Victron MPPT controller, potting hack and hidden fuse
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2023
- Opening this victron unit without damage, methods used and the internal fuse. Please support this channel through Patreon or Paypal.
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You need to pot the caps and inductors in particular in marine applications due to the fact that they need to be supported at both the top and the bottom to stop them vibrating relative to the PCB, as the electrical leads fatigue rather quickly if there is movement of the caps and inductors relative to the PCB, so they would fall off the PCB pretty quickly. Ie you need atleast 3 points of contact for it to be a stable system, ie a stool needs to have atleast 3 legs, a 2 legged stool is unstable. caps and inductors are natively only 2 legged.
I agree in transport applications it's important and the heating hack makes all the difference, cheers
Great, thanks for coming up with a solution to get these open! BTW when you have a blown fuse, you should check for shorts to ground. It's likely a MOSFET, or DIODE shorted to ground. Curious to see what you find.
Yes, we will get round removing the board, busy time of year on a small holding, cheers
Man i was rooting for you. Just a simple blown fuse? But then she let the smoke out. Best of luck repairing this one.
Thanks for your thoughts Jason, hope you;re a subscriber, cheers
Daaamn, just destroyed mine trying to pry it 2 days ago, wish i saw this video earlier. Even though i searched throughly on youtube it just showed up on my feed today!
Yes, UA-cam search leaves plenty to be desired, maybe next time. I experiment so that you don't need to. Please subscribe, cheers
@@TheInfoworks Just subscribed
@@mostafaelgamel6415 Splendid
I was surprised only by the cheap capacitors that Victron used there.
Thanks for sharing this. I have just had to replace my entire system because I wired reverse polarity.. yeah.. I know stupid me. But thinking that I can replace the fuse and some capacitors..
Will give this idea a go.
That's tough, I teach, check the polarity, mark it with tape, then check it again. Never imagine it's right, cheers
Did the same to one of mine. You'd think it would have polarity protection like cheaper ones
Hi. I'm running 5 Victron controllers. from 2 to 5 years old each. All working 100% every day no problems.
Hi, that's grand news and if you apply the second rule of solar then they will last for years, cheers
For these types of reapir you need at least limited power source and thermocam to check at low level of voltage and curent, what is warm and what gets hot.
Hi, I knew the unit was duff, especially as the 80A fuse was blown. Yes a limited current supply would have prevented the blue smoke dragon. The main part was removing the top with a hot air gun. cheers
@@TheInfoworks Look for "RIDEN Power supply"
They are cheap and fantastic things with lots of decimals, current limit etc.
Easy to power directly from 12V or 24V battery. Makes it isolated and portable.
I have the RD6018 RD606 and tiny RK6006.
The RD6006 is the best for electronics with 4 decimals current reading.
very interesting video.
Sometimes you just have to experiment to move forward, cheers
I know now not to open mine. Agreed potting is to stable vibration as mine is on an ocean-going sailboat. Thanks for the demo I know what is inside and also how it's built. Many Thanks,
Thanks for the comment, yes the video is to share the info and help promote self reliance, cheers
Isopropyl alcohol strategically placed works wonders with potting. You could use a syringe to distribute the IPA
having seen inside this could be possible but what would it do to the varnish on the coils?
@@TheInfoworks the prop’ alc’ and your question just gave me a nudge to times past re: sterilising electronic gear, ( don’t ask🫢). As I remember aftEr much experiment we used formalin and pure alcohol ( customs licensed - >70%) and sprayed very fine mist/ fog. The normal formaldehyde which is quite vicious in its own right was not the problem on circuit boards but the minute drops of liquid ( with the higher water content ) keeping the minute junctions wet long enough to corrode , just thinking out loud 🌝
@@TheInfoworks stratgic displacement of the ipa is the key. Pouring ipa into the enclosure is obviously not recommended. A syringe much like what medical people use
I think the potting mostly has to do with vibration. It's over the sensitive copper coils and the large capacitors.
I totally agree with you on the throwaway society and manufacturers going out of their way to make stuff unserviceable, but at the same time, not everything is always bad :)
I'd guess indeed a FET or diode has shorted and is giving you a nice smokeshow. Hopefully you can easily reach the underside of the board.
Interesting the smoke came from one side, we will be looking in good time. We run a 48v system so there is no rush, cheers
It be interesting to see the other side of it 🤙🇦🇺
Yep, well get there, cheers
thanks
COOP
...
hi, I fixed this controller in a later video, cheers
That will likely be a low side Mosfet smoking, failed & shorting on drain and source across the battery via the fuse. In normal operation this low side Mosfet would be off/open circuit initially.
May have been the gate driver IC that failed first but either way usually both the gate driver IC and Mosfet will likely have failed in this scenario
Thanks for your thoughts, yes it's not normally just one component and so greater knowledge is required, cheers
I saw there is an aluminium plate inside the cover to disperese heat and maybe shield the outside world from high frequency fields.
Maybe it can be heated with some inductive power aplied from the front.
A few big neodymium magnets on a roting disc driven by some drilling machine will cause heat.
Or an half open tranformer with iron core, an electromagnet, can induce current in the aluminium?
Then the heat is generated from inside and from all conductive parts near the front.
And now with the "substance" available it could be tested at what temperature it becomes soft.
Worth a try.
Hi, the melt test sounds a good idea, I going to try that with a heat gun. The problem with heat is the capacitors all packed together in potting. I doubt they would survive as the contact pins are not very strong. Keep watching, cheers
I can see 2 reasons for this foam : thermal transfer to the outside, reduce vibration
Hi, thanks for the comment, I'm thinking vibration proofing when in boats or vehicles, cheers
yy its gross weight this coils, or transformers, it helps for more mechanical robust and cooling too, disasembly is hard, i see open it for use heat for lid and then little bit strenght and it happens
If you want controllers without potting just go for the cheaper chinese brands like Epever. They have a good reputation and their controllers might be more serviceable.
Hi, I seem to get on well with Steca units, especially the Tarom series, cheers
HI, beuautiful video, you can build 2-phase 200 V IN 100 A IN / 10 - 70 V OUT / 100 A OUT MPPT as DIY ESP32 project for 150 - 180 €. With tracking better than Victron and EpSolar, with efficiency around Victron, MidNite or Studer products. So two such MPPTs can get 2 x 6600 W for 66 V battery and temps of FETs and inductors never go over 45 - 46 *C in 22 - 23 *C ambient.
Very nice! Have you by chance seen if you can get into the larger 48/100 version? I've found a non working unit and am wondering if it would be worth getting.
New subscriber 👍🏽
Hi, welcome, I wouldn't pay money for it as there is commonly a cascade effect to component failure, meaning that it's not a single component. If you are an electronics wizard then maybe entertain it, but otherwise be careful and have no expectations of fixing it, cheers
@@TheInfoworks great advice! I'm sure they overpowered the solar input but who knows these days
@@TheInfoworks also wanted to say cheers on the pottery! Do you show vids of that as well? I'm introducing my kids to throwing and am looking for the right clay! I thought my soil would suffice but it's not right so we went to the closest store and bought the only one they sold but it's still not what we need
Yes, there's a whole playlist on my pottery adventures (ceramics) otherwise check out Andy Wards ancient pottery, cheers @@Laurel-Crowned
I think you'll find the cover is powder coated aluminium. At least, it is on two of mine that I got apart by destroying the cover. I had tried the heat gun approach as well but I must never have gotten it hot enough to release.
Interesting, yours are obviously early models, this is definitely plastic and this is probably why the heat method worked, cheers
Interesting
Cheers
Hi om wandering if a couple of the screws underneath are for heatsink
Oh yes, but from the inside, cheers
The potting is there to keep the cap and inductor wires from fatiguing from road vibration.
What is the history of the MPPT? Was it over voltage/current that blew a FET, cloud's as the pass the sun there edges at as lens monetary boosting amps and volts beyond the panel name plate. If the MPPT rating is close the the panel name values it could fail.
Adding a external transient suppresser, say 80V 5 to 10W, grounding the panel frames to a ground spike may help.
Hi, this came to me in an interesting pile of "bits". I understand the anti vibration but actually using it to glue the top on is difficult to justify, cheers
@@TheInfoworks
Gluing to the top makes perfect sense, since the components are heavy, they need some thing to react against to keep them from vibrating.
Very few people are capable of repairing DC/DC converters, maybe replacing FETs but when they go usually they are not all that fails. But without schematics its even harder.
But a better mechanical design could have been done, but that would add cost and complexity, every consumer wants the lowest price and to by it on sale.
On the other hand if they did not want you to take it apart why did they put screws in it?
As I said not knowing the history of the MMPT who knows how it was abused, over voltage, over current, over temp, not grounded properly or factory defect, who knows.
@@TheInfoworks Agree. Making it unserviceable with "glue" is a crime. I think it is to save the coil from heating, but I would rather have a fan than a device filled with glue.
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283 They could be glued to the board. I think it is to get rid of heat from the coils and the capacitors as they offer quite high current for extreme users. But it makes the device impossible to service.
@@tofo2 The potting does not need to be so robust, the 100 - 50 came apart with no damage. The should be a better way to prevent coil vibration. I'm working on removing the cover on a 250 - 70, video soon, cheers
I have a 150/100 with error 40. The battery ground wire slipped out, I slid it back in. Although the unit powers up, can see it on phone application...cannot clear error 40. Are these repairable?
Hi, those 150/ 100 are impossible to take apart without major damage, so unless it's a software issue then I'm not hopeful, video on the opening up soon, cheers
That "Corporate strategy" plug is a very common JST connector...
Brilliant, thanks
It's also noteworthy that while other Victron equipment uses a 8p8c connector it't not Ethernet (the protocol used for computer networks). They have VE.Bus (which I think is RS-485) and VE.Can.
The VE.Direct port is a standard UART connection.
This is known because if you look up "Victron Energy open source" they have actually release quite a lot of information about all of their protocols to the public.
Yep
That does it.
It could be filling the device and making it unserviceable is also a cooling issue. The coils and even the capacitors may get hot in a non ventilated box. I have a faint memory some of the earlier Blue Solar devices where filled with something similar to sand.
But I would rather have a serviceable unit than having it glued. The design is trivial and easy to check for errors if not filled with "glue". Att least they could have made all power electronic devices on the heatsink and the fuse accessible.
Hi, at least it did come apart, but damage could occur. as you will see I've fixed another of these after a successful cover removal, cheers
The official explanation for potting is "Due to automotive/ camper environment we need vibration protection for large internal components", I had to do the same steps like you, just that I put my Mppt in the oven, set to 100 celsius for 10 minutes in order to open it and fix a broken connector from over tightening
I notice that all the screws have a dab of glue, but the potting is rather excessive. I sort of understand the reasoning, but there must be a better way, cheers
Please tell me more if you would, im about to go in on mine. I've got the BlueSolar 100-50 that has an aluminum cover instead of a plastic one.
I've had three of those fail and a 75/15 fail. Gave up and bought an epever China one, been fine for years
Thanks for sharing your experience, many people have recommended Epever. My Old Victron multiplus just keeps chugging away, but we never stress it. Applying rule 2 of solar, cheers
Good info . Am building a large bank of ercon automobile batteries to use as storage and
Am building a large bank of recovered auto batteries for storage and to sell as a side business. Charging from solar at 48v and want to try your light bulb trickle charging method on my 12v battery recovery system. Having good results with pulse desulfation devices and 2 amp charger but would like to go direct from 48 v without electronics. Any suggestions from you or the viewers will be appreciated as this a work in progress . I am aware that auto batteries are not suited for deep discharge so I am building a large capacity so as to use less than 25 percent of capacity. These batteries have been purchased for scrap price so when they are used up they can go to be recycled and money spent will be recovered. Thanks for all you do.
@@teddycunningham7568 Good man, thinking sideways, no point deep cycling batteries as you just have to charge them up. Apply the first rule of solar and you will be on the right side, cheers
@@teddycunningham7568 any experience with glass mat or gel types ?
@@pollywollydo Forget gel, but AGM are fine if used as buffers and not deep cycled. If you deep cycle the life is about 4 years, cheers
@@pollywollydo the a.g.m. and gell are responding well to pulse desulfation device with trickle charging . Am buying scrap batteries any that do not have 12v after charging overnight are traded to my local auto parts store core pile where I only take home batteries holding 11.5 v or more . I often bring home 4 to 8 and have about 80 percent sucess rate after a week of trickle charging with desulfator.. working towards a bank of 100 or more batteries at 48v and a smaller 12v bank to process new arrivals.
Wonder if Acetone would work 🤔
I hear it will, but what will it do to capacitors and the like? This seems to work and that I did not care if it turned out total destruction, cheers
@@TheInfoworks was thinking more of a few bleed holes in the case and flood with a few cc’s of acetone merely to release the “ lid” it’s going to be a type of technology which is going to be needed down the line with Tesla type battery repairs 🌝
I wouldn't bother whether they units. Buy epsolar instead. I am buying the RS 450/100 tr though..
not trx bench
Alright. If they potted the whole thing it would be completely un-repairable like Enphase micro inverters which are garbage. Fully potting the device would also be a nightmare for heat dissipation. Victron should consider making the face plate a screw on instead of glued with potting material.
Hi. I agree with you that full potting would be a disaster, also form the previous comments there is a vibration dampening benefit for controllers used in trucks etc. Is this the best compromise, maybe not, cheers
where is your external fuse!?
Hi, do you think it needs one in this situation, interesting, cheers
just think for a momentif you would be comfortable joining the wires together for a dead short
- if you are comfortable with this level of power in the wires, and any additional damage to the circuit, no need for a fuse
- if not, you can limit any additional board damage or melted wire insulation by the addition of a fuse.
I know this is a low risk, but, for something different imagine the recent japanese earthquake, or some other distracting emergency event (heart attack?) resulting in the pair of unfused wires remainig connected. (yes I know low risk ...)
John, it's an experimental dab, not a screw connection @@johnallen3555
Or, its a cheap way of keeping moisture out of the circuitry.
Maybe, or as another viewer pointed out, it's an anti vibration feature when these units are fitted in trucks and boats. Still at least we know now how to get around it, cheers