5:33 The wrist rest actually is detachable, you unscrew it from the back. All we'd need is Logitech to sell the wrist rest separately as a piece that you can swap out. :)
Battery life is INSANE! Now you know why there's no back lighting. This has been my work keyboard for the past year and it has helped my hands out even though I've had a busy year. Totally recommended. $130 is nothing compared to going through carpal tunnel release surgery. Take care of yourself.
I must be old. When I was in school we had to take a mandatory "keyboarding" class. Looking back, I'm glad I did. I can't imagine what it's like to sit down in front of a keyboard and not know where the keys are!
I must be older. When I was in high school we took a "typing" class using mechanical typewriters. AAA BBB CCC..... I had never heard of the term "keyboarding" at that time. LOL!!
I'm a youngster who sadly never properly learned to type so I just use basically 4 of my fingers flying all over the place. My typing speed isn't bad (85WPM) but I'm scared of repetitive strain injuries. I figured it'd be pretty hard to relearn how to type but not much harder if I just learned an entirely new keyboard layout so I decided to learn Dvorak. Anyway, I'm disappointed it isn't a mandatory course (or a course at all in my case) anymore. I could've saved myself a lot of time and effort that way.
I had this annoying colleague at work that loved coming to my desk and trying stuff at my PC. I bought 10keyless cherry brown mechanical switches keyboard, with no markings on the keys! This keyboard alone stopped him annoying me!
In another office we had this april fool where they changed the keys on the keyboards. The caps were easy to remove and shuffle. After 3 months one colleague noticed that I still haven't switched back my keys -- I haven't noticed it at all
@@SirT0M1 It's all the same. Kind of like how "gym class" has turned into "Physical Education. I had to sit at the keyboard with a piece of paper over my fingers to learn how to type. AAA BBB CCC. haha
I am probably one of the youngest amongst the comment section. I'm 15 turning 16 and the thing is, my wrist pain and hands were aching nonstop and due to the lockdown, it worsened to the point that I couldn't even eat properly. I bought the ergo keyboard a few days ago and it just came in two days ago and I love it. I guess I'm more of a touch typist, but I still do make mistakes because I don't really have the whole layout memorized. This is also my first ergo keyboard and I can tell you that I work at night with the lights ON so I do not find it a dealbreaker if it does not have backlighting. I found this to be expensive, but in the long term, this is a much better solution. Now I'm waiting for my ergonomic mouse. BTW the pain has lessened like crazy for me so this keyboard is a lifesaver.
For anyone who might read this: if you want to learn to touch type, look into mnemonics! It's possible - and easy - to memorize the qwerty layout in 7h (breaks included) + some extra hours to gain speed. I couldn't believe that would work, when my parents signed me up for a 1-day course of that type. My siblings later visited the same course and thats how we learned touch typing. One thing though: it's a soft programming of muscle memory, so if you use your past typing scheme in the first few days after the course, you completely ruin it. So be careful and patient or straight out put the course in your holidays.
Yeah, you can get used to anything. I don't have this, but I do have a split keyboard. At first it was weird, now it is harder going back to regular keyboards than using the split one.
Considering your age, I highly feel that the reasoning for your wrist ache is due to you not properly positioning your wrist when you use a keyboard. This ergo keyboard would help because the wrist rest and shape forces your hand to be positioned correctly. I'm glad the keyboard helps you solve the issue but I still recommend you looking into how to properly positioned, not only your wrist, but perhaps your desk height as well.
Typing on my Microsoft Sculpt. Happy to report that this is everything I'd want in a successor. LED backlighting is unnecessary for me, as touch typing is the goal with these. Having that 10-key built in will be nice, the Sculpt has one as a separate device which has never felt convenient. Being able to switch from three devices right from the keyboard is the killer feature. Definitely waiting for a sale on one of these.
Also typing on the MS Sculpt. My biggest complaints are that the switches under the function keys are terrible, and there's a slider switch to switch between the fn keys and the shortcuts instead of the usual button.
I disagree with the 10key being built in. The sculpt is already large for a TKL, as well as this ergo. I like neutral spacing of my arms for ergonomics. With this, you're forced into angling your arms outward if you are using both mouse and keyboard. I often use the wireless 10 key to the right of my mouse actually. And for the truly adventurous, you could place it at the left side to be used with your left hand instead. If I ever get into more keyboard heavy work I could see myself using this, but not currently. This will probably great for programmers and excel gurus that know their hotkeys.
The Sculpt has done well for me in general. I agree with the switches under the function keys. In the beginning I experienced a few weird issues that these keys would get stuck as well. I eventually stopped using these keys. And it seems the device is a bit sensitive for interference. Especially positioning my OnePlus in the center of the palm rest keystrokes aren't registered. All minor details though...
I have used the wired Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 since about 2004 or 2005. As a full-time programmer it was a lifesaver on my wrists. Never had a problem with carpal tunnel. It's kind of clunky looking compared to today's fancy ergonomic keyboards, but it is a total workhorse and only about $30-40 on Amazon. In fact, I am still using the same physical keyboard. That's how sturdy it is.
Regarding sit/stand desk: Don't think too much about it. Just get a normal motorised stand with at least 2 or 3 Memory Functions. Some even remind you by changing positions from time to time. That way you can choose a table.. plate I guess? that fits to your taste and feeling, try different materials and if it gets worn out just change the plate. Most of these stands also have cable management. I'd recommend a Monitor holder with arms and tilt, a holder for your computer under the table so the pc changes position with you, some cable channels and there are table feedthroughs with usb ports, 3.5mm jacks or card readers which are pretty useful too. You can stick fingerprint readers in those for easy access. Also you can sink induction chargers into the plate to charge devices really easy and "natural". Mounting the power outlet strip under the table also makes sense. Last thing don't forget to buy loooong cables for every device. Oh and sorry for my english
I use this keyboard for work and I absolutely love it. Prior to this keyboard I was using the Microsoft ergonomic keyboard and although that keyboard will forever have a special place in my heart, this keyboard is a HUGE upgrade.
My dude, you didn't even mention how the keys feel, the pressure needed to depress them, or what the tactile experience of actually typing is like. That's an unbelievable oversight.
These are really great boards, but I'd love to see the MX Mechanical come in a layout like this, or a TKL + Backlight. The MX Keys do last a long time, albeit not as long as the k860. Backlights help when you are working in the early morning or late at night with lights off or dimmed, even as a touch typist. Ditching the numpad or including it as a split option would further increase ergonomics for those that don't need it regularly.
I use a Microsoft 4000 Ergonomic keyboard & have for around 25 years. I have 4 kids & they all hate it. But I love it. I use it at home & at work. I am a typist so I don't have to look at the keys. It is comfortable & I've never had a wrist problem. I know many people where they do a lot of typing at their job & they have wrist issues. I also use a mouse pad with a wrist pad.
I'm currently using the Microsoft Sculpt ergo keyboard - love it. This is quite nice - I tried the MX Keys keyboard and loved everything about it - so presumably it's the same travel etc in a ergo layout... I will probably try it.
bought one of these off of ebay - this week nearly new for an amazing price. I am a touch typist and have been on it since it arrived today. LOVE IT. watched your video after the purchase but looks like other than the price it was a thumbs up for you -- as it is for me. the led missing is not an issue - as i touch type and rarely look at the key board i paid about 75% 'less than the full price so pretty good investment from my prospective. most importantly my wrists have never felt better.
Yeah... I'm a touch typest, and use the right hand to press the B key, this board would throw me off. EDIT: LED backlighting can still be really helpful. Even though I can type pretty well, I don't recall some of the symbols, with layouts and regions changing things up. If I'm also working in a dark room it can help find my home row.
Work in a well lit room. Dark room is nerdy but not helping your eyes. I have two desk lamps behind my monitor illuminating the wall behind it. And LED strip around the walls to create shadowless but bright illumination.
Have been thinking of trying these for years, and got a Kensington "Orbit Fusion" ergonomic trackball mouse half a year ago, that convinced me that ergonomic stuff is NOT just gimmick..! I needed a new keyboard, and just found the "iiglo ERGO Kx" at black friday sale for $10 (normal price is $70 here in Norway). Cant wait to try it 😁 Update: Just got it, and it is definitely more comfortable than my old keyboard, but the button layout is a bit different, so it will take some getting used to. The "Y" shaped curve of each side of the keyboard makes the backspace a bit higher up compared to what im used to, so i often hit the Enter key instead. But i just started using it maybe an hour ago, so im sure ill get used to it pretty quickly. Ive never tried a palmrest before, but i like it a LOT 😊
I've been using the Logitech K860 for over ten months now. The 6/^ key is on the wrong side of the split. The feet for raising the wrist rest are fragile and are long gone. The key action and shape of the keyboard are excellent. The lack of any keyboard backlighting means that I'm still using the original batteries that came with the keyboard, I have some carple tunnel starting up in my right wrist but this condition has improved since I started using this keyboard. Although I would really like Logitech to put the 6 key on the right-hand side of the split where it belongs, I still recommend this keyboard. The price, for a wireless keyboard of this quality, with dual capability for dongle or Bluetooth capability is an excellent value.
About the LED - that's also my rant when I bought a Logitech K380 keyboard as a temporary 'reliever' away from mechanical keyboard, but after only 2 days, I'd much rather have no led for it. You'll just get that good feel of typing with it without looking as much as possible :)
@moo I agree with most of what you're saying, the alice is probably the least ergonomic of the bunch, but having typed for more than a week on a scuplt vs. daily driving an XD75, it's a really low bar. I spent 20 minutes typing on a friend's alice and I'd say it's still about as good as the sculpt, despite not having tenting. The best ergodox's I've felt are actually the ones they sell with the fully scuplted keycaps. Once you put a DSA set on them they take a hit to the comfort. If I had to do a ranking to "ergonomic-ness" I'd probably go datctl, iris, ergodox, then the split keebs, then the xd75, then the alice. That being said, everyone has different wrists, and the further it is from what people know, the harder it will be to adjust. I would say something like a Mistrel staggered split with a good set of wrists rests would alleviate a large amount of typing strain for a lot of people without having to go all out on a Manuform and learn a completely new way of typing.
Been using the MS 4000 for over 5 years at work and home. Have worn the letters off many of the keys. Had carpal tunnel(?) before, this keyboard saved my bacon.
Very nice review, though I wish a little more discussion about how the keys feel and how loud they are in an office environment would've been nice. I've been using Microsoft ergonomic keyboards for years, starting with the Microsoft Natural Keyboard 4000. I'm currently using the Microsoft Sculpt keyboard, which is definitely a love/hate relationship (love the wireless connectivity, hate the smaller Function (F) keys on the top row). I would never go back to standard keyboards, since I'm always in front of a computer coding. The new Logitech K860 keyboard looks great! I'm going to pick it up and see how it compares with the Microsoft Sculpt. I'm already using the Logitech MX Master 3 mouse, so this keyboard will pair nicely with it and save a USB port.
If it had backlighting I would preorder it right now. Have the Logitech MX Keys now and love it but came from a logitech keyboard on a PC (now using imac). I work in darker environment so need backlit keys. If Logitech adds backlighting and recharging like MX keys keyboard consider it sold! Let's hope they do
Use the Microsoft Ergo Keyboard at work and Corsair Strafe Mechanical at home. I can feel pain/fatigue any time I have an extended typing period on a normal keyboard now but not on the ergo ones. Love the ergo design and once you get used to it you definitely type better on it than you do on the regular design. Price is way too high compared to what Microsoft has. Backlighting is not as big of a deal, Logitech’s main customer here is a well lit office.
I love Logitech gear and am glad to see them selling something like this. Thank you Ebert. I will be going to a store and trying this keyboard for my own typing experience. (:
They've sold products like this for years, I'm still waiting for an update to my beloved MK550 Wave. Having bought a G915 TKL, I love it but I would still love an updated Wave.
@@WarriorsPhoto You should still be able to buy the Wave in retail stores. There's a Comfort keyboard which just has opposite sides of the keyboard sloping but that's all it does. I will say that the Mouse that comes with the Wave combo is not that great, it's rear heavy and you feel it when picking it up.
@@DarrenKrusi I am looking for a nice keyboard for when mine goes out. Whenever that'll be. Thank you for the input. BTW, any mechanical keyboards you know of that are Mac specific?
This is the better version of the cherry ergo keyboard. I bought the cherry a few years ago and was able to get the ergo later. the ergo is by far the better keyboard in so many ways. If you 'd like to try ergo, go with the cherry until you get used to it, but I think getting the logi ergo as a first is great.
This looks awesome. And God love them for putting the risers on the front instead of the back. I'd have probably gone with this if I didn't already have a Kinesis Pro. Thanks for the review!
I JUST purchased this keyboard. If you “type”, then you’ll have no problem adjusting. This isn’t my first ergonomic keyboard, and I’m a traditional typist (they actually had that class in high school back in the 80’s). Going back forth to regular keyboards has never been a problem for me. I was hesitant paying $130. But, I’ve purchased and returned several over the past few months. All cost less than this keyboard, and none had all the features of this keyboard. So, maybe it IS worth the $129 price...?
I use the Microsoft Sculpt ergonomic keyboard. I love it. I had some wrist pain from typing on a Macbook for my software development job and the ergonomic keyboard made such a positive impact.
Good quality video review if I've ever seen one. Just ordered to give it a try as my daily work keyboard. Agreed on the absence of any backlighting (usually wired keyboards), but I can live with that for daylight work just fine. For low light / gaming I'll probably just switch up. Thanks for the great review!
When I was working in a job where I spent all day at a keyboard - I was rocking a Microsoft Ergonomic 4000. Also used it for gaming (MMO nothing heavy).
I love my Kinesis Freestyle Edge and Kinesis Freestyle Blue. I use the Freestyle Blue at work where not having the back light is not really an issue, but I love the Freestyle Edge at home where i can use it in a dark room without any issues. I use both keyboards at shoulder width apart, which is what I really love about these keyboards. It really helped with dealing with shoulder and elbow pain. I have been using the Freestyle Blue for about 4 years now and I still love it. I have found I have a little issue with switch from my laptop keyboard to the Freestyles, but they are similar enough it is not much of an issue.
I use the MX ergo, I find the tilt to be worth the cost compared to the Logitech M570. The ball is a little more firmly secured in the socket which actually I don't prefer because it makes it a little harder to clean, but overall I still prefer the mx ergo. The resolution is quite tight, and there's a precision mode button. It works nicely with both bluetooth and the "unifying receiver" . I have won games of apex legends and starcraft 2 using it, so you can still game with it. I don't have an ergo keyboard but I do have an ergo mouse, and part of that is all the motion that goes into a mouse. I was developing carpal tunnel and I have done some stretches to help mitigate and manage it and that has been helpful but I do see a trackball mouse such as the MX ergo as a good way to constructively respond to it. Personally I also enjoy carrying the MX Ergo with me to use with my laptop, you will get some funny looks but it is really nice having a full desk experience without requiring a full desk worth of space (the mouse doesn't have to move). For me my strategy of reducing travel distance has been helpful in managing my symptoms, obviously your mileage may vary. I do find that the angle of the mx ergo is a substantial improvement to the m570, which I still think is a good choice to affordably cut back on repetitive stress. If you can afford it get the mx ergo, if you can't then try the m570. Either one will be a marked improvement over a traditional mouse in my experience and opinion.
As a touch typist, I don’t care about keyboard backlighting. In fact, I have a Corsair mechanical gaming keyboard and the first thing I did was deactivate the LED backlighting.
I used to be a major fan of the Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000. At $45-50 (sometimes $25-30 on sale), it's got a decent feel with full-travel keys. No backlighting though, which is fine if you are a touch typist. However, I've had several of these. (I wear out the left shift and left control keys pretty often from gaming. The space bar started missing presses in another one.) In all of them, the lettering on the keycaps wears off fairly quickly. Mostly the WASD keys (again from gaming), but others as well. I've recently started using the Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard (LXM-00001), which also goes for about $45. I get the feeling this is the replacement for the Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000, but that's just the feeling as I noticed it harder to get the older model.
you mentioned this is your first ergo keyboard. You really need to pic up the microsoft sculpt keyboard. Its more mechanical and so smooth light and wireless. thanks for the review keep the great content coming
I'm so glad I learned to touch-type...way back in the mid '60s! (Long before the advent of personal computers LOL). I have used ergonomic keyboards and do like them, although my current keyboard is a standard one.
I know it`s an old video, but just bought one last week. It is really very confortable, but the "b" is also really hard to get used to. Normally I`d use the right thumb to click on it in a regular keyboard, and now I can`t. But man... It is the best keyboard I`ve ever had.
Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic keyboard user here - home and office. As much as I love all the colours mechanical keyboard, the comfort level of the ergo keyboard is just too hard to say goodbye to. And I can finally touch type "properly" on the split ergo keys. Took some adjusting and find it strange using a 'normal' keyboard (like on the laptop) - I'm just so accustomed to the split key now. This looks like an interesting proposition though.
I've used ergos in the dark for a decade. why should I not be requiring or wanting a backlight? I need it for the not often used keys my touch typing doesn't remember like the symbols above numbers or the shortcut keys (F keys) on top for mac shortcuts (i.e. launchpad). Logitech needs to do this keyboard like the MX Keys which I have now and add recharging and backlight. I'd pay $150 for it
@@OscarFURIOUS touch typing is pretty hard to get into when you've been typing a certain way since you were a child. I went from 65 WPM (not exactly a great WPM, but still decent) to like 20 WPM when I tried touch typing. Now to be fair I'm sure I'll get better over time, but it's like using your non dominant hand to write. Very frustrating.
7:32 "You still get a numpad, which is cool" ... No, no it's not cool at all. It's supposed to be an ergonomic keyboard and yet Logitech makes it wider by including a numpad. This should be a tenkeyless keyboard like the MS Sculpt, so that you decrease the distance you have to move your arm when switching from your mouse to typing on the keyboard. I could deal with no backlight and the insane price tag, but it having a numpad is a dealbreaker as an ergonomic keyboard.
It's nice that they put the feet under the wrist rest (a number of ergo keyboards still put it under the front edge😑), but it would be nice if the split was angled out more. It looks like it forces you to tuck your elbows too much.
To add lld backlighting would have been expensive. As it stands these ergonomic Keyboards are very reasonable given the research budget. The MS is Sculpt is my chosen weapon and it's amazing. The dongle isn't very durable so don't switch between pcs but as a KB +Mouse setup it's sublime. Luv and Peace.
I just bought the new Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard (an upgrade from their previous Ergonomic Keyboard 4000) - and I am loving it so far. I might have bought this if I was to switch now, but the Microsoft one is really good. If the Logitech had background lighting I would even consider replacing it now. Weird that they skipped lighting. Bu then again Microsoft did as well, and that is a wired one. I've used ergonomic keyboards for many years.
Nice review, as far as the foam goes I do not think it will be a problem, I have the Microsoft 4000 which has that same kind of hand rest and I have been using it for years with no breakdown whatsoever. Wish this was not so expensive, I bought a wireless straight keyboard for using the computer with my TV and I hate the straight keyboard with a passion, they hurt my hands quite a bit and whereas the ergonomic design gives me no pain at all. For that price it should have backlit keys.
After having like seven mechanical keyboards, from mx blues, to browns to reds and topres; I can say that my favorite keyboard is CM Novatouch (topre) with PBT keycaps and POK3R compact keyboard.
This is not that expensive when you realise what you get for your money. Matched with a good warranty. And if you think abaout the offices that are going to use these the most, battery life is so much more important than the backlighting. You would not want to worry about charging your keyboard every week.
I've used several ergo keyboards, and settled on the Microsoft Sculpt. Love it. As far as price on the Logitech one though, ergo keyboards do get expensive - think $2-300, or even $400, so that's probably why Logitech thinks they can get away with the price. Thing is, Microsoft's ergo keyboards are in the $40-70 price range, and offer pretty much the same damn thing, making this keyboard DOA.
I use the Kinesis Gaming keyboard. What I don't like about it is that it is split and I can adjust the tilt, but it not curved which I think would add a level of comfort for me.
I type much faster on a mechanical keyboard. But I prefer to type on the MS Sculpt. Just because I have to be more careful and precise, this makes me type slower and do next to none typing mistakes. While on the mechanical keyboard most of my types are typos. Fast typos!
Thanks, great review, even years later. Is there some alternative ergo-keyboard that has backlighting or even with RGB Led lighting, that is similar to this one?
I would say the second best ergo keyboard is the Microsoft Surface Ergonomic keyboard. For about 10 years i used the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 400. Then I tried the Microsoft Sculpt ...i did not like this one. I also tried Adesso Tru-form RGB ergo keyboard it was ok. I would need to use it more to see its It was just me.
Yes! I've been wanting to see more split keyboards in the market. :) I have bad RSI, I can't use a normal keyboard for more than a few minutes without pain. I've been using the Microsoft Sculpt keyboard for years. If Logitech accepts any feedback, I'd love to see a tenkeyless version. The extra distance the keypad adds to my right arms travel when switching between keyboard and mouse adds to my RSI pain. I'd also love to see a mechanical version. My Sculpt has low profile keys, and the I start noticing the travel distance being too short after long coding or gaming sessions. My ultimate dream keyboard is a version of the Kinesis Advantage 2 that lets your wrist rest at an angle instead of straight. Anyway, I hope this spurs more companies to try selling ergonomic keyboards. It's a market that needs a lot more competition.
I need to have the keypad as an accountant so I was forced to solve that issue by learning to mouse with my left hand. The reason for this is because I had developed nervous tension in my right arm and it got so bad my right arm and hand would go completely numb. It took me maybe 3 weeks to become proficient. So my “right” click is now a left click as I made my mouse a true left handed mouse. My nervous tension has gone away with physio and has not come back since I started mousing with my left hand and using an ergonomic keyboard. I use the cheap wired Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 at work and bought myself the Logitech Ergo K860 for working at home. I like them both but I think my preference is the feel of the Logitech one.
I've been using ergonomic keyboard from almost the start, from 1995 with the first Microsoft natural keyboard. I'm using Ms natural 4000 now. It's really strange to see that flat, box keyboards are dominating. It's really good that Logitech is joining the ergonomic competition. Thank you for the review.
I had the MS Natural 4000 & loved it. It's junk now (age). Apparently ergonomic keyboards don't sell well in India because I could find so few choices and they're all so overpriced. Plus, none of the seem to be backlit, really important for me since I often work in a dark-ish room with a little bit of indirect light falling on my desk.
Touch typing is something you can learn from a library book. I found a typewriter-based book at my library and went through it for a few weeks. My typing immediately improved, and it really clicked once I had to do a lot of writing for online classes. It IS about muscle memory, and some key movements such as using your left index finger for "B" are initially awkward, yet it's totally worth it. Especially if you know keyboard shortcuts for your operating system, your productivity improves DRAMATICALLY. It's not just that you don't need to look at your fingers, it's that you hardly need to use your mouse! You probably have no idea, but your keyboard can pretty much do it all, and it's a fun feeling. If I were you, I'd make touch typing a goal and get started on it today. Especially if enjoy life hacks or you fancy yourself a computer person, a gamer, or you work in an office. OMG, office people should HAVE TO learn touch typing, if just to make their life way EASIER. Anyway, best of luck.
Lately im on a self development streak and am learning typing the "proper" way this time after all these years typing with 2 fingers each hand. Thats why I bought the Microsoft sculpt wireless for 30 bucks used!
Having used my Belkin ergonomic keyboards for almost two decades, I can definitely say that they have saved me wrist and arm strain. I have to go back to standard keyboards from time to time, and after a couple of hours, I can definitely feel the strain. If you have learned to touch type, then adjusting back and forth to an ergo keyboard does indeed just take a few hours the first time, but not much time going back. All keyboards should be ergo designed! We don't need to keep pandering to mechanical movements designed to push a type bar against a paper page anymore.
The obsession with backlighting boggles my mind, if you care at all about ergonomics you'll be using it in an environment that is adequately lit, making the lack of backlighting a non issue.
Thanks, Eber. Great review. You kinda convinced me to try this out. Also cinematography is great, lighting is great. Colors so vivid and punchy! You guys so grew up. Really amazing.
Try the Microsoft Sculpt keyboard. It's even better and rid me of my growing carpal tunnel pain (feels like 20,000V shooting through your arm and hand at the slightest movement). And as a bonus the keypad is detached so you can chose where you want to have it. The foldable feet on the Logitech are not so much a good idea if your goal is to avoid injuries: for an optimal posture your finger tips should always be lower than your wrists, not just when you're standing, so your palm rest and the front of the keyboard should always be raised.
@@roilev I wasn't clear in my comment. I meant to say those feet should in fact be permanent instead of foldable. There's no point in buying an ergonomic keyboard if to not use one of it's key features.
Marketing with Alvin I love mine... except my alt key is failing. It’s under warranty but Microsoft’s warranty support on keyboards sucks. I spent an hour on hold. I’ll have to try again one of these days.
@@Rickmakes Yeah. Makes sense. Microsoft has never been known to offer good support. For the price, it is okay though. :) Maybe you just got a lemon. I'm not not a very heavy typist though.
I have one of these at home, for the longest time! And I had the multimedia ergo before it. Also went out and bought a used one for work, because flat keyboards suck to type on now!
Currently using Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Keyboard. I've been using MS ergonomic keyboards for a very long time (20+ years, since my student days). Very comfortable. All the pain in my wrists went away in a few days once I switched over to an ergo keyboard. For touch typists, I would say ergonomic keyboards (those with the split in the middle) all the way. Worth (almost) every penny.
As someone who used the original Natural Keyboard from Microsoft for something like seven years I have to say I thoroughly recommend people to try an ergonomic keyboard. It might not be for you, but you won't know unless you try one. One thing I found actually helped me improve my typing was the split nature of the keyboard. I never got any training in typing so was just shy of "hunt and peck" when I first started using the Natural Keyboard. The split forces you to use the correct hand when typing. For instance there is no way you can get away with using your left hand to type an "h" on a split keyboard. At the same time this can be a major disadvantage if you try to game on one. I'm not saying you can't game on a ergo keyboard, just that it can be less than optimal for gaming. Ergo keyboards seem to fall into two major categories. On one hand you have reasonably priced keyboards such as the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard and on the other hand you have expensive keyboards where there doesn't seem to be a limit to how much they can cost. There are also some very exotic looking ergonomic keyboards where they throw away the old QWERTY standard and create a layout they think is more logical. The more exotic the keyboard is the harder it will be to adapt to. Doesn't mean they are bad, just that it require more of an investment in the form of retraining. Then there are the type of keys used. Most ergo keyboards are using membrane switches, and are definitely not N-Key rollover capable. And that's one more point against using them for gaming. There are however some mechanical version though they tend to cost an arm and a leg. And I have no idea if there are any N-Key rollover capable ergo keyboards out there...
This video is on point and I'm looking foward to have ergonomic keyboard and mouse! Could you review the Miscrosoft sculpt ergonomic mouse and keyboard combo?
I don't know about the mouse, but I've been using the keyboard since October 2015, it's awesome, the palmrest shows where I put my palms (a little natural oil and dimples) but nothing serious. the keys feel nice and they're not noisy. My only complains are that I'd rather the bigger-squarish Enter key (it is exactly as the one on this video) and there isn't any indicator for the Caps Lock key I really love it.
Same here, 4+ years, my second sculpt keyboard now. The mouse was fine but not the greatest microsoft mouse by any means. I switched to Logitech Ergonomic trackball and it is much better for the wrist.
Do they plan making it 10keyless? I hate stretching my right arm to reach for the mouse (the Logitech ergonomic trackball in my case). I am currently using Microsoft Sculpt and I love it. But it has started having some connection issues and the palm rest is destroyed
I'm a touch typist, and I generally have little trouble adapting to different keyboards, even the particularly unusual ones like the Microsoft Mobile keyboard. I've extensive typing experience on a Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. They are very nice, but I still prefer my mechanical keyboards.
The ergonomics and quality of this keyboard are tough to beat. You should be aware, however, that they put the 6 key on the left side of the split. I believe that Microsoft made the same mistake with their ergo keyboard.
@@beanut.putter Since the time I posted that reply, I've done plenty of research on the topic. Some European nations actually teach touch typing to strike the 6 key with the left hand. Some keyboard designers put the 6 on the left because they think it looks better. But I can't see because I'm blind, so I don't really care what the keyboard looks like. And I learned to touch-type in Canada so I want to hit that 6 key with my right hand. Besides, it's a long reach to get there with my left. So, yes, I would be a lot happier if they would put the 6 on the right side of the split or put one on both sides of the split. Of course, I could use the number pad, but since I use that for navigating with my screen reader, I would have to switch it back and forth and keep track of which mode it is in because I can't see the indicator LED.
I am using MS Sculpt. Such shape really saved my hands from pain. I hate only a couple of things in my kb - awful Fn keys (they are not scissor-switch) and bad location of Home/End/PgUp/PgDown. I would try K860 ergo, but the price...
Logitech really needs to combine this keyboard with the MX Keys. So the layout, wrist rest and ergonomics of this keyboard but using the indented keys and backlighting from the MX Keys. They should lose the ambient sensor option as there have been many reported issues with it. Just allow people to set the level of lighting they prefer and the ability to choose a custom timeout for the lighting when the keyboard is not in use. With the added backlighting it would also preferrably be rechargeable via USB-C. If the Ergo K860 and MX Keys had a full size baby then I would pay the higher price. Until that happens I likely won't purchase either of them. C'mon Logitech ... this video is over 3 years old ... GET ON IT! 😜
I've been using Ergonomical keyboards since the 90's. I'm here since i just ordered the K860 (my previous ergonomical keyboard is giving issues with my left shift key). Still can't understand why you keep telling them that the price is so high.... Buying a desk what can go up and down is fine (what cost honderds if not thousand more) for a good posture. Or people pay extra so there keyboard gives light. To me comfort and making sure I can last decades behind my computer write code (already doing it for couple) but what is expensive is getting in serious discomfort and therefor injured (RSI). Some of my friends did learn how to type DVORAK instead of QWERTY still a skill I want to master one of these days. For the rest I do understand the fact they didn't go for the light features... they want to attract this keyboard to offices (where people type for hours in a day). How cool some people think RGB looks it's not seen in many offices. In that setting people will not take you that serious and think you took a toy to work. I totally agree that if you don't know how to type blind this might be a hard one. I would advice everybody who didn't learn how to type blind (or keyboarding) should take some courses... it's totally worth and pays itself back faster then you might think.
My desk is covered in all sorts of gaming gizmo's and wahoos, EXCEPT for the keyboard which is the MS Ergo Sculpt... I've tried standard/ mechanical keybds and I can't go back. I will forever be using an ergonomic keyboard until someone invents a working neural interface.
because i game after I work, I use an ergo split keyboard + a trackball mouse for work while a regular keyboard + mouse for gaming. I think it helps a lot as it mixes things up. No longer am I doing the exact same motions all day, every day.
The only trouble I'm having is the "6" key being on the left side. I learned to type "6" with my right index finger. Other than that, this is potentially replacing my MX Keys (which I actually just got, lol). The ERGO K860 is a really nice keyboard! As for lacking backlighting, it's disappointing, but I really don't need it. I always have a desk lamp and I'm a touch typist.
Been using an ergonomics keyboard for years, with the latest being the K860 the past few months. And I love this keyboard. Being able to connect to a pc and a Mac and my iPad, has been awesome. the feel is great and very comfortable. Funny how you mentioned its a large keyboard, look at the ms 4000. I found this KB has a great design and use of space. Best KB I’ve used in long while. Enjoy the channel, great reviews.
Same here I loved my microsoft sculpt keyboard but I noticed that when I'm gaming there is like some kind of delay? of some sort that I could feel... so I went back to mechanical keyboard. This K860 being released in 2020 gives me hope that I won't experience the same lagging feel when I'm gaming. I'm going to get this keyboard and try it out
I swear by ergo keyboards. I've used a Microsoft Natural (the old white one), a Natural 4000 (the black and silver one, still just $40-50 online), and now an Ergodox-EZ Glow. RGB, mechanical, 76-key, with socketed switches so you can replace them with whatever Kailh BOX you prefer. I've got Thick Golds (clicky, almost "poppy") but I'm debating BOX Navy since I keep hitting keys by accident. Getting used to an Ergo of any form definitely makes switching back to a traditional layout less than ideal, though.
Chris Frizzell I have the non Glow with Kailh Gold, blank PBT keycaps and type on the Colemak ModDH layout and it’s a dream. I can switch keyboards fine but I always find myself disappointed when not on my ergodox. I HATE staggered rows now.
a number of my colleagues use a split keyboard from kinesis. its a bit different, but you can configure it similarly with risers in the middle. i think its a few hundred usd
@@insertnamehere6559 I've only seen rly expensive options and didn't know this was a thing cus I don't rly like ergo keyboards but this is rly nice for the price
5:33 The wrist rest actually is detachable, you unscrew it from the back. All we'd need is Logitech to sell the wrist rest separately as a piece that you can swap out. :)
Battery life is INSANE! Now you know why there's no back lighting. This has been my work keyboard for the past year and it has helped my hands out even though I've had a busy year. Totally recommended. $130 is nothing compared to going through carpal tunnel release surgery. Take care of yourself.
Honestly logitech has some of the best mice and keyboards that excell at battery life!
but it is membrane for that price
@@zmangormz Its scissor switch - in my opinion the best switch there is. Mechanical is just a hype.
I must be old. When I was in school we had to take a mandatory "keyboarding" class. Looking back, I'm glad I did. I can't imagine what it's like to sit down in front of a keyboard and not know where the keys are!
I must be older. When I was in high school we took a "typing" class using mechanical typewriters. AAA BBB CCC..... I had never heard of the term "keyboarding" at that time. LOL!!
I'm a youngster who sadly never properly learned to type so I just use basically 4 of my fingers flying all over the place. My typing speed isn't bad (85WPM) but I'm scared of repetitive strain injuries. I figured it'd be pretty hard to relearn how to type but not much harder if I just learned an entirely new keyboard layout so I decided to learn Dvorak.
Anyway, I'm disappointed it isn't a mandatory course (or a course at all in my case) anymore. I could've saved myself a lot of time and effort that way.
I had this annoying colleague at work that loved coming to my desk and trying stuff at my PC. I bought 10keyless cherry brown mechanical switches keyboard, with no markings on the keys! This keyboard alone stopped him annoying me!
In another office we had this april fool where they changed the keys on the keyboards. The caps were easy to remove and shuffle. After 3 months one colleague noticed that I still haven't switched back my keys -- I haven't noticed it at all
@@SirT0M1 It's all the same. Kind of like how "gym class" has turned into "Physical Education. I had to sit at the keyboard with a piece of paper over my fingers to learn how to type. AAA BBB CCC. haha
I am probably one of the youngest amongst the comment section. I'm 15 turning 16 and the thing is, my wrist pain and hands were aching nonstop and due to the lockdown, it worsened to the point that I couldn't even eat properly. I bought the ergo keyboard a few days ago and it just came in two days ago and I love it. I guess I'm more of a touch typist, but I still do make mistakes because I don't really have the whole layout memorized. This is also my first ergo keyboard and I can tell you that I work at night with the lights ON so I do not find it a dealbreaker if it does not have backlighting. I found this to be expensive, but in the long term, this is a much better solution. Now I'm waiting for my ergonomic mouse. BTW the pain has lessened like crazy for me so this keyboard is a lifesaver.
Thanks Tanisha :)
im 3
For anyone who might read this: if you want to learn to touch type, look into mnemonics! It's possible - and easy - to memorize the qwerty layout in 7h (breaks included) + some extra hours to gain speed. I couldn't believe that would work, when my parents signed me up for a 1-day course of that type. My siblings later visited the same course and thats how we learned touch typing.
One thing though: it's a soft programming of muscle memory, so if you use your past typing scheme in the first few days after the course, you completely ruin it. So be careful and patient or straight out put the course in your holidays.
Yeah, you can get used to anything. I don't have this, but I do have a split keyboard. At first it was weird, now it is harder going back to regular keyboards than using the split one.
Considering your age, I highly feel that the reasoning for your wrist ache is due to you not properly positioning your wrist when you use a keyboard. This ergo keyboard would help because the wrist rest and shape forces your hand to be positioned correctly. I'm glad the keyboard helps you solve the issue but I still recommend you looking into how to properly positioned, not only your wrist, but perhaps your desk height as well.
Typing on my Microsoft Sculpt. Happy to report that this is everything I'd want in a successor. LED backlighting is unnecessary for me, as touch typing is the goal with these. Having that 10-key built in will be nice, the Sculpt has one as a separate device which has never felt convenient. Being able to switch from three devices right from the keyboard is the killer feature. Definitely waiting for a sale on one of these.
Also typing on the MS Sculpt. My biggest complaints are that the switches under the function keys are terrible, and there's a slider switch to switch between the fn keys and the shortcuts instead of the usual button.
I disagree with the 10key being built in. The sculpt is already large for a TKL, as well as this ergo. I like neutral spacing of my arms for ergonomics. With this, you're forced into angling your arms outward if you are using both mouse and keyboard. I often use the wireless 10 key to the right of my mouse actually. And for the truly adventurous, you could place it at the left side to be used with your left hand instead.
If I ever get into more keyboard heavy work I could see myself using this, but not currently. This will probably great for programmers and excel gurus that know their hotkeys.
The numpad stays nice in the space between the two parts, in front of the keyboard. I rarely use it anyway, only for entering large numbers
The Sculpt has done well for me in general. I agree with the switches under the function keys. In the beginning I experienced a few weird issues that these keys would get stuck as well. I eventually stopped using these keys. And it seems the device is a bit sensitive for interference. Especially positioning my OnePlus in the center of the palm rest keystrokes aren't registered. All minor details though...
I thinks it's good for office and everyday use but not for gaming. I have one in my office and there are hicups now and then due to the wireless.
I have used the wired Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 since about 2004 or 2005. As a full-time programmer it was a lifesaver on my wrists. Never had a problem with carpal tunnel. It's kind of clunky looking compared to today's fancy ergonomic keyboards, but it is a total workhorse and only about $30-40 on Amazon. In fact, I am still using the same physical keyboard. That's how sturdy it is.
My first Ergo keyboard from the MS 4000 as well
Regarding sit/stand desk:
Don't think too much about it. Just get a normal motorised stand with at least 2 or 3 Memory Functions. Some even remind you by changing positions from time to time. That way you can choose a table.. plate I guess? that fits to your taste and feeling, try different materials and if it gets worn out just change the plate. Most of these stands also have cable management. I'd recommend a Monitor holder with arms and tilt, a holder for your computer under the table so the pc changes position with you, some cable channels and there are table feedthroughs with usb ports, 3.5mm jacks or card readers which are pretty useful too. You can stick fingerprint readers in those for easy access. Also you can sink induction chargers into the plate to charge devices really easy and "natural". Mounting the power outlet strip under the table also makes sense. Last thing don't forget to buy loooong cables for every device.
Oh and sorry for my english
I use this keyboard for work and I absolutely love it. Prior to this keyboard I was using the Microsoft ergonomic keyboard and although that keyboard will forever have a special place in my heart, this keyboard is a HUGE upgrade.
My dude, you didn't even mention how the keys feel, the pressure needed to depress them, or what the tactile experience of actually typing is like. That's an unbelievable oversight.
These are really great boards, but I'd love to see the MX Mechanical come in a layout like this, or a TKL + Backlight. The MX Keys do last a long time, albeit not as long as the k860. Backlights help when you are working in the early morning or late at night with lights off or dimmed, even as a touch typist. Ditching the numpad or including it as a split option would further increase ergonomics for those that don't need it regularly.
I use a Microsoft 4000 Ergonomic keyboard & have for around 25 years. I have 4 kids & they all hate it. But I love it. I use it at home & at work. I am a typist so I don't have to look at the keys. It is comfortable & I've never had a wrist problem. I know many people where they do a lot of typing at their job & they have wrist issues. I also use a mouse pad with a wrist pad.
I'm currently using the Microsoft Sculpt ergo keyboard - love it. This is quite nice - I tried the MX Keys keyboard and loved everything about it - so presumably it's the same travel etc in a ergo layout... I will probably try it.
bought one of these off of ebay - this week nearly new for an amazing price. I am a touch typist and have been on it since it arrived today. LOVE IT. watched your video after the purchase but looks like other than the price it was a thumbs up for you -- as it is for me. the led missing is not an issue - as i touch type and rarely look at the key board i paid about 75% 'less than the full price so pretty good investment from my prospective. most importantly my wrists have never felt better.
If you took any type of typing course the ergonomic keyboards will actually let you type faster and type longer.
Chyrosran22: "eew take that disgusting away from me"
He would be cussing every 3 words at this
*disgusting*
UNACCEPTABLEEEEEeeeeeEe
@@yomurita What do you mean he would be cussing? That British gentleman paints with words?! 😁
@@czdot Very tuberculosis, as he'd say
Yeah... I'm a touch typest, and use the right hand to press the B key, this board would throw me off.
EDIT: LED backlighting can still be really helpful. Even though I can type pretty well, I don't recall some of the symbols, with layouts and regions changing things up. If I'm also working in a dark room it can help find my home row.
Work in a well lit room. Dark room is nerdy but not helping your eyes. I have two desk lamps behind my monitor illuminating the wall behind it. And LED strip around the walls to create shadowless but bright illumination.
Have been thinking of trying these for years, and got a Kensington "Orbit Fusion" ergonomic trackball mouse half a year ago, that convinced me that ergonomic stuff is NOT just gimmick..! I needed a new keyboard, and just found the "iiglo ERGO Kx" at black friday sale for $10 (normal price is $70 here in Norway). Cant wait to try it 😁
Update: Just got it, and it is definitely more comfortable than my old keyboard, but the button layout is a bit different, so it will take some getting used to. The "Y" shaped curve of each side of the keyboard makes the backspace a bit higher up compared to what im used to, so i often hit the Enter key instead. But i just started using it maybe an hour ago, so im sure ill get used to it pretty quickly. Ive never tried a palmrest before, but i like it a LOT 😊
I've been using the Logitech K860 for over ten months now.
The 6/^ key is on the wrong side of the split.
The feet for raising the wrist rest are fragile and are long gone.
The key action and shape of the keyboard are excellent.
The lack of any keyboard backlighting means that I'm still using the original batteries that came with the keyboard,
I have some carple tunnel starting up in my right wrist but this condition has improved since I started using this keyboard.
Although I would really like Logitech to put the 6 key on the right-hand side of the split where it belongs, I still recommend this keyboard.
The price, for a wireless keyboard of this quality, with dual capability for dongle or Bluetooth capability is an excellent value.
About the LED - that's also my rant when I bought a Logitech K380 keyboard as a temporary 'reliever' away from mechanical keyboard, but after only 2 days, I'd much rather have no led for it. You'll just get that good feel of typing with it without looking as much as possible :)
Looks like a great keyboard, but I’m still waiting for a tenkeyless version
not a ms fanboy, sculpt is great tho.
Keyboards that are ergonomic that are better than that:
XD75 re
Ergodox / Iris/Sol etc.
Tgr alice and clones
Ymdk sp64/sp84
Dactl and Dactl Manuform
asthmaticrhino underrated comment
@moo I agree with most of what you're saying, the alice is probably the least ergonomic of the bunch, but having typed for more than a week on a scuplt vs. daily driving an XD75, it's a really low bar. I spent 20 minutes typing on a friend's alice and I'd say it's still about as good as the sculpt, despite not having tenting.
The best ergodox's I've felt are actually the ones they sell with the fully scuplted keycaps. Once you put a DSA set on them they take a hit to the comfort.
If I had to do a ranking to "ergonomic-ness" I'd probably go datctl, iris, ergodox, then the split keebs, then the xd75, then the alice.
That being said, everyone has different wrists, and the further it is from what people know, the harder it will be to adjust. I would say something like a Mistrel staggered split with a good set of wrists rests would alleviate a large amount of typing strain for a lot of people without having to go all out on a Manuform and learn a completely new way of typing.
Been using the MS 4000 for over 5 years at work and home. Have worn the letters off many of the keys. Had carpal tunnel(?) before, this keyboard saved my bacon.
Very nice review, though I wish a little more discussion about how the keys feel and how loud they are in an office environment would've been nice. I've been using Microsoft ergonomic keyboards for years, starting with the Microsoft Natural Keyboard 4000. I'm currently using the Microsoft Sculpt keyboard, which is definitely a love/hate relationship (love the wireless connectivity, hate the smaller Function (F) keys on the top row). I would never go back to standard keyboards, since I'm always in front of a computer coding.
The new Logitech K860 keyboard looks great! I'm going to pick it up and see how it compares with the Microsoft Sculpt. I'm already using the Logitech MX Master 3 mouse, so this keyboard will pair nicely with it and save a USB port.
If it had backlighting I would preorder it right now. Have the Logitech MX Keys now and love it but came from a logitech keyboard on a PC (now using imac). I work in darker environment so need backlit keys. If Logitech adds backlighting and recharging like MX keys keyboard consider it sold! Let's hope they do
I’ve been eyeing ergo keyboards this week, so I’m glad you uploaded this. Think I’m going to get it.
Use the Microsoft Ergo Keyboard at work and Corsair Strafe Mechanical at home. I can feel pain/fatigue any time I have an extended typing period on a normal keyboard now but not on the ergo ones. Love the ergo design and once you get used to it you definitely type better on it than you do on the regular design.
Price is way too high compared to what Microsoft has.
Backlighting is not as big of a deal, Logitech’s main customer here is a well lit office.
If you want a mechanical ergo keyboard. Get an Alice layout keyboard (60% ergo mechanical).
I love Logitech gear and am glad to see them selling something like this. Thank you Ebert. I will be going to a store and trying this keyboard for my own typing experience. (:
They've sold products like this for years, I'm still waiting for an update to my beloved MK550 Wave. Having bought a G915 TKL, I love it but I would still love an updated Wave.
@@DarrenKrusi Good to know. I can look at the used market as well, thank you.
@@WarriorsPhoto You should still be able to buy the Wave in retail stores. There's a Comfort keyboard which just has opposite sides of the keyboard sloping but that's all it does. I will say that the Mouse that comes with the Wave combo is not that great, it's rear heavy and you feel it when picking it up.
@@DarrenKrusi I am looking for a nice keyboard for when mine goes out. Whenever that'll be. Thank you for the input.
BTW, any mechanical keyboards you know of that are Mac specific?
This is the better version of the cherry ergo keyboard. I bought the cherry a few years ago and was able to get the ergo later. the ergo is by far the better keyboard in so many ways. If you 'd like to try ergo, go with the cherry until you get used to it, but I think getting the logi ergo as a first is great.
This looks awesome. And God love them for putting the risers on the front instead of the back. I'd have probably gone with this if I didn't already have a Kinesis Pro. Thanks for the review!
I JUST purchased this keyboard. If you “type”, then you’ll have no problem adjusting. This isn’t my first ergonomic keyboard, and I’m a traditional typist (they actually had that class in high school back in the 80’s). Going back forth to regular keyboards has never been a problem for me. I was hesitant paying $130. But, I’ve purchased and returned several over the past few months. All cost less than this keyboard, and none had all the features of this keyboard. So, maybe it IS worth the $129 price...?
I use the Microsoft Sculpt ergonomic keyboard. I love it. I had some wrist pain from typing on a Macbook for my software development job and the ergonomic keyboard made such a positive impact.
Good quality video review if I've ever seen one. Just ordered to give it a try as my daily work keyboard. Agreed on the absence of any backlighting (usually wired keyboards), but I can live with that for daylight work just fine. For low light / gaming I'll probably just switch up. Thanks for the great review!
When I was working in a job where I spent all day at a keyboard - I was rocking a Microsoft Ergonomic 4000. Also used it for gaming (MMO nothing heavy).
Great and thoughtful review.
One item that is missing in the review is keystrokes noise factor.
I love my Kinesis Freestyle Edge and Kinesis Freestyle Blue. I use the Freestyle Blue at work where not having the back light is not really an issue, but I love the Freestyle Edge at home where i can use it in a dark room without any issues.
I use both keyboards at shoulder width apart, which is what I really love about these keyboards. It really helped with dealing with shoulder and elbow pain.
I have been using the Freestyle Blue for about 4 years now and I still love it. I have found I have a little issue with switch from my laptop keyboard to the Freestyles, but they are similar enough it is not much of an issue.
I would love to see a review on the MX Ergo or another ergonomic mouse, this type of device make a great difference to healthy
I use the MX ergo, I find the tilt to be worth the cost compared to the Logitech M570. The ball is a little more firmly secured in the socket which actually I don't prefer because it makes it a little harder to clean, but overall I still prefer the mx ergo. The resolution is quite tight, and there's a precision mode button. It works nicely with both bluetooth and the "unifying receiver" . I have won games of apex legends and starcraft 2 using it, so you can still game with it. I don't have an ergo keyboard but I do have an ergo mouse, and part of that is all the motion that goes into a mouse. I was developing carpal tunnel and I have done some stretches to help mitigate and manage it and that has been helpful but I do see a trackball mouse such as the MX ergo as a good way to constructively respond to it. Personally I also enjoy carrying the MX Ergo with me to use with my laptop, you will get some funny looks but it is really nice having a full desk experience without requiring a full desk worth of space (the mouse doesn't have to move). For me my strategy of reducing travel distance has been helpful in managing my symptoms, obviously your mileage may vary. I do find that the angle of the mx ergo is a substantial improvement to the m570, which I still think is a good choice to affordably cut back on repetitive stress. If you can afford it get the mx ergo, if you can't then try the m570. Either one will be a marked improvement over a traditional mouse in my experience and opinion.
As a touch typist, I don’t care about keyboard backlighting. In fact, I have a Corsair mechanical gaming keyboard and the first thing I did was deactivate the LED backlighting.
I used to be a major fan of the Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000. At $45-50 (sometimes $25-30 on sale), it's got a decent feel with full-travel keys. No backlighting though, which is fine if you are a touch typist. However, I've had several of these. (I wear out the left shift and left control keys pretty often from gaming. The space bar started missing presses in another one.) In all of them, the lettering on the keycaps wears off fairly quickly. Mostly the WASD keys (again from gaming), but others as well. I've recently started using the Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard (LXM-00001), which also goes for about $45. I get the feeling this is the replacement for the Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000, but that's just the feeling as I noticed it harder to get the older model.
you mentioned this is your first ergo keyboard. You really need to pic up the microsoft sculpt keyboard. Its more mechanical and so smooth light and wireless. thanks for the review keep the great content coming
I'm so glad I learned to touch-type...way back in the mid '60s! (Long before the advent of personal computers LOL). I have used ergonomic keyboards and do like them, although my current keyboard is a standard one.
I know it`s an old video, but just bought one last week. It is really very confortable, but the "b" is also really hard to get used to. Normally I`d use the right thumb to click on it in a regular keyboard, and now I can`t. But man... It is the best keyboard I`ve ever had.
Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic keyboard user here - home and office. As much as I love all the colours mechanical keyboard, the comfort level of the ergo keyboard is just too hard to say goodbye to. And I can finally touch type "properly" on the split ergo keys. Took some adjusting and find it strange using a 'normal' keyboard (like on the laptop) - I'm just so accustomed to the split key now. This looks like an interesting proposition though.
A little gatekeeping here:
Someone using an ergonomic keyboard should not be requiring backlight since you should not be typing in the dark.
Xoron aesthetics
I've used ergos in the dark for a decade. why should I not be requiring or wanting a backlight? I need it for the not often used keys my touch typing doesn't remember like the symbols above numbers or the shortcut keys (F keys) on top for mac shortcuts (i.e. launchpad). Logitech needs to do this keyboard like the MX Keys which I have now and add recharging and backlight. I'd pay $150 for it
2:40 That's my biggest worry about this keyboard. I'm used to switching hands when pressing the center keys.
Touch typing
@@OscarFURIOUS touch typing is pretty hard to get into when you've been typing a certain way since you were a child. I went from 65 WPM (not exactly a great WPM, but still decent) to like 20 WPM when I tried touch typing. Now to be fair I'm sure I'll get better over time, but it's like using your non dominant hand to write. Very frustrating.
7:32 "You still get a numpad, which is cool" ... No, no it's not cool at all. It's supposed to be an ergonomic keyboard and yet Logitech makes it wider by including a numpad. This should be a tenkeyless keyboard like the MS Sculpt, so that you decrease the distance you have to move your arm when switching from your mouse to typing on the keyboard. I could deal with no backlight and the insane price tag, but it having a numpad is a dealbreaker as an ergonomic keyboard.
It's nice that they put the feet under the wrist rest (a number of ergo keyboards still put it under the front edge😑), but it would be nice if the split was angled out more. It looks like it forces you to tuck your elbows too much.
I use the Microsoft ergonomic 4000 keyboard. It is wired but is great. It works on both windows and Mac but is more suited for windows computers
To add lld backlighting would have been expensive. As it stands these ergonomic Keyboards are very reasonable given the research budget.
The MS is Sculpt is my chosen weapon and it's amazing. The dongle isn't very durable so don't switch between pcs but as a KB +Mouse setup it's sublime.
Luv and Peace.
I just bought the new Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard (an upgrade from their previous Ergonomic Keyboard 4000) - and I am loving it so far. I might have bought this if I was to switch now, but the Microsoft one is really good. If the Logitech had background lighting I would even consider replacing it now. Weird that they skipped lighting. Bu then again Microsoft did as well, and that is a wired one.
I've used ergonomic keyboards for many years.
finally a more ergo-oriented product. please keep it up and refine on it, Logi
Nice review, as far as the foam goes I do not think it will be a problem, I have the Microsoft 4000 which has that same kind of hand rest and I have been using it for years with no breakdown whatsoever. Wish this was not so expensive, I bought a wireless straight keyboard for using the computer with my TV and I hate the straight keyboard with a passion, they hurt my hands quite a bit and whereas the ergonomic design gives me no pain at all. For that price it should have backlit keys.
After having like seven mechanical keyboards, from mx blues, to browns to reds and topres; I can say that my favorite keyboard is CM Novatouch (topre) with PBT keycaps and POK3R compact keyboard.
For a standing desk I'd recommend a Vivo, they have any number of different styles and my electric one has been running great for a while.
nothing beats the logitech k350
that thing is a classic
The BENQ screen bar solves the backlight issue.
This is not that expensive when you realise what you get for your money. Matched with a good warranty. And if you think abaout the offices that are going to use these the most, battery life is so much more important than the backlighting. You would not want to worry about charging your keyboard every week.
Great video. Thanks for your analyse
I've used several ergo keyboards, and settled on the Microsoft Sculpt. Love it. As far as price on the Logitech one though, ergo keyboards do get expensive - think $2-300, or even $400, so that's probably why Logitech thinks they can get away with the price. Thing is, Microsoft's ergo keyboards are in the $40-70 price range, and offer pretty much the same damn thing, making this keyboard DOA.
Try the uplift desk, it's pretty good for the price. Bought a standing desk over the holiday season.
If you think that this keyboard is the most comfortable you've ever used, then you should definitely look into the ergodox EZ
2:22 The flex is true, Also love the svidish pad.
Nice review...i really like a split keyboard, especially one from Logi with UNIVERSAL receiver.
I use the Kinesis Gaming keyboard. What I don't like about it is that it is split and I can adjust the tilt, but it not curved which I think would add a level of comfort for me.
Logitech please make a mechanical version
Drake it would probably be uncomfortable unless they using something like choc switches or else it would be too tall
@@DC-lk8en :)
I type much faster on a mechanical keyboard. But I prefer to type on the MS Sculpt. Just because I have to be more careful and precise, this makes me type slower and do next to none typing mistakes. While on the mechanical keyboard most of my types are typos. Fast typos!
@@roilev I understand that
If you really plan on ditching your entire mechanical keyboard collection, please let me know. I would love to purchase some of that amazing stuff.
Thanks, great review, even years later.
Is there some alternative ergo-keyboard that has backlighting or even with RGB Led lighting, that is similar to this one?
I would say the second best ergo keyboard is the Microsoft Surface Ergonomic keyboard. For about 10 years i used the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 400. Then I tried the Microsoft Sculpt ...i did not like this one. I also tried Adesso Tru-form RGB ergo keyboard it was ok. I would need to use it more to see its It was just me.
The character application is the cheapest that can be. The ergo price tag is damn high these days.
Ergonomic is kind of a no brainer if all you do is write. Any serious writer/typist should use training websites and re-learn to touch type properly.
Yes! I've been wanting to see more split keyboards in the market. :) I have bad RSI, I can't use a normal keyboard for more than a few minutes without pain. I've been using the Microsoft Sculpt keyboard for years. If Logitech accepts any feedback, I'd love to see a tenkeyless version. The extra distance the keypad adds to my right arms travel when switching between keyboard and mouse adds to my RSI pain. I'd also love to see a mechanical version. My Sculpt has low profile keys, and the I start noticing the travel distance being too short after long coding or gaming sessions. My ultimate dream keyboard is a version of the Kinesis Advantage 2 that lets your wrist rest at an angle instead of straight. Anyway, I hope this spurs more companies to try selling ergonomic keyboards. It's a market that needs a lot more competition.
and a trackball in the middle with switch to change to scroll mode and of course with left right buttons.
I go to PAX every year and talk to peripheral vendors and push ergo keyboards. It's 2019.
I need to have the keypad as an accountant so I was forced to solve that issue by learning to mouse with my left hand. The reason for this is because I had developed nervous tension in my right arm and it got so bad my right arm and hand would go completely numb. It took me maybe 3 weeks to become proficient. So my “right” click is now a left click as I made my mouse a true left handed mouse. My nervous tension has gone away with physio and has not come back since I started mousing with my left hand and using an ergonomic keyboard. I use the cheap wired Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 at work and bought myself the Logitech Ergo K860 for working at home. I like them both but I think my preference is the feel of the Logitech one.
@@michaelknight2897 Thank you!
I agree. This keyboard is way too big. Most people don't need a keypad.
I've been using ergonomic keyboard from almost the start, from 1995 with the first Microsoft natural keyboard. I'm using Ms natural 4000 now. It's really strange to see that flat, box keyboards are dominating. It's really good that Logitech is joining the ergonomic competition. Thank you for the review.
I don't think they realize the reason they went out of use, because people were damaging their wrists.
I had the MS Natural 4000 & loved it. It's junk now (age). Apparently ergonomic keyboards don't sell well in India because I could find so few choices and they're all so overpriced. Plus, none of the seem to be backlit, really important for me since I often work in a dark-ish room with a little bit of indirect light falling on my desk.
MS never produced ergonomic keyboards, you better stop lying to yourself.
@@DeepfriedBaby what went out of style? Mechanical keyboards?
Next: Gaming ergo keyboard!
Tell him to review the $2000 TGR Alice
@@spidermain $2000 for keyboard... Sorry! I like membrane 😏
G edition
@@fardinzaman6631 Alice clones cost 300 so it's probably worth it for him.
@@spidermain yup!
Touch typing is something you can learn from a library book. I found a typewriter-based book at my library and went through it for a few weeks. My typing immediately improved, and it really clicked once I had to do a lot of writing for online classes.
It IS about muscle memory, and some key movements such as using your left index finger for "B" are initially awkward, yet it's totally worth it.
Especially if you know keyboard shortcuts for your operating system, your productivity improves DRAMATICALLY. It's not just that you don't need to look at your fingers, it's that you hardly need to use your mouse! You probably have no idea, but your keyboard can pretty much do it all, and it's a fun feeling.
If I were you, I'd make touch typing a goal and get started on it today. Especially if enjoy life hacks or you fancy yourself a computer person, a gamer, or you work in an office. OMG, office people should HAVE TO learn touch typing, if just to make their life way EASIER.
Anyway, best of luck.
Lately im on a self development streak and am learning typing the "proper" way this time after all these years typing with 2 fingers each hand. Thats why I bought the Microsoft sculpt wireless for 30 bucks used!
Having used my Belkin ergonomic keyboards for almost two decades, I can definitely say that they have saved me wrist and arm strain. I have to go back to standard keyboards from time to time, and after a couple of hours, I can definitely feel the strain. If you have learned to touch type, then adjusting back and forth to an ergo keyboard does indeed just take a few hours the first time, but not much time going back.
All keyboards should be ergo designed! We don't need to keep pandering to mechanical movements designed to push a type bar against a paper page anymore.
If it would be in TKL version and will have backlight I would be happy to replace my Microsoft Sculpt keyboard :/
I used an ergonomic keyboard at a firm in the 90s, and I miss it like an old hot boyfriend.
I love PC gaming but I've never bothered with mechanical keyboards. Currently on a MS Sculpt, and I love it! Had an MS Ergonomic 4000 before that.
Legit same. I had my 4000 for years. I even busted the space bar but still kept it for years and last year bought the Sculpt which was on sale.
There are also ergonomic split mechanical keyboards. You can adjust the height at each corner and don't have the angle fixed.
@@Adrian-jn9ov They cost so much money though.
The obsession with backlighting boggles my mind, if you care at all about ergonomics you'll be using it in an environment that is adequately lit, making the lack of backlighting a non issue.
Thanks, Eber. Great review.
You kinda convinced me to try this out.
Also cinematography is great, lighting is great. Colors so vivid and punchy!
You guys so grew up. Really amazing.
Try the Microsoft Sculpt keyboard. It's even better and rid me of my growing carpal tunnel pain (feels like 20,000V shooting through your arm and hand at the slightest movement). And as a bonus the keypad is detached so you can chose where you want to have it.
The foldable feet on the Logitech are not so much a good idea if your goal is to avoid injuries: for an optimal posture your finger tips should always be lower than your wrists, not just when you're standing, so your palm rest and the front of the keyboard should always be raised.
That's what the raising feet does. They are in the lower part of the keyboard, not on the higher where they usually are.
@@roilev I wasn't clear in my comment. I meant to say those feet should in fact be permanent instead of foldable. There's no point in buying an ergonomic keyboard if to not use one of it's key features.
@@mururoa7024 I agree. But still, some customizations are welcome
I'd recommend the Microsoft Ergo 4000 keyboard. $40.. 5 macro keys. :) Been using it for 3 years now and I work 12-14 hours a day. :D
Marketing with Alvin I love mine... except my alt key is failing. It’s under warranty but Microsoft’s warranty support on keyboards sucks. I spent an hour on hold. I’ll have to try again one of these days.
@@Rickmakes Yeah. Makes sense. Microsoft has never been known to offer good support. For the price, it is okay though. :) Maybe you just got a lemon. I'm not not a very heavy typist though.
Mine has issues on Windows 10 so I can't use it there but it works fine on Linux so go figure.
@@Montisaquadeis Weird. I use Windows 10 with no issues whatsoever. I did have to download Microsoft Mouse and Keyboard Center.
I have one of these at home, for the longest time! And I had the multimedia ergo before it. Also went out and bought a used one for work, because flat keyboards suck to type on now!
Currently using Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Keyboard.
I've been using MS ergonomic keyboards for a very long time (20+ years, since my student days).
Very comfortable. All the pain in my wrists went away in a few days once I switched over to an ergo keyboard.
For touch typists, I would say ergonomic keyboards (those with the split in the middle) all the way. Worth (almost) every penny.
Hows button press volume compared to Surface Ergonomic Keyboard?
Or any info on typing volume at all?
As someone who used the original Natural Keyboard from Microsoft for something like seven years I have to say I thoroughly recommend people to try an ergonomic keyboard. It might not be for you, but you won't know unless you try one.
One thing I found actually helped me improve my typing was the split nature of the keyboard. I never got any training in typing so was just shy of "hunt and peck" when I first started using the Natural Keyboard. The split forces you to use the correct hand when typing. For instance there is no way you can get away with using your left hand to type an "h" on a split keyboard. At the same time this can be a major disadvantage if you try to game on one. I'm not saying you can't game on a ergo keyboard, just that it can be less than optimal for gaming.
Ergo keyboards seem to fall into two major categories. On one hand you have reasonably priced keyboards such as the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard and on the other hand you have expensive keyboards where there doesn't seem to be a limit to how much they can cost.
There are also some very exotic looking ergonomic keyboards where they throw away the old QWERTY standard and create a layout they think is more logical. The more exotic the keyboard is the harder it will be to adapt to. Doesn't mean they are bad, just that it require more of an investment in the form of retraining.
Then there are the type of keys used. Most ergo keyboards are using membrane switches, and are definitely not N-Key rollover capable. And that's one more point against using them for gaming. There are however some mechanical version though they tend to cost an arm and a leg. And I have no idea if there are any N-Key rollover capable ergo keyboards out there...
This video is on point and I'm looking foward to have ergonomic keyboard and mouse!
Could you review the Miscrosoft sculpt ergonomic mouse and keyboard combo?
I don't know about the mouse, but I've been using the keyboard since October 2015, it's awesome, the palmrest shows where I put my palms (a little natural oil and dimples) but nothing serious. the keys feel nice and they're not noisy. My only complains are that I'd rather the bigger-squarish Enter key (it is exactly as the one on this video) and there isn't any indicator for the Caps Lock key
I really love it.
Same here, 4+ years, my second sculpt keyboard now. The mouse was fine but not the greatest microsoft mouse by any means. I switched to Logitech Ergonomic trackball and it is much better for the wrist.
Do they plan making it 10keyless? I hate stretching my right arm to reach for the mouse (the Logitech ergonomic trackball in my case). I am currently using Microsoft Sculpt and I love it. But it has started having some connection issues and the palm rest is destroyed
Logitech trackball REPRESENT
I'm a touch typist, and I generally have little trouble adapting to different keyboards, even the particularly unusual ones like the Microsoft Mobile keyboard. I've extensive typing experience on a Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. They are very nice, but I still prefer my mechanical keyboards.
FUCK YES I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR AN ERGONOMIC KEYBOARD LIKE THE SCULPT FOR YEARS! The palm rest lift is something i can't live without.
The ergonomics and quality of this keyboard are tough to beat.
You should be aware, however, that they put the 6 key on the left side of the split. I believe that Microsoft made the same mistake with their ergo keyboard.
@@surferdude4487 That is sooo fricking annoying.
@@beanut.putter Since the time I posted that reply, I've done plenty of research on the topic. Some European nations actually teach touch typing to strike the 6 key with the left hand. Some keyboard designers put the 6 on the left because they think it looks better. But I can't see because I'm blind, so I don't really care what the keyboard looks like. And I learned to touch-type in Canada so I want to hit that 6 key with my right hand. Besides, it's a long reach to get there with my left. So, yes, I would be a lot happier if they would put the 6 on the right side of the split or put one on both sides of the split. Of course, I could use the number pad, but since I use that for navigating with my screen reader, I would have to switch it back and forth and keep track of which mode it is in because I can't see the indicator LED.
I am using MS Sculpt. Such shape really saved my hands from pain. I hate only a couple of things in my kb - awful Fn keys (they are not scissor-switch) and bad location of Home/End/PgUp/PgDown. I would try K860 ergo, but the price...
Microsoft Sculpt user here, and it look better than this one from Logitech.
Logitech really needs to combine this keyboard with the MX Keys. So the layout, wrist rest and ergonomics of this keyboard but using the indented keys and backlighting from the MX Keys. They should lose the ambient sensor option as there have been many reported issues with it. Just allow people to set the level of lighting they prefer and the ability to choose a custom timeout for the lighting when the keyboard is not in use. With the added backlighting it would also preferrably be rechargeable via USB-C. If the Ergo K860 and MX Keys had a full size baby then I would pay the higher price. Until that happens I likely won't purchase either of them. C'mon Logitech ... this video is over 3 years old ... GET ON IT! 😜
This or the Microsoft should be standard for every keyboard
Absolutely, to use a straight keyboard for long periods of typing is like taking a knife to your wrist.
The modifier keys on that one are a deal breaker for macOS.
But in TKL versions!
I've been using Ergonomical keyboards since the 90's. I'm here since i just ordered the K860 (my previous ergonomical keyboard is giving issues with my left shift key). Still can't understand why you keep telling them that the price is so high.... Buying a desk what can go up and down is fine (what cost honderds if not thousand more) for a good posture. Or people pay extra so there keyboard gives light. To me comfort and making sure I can last decades behind my computer write code (already doing it for couple) but what is expensive is getting in serious discomfort and therefor injured (RSI). Some of my friends did learn how to type DVORAK instead of QWERTY still a skill I want to master one of these days.
For the rest I do understand the fact they didn't go for the light features... they want to attract this keyboard to offices (where people type for hours in a day). How cool some people think RGB looks it's not seen in many offices. In that setting people will not take you that serious and think you took a toy to work.
I totally agree that if you don't know how to type blind this might be a hard one. I would advice everybody who didn't learn how to type blind (or keyboarding) should take some courses... it's totally worth and pays itself back faster then you might think.
My desk is covered in all sorts of gaming gizmo's and wahoos, EXCEPT for the keyboard which is the MS Ergo Sculpt... I've tried standard/ mechanical keybds and I can't go back. I will forever be using an ergonomic keyboard until someone invents a working neural interface.
Kinesisgaming. They have a mechanical ergo keyboard.
because i game after I work, I use an ergo split keyboard + a trackball mouse for work while a regular keyboard + mouse for gaming. I think it helps a lot as it mixes things up. No longer am I doing the exact same motions all day, every day.
The only trouble I'm having is the "6" key being on the left side. I learned to type "6" with my right index finger. Other than that, this is potentially replacing my MX Keys (which I actually just got, lol). The ERGO K860 is a really nice keyboard!
As for lacking backlighting, it's disappointing, but I really don't need it. I always have a desk lamp and I'm a touch typist.
Been using an ergonomics keyboard for years, with the latest being the K860 the past few months. And I love this keyboard. Being able to connect to a pc and a Mac and my iPad, has been awesome. the feel is great and very comfortable. Funny how you mentioned its a large keyboard, look at the ms 4000. I found this KB has a great design and use of space. Best KB I’ve used in long while.
Enjoy the channel, great reviews.
I use a microsoft sculpt. and I'm pretty temped to get this keyboard. already have the logi mx vertical.
Same here I loved my microsoft sculpt keyboard but I noticed that when I'm gaming there is like some kind of delay? of some sort that I could feel... so I went back to mechanical keyboard. This K860 being released in 2020 gives me hope that I won't experience the same lagging feel when I'm gaming. I'm going to get this keyboard and try it out
I swear by ergo keyboards. I've used a Microsoft Natural (the old white one), a Natural 4000 (the black and silver one, still just $40-50 online), and now an Ergodox-EZ Glow. RGB, mechanical, 76-key, with socketed switches so you can replace them with whatever Kailh BOX you prefer. I've got Thick Golds (clicky, almost "poppy") but I'm debating BOX Navy since I keep hitting keys by accident.
Getting used to an Ergo of any form definitely makes switching back to a traditional layout less than ideal, though.
Chris Frizzell I have the non Glow with Kailh Gold, blank PBT keycaps and type on the Colemak ModDH layout and it’s a dream. I can switch keyboards fine but I always find myself disappointed when not on my ergodox. I HATE staggered rows now.
there are many options for ergo mech keyboards in the custom keyboard community it's just incredibly expensive
a number of my colleagues use a split keyboard from kinesis. its a bit different, but you can configure it similarly with risers in the middle. i think its a few hundred usd
@@insertnamehere6559 name? and I meant the one that you build yourself and simmer switch by switch
@@insertnamehere6559 I've only seen rly expensive options and didn't know this was a thing cus I don't rly like ergo keyboards but this is rly nice for the price