Victron MPPT charge controller exploded
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- Опубліковано 15 тра 2024
- Taking a faulty Victron MPPT charge controller apart, trying to get the top off.
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I hear you when it comes to youtube going down the toilet at a rapid pace. Sadly I don't see any other platform taking it's place anytime soon.
Comments also get deleted randomly, or never appear, which is a long standing bug.
Thanks for putting these videos out there! It's a shame that repairability was obviously the very last concern while they were designing this. From what I've seen the failure rate on these is quite low, but still I will ping the Dutch owner/ceo about future repairability in the victron forums. He's very active there and they very much take user input into account while developing their products, so who knows...
It certainly is a shame that the potting is so engineered as to make the unit unserviceable, cheers.
Seems like youtube wants to get rid of the small channels, because they dont generate money and need a lot of file storage!
@@SurvivalSquirrel and so continuous "will it start videos" and a race to the bottom. Cheers
yeh they charge an arm and leg and making them near impossible for simple repairs now
Things have changed over the years, for the worse, cheers
This victron mppt is designed to buy and scrap. There are many other companies that is easy to open and repair his inwerters or mppt. Studer for example.
I've seen Studer equipment, very solid, cheers
victron totally made it unrepairable.
I think it's time for the angle grinder on the next one, cheers
Maybe drilling the bolts on the 14 mosfets attached to the black heat sink so that they are released. The thread in heat sink will be damaged so a solution to fix that will be needed.
Then once the black heat sink is removed desolder the two coils and the 8 capacitors that are potted.
Victron offers 5 years warranty so I guess they are confident about their design and if it fails during warranty then they will just replace the entire device.
This are 3000W+ DC-DC converters and even with their excellent 98% efficiency it is still over 60W of heat that they need to deal with thus the reason for potting the inductor and capacitors. It also help with vibrations but main reason to pot the inductors is cooling.
They could have designed so that is repairable but the extra cost of doing that is probably higher than just replacing a few units that fail within the 5 years warranty period.
Hi, good idea, it may be that the fault could be just in the FETs and then small through bolts could be used giving a little flexibility with placement. I think some investigation is required to find out why the generation is not getting through. The fuses are not blown so it may not be the FETs. Cheers
Can probably put some screws on the transistors and glue them so it doesn't spin and carfully assemble and put nuts on the heat sink side at the end, just keep in mind any isolation between transistor and screws if it is allready insulated between the heat sink
Hi Andy,
I had a much better OPINION of victron before watching your expose !
the customer's RIGHT to repair is impossible the way victron has assembled their charge controllers
disappointed
thank You
COOP
...
Exactly and maybe Victron know that there is a critical fault that is not repairable even if you gain access, cheers
After watching your first teardown a while ago, purchased renogy MPPT .
Victron charge a premium for their MPPT controller then slap you in the face.
UA-cam has some value, be a shame to loose the wealth of stored knowledge, cheers
I was struggling to see properly as Im on a phone but were the FETs attached to the heat sink with rivets or screws? If rivets, I would drill them all out and then that would give access to desolder the coils and caps. I have 3 of the 100/50 mppts and a 3kva multiplus.. they have always been very reliable, even the single second hand one I have. They are pushing the full 50A most days.
They are screwed in place, but from the inside. Heat is the slow killer, who knows what these have been subjected to. A small external fan on a time switch will help to make yours last longer, cheers
Thats why I bought SRNE MPPTs MAserie, they have huge passive cooling body and can be took apart easy if they fail, whats unlikely, cause I mounted 3 pcs 40mm PC fans underneath powered via a temperature switch.
Interesting and yes I use small snail fans controlled with a time switch, cheers
If it gets hot in use put a fan on the passive radiator.
OR you can make a chimney over it so all the hot air rising will pick up speed and improve the passive heat sink without any extra powered fans
Hi, yes small external fans blowing air up the heat sink, all controlled by a plug in timer. Only runs when the panels are generating, cheers
I like to use 3 speed USB fans to cool any chargers that get hot.
@@baneverything5580 Yes, it's important to keep your electronics cool. With an external you can control it and see it working, cheers
Perhaps before opening, cutaway the front case carefully to isolate the moulded portions for the coils? Digging in the dark to try though!
I'm guessing some of the switching fets have shorted.
Yes, I was working on the success from removing the top of a smaller unit. The other not working unit will have the top cut to bits, using this top as a template and hopefully giving precise measurements. The I can get to the screws that hold the FETs to the heat sink, cheers
Just more scrap electronics.
This is disgraceful engineering design and completely contrary to the spirit of repairability.
Steve, I'm totally with you on this one, they should be ashamed, it's all profit driven from a company that at one time was seen as the leader. What next? a timing chip to kill electronics after so many working hours, just like makita batteries, cheers
@@TheInfoworksjust had this pop up in my UA-cam feed
ua-cam.com/video/gC9EFUHKxhg/v-deo.htmlsi=l-VRqrjjpJ0S8XCx
Tricky Dicky has managed to get his Victron apart by screwing the unit down then applying heat from a heat gun and progressively praising the lid off.
They do this because they want to cool the coils, this is okay, but it could be done in a more repairable way.
This Victron controller are to big in my opinion.
I do it in an other way, I build my own MPPT-controller right now, but I will use one MPPT-device per Panel.
The Battery is a LiFePO4 battery (48V/280Ah ) with 16 cells in line and it have this voltages:
40V if it is totally depleted.
48V empty
51.2V ideal empty condition
52.8V (nominal voltage)
55.2V ideal full
58.4V (100% full)
So the voltage of the Battery should be between 51,2V and 55.2V in ideal conditions.
(In winter at -20°C without load the PV-module can have 57.4V, but the battery protection stops charging at 55.2V and this is not a problem. If I have to much Energy, I can send it to the grid or use it for heating or I waste the energy over a big load.)
The PV-module has during MPPT-conditions around 39-48V @ 10A, so I use a StepUp converter which can drive much more than 10A and it must make nearly nothing, only increase the voltage a bit. With synchronous switching it will have nearly no losses and the size of the PCB is around 5x5cm.
Because of the Step-Up converter design no current can flow back into the panel, so you can put every panel in parallel without that you would get any damage because of a shadow over one panel.
I have here 20 PV-modules, every MPPT-module will cost about 10 or 15€. (MosFET, driver, µController, PCB, housing, wireless module) This are 300€ without the cost of the work to build it, only the components.
They are all connected over little wireless modules to a concentrator, so that I can read the temperature, voltage and current of each one and put it onto the home-website/database.
- I can temporarily short circuit the PV-module if necessary, but because the microcontroller is using the voltage from the PV-module, the short circuit have to be released after some minutes for some milliseconds. I could add a 1F goldcap capacitor to increase the time. If I set the lowside MosFET on and go into deep sleep, then it can last for many hours.
- The MPPT-module has a very low quiescence current, so that the battery will be loaded, even if the light conditions are very low, like in the winter.
To repair it I can read the Debug- and log-data over USB or the wireless-modules, then I can understand what was/is going on.
The housing is a little aluminium case which can be opened very easy. I remove the two screws which are holding the two MosFETs against the Aluminium, remove the two screws of the side-plate and then I can slide out the PCB.
Hi, this video has certainly brought people together on this issue. You are right in having multiple parallel controllers. Heat is the killer and small separate units built over spec is the answer, cheers
Thank you sir. What is the point of fuses is you cannot get to them?
I suppose they are there to help to reduce the risk of fire, and to make the unit unusable, cheers
Basically they are there as a safety because these things are typically connected to batteries capable of pushing hundreds, sometimes thousands of amps if they get shorted. Since the output current is 100% regulated by the micro-controller, the fuses should never blow unless something truly critical has failed and shorted inside the unit.
There is a second safety circuit in there but I'm not sure where... Victrons have a clamp feature on the solar input terminals to short them in-case a regulation failure causes the input voltage to pass-through to the battery, putting excessive voltage on the battery. Some of the FETs are probably dedicated to that purpose. The rest are part of the Buck circuit(s) (looks like there are two separate buck circuits in parallel inside the unit).
-Matt
Great content the truth of maintainability
Exactly, thanks for the comment, cheers
You have to desolder them before ripping it apart
Yes, but I'm just working out which side of the board I need to get at for fault finding, cheers
subbed m8. thanks. bought a 35$ 30A mppt controller on aliexp by EASUN, was considering viktron but atleast i can take this one apart... feels like about 35$ worth of copper inside so it cant be that bad.
Really difficult to know where to allocate hard won funds. I've found keeping units cool and not running too hard helps with reliability, cheers
I have an OAE 60 amp MPPT for 12v to 48v systems with a max of 150v input. It weighs about 15 pounds or more. I don`t know how to program one and the manual is badly translated but I set it to 12v for my 300ah battery and chose the lithium ion setting. It only has float and it`s auto set to 13.80 volts which is the cutoff voltage of my LiFeP04 charger. But this can be changed.
I ordered a Victron 100/30 to raise the wattage going into my battery because the controllers force us to use 10 gauge cables and I can only charge at 300watts with my setup right now using 12v. I need about 600 watts for my 400w window air conditioner after the next hurricane and to easily recharge my portable power stations for my freezer and dorm fridge.
Mighty big hunk of junk scrap. Great Video on those chargers. Victron needs to change their mind set. Those chargers get way too hot.
Just goes to prove the 2nd rule of solar, don't run equipment above 60% of capacity. I've got another and this time the cover gets cut into little bits, cheers
Nonsense, I regularly run my 250s at max, for hours, days .... yes they get hot, and yes they'll derate to self protect, but if you cook them with high ambient, or even direct heat they'll not be happy.
Why weren't these returned for investigation and warranty replacement ?
@@SeanMoore2008 Brexit rules
@@SeanMoore2008 Capacitors fail regularly when cooked, cheers
i have an Victron MPPT 150/85. Oversized for my 1600w solar panels. Bud for the safety i buy this controller to make the load not to heavy for an longer lifespan.
If this MPPT controller unexpectedly breaks, I will buy an MPPT controller that can be disassembled for repair.
Perfect, you applied the second rule of solar, always run equipment well below it's maximum. You should get many years out your controller as long as it stays cool, cheers
it's ridiculous that these charge controllers can't just be disassembled. Without breaking it.
@@lexpee I've cut the top of the spare one, video up soon, cheers
oh nice, taking apart a Victron charge controller. I tried to do that on one of my smaller 75/15's that I broke (I tore a screw-head off on the terminal block), so I decided to use the opportunity to see what was inside... but the thing was mostly potted and full of salt (or something) as part of the heat dissipation mechanics. I didn't get very far. I always wanted to know what was inside.
The potting is about vibration and heat dissipation. In fact, absolutely necessary for heat dissipation (not just the FETs. The inductors and capacitors need it as well).
-Matt
Hi, I opened a 12 / 24 MPPT unit a few weeks ago, the heat gun worked. Next week I will be looking at the FETs as the fuse was blown, cheers
The idea that potting is absolutely necessary for heat dissipation is ridiculous. If that were true we would see it in all high power electronics, including other mppts, inverters, amplifiers etc. And even if it were true they could still design it in a way that it could be taken apart without being destroyed. I've never seen potted caps in anything else. I have seen potted inductors in a grid tie inverter but it was designed such that disassembly was still possible.
I can see it having some value for vibration, but again, still no need for designing it in way that it has to be destroyed to be taken apart.
@@user-fs3dg1po2z exactly, vibration yes, heat transfer no. It only needs a minimum level of compound, cheers
@@user-fs3dg1po2z I disagree strongly. I am familiar with a multitude of brands, not just Victron. The only brand (for charge controllers) I know that is better than a Victron is SMA. That's it, out of around 100 brands that I am familiar with. Think about that for a moment.
I have issues with some of Victron's other products, but not their charge controllers.
These are commercial devices designed to deal with stresses that most consumer devices never have to deal with, out in the elements (to a point anyway), over a large temperature range, and operating at full power for decades without burning themselves out in the process.
When we put these things in the field 99% of them had better still be working 20 years from now, and when one breaks you trash it and put in a new one, period end of story. You don't risk the entire rest of the system trying to repair burned out power electronics. That's just asking for it, because there are probably a whole lot more parts in there that also got stressed during the failure that you didn't replace.
That includes potting. Potting is extremely important for commercial products of this type, particularly when operating in humid environments. It literally doubles or triples the life-span of the product to not have components like capacitors and inductors exposed to the elements or the air or allowed to vibrate or any number of other issues, including containment issues on failure, and for electrolytics... the electrolyte getting dried out or corrupted.
So yes, I see potting all the time in high-amperage, non-servicable, fanless commercial power electronics. It's almost a requirement, to be frank, if you want something to last a long time (as in 25+ years). Potting, conformal coatings, huge heat sinks on FETs, fanless.... yah. All of these things are very common.
So in this instance I disagree strongly with many of the comments here. I feel that a lot of these posters are not considering the many extremely important facetes of designing a product like this and are improperly focusing solely on repairability without considering what you lose to get it. this is an instance where you really can't have your cake and eat it too.
-Matt
Maximum unrepairability. Everything is assembled on the backplate/heatsink, potting compound is poured into the housing cavities, then the fully assembled electronics package gets dropped into the housing, screws are put on to keep everything aligned until the potting sets, then the thing can never be taken apart without destroying stuff. If you want to get in without destroying the electronics, you have to hack the housing away to free the inductors and caps.
Hi, yes cutting the top apart seems to be the way. Time for someone to show precise measurements, someone with another unit and a loose top, cheers
@@TheInfoworks make holes across the housing, string a jigsaw blade through, saw the top off. Probably the easiest way to avoid damaging components since you are cutting away from components after the starting holes and can also use a boroscope to check things out first.
You never broke it, they did
Hi, it's set up that way if you believe the labels, max current should be half of that claimed for continuous long term use, cheers
I would design cups on top of the coils that are glued to the coils and then thermal pads between the cover and the cup, this way the coils are not firmly attached to the cover, the capacitors dont necessarily even need to be glued or just glue fromthe circuit board surface.
Current system has EPEver 20A controller and plan is get bigger controller now, i have over 400W solarpanel output atm and i can utilize only ~280W 20A.
I have been thinking about Victron, but this fuse problem has made me doubt the purchase and i rather think about the EPEver 40A controller.
Hi, I agree with your comments, makes other choices more attractive, cheers
I guess the dremel is the only way in Andy, the video is a success in that it shows where to cut! But of course you end up without a cover.
As for YT, ...
Luckily I have another to experiment with and so might have one cover, that's supposing it's fixable, cheers
Appalling.
I've just watched the video ChrisFairbrother recommended. It's a good one and followup too on testing. That guy suggests cutting a slot out so you can see inside and properly mark out for drilling. Others suggest using more heat but then you'd need to know exactle where the potting is. Another suggested sacrificing the caps (as they dry out above 125c and are cheap to replace) to get the coil potting soft enough.
150v @80A is too much for a small passive heatsink like that.
Your comment about the heat sink being under rated for X current and X voltage makes little sense
without mentioning the FETs on resistance. The source voltage is totally irrelevant when talking about losses in the heat sunk FETs. It's only the voltage across the FETs that count towards the losses. Power dissipated in the FETs = I²R (current squared times the resistance) If the current is 80A and the fets on resistance = 20 miliohms, then the losses, in watts = 80² x 0.020 = 128 watts with a fet voltage drop of around 1.6 Volts (current times on resistance)
If the FETs on resistance happens to be 10 miliohms then the dissepated energy would only be 64 watts at a voltage drop of 0.8 Volts
The on resistance of new tech FETs is getting crazy low these days allowing for huge currents to be switched with minimal losses.
Ian, like all bits of kit these days the rating is only achieved under perfect conditions. In real life they fail, much better to run at a lower rate for a decade or more. I'm thinking of cutting the top from the other unit, just to see if I can fix it and deal with the top problem if I need to, cheers
@@jamiesony3859thank you for your reply! The information and perspective you share is exactly what this channel is about.
I wonder if the resistance elsewhere in the circuit could contribute.
@@TheInfoworkshi Andy, perhaps these devices should have a duty cycle on their specifications. A lot of effort has gone into their design and manufacture. Is the pay back of repeat custom from blown units too enticing to fit larger FETs or limit their capability within a safe margin?
It's a fine line to design them to fail often enough to get repeat custom but rare enough to not damage their reputation.
@@ianhelsbyservices Ian, I think applying rule 2 as a standard means buying an extra unit, but only buying it once. It's the same with grid inverters, pushed to the limit in enclosed poorly cooled areas, a disaster waiting to happen, cheers
Try oven heating. You can leave in for extended time to alllow the heat to soak in.
Hi, difficult, I wouldn't want to cook those capacitors, maybe gas mark 1, cheers
Fuses, but if they blow, then how to replace... No chance
Hi, yes get the axe out, there to protect profits not customers, cheers
I think maybe victron are no longer able to compete with the cheap products which are widely available. I notice much of their stuff is 'on sale'. When you can buy 3 cheap inverters for the price of one victron what are you going to do?
I have good experience with the older Multi plus inverters, 25 Mw, 15 years and still going strong, but as you say the competition is getting better. The main thing is run them cool and not near rated output, cheers
Take a dremmel and cut around the potting and then when you go back together tap some threads and silicone a aluminum plate on it.
Yes, we'll see what happens if I get it fixed (huge assumption) cheers
how to fix Bluetooth more distance
I will never buy victron again after seeing this.
I think this is a bad example, my old Multi plus is still chugging away, cheers
My multiplus is still going as well and its 20 years old
@@lionel66cajppppp0 As is mine, steady performance of the older Victron products, set the change over to prevent battery abuse, cheers
Mastervolt are also really good
I work in the marine business
And possibly mastervolt are even better
I had to take a 25 year old mastervilt inverter apart recently and it's entire circuit boards were all coated in a wax plastic
Looks awfull but it still worked perfectly
I was a amazed actually
@@lionel66cajppppp0 It's the same with many brands, old is good, more modern is dubious. The Mastervolt grid inverters are to avoided at all costs, cheers
Don't you love the Tested OK, Sticker
Exactly, like the listing on ebay, "was working not tested". Weasel words, cheers
It is scrap, highly priced, advertised as best but non repairable. I will stick with EPEVER Mppt. These electronics goes to landfill if can’t be repaired. Moreover, how someone can change the fuses if it is too hard to access it.
You are right and it's not right, cheers
Same thing with Apple products.
not sure I agree, apple is very repairable, and always was, typically cheap spare parts came online quite quickly after a release. but now with apple the phones are still easy to take apart and replace parts, but you have to get apple to do it because of ID chips in the screen, battery, etc that are linked to the phone. This nonsense with victron is tricky, because even they can't take the thing apart to repair it. So either they have every confidence that their items won't fail, or they charge such a high margin that warranty repairs are dealt with by throwing a new item at the customer!
@@bootsowen Apple laptops has been easily reparable up to the M series, now they go into landfill. Or is sent to Africa. Victron charge a very high price compared to production cost it is designed in the Netherlands but is produced in India presumably with low salaries. US built inverters can be run full load continously but I would only run Chinese ones up to like 75% of rated load. But since the latter is third the price it is still worth it. Victrons inverters five years ago would lower the permissible load if run continously but they were as expensive then. Some UA-camrs in vans reported this. It was thermal shutdown. Victron never was a consumer company they started vith equipment for big luxury boats were the price wasn’t a problem.
@@bootsowen Owen, that's how it seems to me, having destroyed one in the name of find out, then the next one has more of a chance, cheers
I have a HYUNDAI genarator in to fix the inverter is potted in resin so no repair I think items like that should be removed and banned down to waste we supposed to be green in the UK lol
Hi, I can see vibration can be a problem with generators but total potting is just corporate banditry, cheers
@TheInfoworks I get it with the heavy caps but a simple cable tie fixes that but resistors and small components no need for it like you say its about the money
@@daveherd6864 Dave, exactly, and so the company good name and respect for quality is slowly eroded away at the altar of short term profit and bonuses, cheers
i did not know that victron units can go bad i was always told that they are bullet proof and they last forever and that are the best and you cannot kill them,,,,well
Like all of us, pushed to the limit with perhaps bad instillation this is what happens. It's the " you shall not repair" that I find despicable, cheers
@@TheInfoworks try the epever tracer 100a charge controller I am using them now for about 3 to 4 years with no problem but been using epever for about 10 years
@@bimmers323ci Thanks for the tip, with these scrap units it's the chance to delve in for a common good that interests me, cheers
I did it's clone on my UA-cam awhile ago
interesting, I'll take a look.
I've purchased Three Solar panels every one gives hoid volts about 17 volts but ONLY mA , 150 mA yo maybe 250 mA that us 50 watts in bright sun... Hu what a con job. At least I got money back off two but not from Eco-Worth which is land fill
The short circuit current test is the ultimate test, what do they do if you cut the diodes out? (in the box on the back). I have come across a dead panel and it turned out to be a faulty bypass diode. There's plenty of scam merchants out there selling faulty reject gear, cheers
See my video "what went wrong, faulty panel wafers: part 3". There's a solar panel investigations playlist.
Its excepting input not accepting input ya mean lol
Not my writing, but we know what they meant, cheers
Victron not victon
Thanks for pointing out the typo, much appreciated.
UA-cam declined with censorship and scam adverts.
And taking advantage of established creators, some like Simon Leach just don't do monitisation and produce fewer videos, cheers
They’re so cheap to make probably make them for less than 20 quid so they would never think of repairing one 
Hi, probably in huge volumes, I still say run them at half capacity and they will last for years, cheers
That poor manufacturing by victon, how to u repair an instrument, if you can't dissemble easy
Exactly, it's clear this is not meant to be taken apart, cheers
Its a bit of a mixed bag. If you want something like that to last out in the field you pretty much have to seal it in some manner. Potting, conformal coatings, etc. And deal with heat and vibration. Otherwise environmental conditions outside wiggle their way in and greatly shorten the life of the power electronics.
yeah poor manufacturing by victon, that's why they give you 6 year warranty...🥱
It makes me sick that they do that!!! You pay a lot of money for those and they’re not ‘that’ good and they can’t be stripped and repaired!!! Victorian and master volt I don’t use anymore! I use Chinese equivalents and they’re more reliable and can be repaired if needed!!!!
Hi, I always run things well below the rated duty, that way they last for years. Our 48v multiplus has done 25 Mw over 16 years. Got to keep things cool. I think it's crazy that grid inverters are mounted in lofts, exactly the wrong place. Yes mastervolt are definitely rubbish and they have backed out of the grid inverter market, the inside of them reminded me of a 1950s radio. cheers
had the same issue until i got a Outback Fm 80.
@@SkyNetworkSolutions Hi, this video has definitely hit a nerve, stories of being let down, cheers
Like a-lot of products today, they make them un-repairable :-(, the only answer is RTR laws, PS I have a victron 100/50 unit
Exactly, but how long will it take for this to filter down, cheers
Next time, please use a vice!
Lost a lot of money with this "not repairable and no warranty" piece of junk.
Never again will I buy this crap
Hi, you are not alone, In my book the second rule of solar is don't run your equipment above 60% of capacity. It makes things last much longer along with running them in a cool well ventilated space, cheers