the point of the post is not maelor, maelor is just an example (cleverly actually being a small change since there were way more egregious changes later), he is talking about all changes, “None of that is essential, I suppose… but all of it does serve a purpose, it all helps to tie the story lines together, so one thing follows another in a logical and convincing manner” he is literally saying the show is now illogical and unconvincing, because they removed all context and motivations which is what is great about his writing.
The worst part of blood and cheese is also Helaena’s non chalant attitude afterwards. I can believe that she was in shock but to say “I ought not to be sad” makes no sense even if they wanna paint her as “different”.
The specificity of Nettles versus what the show is adapting is huge and it kills me that people treat them as more or less interchangeable. Its not the character itself, its the character and a catalyst for Rhaeneyra being a jealous desperate woman, which is a road the show just refuses to even look at.
She could totally have the same sense of vengeance for Rhaena though - she’ll likely be pissed at her for abandoning her kids and blame her for the trouble they’re gonna run into. I personally loved this change bc 1) it fleshes out Rhaena better and makes her a more relevant character in a story that already has a ton of characters and 2) bc I just never really cared for nettles. She legit just flies off once she’s served as the plot device. At least with Rhaena, it stays in the family and feels like more of a betrayal in a show that’s all about family betrayal
@@TMish73829 nettles is way more of a character than rhaena ever was , why not just lose her? You're right Nettles is principally a plot device, but without her that device is absent and the plot suffers. Rhaena does not serve the same purpose. The dramatic energy in the nettles saga is sexual jealousy. She's an old lady and her husband and cavorting with brown sugar, the fact she's a dragon rider further adds to her insecurity.
I was gut punched when i realized they were doing the whole New Sheep Stealer Plot Sans Nettles, is because they simply don't want to turn Rhaneyra into a jealous, fat, angry woman.
Sorry but George doesn’t owe you anything. I know we all want the WOW, me included but to say “I don’t care what he has to say until he finishes his book” is dumb
Not sure about others,but I now only watch and subscribe to youtube channels that do longer videos. Too much click bait. Would have gladly watched you guys go on for 50min or more.
"He should get in the writer's room". Yes, we would love that, he would love that. The show would benefit immensely from it. Ryan and Sarah will never allow it. It is quite visible their ego regarding the control they have on this story would never allow for George to fix it. The after bts sequences have laid that bare, just as it did for DnD. They would have to admit that George obviously is a better writer and with the accolades they have received on the back of George's labor, I don't see that happening. Unless they get completely snubbed at awards season (something I unfortunately think is a possibility) and HBO takes their head from their ass to zap that miserable writing room while opening their pockets, I see danger. The book lovers may be a tiny fraction of the fans, but we are mighty and understand what works in this world. We were warning everyone season 5 of GOT, that George was definitely being pushed out without even having confirmation and that we were in for a bumpy ride. Everyone told us to shut up, but then somehow like magic we were right. We will always be right when it comes to this universe and what we know audiences will enjoy from it.
George has had the same arc with the show adaptations as the fans. Initial love and acceptance followed by trauma in the end for GoT and now from glazing the first season of HotD to being overly critical of season 2 in fear of being hurt again.
House of the dragon neglects alot of things that happens in fire and blood the fact that there was battles, more alliances that daemon has made also jacaerys i mean their could have been 5-6 seasons if they told the story right they overlook their own storylines that they created... they skip and minimize, take away and add things that doesnt move the story at all and makes no sense,like why would rhaenys burst through the dragonpit to kill innocents and not burn the ones she would fight later when rhaenys was never in kingslanding it was just unimpactful and they never again mention it, they doing the same with rhaenyra in making her desperate and calling her cruel when its actually just obvious that the dragon would have his fun i mean she basically presented dinner to vermithor only for one rider to claim him and WHEN SHE GETS THE DRAGONSEEDS SHE JUST WANTS TO SHOW THEM OFF, making her stupid because she gives dragons for no reason THE SHOW LOVES TELLING US HOW POINTLESS THIS WAR IS its annoying to see so much weakness and flipped chracters.. that aremuch more weakened and emotional in all the wrong ways i mean extra vulnerable i think it woupd be better if rhaenyra and alicent sat back because the stuff they are doing doesnt help anything like making them keep on sueing for peace yet spitting in each other face about how they cant stop the war because its gone to far 😂 but please someone tell me why the showrunners are doing this because in doing this it makes the characters more weak and they actually give us more reason why a man should rule this show is so backwards, rhaenyra is desperate to put all them people in one place therefore she is cruel 😂 just for vermithor to burn them all and accept only one rider, that ran thru budget with unnecessary scenes of the dragons as DAEMON SAID " THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO USE THE DRAGONS.. BETTER WAYS".. they minimize daemon just name him lord protector and his motivations is for his family, the realm, and the war he never stayed in harrenhall for a remainder of his time in the riverlands he actually did more than just sit there.. but they want him to be just dark instead of light and dark... they are weakening and minimizing the story and the characters they are mentioning how war is horriboe and bad and the war will be bloody and unlike any other that they have given it to the dragons i mean stating the bloody obvious they did it with all of them with rhaenyra considering to give up her claim to rule and whatsbeen hers since she was a little girl before aegon because she the oldest and more of targaryen blood than her half siblings and rhaenyra fears kingslaying she wouldnt harm them THIS IS WHY THE GREENS FEAR DAEMON TARGARYEN AND LORD PROTECTOR OF THE REALM BECAUSE HE IS RHAENYRA GREATEST WEAPON sackings of duskendale by king aegon II before going to rooks rest i think they neglected this because they want to show aegon as a fool and ignorant of his council what because he wasnt taught? They doing the same with rhaenyra because she was taught to know castles and names she isnt been taught right despite having the most powerful people on her side being strategic and cunning and has the most dangerous and vile member in their house as her husband.. they making it seem as without daemon rhaenyra would have faltered i admit daemon is an great advantage but she also had alot of advantages to her daemon was neccessary and fit for this war him and rhaenys and corlys lived one last time for this war.. aegon has the most brilliant minds on his side and daemon takes stone hedge from the greens ... i also dislike that i didnt get famous dialogue from the characters.. like otto saying " you only lost the one eye. How could you be so blind". The fact that aemond thought he would be (thanked for delivering first blood) which is why otto was angry because he wanted to make rhaenyra and daemon to be seen as the OFFENDERS INSTEAD OF DEFENDERS of their claim GREAT THING ABOUT THE BOOK THEY DON'T HAVE FAVORTISM OR MAKE US CHOOSE THEY LET US COME TO OUR OWN CONCLUSION.. Daemon also wanted the greens to have the first act.. the books also make things clear that the show minimizes like when heirs are killed and innocent boys and also the greens are at fault for rhaenyra miscarriage "they killed my only daughter and they will pay for it" "only one would rule, a childs death could cause the world to burn".. i understand George criticism on the show about maelor because his death does unravel a load of events.. like haelenas suicide..
Here's a comment for the algorithm. Really enjoy your conversations. When it comes to binging the show I think season 2 will hopefully be brill at setting up what's to come. If they had rushed I do not think non book readers would have gotten to care about the world and the deaths to come as much.
21:41 hit the nail on the head. It makes so much sense to that George would view adaptations of his work as his legacy over the books, because he suddenly found success and doesn’t have to work as hard anymore to to finish them.
After the way Season 8 played out… I’m honestly baffled yall still care about this universe at all. The moment the Night King was killed and all his minions died Phantom Menace style, halfway through the FINAL SEASON after 8 YEARS of buildup and they didn’t even make it past Winterfell?!?? That’s when I had a horrific epiphany: “Oh wow! Ok, I get it now. This whole universe is just pointless nonsense. It has no meaning beyond who sits in the pointy chair. All this lore and history has no purpose. GOT is 8 seasons of torture porn. Which means there’s no reason to get invested in this universe or its characters EVER AGAIN.” I haven’t looked back since. I’m stunned that so many people are still “chasing the dragon”. Stan Marsh should’ve warned yall: You don’t EVER catch the dragon
I'd love to know the real reason he deleted it. Whether personally felt he was too harsh after the fact or if saying Helaena ends herself for no good reason is breaking NDA since references Ryan's plans
Will be interesting to see what comes from all of this. This clearly is a calculated move by George and puts HBO in an interesting situation. You can argue whether this was a good move or not on George’s end. I think he is thinking more about his legacy and doesn’t want another poorly received show. George could have chosen to go full scorched earth but he didn’t. He said enough to show his displeasure, it legitimizes the concerns that fans had, and it warns of other possibly bad things to come. It’s a warning as much as a veiled threat that he could have done more damage if he chose. I think people are too fixated that he only chose to talk about Maelor in this post. He said a while ago he was going to do a post specifically on Blood and Cheese and would make other posts about other things he didn’t like. I’m not sure if those other posts will happen now due to how this was received. By the post being deleted, it taps into the Streisand Effect where the information that is deleted or censored increases the public awareness of the thing. His displeasure, big or small, is out in the public and we know this and that cannot be taken back. HBO can either make the necessary changes to appease fans and by extension George, or continue on with what they are doing and get backlash. I don’t know if another Song of Ice and Fire series can afford to have another controversial show with poor writing. I’m hoping something positive comes from this, but who knows. HBO is going to do what they can to keep making money and make the show successful. I’m hoping George’s frustrations also will light a fire and help him finish this series. Most, if not all, these headaches would have been avoided had he finished the series and he could more involved with these series without the added pressure of finishing and watching his work devolve.
If George really cared about his legacy he would have finished the whole series by now. He got fame and recognition like he always wanted and now doesn’t have to do anything else ever because he has hbo to do it for him. He is of course free to live his life the way he wants but that doesn’t mean I have to respect him for it.
What’s strange about the blog post is how much he focuses on the writers and Condal, specifically, as if these were creatively informed decisions. Martin himself acknowledges that these changes come from budgetary and practical shooting considerations, yet clearly has something personal against Condal as if Condal himself isn’t answering to executives.
Each to their own, but you guys are waaayyyyy over reaching with the “GRRM is so concerned with the legacy of his stories because he has no children” angle I also find this comment in kinda bad taste, implying his lack of children is causing him to be petty and catty and bitchy- sounds like something JD Vance might say!
the point of the post is not maelor, maelor is just an example (cleverly actually being a small change since there were way more egregious changes later), he is talking about all changes, “None of that is essential, I suppose… but all of it does serve a purpose, it all helps to tie the story lines together, so one thing follows another in a logical and convincing manner”
he is literally saying the show is now illogical and unconvincing, because they removed all context and motivations which is what is great about his writing.
"A baby on set would be too stressful" Hire a showrunner who can handle that then.
The worst part of blood and cheese is also Helaena’s non chalant attitude afterwards. I can believe that she was in shock but to say “I ought not to be sad” makes no sense even if they wanna paint her as “different”.
The specificity of Nettles versus what the show is adapting is huge and it kills me that people treat them as more or less interchangeable. Its not the character itself, its the character and a catalyst for Rhaeneyra being a jealous desperate woman, which is a road the show just refuses to even look at.
She could totally have the same sense of vengeance for Rhaena though - she’ll likely be pissed at her for abandoning her kids and blame her for the trouble they’re gonna run into. I personally loved this change bc 1) it fleshes out Rhaena better and makes her a more relevant character in a story that already has a ton of characters and 2) bc I just never really cared for nettles. She legit just flies off once she’s served as the plot device. At least with Rhaena, it stays in the family and feels like more of a betrayal in a show that’s all about family betrayal
@@TMish73829 nettles is way more of a character than rhaena ever was , why not just lose her? You're right Nettles is principally a plot device, but without her that device is absent and the plot suffers.
Rhaena does not serve the same purpose. The dramatic energy in the nettles saga is sexual jealousy. She's an old lady and her husband and cavorting with brown sugar, the fact she's a dragon rider further adds to her insecurity.
Why is it always follow the butterflies? Why can't it be follow the spiders!
As soon as buddy on the left said he didn’t care what George says I tapped out immediately
Thanks for commenting on the way out, helps engagement :)
I don’t really give a shit what Martin says unless it’s written down in a book title “The Winds of Winter” either honestly.
@@caseyhart4999 I didn’t even see u say anything at all 🤷🏽♂️
@@rawreviews4457 uhhhhhh? You responded to my comment? Surely you saw the comment?
@@caseyhart4999 nah I just see the blabbering of plebeians no real input …
I was gut punched when i realized they were doing the whole New Sheep Stealer Plot Sans Nettles, is because they simply don't want to turn Rhaneyra into a jealous, fat, angry woman.
I bet Gorge meant to go off chronologically and Maelor was just the first point that he made. He was supposed to make multiple blog posts
Sorry but George doesn’t owe you anything. I know we all want the WOW, me included but to say “I don’t care what he has to say until he finishes his book” is dumb
Ok, then by that same token Condell doesn’t owe him a faithful adaption.
We hope you enjoy our rambles and tangents. This was cut down from an almost 50 minute chat haha
That's why we are here
Not sure about others,but I now only watch and subscribe to youtube channels that do longer videos. Too much click bait. Would have gladly watched you guys go on for 50min or more.
"He should get in the writer's room".
Yes, we would love that, he would love that. The show would benefit immensely from it. Ryan and Sarah will never allow it. It is quite visible their ego regarding the control they have on this story would never allow for George to fix it. The after bts sequences have laid that bare, just as it did for DnD.
They would have to admit that George obviously is a better writer and with the accolades they have received on the back of George's labor, I don't see that happening. Unless they get completely snubbed at awards season (something I unfortunately think is a possibility) and HBO takes their head from their ass to zap that miserable writing room while opening their pockets, I see danger.
The book lovers may be a tiny fraction of the fans, but we are mighty and understand what works in this world. We were warning everyone season 5 of GOT, that George was definitely being pushed out without even having confirmation and that we were in for a bumpy ride. Everyone told us to shut up, but then somehow like magic we were right. We will always be right when it comes to this universe and what we know audiences will enjoy from it.
Ive had it in my head for a long time now that George has finished winds and dreams, and will release them posthumously when he dies.
George has had the same arc with the show adaptations as the fans. Initial love and acceptance followed by trauma in the end for GoT and now from glazing the first season of HotD to being overly critical of season 2 in fear of being hurt again.
House of the dragon neglects alot of things that happens in fire and blood the fact that there was battles, more alliances that daemon has made also jacaerys i mean their could have been 5-6 seasons if they told the story right they overlook their own storylines that they created... they skip and minimize, take away and add things that doesnt move the story at all and makes no sense,like why would rhaenys burst through the dragonpit to kill innocents and not burn the ones she would fight later when rhaenys was never in kingslanding it was just unimpactful and they never again mention it, they doing the same with rhaenyra in making her desperate and calling her cruel when its actually just obvious that the dragon would have his fun i mean she basically presented dinner to vermithor only for one rider to claim him and WHEN SHE GETS THE DRAGONSEEDS SHE JUST WANTS TO SHOW THEM OFF, making her stupid because she gives dragons for no reason THE SHOW LOVES TELLING US HOW POINTLESS THIS WAR IS its annoying to see so much weakness and flipped chracters.. that aremuch more weakened and emotional in all the wrong ways i mean extra vulnerable i think it woupd be better if rhaenyra and alicent sat back because the stuff they are doing doesnt help anything like making them keep on sueing for peace yet spitting in each other face about how they cant stop the war because its gone to far 😂 but please someone tell me why the showrunners are doing this because in doing this it makes the characters more weak and they actually give us more reason why a man should rule this show is so backwards, rhaenyra is desperate to put all them people in one place therefore she is cruel 😂 just for vermithor to burn them all and accept only one rider, that ran thru budget with unnecessary scenes of the dragons as DAEMON SAID " THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO USE THE DRAGONS.. BETTER WAYS".. they minimize daemon just name him lord protector and his motivations is for his family, the realm, and the war he never stayed in harrenhall for a remainder of his time in the riverlands he actually did more than just sit there.. but they want him to be just dark instead of light and dark... they are weakening and minimizing the story and the characters they are mentioning how war is horriboe and bad and the war will be bloody and unlike any other that they have given it to the dragons i mean stating the bloody obvious they did it with all of them with rhaenyra considering to give up her claim to rule and whatsbeen hers since she was a little girl before aegon because she the oldest and more of targaryen blood than her half siblings and rhaenyra fears kingslaying she wouldnt harm them THIS IS WHY THE GREENS FEAR DAEMON TARGARYEN AND LORD PROTECTOR OF THE REALM BECAUSE HE IS RHAENYRA GREATEST WEAPON sackings of duskendale by king aegon II before going to rooks rest i think they neglected this because they want to show aegon as a fool and ignorant of his council what because he wasnt taught? They doing the same with rhaenyra because she was taught to know castles and names she isnt been taught right despite having the most powerful people on her side being strategic and cunning and has the most dangerous and vile member in their house as her husband.. they making it seem as without daemon rhaenyra would have faltered i admit daemon is an great advantage but she also had alot of advantages to her daemon was neccessary and fit for this war him and rhaenys and corlys lived one last time for this war.. aegon has the most brilliant minds on his side and daemon takes stone hedge from the greens ... i also dislike that i didnt get famous dialogue from the characters.. like otto saying " you only lost the one eye. How could you be so blind". The fact that aemond thought he would be (thanked for delivering first blood) which is why otto was angry because he wanted to make rhaenyra and daemon to be seen as the OFFENDERS INSTEAD OF DEFENDERS of their claim GREAT THING ABOUT THE BOOK THEY DON'T HAVE FAVORTISM OR MAKE US CHOOSE THEY LET US COME TO OUR OWN CONCLUSION.. Daemon also wanted the greens to have the first act.. the books also make things clear that the show minimizes like when heirs are killed and innocent boys and also the greens are at fault for rhaenyra miscarriage "they killed my only daughter and they will pay for it" "only one would rule, a childs death could cause the world to burn".. i understand George criticism on the show about maelor because his death does unravel a load of events.. like haelenas suicide..
Burg
One of us is Burg, the other is Unbeerd. One can only tell the truth while the other lies
@@burgunbeerd 😯
Here's a comment for the algorithm. Really enjoy your conversations. When it comes to binging the show I think season 2 will hopefully be brill at setting up what's to come. If they had rushed I do not think non book readers would have gotten to care about the world and the deaths to come as much.
21:41 hit the nail on the head. It makes so much sense to that George would view adaptations of his work as his legacy over the books, because he suddenly found success and doesn’t have to work as hard anymore to to finish them.
After the way Season 8 played out… I’m honestly baffled yall still care about this universe at all.
The moment the Night King was killed and all his minions died Phantom Menace style, halfway through the FINAL SEASON after 8 YEARS of buildup and they didn’t even make it past Winterfell?!?? That’s when I had a horrific epiphany:
“Oh wow! Ok, I get it now. This whole universe is just pointless nonsense. It has no meaning beyond who sits in the pointy chair. All this lore and history has no purpose. GOT is 8 seasons of torture porn. Which means there’s no reason to get invested in this universe or its characters EVER AGAIN.”
I haven’t looked back since. I’m stunned that so many people are still “chasing the dragon”.
Stan Marsh should’ve warned yall:
You don’t EVER catch the dragon
I'd love to know the real reason he deleted it. Whether personally felt he was too harsh after the fact or if saying Helaena ends herself for no good reason is breaking NDA since references Ryan's plans
Kings!!!
I'm not gonna lie, I only just figured out that you guys aren't actually called Burgun and Beerd. lmaoo
Will be interesting to see what comes from all of this. This clearly is a calculated move by George and puts HBO in an interesting situation. You can argue whether this was a good move or not on George’s end. I think he is thinking more about his legacy and doesn’t want another poorly received show. George could have chosen to go full scorched earth but he didn’t. He said enough to show his displeasure, it legitimizes the concerns that fans had, and it warns of other possibly bad things to come. It’s a warning as much as a veiled threat that he could have done more damage if he chose. I think people are too fixated that he only chose to talk about Maelor in this post. He said a while ago he was going to do a post specifically on Blood and Cheese and would make other posts about other things he didn’t like. I’m not sure if those other posts will happen now due to how this was received. By the post being deleted, it taps into the Streisand Effect where the information that is deleted or censored increases the public awareness of the thing. His displeasure, big or small, is out in the public and we know this and that cannot be taken back. HBO can either make the necessary changes to appease fans and by extension George, or continue on with what they are doing and get backlash. I don’t know if another Song of Ice and Fire series can afford to have another controversial show with poor writing. I’m hoping something positive comes from this, but who knows. HBO is going to do what they can to keep making money and make the show successful. I’m hoping George’s frustrations also will light a fire and help him finish this series. Most, if not all, these headaches would have been avoided had he finished the series and he could more involved with these series without the added pressure of finishing and watching his work devolve.
If George really cared about his legacy he would have finished the whole series by now. He got fame and recognition like he always wanted and now doesn’t have to do anything else ever because he has hbo to do it for him. He is of course free to live his life the way he wants but that doesn’t mean I have to respect him for it.
Twilight movie has a really good cgi baby, just sayin
You imprinted on my Daughter???
make a podcast about future got project like aegon conquest and 10.000 ships
please make more got content
Y'all should re write the show and let us know how you'd do it!!
What’s strange about the blog post is how much he focuses on the writers and Condal, specifically, as if these were creatively informed decisions.
Martin himself acknowledges that these changes come from budgetary and practical shooting considerations, yet clearly has something personal against Condal as if Condal himself isn’t answering to executives.
Even Fire and Blood isn't technically finished. It's one of two books.
Each to their own, but you guys are waaayyyyy over reaching with the “GRRM is so concerned with the legacy of his stories because he has no children” angle
I also find this comment in kinda bad taste, implying his lack of children is causing him to be petty and catty and bitchy- sounds like something JD Vance might say!