the 3rd act that still confuse me even though I loved the season overall, and like it more the more I think about and watch videos like this
The golden version of Singed's robot is Orianna. It's not Viktor's creation, but his own, which is why it has distinct features like eyes. The Viktor transformation was him taking Warwick's blood as that was what Singed was testing and why he did that in the first place. He wanted to test Warwick's blood and regenerative abilities to help cure his daughter from her terminal disease. I feel like that was explained pretty well, but that's just me and I can't decide how people interpret it. I appreciate the comment!
@Eggroll3s Yea that makes sense, I got that he created Warwick to hopefully use his regeneration powers on his daughter eventually. But on first viewing I thought Jace fully killed Viktor's physical form when he shot him and Viktor could only exist in that ethereal plane until he got a new body, which is why I thought the point of the montage at the end of episode 8 was Viktor using Warwick's body as his final form. But it makes more sense Singed was using Warwick's regenerative blood to heal Viktor's body with the hole in his chest, and Viktor is evolving Warwick because he wanted to evolve everyone. Still kinda confused on how Singed's daughter is alive, I thought she was fully dead and he was just preserving her deceased body? And did Singed somehow reverse engineer Viktor's golden robot technology to save/ressurect her? I wish some more of this had been shown on screen or at least alluded to with dialogue. That one shot of Singed and his newly reborn daughter just opens a huge box of questions for me, and I wish the show had a few minutes to explain them on screen, especially since there was so much going on this season story and character wise and most of the plotlines were moving pretty fast except for the Black Rose
Arcane Season 2 is a mess, but I understand why you like it.
Finally, someone who gets my point from the other side. The point of this video is to let people know why I PERSONALLY THINK it's amazing and why it stands as one of my favorite pieces of media ever. It's annoying that people like to talk about objectivity when it's a subjective topic
I absolutely agree
I like that you clearly have put a lot of thought into this video, but the inherent contradiction of feeling the show is flawless or nearly flawless... then admitting the criticism of the show are valid... It's fence sitting. You liked the show a lot, but it's massively flawed. Nothing wrong with admitting it.
@@babaXIII people don't understand the point of my video. I'm not saying that I agree with the criticisms, but I understand why people have criticisms. The ultimate point is that media is subjective so this video explains why I love the show and why I don't think these are flaws. It's all about subjective interpretation and analysis. I'm trying to push forth my own 2 cents on the matter while providing comfort and cushioning for those who disagree with me and want to discuss it in the comment
You basically explained why it's not a masterpiece but somewhere between 5-7/10
@@Largentfan80 a 5-7 is such a drastic jump that this statement is meaningless. A 5 means mediocre, a 7 means it's really good. Even so, how? I explained why I liked it and have points to address common criticisms given against the season. It's not meant to convince you
@Eggroll3s yeah it's more 5-6/10
Arcane is peak
Idk guys, i played a genshin archon story right after finishing arcane season 2 and immediately realized arcane s2 is indeed a great season, all my complaints just gone after witnessing a real messy writing(genshin) 😂
Arcane season 2 is one of the best seasons in the whole of Netflix.
Like that's an achievement. lol
I still think act 3 is the weak point.
@@sagehawk12 that's valid. What makes you dislike it?
I agree. Everything up till Act 3 was pretty good with me. Bad writing or whatever is like something people can gloss over (it’s the type where you don’t notice it unless someone points it out to you). Act 3 is fine but I see why the creators originally had it to be 1 hour 30 minutes
in my opinion, Act II is the one that drags the season down.
Caitlyn flipped so fast in episode 6. All it took was Vi calling her Cupcake once and she betrayed Ambessa on the spot.
And Isha was completely unnecessary for Jinx's "redemption arc". Vander's/Warwick's revival and "death" was more than enough emotional attatchment for her to completely break down in Act III.
Isha was the Powder that never was. It was the start of Jinx's redemption through throwing her back to her lowest, only being saved by Ekko. I don't think Cait flipped quickly at all which I explain in the video. So many things point to her betrayal and Ambessa's actions go against the Cait's core principles which she outright tells Ambessa in episode 4 (a clip I also showed in full in my video)
@@reduxxedr I really think there was some corporate shenanigans by Netflix/RIOT that forced writers to cut almost 50% of the intended runtime in the finale and alot of the story was left out. IMO, It still works well enough to put the pieces together, but it definitely feels better to see them than play connect the dots with your imagination.
Season 2 outside of visuals and production values is DOGSHIT. And I mean it. I think people are literally gaslighting themselves because they really wanted it to be good. Either that or they were enchanted by visuals and music for all emotional moments. I had none. Not only they assassinated most characters and plotpoints from season 1, they made me not care about new characters either that are plot-moving placeholders, not characters. I stopped caring at episode 3 already, just wanted to see how this ends.
I love how people can't just respect other opinions and say we gaslit ourselves into liking the show. I'm a known D1 hater; I don't just like things. You also never stated any points as to why you didn't like it; it was just the fact that you didn't. It's kind of annoying how little people want to create actual dialogue by respecting opinions in this comment section.
Finally someone telling it like it is, there's so many inconsistencies you could literally write a novel about it.
I personally think Arcane season 2 sucks. VI’s character lost how she drove the plot forward with her headstrong attitude in season 1. All the characters in season 1 felt they had agency.
This goes into the character focus thing, and I think that was a critical failure. At the end of the first act, I literally felt myself lose investment in Cait and Vi and Jinx. They moved so fast, in directions I know they wouldn’t have if the plot hasn’t forced them.
Obviously the final act is terrible, but act 1 is the most offensive to me, since it felt like a slap in the face to season 1’s finale.
Vi's whole character was one of meaninglessness, which I discuss in the video. The entire point of the montage and her joining Caitlyn's strike team was one of her finding purpose. She doesn't know what she wants, she only knows how to protect others. Think about her character throughout season 1, then question what she actually does for herself. She's never selfish, she always acts on impulse based on what she thinks will benefit everyone else the most. When she loses all of this, she loses purpose. She finds that purpose again through Vander
@@Eggroll3s But again I feel like using Vander as a means for Vi to 'regain her purpose' doesn't actually evolve her character but rather return her to being again stuck only living and caring for others and in this case, it being for the resurrected father whom they have the potential of saving. Vi's arc feels incomplete to me by the end of S2 because besides the purpose of protecting her loved ones and using violence as a means of achieving that, she hasn't gained any purpose for her life outside of that. Instead, the cycle of her giving her all in protecting her loved ones to only lose them again is repeated and she is left to mourn and feel pain. Pain that feels in vain when the only progress Zaun made in their fight against Piltover's oppression was getting a single seat in counsel - one that is shrouded in doubt/scepticism and weariness by all other counsel members. And at some point, it does just feel like, what is the point of her suffering this much pain and losing nearly all of the meaningful relationships in her life? By the end of Act III in S2, i felt an emptiness for Vi, numbed by the countless loss she's forced to deal with and swallow. And why I use the term 'swallow'? Because the show does very little to even show us a glimpse of Vi mourning Vander a second time after Isha blows them all up or mourning Jinx when she believes that she died, sacrificing herself for her sister - it just feels so egregious to not show at least this much of Vi's feeling for her sister and the writers really starved me of much closure on this central part of their story.
There's a sense that she is lonelier than ever, despite having Caitlin still by her side - and that goes to show how poorly developed Caitlin and Vi's relationship felt to me. Instead of sufficiently exploring their conflict and having Vi at least be heard out by Cait, we get an unnecessarily lengthy scene of them making love in a jail cell - a scene placed so unnaturally that it is hard for me to perceive it as anything other than cheap fan service in place of what could have been an interesting interaction. The reason I believe it to be so unnatural is because I find it so hard to believe that, after seeing Jinx visibly in despair, hearing her declare a cryptic message that entails that she's made up her mind on doing something potentially harmful as Vi is locked up in a jail cell to prevent her from stopping her sister, that Vi wouldn't immediately rush to find and help Jinx when she's let out by Caitlin. I find it hard to believe that Vi would then say to Caitlin something along the lines of, 'I should have known that she wouldn't help' when the matter isn't that Jinx doesn't want to help and therefore wouldn't, (we've seen her be the 'big fat hero' previously in the season even if she did so reluctantly and Vi has seen Jinx be a caring figure to Isha) but rather that she cannot help because of the severely low mental state she's in. I would think that Vi could at least see that much in Jinx's character and have that much more faith in her especially after her adamance to Caitlin about how Jinx has changed. It then feels very out of character for Vi to not spend any time showing any more concern/worry for Jinx even if she felt that she couldn't immediately help her in that moment but instead to spend a passionate moment with Caitlin - it goes against Vi's core character trait of being somebody who fiercely loves her sister which is a primal instinct that I believe would trigger in anyone who thinks their loved one could be edging something dangerous, even if they're not somebody struggling with their fierce love and protective nature being a double-edged sword.
This is part of the reason of why I believe that the show doesn't just have an issue with not having enough time to tell its story but also that it misuses the time it does have, making for far greater disappointment than just some parts feeling rushed or paced incorrectly. And even then, 'not having enough time' is not a good enough excuse for me, as the writers would have roughly known what time they were granted and therefore should have worked smarter to fit in and see through storylines that could be told cohesively in the timeframe they were given.
@ I just disagree she lost it. I think the show just forgot Ekko and Vi had a close friendship. I can’t imagine Vi drowning in Liquor with Loris before she seeks Ekko or Jinx out. I feel her character is simplified to just be a Cait simp so then they can go with the Vanderbilt plot.
@@pphaver871 Exactly, i totally agree with this. While i understand that Caitlin was a crux for her, there were other people in Zaun whom she could have confided in especially with a friend like Ekko. For their friendship to get entirely sidelined in this season and for them to not even share one scene together and at least seek each other out from the events that concluded S1, proves that the writers made lots of short cuts in telling Vi’s story - they were childhood friends that shared in their experiences of trauma growing up in Zaun together. I found it hard to believe that Vi would succumb to alcoholism so deeply as though Caitlin was the only person who mattered to her. Her roots in the under-city and her fighting spirit for Zaun’s freedom from Piltover’s oppression has been a core value of hers from the start of S1 and all of that getting left in the dust in S2 was disappointing and made her becoming an enforcer, devoid of a believable moral struggle that we should have seen and therefore unearned. It gets worse when you consider that for most of her life she was tortured and imprisoned in Stillwater at the hands of topside’s enforcers, an experience you think the writers would at least reference to indicate just how difficult a decision Vi made in becoming an enforcer. But those topics get glazed over and the struggle feels superficial, making her decision to become an enforcer too easy and unrealistic for a character with a resolve like hers.
Season 1 is masterpiece season 2 na way far from masterpiece.
I mean if you see it's flaws and why a lot of people hate then is it a Masterpiece? for me the word masterpiece is something I'd reserve for something that is so objectively well made that even people who personally don't enjoy it can't say that it isn't. Like Pride and Prejudice is too girly for me but it's still a masterpiece. Arcane season 2 is the opposite there is really no good defence for it's flaws and people like it purely subjectively.
@@moe5020 I never said I see the flaws, that's not what this video is about. I'm stating how I understand why people feel this way, and I cannot (and will not) take that away from them. Nothing can be "objectively well made" because literature is subjective by nature. I have no idea what another show being too "girly" has to do with Arcane, but sure. You're saying that my opinion is subjective, there isn't a good defense for the flaws these people have, and my opinion is purely subjective. Like, yeah, it is. By nature, opinions are subjective. You can acknowledge positives in a work which is what you call "objectively well made" but that's not objective.
Sir, If the writer hadn't killed her, the little girl who couldn't talk, then I would have really loved this season. Now I can't even sleep and want to die every day…
I'm only partially a sir lol. RIP Isha. She was a real one
Imo the ending is the worst part of s2, especially when compared with s1. S1 had an amazing ending and S2's feels forced and it's time feels badly managed. Too much action and too little character, the exact opposite of the ending of S1. Also, vi's whole thing at the end with Warwick and jinx is so deeply stupid I can't take it seriously.
That's perfectly okay to think. I'm glad you were able to engage with the show and realize it wasn't for you unlike a lot of people
@@Eggroll3s this comment came off wrong lol. I love arcane, both seasons, I just feel s2 coulda been better.
Arcane season 2 was easily the biggest letdown in television history.. a season where all the characters have been turned to absolute shit versions of their previous selves (vi,jinx,caitlyn,heimer) or retconned to make them look far worse than before (vander,silco). Heimer was supposed to immediately give a smackdown at the council after the attack but he didnt give a shit, jinx's mental trauma was all thrown to the trash by introducing cute plot device no.2345 (aka isha) , vi turned from a person who hated piltover and wanting to follow vander's dream into a backstabbing/heartless bitch all for the sake of a shit lesbian relationship and Caitlyn turns to hitler for one episode (gassing up the undercity people) and then turns back into normal in the next with no explanation (similar to her flip flop relationship with vi). Even dead characters weren't spared in this disgrace of a season where it is now confirmed that silco and vander were obligated to protect vi and jinx and not because of chance thereby undermining not only their characters but also the incredible journey they took. Yeah this season is terrible and the only people having fun are all the gay teens writing fanfic on tumblr.
@@dfqgoing_on6899 the entirety of my video explains why I feel like a lot of this is wrong, so idk how I can respond to this other than telling you to watch the video
Also, that final statement sounds a bit homophobic, so let's not say things like that please
What I've gotten is that people who liked season 2 seem to just operate on the concept of the entire show is quote" show. Don't tell and they use that because it allows them to superimpose their own thoughts, opinions and viewpoints on what's being expressed in this show instead of this show just openly expressing these thoughts and opinions as a result of this people could just superimpose that this is good because my superimposed vision of the story has been confirmed through these visual aids and not been holistically rejected by the story telling me what it explicitly wants to say
I mean you tried to say that the fight between Vi and Jinx was just a few "scuffles" Vi set Jinx up so that Catlin could take a kill shot on her. Thats not a scuffle that is attempted murder. Jesus mercy.
The scuffles are referring to episode 5. That is after Vi's montage. This was made very clear in the context of the video and the script, and was further emphasized through my inclusion of another video using this exact same concept. I don't want to be rude to anyone in the comments, but a lot of these responses have been people watching 5 minutes of my video then commenting on everything when it's factually incorrect. I'm not saying you're doing it specifically, but it's very annoying that this is a consistent theme with UA-cam video essay or analyses. The concept that I'm "superimposing" these ideas is wrong because I'm actively looking at what the show has given me and my preexisting knowledge regarding literature and these characters while also tying it to what these characters say and how they act. That's what I did in this video. I said during my conclusion that the show is very implicit and that is a flaw to a lot of people, but I love that because it allows me to get personally involved in this world and look through the eyes of the characters. What you're saying has been addressed in the video but is ultimately wrong because I literally critique the show's usage of this in my video when talking about Vi's lack of internal tug-and-pull and how I wished, even if I was perfectly okay with what we got, there was a bit more to emphasize this.
@@Eggroll3s "The scuffles are referring to episode 5. That is after Vi's montage. This was made very clear in the context of the video and the script, and was further emphasized through my inclusion of another video using this exact same concept. " See that's the issue with your whole video. You hyper focus on one aspect/moment of the show and use it to justify a whole area of the show. Allow me to focus on Vi and the montage argument. Vi leading up to this montage has openly tried to kill her sister with her own hands, Set her sister up to assassinated by her Catlin via sniper shot, Helped Catlin use a biological weapon (Yes using the The Gray on people is a form of biological terrorism fight me on it) on her own people to go hunting for Jinx; again Vi's own sister and then finally got dumped via domestic violence. (Yes Catlin gut checking Vi with the butt of a rifle is domestic violence, again fight me on that.), and finally there's Loris the obvious Vander stand in who's there when Vi has her pit fighting Montage. He is there backing her up supporting her. Hinting at a mentor mentee relationship remaniement of her relationship with Vander Yet that goes nowhere and later one he is just killed. Yet you try to hand wave all of this away when she just bounces back when Jinx mentions Vander. When people mention her montage glosses over things, the things what I listed is what they are talking about.
This statement here " The concept that I'm "superimposing" these ideas is wrong because I'm actively looking at what the show has given me and my preexisting knowledge regarding literature and these characters while also tying it to what these characters say and how they act. That's what I did in this video." Is the biggest example of an appeal to credentialism that I'm not going to even touch this Logical fallacy of an argument.
How is this " I said during my conclusion that the show is very implicit and that is a flaw to a lot of people, but I love that because it allows me to get personally involved in this world and look through the eyes of the characters." Not the textbook example of superimposing your own thoughts, opinions and viewpoints on what's being expressed in this show instead of this show just openly expressing these thoughts and opinions?
Finally I did watch your whole video however it was nothing but unbacked up claims and opinions that i didnt mention it but Ill entertain you for a moment. Your Caitlyn and Ambessa section was almost 12 mins of you openly rejecting what was appearing on the show. You made the claim that Caitlyn didn't order Marshall Law when Both Ambessa and Maddie said she did ordered it and she didn't correct them either one of them when the claim was made. However, because you don't have a moment where you see Caitlin directly ordering the marshall law you have the wherewithal to say at 8:32-8:33 "We never see Catlin actually imposing Marshall Law" Why say this? Did you need to see Catlin out in the streets to know she is the one who implemanted Marshall Law? She is in Charge, the Marshall Law wouldn't happen without her direct say so. That was the whole reason for Ambessa to put Catlin in charge so that if the people were to blame anyone for the Marshall law it would be the person in charge i.e. Catlin.
@darklightimages so, just to confirm, what am I rejecting here? Do you understand what I was saying about Vi's character? She had no way of getting to her goal without hurting anyone close to her, so she chose the easiest route: Caitlyn's Strike Team. She's complicit and lacks identity as everything she does is for someone that isn't herself. She has no purpose or identity which is the point of the montage. No one is denying that she tried to kill Jinx, but she couldn't and stopped Caitlyn because she saw Powder in Isha and would also prefer to not kill an innocent child. This isn't me hyperfixating on one @darklightimages so, just to confirm, what am I rejecting here? Do you understand what I was saying about Vi's character? She had no way of getting to her goal without hurting anyone close to her, so she chose the easiest route: Caitlyn's Strike Team. She's complicit and lacks identity as everything she does is for someone that isn't herself. She has no purpose or identity which is the point of the montage. No one is denying that she tried to kill Jinx, but she couldn't and stopped Caitlyn because she saw Powder in Isha and would also prefer to not kill an innocent child. I didn't hyperfixate on anything, I stated the entirety of Vi's internal struggle using examples from previous episodes to explain why what happened makes sense. The irony of you mentioning how I'm fixating on one point only for you to fixate on one irrelevant point where I quite literally agree with your statement as a conclusion/opinion to a greater point is pretty weird if I'm being completely honest. Second, how is what I said an appeal to credentials? I don't think you understand that statement because I'm not discrediting you, nor am I stating anything equivalent to that or something along the lines of "well if they said it, it must be true!" I'm using preexisting knowledge that I have over years of analysis to deconstruct what I PERSONALLY think is good about the show, but I understand if people don't like certain aspects of the show. That's not superimposing, that's not appealing to any credentials, that's called an opinion. Literature is inherently subjective and the point of this video is to explain why I enjoy it even if I understand why people are criticizing it. Not everything is for everyone, not everyone will like everything. I don't understand how that message was hard to grasp for so many people in the comment section. Literature is created to be analyzed and interpreted. You saying that people "superimposing" their thoughts and ideas is a bad thing is the reason why people struggle with interpretation and meaning. Something so small can mean many different things to many different people, so I was explaining MY interpretation of the show. That's not something unique to me. Unbacked claims? I showed footage explaining everything done before Caitlyn's switch up to prove why I was saying what I was saying. Even if I entertain your idea that she did impose all of those martial laws and didn't oppose Ambessa at all (when the clip I showed is her opposing Ambessa), how does that take away from my point? The point isn't "she's good guys!" The point is "hey, this is actually very in line for her to do, here's why" with a lot of evidence to earlier episodes and even the previous season. It's really baffling how confident you are with wanting to make me look stupid only to hyperfixate on interpretations that are, frankly, just used as a bit of extra support to my claims unlike my usage of actual scenes that we see in the show where people say exactly what I'm saying.
Also, I don't know what the "fight me on it" stuff is about but it's kinda odd lmao. All I'll say is that, no, it's not domestic violence. She's not beating her, she hits her with the edge of her rifle in the liver to prevent Vi from stopping her. Your statement feels kind of disingenuous and frankly offensive to actual domestic abuse victims if I'm being honest. It's completely unneeded as an addition to support your argument as well
@@Eggroll3s Huh well I see how you are going about doing this and so I will say this. Glad you like the show.
After rewatching season 1, I finally realized that the consistent story issues of S1 should have been a red flag
I liked the video because I respect having an opinion.
Here's mine:
S1 8/10
S2 8/10 to 3/10
@@SirGamalot 3/10 is kind of insane no? I'd give a 3 to something like the new Kraven movie
If you give S2 a 3/10 then you have never seen a bad show or movie in your life
I'd give it a 4.5/10
The addition of Ambessa late in Season 1 killed the vibes of the show. Season 1 is just as flawed as Season 2. They did a 3 act structure... The 3rd act (if they follow the rules of classic storytelling) should just focus on resolution. They should NOT have added a new character in the resolution part of the story. And in season 2 they have to deal with it.
Additionally minor characters in Season 1 were given major character arcs. It was so convuloted! Minor characters should stay as minor characters. They bit off more than they can chew.
Season 1 flaws are greatly overlooked because it was a fresh story.
@@CzarsSalad never heard anyone criticize season 1 before to be honest; very unique outlook. The show was very clearly meant to be 2 seasons, so Ambessa's addition doesn't remove anything from the preexisting episodes, but further adds upon them and the characterization of Mel/the other Piltovans. It adds tension and provides backstory as to why Mel is how she is and why she's in Piltover. It also shows how she gets her manipulative side which I think is an amazing touch. Ambessa takes existing characters to heights they could not reach writing wise, and she herself is very well written
@@Eggroll3sthey did a 3 act structure of Season 1. The 3rd act was supposed to be used to RESOLVE the story. It's a fundamental rule in storytelling that you don't introduce a new character in the 3rd act.
@@CzarsSalad okay, this was impossible to address because your comment was completely different before you edited it and had way less information. You can introduce characters in an act 3 setting if they're important to the 2nd season, which she was. When people say act 3, they don't mean a typical act 3. Season 1 is halfway through the story, not a conclusion. Saying that they added a new character during the resolution is objectively incorrect. On top of this, which minor characters got big arcs exactly?
Edit: just wanted to add something to emphasize my point: do you think making the conflict even worse was the resolution? Jinx blew up the council before the story's resolution could've been made
@@Eggroll3sbut the thing is, they presented season 1 as a 3 act structure. They should've treated it as is.
When I first saw it I was so confused as to how the hell Ambessa would fit into the whole structure.
They should have added at least 6 more episodes in Season 1... Make it a 5 act story. Much like how The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo was told.
Had they focused only on at least 1 or 2 main characters, Jinx/Vi or Cait season 1 would have been better. They have so MAIN characters introduced in the 1st season and yet they only planned for 2 seasons. 5 Seasons wont even be enough.
Breaking Bad (imo The greatest show ever) took 5 1/2 seasons to complete Walt's arc. One main character.
I actually prefer Arcane Season 2 tbh
This is cope bro 💀
S2 is really terribly written.
@@jamida5287 why do you think so?
Thank you.
Wake up.
@@LeylaSKDR good morning
Femboys love this series 😂 yall simp left and right for this trash being dumb must be nice
S2 is not a masterpiece. You are wrong. I understand why you like it, but I just can't.
@@nickl9461 I think it's disingenuous to say that you understand why I like it, then say I'm wrong. I'm open for discussion, but I don't think it's right to talk in an objective way about subjective material
Your opinion is just as good as any of us. You don't have the monopoly on the meaning of masterpiece. You're one of those retards
@CzarsSalad if they didn't like a tv show, that's fine, no need to use slurs. They can explain why or not, I don't really care. It's up to the other party to reciprocate dialogue
My man, you need a lot less copium in your system.
@@ergovoks5200 how is it copium? I wrote an entire script explaining why I thought this way and stated in the video itself that I understood why people had gripes with the show. The whole point of the video is me explaining why I, specifically, love the season, addressing common criticisms to do that. I'm not trying to convince anyone that they're dumb for thinking differently, but relating to them by telling them that I understand why they think this season was a letdown even if I did not
I feel the explanations made sense. I'm interested if you saw the context provided pointed another direction(maybe nowhere) or just didn't care to see it.
stop coping
@@myplace4play how is it cope if I made an entire video explaining why I think it's good while saying that I understand people who don't like it? That sounds like a constructed point, not cope
This is the most stupid comment. The problem with Arcane is that it birthed to the most retarded viewers ever.
@CzarsSalad let's not use ableist slurs in my comment section please. People can talk however they'd like, as bad as it is. I'll handle their discussions if they get too negative or inappropriate, but please keep any foul language to a minimum
@@Eggroll3s You didn't adress major problems like character assasination (the only character who survived writers' incopmpitance was Marcus, and only because he's as dead as possible, death didn't save Silco of this fate though)
@@myplace4play who do they character assassinate exactly?
I think a lot of the chaos of season 2 can be explained as a result of the corrupting force of the arcane on the world. The arcane is supposed to corrupt and accelerate everything towards chaos, war, and destruction, so all the intimate character focus of season 1 is supposed to be destroyed and replaced with insanity. All the characters are in some sense corrupted, hence why they make such strange decisions seemingly on a whim. This doesn't excuse everything about season 2, but it explains a lot of its chaotic elements. People miss the intimacy of season 1 and its pacing, but season 1 also foreshadowed that the Arcane would "lay waste to civilizations." In terrible times, people aren't allowed to just be themselves. They are forced to react to the circumstance and become something they wouldn't otherwise be. I still think the whole "there is beauty in imperfections" quote is terrible.