I can’t thank John enough for this channel, it literally saved my life! I’m 38 years old, served a mission, married in the temple, and have served in my bishopric and I have recently left the church. This channel got my head out of the sand and has helped me throughout my steps of deconstruction. Best UA-cam Channel ever!❤
The best to you. I'm now exmo but never had callings to the level of your experience. I'm happy that you've found a better way and finding this channel which has helped so many.
I was Celeste's husband. It was terrifying for both of us. Dragged on for years with me trying to be in but really being out. It was over 3 years before he even considered looking at the other side of things. We are now both happily out. It's 10,000x better this way!
Listening to Celeste Davies was a breath of fresh air. I left the church after 53 years. Listening to her finally sealed the deal for me. I was feeling a little guilty, but now I feel good. The BIG LOVE was wonderful.
This is such an important mormon story for me. Im one month out of the church after being in as an adult convert for the last 15 years. I am still agonizing with exactly how to move forward and create my new spiritual worldview. My husband grew up in the church (from a very faithful LDS family) and brought me in when we started dating in high school. I had a complicated family history and trauma filled childhood and was always longing and looking for answers, guidance, love and stability. My husband then left the church before we married in our early 20s. I join the church right after we started having children. That was heartwrenching for both of us for several years because I was very harsh and believedI would bring him back and finally make my perfect eternal family. Hearing about Celeste's challenges when her husband was pulling away was so poignant to me. We have struggled and I parented as a convert, part-member mother for the last 15 years. So much pain, so much guilt, so much cognitive dissonance. I made life hard for all of us for so long, including myself. I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and a therapist and it has become harder and harder year after year to keep up "my over burdened shelf" until it smashed down at the beginning of September in the wake of more church supported abusive behavior (ie Ruby Franke and Jody Hildebrand). I am now overwhelmed, up and down, trying to make sense of life on the "outside" and doing it with authenticity, grace and patience for myself, my husband and my kids. Thank you John and Margie for ALL you do!! I cant say thank you enough. And thank you to Celeste for sharing your story. Mormon stories is one of my main lifelines right now!!! Thank you!
Yeah, the ‘shame cycle’ is exhausting! Once I had my ‘breakdown’, I realised that this couldn’t possibly be from an unconditional loving, kind, God. I started feeling that these demands put upon us in the church were from the men that ran it! But I had no proof of that. So when I started coming across the Gospel Topics Essays, CES Letter, eye-opening things in the Journals of Discourses, and more, I had all of the ‘proof’ that I needed. I took my shame chains off January 2019!
I’m not Mormon but these podcasts are very educational and gives great insights and clarity in understanding how to interact with ex Mormons! As I live in Utah and have my entire life. My compassion has expanded ❤ As an ex catholic, I can empathize. The kingdom of God is within you as we trust in a higher power … perhaps our higher power and the extra terrestrials! Lol 😂
What I believe fervently is that it is important to understand the “bad” parts of the church are still the church even though there might be good. So if one chooses to stay, they are accepting the bad, even though they claim to protest against the bad. Another excellent interview. Celeste is a breath of fresh air. Thank you.
I love what she said about Carolyn Lynn Pearson giving her the permission to question the brethren. I've been out for 18 months and I still feel like there's this part of me defending them. Today I got that same permission from Celeste, so thank you!
Hey fellow exmo. I turned my back 5 years ago. Im still struggling to seperate myself from the faith. I "we" instead of "them" i find myself coming up with excuses for anti mormon facts, even though i know their right, i think in that case i dont want any misinformation. Your not alone honey
2:25:00 I'm with you on this. When I started looking at the "Plan of Happiness" through a critical lens, I realized that the God I had grown up worshipping is a tyrant who shows blatant and ridiculous favoritism towards a very small portion of his children and neglect and abuse towards the rest. That is not a God I can believe in anymore.
Celeste's aha moment when she thought about all the non-Mormon people sitting in their churches thinking the same thing that Mormons think....that they are so lucky to be a part of God's one true church, should be a part of every rational soul who has an ounce of empathy. This happened to me as a teen when I realized that we are Mormons, Baptists, Methodists, etc. mainly due to where we're born, which family we're born into. Babies are not born with a religious identity. It needs to be taught just like all cultural aspects of who we are. So how does the religion we're born into automatically become the one true religion? I had no idea that there were other religions in the world until I took world history as a college freshman, and that was a mind blower. Babies born in India will grow up with Hindu beliefs. Babies born in Arabia will grow up to be Muslims. Thai babies will be Buddhists. So this made me look at Christianity itself in the same way that I had learned to look at the various Christian churches who imagined that they were the one true Christian church. Why should anyone assume that being born into Christianity automatically endowed it with being the one true religion in the world? If you imagine an alien from another planet arriving on earth and learning about all of mankind's religions, would there be an objective way to show that any one of them was somehow better, or more valid, than the others? There's no way. If we want the truth, then we have to investigate independently, without bias.
I'm so glad I was born in the Church, so that I could have gone through the experience of leaving it. I grew so much more from leaving the Church than from being in the Church.
Yes absolutely!! I definitely learned more important stuff from leaving the church than being in it. But, it sucks being born in the church and having your Mormon belief so ingrained in you that at times you don't even know if it's your own belief or your Mormon indoctrination
How can I give this enough hearts and love. This was my experience too, I was finally released from the clouds of the middle man gods and my Big God shone through directly to my heart and soul and this Great Spirit told me that I was perfect, how I have always been worthy and the love was so profound and simple. It was truth. It was something I always knew and had known innately before the little gods attempted to dictate the rules from Big God. I now knew the little gods were small and little and had sadly just been telling me lies. I was and have been at peace in my soul but the journey, single mom in 40’s leaving the church alone, has been a process. My identity crisis that, it’s not even true, happened right before this. It made it a more gentle, instead of crash, it was demolished and simply dissipated in the air.
I was never a Mormon but I am a Californian. Prop 8 was the only thing I actually colluded with and gave permission to my 16 year old daughter to commit vandalism. I believe the pro prop 8 signs simply said Yes On, across the top, with a giant 8 taking up most of the sign. One day as we were driving and noticing all the signs in our conservative East County San Diego area, my kid says," I keep wishing that the 8 had a big H on top of it. We shared the same sentiments, plus i was impressed with her cleverness, so i said "well you can". We bought those really giant Sharpies and a few nights later with a few of her friends, we drove around all over the place, for at least a couple of hours. I would drop them in a good spot with lots of signs, that many kids made quick work if it, and we were out of there in minutes. Security cameras weren't exactly a risk in those days. I still feel no mom shame over it and actually still get a rush of great satisfaction. So yeah, blame my lack of morals on my Atheism. Or blame my sense of right and wrong on my need tob push back against living amongst a pile of uber right wing Christians. I'd kind of had it.
Up until now my most moving Mormon Stories UA-cam podcast was Lila Tueller experience when she was crossing the veil and being with her brother who had recently passed away and her description of how the love she felt there was indescribable… it surrounded her and was unconditional! As I’m finishing up this podcast the same feelings are swelling in my heart! I have never felt as loved as I do now, listening to you… I found the song “Everything is Holy Now” and I’m in tears! Thank you for this beautiful message!!! It is life saving and life loving❤❤❤
The teachings of Jesus in the new testament take on an entirely new meaning when read from the perspective of Celeste's awakening to the true nature of "big love". There is nothing we need to do and nowhere we need go to find God, because he/she is already within us.
2:34:37 Mormon god is literally the parent who says, "if you don't live the way I want you to, I never want to see you again. You are not welcome in my house, you are not welcome in my presence".
She has a storytelling gift… genuinely moving and I’m following along with her emotions as though I’m facing a faith crisis and anxiety in a marriage over this as a never mo atheist. Powerful 👏🏼
Your description of big love is so beautiful. Thank you for helping me feel “gods” love again. God is love not a dictator guy in heaven bound by universal rules
Of the hundreds of hours of Mormon Stories that I’ve watched, this has to be one of my all-time favorite episodes. Can’t wait for part 2! “Big love would NEVER” 👏🙌
It is remarkable how much I can relate with Celeste’s experiences. The scriptures “Trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not unto thine own understanding,” and “No unclean thing can dwell with God,” shaped me immensely. And like Celeste, I found it relatively easier for me to obey all the rules than the people around me, so I held myself to an even higher standard. Thank you, Celeste, for sharing your story. It is incredibly validating for me.
I was laughing at her "a little lone time" in the bathroom. She was preparing for motherhood where there is A LOT of lone time in the bathroom! LOL I am 1 hour in and I have to say I love this woman. So funny and refreshing.
I also had that moment where I leaned over to my kid during sacrament meeting and said “we don’t believe that teaching or idea about LGBTQ folks” and I thought “why am I coming to a church where I have to tell my kid we don’t believe what they teach about sexuality. Why am I reading every lesson so I can know which lessons to keep him home from” I stopped bringing him.
“Be worthy of the spirit….” That statement made me sad. Such a heavy, shaming burden. High demand religions have caused so much suffering in their quest to control and continue to feed itself😱 Thank you for this heartfelt and revealing interview.👏❤️🙏
When my wife had hit her faith crisis a year ago, i held so tight to the line in my patriarchal blessing which told me to give my future wife "the space to work out her own salvation". I bit my tongue in all the panic of seeing her listen to ex-mormon podcasts from satan, and when i told her i would stay in the church for the sake of our son's future, she asked "what if he ends up gay?" That broke the shelf for me. Glad i listened to my patriarchal blessing lol
Coming from a Christian background, I can relate a lot! When Celeste talks about holding herself to a higher standard than other believers around her bc "following the rules" is easy for her, that really hit a spot in me. "With great power comes great responsibility" - that kinda propels you into a weird feeling of superiority, coupled with asceticism, fear of life beyond lines of belief and endless self flagellation... Personally, I still feel trapped in that mode of thinking and hope to break free at some point. Eager to learn about what comes next in Celeste's story, back to the video :)
This is unbelievable! I have said the exact same thing about an angry god and a nice Jesus. I just had a revelation that the Mormon God is not real, and I am trying to establish a relationship with God and he is actively trying to rebuild my trust. This is Word for Word my life.
I was raised Catholic, but I can really relate to this HARD. My scrupulosity was on fire during my childhood, teenage, and a lot of my adult life. I could never be good enough. Can never confess enough etc.
My mission was a bad bad time and I knew it. I didn't say it but I knew the members of my ward thought I wasn't better. Not humble enought, to rebelius. And the said it I was never good enought. At the end it was the best. More than 10 years after my mission I realized that if I didn't leave, the church will kill me. Because nothing about me was right. I had to change everything. I had to lost me
2:54:18 oh my gosh! I was also the primary music leader during my final belief deconstruction. I like you just did not know how to leave and I was still thinking I could change the church from within. I wanted to start a movement and petition the church. (Still do actually) I went through a lot of thought acrobatics to keep teaching the songs! One was that I was just the same as a hired musician coming to do a musical number in a church, so I comment have to believe the stuff, I just had to teach it. So I stopped bearing testimony and strictly taught lyrics. After a while I couldn’t reconcile being complicit in the kids’ indoctrination and attachment to the church because music was a HUGE way that I connected to spirituality. When Covid closed church, I was so relieved but in May our ward started doing zoom primary every week so I was back on. I resorted to teaching songs about nature and the more neutral Mother’s Day and Father’s Day songs. I picked verses to teach instead of whole songs so I could hand pick what I taught so I didn’t betray myself and still do my calling. When it came time to do the primary program the next fall 2021. I said I could no longer teach sufficiently over zoom so they needed to call someone to teach the kids in person since they were all back in person and I had someone at home who was immunocompromised so I was still attending church virtually. It was whole set up to have me teach primary that just didn’t need to keep happening. They were sad to see me go but I was very very relieved. I still do attend virtually even though I could go in person. I just know if would be hard for me not to be disruptive with correcting doctrinal and historical understanding.
Celeste Davis Instagram spoke to me and provided so much comfort when I was in the beginning and heart of my deconstruction. I'm soooooooo happy to hear her consult being interviewed ❤️❤️
I resonate with this. I realized that there are so many things about the structure and culture and history of the church that just doesn’t make any sense to me at all. I’d just been told to repeat “the church is true, the Book of Mormon is true, Joseph smith was a prophet” over and over again until I believed it.
Something that is really sticking out to me since I left Mormons is that that they worship a very exclusionary god. My God excludes no one. Big difference.
This is so insightful! I remember back in 2018 I was just released from the bishopric and I got called to be the gospel doctrine teacher and my second lesson I taught I told of a time when I was the elders quorum president and my wife wanted me to stay home one night to help her and I told her that I couldn’t because I need to serve the lord. I was telling the class that day that I chose to let my wife suffer because I had to serve and I was expressing my feelings that I didn’t believe that was what god wanted me to do but I did it anyway because I was so concerned with how people saw me and I was willing to put my wife on the “alter” to satisfy my own ego. I was so wrong in this way of thinking but needless to say I was released from that calling the next week. I see so many of these amazing stories and the suffering that people are going through and nothing is being done about it internally. My heart aches for so many people that are not being heard. I’m appreciative of the voice that you and your wife are giving to so many that feel all hope is lost and the devastation they are going through just in the thought of maybe leaving the church. 🙏🏻
I relate to Celeste so much! I am seeing God is such a new light now that I know the church isn't completely true. He is "Big Love" My favorite Mormon Stories interview.
Excellent program, informative, enlightening. This guest is an inspiration , providing optimism in a very turbulent time that people like this will make the world a better place than the one we who proceeded them have dumped on them.
Yes! Once I realized how differently each of us experiences god it finished any religious affiliation I'd ever had. It was at a large Xian church in Grand Junction. It was also after I'd left the Mormon church, by several years. I walked out of this Xian church shaking my head trying to make room for this important realization.
I was raised Catholic and am now non-religious with some secular Buddhist leanings. I've never been Mormon but really enjoy your videos and the community that has sprouted up around you. Thank you.
I had a very similar experience. I remember when God shifted from being a distant personage outside of myself that I could never quite reach to something that was right inside of me. Nobody had to tell me that. I just knew it. Now that I have heard so many other people describe the same thing, it's awesome.
I feel so connected to the multifaceted God she brought up where there is constant contradiction. Haven’t left the church just inactive and questioning but see so much of myself in the struggles Celeste had.
Celeste!! It’s Angela (Mallory’s mom)-Sharing BIG LOVE with you, my Dear One! Funny…we love the same authors :). So proud of you!!! We continue this journey…❤❤❤. Ps. I love Mormon Stories 😊
“I was a good girl” … I totally understand this! I felt like I had to go to the bishop to confess that I have been playing with face cards, since one of the prophets had said that playing with those were “the appearance of evil,” meaning gambling. So much shame and spiritual abuse! Thank you for this podcast!
The part where she talks about the best thing women can become is the wife of a mission President, the wife of a general authority. What about being on the General Relief Society Board! Oooooooo! And eternally we get to be queens and priestesses to our husbands! What does that even mean??? Nobody knows
I understand that box I could never be good enough. I tried . However I know what it feels like to have the spirit fall on you intensely.. that’s real. God loves us enough to allow us spiritual experiences. That’s not wrong.
2:26:00 I always doubt with this “plan of salvation “ it’s never made sense on my life! It was like just the best of the best are coming back to me again 😢 that feeling was hunting me ever!!! Till I discovered that Mormons don’t adore same Jesus as the rest of Christians! PS : Mormon stores podcast are my favorite show on my days off. Thanks John!
I’m a Christian (Methodist) and I wonder why God created us to be eternally damned. The only exception to eternal damnation is accepting Christ as your savior. That’s great for us Christians. But it’s not great for everyone else because it excludes so many people. Why would God create some people when He knows they will spend eternity in hell? I really struggle with this because it doesn’t seem loving and we’re told God is Love. So that just doesn’t make sense. Mormans aren’t the only ones that are confused. As for me…I’m not sure “big love, the spirit is everywhere” progressive Christianity is the answer. Celeste is asking some of the same questions that Christians ask too. Personally…I’m still seeking answers.
This guest is wonderful! Intelligent and totally engaging. I've learned some new ways to look at my own situation with religious indoctrination. Please have her on again. I have a nerd crush on her brain.
Amazing, amazing, amazing. Thank you for sharing. Also, the Unity Church is its own church. It was founded by a couple in the 1800’s, I believe, who espoused the beliefs of “law of attraction” or that you could heal your own body through the power of the mind.
As someone from Iowa, I think some relevant context for this episode is that the time they spent in Iowa was after gay marriage was legalized in Iowa, but before it was legal nationally. Iowa City at the time was very proudly, staunchly, vocally pro gay marriage. This absolutely would've affected their experience and the conversations they had during their time in Iowa.
I have attended the Unity Church for 40 years. It is very different from the Unitarian church. Unity was developed from Christian principles. It is a positive practical Christian church. It is a church about love and the teachings often come from a metaphysical application of the Bible.
The analogy of the whipping; I've always struggled with the concept of needing a savior. Why would God require anyone to be whipped? Why would that be required? We would fire that principle!
2:51 I don’t know how many wards are in Allen TX but we had some friends a couple of decades ago who moved to Allen TX. I know it’s a long shot but, Celeste, do you by any chance know Colette Hoffman?
celeste so wonderfully stated that she outsourced her consciousness to the church because her insides were scary and dangerous. i'm a never mormon and i outsourced it to my smother mother under the guise that i was stupid. self reflecting was dangerous because i was too stupid to do it right. what nonsense. complete insanity. i'm so angry about this. i can relate to mormon stories, i just replace church/god with my smother, and replace rituals and myths with my own family dysfunction.
I have to say I thought everyone who belonged to a different church than I did must have felt it was the true church. Why else would they stay in their church? When I wanted to have my long time best friend in my wedding party my dad said no way because she was not Catholic and would go to hell for not being Catholic. That was my aha moment where I knew I was right.. We remain good friends today 65yrs later..❤👭
And then there is my family. Single mom, 2 girls, we had neighbors kids over, kids played together, until neighbors realized we went to a Christian church. The parents refused to let their children play any more with my girls because we were not Mormon, and didnt think we had the values and morals they had! Really my girls were 5 and 6!!! Don't even get me started about 9th grade and seminary! Friends they had since elementary were no longer friends because we were not Mormon!! All of a sudden my girls were bullied and humiliated by these "good Mormon girls". Had i not been a follower of the real Jesus Christ i would hVe smacked the @#** out of these better than thou girls! Now i have a granddaughter starting 9th grade. Jesus take the wheel! This is life in Utah! 🙏🙏❤❤
After the 2:26:00 mark, when you are talking about the very few who are going to ‘make it’…..add to that this comment that I had heard from other Mormons; That if you were ‘born into the Covenant’, (born into Mormonism), it was because you were VERY GOOD and ‘valiant’ in your pre-existence. And if you never find Mormonism, it’s because you were not going to make it anyway! Talk about judgemental!
I've given up trying to make sense of the LDS God. I have no doubt at all God exists but the God the church has been describing to me all my life is a mass of contradictions and frequently makes no sense at all to me. I'm really hoping the church is wrong about some things because I find them very unattractive. My purpose for a long time has been to figure out who God really is and why the heck he thought I should be born into this church because all I've done in it is make people really angry at me a lot. And all they've done is make me despair of the intelligence, logic, humanity, and morality of people. He must have known I would irritate the Mormons every single time I opened my mouth and that they would drive me crazy. What was he thinking? Not a clue. I do think that if you asked 100 people to define God, you'd get 100 totally different descriptions, regardless of religion or no religion.
Oh my God, that article you wrote on how to pray was given to me by an STL when I was left physically disabled by my mission! I was praying if to go home or not from the mission and I just kept getting no answer 😅
When you said "I'm wrestling with this god" that's a very Jewish POV to arrive out, since "Yisrael" ("Israel") literally means "wrestles with God." Sitting with the difficult things and the uncertainties is the whole point.
I can’t thank John enough for this channel, it literally saved my life! I’m 38 years old, served a mission, married in the temple, and have served in my bishopric and I have recently left the church. This channel got my head out of the sand and has helped me throughout my steps of deconstruction. Best UA-cam Channel ever!❤
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Amen brother
Awesome
@shaunjeff45 Yes he's been exco'd. But I don't blame him one bit for recovering the tithing he has paid as a TBM. I say good on him.
The best to you. I'm now exmo but never had callings to the level of your experience. I'm happy that you've found a better way and finding this channel which has helped so many.
I was Celeste's husband. It was terrifying for both of us. Dragged on for years with me trying to be in but really being out. It was over 3 years before he even considered looking at the other side of things. We are now both happily out. It's 10,000x better this way!
Listening to Celeste Davies was a breath of fresh air. I left the church after 53 years. Listening to her finally sealed the deal for me. I was feeling a little guilty, but now I feel good. The BIG LOVE was wonderful.
This is such an important mormon story for me. Im one month out of the church after being in as an adult convert for the last 15 years. I am still agonizing with exactly how to move forward and create my new spiritual worldview. My husband grew up in the church (from a very faithful LDS family) and brought me in when we started dating in high school. I had a complicated family history and trauma filled childhood and was always longing and looking for answers, guidance, love and stability. My husband then left the church before we married in our early 20s. I join the church right after we started having children. That was heartwrenching for both of us for several years because I was very harsh and believedI would bring him back and finally make my perfect eternal family. Hearing about Celeste's challenges when her husband was pulling away was so poignant to me. We have struggled and I parented as a convert, part-member mother for the last 15 years. So much pain, so much guilt, so much cognitive dissonance. I made life hard for all of us for so long, including myself. I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and a therapist and it has become harder and harder year after year to keep up "my over burdened shelf" until it smashed down at the beginning of September in the wake of more church supported abusive behavior (ie Ruby Franke and Jody Hildebrand). I am now overwhelmed, up and down, trying to make sense of life on the "outside" and doing it with authenticity, grace and patience for myself, my husband and my kids. Thank you John and Margie for ALL you do!! I cant say thank you enough. And thank you to Celeste for sharing your story. Mormon stories is one of my main lifelines right now!!! Thank you!
The shame and fear is very strong in this church. Very strong. I hope you all find freedom, love, and strength.
Yeah, the ‘shame cycle’ is exhausting! Once I had my ‘breakdown’, I realised that this couldn’t possibly be from an unconditional loving, kind, God. I started feeling that these demands put upon us in the church were from the men that ran it! But I had no proof of that. So when I started coming across the Gospel Topics Essays, CES Letter, eye-opening things in the Journals of Discourses, and more, I had all of the ‘proof’ that I needed. I took my shame chains off January 2019!
Celeste shows me that our conception of God is a personal act of creation and an act of the heart. Very beautiful.
I’m not Mormon but these podcasts are very educational and gives great insights and clarity in understanding how to interact with ex Mormons! As I live in Utah and have my entire life. My compassion has expanded ❤
As an ex catholic, I can empathize. The kingdom of God is within you as we trust in a higher power … perhaps our higher power and the extra terrestrials! Lol 😂
I'm sorry for you do not be proud you are excatholic you are one of the 500 who left Christ the Eucharist should get a catachism see peace
I enjoy hearing stories of the rediscovery of spirituality without organized religion. How we can all be "good" without the fear of church and god.
What I believe fervently is that it is important to understand the “bad” parts of the church are still the church even though there might be good. So if one chooses to stay, they are accepting the bad, even though they claim to protest against the bad.
Another excellent interview. Celeste is a breath of fresh air. Thank you.
I love what she said about Carolyn Lynn Pearson giving her the permission to question the brethren. I've been out for 18 months and I still feel like there's this part of me defending them. Today I got that same permission from Celeste, so thank you!
Hey fellow exmo. I turned my back 5 years ago. Im still struggling to seperate myself from the faith. I "we" instead of "them" i find myself coming up with excuses for anti mormon facts, even though i know their right, i think in that case i dont want any misinformation. Your not alone honey
2:25:00 I'm with you on this. When I started looking at the "Plan of Happiness" through a critical lens, I realized that the God I had grown up worshipping is a tyrant who shows blatant and ridiculous favoritism towards a very small portion of his children and neglect and abuse towards the rest. That is not a God I can believe in anymore.
Celeste's aha moment when she thought about all the non-Mormon people sitting in their churches thinking the same thing that Mormons think....that they are so lucky to be a part of God's one true church, should be a part of every rational soul who has an ounce of empathy. This happened to me as a teen when I realized that we are Mormons, Baptists, Methodists, etc. mainly due to where we're born, which family we're born into. Babies are not born with a religious identity. It needs to be taught just like all cultural aspects of who we are. So how does the religion we're born into automatically become the one true religion? I had no idea that there were other religions in the world until I took world history as a college freshman, and that was a mind blower. Babies born in India will grow up with Hindu beliefs. Babies born in Arabia will grow up to be Muslims. Thai babies will be Buddhists. So this made me look at Christianity itself in the same way that I had learned to look at the various Christian churches who imagined that they were the one true Christian church. Why should anyone assume that being born into Christianity automatically endowed it with being the one true religion in the world? If you imagine an alien from another planet arriving on earth and learning about all of mankind's religions, would there be an objective way to show that any one of them was somehow better, or more valid, than the others? There's no way. If we want the truth, then we have to investigate independently, without bias.
I always say we can't piggyback on our parents religion. We alone are in charge of our own salvation.
I'm so glad I was born in the Church, so that I could have gone through the experience of leaving it. I grew so much more from leaving the Church than from being in the Church.
I love this attitude. I want to get where you are at.
Me 2🙏 Now I found the real Jesus ❤
Yes absolutely!! I definitely learned more important stuff from leaving the church than being in it. But, it sucks being born in the church and having your Mormon belief so ingrained in you that at times you don't even know if it's your own belief or your Mormon indoctrination
How can I give this enough hearts and love. This was my experience too, I was finally released from the clouds of the middle man gods and my Big God shone through directly to my heart and soul and this Great Spirit told me that I was perfect, how I have always been worthy and the love was so profound and simple. It was truth. It was something I always knew and had known innately before the little gods attempted to dictate the rules from Big God. I now knew the little gods were small and little and had sadly just been telling me lies. I was and have been at peace in my soul but the journey, single mom in 40’s leaving the church alone, has been a process. My identity crisis that, it’s not even true, happened right before this. It made it a more gentle, instead of crash, it was demolished and simply dissipated in the air.
I was never a Mormon but I am a Californian. Prop 8 was the only thing I actually colluded with and gave permission to my 16 year old daughter to commit vandalism. I believe the pro prop 8 signs simply said Yes On, across the top, with a giant 8 taking up most of the sign. One day as we were driving and noticing all the signs in our conservative East County San Diego area, my kid says," I keep wishing that the 8 had a big H on top of it. We shared the same sentiments, plus i was impressed with her cleverness, so i said "well you can". We bought those really giant Sharpies and a few nights later with a few of her friends, we drove around all over the place, for at least a couple of hours. I would drop them in a good spot with lots of signs, that many kids made quick work if it, and we were out of there in minutes. Security cameras weren't exactly a risk in those days. I still feel no mom shame over it and actually still get a rush of great satisfaction. So yeah, blame my lack of morals on my Atheism. Or blame my sense of right and wrong on my need tob push back against living amongst a pile of uber right wing Christians. I'd kind of had it.
That’s absolutely amazing.🤩🎉
I was done with Mormons after my first visit to the temple to marry
Up until now my most moving Mormon Stories UA-cam podcast was Lila Tueller experience when she was crossing the veil and being with her brother who had recently passed away and her description of how the love she felt there was indescribable… it surrounded her and was unconditional! As I’m finishing up this podcast the same feelings are swelling in my heart! I have never felt as loved as I do now, listening to you… I found the song “Everything is Holy Now” and I’m in tears! Thank you for this beautiful message!!! It is life saving and life loving❤❤❤
The teachings of Jesus in the new testament take on an entirely new meaning when read from the perspective of Celeste's awakening to the true nature of "big love". There is nothing we need to do and nowhere we need go to find God, because he/she is already within us.
2:34:37 Mormon god is literally the parent who says, "if you don't live the way I want you to, I never want to see you again. You are not welcome in my house, you are not welcome in my presence".
She has a storytelling gift… genuinely moving and I’m following along with her emotions as though I’m facing a faith crisis and anxiety in a marriage over this as a never mo atheist.
Powerful 👏🏼
Your description of big love is so beautiful. Thank you for helping me feel “gods” love again. God is love not a dictator guy in heaven bound by universal rules
Of the hundreds of hours of Mormon Stories that I’ve watched, this has to be one of my all-time favorite episodes. Can’t wait for part 2!
“Big love would NEVER” 👏🙌
It is remarkable how much I can relate with Celeste’s experiences. The scriptures “Trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not unto thine own understanding,” and “No unclean thing can dwell with God,” shaped me immensely. And like Celeste, I found it relatively easier for me to obey all the rules than the people around me, so I held myself to an even higher standard. Thank you, Celeste, for sharing your story. It is incredibly validating for me.
I was laughing at her "a little lone time" in the bathroom. She was preparing for motherhood where there is A LOT of lone time in the bathroom! LOL I am 1 hour in and I have to say I love this woman. So funny and refreshing.
I love so much when Margi is involved with the episodes! ❤
I also had that moment where I leaned over to my kid during sacrament meeting and said “we don’t believe that teaching or idea about LGBTQ folks” and I thought “why am I coming to a church where I have to tell my kid we don’t believe what they teach about sexuality. Why am I reading every lesson so I can know which lessons to keep him home from” I stopped bringing him.
“Be worthy of the spirit….” That statement made me sad. Such a heavy, shaming burden. High demand religions have caused so much suffering in their quest to control and continue to feed itself😱 Thank you for this heartfelt and revealing interview.👏❤️🙏
When my wife had hit her faith crisis a year ago, i held so tight to the line in my patriarchal blessing which told me to give my future wife "the space to work out her own salvation". I bit my tongue in all the panic of seeing her listen to ex-mormon podcasts from satan, and when i told her i would stay in the church for the sake of our son's future, she asked "what if he ends up gay?" That broke the shelf for me. Glad i listened to my patriarchal blessing lol
Coming from a Christian background, I can relate a lot!
When Celeste talks about holding herself to a higher standard than other believers around her bc "following the rules" is easy for her, that really hit a spot in me. "With great power comes great responsibility" - that kinda propels you into a weird feeling of superiority, coupled with asceticism, fear of life beyond lines of belief and endless self flagellation... Personally, I still feel trapped in that mode of thinking and hope to break free at some point.
Eager to learn about what comes next in Celeste's story, back to the video :)
This is unbelievable! I have said the exact same thing about an angry god and a nice Jesus. I just had a revelation that the Mormon God is not real, and I am trying to establish a relationship with God and he is actively trying to rebuild my trust. This is Word for Word my life.
Love a margie hosted episode.
I was raised Catholic, but I can really relate to this HARD. My scrupulosity was on fire during my childhood, teenage, and a lot of my adult life. I could never be good enough. Can never confess enough etc.
My mission was a bad bad time and I knew it. I didn't say it but I knew the members of my ward thought I wasn't better. Not humble enought, to rebelius. And the said it I was never good enought. At the end it was the best. More than 10 years after my mission I realized that if I didn't leave, the church will kill me. Because nothing about me was right. I had to change everything. I had to lost me
2:54:18 oh my gosh! I was also the primary music leader during my final belief deconstruction. I like you just did not know how to leave and I was still thinking I could change the church from within. I wanted to start a movement and petition the church. (Still do actually) I went through a lot of thought acrobatics to keep teaching the songs! One was that I was just the same as a hired musician coming to do a musical number in a church, so I comment have to believe the stuff, I just had to teach it. So I stopped bearing testimony and strictly taught lyrics. After a while I couldn’t reconcile being complicit in the kids’ indoctrination and attachment to the church because music was a HUGE way that I connected to spirituality. When Covid closed church, I was so relieved but in May our ward started doing zoom primary every week so I was back on. I resorted to teaching songs about nature and the more neutral Mother’s Day and Father’s Day songs. I picked verses to teach instead of whole songs so I could hand pick what I taught so I didn’t betray myself and still do my calling. When it came time to do the primary program the next fall 2021. I said I could no longer teach sufficiently over zoom so they needed to call someone to teach the kids in person since they were all back in person and I had someone at home who was immunocompromised so I was still attending church virtually. It was whole set up to have me teach primary that just didn’t need to keep happening. They were sad to see me go but I was very very relieved.
I still do attend virtually even though I could go in person. I just know if would be hard for me not to be disruptive with correcting doctrinal and historical understanding.
Celeste Davis Instagram spoke to me and provided so much comfort when I was in the beginning and heart of my deconstruction. I'm soooooooo happy to hear her consult being interviewed ❤️❤️
I am struggling with my faith in church because so many things don't sound right. I connect with celeste so much. Ty for sharing
I resonate with this. I realized that there are so many things about the structure and culture and history of the church that just doesn’t make any sense to me at all. I’d just been told to repeat “the church is true, the Book of Mormon is true, Joseph smith was a prophet” over and over again until I believed it.
Something that is really sticking out to me since I left Mormons is that that they worship a very exclusionary god. My God excludes no one. Big difference.
This was a wonderful interview -- I was really moved listening to how Celeste's view of the world and God were slowly changed over time.
This is so insightful! I remember back in 2018 I was just released from the bishopric and I got called to be the gospel doctrine teacher and my second lesson I taught I told of a time when I was the elders quorum president and my wife wanted me to stay home one night to help her and I told her that I couldn’t because I need to serve the lord. I was telling the class that day that I chose to let my wife suffer because I had to serve and I was expressing my feelings that I didn’t believe that was what god wanted me to do but I did it anyway because I was so concerned with how people saw me and I was willing to put my wife on the “alter” to satisfy my own ego. I was so wrong in this way of thinking but needless to say I was released from that calling the next week. I see so many of these amazing stories and the suffering that people are going through and nothing is being done about it internally. My heart aches for so many people that are not being heard. I’m appreciative of the voice that you and your wife are giving to so many that feel all hope is lost and the devastation they are going through just in the thought of maybe leaving the church. 🙏🏻
I relate to Celeste so much! I am seeing God is such a new light now that I know the church isn't completely true. He is "Big Love" My favorite Mormon Stories interview.
I loved this. I’m a ‘nevermo’ but as someone who is deconstructing their fundamental evangelical faith it is so relatable
Excellent program, informative, enlightening. This guest is an inspiration , providing optimism in a very turbulent time that people like this will make the world a better place than the one we who proceeded them have dumped on them.
2:41:00 i read rob bell's "love wins" and it changed my life. i'm so glad his work is getting the recognition it deserves.
I went to Chile on my mission and those stories are real! We had ward lists that were tens of thousands of names long with only 50 attending members.
I have definitely been loving this episode, so relatable!
Yes!
Once I realized how differently each of us experiences god it finished any religious affiliation I'd ever had.
It was at a large Xian church in Grand Junction.
It was also after I'd left the Mormon church, by several years.
I walked out of this Xian church shaking my head trying to make room for this important realization.
Oh my word! I wish I could get my wife to listen to this episode! So excellent!
Wow. This is an amazing episode. Big God-that concept is a complete paradigm shift for me. My favourite Mormon Stories episode to date!
“Sometimes it is necessary
To reteach a thing its loveliness”
― Galway Kinnell
AMAZING episode!!! Loved loved loved listening to Celeste share her story. Can’t wait for part two!!
I was raised Catholic and am now non-religious with some secular Buddhist leanings. I've never been Mormon but really enjoy your videos and the community that has sprouted up around you. Thank you.
I had a very similar experience. I remember when God shifted from being a distant personage outside of myself that I could never quite reach to something that was right inside of me. Nobody had to tell me that. I just knew it. Now that I have heard so many other people describe the same thing, it's awesome.
I feel so connected to the multifaceted God she brought up where there is constant contradiction. Haven’t left the church just inactive and questioning but see so much of myself in the struggles Celeste had.
Best episode thus far! Thank you!!!
One of my favorite Popcasts. This interview is so interesting. I remember thinking the same kinds of things as a kid and I grew up in Utah!
Celeste!! It’s Angela (Mallory’s mom)-Sharing BIG LOVE with you, my Dear One! Funny…we love the same authors :). So proud of you!!! We continue this journey…❤❤❤. Ps. I love Mormon Stories 😊
Oh my gosh Angela!! Hi! Crazy! Mallory and I will have so much to talk about next time we connect 😂 PS Sorry we sent the missionaries to you guys 🥴
@@celeste.m.davis. Lol!!! Alllll part of our journeys ❤️🙏❤️
I related so much to this interview. Thank you so much!!
This lady is a B12 shot (or 3) in human form.😆
Great storyteller and so interesting.
This is one of the best episodes, Margi and John.✌️💜😊
“I was a good girl” … I totally understand this! I felt like I had to go to the bishop to confess that I have been playing with face cards, since one of the prophets had said that playing with those were “the appearance of evil,” meaning gambling. So much shame and spiritual abuse! Thank you for this podcast!
The part where she talks about the best thing women can become is the wife of a mission President, the wife of a general authority. What about being on the General Relief Society Board! Oooooooo! And eternally we get to be queens and priestesses to our husbands! What does that even mean??? Nobody knows
Big Love. "This is God."
Yes. Thank you.
Definitely excited for part 2!
I understand that box I could never be good enough. I tried . However I know what it feels like to have the spirit fall on you intensely.. that’s real. God loves us enough to allow us spiritual experiences. That’s not wrong.
Im from mckinney, so this was super relatable to me and my childhood, thank you for sharing your thoughts celeste!
My wife and I had a Done Day Sunday 12th September 2022. Feeling free from the LDS control, fear and abuse. BIG LOVE (God) is not exclusive.
2:26:00 I always doubt with this “plan of salvation “ it’s never made sense on my life! It was like just the best of the best are coming back to me again 😢 that feeling was hunting me ever!!! Till I discovered that Mormons don’t adore same Jesus as the rest of Christians!
PS : Mormon stores podcast are my favorite show on my days off. Thanks John!
😂😂 I find myself enjoying Mormon stories more than Netflix 😆😆😆
Love that she came to the realization that her husband's statements were coming from a place of care for the marginalized.
I’m a Christian (Methodist) and I wonder why God created us to be eternally damned. The only exception to eternal damnation is accepting Christ as your savior. That’s great for us Christians. But it’s not great for everyone else because it excludes so many people.
Why would God create some people when He knows they will spend eternity in hell?
I really struggle with this because it doesn’t seem loving and we’re told God is Love. So that just doesn’t make sense.
Mormans aren’t the only ones that are confused.
As for me…I’m not sure “big love, the spirit is everywhere” progressive Christianity is the answer.
Celeste is asking some of the same questions that Christians ask too.
Personally…I’m still seeking answers.
This guest is wonderful! Intelligent and totally engaging. I've learned some new ways to look at my own situation with religious indoctrination. Please have her on again. I have a nerd crush on her brain.
I’m excited for part 2❤️
Amazing, amazing, amazing. Thank you for sharing.
Also, the Unity Church is its own church. It was founded by a couple in the 1800’s, I believe, who espoused the beliefs of “law of attraction” or that you could heal your own body through the power of the mind.
Allen, TX here! Our neighborhood Morningside is nicked named Mormonside.
As someone from Iowa, I think some relevant context for this episode is that the time they spent in Iowa was after gay marriage was legalized in Iowa, but before it was legal nationally. Iowa City at the time was very proudly, staunchly, vocally pro gay marriage. This absolutely would've affected their experience and the conversations they had during their time in Iowa.
Celeste was great! She's also really funny. Can't wait for part 2.
Thank you for sharing your story, Celeste. I related to a lot of it.
Absolutely the best one yet ! Thank you frome a never mo!
Glad you enjoyed it
I left the church after 40 years. It has taken me 5 years to find my joy in the Lord.
She is entertaining and wise!
"What is this called? Rage. This is called rage." ❤️❤️❤️
I have attended the Unity Church for 40 years. It is very different from the Unitarian church. Unity was developed from Christian principles. It is a positive practical Christian church. It is a church about love and the teachings often come from a metaphysical application of the Bible.
What a wonderful interview. Resonated so much with what she said. Although I didn't try nearly as hard to change the church from within.
The Dehlins land another awesome interview
The analogy of the whipping; I've always struggled with the concept of needing a savior. Why would God require anyone to be whipped? Why would that be required? We would fire that principle!
I wish I had listened instead of preached 😭❤️
So relatable
2:51 I don’t know how many wards are in Allen TX but we had some friends a couple of decades ago who moved to Allen TX. I know it’s a long shot but, Celeste, do you by any chance know Colette Hoffman?
Love Mormon Stories 😊
celeste so wonderfully stated that she outsourced her consciousness to the church because her insides were scary and dangerous. i'm a never mormon and i outsourced it to my smother mother under the guise that i was stupid. self reflecting was dangerous because i was too stupid to do it right. what nonsense. complete insanity. i'm so angry about this. i can relate to mormon stories, i just replace church/god with my smother, and replace rituals and myths with my own family dysfunction.
I have to say I thought everyone who belonged to a different church than I did must have felt it was the true church. Why else would they stay in their church? When I wanted to have my long time best friend in my wedding party my dad said no way because she was not Catholic and would go to hell for not being Catholic. That was my aha moment where I knew I was right.. We remain good friends today 65yrs later..❤👭
And then there is my family. Single mom, 2 girls, we had neighbors kids over, kids played together, until neighbors realized we went to a Christian church. The parents refused to let their children play any more with my girls because we were not Mormon, and didnt think we had the values and morals they had! Really my girls were 5 and 6!!! Don't even get me started about 9th grade and seminary! Friends they had since elementary were no longer friends because we were not Mormon!! All of a sudden my girls were bullied and humiliated by these "good Mormon girls". Had i not been a follower of the real Jesus Christ i would hVe smacked the @#** out of these better than thou girls! Now i have a granddaughter starting 9th grade. Jesus take the wheel! This is life in Utah! 🙏🙏❤❤
Thanks!
Absolutely fantastic. Still deconstructing and adore her perspective!
a beautiful spiritual journey
After the 2:26:00 mark, when you are talking about the very few who are going to ‘make it’…..add to that this comment that I had heard from other Mormons; That if you were ‘born into the Covenant’, (born into Mormonism), it was because you were VERY GOOD and ‘valiant’ in your pre-existence. And if you never find Mormonism, it’s because you were not going to make it anyway!
Talk about judgemental!
I've given up trying to make sense of the LDS God. I have no doubt at all God exists but the God the church has been describing to me all my life is a mass of contradictions and frequently makes no sense at all to me. I'm really hoping the church is wrong about some things because I find them very unattractive. My purpose for a long time has been to figure out who God really is and why the heck he thought I should be born into this church because all I've done in it is make people really angry at me a lot. And all they've done is make me despair of the intelligence, logic, humanity, and morality of people. He must have known I would irritate the Mormons every single time I opened my mouth and that they would drive me crazy. What was he thinking? Not a clue. I do think that if you asked 100 people to define God, you'd get 100 totally different descriptions, regardless of religion or no religion.
Oh my God, that article you wrote on how to pray was given to me by an STL when I was left physically disabled by my mission!
I was praying if to go home or not from the mission and I just kept getting no answer 😅
When is pt 2 coming?!! Loved this episode!
It just dropped!
@@mormonstories You’re the best! Traveling back to Seattle from NYC today and I needed something awesome to listen to on the long flight.
I looked at Celeste's articles. They are GOOD.
Fun interview! Thanks for sharing.
When you said "I'm wrestling with this god" that's a very Jewish POV to arrive out, since "Yisrael" ("Israel") literally means "wrestles with God." Sitting with the difficult things and the uncertainties is the whole point.
Unity is a metaphysical Christianity founded by the Filmores. They are part of the New Thought Movement ( not New Age)