Southern Railway- Saluda Grade Training Video
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Training video for running a train down Southern Railway's legendary Saluda Grade. This was produced shortly after the 1982 merger between Southern and Norfolk & Western.
Note: UA-cam did something weird and this video is moving faster than my copy is. They moved a bit slower on the actual mountain itself
Mr. Warren just recently passed away. R.I.P. Melvin, you are a legend.
Rest in peace Melvin Warren. You will be missed.
I had a family member who worked for the Southern Railway during the flood of 1916 and he saved a passenger train by sending it up the runaway track near Saluda. The engineer wasn’t very happy that he sent his train up that runaway track, but he told him that the bridge at Melrose was washed out and he just saved his life and the lives of the passengers.
that’s very cool thanks for sharing
I read that in a Trains Magazine Special Issue about mountain railroading, I shook my head when I heard that part about the engineer getting pissed off about that, worse was that 1940 wreck, that was very scary
Wow!
I was looking at the route on Google Maps midway through this video and found that the building at 19:48 is labeled as "Melvin Warren's Office". Rated 4 stars with 3 reviews!🤣
I’ve got a pre-abandonment timetable with this mainline still in it. No less than five pages were devoted solely to detailed instructions on how to run trains up/down Saluda. It was an absolute nightmare. Sadly, that was the very reason it had to be abandoned. I’m still amazed it lasted as long as it did.
Everyone sissies nowadays, this was back when real men did railroading
It was just wild. The Madison grade in Madison Indiana was a nightmare too, and like Saluda, is oos.
Tennessee Pass in Central Colorado was also a bit of a nightmare too even though the grade there was 3.5% compared to 5%. And in the last years of operations of Tennessee Pass, three runaway train incidents occurred along Tennessee Pass, and is inactive, just like Saluda.
Back when people cared about their jobs and took pride in their work. That was probably some if the best radio operating I've heard.
Face it, Grandpa was just smarter than most people today.
Especially when you know the whole damn office will be watching......including the boss....
Definitely not because they're on video for the entire company to see.
@@3superpar Depends on the situation, though.
@@3superpar back in those days, car owners manuals told you how to adjust the valves... today, they tell you not to drink the contents of the battery... #WeAreNotTheSame
My great grandfather Weston Pace worked as a switch man on the grade from the 20s to the 50s. Back then you sat in a switch house and the tracks stayed on the run away spur until the train signaled all was good and then it was switched to the main line. He walked 5 miles one way to the switch house. His wife Fanny Mae Pace once saved a train by running up the grade and flagging it down after discovering a rock slide on the tracks while taking him lunch.
It’s cool your grandmother was called Fannie Mae
@@777jones Yes, Fannie Me is a cool name. It was my mom's name, too.
RIP
So cool to hear the stories about how things were done in the old days.
That is a amazing I've lived next to line for almost my whole life and it's a treasured sight
All of you thumbs down haters,this man was running trains before you were born.
AND PROBABLY NONE OF THEM WOULD MAKE A PIMPLE ON A LUMPY HOGGERS ASS, ANYWAY!!
They prolly were rooting for a runaway derailment.
Pete Widner is the General Foreman electrical geru that came up with the Saluda Mtn. Switch project. I installed many of the projects. It kept the PC pressure switch from cutting out Dynamic Brake. THANKS FOR POSTING this documentary. It brought back memories. I was never on one of the runs but I worked on those locomotives like they were my own kids.
So basically it was a bypass switch? Thats so cool. The "Saluda Switch"
Always use your Special Saluda Key.
MAN I love the 80s safety music.
I'm a retired bassist and was just thinking the same thing before reading your's ! The major diff is that this music is all live studio musicians reading real music charts with real instruments and a conductor = soulful, and humanly delivered like not that diff than a train making it over Saluda !! Guts and talent !! Today's soundtracks are cold feeling due to most of it being produced by one person with a synthesizer emulating the instruments; cold, digital, soulless and needs to go away onto the runaway track if you ask me !!!
Hallmark movies
Too bad Justin Beiber and the Millinial Woop are what's in in music!!!
found the song! ua-cam.com/video/j1azbeFVSCY/v-deo.html
@@MarkInLA: I can see why you'd say that.
Listen to the sound track for the original Blade Runner, though, and see if you think it's soulless.
All musical genres have their pluses... probably even rap, though I don't see it there.
I want - no, i NEED more videos like this
There was a very in-depth article in TRAINS Magazine many years ago devoted to Saluda. It was written by an engineer fireman who worked tje territory. The safety tracks were the suggestion of an engineer named Pit Ballew who survived a horrific runaway
Born and raised in a Southern Railway family. My Grandfather was a switch man at Norris Yard in Birmingham for 30 years. SR for ever!
Sonny Dean My maternal great grandfather was a “railroad bull” for SR out of Somerset, Kentucky. I’m a lifelong and dedicated SOU fan.
@@jonfromstearns my great grandfather was a locomotive fireman out of Somerset in the late 1930’s and 1940’s. My great-great grandfather was the night chief dispatcher in Somerset around the same time and into the 50’s and 60’s. Both worked for Southern. I reckon our great grandfathers probably knew each other. Mine were both named Charles F Denny, Sr. And Jr.
@@joshuadenny1215 More than likely that they crossed paths. My third or fourth cousin, Edd Winchester, was the Yard Master and scale house supervisor in Stearns for K&T.
@@jonfromstearns Fascinating stuff
You know it's the 80s when the electronic fanfare starts playing lol
LMAO when the music came on🤣!
i’d give anything to back to the 80s
@@RDC_Autosports, you're not the only one!
Melvin Warren here “ I got your fucking train over that hill again, how about a raise sizzle chest? I’m getting tired of this shit” Melvin out…
Lol. You know these guys were told about filming beforehand.
"Last fatality was in the 1940's." Try getting a corporate lawyer to give you the ok on mentioning something like that nowadays
"Last RECORDED fatality".
Keyword: *recorded*
@@frootloops1696 OOF your right!
Try me
@@KnoxvilleRailfanProductions Oh Jackson, we meet again.
Won't happen if it concerns Disney.
being from the area, its crazy to see how much the railroad really drove saluda. it once was a bustling little town. now, its a sad shell of what it used to be. hanging on to the hopes that one day the trains will return...
I was there in the late 2000's. The rails were quite rusty, hadn't seen trains in many years. Looking down the tracks at Saluida and up the tracks at Melrose gives a sense of the very steep grade of this line, nothing like I have seen before.
Check out the 7% grade at Madison Indiana.
R.I.P. Melvin Warren.
What a great video. I live in Saluda, and remember going to main street back in the 90's as a kid to watch the trains.
Fond memories.
I didn't realize how much work they do. Very cool video.
Testament to the teamwork that keeps a railroad running every day.
That's one of the things I miss about it.
CSX train crew, yardmaster trainee and control operator in West Central PA, 1998 - 2008.
No long-hood forward on the road, and NO "dismounting" a moving train under the last set of rules I saw.
Now that's what I call "Wet-Your-Britches" Track Profile! A great big salute to the old Southern Railway and it's train crews!
Train engineer sounds like Jerry Reed when he talks over the radio👍🏻true Southern Railway
HAHAAAAAA!!!!!! "GIT INNARRR, YOU SON-OF-A-B!TCH!!!!"
“Ole Flash is lookin a little green son, need to stop off at the choke n puke. Come back...” 😂
They all sound like Gomer Pyle to me.
The Lousiana law's gonna get you, Amos! 😉
I love it! No safety glasses. No BS safety vests. Getting on and off moving equipment. This is real railroading! It is amazing we can get anything done at all with all the stupid and idiotic rules in place today.
yea ok whatever
@@greynolds17 What this comment is 7 years old????
@@milepost26.69 Yes
@@greynolds17 The commitment
but i was saying why were you rude to it?
Great video. Those men had to have nerves of steel. You had to think ahead of each movement. RIP Mr Warren.
Great video! Railroading is at its best with a crew of pros like these guys.
I'm a die hard southern fan!! The main line that runs from Washington to Atlanta ran through where I grew up at dryfork va at the 223 milepost. I worked for my cousin who was a contractor to ns when I started helping him. Loved these old high hoods, and love the paint and markings on these locomotives!! Southern railway was a very strong railroad for the territory it covered!! Mygreat uncle was a detective for southern railway. He was stationed out of Knoxville Tennessee. Worked for them from 41 to 79 his name was Vernon Jones.
Neat video!!! Lots of thought and procedure went into getting down the mountain safely!!!
It is interesting to see the “Southern” high walkway lights on the locomotives too!
I watched one of the last trains go west to east over Saluda. I talked with the engineer awhile, as the conductor was walking for retaining valves. Very interesting...
Brilliant.. Presentation, thank you for your time and Presentation ❤️
I love these old videos. I wish i was rail Fanning when the grade was active. The old Richmond & Virginia Airline track ran behind my house in Greenville, South Carolina. It was used for the concrete plant when i was a kid.
I learned so much. I was just in saluda and saw the dead tracks. I wondered about the history.
I truly have to say I had no idea untill I saw this video what it takes and what it took back in the days of no dynamic braking. My palms are sweaty just watching these southern gentlemen working that heavy drag.
+Danny Soldano They had dynamic brakes though. Imagine doing this without it.
+GEES44DC My train experience is limited to only playing Train Simulator 2015, but it's a quite realistic game. I find that the dynamic brakes only contribute a small amount to braking, let's say 25%, so I never really understood what the purpose is? And what happens to those 600 Amps of power being generated? There isn't like some huge battery that stores up the charge for reuse at the bottom of the grade, is there? Does it all get converted to waste heat somewhere?
Syclone0044 Those games are in no way realistic. Dynamic brakes are very effective. Train weight and grade has a big effect on how the dynamic will respond.
Where I run 2 units in dynamic braking and 10000 tons will usually hold a train at speed down our grades of .5%
Distributed power also adds efficiency to dynamic operation.
Dynamics are great for slowing long trains as using the air usually means a stop as the air takes so long to apply and release.
They're great for slowing down only a few mph. You can't do that with the air on a long train.
Dynamics also keep the train bunched so if you can do a running release of the air brakes you won't get any slack run out.
And yes, the energy created from the traction motors is converted to heat and blown into the sky.
+Syclone0044 The amperage is created with increased throttle, it isn't stored. The diesel engines creates more amperage by driving a huge generator that creates electricity to the Traction Motors. When I started with Southern in 1971 we ran a lot of trains without Dynamic. We didn't like to use Dynamic because it took more time to get over the road. We would draw down the train line brake and pull against the brakes. Old Conductors hated Dynamic, it can knock you down on a Caboose in and out. The new generation have never ran a train with a caboose on it and most have never ran a Passenger Train with people on it.
brainerdrebel Today's train handling rules don't allow for power braking. Most trains are too long to do it anyway. We still get away with power braking on the shorter trains we have from time to time.
I would really love to see the track restored and at the very least some excursions Saluda must not be forgotten and it must preserved!!!
The Belmont road foreman looks like a worried William Shatner.
More brakes Scotty!
@@terryboyer1342: Captain, if we run any hotter she'll blow!
That's some great train operation.
This is freaking awesome to watch!
Sadly, the line was mothballed in 2001.
As far as why, you really have to understand how deadly this line was. I don't have the exact numbers handy at the moment, but until they installed the run away tracks, this was the deadliest stretch of road in North America. This thing has killed a lot of people and injured many more. It requires your complete and undivided attention.
RIP to the Great Melvin Warren
Love the EMD 645 turbo in idle.
I love this video. Fascinating to see how this worked in detail.
Late to the party(this upload is 4 yrs old by now), but this is impressive. 5% grade?! Crazy stuff and nerves of steel. I was nervous with sweaty palms just watching this. I find it funny that Southerners are sometimes stereotyped as dim-witted, but Southern RR tested and proved many of the innovations we see in modern railroading. One innovation in particular being the radio remote helpers(you can see a radio receiver car at 14:52) I was lucky enough to grow up in California where I witnessed a comparable battle with Tehachipi Pass , where the Southern Pacific was another innovator in tech(microwave communication, computer data systems and simulation, etc) and train handling practices. The railroad industry was truly groundbreaking in technology and actually contributed to a lot of what we take for granted today. Amazing stuff indeed.
Tunnelmot- great post, thank you. I worked with the electrical gangs on SP/NWP, in the early days of the microwave com towers; late 70s. It was a very interesting era. Later I moved to Amtk passenger ops, but never forgot my SP/NWP days. 5% grades on a Mainline is amazing. What is Cajon, about 3.2% maximum?
@@amtrakjohn Yeah and that's the South Track which now is known as Main 3, I noticed after BNSF put in the 2ND track on the North Track that they use that as a relief track these days,
Put together during a time when America was a place where taking pride in a well done job didn't make you an anomaly. Such professionals!
Pretty neat seeing the Saluda depot in its original location. Can't wait to get back there for another visit.
As someone who regularily operates trains on 2 to 3% grades, it's not any easier now.
@@doctordothraki4378 at this point in time you have to worry about burning out Motors. I live on the southern side of this gradient. And there's two really level locations they're used for locomotives and heavy train switches and the first one is in Spartanburg which is on the opposite side towards the top and the other one is about a hundred miles south of it near Augusta Georgia and whenever there's a really heavy load you can hear the diesel Roar as they start to build up speed for the climb.
My parents live in Hedersonville just north of this. I remember when these tracks were in service.
Trains run up to Hendersonville still so..
The North Carolibna Blue Ridge Mountains, home to the steepest mainline railroad grade and home to 3 of the scariest stretches of rural interstate freeways in America I-26 near Saluda Mountain, I-40 in the Gorge and I-40 along Black Mountain Grade!!! God Bless the North Carolina Blue Ridge/Smokey Mountain region! Take it slow, Ten-Foer!!!!
What an amazing and challenging operation! Very nice!!!
Who’s here after buying this route in train simulator and flipping an SD18 off the side of a cliff. I know I am. This video is very helpful. Especially for the southern railway retro pack.
Hey there!!!! I seen the southern railway film saluda grade so many times before the smart tv but hey I love the 80's promotional film it is so vintage with music and people sound southern accent y'all! It's unbelievable.
Wow what a great video inside the workings of the railroad itself! Thanks for sharing this.
This is awesome! Was just at this very spot a few weeks ago
Go Big Green! I love this video. My Grandfather was switch man at Norris Yard for 35-years!
really great inside look at how trains once ran over the grade, thanks for posting.
Well worth the watch, thank you
I work for NS in the Asheville area. Even though the Saluda mountain has been reviewed for re-opening, all indications point to it WILL NOT be reopened. It woiuld be a huge boost to our (Asheville's) train count and morale. I'm not holding my breath.
very good takes a great skill to operate a train over this grade. We did visit Saluda and grade did not too bad at Summit, but seeing this and reading articles and pictures or runaways and wrecks told a different story
Notice the lead unit running long hood forward, in good old N&W fashion.
Both Southern and N&W ran their hood units long hood forward. The official reason for this policy was that it afforded the crews maximum protection in case of collision with a vehicle at a grade crossing.
sct913 We also didn't have to turn the engines as is required of Windshield locomotives by the FRA. We ran them both ways. Saved a lot of time.
well really they were running southern fashion
Mark Stockman- High-hood units too!
That caught my eye was the 600 volts warning sign in FRONT of the engineer.
On CSX we ran short-hood forward & the sign was behind us.
Long-hood forward had a speed restriction due to reduced visibility.
The road Forman Melvin reminds me of Buford Pusser in the movie Walking Tall.
Yeah! Tough old Joe Don Baker... RIP.
i was thinking the same thing before i even seen this comment
That music sounds oh-so-Mainstream 80's!
The Asheville area is just a shell of what it one was. There were hundreds of employees that were stationed there now there are only about 30.
A very interesting video, really enjoyed!
That looks a lot like an old Clinchfield Route. We (my grandaddy HD Cheek was chief dispatcher till 55) ran into Ohio from Spartanburg through Erwin Tn.where the shops were located. And THAT was some railroad building !!!
...Melvin Warren is my hero...takes a railroad man of the highest caliber to get unit coal down that grade...
the road foremen of engines on Southern and then NS were the best of the best of our engineers
He sounds like Gomer Pyle.
Maybe but he is far from Gomer in getting a job done coherently, efficiently and safely. Gomer would have had the whole thing in a ditch a mile down the rails.
Anyone else wonder how he got from that little "office" back to wherever his car was parked?
Did he wait for a train going up the mountain?
Fascinating lesson in physics too. Oh, and the Nathan M5 was the nicest sounding horn.
Imagine the surveying entailed in that prep for cutting that road !!!!
I love those old units
That SD45 sounds good idling. And love the country accent of all peoples…..
Anyone else watching in 2018?
2019 actually.
Just watched it for the first time,pretty good video,really informative. 2-26-19
2019
2019
August 2019. I rode behind 4501 UP the grade in the 70's
RIP Melvin Warren, September 21, 1941 ~ February 5, 2023
I bought the saluda dlc for train simulator. This video actually helped me...
Really interesting to learn about the details of working dynamics and air brakes together, taking the train down the hill step by step. Cool video, pity the picture quality isn't better -- we are spoiled by digital video. The road foreman reminds me of the expert witness in My Cousin Vinny!
That railroad passes within less that 2/10 of a mile from my home in Inman, SC. The line north of here is rarely used, since the Saluda grade isn't in use any more. I've been up and down US 176 and I-26 past Saluda Mountain. 176 is hairpin turns between Tryon and Saluda. I-26 has a couple steep grades passing Saluda.
My grandparents' house was on Canaday St right next to the Inman Mills spur.
@@elektrosoundwave I'm near Campton RR siding.
Fantastic movie I've never seen before great stuff.
when they were running dash 9's on this thing, they thought they could just run a train up the mountain without having to split it. That didn't work out like they thought it would. Down the hill, they ran about the same.
Anyway, they had to stop at Saluda and Melrose anyway because they had to set the brakes on the first 25 cars to 50% to get down the mountain. Once they were at Melrose, they then set them back to normal. So you had dynamics, air brakes, and the hand brakes all running to get down safely. You should have seen them split the train into sections to get back up the mountain.
Man me and my dad used to watch these coal trains in Spartanburg
Second favorite railroad right here!
Yeah, easy as pie. You can even do it in a nice dress shirt and tie and you won't even get your hair mussed. Video shot in good weather w/dry rail. Try this in rain, sleet, snow, or Fall leaves when the rails are as slick as ice. Or, lose one unit, one dynamic brake, have broken knuckle, or get stuck w/a bad-braking train and see how easy it is. NS closed it down 14 years ago primarily because of cost, narrow operating/safety margins, and the availability of less costly, less dangerous alternatives.
that line isn't closed. trains go up and down that mountain still every day
Been there lately?
It still has trains
Most non railroaders don't know the fallen wet leaves will fuck you up.
dobb673 The line has been severed at Landrum, SC. The line is shut down all the way up through Saluda, NC. A shortline RR does still operate on the line in the Hendersonville, NC area.
Great video, its still there. No trains, but more of a tourist attraction
A very good video of railroad safety operation.
Great video, which gave an excellent 'feel' for the complexities and 'dynamics' of taking a very heavy train over the crest of a steep grade and then down the other side - well done! One comment though - I was surprised to see the leading loco travelling 'hood' first, but Google tells me that is the result of an agreement with the railroad union, presumably to provide protection for the train crew in a collision on a grade crossing. I would have thought that the loss of visibility from travelling hood first would have presented a much higher risk to all. Can anyone who actually knows comment, please?
Until about 20 yrs ago, a brake man would ride opposite the engineer and provide visual support for that side of the train! Even before then the long hood was/is the forward “ahead” position as the short hood is the backing up when it is leading!
I use to see the belmont coal train twice ever week coming thru bristol TN when I was a kid In the mid 80 s .i miss seeing it an all the coal trains that use to rule thru bristol now your lucky to see one coal train a month role thru hear
Super vid! I guess they don't just push the green "GO" and red "STOP" buttons to drive them... Glad they have the cab in rear - don't want to be in the front during a runaway!!!
Wonderful to see this storied and legendary piece of railroad in it's prime. Sad to see video from UA-camrs that have hiked portions of the grade and you can just tell that's one very dead railroad now.
"The Mountain of Challenge!" Savage!
They sound and spoke Southern. It was common where I’m from but not so much now. Women who spoke like southern belles ,some were, that is gone also.
Thanks. Looking at this, all I can say is that UA-cam had better be glad they don't have to deal with a supervisor for going this fast.
Nice vid. The way things operate these days, if my RFE was at the controls on something like, that, I'd get off and walk! That's no joke.
I love the world of trains with cabooses
That video is awsome, love it!
I hope you are right my friend. It gives me hope that NS will reopen the Peavine between Portsmouth and Cincinnati at some point. They could save themselves a lot of money and time if they started running trains directly to Cincy on the `Vine instead of going up to Columbus and then back down to Cincy. The line is still in very good condition so it wouldn`t take a lot to get it up and running again. We railfans have our fingers crossed here in Southern Ohio!
I always thought those Silverside coal cars were really cool looking.
And people wonder why trains "randomly" slow down or stop for no apparent reason blocking crossings.
I drive for PTI,carrying railcrews around the Memphis area from their hotels to the yard and to their train or back again and to their home yard.
I wonder how long he had to think about the procedures that he used daily without hardly thinking about them so he could explain the pressures and voltages in the engines and air systems.
Shoutout to PTI. Your drivers were always on time, helpful and courteous.
I ran in West Central PA, out of Connellsville yard. RIP Glenn, aka "Copy" - PTI driver extraordinaire and a very good man.
I'm with CSX, and I hear ya, loud and clear.
Im sure that dude loved getting on the lead loco while the horn was going full blast
Yes, I saw that too, and wondered why he didn't have any hearing protection!
Last time I walked it, it was in pretty solid shape. It gets light maintenance from Asheville, and I'm not hearing of any tracks being torn up from any of the railfans that I know in the area.
Excellent; wow,I love trains great lesson.
This reminds me when l was in the navy, when you went through the sea channel into port, the harbor pilot took over the helm ro guide the ship through the channel because he knew how ro fuide the ship and avoid any mishaps, similar to controlling the train over and down that steep grade
Boy, you took me back to my navy days I forgot about the pilot coming on board the ship.
good video. Good training video
10:41 - guy sounds just like President Carter