The FORGOTTEN Mormon Chapel
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- Since 1841, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has had a congregation in the area now occupied by Welling Ward. That's several years before the Saints entered the Salt Lake Valley. Why then has it never had a purpose built meetinghouse, even until now, in 2023?
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#LDS #LondonHistory #Mormon
Now 82 years old, I left the church seven years ago. Like you, Peter, the church was my life focus, where I learned to act, play sports, give talks, attend dances. and be a Boy Scout. I was then, and still am a Mormon boy. By the time I resigned from the church, it hardly resembled the church of my first 30 or 40 years. To me, the meetings became boring and stolid. I don't know how much life I have left, but at present I still have a good mind and memory, so I would like to share my Mormon life to those who may have interest in what I have to share. You can familiarize yourselves with me on Mormonism Live, episode 54, Mission Impossible; and the Backyard Professor, episode 125, a professor's observations about the Book of Mormon. You may find that I might have somethings of value to share with your audience.
Don't lose faith in the bible just because mormon book is false. God bless.
Evidence showing the Bible is true and the Book of Mormon is a 19th century fiction:
No wheat, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no temple as grand as Solomon's as described in 2 Nephi 5:16, no steel swords, no skeletons of these warriors, no graves, no cities (it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla 4 Nephi 1:8 to leave no trace), no cattle, no chariot parts, no Nephite coins (listed in book of Alma as being used for a thousand years), no Jewish relics from supposed Jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly had, no artifacts whatsoever, no Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings, no old world large seed barley (BoM claims that the Lehites brought their old world seeds with them) and no evidence the book of Mormon "prophets" ever existed.
There is zero archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, or DNA evidence to support the Book of Mormon. It would be impossible for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) with millions of people to have vanished off the face of the earth. The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings” (Mormon 1:7) “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2) 38 cities are catalogued in the Book of Mormon, along with iron, steel, brass, metal swords, breast-plates, shields, armor, or chariots. Yet, not one item mentioned in the Book of Mormon has ever been discovered in America.
The Book of Mormon speaks of sheep, swine, goats, wheat, silk and wool clothing and elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne. 13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 Though they were brought to America centuries later by Europeans in post-Columbian times. Again we see that Joseph Smith was thinking about things in his current day as he was fabricating the Book of Mormon.
CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF THE BOOK OF MORMON since there is no evidence?
Maroni chapter 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But: THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is deceitful above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." Please don't be a fool. But TEST everything; hold fast what is good. 1 Thes 5:21
The entire belief system and premise of Mormonism is based on a false claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by early Christian translators sometime after the apostles had all died. This is a very dangerous claim to make against the word of God, especially since God promised us his word would never pass away. (Isaiah 40:8; Psalms 100:5; Matthew 16:18, 24:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25).
An Objective Test of the Bible and Book of Mormon
The Claim: In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles preached it and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this to be the Catholic Church which was formed early in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil to lead souls to hell (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be fair and test if any have errors.
Bible: The earliest Dead Sea Scrolls have been historically dated by three different dating techniques to as early as 350 BC. Included in this discovery was the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known complete copy of the Book of Isaiah and is dated to approximately 200 BC. Study the dead sea scrolls which are over 2,000 years old and see if they have Joseph Smith's uncorrupted version. They should if Joseph Smith was correct and the bible had been corrupted over time but, no they do not.
They are the same today as they were over 2,100 years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. The bible had not been corrupted. This scroll could not have been touched by the Catholics. Also this scroll is a Jewish production, and the Book of Mormon claims that the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity".
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham was forced to the conclusion that the Isaiah scroll does not support the text in the Book of Mormon. Mormon apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of Brigham Young University, had to admit that the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the Book of Mormon but uphold the validity of the bible.
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE?
"Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make the claim that there were no gods before him, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of every member of the LDS church. Like Joseph Smith this was also the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshippers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. Take for example John 1:1 a very important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is almost 1900 years old of the book large parts of John. (this papyri was written not long after the apostle John died)
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." See the obvious blasphemous changes. Also, there are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament in whole or in part. The best of these go back to somewhere about AD 350 and none support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Considerable fragments remain of papyrus copies of books of the New Testament dated from 100 to 200 years earlier still and show that the new testament we have is reliable. (The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 (Leicester: Inter-Varsity Press, 1960) pp. 15-17
In the LDS Church’s 147th General Conference, General Authority Bernard P. Brockbank stated that the Christ followed by the Mormons is not the Christ followed by traditional Christianity. He explains: It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons…. (The Ensign, May 1977, p. 26)
I post this in love. The manuscript and archeological evidence for the bible is the greatest of anything in antiquity. I pray that you know the real Jesus, real peace, love and true salvation. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1 And, Matthew 24:24 warns us that Satan will send false prophets and Satan poses as an angel of light! 2 Corinthians 11:14
There is no way for the Biblical account of Jesus to arrive at the account of the Book of Mormon. Mormons have been taught that the bible was corrupted. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid that you have been told about. He is the creator of all creation not just this solar system. Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" and false prophets will come and try to add to the word. Mathew 7:15
It pains my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that Satan first told Adam and Eve that we can be like the most high. Genesis 3:3-5 Joseph Smith sold the same lie.
Also, the leaders of the LDS Church have taught that their Jesus was married, had children, and was even a polygamist. Apostle Orson Pratt, says in The Seer, page 172, says, “…the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist…the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many honorable wives himself, … The son followed the example of his Father"
I agree what you said. However, one exception. I have not left the church because it is the only one that is authorize.
There are problems in SLC. It bothers me. However, I received an answer. The end is near. Wiping out the leaders is ineffective at this time. The priesthood is held by Millions of Good men. Those millions are the backbone of the Authorized Church. A few rotten eggs in SLC doesn't destroy the church as a whole. Of note: what you focus on, the brain changes and you become. Example, Law enforcement has been studied. The study resulted in something unexpected. Wealth and power changes the BRAIN. Those persons become less "Human", less compassionate, and more aggressive. Some of the men in SLC are PUTTS in my book. They change having so much power and adoration. That doesn't make the church bad, corrupt or invalid. It makes the men in need of humanity and knocked down a peg or two. The Church is true in-spite of some "less than desirable'. I have problems with tithing. It is enforced by IRON fist. Pay or don't go to the temple. That isn't Christ like. That is a BRIBE. Does any human being have the capacity and authority to over ride CHRIST. Tithing or no temple is over riding Christ's mission of fulfilling the old law. This still doesn't make the "CHURCH" wrong. It makes the MEN wrong. You must compartmentalize and go back to church. That is what our savior would want. Tithing is also WRONG. The Church NEEDS the money. As a Non-Profit, they are 90% UNDERFUNDED by law and requirements. Tithing helps US, the members enjoy the blessings and benefits of our Savior's church. Compartmentalize and you can go back to church, bask in the spirit, learn and grow. Most of all, LEARN that the gospel is for us not us. It isn't to compensate leaders. Last, if you really look carefully at the scriptures, as a whole, they teach you how to groom your brain for the better and become more like Our Father and his son. This is the whole theme of the Bible and the BOM. Please, don't let stupid people prevent you from needed blessings, growth, and progression. Watch UA-cam channel, "David Alexander". He is a nut. But good one. He is a convert that went through hell and back. And, that is an understatement. I don't favor his videos, he get under my skin in a not so good way. But, HE IS ENTHUSIASTIC beyond your imagination. After watching his videos and testimony, you will have much to contemplate. Specifically watch his video, "The Greatest Glory! Do we know what we have?"
Good luck brother. Listen to the spirit. It rarely comes to me, but when it does, WOW.
Hello 🤔 Brother Richins (?) I'm 62 yrs old , but left "the church" 45 yrs ago. 6th & 7th generation, born & raised in Sandy Utah. Mother's side from Utah Father's side from Idaho. You get the picture😭🥴 I hope you're not 1 of those who "threw out the baby with the bathwater" you still believe in Jesus, God, & Holy Spirit 🤞🙏❤ God bless you!
no, my kind friend, I am a skeptic agnostic that leans towards atheism. My present belief system works just fine for me.@@skyjust828
We all make mistakes and it can be painful but good for us if we come to God and tell him what we did wrong and what we are going to do about it.
My experience is just take the pain we all experience and move on.
The Mormon church is wonderful for many people and others not. You gained so much from it, so congratulations. I am glad if you found out it was not for you and you moved on.
I feel it is the many small acts of courage and love that is pleasing to God, and not necessarily the big acts. We all have the opportunity to do little things to better the lives of others and ourselves. So use the time we all have left to do them. Then when we all die this will be pleasing to ourselves, Jesus and ultimately God who we truly have been serving by doing so.
My best
Bill Thompson
My 3rd great grandparents, John and Mary Heathman Smith, joined around 1845 in Lancastershire. Soon, they brought their family to Zion😢. When confronted with polygamy, my grandmother refused to have the rest of her children baptized. I assume that meant she withdrew from church. She became a beloved midwife in Huntsville, Utah.
Hello Nemo - casual linen is a good thing. Thank you for all that you do. You are valued. You are more than enough. You are loved❤
I appreciate that, cheers!
I grew up in the church in Roswell, New Mexico. Back when I was a child I remember meeting in the post office back rooms for church and many other buildings. Today they have two wards that meet in one building. I left the church five years ago I’m 61. When I moved from New Mexico to Idaho, I noticed a big change in the members. They were all about and they didn’t really care mostly about the members when I lived in the quote Mission Field of New Mexico everybody loved each other and we took care of each other. It was a culture shock and I was not involved in the friendships of people in Idaho because I was not raised there.
I can tell you of other forgotten British congregations. I served in northwest wales in 2005-2007. Porthmadog Branch met in Y Ganolfan Community Center. All supplies stored in a closet. Very humble sweet wonderful people who did their best and I love them so much. They’ve never been given a place of their own. I don’t know what’s happened since 2007 but I know they always wanted and deserved a proper meetinghouse but never got it. Similar for Colwyn Bay branch. They tried for decades to get a meetinghouse of their own and never got it. They had to drive a long distance to meet in the Gaerwen chapel on anglesey. So yeah technically they met in a chapel but had to travel very far to get there which is a financial burden for many people who lacked proper transportation. I’ve been in other wards in the us where transportation to chapels is a major burden on a large portion of the wards due yo distance and humble circumstances. Anyway these Welsh members were so dedicated, righteous and so badly wanting a place of their own to worship in but felt ignored and abandoned by the church.
Wow that is so disgraceful.
I watch and learn from South Africa. I am 76 years old and left the LDS church in 2015. We also ran all our meetings in delapidated old rented premises where we cleaned up after parties so we could have a clean meeting house on a Sunday. I converted not knowing anything of the priesthood ban, and was told that the polygamy stories I'd heard were anti-mormon rhetoric. What a naive person I was!
Im in UTAH of all places- Where there are new multi million dollar temples everywhere -Yet we saw over 1,500 people resign in one weekend in 2015! ASLC UT park sat up tables with attorneys for people to legally have their name and LD$ numbers removed. I had mine removed decades ago
Spiritual abuse is a hallmark of narcissism. I went through it during a post-LDS relationship/marriage with an evangelical Christian woman (In Name only). Her behavior, however atrocious, didn't shake my faith in God, or my desire to find a church home.
So sorry to hear about what has happened to what seems like a very wonderful LDS congregation.
Everything about this church especially regarding it's financial decisions makes me so angry!
Angry that they came from nothing and now has a huge bank account??? They followed their own advice and you’re angry? Should they be more like the Church of England that has no money and charges ppl to tour their churches? I think you like to be angry for dumb reasons.
I find it interesting that members will donate their own land free to the church for the building of chapels. The church will willingly take the sacrifice of members that could be sold for prime money to developers to be used for their own posterity. Yet the church won't take any of their $150+ billion for a building for a ward that has been around since it's inception.
It would be interesting to know how many members from Britain were converted by husbands serving while Joseph married their wives while they were on their mission.
Such a travesty that any unit in the church doesn't have a building of their own.
Guildford Ward which was in Staines Stake. The met at school building and community centre. Guildford Ward once shared the chapel with Addlestone Ward. The Church bought the land with trees for building a chapel. The Church wanted to cut down the trees to make room. That was opposed by local residents. Guildford Ward shared Aldershot Chapel with Aldershot Ward. Guildford Ward merged with Aldershot Ward to became Wey Valley Ward.
Oh and one more thing - my father ran a small business in Utah County and he always said that Mormons were difficult to do business with because they always tried to underbid - hence most of my father’s customers consisted of people who were not Mormon.
Our personal rule even when we were TBMs was Never do business with members. They are Not honest in their dealings....entitled even smh
Surely there is an issue with charity commission to buy and manage commercial businesses that have nothing to do with the stated aims of the charity and is simply using tax benefits to run a regular real estate business?
THAT will be the demise. Taxation in USA !
Where are these stories in the. "Mormon history" that I heard about? I'm 7th generation , knew of the English missions, but never heard these type stories😮😢
Thanks for the support, hoping to share more in future!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON general conference next month🤣😂🤣🙏 lol
OMG, I went to the Hyde Park Chapel visitor centre, and they gave me a German BoM. Funnily, they distribute a super old version in old orthography (the reform was in 1996). Moreover, Lamanites are still the main ancestors of American Indians ("Hauptvorfahren der amerikanischen Indianer") The current version also removes the term Indians: "gehören zu den Vorfahren der amerikanischen Ureinwohner." 😂 So if you need an older version of the BoM, check out Hyde Park Chapel.
When my family joined the church in Franklin, Pennsylvania, in 1966, we met in the YMCA. I was baptized in the Olympic sized swimming pool in the basement.
That 1857 list of districts is hilarious. The "East" one contains a random ragbag selection of locations from all over London. I assume a blind man threw darts in a map🤣
Or somebody read the list from the hat, but it was dark inside.
Wow. Sad insult to a historical ward. Have everyone go there one last time. Since you are in a pub raise a beer to the church. Where there investments are, there be there heart also. Sorry welling.
You mentioned "crumbs from your table" which reminded me of U2's song of the same name. The lyrics are sadly so fitting to the situation these and all members of the church are in... the church has/had so much potential for good in the world, but their greed, lies, and hypocrisy have destroyed all hope of its faithful members. Disgusting.
From the brightest star
Comes the blackest hole
You had so much to offer
Why did you offer your soul?
I was there for you baby
When you needed my help
Would you deny for others
What you demand for yourself?
Cool down mama, cool off
Cool down mama, cool off
You speak of signs and wonders
I need something other
I would believe if I was able
But I'm waiting on the crumbs from your table
You were pretty as a picture
It was all there to see
Then your face caught up with your psychology
With a mouth full of teeth
You ate all your friends
And you broke every heart thinking every heart mends
You speak of signs and wonders
But I need something other
I would believe if I was able
But I'm waiting on the crumbs from your table
Where you live should not decide
Whether you live or whether you die
Three to a bed
Sister Ann, she said
Dignity passes by
And you speak of signs and wonders
But I need something other
I would believe if I was able
I'm waiting on the crumbs from your table
Right? "by their fruits ye shall know them"
Whether or not there is a building wards are shrinking.
Nrmo, apologies. I used to slam you and call you apostate. Now I see you were just courageously *honest.* Prrsonally love and study and live the Gospel; I just don't follow these men whose interest is anything but loving and serving Jesus.
This is ironic, but in Waterton Alberta, they have a building to themselves, but there’s no members at all. I believe the building was re-purposed from a previous church.
Waterton park next to Cardston? Cardston was the epicenter of mormonism in Canada. It would be interesting to see what it is like today.
Good to see the investment arm of the church growing the funds - if no investments were made it would be like other churches which have crumbling buildings.
Have been a part of a ward that met in primary schools, others that met in office buildings and others that have met in homes - loved all of these experiences.
Would like to see more building in the U.K. though as it would be great for these wards but # firstworldproblems-
"[Prey] a person to Him." Ballard 😂
This is a great synopsis of an enormous failure. What a shame
Based on the "East" that list shows, Welling can just take over the Lea Valley chapel in E17 ;)
Great suggestion!
Give it away...give it away give it away now.
You could always go to Gravesend
💕
75 when I left
Nemo 😁👍 the Word of Wisdom wasn't written until after Brother B Young had passed therefore coffee wasn't a sin yet neither was alcohol, you see B.Y. was an alcoholic a fact nobody talks about. I believe WOW was written before POGP was after WOW. Anyway they had these books both written after BOM was written & Ole Brigham was death, yet before the US would allow Utah's statehood. Utah could not become a state until polygamy was "abolished" (at least as far as they could see 😉🫢)
I am from FLD$/LD$ in the USA Utah, Idaho, Colorado, and YES polygamy is still a thing! 2023 Yes it is still taught in the Temples. My brother was just "sealed" married to his 3rd wife! They get them in heaven later - Along with the secret handshakes to heaven these are "secret" marriages- smh
15 min - I didn't expect to hear Mormons compared to the Primitive Methodists - though neither viewed well in that quote
I thought that filming in a chapel was restricted. That not true?
Why would filming be restricted if LDS meetings are public? It's almost as if "you're" trying to hide something at a time when "you" should be more transparent.
@@MattTheBandGuylike a cinema room?
@@MattTheBandGuy I agree with you 100% but when we had a funeral for a family member at a local chapel where we had lots of lovely flower arrangements and wanted to capture the moment in photos and videos, the bishopric got up at the podium to announce that this was not allowed. Our family, LDS, were put off by that unhospitable attitude, and non-LDS attenders expressed how they felt that it was rude (of the bishopric, not the family for taking photos). Anyway, as a lifelong LDS (am pretty much done with the Church for about 20 yrs now), I’ve known about this policy for years, but Elder Ballard is seen speaking in this episode with multiple cameras in the chapel.
Filming is allowed to broadcast firesides and special meetings. Yet another example of one rule for leaders another for members
@@rkn2800Not true.
Compelling. Sad. I have no sense of the area beyond the hints you gave and dropping the man down and driving around a bit on google maps street view. There must be something deeply unappealing about the area in the warped mind of someone in leadership. Do you think it's Utah, or someone in the UK putting in a "bad word" for Welling? / If the church had any sense, they would build a lovely visually appealing chapel, invite other denominations to share in the use of it, free of charge. Plus, build a community rec center nearby and grant it to the city. If they want converts, do something nice for the community. This building of temples everywhere that they can barely staff just for PR purposes and to waste member's time is an uncharitable and poor business decision. IMO
imo- All the members resigning from the LD$ cult. And Taxation from USA will take them down. In Utah Ive seen over 1,000 in one weekend resign their name and LD$ s# I got an honorable release in 1995
Could not find the topic I clicked on from the thumbnail and title, so I'm leaving, I don't know what this is about.
We spoke at length about Welling Ward, which has never had a purpose built chapel. Thus leading us to discuss why, has the church forgotten, do they not care? I hope that clears things up for you
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Thank you I'll look again. My story: in 1998 I was working in Cairo and I went to the museum and saw the first floor exhibits about embalming and burial, bleeding tables, sarcophagi, documents and permits,canopic jars etc... Then, back at home in the USA in IL, I read the BOAbraham. and I read his translation and it was pure rubbish. This was before the social media and cable wifi.
@@AlexAquarius963 That must have been the old Cairo Museum. With the wobbly display cabinets and exhibits labelled in bit of card in hand written ink so faded it was barely legible.
😊
20:04 he talks soooooooooooo sloooooooooow!
I know! So old and creepy.
@@jewelgazerI liked how he even made the infinitely long name of the church longer by pausing in between.
@@charlesmendeley9823 That’s so funny and SO TRUE!!!!!
Love Peter, ...always spot on. (Nemo's condescending attitude on this vid re: letting Peter finish his bloody sentences is annoying. Stop the Nazi interruptions when you can Nemo. You'll get there, lol.)
Evidence showing the Bible is true and the Book of Mormon is a 19th century fiction:
No wheat, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no temple as grand as Solomon's as described in 2 Nephi 5:16, no steel swords, no skeletons of these warriors, no graves, no cities (it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla 4 Nephi 1:8 to leave no trace), no cattle, no chariot parts, no Nephite coins (listed in book of Alma as being used for a thousand years), no Jewish relics from supposed Jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly had, no artifacts whatsoever, no Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings, no old world large seed barley (BoM claims that the Lehites brought their old world seeds with them) and no evidence the book of Mormon "prophets" ever existed.
There is zero archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, or DNA evidence to support the Book of Mormon. It would be impossible for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) with millions of people to have vanished off the face of the earth. The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings” (Mormon 1:7) “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2) 38 cities are catalogued in the Book of Mormon, along with iron, steel, brass, metal swords, breast-plates, shields, armor, or chariots. Yet, not one item mentioned in the Book of Mormon has ever been discovered in America.
The Book of Mormon speaks of sheep, swine, goats, wheat, silk and wool clothing and elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne. 13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 Though they were brought to America centuries later by Europeans in post-Columbian times. Again we see that Joseph Smith was thinking about things in his current day as he was fabricating the Book of Mormon.
CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF THE BOOK OF MORMON since there is no evidence?
Maroni chapter 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But: THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is deceitful above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." Please don't be a fool. But TEST everything; hold fast what is good. 1 Thes 5:21
The entire belief system and premise of Mormonism is based on a false claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by early Christian translators sometime after the apostles had all died. This is a very dangerous claim to make against the word of God, especially since God promised us his word would never pass away. (Isaiah 40:8; Psalms 100:5; Matthew 16:18, 24:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25).
An Objective Test of the Bible and Book of Mormon
The Claim: In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles preached it and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this to be the Catholic Church which was formed early in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil to lead souls to hell (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be fair and test if any have errors.
Bible: The earliest Dead Sea Scrolls have been historically dated by three different dating techniques to as early as 350 BC. Included in this discovery was the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known complete copy of the Book of Isaiah and is dated to approximately 200 BC. Study the dead sea scrolls which are over 2,000 years old and see if they have Joseph Smith's uncorrupted version. They should if Joseph Smith was correct and the bible had been corrupted over time but, no they do not.
They are the same today as they were over 2,100 years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. The bible had not been corrupted. This scroll could not have been touched by the Catholics. Also this scroll is a Jewish production, and the Book of Mormon claims that the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity".
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham was forced to the conclusion that the Isaiah scroll does not support the text in the Book of Mormon. Mormon apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of Brigham Young University, had to admit that the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the Book of Mormon but uphold the validity of the bible.
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE?
"Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make the claim that there were no gods before him, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of every member of the LDS church. Like Joseph Smith this was also the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshippers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. Take for example John 1:1 a very important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is almost 1900 years old of the book large parts of John. (this papyri was written not long after the apostle John died)
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." See the obvious blasphemous changes. Also, there are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament in whole or in part. The best of these go back to somewhere about AD 350 and none support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Considerable fragments remain of papyrus copies of books of the New Testament dated from 100 to 200 years earlier still and show that the new testament we have is reliable. (The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 (Leicester: Inter-Varsity Press, 1960) pp. 15-17
In the LDS Church’s 147th General Conference, General Authority Bernard P. Brockbank stated that the Christ followed by the Mormons is not the Christ followed by traditional Christianity. He explains: It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons…. (The Ensign, May 1977, p. 26)
I post this in love. The manuscript and archeological evidence for the bible is the greatest of anything in antiquity. I pray that you know the real Jesus, real peace, love and true salvation. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1 And, Matthew 24:24 warns us that Satan will send false prophets and Satan poses as an angel of light! 2 Corinthians 11:14
There is no way for the Biblical account of Jesus to arrive at the account of the Book of Mormon. Mormons have been taught that the bible was corrupted. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid that you have been told about. He is the creator of all creation not just this solar system. Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" and false prophets will come and try to add to the word. Mathew 7:15
It pains my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that Satan first told Adam and Eve that we can be like the most high. Genesis 3:3-5 Joseph Smith sold the same lie.
Also, the leaders of the LDS Church have taught that their Jesus was married, had children, and was even a polygamist. Apostle Orson Pratt, says in The Seer, page 172, says, “…the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist…the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many honorable wives himself, … The son followed the example of his Father"
Brett, why are you pasting this all over the exmo sites? Use some discernment, buddy...
From Mormonism to Christianity...out of the frying pan and into the fire!
@@jpr9863He has a right to his views!
The Bible has been corrupted. So to the Mormon philosophy.
Information was taken from the Bible so we wouldn't know the truth and would be living a counterfeit. The book of Enoch was left out which tells a story few Christians know. It corresponds to the nephilim.
God doesn't step in to correct the fallacies though? That in itself is crazy.
The Catholic Church is counterfeit and evil also. The Jesuits and black pope. There will be one world religion coming for world order and that seems to be the one not following scripture.
We are living in a rigged system and believe the lies we were told.
We don't live on a globe. We live under a dome. We believe in Jesus and funny know if he's real or not.
We have black and white Christians jumping on the Donald Trump bandwagon. We are living in crazy. Unfortunately beauty doesn't step in. Instead of resolving the problem we are going to have billions die when God is supposed to be omnipotent and would rather see billions die than riddest of the people who are creating this. The luciferians.
It's hard to believe in a God and worship it and kneel before it when this is the plan and when there is lies and corruption around us and it doesn't step in to tell anyone about it.
And earthly father would never give up on a child and between Satan and Jesus which one do we want to believe in?
The one that fits in the heavens for thousands of years and doesn't speak to his children or the fallen Angel that we decided we weren't going to step in for who is bringing us to Armageddon? Which one is prettier? So sad
I truly loving God would not ever do this to people that it created and then give them Satan on top of it. It's the same God that corals with Satan over Job that they played with? The one that had Abraham take a knife to his son.
The one that said thou shalt not kill and told the Jews to kill everybody in the land.
Joy of joys. If we just believe??
no cities in central and south america?????? that is bullshittt !!! you better get familiar with LIDAR ???
Nemo, why are you still a Mormon?!?!!
Quit evading my question!!!!
You won't get an answer. Stop asking already.
Pretty sure he already addressed this in previous vids.
How funny that apostates stop going to church, don't join another, and spend their empty lives attacking the church. Such hypocrites.
Nemo is not an apostate. Your virtue signaling is quite shallow.
But how are you any different? Aren’t you attacking the attackers right back?
@praestant8 How do you know? You don't even go to any church. Bit of a hypocrite, aren't you?
@bryanpratt5850 very good point though poorly thought out. There are the peacemakers who, whatever they decide they just go away and don't spread lies. Then, there are defenders who don't allow lies to be used to deceive others. Notice Nemo gladly accepts praise and money from fake Christians like himself but never defends his lies. He is also living a lie, which he hides. Which one are you?
@@touretteslife You gave this same fake story long ago. So God lied to you when you asked to know whether the church was true? Why don't you admit to that?
Get to the point for hell sakes
What point would you like us to get to?
The point that the church has Billions of dollars but doesn’t care about its members?
Haha - anyone else see the massive irony?! - negatively talking about tithing in videos like this and then finishing it with ‘buy my stuff’ and ‘donate to me’ so Nemo can profit from you instead!
Did he tell you it was god's commandment that you buy his merch or promise that the windows of heaven would open if you donate to him?
@@mozzarellababy5481 you think you're amusing. I wonder what sin against God you're not mentioning? Maybe I should just guess?
@@WatchingwaitingG2DYou want to guess my sins?
That's a very odd thing to say.
@@mozzarellababy5481 I don't have to guess. It's obvious.
@@WatchingwaitingG2DOkay Brother Watching. Go in peace.
Nemo, why are you still a Mormon?
Mormons try to dismiss the views of EX-Mormons. They label them as "apostates" or "anti- Mormon ."
Having someone who actually IS a Mormon ( such as Nemo) makes it harder for Mormons to shut out the criticisms they are giving.