After a year of being "sabotaged" (yes, seriously), I left the church and am now taking a break. A values document may have helped our situation, but I don't know. Thank you ever so much for these honest topics.
Thanks for bringing this topic out and being real about it. We're humans and we tend to struggle with conflict (more so, as you say, as creative types). I've been on both sides and as a leader, always did what I could to put relationships first. I've come to realize I'm more of a relational leader than anything; more of a shepherd than a "rancher" because I care deeply about individual people - which makes some situations hard to deal with but the first pastor I led under told me that ministry is all about having a series of hard conversations and I've certainly grown from having them. I also wanted to mention that these are great suggestions - biblical ways to address sensitive situations whether or not its worship related. I've experienced it in leading in various capacities; one where growing numbers were expected (something I did not know until I 'gathered' that after being poorly let go). Speaking of being the one let go, when you're not given a reason (and you were 1/2way through the statement "different direction", which was all I got), that hurts more than anything I've ever been through in being 'removed' from a team. I expect it from secular positions or service but not my brothers and sisters who are mentoring me. Especially when... 1) the leader doesn't actually give you the reason and 2) doesn't follow up (even when they've told you as your leader to do that with your people). 3) Its people - leadership you've done life with - that tell you they love you (and they don't communicate reasons with you and you never hear from them again...) 4) you suddenly notice you are not scheduled and fall off the planning center calendar with no explanation; you see the person ask and they don't have an explanation...(?) (and continue to stay unscheduled) Lets not be 'that guy'. We all deserve the conversation. We all deserve to know how to get better at what needs 'bettering' or at least if we are struggling with a personality issue or if they need some vocal / musical coaching, we need to do what we can to help point that person - our family member - in the right direction so they can get the help they need (everyone struggles from time to time with something) and be considered for 're-entry' if that is what God's plan is for them. I'm admin AND creative but I see this more as how do I want to be treated in a situation that isn't working out from my leader's standpoint. That's where I try to lead from. Putting myself in their shoes because I have been and that kind of hurt is very difficult to process and move past. There's the dynamics of it being your own place of worship, ministry you may attend etc...Also, the more one matures in Christ, the more one can allow the Holy Spirit to do the leading in the conversations, restorations & preserving the relationship, right? Jesus was and is all about relationships; Love God, love others. =) Sorry if this is too long but this is a topic near and dear to me and I'm grateful y'all are putting it out there. Its necessary.
I appreciate you sharing this. Most people just want honesty WITH compassion - even if they know that conversation will be hard. I respect everybody more than enough to tell them the reasons behind any decision. But I know that's hard to do for everyone involved. Nearly everyone I have served with on worship teams has had a great attitude and warm personality (I've probably been one of the least warm and most direct people- and I work very hard to be more compassionate in every interaction). The common problem I see across most worship teams is what you mentioned - an unwillingness to address people directly. People are taken off schedules quietly, conversations are had about members when they're not present and these actions result in a slow degradation in the quality of our ministries. These actions usually never result in anything bad enough to sink a church, but they take the wind out of the sails of the people who see how others are treated. Then we struggle to find new volunteers, leaving leadership asking "why?" Every "tough" conversation I have had with people in worship ministries had resulted in something overwhelmingly positive. Even when personalities clash (and they will) a show of respect as simple as telling someone the truth in love is the universal bond-builder.
We've got a handful on our team that don't look at the music until rehearsal night. They're aggravated because they're lost and don't know the changes. We get the music 3 weeks in advance. Our worship leader has set us up for success and that's frustrating for the ones that do actually learn the songs. Keep our team in prayer. We're trying to encourage these members to do better and meeting some resistance in return.
Churchfront is a great UA-cam channel to check out. I believe he mentioned something about having individual members "practice" on their own and the group "rehearse" together. Practice should be viewed as a necessary task to do before rehearsal. I'll be praying for your team.
I suggested "benevolent dictator" as my offical job title, but they wouldn't go for it. But for real, more churches need to embrace time off as a postive thing BEFORE problems begin. Great job guys.
A good worship leader will learn from the team members and be sensitive to their thoughts, and vice versa. I believe that the same approach detailed in the video would apply, First try talking to the leader directly, then if that is not effective add another member of the worship team that feels like you do. If the whole team is in agreement with you your approach would be different than if you are the only one who feels this way., Finally go the next step up to the pastor or church leaders depending on how your church governs itself to see if they can help you resolve your differences. If the church pastor and leadership supports their leader, then as above, you still have the option to take a step back and see if after a break you still feel the same way. .
When did church become a business??? You want to know how to handle that? You PRAY! What has happened to our church...oh yeah....lets show love but let's kick u to the side. I grew up Pentecostal....there's no such thing anymore.
Thank you so much for sharing your heart on this matter. I’m sure you probably already know this...you are pastoring THOUSANDS through the ministry of Worship Tutorials!!!
Yeah this is a difficult subject to deal with and your approach is to be applauded. I have been part of a team where this wasn’t done in a Christlike way or in love and The ppl were so hurt they left the church, unfortunate and sad especially when the ppl were very dedicated and committed.
Hey guys, I love the videos. I'm on a worship team and we all have no Dynamics in our music. We play at 11 on every song every time. We're choppy. We have a guitarist that controls everything and treats all lead parts, intros, and instrumentals as big Van Halen style solos. Also I've mentioned to them that we need to learn songs like they are written and I only hear "we can't do that so we will just do it this way" I have no power to remove anyone, I just don't know how to approach my worship leader with this without sounding like I want a lot of spotlight. I learn songs, I set my tones to work well with the song, I use a metronome to set my timing, I believe in playing with excellence. That comes across as arrogance.
Like I said before: Congregational singing doesn't have to be perfect - our Lord enjoys it just as much. If you want to have a all-praise-to-you-band, then form one and make tours.
So many team leaders has Un-Christian methods to deal with getting musicians off their worship team. I have been a worship leader and lead guitarist and vocalist for a few decades. It can get very political but is a taboo subject but must have brave people like in this vid to bring this up. There has to be the principles set in The Book of James 2. The best way for me is to step down for a while or even permanently since God is who we must please. One of the key issues I have observed is the tendency to want to be surrounded by “Yes” people.
Great video and solid encouragement. I am thankful that no one came to mind on our team when I saw the title however our team has been through a season of transition in this area and are rebuilding our team ending a season with our former worship leader. We just met and laid out our newly evaluated team philosophy at our first quarter gathering this week. So it is because we’ve been there, recently, and have done some of the things you talked about that this video was a timely source of encouragement. I love the idea of seasons also and the constant reminder that we are dealing with people which we ought always to do with great love, a heart of unity and spirits of reconciliation. Great stuff guys thanks!
With some people, it might be as simple as 'dude, you're (not working out, being negative, not practicing, etc., etc... Fill in the blank here).' Being that many working volunteers are either burnt out or headed in that direction (due to the lack of available volunteers these days), many might be relieved. Some might even be musicians who tried to retire but were asked to play due to a need. Great topicz, though. Sadly, sometimes burnout can be due to a number of factors, but sometimes burnout can be due to not being sufficiently challenged. It can be difficult sometimes to take the same four chords and make something new out of them (in the parameters of what you've been handed). If you have any degree of ability and strive to be the best you can be, you really have to approach worship similarly to how you'd approach standard blues (ie expand one's repertoire over the same chords song after song) to not become overwhelmed with boredom sometimes.
this is always a slippery slope... yes, we need to cut out the cancer in a Godly manner.. BUT.. the most important thing here is to listen to the Holy Spirit on this! i HAVE a drummer, boy, this person had issues, and he used to rub me up the wrong way fast. i was just rolling with the punches though. also had a friend where i could go and speak to about this, who were gracious enough to understand my situation. but here is the thing. the Holy spirit told me to hang in there. so i handled this battle different than just making the gracious steps to get rid of him. i prayed for him every day, asking God to help and relieve this person of his pain and conflict. it took 5 months, and then one evening at rehearsal, he stood up and confessed his wrong ways to all of us. He apologized for making things miserable most of the times. God healed him of the hurt and he got free. he is such a blessing to us all now, playing his instrument like a pro, adding ALOT of flavor to the music. the best part is that God hid him away from the church during this time sothat the music from him was always great, no matter what the conflicts was, God still flowed big time here. Sometimes we think we are just a band leading people into worship, but we might just be something more. we might be an oasis for hurt people that God send to have a season of healing thru music in a place where friends, brothers and sisters will have your back and pray with and for you, no matter what the issues present. band/ healers group. just a thought. listen to the Spirit before leaping into leadership models.
I led for over 20 years in a mega Church. Always stepped in trained vocalist for over 30 years. Was slowly but surely pushed out for much younger models in tight jeans. After 4 years of not going to Church I went to Christmas Eve services at another Church. I will tell you it mentally crushed me.
I had a pastor tell me that he prayed and god told him it was time for me to step down from a team. The god he prayed to was the worship leader ...his wife... Who wanted me to step down. his wife wasn't woman enough to come speak to me about stepping down. And I had been on the worship team before they ever came to the church and took over as our pastors. I do not attend that church any more and won't ever set foot in it again
What about if you’re a volunteer on the worship team, and the worship leader is the problem, and they refuse to talk with you, and when they do they are very difficult? What do you do in this situation?
For clarity ... She has an awesome heart and God is clearly called both of them in the church, however, she only does vocals, and is always off key, and puts her name on microphones and equipment for only her to use. It’s a struggle for everyone on the worship team cause she throws everyone off and has that “Diva” attitude so to say.
One thing to do is maybe do a recording/video on someone’s phone for a review, and then have everyone critique themselves . It’s hard to hear something , especially yourself , while it’s happening. But when it’s playing back to you , you hear everything that your mind no longer fills in. It could be everyone in a song, or maybe one on one. But maybe then she can hear that she’s off, or maybe needs to work on some parts. Last thing you wanna do is try and rally people against her, or have a group of you attack her. Correction is all about building up people to be better not break them down. Hope something I said was useful (:
Are there any kernels of wisdom for people searching for a place to serve? What should they be looking for? What do people do when leadership is not healthy? How should people that want to serve deal with that?
Perfect timing for this... Well 2 weeks ago would have been perfect, I'm afraid we may have messed up... But at least we have something to move forward on. Thanks for the video!
What about a team member who doesn’t seem to have any respect for the worship leader? Also, what do you if no one can rehearse together on the same night?
The leader IS the leader, and so if the situation calls for it - and the leader is not able to lead because of attitudes and what-have-you, the the leader is free to let people go. BUT this is a fellowship setting, so the dynamics are different than a workplace, and there must be room for challenges to be handled over time, with a lot of prayer and widom involved. FWIW
Hi William. Exact same thing. If someone is derailing your ministry and not upholding the vision of the church, they need to be removed from serving. Better to have nobody than to have a cancer.
Hey I play at a small church too where we really needed another guitarist to fill in some parts, but he had the worse attitude and never learned his parts. Eventually despite being a team of 4, we told him it was time to take a break. Since then our little team of 3 have been doing bigger songs , pushing our limits of our talent and have dramatically changed how we worshiped and how motivated and better we all became. Sometimes more responsibility brings the best out of us, and our team grew closer and more in tune with one another. You gotta trim off the bad branches every now and then to produce more fruit . Hope this helps (:
Hey guys! Love the channel! This video is perfect timing. I do have a question about “letting someone go” when it is a musical situation. What if you have someone that is “grandfathered in” and absolutely loves to play, loves the vision, etc., but can’t keep up with the songs, timing, structure, etc. Even after working with the person, they just aren’t getting it, which is leading to the other musicians who are well prepared, to be frustrated.
That’s a great question, when working with a team of volunteers, I think you really have to keep that in mind and if the heart is there but the technical aspects aren’t, be willing to move pieces around a bit to work with them. People appreciate honesty. We’ve tried things like switching positions, say moving a weaker drummer to percussion, being mindful of partnering stronger members with weaker ones and also having them play simpler and these have all helped.
Our pastors at church allow anyone to lead worship who absolutely cannot sing. It’s like nails on a chalkboard or kareoke night. They think it’s all about the heart and who cares about the talent, but I’m so frustrated with it that I’m thinking about leaving, because they just don’t take it seriously. They’re in such denial that’s it just poor leadership to me. You have people in charge that shouldn’t even be allowed to have a microphone. And the ones with a real gift and anointing to lead, they don’t even recognize that person. I’m starting to think it’s more about church politics then anything else, which is sad.
Here is a topic suggestion I'd love to hear your insights on. How should we handle someone NOT on the worship team, who can't sing at all, but sings super loud in the congregation, to the point that it not only disturbs the worship of those around them, but that even the musicians on stage have trouble worshiping because of it? What's a constructive way to ask them to sing quieter?
Its not your call to say anything to that person . to god all voices praising him is a beautiful sound. if s person sounds like a cat dying to us. To god it sounds like the voice of the angels singing . its gods call to speak to the person through the holy spirit if he so choses to do so. not anyone in the congregation or leadership what so ever. I am on a worship team at my church. Amd if someone in the congregation sounds loud and off tune I just continue leading worship and allow god to work in them .. if he so choses so . church has gotten to far away from the old churches of long ago that really worshipped and focused on God. Now days it's show up , listen to a speech , worship team..."all eyes on me" , pretend to have prayer , then go home. Like going to a secular conference meeting. We have gotten to worldly in the church. . we are to be in the world not of it. The church is for broken people not the ones who are fixed. if someone is loud and singing kinda off key. God will still hear and will enjoy the fact that they are singing to him and not conducting a performance liken they are at a rock concert.. Like some worship teams I have been on. that's why I quit worship team for a number of years. At my church. Now I felt lead by god to rejoin. At first I kept telling god NO. which is something you do not do period Well god got my attention and again god was leading me to join the team I was very reluctant at first but I realized once I did join and obeyed the command of my father through the holy spirit s leading... I was blessed and have been blesses every since Your welcome...
@@gina8594inga what you suggest is very unhealthy. You're saying that the worship experience of many should be sacrificed for the worship experience of one person. That's a message to the rest of the congregation of how little you care about them, and they will not connect with God in a place they are not valued.
Hey guys, great stuff! Are you ever gonna do a review of your Shelton Strat style guitar? It has so much going on with the switching I would really love to see what all it can do
One issue I am currently dealing with is a team member who is fully capable but does not spend the time to learn the music and constantly comes to rehearsal unprepared. The net results is noticeable mistakes in the service. This also effects the other team members who do take the time to learn their music. Very hard too because I truly love this person and they love the Lord but there is an obvious discipline issue.
Hi Jack - that happens a lot. That's why 'Excellence' is one of the core values we hold people accountable to. Leadership and vision are necessary to inspire all our volunteers to bring their absolute best every time they serve.
Jack Price set the standard and 1. Be an example of it and 2. Enforce it no matter what. God doesn't break or bend rules and neither should we. Our goal and mission should be excellence. I would pull them aside and explain what you expect and Why you expect it and why we should expect it. If they can't meet with those standards then they're not concerned with achieving and pushing forward the vision for your worship team and probably need to move. God has called us to more than mediocre.
Had a similar musician at our church, way more talented than me, but lacked discipline and was always unprepared. Turned out it wasn’t just becusse he was lazy or anything but because he simply did not have the same care, vision or heart like we all had. Make sure you surround yourself with people you trust and have the same goals in worship that you have . Hope this helps (:
Always check in on him personally first... make sure he’s ok in “life”. Often there is a deeper issue that is preventing them from bringing there best! Look into it, and be open. Ask him what you can do to help him be more prepared and see what happens. Sometime people just need and want to be challenged by people who want the best for them!
I don’t see a link to download your sample values and vision document. Thank you for taking on such a hard topic. One thing you don’t address is the difference in church size when dealing with a praise team, plus being a paid staff member verses a volunteer trying to lead worship. Thank you for this channel. I look forward to your posts each week as I grow in leadership.
Thanks Steven! You may have clicked on the video before I linked to the document - it's in the description now, so if you refresh you'll probably see it.
A theme I’m hearing through the videos is that of having enough people on the worship team to give people the opportunity for a season off or even a few weeks. Any ideas or suggestions for a smaller church that doesn’t have a pool of people to draw from? How to prevent burnout?
I experienced this way: - Don't say, what the member has to change - Don't say, that the person could be off - Don't say anything, till the stuff from the car is back into the room, because would you say it in the beginning, he would never help.
We have a drummer that started playing bc we had no one else...we are a small church plant. He always messes up and throws the rest of the team off. He refuses to practice at home and complains whenI bring me complex music to work on. This has been about 2 yrs and recently the Lord brought us a very skilled drummer that practices every chance he gets. What do I do?
This is something I struggle with so much I lead a recovery ministry and there can be rough personalities at time and it's so hard to deal with because personalities have taken turns for the worst.
One question that would be great to hear from you guys on: how does your church approach offering communion to the worship team? My church has bounced between different things: offering communion to the team after the service since we play a song during communion, or playing pads while the team receives communion and then they begin a song when they get up there (difficult and awkward), or just having a leader play a song by themselves for communion. My church offers communion every Sunday, so this is important for us. What recommendations do you have?
Hey Nate, we usually get together as a creative team immediately after the last service and have a time of prayer and communion together before we all head home for the day. its a rich and powerful moment and gives us all a chance to reflect on what God did that day!
Hello kuya's that what we call if we respect our older brothers here in the Philippines. It's a very big help to me and our WT to have this ideas, God bless you and your ministry there.
Most worship leaders are horrible people, I been writing, producing singing etc for years and find Everytime I try to explain to leaders to not keep playing old worn out songs,
Rick I've found the opposite to be true. 'Most worship leaders are horrible people' is a pretty bold statement to make unless you actually know most worship leaders.
@@worshiptutorials they are! I did a research study on them and talked and approached many if them, they get jelous when they find out they are not the best singers around allways,
But like what if the person the team just isn't good not that I don't like their music style or anything like that but if their just honestly not good how would u approach that ?
Well someone need to go to the leader and compliment good part of them and that they are doing well and ask them what are their next plans and after that you could share your ideas and insights which you want them To have . Hope it helps but at the end let peace rule ✌️
I really need your help. What if the person in the team is piano player that is always off beat and ruins the flow of the songs. She never comes to practice and doesn't really practice at home. She is always very inconsistent when she shows to play as in the last weeks she didn't even show up. I have nothing against her, I just don't think she is giving her full commitment. The days we play without her it goes alot smoother. What should I do?
You've already pinpointed the problem now tackle the issue with individual. Address the problem maybe she needs to hear the truth about her performance and how practicing is only going to make your team that much better.
Would not be a problem if your praise clicque would allow other people in the ministry - explain it as trading people in and out, because it's NOT your ministry - it's God's ministry - you do not own it - you do not have the right to exclude other interested people from using their talents, and one day, you're going to have to answer to God for it. It's all about the people - remember the CONGREGATION?????!!!??? Not yourselves. You're not a band, your group facilitates worship with the congregation (supposedly) taking the lead role. If you want to be a Christian band, go do that.
Lol I was never late...wasn't going through problems...I was asked to leave...great ideas but no one follows it...I played well...was even told to leave the church... I left stopped tithes ...stop going to all church...read the Bible...some good ideas...but they also never spoke to me again. I'll be unsubscribing. Good try guys but it shouldn't be what's best for church but what's greatest to glorify God..." Does not the Shepherd leave the flock to find the one lost?" He is your team mate.
Satanic : no one is ever called to stop someone from worshipping God. Everyone is called to worship. Only people prideful thinks they are better than others. So I believe with all my heart , God is being glorified when you worship and only satanic people will not appreciate your contribution.
How about you focus more on being a community instead of creating a naturally competitive environment LOL. You brought it upon yourself to have to deal with these issues.
I'm sure I'm not alone in this, but HOHHHHHH BOY the timing of this video is impeccable :p
Praying for you and your situation. I have been there. As a pastor, I have first hand knowledge. Blessings.
Huh?
Ty Burton Aa
After a year of being "sabotaged" (yes, seriously), I left the church and am now taking a break. A values document may have helped our situation, but I don't know. Thank you ever so much for these honest topics.
Thanks for bringing this topic out and being real about it. We're humans and we tend to struggle with conflict (more so, as you say, as creative types). I've been on both sides and as a leader, always did what I could to put relationships first. I've come to realize I'm more of a relational leader than anything; more of a shepherd than a "rancher" because I care deeply about individual people - which makes some situations hard to deal with but the first pastor I led under told me that ministry is all about having a series of hard conversations and I've certainly grown from having them.
I also wanted to mention that these are great suggestions - biblical ways to address sensitive situations whether or not its worship related. I've experienced it in leading in various capacities; one where growing numbers were expected (something I did not know until I 'gathered' that after being poorly let go).
Speaking of being the one let go, when you're not given a reason (and you were 1/2way through the statement "different direction", which was all I got), that hurts more than anything I've ever been through in being 'removed' from a team. I expect it from secular positions or service but not my brothers and sisters who are mentoring me. Especially when...
1) the leader doesn't actually give you the reason and
2) doesn't follow up (even when they've told you as your leader to do that with your people).
3) Its people - leadership you've done life with - that tell you they love you (and they don't communicate reasons with you and you never hear from them again...)
4) you suddenly notice you are not scheduled and fall off the planning center calendar with no explanation; you see the person ask and they don't have an explanation...(?) (and continue to stay unscheduled)
Lets not be 'that guy'.
We all deserve the conversation. We all deserve to know how to get better at what needs 'bettering' or at least if we are struggling with a personality issue or if they need some vocal / musical coaching, we need to do what we can to help point that person - our family member - in the right direction so they can get the help they need (everyone struggles from time to time with something) and be considered for 're-entry' if that is what God's plan is for them.
I'm admin AND creative but I see this more as how do I want to be treated in a situation that isn't working out from my leader's standpoint. That's where I try to lead from. Putting myself in their shoes because I have been and that kind of hurt is very difficult to process and move past. There's the dynamics of it being your own place of worship, ministry you may attend etc...Also, the more one matures in Christ, the more one can allow the Holy Spirit to do the leading in the conversations, restorations & preserving the relationship, right? Jesus was and is all about relationships; Love God, love others. =)
Sorry if this is too long but this is a topic near and dear to me and I'm grateful y'all are putting it out there. Its necessary.
I appreciate you sharing this. Most people just want honesty WITH compassion - even if they know that conversation will be hard. I respect everybody more than enough to tell them the reasons behind any decision. But I know that's hard to do for everyone involved.
Nearly everyone I have served with on worship teams has had a great attitude and warm personality (I've probably been one of the least warm and most direct people- and I work very hard to be more compassionate in every interaction).
The common problem I see across most worship teams is what you mentioned - an unwillingness to address people directly. People are taken off schedules quietly, conversations are had about members when they're not present and these actions result in a slow degradation in the quality of our ministries.
These actions usually never result in anything bad enough to sink a church, but they take the wind out of the sails of the people who see how others are treated. Then we struggle to find new volunteers, leaving leadership asking "why?"
Every "tough" conversation I have had with people in worship ministries had resulted in something overwhelmingly positive. Even when personalities clash (and they will) a show of respect as simple as telling someone the truth in love is the universal bond-builder.
Beautifully expressed. Thank you
@@browserboy1984 yes. Thank you for sharing. I’m so sorry - I’m not sure why but I’m only just seeing this now. Blessings my brother.
@@OxoRoxo Thank you! Blessings!
We've got a handful on our team that don't look at the music until rehearsal night. They're aggravated because they're lost and don't know the changes.
We get the music 3 weeks in advance. Our worship leader has set us up for success and that's frustrating for the ones that do actually learn the songs.
Keep our team in prayer. We're trying to encourage these members to do better and meeting some resistance in return.
Churchfront is a great UA-cam channel to check out. I believe he mentioned something about having individual members "practice" on their own and the group "rehearse" together. Practice should be viewed as a necessary task to do before rehearsal. I'll be praying for your team.
I suggested "benevolent dictator" as my offical job title, but they wouldn't go for it. But for real, more churches need to embrace time off as a postive thing BEFORE problems begin. Great job guys.
Maybe another good talk would be when there's an issue the other way around. I'm sure there are people struggling with their own worship leaders.
Wells306 exactly.
Oh yes...please!
AMEN!!!
A good worship leader will learn from the team members and be sensitive to their thoughts, and vice versa. I believe that the same approach detailed in the video would apply, First try talking to the leader directly, then if that is not effective add another member of the worship team that feels like you do. If the whole team is in agreement with you your approach would be different than if you are the only one who feels this way., Finally go the next step up to the pastor or church leaders depending on how your church governs itself to see if they can help you resolve your differences. If the church pastor and leadership supports their leader, then as above, you still have the option to take a step back and see if after a break you still feel the same way. .
When did church become a business??? You want to know how to handle that? You PRAY! What has happened to our church...oh yeah....lets show love but let's kick u to the side. I grew up Pentecostal....there's no such thing anymore.
That intro with the caption "How do you remove a team member" followed by a smile and happy music. Lol
Thank you so much for sharing your heart on this matter. I’m sure you probably already know this...you are pastoring THOUSANDS through the ministry of Worship Tutorials!!!
I’m grateful that not everyone needs this information, but for the rest of us this is GREAT stuff!
Yeah this is a difficult subject to deal with and your approach is to be applauded. I have been part of a team where this wasn’t done in a Christlike way or in love and The ppl were so hurt they left the church, unfortunate and sad especially when the ppl were very dedicated and committed.
Hey guys, I love the videos.
I'm on a worship team and we all have no Dynamics in our music. We play at 11 on every song every time. We're choppy. We have a guitarist that controls everything and treats all lead parts, intros, and instrumentals as big Van Halen style solos.
Also I've mentioned to them that we need to learn songs like they are written and I only hear "we can't do that so we will just do it this way"
I have no power to remove anyone, I just don't know how to approach my worship leader with this without sounding like I want a lot of spotlight.
I learn songs, I set my tones to work well with the song, I use a metronome to set my timing, I believe in playing with excellence. That comes across as arrogance.
Great topic on a really tough subject. Thanks for having the courage to talk about this.
Talent is definitely a reason. If someone is not wiling to work hard to learn the setlist they need some time off.
Like I said before: Congregational singing doesn't have to be perfect - our Lord enjoys it just as much. If you want to have a all-praise-to-you-band, then form one and make tours.
You point at them and say "You're fired".
🤣🤣🤣
God bless you guys for these Videos!! I truly mean “May God truly bring blessings to your lives!”
Love these videos 🌷
So many team leaders has Un-Christian methods to deal with getting musicians off their worship team. I have been a worship leader and lead guitarist and vocalist for a few decades. It can get very political but is a taboo subject but must have brave people like in this vid to bring this up. There has to be the principles set in The Book of James 2. The best way for me is to step down for a while or even permanently since God is who we must please. One of the key issues I have observed is the tendency to want to be surrounded by “Yes” people.
Great video and solid encouragement. I am thankful that no one came to mind on our team when I saw the title however our team has been through a season of transition in this area and are rebuilding our team ending a season with our former worship leader. We just met and laid out our newly evaluated team philosophy at our first quarter gathering this week. So it is because we’ve been there, recently, and have done some of the things you talked about that this video was a timely source of encouragement. I love the idea of seasons also and the constant reminder that we are dealing with people which we ought always to do with great love, a heart of unity and spirits of reconciliation. Great stuff guys thanks!
With some people, it might be as simple as 'dude, you're (not working out, being negative, not practicing, etc., etc... Fill in the blank here).' Being that many working volunteers are either burnt out or headed in that direction (due to the lack of available volunteers these days), many might be relieved. Some might even be musicians who tried to retire but were asked to play due to a need. Great topicz, though.
Sadly, sometimes burnout can be due to a number of factors, but sometimes burnout can be due to not being sufficiently challenged. It can be difficult sometimes to take the same four chords and make something new out of them (in the parameters of what you've been handed). If you have any degree of ability and strive to be the best you can be, you really have to approach worship similarly to how you'd approach standard blues (ie expand one's repertoire over the same chords song after song) to not become overwhelmed with boredom sometimes.
Great points guys! Thank you so much. P.S. Awesome "Joke" at the end... "Out of all the people on worship team, you're no longer one of them." LoL
this is always a slippery slope... yes, we need to cut out the cancer in a Godly manner.. BUT.. the most important thing here is to listen to the Holy Spirit on this! i HAVE a drummer, boy, this person had issues, and he used to rub me up the wrong way fast. i was just rolling with the punches though. also had a friend where i could go and speak to about this, who were gracious enough to understand my situation. but here is the thing. the Holy spirit told me to hang in there. so i handled this battle different than just making the gracious steps to get rid of him. i prayed for him every day, asking God to help and relieve this person of his pain and conflict. it took 5 months, and then one evening at rehearsal, he stood up and confessed his wrong ways to all of us. He apologized for making things miserable most of the times. God healed him of the hurt and he got free. he is such a blessing to us all now, playing his instrument like a pro, adding ALOT of flavor to the music. the best part is that God hid him away from the church during this time sothat the music from him was always great, no matter what the conflicts was, God still flowed big time here. Sometimes we think we are just a band leading people into worship, but we might just be something more. we might be an oasis for hurt people that God send to have a season of healing thru music in a place where friends, brothers and sisters will have your back and pray with and for you, no matter what the issues present. band/ healers group. just a thought. listen to the Spirit before leaping into leadership models.
Really great video, thank you for the clear guidance and the vision document!
Great info ~ thank you so much and I just loved the ending bloopers/funny out takes
Thanks for the videos! Love all you humor and you values! God bless you!
I love you guys! So thankful for your priceless wisdom!
I led for over 20 years in a mega Church. Always stepped in trained vocalist for over 30 years. Was slowly but surely pushed out for much younger models in tight jeans. After 4 years of not going to Church I went to Christmas Eve services at another Church. I will tell you it mentally crushed me.
OR as an excellent alternative, send them a link of this video and a winky-face
Giving people a reason or chance to succeed. Well said...
It's Indeed a tough topic "subject to deal with"
The topic was like the most hardest to deal....yet u two did a great job.... thank you so much.... God bless
how about replacing the worship leader?
Yep
You guys always bless me so much, thanks 😊
Love you guys. Love your heart. Thanks for tackling hard issues.
I had a pastor tell me that he prayed and god told him it was time for me to step down from a team. The god he prayed to was the worship leader ...his wife... Who wanted me to step down.
his wife wasn't woman enough to come speak to me about stepping down. And I had been on the worship team before they ever came to the church and took over as our pastors. I do not attend that church any more and won't ever set foot in it again
What about if you’re a volunteer on the worship team, and the worship leader is the problem, and they refuse to talk with you, and when they do they are very difficult? What do you do in this situation?
How about if the person that needs to step down is the Pastors wife?
Yikes!
That's a tough one... WT?
Technically it should be no different than anyone else unless there is leveraged power in her placement on the team.
For clarity ... She has an awesome heart and God is clearly called both of them in the church, however, she only does vocals, and is always off key, and puts her name on microphones and equipment for only her to use. It’s a struggle for everyone on the worship team cause she throws everyone off and has that “Diva” attitude so to say.
One thing to do is maybe do a recording/video on someone’s phone for a review, and then have everyone critique themselves . It’s hard to hear something , especially yourself , while it’s happening. But when it’s playing back to you , you hear everything that your mind no longer fills in. It could be everyone in a song, or maybe one on one. But maybe then she can hear that she’s off, or maybe needs to work on some parts.
Last thing you wanna do is try and rally people against her, or have a group of you attack her. Correction is all about building up people to be better not break them down. Hope something I said was useful (:
Are there any kernels of wisdom for people searching for a place to serve? What should they be looking for? What do people do when leadership is not healthy? How should people that want to serve deal with that?
We had lead guitarists that always trying to out play everyone else on the team. And trying to make everyone else feel insecure and amateur.
Perfect timing for this... Well 2 weeks ago would have been perfect, I'm afraid we may have messed up... But at least we have something to move forward on. Thanks for the video!
What about a team member who doesn’t seem to have any respect for the worship leader?
Also, what do you if no one can rehearse together on the same night?
The leader IS the leader, and so if the situation calls for it - and the leader is not able to lead because of attitudes and what-have-you, the the leader is free to let people go. BUT this is a fellowship setting, so the dynamics are different than a workplace, and there must be room for challenges to be handled over time, with a lot of prayer and widom involved. FWIW
As a big church yes you can have them conversation. But what about the smaller church's that don't have that many people. What do you do then?
Hi William. Exact same thing. If someone is derailing your ministry and not upholding the vision of the church, they need to be removed from serving. Better to have nobody than to have a cancer.
pray and practice!
So if you are the only one there who will keep you in check?
Hopefully your pastor. If not, seek out a mentor and ask them to do it for you.
Hey I play at a small church too where we really needed another guitarist to fill in some parts, but he had the worse attitude and never learned his parts. Eventually despite being a team of 4, we told him it was time to take a break. Since then our little team of 3 have been doing bigger songs , pushing our limits of our talent and have dramatically changed how we worshiped and how motivated and better we all became.
Sometimes more responsibility brings the best out of us, and our team grew closer and more in tune with one another. You gotta trim off the bad branches every now and then to produce more fruit . Hope this helps (:
Hey guys! Love the channel!
This video is perfect timing. I do have a question about “letting someone go” when it is a musical situation. What if you have someone that is “grandfathered in” and absolutely loves to play, loves the vision, etc., but can’t keep up with the songs, timing, structure, etc. Even after working with the person, they just aren’t getting it, which is leading to the other musicians who are well prepared, to be frustrated.
Lay hands on them and anoint them.
That’s a great question, when working with a team of volunteers, I think you really have to keep that in mind and if the heart is there but the technical aspects aren’t, be willing to move pieces around a bit to work with them. People appreciate honesty. We’ve tried things like switching positions, say moving a weaker drummer to percussion, being mindful of partnering stronger members with weaker ones and also having them play simpler and these have all helped.
Our pastors at church allow anyone to lead worship who absolutely cannot sing. It’s like nails on a chalkboard or kareoke night. They think it’s all about the heart and who cares about the talent, but I’m so frustrated with it that I’m thinking about leaving, because they just don’t take it seriously. They’re in such denial that’s it just poor leadership to me. You have people in charge that shouldn’t even be allowed to have a microphone. And the ones with a real gift and anointing to lead, they don’t even recognize that person. I’m starting to think it’s more about church politics then anything else, which is sad.
Here is a topic suggestion I'd love to hear your insights on. How should we handle someone NOT on the worship team, who can't sing at all, but sings super loud in the congregation, to the point that it not only disturbs the worship of those around them, but that even the musicians on stage have trouble worshiping because of it? What's a constructive way to ask them to sing quieter?
Its not your call to say anything to that person . to god all voices praising him is a beautiful sound. if s person sounds like a cat dying to us. To god it sounds like the voice of the angels singing . its gods call to speak to the person through the holy spirit if he so choses to do so. not anyone in the congregation or leadership what so ever. I am on a worship team at my church. Amd if someone in the congregation sounds loud and off tune I just continue leading worship and allow god to work in them .. if he so choses so . church has gotten to far away from the old churches of long ago that really worshipped and focused on God. Now days it's show up , listen to a speech , worship team..."all eyes on me" , pretend to have prayer , then go home. Like going to a secular conference meeting. We have gotten to worldly in the church. . we are to be in the world not of it. The church is for broken people not the ones who are fixed. if someone is loud and singing kinda off key. God will still hear and will enjoy the fact that they are singing to him and not conducting a performance liken they are at a rock concert..
Like some worship teams I have been on. that's why I quit worship team for a number of years. At my church. Now I felt lead by god to rejoin. At first I kept telling god NO. which is something you do not do period
Well god got my attention and again god was leading me to join the team I was very reluctant at first but I realized once I did join and obeyed the command of my father through the holy spirit s leading... I was blessed and have been blesses every since
Your welcome...
@@gina8594inga what you suggest is very unhealthy. You're saying that the worship experience of many should be sacrificed for the worship experience of one person. That's a message to the rest of the congregation of how little you care about them, and they will not connect with God in a place they are not valued.
Very helpful. Thanks guys!
I really need this. I think I am burning out people by not giving them a break. Thus causing an implosion. Thank you.
Hey guys, great stuff! Are you ever gonna do a review of your Shelton Strat style guitar? It has so much going on with the switching I would really love to see what all it can do
One issue I am currently dealing with is a team member who is fully capable but does not spend the time to learn the music and constantly comes to rehearsal unprepared. The net results is noticeable mistakes in the service. This also effects the other team members who do take the time to learn their music. Very hard too because I truly love this person and they love the Lord but there is an obvious discipline issue.
Hi Jack - that happens a lot. That's why 'Excellence' is one of the core values we hold people accountable to. Leadership and vision are necessary to inspire all our volunteers to bring their absolute best every time they serve.
Jack Price set the standard and 1. Be an example of it and 2. Enforce it no matter what.
God doesn't break or bend rules and neither should we. Our goal and mission should be excellence.
I would pull them aside and explain what you expect and Why you expect it and why we should expect it. If they can't meet with those standards then they're not concerned with achieving and pushing forward the vision for your worship team and probably need to move. God has called us to more than mediocre.
Had a similar musician at our church, way more talented than me, but lacked discipline and was always unprepared.
Turned out it wasn’t just becusse he was lazy or anything but because he simply did not have the same care, vision or heart like we all had. Make sure you surround yourself with people you trust and have the same goals in worship that you have . Hope this helps (:
Always check in on him personally first... make sure he’s ok in “life”. Often there is a deeper issue that is preventing them from bringing there best! Look into it, and be open. Ask him what you can do to help him be more prepared and see what happens. Sometime people just need and want to be challenged by people who want the best for them!
I don’t see a link to download your sample values and vision document. Thank you for taking on such a hard topic. One thing you don’t address is the difference in church size when dealing with a praise team, plus being a paid staff member verses a volunteer trying to lead worship. Thank you for this channel. I look forward to your posts each week as I grow in leadership.
www.worshiptutorials.com/product/sample-values-and-vision-for-your-worship-team/
Thanks Steven! You may have clicked on the video before I linked to the document - it's in the description now, so if you refresh you'll probably see it.
This is really helpful...Been thinking of how to do this...and I was actually going to stop rescheduling some..Thanks again..This is really helpful💯🙏
A theme I’m hearing through the videos is that of having enough people on the worship team to give people the opportunity for a season off or even a few weeks. Any ideas or suggestions for a smaller church that doesn’t have a pool of people to draw from? How to prevent burnout?
I was told by my leadership that God wants me to fix the problem, but never wants to fix the problems that causes problems? I don't think that's fair.
Guy on the left needs to let the guy on the right talk more. You kept cutting him off, and it was clear that you just wanted to hear your own voice.
I experienced this way:
- Don't say, what the member has to change
- Don't say, that the person could be off
- Don't say anything, till the stuff from the car is back into the room, because would you say it in the beginning, he would never help.
Can u teach us how to play 'who am I'
good advice !! Amen.
Thank you Anna!
Great video.
We have a drummer that started playing bc we had no one else...we are a small church plant. He always messes up and throws the rest of the team off. He refuses to practice at home and complains whenI bring me complex music to work on. This has been about 2 yrs and recently the Lord brought us a very skilled drummer that practices every chance he gets. What do I do?
Stacey Dickenson switch drummers!
Mark 3:25 , Mathew 18:15-18
Haha , “I value you even though you’re not doing anything for me “
Yeah,that’s the problem,sometimes we are feeding someone program.
This is something I struggle with so much I lead a recovery ministry and there can be rough personalities at time and it's so hard to deal with because personalities have taken turns for the worst.
One question that would be great to hear from you guys on: how does your church approach offering communion to the worship team? My church has bounced between different things: offering communion to the team after the service since we play a song during communion, or playing pads while the team receives communion and then they begin a song when they get up there (difficult and awkward), or just having a leader play a song by themselves for communion. My church offers communion every Sunday, so this is important for us. What recommendations do you have?
Hey Nate, we usually get together as a creative team immediately after the last service and have a time of prayer and communion together before we all head home for the day. its a rich and powerful moment and gives us all a chance to reflect on what God did that day!
This video must be studied. I will take this to bed because I believe God sent me here.
Vision casting... dang that's a good idea that I haven't done for my peeps
thnks for the tips guys! can you help i cant download the pdf:/
How long is a worship season?
It all depends on whether you make the playoffs or not.
what if the problem is the person itself?
Hello kuya's that what we call if we respect our older brothers here in the Philippines. It's a very big help to me and our WT to have this ideas, God bless you and your ministry there.
Any chance u can reach out to me, i need some guidance.
Its a terrible thing when worship musicians go off script and cause damage to themselves and the rest of the team.
Thank you for the values pdf!!!
Does Brian even talk in this video?
Nope! :)
lov it
Just tell, Its not you, its me...
Ha! Just skip to 15:42
if someone is removed from worship team, its more probably take it personal , and we will not see ever
That depends on how you handle it, but it does happen, unfortunately.
So your initial reaction is to lie to someone?
the MOST important thing is lifestyle not musical ability
THAT ENDING!! IM DIEING!! YOUR SOOOO FUNNY FULLER!!
Most worship leaders are horrible people, I been writing, producing singing etc for years and find Everytime I try to explain to leaders to not keep playing old worn out songs,
Rick I've found the opposite to be true. 'Most worship leaders are horrible people' is a pretty bold statement to make unless you actually know most worship leaders.
@@worshiptutorials they are! I did a research study on them and talked and approached many if them, they get jelous when they find out they are not the best singers around allways,
How do u remove someone from your flesh
Put on a couple drops of 3 in 1 oil and then grab them with a pair of pliers and pull.
Don Moen you know we love you as a brother but you need to take a break . You just need to know the power chords on Back in Black by AC-DC
100TH LIKE!
But like what if the person the team just isn't good not that I don't like their music style or anything like that but if their just honestly not good how would u approach that ?
Go and repent!
Well someone need to go to the leader and compliment good part of them and that they are doing well and ask them what are their next plans and after that you could share your ideas and insights which you want them To have . Hope it helps but at the end let peace rule ✌️
Is there a Helix patch for this?
I really need your help. What if the person in the team is piano player that is always off beat and ruins the flow of the songs. She never comes to practice and doesn't really practice at home. She is always very inconsistent when she shows to play as in the last weeks she didn't even show up. I have nothing against her, I just don't think she is giving her full commitment. The days we play without her it goes alot smoother. What should I do?
You've already pinpointed the problem now tackle the issue with individual. Address the problem maybe she needs to hear the truth about her performance and how practicing is only going to make your team that much better.
Churches are so hungry for live music, they will hire anyone. If you can fog a mirror and can spell "geetar" you're on the team.
aren't christians not suppose to hold grudges?
There is nothing in this video about holding a grudge, is there?
oh maybe not. i think i miss understood what you were saying.
If the person stanup an leve befor the conversation start.
You mean if you go to speak with them and they just leave? I guess that means they're out...
Is anyone available to answer a question ?
Would not be a problem if your praise clicque would allow other people in the ministry - explain it as trading people in and out, because it's NOT your ministry - it's God's ministry - you do not own it - you do not have the right to exclude other interested people from using their talents, and one day, you're going to have to answer to God for it. It's all about the people - remember the CONGREGATION?????!!!??? Not yourselves. You're not a band, your group facilitates worship with the congregation (supposedly) taking the lead role. If you want to be a Christian band, go do that.
Lol I was never late...wasn't going through problems...I was asked to leave...great ideas but no one follows it...I played well...was even told to leave the church... I left stopped tithes ...stop going to all church...read the Bible...some good ideas...but they also never spoke to me again. I'll be unsubscribing. Good try guys but it shouldn't be what's best for church but what's greatest to glorify God..." Does not the Shepherd leave the flock to find the one lost?" He is your team mate.
Matthew H what feedback did they give you?
:(
Satanic : no one is ever called to stop someone from worshipping God. Everyone is called to worship. Only people prideful thinks they are better than others. So I believe with all my heart , God is being glorified when you worship and only satanic people will not appreciate your contribution.
Our church just ghosts the person they want to ditch, voila done. 🤨
How about you focus more on being a community instead of creating a naturally competitive environment LOL. You brought it upon yourself to have to deal with these issues.