Norfolk and Western Railway Modern Coal Burning Steam Locomotive
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- Опубліковано 21 лют 2015
- The Norfolk and Western Railway produced a company film in 1944 to describe the operation of the 4-8-4, J-Class locomotives. If you enjoyed this video please hit that LIKE and SUBSCRIBE button. I really appreciate & value all of the LIKES and SUBSCRIBERS to my Videos & Channel!! #norfolkandwestern611
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God I wish these films could be remastered. So much detail would be revealed.
Magnificent system of operating and maintaining modern steam locomotives! The service availability of performance of the home built N&W locomotives were as good as any comparable diesel unit of the time, plus all of the service facilities were fully paid off and amortized. There was no great need to "go diesel"! Arguably, the A-Class 2-6-6-4 locomotives were the best ever made for moving tonnage at high speed and low cost.
The manpower and maintenance of steam locomotives was too much compared to diesel. Just the moving parts alone.... If steam was more cost effective, the railroads would have stuck with it.
@@larrydrozd2740 If they don't electrify they may have to go back to steam!
@Иван Ангелов Buying those suppliers would have been a waste of money for the N&W. The handwriting was on the wall for steam.
@@Isochest They already have electric locomotives. They aren't diesel locomotives, they are diesel-electrics. The only thing the diesel engine does is turn a very large alternator to produce electricity to power the locomotive. Going back to steam will never happen from an economic, productivity, and pollution control stand point.
Regarding steam locomotives, the A class 2-6-6-4 could qualify for the best steam locomotives ever made with the J and Niagara, but for a different reason. The versatility of the A was top tier, capable of doing nearly any kind of service (flatland drags, fast freight and 70 mph passenger runs), have a great power to weight ratio and have roller bearing on every axle. IMO, the class A is the most versatile steam locomotives ever made.
Fantastic video for the ages and the archives. Particularly amazing was the fabrication back then. All man and manual labor, yet they achieved mechanical wizardry without computers. Functional art!
In 1980s N and W restored the 1218 articulated and 611 Streamline, they were quite a pair to see and ride behind!
Great presentation of some of the finest steam locomotives ever made!
Even back then the manufacturing processes were quite sophisticated.
What A Treasure!
So glad to have found this. Thanks For Sharing.
The class J is my favorite streamlined steam loco. Great video!
Wonderful! Thank you, Heath Nicks, for sharing this.
Nice priceless vintage video. Thanks for sharing .
Thank You for sharing this wonderful video. Its amazing how different things are today with getting things done.
The Great Northern ran their 4-8-4s from St. Paul, MN to the west coast of the US about 1500 miles per run with out being taking out off the train. The N&W class A's would lift the stack off pulling coal trains out of Portsmouth river valley. Once out they ran 42 to 45 MPH
Years old comment, but yeah, the GN 4-8-4s really did a lot of traveling and the S-2s even had more monthly miles than the J, about 20,000 compared to 15,000.
Norfolk & Western built most of their own steam locomotives such as the J class & K2 Class streamlined steam locomotives that pulled their passenger trains, the Y6A & Y6B freight steam locomotives. The J class & K class streamlined steam locomotives were the most beautiful ones ever built & along with the Lima built streamlined GS-4 4-8-4 in Daylight colors that pulled the Coast Daylight, Lark, Coaster, the Coast Starlight, the San Joaquin Dayliht, San Joaquin Starlight and other Southern Pacific passenger trains are the most beautiful steam locomotives ever built.
Wow, what an upload...many thanks.
What a mighty fine piece of machinery. I'm a west coast railroader but I must give the N&W their dues. They made some of the greatest locomotives in the world in their own Roanoke shops.
Awesome video my friend :)
***** I am a Brit and in general don't like the American utilitarian engines but this, this is magnificent, arguably the finest steam locomotive period. I have made two trips to Roanoke to gaze at her and plan to take one of the excursions now available behind her.
The J is the best mainline high-speed passenger steam locomotive ever built. The J's exact top speed is unknown; the J has been proven to reach 110 mph, but it is said that the J's top speed was limited only by the nerves of the engineer (lol). I have had the honor to chase her on her return to Roanoke trip, what an amazing beauty!
Greatest piece's of over rated loco's
@@armagonarmagon3980 70 inch drivers CAN'T EVEN COME CLOSE TO 70 MPH ALONE 110 MPH !!!!! YOUR A FOOL !!!!
70 INCH DRIVERS ARE FOR FREIGHT NOT PASSENGER
WATCH NYC HUDSON' S
IF A CLASS J CAN DO 110 MPH WITH 70 INCH DRIVERS
THAN NYC 80 INCH DRIVER HUDSON'S DID 300 MPH
BECAUSE EVERY VIDEO I'VE WATCHED ,,, NYC HUDSON'S ARE GOING 3 TIMES AS FAST AS THESE PIECE'S OF CRAP ARE !!!!!!
@@stephenheath8465 ACTUALLY
DREYFUSS'S WERE WAY BETTER
Heath, this is priceless my friend. Thanks for sharing.
Brian Haynes Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I love how the speedometer goes up to 130! It could probably do that too.
Agreed
@@That_Thicc_Cat No way. The PRR tested a N&W J at 100 mph for an extended run and caused severe overspeed damage to the locomotive.
@@markantony3875 I don’t disagree with you, but J’s regularly operated at 100mph
Highest speed attained was 110mph with a 10 car train. Theoretically, top speed was 140mph, thanks to use of lightweight rods and very precise counterbalancing. Really, the top speed was probably somewhere around 130, but N&W had no interest in finding out, because they'd be risking an expensive locomotive and the lives of a crew to determine a parameter that wouldn't be encountered in revenue service.
The rods and wheels were so precisely built that the track was actually more of a limit than the locomotive. When the J's ran over branch line track, it was like driving a sports car on a dirt road. They were also only reliable when maintanence schedules were followed, whereas diesels could take much more crap. That's why J's didn't spend much time in freight service.
@@RsRj-qd2cg yes, the J’s were beasts
This the best video i have seen of the steam engines the power of N&W Steam engines
Norfolk & Western if not no doubt was the best railroad in the regular. steam days. Southern comes a very close second but what made the N&W so unique and famous is that THEY built, ran and maintain their engines themselves without having to depend on factory companies like Baldwin, Alco or Lima to make and produce a large shipment of locomotives for them to run for their own passenger and freight trains. 2nd was they were able to run steam for a more extended amount time until 1959 because they made most of their own money and profits on the coal companies in W. Virginia, Kentucky and southern Ohio.
Oh, so interesting! I remember so much of this and hearing about my father.
THX for that timejourney back to normal life of the best Locomotive ever....all the best from Germany
I'm glad you are enjoying my N&W videos. You are correct, The Norfolk and Western produced some of the finest steam locomotives in the eastern part of the US.
+Heath Nicks
Hey Heath, yes of course i know :)
We are building the Big 3 of the N&W Y6b'2172/A#1239/J'#611 right now as live steam models.
For some impressions take a tour on my Chnannel. Pls keep your good Viodeo work up.
All the best
Chris
Very impressive Steam Locomotives.
Reminds me of the educational films we used to see in grammar school in the late 40s / early 50s. Thanks for posting, a friend from Indiana posted on Facebook!
Ronald Anthony Archer Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
:)
That is good history thanks for posting.
Amazingly beautiful video. Thank you so very much for the upload! P.S. I just subscribed!
The coalfield that the N&W served was supposed to have originally contained 7.2 billion tons of coal and now is supposed to have 5.1 billion remaining as of 2008. Good thing there is still a lot of coal up there and on the Pennsy!!!
thanx very much..
A most enjoyable video.
Thanks !!!! Yeehi wish I could have been there back then!!!
cant wait to see N&W 611 on a youtube video in the coming months because she has been tested and they are doing the last touches before she runs again
I just love it that at time index 7:06 someone just threw their shit out the window and over the bridge. Just proves that even in the so called "Good Old Days" there were assholes that rival today's idiots.
Thank You for posting this video. It's really enjoyable to watch, but about 6 minutes in I had to stop and make this comment. In the factory where the guys were working on building the locomotive I didn't notice any warning signs. Warning signs such as "Hot Surface" or "Warning Pinch Point" or any other "Warning Signs." It's as if these guys knew they were working in a dangerous or at least hazardous job working with very hot and very heavy materials, honestly choosing to do this and actually looking like they are happy. What a difference between today's snowflake workforce versus yesterday's. This is how the U.S.A. was built. By Men.
You can easily tell that the whistle 611 carried in the "90's that we all know and love came off #602 so beautiful and refreshing. I'm always grateful but it's an absolute shame Preston Claytor, Bob Claytor's( N&W turned first CEO and Chairman of Norfolk Southern and mastermind for bringing back both 611 and 1218 in the 80's) son had a falling out with the museum over the decision to the "Spirit of Roanoke" decals placed on both cab windows of the locomotive had to take the whistle along with it as well. Yes I can fully understand and respect it represents to all the hard working and dedicated men and women of the N&W railroad who designed, built and operated all of these amazing machines(J's, A's, Y's) in regular service, but without all the men who worked so hard and interested in preserving and running them and other vintage rail equipment, etc from the scrapper for future generations like Bob and Graham Claytor, Winston Link, Jim Bistline and Bill Purdie and so on should never be forgotten and still be given credit and recognition as well. To hear a real N&W J class whistle instead of a crappy UP on 611 today would be fitting because it represent the pride of the N&W's best steam power: The J class.
The J class will always be the Queen of Steam
CLASSIC FOOTAGE
This is the era of railroads run by railroaders , not accountants and paper pushers.
Fine video. Discussion with pictures appropriate. And sound and running action of the trains have extra attraction.
And good luck Bangladesh railway 🚂🚂🚂🚂 🚂🚂 🚂 with new locomotive and new bogyes and new making 50 years Bangladesh.
Nice video.
The engine in this video is a Type-J. I have personally seen this engine in the mid to late 90s when I was living in Fort Gay, WV, or another of this model.
I not only like seeing a 4-8-4 in action but I love one that burns coal and not oil. I never understood why railroads use oil on most of their locomotives
Because oil burns cleaner and increases the steamer's route availability.
I've heard it's because there's little coal in certain locations but plenty of oil. Also Didn't NYC Niagaras make it almost 1000 miles with only 1 stop for a coal refill? Also Anthracite Coal dominates Oil any day. I give huge thanks to the Reading Railroad for introducing me to it and welcome 2102 back to the rails. I like my 4-8-4 to have 46 tons of Coal like the Niagaras and use 25,000 gallons of water in their tenders.
@@cbolanz1 Yep, the Niagaras only made one coal stop cuz of the huge 46 ton capacity coal bunker in its tender. The Reading T-1s were also really good, that I can agree with, but I have no particular preference, to me, a steam locomotive is a steam locomotive.
@@09JDCTrainMan oil is more expensive per weight than coal. At least bituminous coal, not anthracite coal.
Oil is less corrosive on the insides of the locomotives and there is less of a chance of trackside fires. Certain classes will even run greater distances between refueling stops burning oil. A great example of the benefits of oil over coal was demonstrated when 3985 was restored in 1981. The 3985 caused 70 track side fires in Utah because of hot cinders. It’s the same with all coal and wood burning engines.
its neat seeing the Cincinnati terminal still looks the same as 1944 on the outside at least
It's really cool that N&W makes their own steam locomotives from scratch at their own shops in Roanoke. They really are the most elegant and beautiful machines that man has ever created. Well done! 👍👍👍👍👍👍
And some of the most efficient and advanced by steam locomotive standards too
@@09JDCTrainMan, really? Thank you. That's very awesome and informative.
@@nathanielcruz6675 Yep. Anytime.
Who else (besides me) loved the whistle at the start
Actually, the A's drawbar horsepower is 5,400, the source is from the N&W Historical Society Documents
Built by men with slide rules, rulers, calipers, micrometers and pride in their work handling hundreds of psi's of steam and some of the hottest fires. These machines with rotating drive rods weighing a ton or more driving 60+ inch steel wheels at incredible speeds for hundreds of miles on a machine so big, heavy and smooth and car manufacturers today can't give you a vehicle that'll live up to its warranty.
You don"t see any slide rules in this film. It's as if N&W didn't have an engineering dept.
5:48 Norfolk and Western 4-8-4 Locomotive 602 8:29 Norfolk and Western 602 10:56 Locomotive 602
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Always thought it was a shame the N&W didn't save the last Y6b built, 2200.
Atleast they still have a Y6A
@@TheRealRCSPEED Agreed.
Back when it was ok to be a man and take pride in a strong America. This mush of a nation we have in 2022 so depressing.
If you ask me, the Class A was the ultimate fast freight steam locomotive. Yeah the Allegheny is easily superior in drawbar horsepower and factor of adhesion, but the A has more tractive effort and larger drivers as well as still having sufficient DBHP to pull at speed. The A is also faster, 70 mph top speed compared to the Allegheny's 60 mph. The A has even pulled loads faster than the Allegheny's top speed, 5,200 tons at 65 mph. Plus the A has roller bearings on every axle while the Allegheny used plain (friction) bearings on the trailing truck. I still love the Alleghenies though.
LMAO. I love how N&W thought a J would achieve 130MPH so they stuck it on the Speedometer, when in reality the J’s maximum speed was 110MPH.
Great Old video, amazing engines, I would have loved to seen these machines first hand. Too bad we have to endure a Vote for Staci Abrams Ad in the beginning of the video.
i think all steam engine were good engines i love big steam railroading
Where did all of these Machines go? Where are the service yards? The machine shops? The roundhouses? The railroad companies? Even the routes these trains used to run, but most importantly, the servicemen, employees, and passengers that ran them? Are there any remnant left to prove this was commonplace? Its funny how I can watch history now as opposed to reading it, and I sit here observing from the detached perspective of my present time. This is as close to putting hands on history as can be for a average guy like me, but its odd because the images almost portray a sense of fiction. All of this no longer exists. It never did for me ( for I was probably born 30+ years after the last one of these engines ran a schedule.) I was never there still.. I can't help but look on fondly and feel like I miss these old days.
J 611 is in running condition and A 1218 is a museum piece, looking pretty.
the queen still runs to this day
Gezz the 611 have a big tender like the PRR locos and the PRR locos have BIG FRINKING tenders
400 miles and no servicing or touching up beside coal and water, thats very interesting must have had to do with the all roller bereing set up, 765 was laid to rail also in september of 1944 and requires quite a look over after 150 miles well oiling and watering anyway it is however a lima creation her history is differant then the n and w railroad, as 765 did fast freight most of the time hauling the flat lands of indiana and ohio, but she herself is still a good loco for what she does pulling excursions and does it well almost anywhere even with a heavy train, so does 611 but it is a differant type of loco and is larger.
but it is a nice fairly indepth look at the late period locomotives and in good quality film for its age too, its educational and somewhat entertaining as well, soo many films from the day like this were pure black and white and not very good quality even if they are color.
+manga12 Pretty sure 611 and 765 are actually similar size, or at least they use the same wheel layout- both of them 4-8-4 locomotives.
Just 611 was meant for express passengers and sports a top speed in the 100 MPH range, while 765 has slightly smaller wheels and handles more tonnage on the drawbar as she was built for fast freight.
Seeing 765 in person at 40 MPH though was amazing, and riding behind her even moreso.
+renegadeoflife87 Nope, npk 765 is a berk, a 2 8 4 64,135 lbs tractive effort, 611 is a northern and had more power 84981 lbs tractive effort. and the boiler of 611 is bigger and its top speed is 110 mph its said, the 765 is about 50 but could top out around 90 they say with the way she was built, and has one inch smaller drivers, it was fun on the cannonball, but not like it would have been had it been another railroad where they would let us do 50 or more like she was designed to do.
but alas I just read bad news from a short time back, the 21st century steam program is cancelled it was a 5 year program now they will focus only on 611 for the time being, but will allow 765 to ferry move where it needs to go, now I dont know what to do, I was hoping the 21st would continue for years, especialy now that the railroads are down on buisness marketing and public relations can not be overstated, in times of lean buisness. and as it were if CN gets the their hands on it you can bet the chance of any steam going along the rails ever again will be more of a pipe work dream then the boiler tubes of a steam locomotive, I hear all they care about is money, so much for the record selling runs 765 had in the last 2 years of service on the main line, I just joined to the society to help rebuild the box cars and car work, I do woodwork as something I know a bit about, metalwork well I know just a little about how to weld, and not well at that as much as I like learning about it, but maybe in the next 2 years we can get going on the headwaters junction project and then they will be building buildings and that is where I can come in handy with a saw and spackling plaster board, and we can have our own short line to run the city as well as excursions if they ever let us back onto the main line again.
makes me sad though we are relegated to the short lines again of where ever we can find places to run, our engine can do soo much more then she is allowed to do, on weight speed and amount of cars.
renegadeoflife87 NKP Berks could do over 100. One pulled a reefer train at 103 on a run.
The N&W As were somethin' else, I'll bet that a single ES44AC couldn't pull that tonnage at 42 MPH.
Yes at 42 MPH the diesel is not much more and the modern steam locomotive is waking up with more speed ready.
Your joking RIGHT !!!!!!!
@@robertswickard1262 Nope, I'm serious. The N&W A has more horsepower than the ES44AC, and thus the A will pull the same load faster. The ES44AC will still start a 13,000 ton train alone due to its high tractive effort, but I doubt it'll get it up to 42 MPH like the N&W A can.
N&W A: 5,400 HP
ES44AC: 4,400 HP
@@robertswickard1262 Also, it's you're, not your
that opening was bada** tho.
Is it that dark in the shops or is it just the film that makes it look that way?
They need to adjust the ISO, everything is dark and grainy
Whom were the makers of the film trying to convince?
0:05 [train chugging]
What's with the catenary over the station rails at Bluefield?
The Bluefield (Pocahontas) division was electrified west to Iaeger until 1950.
to bad the quality of this fine movie is so poor one thing I was surprised they would show the speedometer at an even 100 MPH most railroads would not do that
david levine Well this movie was produced in 1944, I did the best I could with this video.
Late to comment on your post, but several railroads notably the IC, Sante Fe, and the Milwaukee all touted 100 mph travel on their passenger trains. What amazes me is how they routinely coped w/so many trains moving at such different speeds!
This film shows the principal reasons why the steam locomotive disappeared from the American landscape. Above all, the steamer was maintenance-intensive compared to electric and Diesel-electric types, requiring more workers, more days per year in the shop and large, costly equipment such as overhead cranes, wheel lathes and presses and huge buildings to house them. Then there's the tender, always the largest, heaviest car in the train, it never earns a nickle and must be frequently filled with clean, chemically-treated water. Solid fuel is costlier to handle than liquid plus the need for ash pits. Not mentioned is track depletion, running an engine with 70" drivers at 100 mph is going to give the rails a good beating, plus coupled drivers will have poorer adhesion than locomotives where each axle is driven independently. While not an issue then, today legal liability and pollution would weigh heavily against the steam engine. In the end, the Diesel-electric locomotive saved the concept of railroads under corporate management, without them the railroads would have been nationalized, and more likely than not, electrified.
N&W didn't just build steam engines, they wrote the book on it!
Not how to do it !!!!!
U.P'S Big Boy's ,,,,C&O'S ALLEGANY'S ,,,,,,
NYC'S DREYFUSS HUDSON'S ,,,,,
PENNSY'S 210-0 DECOPODS
,4-6-2 PACIFICS ,, 4-8-2 MOUNTIANS
(((((( GG1 )))))
AND THAT'S TO NAME A FEW
PLEASE !!!!!! TRY AGAIN !!!!!
MATCH UP CLASSES OF LOCO'S
LETS PUT UP A PENNSY K4 AGAINST WHAT EVER PACIFIC N&W HAD
ENOUGH SAID !!!!!!
HELL U.P. AND S.P. OFFERED FOR N&W 611 TO RACE ACROSS WYOMING AGAINST 844 AND 4469 IN THE 1990's
again in the 2000's
3 ---- 4-8-4 NORTHERNS
N&W SAID NO WAY !!!!!!
WE CAN'T KEEP UP
STEVE LEE ---- THE HEAD OF THE WYOMING DIVISION AND LEAD ENGINEER OF THE ##844 SAID
''''' I THOUGHT YOU SAID IN THE PAST SHE CAN DO 110 MPH ''''
""""""" COME ON NOW """"""
SHORTLY AFTER ,,,, 611 IS SIDELINED !!!!!
UMMM ?????
And that's were she will stay because every time the talk of getting her up and running ,,,,
U.P. and S.P. says """""" COME ON OUT AND LETS PARTY AND PUT ON A SHOW !!!!!
A FAST ONE !!!!!
and then #611 DOING NOTHING BUT SITTING AS A SHOW PIECE !!!!!
TRUTH HURTS N&W FAN .
THE 70 INCH DRIVERS OF# 611
CANNOT HANG WITH THE 80 INCH DRIVERS IN SPEED WITH #4469 AND #844
70 INCH IS A FREIGHT SIZE DRIVER
ALL HAVE ROLLER BEARINGS
#611 HAS 5400 HP
#4469 AND #844
AROUND 6100 HP
GET HER UP AND RUNNING
#844 IS WAITING !!!!!!!!!!!
@@robertswickard1262 For one thing it's 4449, not 4469. And 4449 and 844 do NOT have that much HP, 4449 has around 5500 HP and 844 has around 4000-5000 HP. Yeah 4449 and 844 can handle higher speeds better, but 611 is more powerful while still being fast (can ALSO go 110 mph on the flats, proved by J #610 on the PRR while pulling a 15 car passenger train). The N&W intentionally made the Js with 70" drivers because they ran through tough grades through the mountains for some of the trip and needed the tractive effort. I mean, the AT&SF 2900 had 80" drivers, but their tractive effort is still just a bit lower than the Js.
The PRR was well known for having excellent Pacifics (K4s), so it's almost unfair to compare them to any other Pacific. The B&O P-7 might compare due to higher tractive effort and also having 80" driving wheels. And the K4s are better off compared to the NYC Hudsons and the PRR I1 2-10-0s are slow freight locomotives that can do no more than 50 MPH. And the GG1s are ELECTRIC locomotives, not steam!
The N&W's home built Y6s has a good deal more tractive effort (166,000 lbs in Simple Mode) than the Big Boys (135,375 lbs) and Alleghenies (110,211 lbs), and survivor #2156 (Y6a) is the most powerful surviving steam locomotive in the world! And don't come at me with HP, HP doesn't start trains.
So, yeah, the N&W had some of the finest steam locomotives ever built, and this is coming from someone who loves the Big Boys the most.
Robert Swickard N&W had the best of the Best of Steam Technology.
Robert Swickard Plus, at least the 611 hadn’t killed anyone during an Excursion Run.
Robert Swickard How about you compare the Tractive Effort of a Big Boy to a Class Y6B?
138,375 lbs (Big Boy) vs 170,000 lbs (Y6B).
What about the FEF-3 vs the J?
64,800 lbs (FEF-3) vs 80,000 lbs (J).
Last but not least, what about the Challenger vs The A (My favorite steam locomotive Class of all time)?
96,000 lbs vs 126,000 lbs.
Wow ! Just brilliance! Why could we not use this technology for alot longer!? Its mind boggling that all this good machinery could not be used up befor the diesels came along, nations could have save a crap tonne of money! Shere power in steam the plannet has more water than oil, why do some of us " polatitions" insist on changing the way things were done after all they take our tax dollars and put them into things that might not be best after all. We suffered as a human race in the 50's 60's and 70's trying to modernize our existance and to what end? yes we have benefited from it in some respect but with the system we have " money " we have suffered greatly greatly from premature waist of good technology that wasent even a few years old, by that i mean steam locos that had decades left in them 😔 !
Is this what cooking a steam locomotive looks like?🤣
When were the “J’s” taken out of standard service?
By 1959
4:20 lol sorry not sorry...
"No hand job will suffice..."!!!!!
"Modern Coal Burning" sounds like an oxymoron today. Of course, in its time, it was state of the art.
The point was that it was modern compared to the history up to then, of coal-burning locos. They're talking about older classes requiring much more maintenance.
You would think that by 1944 the company hired to film this would know something about exposure. Apparently it must have been the owner’s nephew or some other relative. Just awful.
No goggles, no hard hats, no OSHA and yet they got it done.
Yes, and industrial workers from that era suffered many work related injuries. OSHA, googles, and hard hats are not a bad thing.
You think that's low maintenance? Wait till you see the EMDs hehehe.....
It was low maintenance back then, that was in the 1940s bruh...
12:38 Wait a minute... 602??? I think we found a faker.
The N&W had a J # 602
What is that even supposed to mean
Funny how "modern" and "coal burning" is an oxymoron phrase now.