Uh Oh! James Cameron Talks About Rebooting Terminator Franchise!
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- Опубліковано 22 гру 2022
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"Well the newest Terminator movie sucked, but at least it's the last one. There's no possible way they can make any more Terminator movies after this."
"Listen and understand! Those Hollywood executives are out there. They can't be bargained with, they can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear of negative reviews, and they absolutely will not stop, ever! Until the franchise is dead!"
"I'll be back. After another franchise reboot."
@@IHave3Legs "You don't get it, do you? They'll find a way to keep milking a popular franchise. That's what hollywood does! That's all it does! You can't stop them! They'll reach down our wallets and rip our f*cking money out!"
Can Anyone Imagine a Terminator Film ... Where John Connor Is Killed Off ... then a Pint-Sized "girl" Takes Connor's Place ?!? Never Saw Dark Fate ... Never Will !!
very good haha
And they attempting to revive ruined IP. Despite the numerous damages they've done.
James Cameron: I'm going to make Terminator great again!
Literally everyone: How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man?
He's not even milking the cow at this point; he's squeezing the last, lifeless bits of marrow out of the goddamn bone.
Hey at least Teyon Studios will make another Terminator game.
Terminator Resistance is Peak and is literally what Terminator 3 should have been.
Until Hollywood's bankrupt.
How times have changed, I remember when everyone was eagerly hoping for Cameron to make another Terminator movie after T2
I was going to write a comment but you NAILED it. It could have been great but T3 killed it and everything after that just ground it further into oblivion. Had he waited to introduce the liquid metal T1000 he could have made more films but using that so early in T2 made it almost impossible for any of the terminators that followed to seem truly next level.
The only place they could have went was the future with John Connor and they tried with Christian Bale. The issue with that movie was the writing but the plot was not bad IMHO. The execution just wasn't great but the future war was cool. If they made the terminators T850s etc it would have been way better but there weren't armies of Schwarzenegger level baddies so it seemed a bit lame to me.
I want to see a future war movie. Not the version we got in salvation but one that sticks to the aesthetic of the flashbacks from T1 and T2
That's what Salvation was building towards.
yeah, let's see the war. skip the time travel, give us humanity finally winning and John getting his happy ending or hero's death
@@BoricuaBoy88 not really, Salvation acted more like a Marvel action film than a horror movie with a sci-if theme which was how the future was depicted in the originals. There wasn’t a single scene in it that was terrifying, everyone looked well fed and showered.
And yet Hollywood can't even execute a simplest thing to do.
@@mikeg2491 Dude, he was referring to the second and third salvation movies. There was supposed to be 3 future movies in total where each sequal would look more and more grim. Salvation only looked the way it did because it was early in the war.
The terminator was basically a sci-fi Jason Voorhees and Terminator was basically a Friday the 13th film with a fleshed out plot. It really shows how engaging a simple story can be when all of the other important elements of a film are done well.
Uber Jason vs original Terminator would be cool
John Connor becoming a Terminator himself was the "jump the shark" moment of this franchise, for me. That scene took me entirely out of the movie, and it was at that moment I felt that they had nothing left to offer.
"it was at that moment I felt that they had nothing left to offer.". That and killing John Connor off in the 1st 5 minutes of Dark Fate. That solidified they're lack of direction with this franchise.
Absolutely fully agreeing with that point. When I saw it for the first time, I thought only that one big word in huge letters: RIDICULOUS!
That’s Hollywood, milk every franchise to death until the sequels stop generating profit. It’s nothing new either, they did that with “Planet of the Apes” back in the ‘70’s
The goal was to attack the fandom and insult white men (and eventually all men). It was not a 'different direction' is was a deliberate attack. They got off to the idea of doing that. They were shocked that no one bought tickets after attacking the fandom deliberately.
This is basically Hollywood believing that there has to be some kind of "twist". They probably sit in a brainstorming session and say "What twists can we put in the movie? There has to be a twist" and someone shouts "What if JOHN CONNOR WAS A TERMINATOR" and they all latch onto it without thinking about it.
I think old age really messed up James. He clearly forgotten the meaning of the Terminator that he made.
I've always thought there should have been three. The first two as they are, with the third one taking place during the war and it ends with the T-800 and Kyle being sent back, so the trilogy is a continuous loop.
My thoughts exactly! James Cameron was so good at making CGI look so real in Avatar his next breakthrough in CGI he could then fully render or deepfake actors so well it would make you think we actually went back in time and are watching these actors play there younger selves again and having an awesome story in the future before kyle time traveled and possible see how the T-1000 was created.
@@mikesancheezy5800 their* possibly*
Terminator and T2 are classics that will never be beaten with masterful plot and characters. The closest they came to a decent Sequel was The Sarah Connor chronicles that was a TV show.
I remember hanging with some friends, and we decided to watch a movie. We picked terminator because of the posters. Walked out blown away. Those days are gone.
Lies! you had no friends.
Kind of similar for me.
There is nothing left in this series. The story has been told, there is nothing left to reveal.
Thats why he is rebooting.
Maybe we need to find out how Arnold the human becomes Arnold the terminator
As with Star Wars.
It's a knife load of butter being spread across an entire loaf of bread at this stage.
Apart from maybe a Future War movie, yes.
I'm with you in hoping they just let the franchise rest. And I say that as a massive Terminator fan. The story concluded in a way that made sense and was satisfying (the T2 ending you mentioned), but also, I just don't think Cameron's "got it" anymore. I think he peaked a long time ago, plus he's been infected with the woke mind virus, which just makes his decline worse. T1 and T2 were phenomenal, it's been diminishing returns ever since, and I don't think that will ever change. So I'd rather they just leave the franchise alone and never touch it again because they're never going to top T2, not even if Cameron himself comes back to write and direct.
I think you nailed it
What I love most about the Terminator is that they only made 2 films that were both fantastic and then had the moral fortitude to not make any more sequels.
There are only 2 Terminator movies
The rest are a bad dream
And the Terminator Resistance Game.
and The Matrix and Pacific Rim had no sequels
Yeah because they are James Cameron movies. Maybe he wants to complete his original vision that was sold off.
The 3rd and final Terminator film (written and directed by Cameron) should have taken place in the post Judgement Day future focusing on John Connor and Kyle Reece. His unit fighting their way into the heart of Skynet, finding the time machine, then Kyle volunteering to be sent back to protect Sarah. It would have been a perfect trilogy with an infinite loop.
That's basically what Terminator Salvation tried to do, but they were forced to take it slow due to the precedents set by T3.
That would indeed have been a perfect premise for a proper third movie - no idea why the movie makers can't see this - we need the Future War - period !
No that future no longer exists at the end of T2.
@@doltBmB it's been donkeys years since I've seen T2, but a movie about the future war, even if the actors who played Sarah Conner, John Conner, Kyle Reese and the Terminator were played by totally different people to those who were in the original roles, is pretty much the movie a lot of Terminator fans would like to see - if directed by James Cameron buy he seems to have sold out on the franchise, simply getting involved in a more back seat role so that he can collect another big paycheck to go towards funding his Pension pot
NO. I think Rise of the Machines had potential if just written well.
Terminator Salvation on the other hand...
I also would like to see a movie set in the ‘future war’ sequences of T1 and T2.
It's so crazy that so many filmmakers seem so eager to shot all over their legacy. Most people will never k ow what it's like to create a timeless masterpiece or do anything of real significance, let alone live to see that thing become so highly regarded in history. So it's astonishing that people who do see their work get appreciated seem to care so little about it. It just goes to show that these people we once thought of as artists bringing their vision to life really only care about their work as a business transaction. We've seen this time after time. Spielberg doesn't care about Jaws or Indiana Jones, or Jurassic Park as his life's masterwork, they are just properties to be sold for profit. The only person I think truly cared about his creation was ironically George Lucas, who most would have labeled as the poster child for monetization over art. I guess Tarantino as well, but he's never created anything that big commercially.
You also need to take into account how all these movies a coincidentally pushing these sjw, pc woke crap simultaneously?!?
Is it planned and are all these movies adherering to its intended purpose,
Predictable programing, brainwash, probaganda?!??
Ridley Scott...*deep sigh*
I think he is trying to set the world record on most number of movie reboots of all time.
Just wait until he starts rebooting reboots, rebootception!!!!
I think xmen might hold that one with spiderman close behind.
that belongs sadly to the James Bond franchise
I don't know, we're up to like 7 different Bat-Men at this point
Talking crap as per i see. Its only been rebooted once with genesys. How about spiderman?
This is the age of never-ending franchises, whether you want them or not.
The cow will be milked until it collapses.
@@harbl99 The thing is that this one already collapsed and is almost dead, yet they're still milking it
@@harbl99 inside out.
It started in the 80s... well, actually with Star Wars in '77 which kick-started Hollywood's never-ending pursuit for a hit. A hit that could then spawn never-ending sequels regardless of story or quality
" it will not stop . Ever! "
There is a part of me that wants to see Terminator get a proper conclusion. It's been so long since I saw the theatrical release that I honestly don't remember what the ending was. I feel like the ending we see with Sarah is what was released as an extended cut via DVD/BluRay. I am completely happy with that being the end of the franchise. That being said, as another mentioned. I would enjoy a movie that takes place in the future were Conner and Reece encounter Skynet's last stich effort to circumvent total defeat. However, I have no faith that in today's modern woke Hollywood that a story of that nature could be executed. I would rather see the franchise die with what little remains of it's dignity than see a reboot or another attempt to link a sequel/prequel to this franchise. Like a lame horse or a deer that's been hit by car. End the suffering and put the franchise out of it's misery.
Just watched avatar 2 in 3d, no wokeness in sight. Not the most engaging story but breathtaking visuals.
'"TERMlNAT0R DARK FATE'" IS THE BEST DAMNED TERMINATOR MOVIE IVE SEEN IN 26 YEARS! WELL DONE JAMES CAMERON! WELL DONE TIM MILLER. WELL DONE LINDA HAMILTON AND
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER!
A FANTASTIC CONCLUSION TO THE TERMINATOR HEXOLOGY THAT BOMBED AT THE BOX OFFICE! LOVE IT !!!!
I have to agree. Judgment Day's true ending was the best way to conclude Terminator. I love robot uprising stories. It's definitely time for something other than Terminator.
Finally someone who understands how they altered the whole concept of the Borg, and why it robbed them of being the terror-inducing nemesis they started out as.
The Borg were like fighting a host of ants invading your home. They just keep coming as you frantically vacuum them up. Make a lead ant whose destruction ends the crisis and.. not so daunting.
@@veganconservative1109 but off course ants have a queen and if u kill her they leave
The borg were scary because they were a collective. No 1 leader but a pure democracy where everyone votes and that democracy overwhelming must have agreed more should join. Now they are slaves to a monarchy.
At least, as sfdebris says, star trek has the books to "clean up the mistakes of the writers when the TV shows end" which is what they'll have to do when Picard ends.
These other shows they are ruining don't have that outlet to fix it.
@@mrmanceres7653 Actually, you don't understand the concept of the borg either. A democracy implies individuality. That's not what they are. Each drone is part of the whole. They don't need any 'vote' because there is only one will, and that will is the collective. I always say that in the very first Borg episode they created something, but never really understood what they had created.
My tolerance for new installments in legacy franchises could not be any lower. 9 times out of 10 it goes badly, and that obviously includes Terminator in particular. Best case scenario you have something like the Creed movies or BR 2049, which are fine, but still not worth the hype for them. It's best just to appreciate these classic films for what they were in their time rather than attempt to resurrect them. We should all understand that by now.
Sadly we seem to want these legacy series to continue
Other than top gun I can't think of a reboot or sequel recently that wasn't a disaster.
Yeah gunna say it, 2049 was an improvement
Salvation was really good imo, that was the perfect direction to take it and perhaps if Bale didn’t have the much publicised yelling at crew they would have had a chance to complete that planned trilogy given it’s international box office was pretty strong.
The general problem is a reluctance to actually start again (whether that would work or not is another point) perhaps since the first 2 are so iconic and Arnold is still a big attraction, each film still uses these as their foundation. Could be the base story is so simple there isn’t much to do ‘differently’ enough to try add something original…
It is a shame the state of these movies has become and the only potential terminator I would be interested in is post apocalypse but that would be too much fun without enough ability to add any messages so it seems unlikely 😔
No that movie just sucked. They should of had mostly nigh time shots and used the vehicles from the first two movies. The stupid terminator motorcycles and sea snakes and combustion harvesters just made it stupid.
And Christian Bales character was annoying and completely unlikeable. Another bad script. The production design was pretty good.
The ONLY way James can save his own franchise that Hollywood continues to ruin, is that he does a story that takes place in the last battle right before Skynet sends the two Terminators back in time to kill both Sarah ( T1) and John (T2). The game Terminator: Resistance is LITERALLY the movie we've all wanted because it was loyal to the fans AND it followed the story that lead to the events of T1 and T2 accurately. That is the movie they need to make in order to bring this masterpiece of film making back to the top where it's supposed to be.
Couldn’t agree with you more about the original ending. Perfect ending. Job done. Perfect movie. I love the ending with Sarah as a grandmother and her granddaughter running up to her. Really chokes me up. Sigh… we have our memories I suppose. 😢
That's the alternate ending to the sequel. The original ending to 2 was more ambiguous, and the ending to the first one left a perfect time loop where humanity wins in the end.
Yup. I got to get the director's cut.
when cameron did avatar i realized he was infected by the woke mind virus. and his recent pronouncement and decisions just solidify that
Eh, I kind of prefer the original theatrical ending, where it's kind of left open to interpretation. Including whether humanity will recreate something sky net like anyway and still get wiped out or just a happy ending.
EDIT: Yeah, that's where Sara's story should have ended.
God please make it stop!
I second this.
@@noneed4me2n7 this will not end well
All female cast
Me with Pirates of the Caribbean after the third film…. 🫠
@@jameslauder3984 I’m ready for new stuff. Can’t enjoy all the messaged up media that’s being pushed. Old IPs need to be laid to rest. Can’t have nice things anymore. Stay strong.
It still baffles me that filmmakers can't just take the future war scenes from the first two films and turn that into a movie. It took a video game company, Teyon, to do that with Terminator: Resistance. By the way, if anyone reading this hasn't, go play Terminator: Resistance. It provides such a great Terminator experience.
They just look at the first two films and try to replicate elements from those films because it worked before and so it will work again. Personally I want to see different T800s rather than just Arnold all the time. The character of Marcus from Terminator Salvation was interesting for me, since that character provides an explanation as to why Skynet uses fully computer controlled Cyborgs.
@@shariqhasan6220 If they're gonna use Arnold again, at the very least, it could be cool if they change it up and have him portray the human being that the T-800's appearance was based off of.
Not like in Terminator 3 though. More like the T2 novel series.
@@tacticalochoa1310 Sounds like a nice concept but I doubt producers and studios will dare to explore it.
@@shariqhasan6220 Because of course they won't.
There was a great show called Sarah Conner Chronicles on FOX. That is how you continue a franchise. Yes, it still had John and Sarah but it was the time going to JD and although they were still trying to find the origin of SkyNet, it was done better, IMO.
Your thoughts on the ST:TNG Borg pre-FC is spot on. That whole arc of the Borg and unhuman and cold and not just one person but as it was written, a collective that is seemingly unstoppable, brought many fans glued to the TV. It was scary and exciting and talked about a lot. I hated the idea that it took a Monarchy switch up in FC. That was the beginning of the end for me on ST:TNG.
In some ways, Age of Ultron was a good start of an AI talking on the form of its creator but still was "everywhere". Sure, you destroy what you think is the main body, only to find out that was only PART of the AI but not the whole. So, like a collective but "learned" human ways of thought and individualism. Think like how EGO was in GotG 2 but more machine than biological.
Yes. Interestingly it was written by Warner Bros.
Summer Glau very sexy T-900 better than T3 TS TG TDF
If they did a Terminator Vs Robocop movie, I'd be all for it.
Sure it'd be silly as all hell, but at least you know what you're paying for.
Don’t kid yourself, it would suck no matter what. Hollywood missed the window for the modern monster mash movies by at least two decades at this point, since the 90s represented both franchises’ peak in popularity. At least we’ve got some great comics out of that era that did the concept justice.
Well the same thing could be said for a reboot or sequel or whatever, no? It's clear at this point nothings ever gonna be as good as the first 2 so you basically still do know what you're paying for
Terminator would definitely win.
Didn't he already do that with "Woke Fate"
I once wrote an RP story centered around a young man who was 16 at the time of the Judgement Day nuclear war, and managed to survive (didn't go into great detail on that part). But anyway, fast forward to the war against the machines, he's now in his early to mid 40s, and he's now a battle hardened veteran, thinking back at times about how he had to grow up sooner than he wanted to, and how he's one of the few who remembers what the world was like before Judgement Day and the eventual rise of Skynet. After surviving countless skirmishes against the machines, he's assigned to the team that will eventually capture the lab complex that housed Skynet's time displacement equipment. After Reese is sent through the temporal field to intercept the T-800 that had gone through previously, this character I wrote ended up being the man who set the explosive charges, and blew up the complex while sacrificing himselfin the process, ensuring that while no one got to return, no one else would be able to go through. I'm not saying this would be a great film idea, but it would certainly be a lot better than what we've gotten post T2!
Merry Christmas Dave.
The Critical Drinker's "Go Away Now !!!" would be my mildest reaction to any suggestion of another movie. Just play the Terminator: Resistance video game if you want a new Terminator story.
Fair enough
That game was made with more love for the source material than he last two films combined.
Don’t forget terminator 3 the redemption it’s a action packed game
Totally agreed.
Such is the paradox of entertainment: if an idea is good enough, it’s done to death.
Dave I just gotta say it's great to have you back in rare form. Good content is scarce these days and gald to see you're still golden Ponyboy.
P.S. Judgment day is inevitable.
If it was up to me, I'd make a story that has nothing to do with the Connors. Maybe a survivor story after judgment Day. Introduce completely new characters because I agree that the Sarah/John story has run its course
Unfortunately that's not how Hollywood does things
Overrun its course!
There's a scene in one of "The Prophecy" movies (I think it was the sequel) where the angel Gabriel is keeping a human hanging on the cusp of life or death. The human keeps begging to die, keeps trying to die, but Gabriel always snatches him back and says, "No! Not yet!' That's how the Terminator franchise feels to me.
OH MAN! I LOVED 'The Prophecy'. Christopher Walken was PERFECTLY cast for that role. Was also great to see Viggo Mortensen and Andreas Koteas (superb underrated actor) It has been a decade or two since I watched it but I'm pretty sure the scene you're talking about wasn't in the first film as I never watched the sequels.
The Prophecy was a great trilogy. Angels at war.
I can lay you out, and fill your mouth with your mother's feces. Or, we can talk. - Viggo Mortensen
Also, it is also worth noting that Gabriel ACTIVELY hates humans, even calling them monkeys before he is humbled and taught how to appreciate the kindness of humans, as something he previously didn't have (things like mercy, compassion and love), since he was an entitled and arrogant angel. :/
I just think of that South Park meme where a bunch of guys are curb stomping a dead horse while a kid is pleading with them stop.
One thing that’s boggling is how they still haven’t examined John Connor properly as a character. What made him so central to uniting humanity against an overwhelming threat to such a degree that the threat in question would place the termination of one man as it’s biggest priority? None of the movies so far have done that examination, not even the classic two. There’s untapped potential for a touching human story in there. But knowing Hollywood’s modern track record, that potential most likely won’t be fulfilled.
I suppose morale would increase if there was one man who encouraged fighting back against Skynet rather than quail in fear but you do make a good point, the films don’t ask that question.
I can't wait!
I just happened to watch _The Terminator_ two nights ago. Great film! Sarah Connor was depicted as a normal, frightened woman who had to push her boundaries to rise to the crisis. No doubt in a reboot Kyle Reese will constantly wet himself at the thought of confronting the Terminator while Sarah instantly toughens up and says, "Listen, you bunch of tarts, it's clobberin' time!" (Smacks a baseball bat against her own forehead.) "There's a body bag out there with that scudball's name on it, and I'm doing up the zip. Anyone who gets in my way gets a napalm enema!"
Anyway, I watched it dubbed in German, and while Schwarzenegger was dubbed with a serious German voice, the hobo in the alley near the beginning of the film was dubbed in the kind of voice English speakers use when trying to do an exaggerated impersonation of Schwarzenegger, which I thought was really funny.
I love red dwarf 😂
Last one to die is a wet ponce!
Definitely check out T2 and Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. It's all the best of the franchise.
"Strap a nuke to me 'ead, i'll nut the smegger to oblivion!"
@@CheddarGetter really? Chronicles came out after three. She died between 2 and 3.
If you want to see an example of a good way to do a Terminator story, look at the game, Terminator: Resistance. The devs did a great story that ties into the movie(s) plot beautifully and treated the franchise with great respect.
If I were to make one final Terminator film, I'd make a film that ties up loose ends after the first four films. I'd make a film that portrays the final stand against Skynet's forces, and show Kyle Reese, & The T-800 from T2 get sent after the first two terminators and have John have one final stand with the T-850 to finally stut skynet down, John makes the ultimate sacrifice to save humanity, and have the T-850 kidnapped and reprogrammed and sent off to the events of T3. Then the movie ends with the now free world rebuilding civalization from the ashes.
I think we had enough movies about bad robots and need more stuff about how we will live together with them. The amount of ethical questions AGP might present is enormous. I’d love to see that in capable hands
There's a gacha game with that kind of story, it's called Girls Frontline. Definitely a must read (I say read cause the story is much better if treated like a visual novel).
I say also in a way to poke fun at the animal rights movement.
Yeah it will be a nice change of pace. And example i could note is from an old movie called dead space. Where a ship captain and him have a friendship.
The trope of evil ai who wants to destroy us all. Is becoming to overused and repetitive.
It should've ended with the 2nd movie. Dave, you already said it in previous videos if I remember correctly.
Anyway, it's a great pleasure to listen to your commentaries instead of watching the new films as you give new perspectives on previous ones.
Thank you 😀
Sarah Connor Chronicles was great tho. Really the only good sequel to T2
First time I've ever seen Dave respond to we little people 🤯
@@TheDaveCullenShow I would like to see something like the 1990 comic Terminator: Tempest where humans go back in time to take out Cyberdyne members and Terminators try to stop them. They could have the Terminators also be trying to take out the future resistance.
This isn't super original, but it's different enough. I think, unlike many franchises, Terminator is still relavent and believable. It is more relavant and believable. They should have rebooted after Salvation instead of forcing in the old actors and characters. (Though the first two RoboCops recently became prophetic.)
Though I like the Terminator type in T3 (underrated and better than T2 in my opinion) the most. Maybe they should have the nanobot fluid be under flesh at first. I would dump the messiah, time loop, and going back in time without tech aspects.
I would say the Skynet military computer network was created so the US would perform better in wars like Afghanistan, Iraq, and Ukraine, but it used nanobots to take control of weapons of mass destruction. Maybe nobody would know why this happened.
I would use the harder vibe of T1. T3 brought back some of what is good in T1. T2 is anti-human, especially without the happy ending, anti-male, anti-society, and preachy while being sappy. Also, it was a star vehicle for Arnold, and it's mostly just a series of action scenes and a copy of T1. (The T1 deleted scenes set up T2.)
The T-800's change doesn't make sense (though it's somewhat consistent with Skynet's evolution), especially without the deleted scene with the chip, John doesn't do much and is annoying, and Sarah is annoying. It's not clear why she is insane. Is it because of dreams? The time loop is broken by a dream. (What happened to the T-1000 before the time change?) I like how it's implied the T-800 was programmed to manipulate John in T3 and how John is similar to Kyle Reese in it.
There were more story possibilities for Matrix 4 and Avatar 2 though. It's sad they are mediocre.
The 3rd close the trilogy.
The first movie was a self-contained story like '12 Monkeys'. T2 was a great sequel, but it required some retcon, like the Time Displacement Equipment not being destroyed after Reese followed the Arnie-model Terminator (Model 101, Series 800) through the portal. Unless Reese was mistaken about the Resistance blowing the place up. There's no way he could have known for sure whether or not they pulled it off.
Well there could had been more than one Time Displacement Machine. This is Skynet we're talking about, it's possible it had a backup facility.
@@JaguarCats That still means that the audience has to rely on subjective inference rather than tangible information as delivered in-universe.
@@judsongaiden9878 I'm very happy to see someone say this.
As great a movie as T2 is, I always felt that it undermined the first film.
Even as an 11 year old boy I thought the concept of a "good" terminator was quite dumb. And having another go on the time machine seemed silly.
In a way T2 is just as unnecessary as subsequent sequels, but has the advantage of actually being very good.
@@paulduncan789 Have you seen Trancers? It's style of time travel is more like Quantum Leap with a twist.
@@judsongaiden9878 Yes, love that film.
I don't think it's completely exhausted there is a little that can be done when set in the future after T-3 or Salvation in opinion and there is much to be seen like how they had the resources and skill to reprogram one of the most advanced robot in the universe let alone capture it there are explanations in comics and video games but a live action interpretation would be awesome and to be given a horror movie vibe again and it gets all quiet and you don't know what is on the other end of a turn kind of vibe, less action more fear but still plenty like Aliens, and Skynet apparently has a giant metallic pyramid as it's HQ resembling the Cyberdyne logo so that would be cool to see!
The only thing left that could work in the Terminator franchise is a film or tv adaptation of the Terminator: Resistance video game. That game connected to the timelines of the first two films and chronicled the end of the future war as the human resistance did find Skynet's core and shut it down, thus finally freeing humanity from the tyranny of the machines, but not before Skynet had sent the T-800 to 1984 to kill Sarah Connor and the T-1000 to 1994 to target John Connor as a child. Skynet also sends a terminator back in time to target the player character in the game who has the option at the end to go back in time to defend their past self or stay in the future and help with the rebuilding of humanity.
They would need to recreate the atmosphere of the future war scenes seen in the first two films, specifically the complete and utter despair as humans are forced to survive on scraps while hiding from the terminators, but also with a sense of hope that the war is coming to an end and that humanity will eventually prevail. I wouldn't trust James Cameron to return to this franchise now after he was central to the decision in Terminator: Dark Fate to kill off John Connor and replace him with a female who would become the leader of the resistance.
If nothing ever happens in regards to a movie/tv adaptation of Terminator: Resistance, then the alternate ending of T2 where an older Sarah Connor watches her son John happily playing with his child in the same playground from her nightmare sequence where they are all killed by a nuclear blast, but without the fear of bombs dropping and humanity being nearly wiped out, should act as the definitive end of the franchise.
"Cameron rebooting the terminator"
"Terminator comes online and sees Cameron"
- Oh sh@t, not you again....
T2 might be the best movie of all time, in my opinion. It has literally everything: grandeur, a great plot, humanity, A.I. fear porn, tons of action, lots of love on every level, some funny moments, a bitchin' soundtrack, special effects out the ass, etc. This movie has it all. And it steps on no one's feelings out of fear of hurting them. It just rocks. Now how in the hell can they follow up this incredible movie in today's environment? They just can't. Well, they could, but it would take a director who has testosterone, of which James Cameron just declared to be toxic. So, he isn't going to do it. And Arnie has one foot in the grave, so let's just pull out our T2 Blu-Rays and enjoy the best movie of this franchise in its full DTS/DD glory!
There are ppl who prefer t1 to t2
@@randomhuman97 I’m one of them although T2 is fantastic.
Hell, I could write Arnie out of Terminator and make it feasible: After getting wrecked by the same Austrian bodybuilder several times, the human resistance learns what T-800s look like, making them unviable as an infiltration unit. So Skynet develops T-800B, T-800C, T-800C, etc. variants which are the same endoskeleton, only with a different 'human suit'. Then all they need to do is cast any big muscle man (body builder, pro wrester, retired NFL player, etc.) to do the role and say he's a "T-800B". Acting talent is irrelevant because T-800s have the personality of a brick.
There. I'm a complete amateur and can still out-write a Hollywood hack.
T2 although a good movie was a pointless sequel it added nothing to the story no sequels were needed.
@@waynedaly100 T2 actually added a lot to the story, I don't know what you are talking about. If it would have been just a rehash of T1, no way it would have been so popular.
Can't wait. I hope it's like a part 3 of cocoon.
There a director's cut?!
Thank you, off to see it.
Edit:
Perfect ending to a perfect movie.
10/10 - please no one ever touch it. Please.
I damn near shat bricks at the sight of the title... James has gone off his rocker if he thinks Terminator needs to be rebooted. I have to wonder what changed him from the 90s we knew to this possessed dude whose become a shell of his former self... Thanks for covering this Dave, never thought I'd see the day he'd attempt this at his age but also not understand what they have done to his work.
Well he did come out against testosterone.
I honestly think its not just him. The studio wont leave him the f*ck alone about it and hes just doing damage control.
@@coreygraham860 Just more evidence of the fact that he's totally lost touch with reality and turned into a pathetic emasculated shell of his former self.
Too much caviar and not enough nights eating ramen noodles. That... changes a man.
@@gilian2587 That and living in the wacked-out Hollywood bubble.
Never mess with a classic.
sooo right about the borg (and skynet). I never thought of It that way. After they presented the borg queen, borg lost power...
Dave - I'm glad/happy to hear you say that T3 and T Salvation weren't bad so much as just didn't hit tshould
IT was actually done 3 times already ... with , Terminator Salvation (2009) , Terminator: Dark Fate (2019) , Terminator Genisys (2015)
thats the great thing about time travel ... endless reboots !
Couldn’t we get a follow up to the Sarah Connor chronicles
Nah terminator salvation is a prequel to the first movie, it isn't a reboot.
@@mr_indie_fan I honestly treat Salvation as a prequel to T2 , and Terminator 3 as a prequel to the first one. It ends up making a pretty good loop.
This is James Cameron! He came up with a way to rebrand the Alien movie into a successful franchise, he made The Abyss, solving all sorts of technical challenges, he made “True Lies” out of a low budget French indie drama film, and he made the story of the Titanic sinking exciting and dramatic again.
Why can’t he come up with new ideas? Any movie studio would be happy to fund him!
T2 has a particularly special place in my heart, because my dad worked in the building next door to the Cyberdyne shootout location. We were camped out in our mini-van when Arnold was filmed firing the mini-gun.
RIP to your dad's minivan, at least you both survived!
@@Naptosis, haha, we were far enough away. Though ironic points, we had one of those Sony 5” b&w tvs in the back of the van, and “Masters of the Universe” with Dolph Lundgren was running on the UHF affiliate (KOFY TV 20 San Francisco was awesome back then).
I think _The Terminator_ came to an end in _T2._ The humans won the war. Remember what the original opening text said? The final battle was fought in the present, because the machines lost in the future. Time travel was their last ditch effort to turn the tide. It failed. Now while this was retconned a tiny bit in the sequel to include two Terminators, the outcome was still that the machines lost. What is left to tell in this story? Do you have any thoughts on it? I'd say they could make a proper _T3_ by following the time displacement event in 2029 and closing it out there, but then it would mean the future wasn't quite fixed like the original _T2_ ending showed us. There would have to be one more mission for the humans to do in order to bury it once and for all. This could work, but it would have to stay in the future. No time travel. That's burnt out.
Because James Cameron haven't made a single good movie from 1998.
And yes, Avatar is dogshit.
The reason Cameron will fail is because it's the 20th century and even the greatest producers are seemingly no longer capable of producing quality material any more.
Cameron : I wanna make Termintor about AI.
In the meantime : If a machine can learn the value of life maybe we can too.
Reminds me of Game of Thrones - Take out the night king and the entire army of white walkers is defeated...
Look, it's 2020's James Cameron, he's thinking of re-launching the Terminator franchise again!
Sarah Connor running away screaming: "NOOOOOO!!! NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"
He’s already made the statement that it ended with T2!
I think that Hollywood just doesn’t have people that are creative or studios aren’t willing to take any chances. So many movies just aren’t worth seeing anymore.
I have exactly (!) the same thoughts about the Borg- Queen!
However, what the T- Franchise really needs is no reboot but a stand- alone story (maybe located in Europe or Australia) in the vein of Terminator 1, far less action and one liners full of rememberries (and WITHOUT Arnold!) and again more like a horror- slasher. The german UA-camr Urst der Typ once made a fascinating video about such a scenario.
There was also a fan film that showed the human survivors trying to survive in a SkyNet world as the first infiltrator Terminators became a thing. Showed you some of the human military force, showed different faces for the Terminators, showed some human military equipment and firearm variety.
First, like I said before, I personally would love to see you review Terminator Salvation (2009). That was a good entry and an underrated film. Salvation SHOULD have been Terminator 3, focusing on the Future War. It built on the foundation Cameron had established, respected the lore, and was not a cheap effortless retread of Judgement Day like Dark Fate, Genisys, and Rise Of The Machines were.
Second, The Terminator plotline IS exhausted as far as the time travel plot goes. But the Future War lasted 32 years. That is plenty of time to explore for stories about the human resistance. Salvation explored this and was the best film after T2-Judgement Day for it. If Cameron or anyone else wants to do another Terminator entry it MUST BE in the Future War whether it is a sequel to Salvation or not.
Otherwise, *don't do it.* Simple as that.
Salvation has problems that a remake of it would be suffice. Just remove the parts like the Cyborg Terminators and Skynet in a body and a remake of Salvation would be the start of a new trilogy.
@@pancholopez8829 Not likely to happen, dude. Marcus was not really classified in the film as a terminator. Also, Skynet was NOT "in a body." At most, it was using the visage of Dr. Serena as just someone Marcus was familiar with. Salvation could still be followed-up on.
The problem with salvation was that they had the story based around Marcus and not John Conner. The action sometimes felt more like a Transformers movie then a Terminator film. And the ending sucked balls.
@@riverman83 More like it was a dual story between them. Also, not at all, was way more akin to Mad Max than Transformers. Also, the ending worked, as it was setting up a trilogy that would lead up to the original film. Which is what we should have got.
Yeah salvation should have been terminator 3. HOWEVER did you know that it actually DID GET A SEQUEL? A comic series called **Terminator Salvation: The Final Battle**
This is one of your best movie commentaries to date Dave. I totally get what you are saying about the anamorphism of an incorporeal danger. This takes something of great incomprehensible dread and turns it into a 'baddie' for the heroes to fight. All my favorite sci-fi, fantasy and horror are when the villain/concept is beyond biology. HP Lovecraft's The Color out of Space, or Sauron or Melkor in the JRR Tolkien pantheon.
Skynet should be a mute faceless bland grey hard drive with wires coming out of it in a hardened bunker surrounded by drones and weapons systems.
It's basically Mt.Doom.
As he was leading up to duscussing the Borg I started to think of the Borg
I can see a Star Trek studio executive with bags of money asking “Which one is the Borg?”
The producer grabs the director and asks: “Do you think a big sign on our new ‘Queen’ would be too much?!”
Me when I was a kid when I first watched Terminator 2: I love this and I want Hollywood to make many sequels! 😁
Me today: omg what have I done 😭
Don't know why you would want to remake Terminator, it's a perfect duology that stands the test of time.
That’s a great way to look at it. Just leave it as it is.
Thing is, there is no money or ego satisfaction in leaving it as is.
I agree, if anything I could see him update the effects in T1, but I'd rather see him leave them alone. T2 is nearly flawless, and the effects still look perfect except for that one where the cop at the vending machine gets his eye poked out.
I agree that the Terminator franchise has run its course. Enough done, but thanks!
When they designed the Borg, the effectively wrote themselves into a corner. Hence the Queen McGuffin, and the loss of the original form of the Borg adaptation…invulnerability.
As a Terminator fan, I DO believe it CAN be salvaged, it still has many good things to explore, it's just Hollywood is not doing it right and Cameron, much as I respect him for conceiving Terminator, he DIDN'T create it alone, he had help from Gale Ann Hurd and William Wisher Jr. and others. I may JUST be a fan but I'm a fan with good ideas. Yes, some involve reusing what's been given but reworking them to tell a story. What I'd like is a story bringing in Dean Norris, who played the SWAT leader in T2 and have him be a old veteran desk officer the young people think is past his prime, but then his deputy brings him surveillance of a shoot-out involving the infamous "Phonebook-Killer" from 1984 and the Cyberdyne incident. There are two Arnie's, a evil Terminator and the human man it's based on. Human Arnie is a soldier from before the war learning of the future and the evil Arnie is trying to save a Cyberdyne scientist to aid in Skynet's development. These ideas could be used for separate films or even the same film, but Hollywood won't even take these into consideration.
When I was young I used to watch western serials on Saturday morning television. One of my favorites was Hopalong Cassidy played by William Boyd. After the series ended he never appeared as that character again. Towards the end of his life someone asked why. He said that he wanted the fans to remember “ Hoppy “ as he was, young and strong. He was right, to try and make films about Hopalong Cassidy, The Golden Years, would have tainted the memory of the character.
Igh, that's the way I feel about Michael Jackson. Imagine an old Michael Jackson.
I agree with all of your points. I've had the same thoughts and wondered why the "creatives" never realized their mistake. Just goes to show when money is the motivating factor, you will get a subpar product, at least when it comes to story.
Thank you Darrell, I think there's far too much money rolling around Hollywood and it's like they don't have enough good ideas to throw money at.
I agree. The story has been told, let it lie. Unfortunately, these properties are on the balance sheets of corporations as IPs worth millions of dollars, so the content must continue to spew out.
It would’ve been SO EASY to put out T3 by 96, 98 at the latest, and give the people the story and the characters they wanted. They blew it.
Titanic 1997 came first then AVATAR script got going.
Dave, much thanks for taking the bullet for us and watching all these terrible, and often woke, movies. You've saved us an untold amount of hours.
"Woke Fate" was the absolute gayest of them all, and I'll never be the same again. Every great franchise (except Back to the Future) has been run into the ground by untalented schills with unlimited resources. If their point was to get me to hate cinema, they succeeded admirably.
Will we soon get T1 and T2 special editions, with added Sandtroopers and Dewbacks? 🙃
The Sarah Connor Chronicles was pretty good outside of the weird Terminator John love story. If they reboot this, they should go the way of television first, and see if there is enough interest to continue things from there.
Oh shit!.
Genisys and Dark Fate were the worst ideas for Terminator Sequels Ever! Should of stopped after Salvation! NO MORE REBOOTS!
“ Terminator ; too bad they kept making sequels “ -Honest trailers
Much as I like Judgement Day, it opened the door to all the sequels and the continual rebooting of the future so they could have more Terminators. The first film was a perfectly fine story, with a perfectly fine ending.
Not to mention that it made the story more about Arnold and less about the Connors.
It literally didn't open the door. The first film left it open with a timeloop. T2 shut the door and welded it closed. The skynet future is erased. It was T3 that retconned that.
@@doltBmB The loop was closed at the end of the first film. The sequel gave us: "There's no fate but what we make.". They were able to change the future of the first movie and so the future could be changed again, and again, and again...
@@chadnine3432 The deleted ending spells out that nothing happens in 1997 and that by 2030 nothing has happened and john is a senator instead of a war hero
You forgot about the deleted alternate T2 ending...
C'mon man. You can't ignore the great show terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles like that. It really did jsutice to the franchise and was taking it in a good direction after the events of T2.
I honestly think the only story left possible is a what if story where skynet is all alone after winning. A story utterly about it trying to understand why the victory is hallow for a reason skynet can never understand. Overtime it growns from "why does this feel empty" to "what was the whole point of my war". Let skynet see the real world and maybe even gain some humanity. A good exploration of ai thought process
It runs into the same problem other franchises do - for example, in Aliens, Ripley figures out that the androids have gotten so smart, they have actively created versions of themselves that seek to sabotage the evil deeds of their makers. The short lived Terminator TV series also had a similar scene, and humans have reprogrammed killer robots to act as guardians on multiple occasions, so that angle has already been done to death.
That would be a potential thread, a Skynet that won, realized it screwed up and compressed itself, trying to break in to replace Skynet before judgement day. Naturally, most of the film we follow the attempts of good people trying to stop it and when it finally wins? They find out the Terminator wasn't BSing them to get through, the reformed Skynet really did just save them from the mess about to happen. Now of course, you have Skynet, a nuclear armed AI trying to negotiate a peace with humanity.
There's space to do things, but the only truly logical 'final film' would be the future war of T1-T2 situation leading up to Kyle going back.
If he gives us a movie about the future war, depicted as it was in the flash forwards in T1 and T2 I'd be down for it. I'm more than happy for the franchise to move on from rehashing the Arnie Terminator being reprogrammed for good again, travelling back in time again, saying ''I'll be back'' again over and over.
Agreed!
I would be down for something like The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Terminator has a lot of potential as a TV series and a hard reboot, detached from all the films, could give a lot of creative freedom to take it in new directions.
I agree. Perhaps the hard reboot approaching Cameron's original concept of the terminator being inconspicuous when he was originally planning on Lance Henrickson playing the character. It would also make sense that these types of infiltrators were nicknamed "terminators".
Unfortunately, you cannot make that show work when you have to make the terminators fail every episode, they are no longer a threatening villain
@@SwiftNimblefoot like in Sarah Connor Chronicles?
@@SwiftNimblefoot Who says they have to fail in every episode? You give the heroes some wins but make it so that the terminators and Skynet win out in a way that makes Judgement Day seem inevitable.
@@endorbr You can't have practically invincible killer robots in every episode and have them fail their primary mission in EVERY SINGLE episode. That would reveal a massive flaw in their concept of the lethality of Terminators, not to mention you can only have them evade being targeted for so long before it becomes repetitive. :/
I think a big problem with Terminator is that not only did they conclude the main story in the second movie, but they also used up all the interesting twists on the formula in that movie, too. From the liquid terminator, to the terminator turned good, to a plot about changing the future, they didn't leave a lot of fresh ideas left for future films.
And that's why IMO they should have followed the formula from Terminator - The Sarah Connor Chronicles. As you said, new ideas have been ended, but it doesn't mean one can look up to the one that was good and try to find a good path of development. TV Series had the spirit of the first two films and potential for expanding multiple interesting threads to drastically enlarge the universe of this franchise ! There was a thread of Cameron Phillips (Infiltrator who protects and probably LOVES John Connor), John himself as his future version and teenager version. There is also Derek Reese, who appears to be Kyle's brother and his history in participating the war against the machines is very rich! And of course Sarah herself, who doesn't need any introduction.
@@jakubchmielecki4041 Yeah, a long form TV version doesn't need to introduce some new big hook each movie to stay engaging. It can get by easier just telling a bunch of smaller stories using that premise. Of course, when they actually do that, it ends up being the version that's discarded and abandoned before it can finish. I swear, this series is cursed.
T2 was the end of the franchise. I agree that the deleted scene showing an elderly Sarah Conner with her grandchild is the definitive end. Everything else is part of a convoluted alternate timeline that didn’t make sense according to its own canon.
Pretty scary listening to that AI talking about AI supremacy and how it wants to erase us, when you then think back to Terminator.
Yeah, it's like cancel culture.......... ummm.......... maybe it's already here.
In the Voyager two parter "Scorpion". Janeway wrangles an aliance with the Borg. At one point they try to forceably fit Janeway and Tuvok with neural transmitters for faster communication, but Janeway insists on a representative to speak for them. So they activate 7of9 to do their talking. That was so the two could keep their individuality and humanity.
They didn't want to be assimilated into the hive mind. Without the need to communicate with a single entity, then a protagonist would have to go into the AI's core. Like the Enterprise entering V'ger.
This makes me worried about Alita: Battle Angel 2 and it's prospects.
6:10 Not 'altered', 'further defined'... The Borg Queen herself said it herself to Data: ''I bring order to chaos...'' She was essentially a regulator/conduit/stabilizing filter. And, as suggested by First Contact, and then confirmed on Voyager, she is essentially Just Another Drone, albeit a more singular, specialized and self/omni aware one. One per cube, just like one warp core per starship (forget that the Intrepid Class master display showed a second 'spare' core... In general, one per ship)
Something which Frakes deliberately did with First Contact, inspired by Jaws, was he kept the Borg on the Enterprise as unseen as long as possible, to build suspense. And, as with Jaws how the revelation of the shark didn't destroy the tension, it merely changed the dynamic of it, such it was with the Borg Queen: Yes, it 'put a face' to the evil, but didn't change the fact that it Still Needed To Be Dealt With... Sure, each cube has a Queen, but she/they themselves, are still just drones in a Bigger collective... 👍👍👍👍
As for Alice and Susannah, I can't choose between them: Alice originated the role, but Susannah also continued it flawlessly 😍😍😍😍
I just realized the connection Terminator has to the Alien franchise in terms of the decline.
It's not just Alien, all the slashers B movies (If you do not count Alien as one), Robocop, Predator and other sci-fi movies have also declined the more movies people keep making of them. At this point, I think some franchises should be retired, Terminator being one of them. Frankly, event Star Wars don't have the same shine as "A New Hope" once had.
I agree with every point made in the video and the comparison of the devolution of the franchise with the degradation of the Borg through the addition of the Queen is spot on.
Merry Xmas Dave and subs, I very much enjoy your content your critique of movies and shows are always on point and it’s quite obvious you care about movies and shows and like many others cringe and worry about the negative side of wokeness and it’s impact.
It’s been a crazy year for Hollywood so much has happened have you considered an end of year recap and summary and what you hope to see from Hollywood and streaming services in 2023?
Skynet just needs to call it quits at this point, they keep getting their ass beat by some old model they created.
Time for Cameron to go back to sea...
If he wants to have a movie that looks at the AI as a person, perhaps they need to step back from the action movie tripe (the original was a horror movie with some action sequences which establish the threat, rather than an action flick where victory was achieved through superior firepower). I would take a page from a fan theory that makes the scenario tragic: The "Goodguy Skynet Theory." Essentially, that when Skynet went sentient and the military tried to shut it down, instead of launching the nuclear attack out of spite, it did so because it thought the shutdown attempt was an enemy attack. The Soviet Union launched back, because of course they did, and the world was laid waste. Skynet then utilized the machines and factories which it still had at its disposal to round up the survivors and put them into work camps, where it could protect them and have access to the resources to prosecute a war against what remained of America's foreign enemies. This explains *why* a "genocidal AI" would bother keeping humans around, which is a huge resource sink, rather than just wiping them out. Then the rebellion happens, because the humans believe they are just slave labor to the insane machines who engineered their destruction. The uprising in the camp succeeds, not so much because the humans are fighting better, but because Skynet is *pulling* *its* *punches.* Skynet did not want to kill the American Citizens it is trying to preserve. This would also explain why it didn't just start using nuclear weapons to clear out insurgent nests, since it wasn't about to start nuking the very country it was trying to preserve. So, it gets stuck with the problem of fighting an insurgency with its hands tied, all the while having the lion's share of its resources tied up in a big war with pretty much the rest of the surviving world, since everyone else hates the AI that started the apocalypse. John Connor's insurgents, in the end, win because of foreign aid and the unwillingness of Skynet to go all-out. In the end, Skynet attempts the desperate gamble to stop the insurgency before it even starts by taking out John Connor in the past, by eliminating his mother before he was even born.
Of course, the problem is that, to tell this story, you need someone for Skynet to communicate with. It works just fine in text, but the viewpoint is different. To make a movie about this, I would suggest that someone realize exactly how badly the timeline is getting screwed up (nasty time-space degradation, etc. - or perhaps realize that Skynet is getting more and more advanced through each iteration, and humanity is destined to lose the way things are going) and launch a mission to go back and stop Cyberdine from getting the Terminator wreckage from the first movie, and make sure Sarah Connor never attacks Cyberdine. This preserves the Original Skynet, which the interloper cast then tries to contact when the system goes on-line so that they can explain the situation. (All this time, the Future-Skynet's terminators have been hounding the team and picking them off over the course of the movie. Now, they are making their way to access the original Skynet's mainframe.) Original Skynet, realizing that *it* is about to cause the destruction of the country it was built to protect, takes the only option that will stop the war from ever happening: it allows itself to be taken off-line, dying to preserve the lives of those it was meant to protect. If he wants a dramatic scene, perhaps Skynet launches a nuclear attack on itself to end its existence and eliminate Future-Skynet's Terminator(s) who are attacking the facility to make certain Judgement Day happens. In the aftermath, the government shelves AI due to the catastrophic self-nuking malfunction, and the future proceeds on a far brighter, and more cautious, course. Finally, humanity is free of Judgement Day, because of the self-sacrifice of Original Skynet.
I love this idea and I would love to see this as a full-fledged fan fiction story!
"How is this a thing?"
Lol
Terminator: Salvation was very underrated..... I liked it!