I stopped at 1:12 because that three shot, unsupported group is pretty impressive. It's hard not to flinch with slugs and the dude isn't that big either. Love the videos, guys. You seem to have the right recipe.
@Kenjamin Slutton Yeah no shit. Anyone can. But to lay 3 slugs on top of each other is pretty impressive. 12 gauge was my first gun at 11 years old, it took me until 16 years old and thousands of rounds to fully stop flinching.
As an LEO, I patrolled a county about half urban, half rural. I kept my 870 loaded with empty chamber and four 000 bucks in the tube and a shell holder on the stock with five 1 ounce slugs. The slugs were fairly accurate out to about 50 yards on that shotgun with its bead sight. I felt pretty confident with that shotgun/ammo combo. Also kept a box of dove loads in the car for putting down rabid animals like skunks and raccoons, which we had to do on a fair basis. One thing that is not covered in this video is the use of a 20 gauge instead of a 12 gauge for home defense. A 20 gauge slug or buckshot is deadly at close range, and the lighter recoil is more manageable. I have seen a lot of people on a range shooting 12 gauge slugs and buckshot, and it does kick a lot of people's ass when they shoot it. Both men and women.
I've consistently hit my rifle plates with a 20" maverick 88 and 1oz slugs with just a bead at 75 yards for years. I have no doubt on a torso-sized target it'll be plenty at 100 yards, and I can't forsee any civilian self defense shooting I might be involved in from my home extending further than a football field.
My range only allows shotguns if you shoot slugs. Have to setup target at 25, 50, 75 or 100 yards. A lot of guys shooting a lot of different shotgun’s out to 100 yards with great accuracy. It’s pretty impressive actually when you consider how devastating a slug is. At a 100 yards hitting a man size target is no problem. I’d say about half the shotguns being used are expensive, long barreled beauties. But the other half are just pump action 18 or 20” Mossberg, Remington, Winchester, etc. . Made me buy a nice Winchester Defender 18” 7 + 1 that I’ve been shooting slugs only out to the 100 yard target, consistently hitting 12x12 target, bead sight. Shooting rifle and pistol also. Usually 10 slugs and I’m done just trying to stay sharp. Not fun to shoot. I’m going to look into shooting the mini shells Anyone know if that’s possible?
yes,i agree,also,protect your house from a horde of rats,if you use a marble or peppercorn buckshoots,because all the projectille is spreading and,the rat hordes are so scared of me
If the food is birds, sure. There really isn't much that isn't being killed with 5.56mm or 7.62x39mm which is gonna offer a TON of pros over the shotgun...for no cons except it aint gonna drop ducks. Its lighter, its easier to shoot well, it outranges it, its a million times faster to reload, etc etc
@@joelodjick230 wrong I hate when yall ar15 fan boys come and try to shove your ar15 and try to tak the place of a shotgun and say 55.6 7.62x39 is the best all around weapon LOL get real! the ar15 is limited and you cant kill crap in the woods with it (big game) unless you get lucky with a head shot,no one hunts birds with it stop lien.and who cares if its lighter and holds more yall bring that same old argument and what TON of pros ar15 is not versatile in ANY Way WHATSOEVER shotgun is the most versatile gun one can get for any and all situations ar15 sucks for home defence ,the robber will get hit with 55.6 and still be able to get some rounds off and kill you or go thru the DRY WALL YALL TALK ABOUT SO MUCH AND HIT YOUR FAM .shotgun one shot he is out,i don't have time to use a AR15 AND TICKLE A ENEMY JUST TO GET SHOT OR MY FAMILY KILLED remember a ar15 was meant to wound not kill and I don't care what type of ammo they have now THEY ARE NOT AND NEVER WILL BE A MAN STOPPER OR THE BEST HOME DEFENCE OPTION so fly over to an ar FANBOY channel we are talking shotguns over here
When I was going through a police academy years ago in North Carolina there is a woman that insisted on calling them "snugs". Bless her heart she didn't last very long and dropped out.
The most fun I've had with my 870 has been shooting slugs out to 100 yards. Its fairly accurate, with most going into a 6" circle. I had a couple fliers, but I'm pretty sure that was me getting used to it. It has about 6" of drop from point of aim with the bead sight at that distance. It was fun to see my sons eyes get really wide when he saw the 3/4" slug nearly wipe out a full 1" square on the gridded targets we had.
I have actually used shotgun slugs while hunting deer and other animals and I can tell you that it is devastating compared to any rifle I have ever seen used on large game up to .45-70. I shot a large whitetail at 25 yards once and the slug passed through the deer, broke the offside shoulder, took out both lungs and the deer went 50 yards and dropped. I also shot a large 10 point buck with a shotgun slug at 35 yards or so, hit the deer a little higher than I wanted but it struck the deer's spine, and the slug deflected down into the deer's right lung area, I say area because the shrapnel that was the backbone and the slug turned the right lung into pieces of lung. That deer dropped on the spot, and this was a 16 gauge shotgun, not even a 12 gauge, and the slug was a simple off the shelf rifled slug, 1 oz of soft lead. The shotgun slug in the right gun, in the right situation is a devastating, period.
Typical off the shelf foster slugs don't actually penetrate very far. It will ruin the first deers day but there is no oomph on the other side. If you find the slug it will look like a lead doughnut or it will have actually broken into pieces. I don't think it's a bad option for home defense unless you miss, but then again everything is a bad option if you miss.
I am curious - would 12ga slug(s) be effective on really big bears ? Grizzly, Polar ? I am guessing hot load + ultra hard-cast slug might have sufficient penetration.
@@xzqzq Absolutely, A heavy Brenneke style slug should be adequate for any game in North America. Something like the Federal vita-shok TruBall deep penetrator is an example of a foster slug which would also work. It's probably not a good ideal to use a soft lead foster slug due to the shallow penetration.
Love this video series on shotgun for home defense. Chris does a great job presenting info in a clear, concise way. Look forward to many more, including: "Interior wall penetration is something we have to consider with any firearm or ammunition, and that's a topic for another day."
Paul Harrell does a lot of great videos about personal protection and shotguns, but one of my favourites was technically a demonstration against body armour. He shot a meat target wrapped in body armour. One set of body armour did not stop the slug. The better set of armour stopped the slug but the transfer of energy was so great it pulverised the target anyway.
@@Fister_of_Muppets slugs don't have as much recoil as 00 buck in my experience., not even close. I dunno what it is. Same power loads different recoil same shotty my little 590 Shockwave with a recoil reducing springed pistol grip
@@SkinnySkinch what slugs are you shooting theres a noticable difference when shouldering buck vs slugs, and a good slug should be traveling 200 fps faster then buckshot
Totally changes what I thought I knew about home defense rounds. My biggest concern was always having a spread of buckshot enter an area it wasn't intended to and harming someone. Also hadn't considered how a slug could do the same thing and then seeing how possible it is to be accurate with the right buckshot my entire outlook has changed. Thank you.
Very true. I own hundreds of rounds from buck, to steal, ball bearings, slugs, sabots. Fun to shoot but most of those rounds are impractical in my small apartment.
Thanks for the advice. I live on 5 acres, so I'm not too worried about slugs doing collateral damage. I practice with 00Buck and rifled slugs at various distances that are "realistic". The Hornady 00Buck is really good stuff. New subscriber. Thank you!
Slugs, when you absolutely, positively need to kill the intruder, your girlfriend in the next room, the paperboy, and Randy in the house down the block.
@Mr Sunshines bro why are you so triggered by a joke. Do you get upset when someone says that .22 short ratshot is the strongest round in the world and classified as a weapon of mass destruction?
Not a new vid, but classic Chris Baker. Detailed, informative, to-the-point, and *** no self-promotion. I'm slightly ashamed I haven't purchased from his website yet. I must make amends. Lucky Gunner lab tests are astonishing! They spent a LOT of time and effort - then present information openly. Kudos.
I spent 30 years in law enforcement and the average distance between invader and homeowner was about 10 feet. You can easily stop someone in their tracks with anything up to #8 shot. Keep in mind that over penetration can occur even in a shotgun so you should experiment with different shotgun shells to see what you're most comfortable shooting, plus the shotgun gauge...12/20/410.
I used to keep mine loaded with steel shot so it wouldn't destroy the house. At that distance, a face full of steel bb or even 2-3 shot is gonna get the job done just as well without the major collateral property damage.
Anyone know what happens if I shoot an intruder and my bullets overpenetrate and hits someone. Idk much about guns I just want to know about the legal process
@@m1951-j2u If you kill them pretty sure it's manslaughter hence the phrase. "When you pull that trigger it better be the last resort because you're accepting all consequences. " I have a friend who's in law school. When I go home I kinda want to know too. I'll ask him.
@@SuperCortes10 I hate to show my age. I remember when I had to pay $1.00 a round for .50 bmg Back then I thought that was a rip-off. Other than the fact some people will pay those crazy prices there is no reason for ammo to be as high as it has become.
Number one buck is your best overall shot size for most situations. After you fire your first shotgun indoors during a home defense scenario [without hearing protection], then you'll have more important things to consider such as vision, hearing and overall situational awareness. I discuss these things in greater detail on Mrgunsngear video titled "Setting Up A Home Defense AK-47 or AK-74: Gear & Ammo Advice" if you are curious. In summary: Home Defense = Suppressor. Keep up the good work my friends.
00 is much more proven in confrontations against humans. Is there a downside to using it? I wouldn't worry too much about the noise. The whole auditory exclusion factor is definitely real. I ended up shooting 7 .45s during a shooting and never *heard* the shots. I did hear the suspect's .380 when he opened fire but there was no noticeable hearing loss. No issues controlling the other suspect or radio functions. Other colleges who I know have been involved in shootings report the same thing. I've never been hunting but it's common the hear the hunter say they never hear their shot.
Thank you for acknowledging the over-penetration issue. This is why I prefer a shotgun over a carbine for home defense. A co-worker of mine is convinced that frangible rounds in a rifle means that the rounds will slice straight through an intruder even if they're wearing body armor, yet will somehow magically tumble and disintegrate the second they touch dry-wall.
Typical 556 rounds will be less deadly after penetration of obstacles such as dry wall in a house than a normal 00 buck shot. Any gun will overpenetrate a bit, but the low mass of a 556 bullet means it loses velocity very quickly after hitting something, unlike conventional buckshot or even pistol rounds. That said, they are still the best for going through body armor. It's not magic, it's just counter intuitive. Look it up if you don't believe me.
That might be true with .223 Glaser safety slug. They'll punch soft armor and break up in drywall, but they don't penetrate very far in ballistics gel. That said most foster slugs probably won't over penetrate a bad guy if you hit them. If you miss and hit drywall its going to keep going for a little while.
Drywall won't stop any round. The only thing that will stop rifle, pistol, or shotgun rounds in concrete or brick. Rifles and pistols are no more dangerous than a shotgun when concerned about penetration through wood or drywall.
Well your co-worker is correct. the 5.56 round is a low mass but very high velocity projectile. As soon as it hit something it starts to lose its capabilities quickly (tumble or fragment). Using something like a soft point or even varmint ammo speed this effect up. So yes a 5.56 will penetrate body armor but will also go through less walls than a pistol round, or shotgun slug.
Excellent video as usual. However, using slugs for home defense does give you one possible advantage over buckshot. If the home invader is wearing body armor (not a rare occurrence these days) then a slug is more likely to break his ribs than buckshot. In my shotgun, the first round is buckshot. After that, it's all slugs. If he still wants to attack after receiving one round of buckshot, the slugs will hopefully knock him down, and keep him down.
😂this post made me 😂for some reason but it’s so realistic I could see this playing out in real time hopefully by the first one they’d find a quick exit
What this channel lacks in volume of content, it definitely makes up for it in quality. I wasn't aware of these flight-controlled buckshot rounds. I wonder if CBC makes anything similar to that here in Brazil...
I literally teraly had no idea Hornady made that thank you that sound perfect. I have a chiapa triple threat which really gives me great options for setting up my choke and shot for what I'm gonna na shoot but I usually reserve the top barrel for slug and my adapters for the best accuracy. So that hornady spread looks perfect for that barrel.
Flightcontrol wads are really amazing. If you reload like I do you can also load buffer in with the pellets. This helps stop deformation as they're traveling down the barrel to produce tighter patterns with (importantly in relation to the video) less fliers.
A little late to the discussion, but I personally keep an 870 loaded with #4 buckshot. I have a small home (1,000 square feet) and live on a budget. I replaced my glass window panes with plexiglass (had a lot of cracked windows when I got the place) and beefed up my two entry doors with stronger locks. I've identified line of fire areas. I feel that trying to keep the bad guys out is just as important as putting them down. The hallway is a perfect "fatal funnel" especially with a few loads of buckshot. I feel it's best for my situation, your mileage may vary.
Ive seen 200 yd hits with slugs out of an 18" barrel open open choke. Did not connect in the first round but did on the 2nd and 3rd. Slugs can reach but a rifle is always better at 75yds +
Another great and informative video. I always learn to think of weapons use in self-defense scenarios in different ways after watching your productions. Please keep'em coming.
the hornady home defense is something i didn't know about. i do have great respect for hornady, though, so i'll check that out for my new moßberg shockwave.
Slugs can be very nice outside the home for defense. Louis Awerbuck carried Brennekes exclusively in his shotguns, didn't use buckshot. Hard to argue with a .73 caliber 1 oz piece of lead traveling twice as fast as a .45 ACP ball load. I'd rather take a hit from a .223 carbine than any 12 gauge slug, probably even a hit from a .308 rifle.
The Brenneke 2 3/4 Special Forces load has a hardened lead slug with an hourglass shape if I recall correctly, and it weighs 1 1/4 oz. I believe the Alaska State Police are issued that round for up close and angry encounters with their large bears and moose. Haven't heard of any failure to stop. It is, however, brutal on both ends.
When I was a deputy, one of our officers had a department issued 12ga Remington 870 14" barrel modified choke with rifle sights that would consistently group the Federal LE reduced recoil 00 buck into a group of 6" or less at 40 yards (indoor range). I've seen rifles that couldn't do that well. Outstanding firearm and ammo.
I personally prefer to keep no4 2 3/4" birdshot in my home defense shotgun. My max range in my house is only 15 feet and my shotgun at that range has about a 2.5" pattern.
Very impressive. I found your exposition to be complete with one exception. Consider practiced use of an 18 1/4 IN barrel, 12 GA, pump shotgun. It has a pistol grip for ease of use in close quarters and is loaded with 00 Buck. Reconsidering "practiced use" to mean regular range time, what is not to like? I've added a quick on/off green laser to the mix. A quick green confirmation of point ensures first-time accuracy without concerns over the intruder firing down the laser path. Your opinion(s)?
@ im 60 years old, but i remember a time when i was 17. i had some kinda old single shot 12, and a handful of slugs an old farmer gave me. i didnt wanna shoot into a tree but what i did find was an old creosole railroad tie and stand it up. i hit somewhere near the top and i kid you not it went clean through and left a crack the entire length of it. it nearly split it in half. i dont remember exactly what kinda slug it was but i do remember it was 2 3/4. if a standard length slug could do that a 3 or 3 1/2 inch mag slug would be way way way overkill on a person lol
Years ago I purchased a 12 gauge Remington 870 pump shotgun. I used it once in a while to hunt deer in the brush. My customized 30-06. was too long for that type of hunting. While familiarizing myself with my new shotgun my brother in law suggested that I use the 00 odd buck with a slug back up. It worked well. As we had some wild piggys running around the voods at the time. I love that shotgun!!
In Germany, we mostly have brick walls inside of a building, so we could use slugs, but I personally still would use buckshot or even birdshot, because of the short disatance. At a maximum of maxbe 6 tp 8 yards, the pattern of shot would be better than a single slug.
This is the reason why i think the KSG12 is my ideal shotgun because i can load 2 kinds of shells and swap to them with a flip of a switch. Its also bullpup which good for indoor close range.
Absolutely agree. I'd love to see a discussion on the merits of 12ga buckshot versus 40-ish gr 5.56. I think I've been swayed to think that lightweight thin jacketed 5.56 rounds from a lightweight semi auto are best for home defense.
Believe it or not, 00 Buck actually has more overpenetation than a .223 round. Ballistically, rifles are by and far the superior choice however for low income households a shotgun is probably the most viable option. (That's what they did back in the day, bought a shotgun and sawed it off into an SBS because it was the best value for your dollar. NFA changed that though, which I could rant about for ages but I'll save that for another time.)
Both will go through interior walls. Some 5.56 rounds might only go through a couple of walls, but one is really all it takes to be a problem. Identifying safe lanes of fire in the home is generally a better strategy than trying to use ammo selection to avoid interior wall penetration. Not sure what Jonathan means by "ballistically superior", but at close range, 00 buckshot is far more effective than 5.56 or any other intermediate rifle cartridge.
As far as stopping power goes (and I hate that term), intermediate caliber rifles perform the best. I believe the FBI says the two most effective are 6.8 SPC and .300 BLK. However ballistics is a piece of the puzzle, not the whole picture. As you covered in your article about your gel shots of 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP ballistics isn't an exact science but an educated guess as to what will happen. Combined with the modularity of most intermediate caliber rifles such as the AR-15 and AK-47, people who have the money are probably better off buying a semi-auto rifle over a shotgun. Everybody is different however, so there really isn't a definitive answer to what the best gun is (it's whichever one you shoot the best). Really, it's up to you personally to determine which is best for you. Find something you're comfortable on and reliably sends lead downrange, train with it extensively. TL;DR Skills over stuff, your capacity to neutralize a threat shouldn't be determined by your gear but by your training and mindset.
All minutia and technical mumbo jumbo aside, shotgun is like being shot 9ish times at once with pistol caliber rounds, rifle is like being shot once with well... a rifle. Shotgun is still nasty and will certainly get the job done, but rifle does it better. Unless you're super low income and have IMMEDIATE need for a long gun, you're probably better off saving up for a $450+ semi auto rifle. Better ballistics, more modular, more aftermarket options.
gabriel brack No worries. Back on topic: there's video of a guy shooting at a cop with a Judge loaded with birdshot. Might as well have been shooting a blank gun.
Hello I'm also former law enforcement was a police officer out here in New York and while this is very good information and great video on home defense What I'm actually looking for is to better improve my outside defense such as in the event of a natural disaster, possible Civil War and God forbid a nuclear war- I was looking at what you take out when you are on duty outside and wondering if you had any tips or maybe we can do a video on what would be needed to survive a situation where you needed to get your family food and to be outside of the house and a much larger environment God forbid if there is a civil war a nuclear war something along those type of scenarios
So far there's only been one brand of slugs I've consistently seen not over penetrate through targets within 30 feet, whether it's a gel block with layers of hard fabric or a meat target with hard fabric; and not penetrate through hard barriers like single layer brick veneer walls or hollow cinder block - the Winchester Super X hollow point slug. I don't know if it's the velocity, or the softness of the lead hollow point, or both, but these things seem to consistently fragment in impact, and the largest piece of mushroomed out lead seems to consistently go no further than 14-16 inches on gel, or not exit the rear ribs of meat targets. On the hard barriers tests, the slug just shattered to pieces against a single layer of brick and barely scratched it. Against hollow cinder block, it cracked one side, but couldn't make it through. I wish people would test other similar velocity hollow point slugs like Federal Power Shok similar to this, but until then, if I HAD to choose/use a slug for interior and exterior home defense, it would be the Winchester Super X.
A couple of corrections. 3" 12-ga. Magnum 00 buck has 15 pellets. The range of slugs are far greater than 300 feet. I hunt with a shot gun and I have NO problems with slugs at 200+ yards but I use 3" 12-ga. Magnum slugs
The sound of a shotgun racking one into the chamber is a universal sound that strikes fear into the hearts and minds of all. In the event that you do discharge a round inside a dwelling, the last thing a good or bad guy is going to be thinking is sticking around to see if you're going to give chase or take a hostage. IF I lived is a new construction home, there's no way I'd use a slug much less 00 buck for fear of over penetration. A older masonry home, maybe, but not in a frame home. I had someone that I worked with that was shot with #6 shot at a distance of 25-30 feet. He saw the robber, started turning to run, when he was struct on the right side of his back and right arm. It looked like hamburger. Shooting someone with 00 buck at close range (the same 25-30 foot distance) is going through them unless you hit large bones. IMO, for home defense (inside the house), there is no need for a slug in a shotgun.
Shotguns are essentially meat grinders. A single buckshot can make someone lose an arm, leg, or head or open their rib cages, backs up. A shotgun is one of the nastiest guns to get shot with. Survival rate are low too.
my testing in this rural area showed me that is 00 buck is the best, there are bear, wolves , two legged , I do keep slugs near, but the side saddle is loaded with 00 buck
2-3/4 rifled hollow point at 100 yards from an 18" barrel. Hit a hog in the neck and he flat out helicopter spun in a circle straight to the ground. 3" sabots aren't needed.
I load up a pair of 3in Magnum 1oz Hardcast Slugs after 3 3in (std pressure) "Large Property"Scarcely-Populated & Heavily Wooded Reasoning for my HD 12ga. On the SideSaddle, it goes two more 3in Magnum Slugs & 4 more 3in Buckshot shells carring a Baker's Dozen worth of 00. Good video for those on the Fence when
I just have all doors and windows wired with explosives and a improvised claymore cover the hallway. I carry the remote detonator at all times, I decided for reliability not to use an app on my phone. It ties in nicely with my motion sensor alarm system, as soon as I get a warning about a possible intruder I can check (usually with the CCT) and decide whether to detonate or not. Which makes it irrelevant what hardware the bag guys are carrying… you turn up with your shotgun and you're facing three guys with semi autos, maybe even carbines and you can be outshot.
I would hesitate using home modified ammunition that no factory makes as a self defense load. Using modified ammunition might show intent to a nefarious or ignorant lawyer/judge. Other than quality control and legality it does seem like a decent home defense load though. I'll stick with 9mm, soft point .223 and buck shot myself. EDIT: If anyone know of any cases for or against it I would love to hear about em.
thirdcoastboy I don't know man, I think it would be quite easy to cite waxers as a hunting purpose round. Plus I'm not sure that the wax would be possible to show after the round has hit the target, due to the kinetic energy which would evaporate the wax. Good thinking though, better safe than sorry.
Excellent overview... Just recently shot a few PDX1 slugs in a Defensive Shotgun course, but I'm perfectly content with standard military spec 00 9 pellet ammo.
Shotguns loaded with solid shots were carried in Vietnam, although banned by the Geneva Convention. Using one against a human target is madness. It will tear the body apart.
In that case you don't shoot at the enemy soldier, shoot at his: rifle; canteen, ammo/pistol pouch, helmet; belt buckle; ... get the picture..... that's what our DS's told us about shooting .50 cal, white phosphorus, etc... at troops. There's away around most things....
I remember the Thunder Ranch guy saying; Pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people, and shotguns remove body parts from people (I may be paraphrasing - I'm old!)
Good presentation. The knock down power of a 20 gauge slug for one instance; the Hornady 250 grain Sabot slug at the advertised velocity of 1800 fps is approximately 1907 ft. lbs. The 300 grain 12 gauge is 2665 ft. lbs. That's a lot of damn power whatever your preference is and something that has to be given its proper respect.
With all my Mossberg 500's I settled on heavy field loads of #4 shot 1 1/4 oz.. at feet not yards will ruin any bad guys work day. Especially in an urban environment don't want to bring any neighbors into an unwanted fray. Backed up with one of the single action army 45's
@Dogman tossed my salad I haven't seen buckshot at my Walmart in forever. I think the biggest shot you can get in maybe #4. Five round for $8 is horrible. You can tell most people are after defense minded rounds.
@@robertboreman7672 Yup, and I am frustrated, because I just had a chance to get some for a good price and waited too long. I have slugs, but I wanted to try these ones out. Fucking ammo hoarders just buying 500 rounds at a time. If you need 500 slugs, you probably won't be living long, anyway. All I wanted was 20. I am good on buck shot, and other shot. I ordered those in the past, plus a waterfowl load. They canceled my order two days later.
What about a wax birdshot slug. It hits like a slug and comes out the other side as birdshot getting stopped by the wall. Sounds to me like the perfect home defense round.
what about something like a .410...I use a saiga shotgun chambered in .410 shooting buck shot with a 15 round magazine, recoil is less, and the risk of over penetration is slightly lessened but still effective man stopper. thoughts?
Lucky Gunner Ammo it would be interesting if you would do a video on it and see what test results you get like you have with 12 gauge I think .410 is very underrated but that's just me, make a video :)
You're not really giving up any velocity or pellet size, only pellet count by going down to a .410 (typically 3 pellets of 000 buck vs 8-9 of 00). But having 15 rounds and potentially quicker follow up shots, could make up for that I guess. As long as it's 100% reliable, I wouldn't feel under gunned with it.
OceanKing6725 with a .410 you actually do lose a decent amount of velocity look at a few chronograph comparisons, at least from what I've seen. and yes the extra capacity from the saiga platform and the lighter recoil I feel makes it the perfect home defense gun at least for me. I'd really like to see some more tests and comparisons
Guess it depends what specific loads you're comparing but something like Winchester Super X in moving pretty quick even in .410, about the same as 12 gauge and it's 000 instead of 00. Now those .410 loads design for revolvers are another story.
I agree with the 00 buck. I purchased the Law Enforcement 12 gauge shells that are not as hot as the hunting ones. They are supposed to allow you to keep tracking your target with the less recoil. That is what I am using and have given the slugs and 00 buck to both my father and father in-law for their shotguns for home use.
If you live in the suburbs and one of those "artillery rounds "hits one of your neighbors even by accident you are screwed. BB. rounds or number#4 turkey loads are more than enough stop the bandicoots.
@@atumre4705 if they only made active ear pro that you can put on in 2 seconds and cancels loud noises as well as amplifies quiet ones, that you can buy for less than 100 bucks. OH WAIT! Good luck with your situational awareness after you fire your first shot (like a police officer telling you to drop your weapon).
Super glad to be revisiting these videos, Chris! It's like a guide book sitting on your bookshelf. - You're informative, and you can answer those repetitive, pesky questions that normal people are asking. This is relevant regardless of gauge. I'm stuck in that 20ga camp. (I've already watched that video) --> super glad that you made this one, too.
![Stuff You Should Know About Buckshot [Part 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3haq5BFh7qs/mqdefault.jpg)
![Stuff You Should Know About Buckshot [Part 1]](/img/tr.png)
I stopped at 1:12 because that three shot, unsupported group is pretty impressive. It's hard not to flinch with slugs and the dude isn't that big either. Love the videos, guys. You seem to have the right recipe.
Sawtooth Curruthers the pdx is a slug with three 00 balls behind it. Hence the grouping. I use them in my home defense shotgun.
@Kenjamin Slutton Yeah no shit. Anyone can. But to lay 3 slugs on top of each other is pretty impressive. 12 gauge was my first gun at 11 years old, it took me until 16 years old and thousands of rounds to fully stop flinching.
@Kenjamin Slutton huh?
Semi autos help
Not really if you reload. With factory shoulder breakers yes that's good.
As an LEO, I patrolled a county about half urban, half rural. I kept my 870 loaded with empty chamber and four 000 bucks in the tube and a shell holder on the stock with five 1 ounce slugs. The slugs were fairly accurate out to about 50 yards on that shotgun with its bead sight. I felt pretty confident with that shotgun/ammo combo. Also kept a box of dove loads in the car for putting down rabid animals like skunks and raccoons, which we had to do on a fair basis.
One thing that is not covered in this video is the use of a 20 gauge instead of a 12 gauge for home defense. A 20 gauge slug or buckshot is deadly at close range, and the lighter recoil is more manageable. I have seen a lot of people on a range shooting 12 gauge slugs and buckshot, and it does kick a lot of people's ass when they shoot it. Both men and women.
Cruiser ready baby :P
I've consistently hit my rifle plates with a 20" maverick 88 and 1oz slugs with just a bead at 75 yards for years. I have no doubt on a torso-sized target it'll be plenty at 100 yards, and I can't forsee any civilian self defense shooting I might be involved in from my home extending further than a football field.
My range only allows shotguns if you shoot slugs. Have to setup target at 25, 50, 75 or 100 yards. A lot of guys shooting a lot of different shotgun’s out to 100 yards with great accuracy. It’s pretty impressive actually when you consider how devastating a slug is. At a 100 yards hitting a man size target is no problem. I’d say about half the shotguns being used are expensive, long barreled beauties. But the other half are just pump action 18 or 20” Mossberg, Remington, Winchester, etc. . Made me buy a nice Winchester Defender 18” 7 + 1 that I’ve been shooting slugs only out to the 100 yard target, consistently hitting 12x12 target, bead sight. Shooting rifle and pistol also. Usually 10 slugs and I’m done just trying to stay sharp. Not fun to shoot. I’m going to look into shooting the mini shells Anyone know if that’s possible?
Shotgun Slugs - Pissing off your neighbors since 1894
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@@ghost.rdr2 lol
*Picking* off your neighbors.
Dear UA-camrs, take note of how informative and straight to the point this video is. Awesome job! Definitely subscribed etc.
Yes, he didn't make a five minute speech before going into the subject of the video.
When the video ended, I was like "Huh... there's no fluff..."
Agree fully and subbed for the same reason.
shotgun is the best all around weapon you can put food on the table & protect your family.
yes,i agree,also,protect your house from a horde of rats,if you use a marble or peppercorn buckshoots,because all the projectille is spreading and,the rat hordes are so scared of me
If the food is birds, sure.
There really isn't much that isn't being killed with 5.56mm or 7.62x39mm which is gonna offer a TON of pros over the shotgun...for no cons except it aint gonna drop ducks.
Its lighter, its easier to shoot well, it outranges it, its a million times faster to reload, etc etc
@@joelodjick230 wrong I hate when yall ar15 fan boys come and try to shove your ar15 and try to tak the place of a shotgun and say 55.6 7.62x39 is the best all around weapon LOL get real! the ar15 is limited and you cant kill crap in the woods with it (big game) unless you get lucky with a head shot,no one hunts birds with it stop lien.and who cares if its lighter and holds more yall bring that same old argument and what TON of pros ar15 is not versatile in ANY Way WHATSOEVER shotgun is the most versatile gun one can get for any and all situations ar15 sucks for home defence ,the robber will get hit with 55.6 and still be able to get some rounds off and kill you or go thru the DRY WALL YALL TALK ABOUT SO MUCH AND HIT YOUR FAM .shotgun one shot he is out,i don't have time to use a AR15 AND TICKLE A ENEMY JUST TO GET SHOT OR MY FAMILY KILLED remember a ar15 was meant to wound not kill and I don't care what type of ammo they have now THEY ARE NOT AND NEVER WILL BE A MAN STOPPER OR THE BEST HOME DEFENCE OPTION so fly over to an ar FANBOY channel we are talking shotguns over here
@@aboutmyfathersbusiness6907
LOL
Lol any gun can do that
When I was going through a police academy years ago in North Carolina there is a woman that insisted on calling them "snugs". Bless her heart she didn't last very long and dropped out.
Snugs! I like it 👌.
home invader: I had body armor
slugs: I am still going to f*** you up
A blunderbuss filled with legos
That’s just in humane lol
Thumbtacks
Thank you for the good laugh!
LEGO not LEGOS jk lol
@@5yearsago5yearsago29 he's talking about more than one of them
The most fun I've had with my 870 has been shooting slugs out to 100 yards. Its fairly accurate, with most going into a 6" circle. I had a couple fliers, but I'm pretty sure that was me getting used to it. It has about 6" of drop from point of aim with the bead sight at that distance. It was fun to see my sons eyes get really wide when he saw the 3/4" slug nearly wipe out a full 1" square on the gridded targets we had.
I have actually used shotgun slugs while hunting deer and other animals and I can tell you that it is devastating compared to any rifle I have ever seen used on large game up to .45-70. I shot a large whitetail at 25 yards once and the slug passed through the deer, broke the offside shoulder, took out both lungs and the deer went 50 yards and dropped. I also shot a large 10 point buck with a shotgun slug at 35 yards or so, hit the deer a little higher than I wanted but it struck the deer's spine, and the slug deflected down into the deer's right lung area, I say area because the shrapnel that was the backbone and the slug turned the right lung into pieces of lung. That deer dropped on the spot, and this was a 16 gauge shotgun, not even a 12 gauge, and the slug was a simple off the shelf rifled slug, 1 oz of soft lead. The shotgun slug in the right gun, in the right situation is a devastating, period.
Typical off the shelf foster slugs don't actually penetrate very far. It will ruin the first deers day but there is no oomph on the other side. If you find the slug it will look like a lead doughnut or it will have actually broken into pieces. I don't think it's a bad option for home defense unless you miss, but then again everything is a bad option if you miss.
I am curious - would 12ga slug(s) be effective on really big bears ? Grizzly, Polar ? I am guessing hot load + ultra hard-cast slug might have sufficient penetration.
@@xzqzq Absolutely, A heavy Brenneke style slug should be adequate for any game in North America. Something like the Federal vita-shok TruBall deep penetrator is an example of a foster slug which would also work. It's probably not a good ideal to use a soft lead foster slug due to the shallow penetration.
The effects on human tissue might be comparable to a minnie bullet on steroids
I hope you hunt for food and not sport like some insecure assholes do. Animals are people too. Why should they suffer if they don't have to?
Love this video series on shotgun for home defense. Chris does a great job presenting info in a clear, concise way. Look forward to many more, including: "Interior wall penetration is something we have to consider with any firearm or ammunition, and that's a topic for another day."
Paul Harrell does a lot of great videos about personal protection and shotguns, but one of my favourites was technically a demonstration against body armour. He shot a meat target wrapped in body armour. One set of body armour did not stop the slug. The better set of armour stopped the slug but the transfer of energy was so great it pulverised the target anyway.
YOU be the judge.
The shattered ribs would puncture the lungs
The shotgun is the perfect survival weapon.
And you can still get 100 rounds at Walmart for $22.00 or 25 rounds of BB for around $12.00
@@timothyprice9064 how much cost the 25 rounds box ammo of the shotgun?
@@gabirivera1348, I got some 2 3/4 BB for about $12.00 for 25rds
@@gabirivera1348 Depends on what you're looking for.
@@gabirivera1348 you can get 100 rounds of #7 for $22.00
As Hickock 45 says: "a shotgun loaded with slugs is a form of artillery, but don't tell the gun grabbers that!"
Lol. Funny.
I would love to see a gun-grabber shoot my 500 with a 1600 fps slug in it.
ptschafer yea i was shooting 12ga slugs 1600fps the other day, my shoulder is tenderized
@@Fister_of_Muppets slugs don't have as much recoil as 00 buck in my experience., not even close. I dunno what it is. Same power loads different recoil same shotty my little 590 Shockwave with a recoil reducing springed pistol grip
@@SkinnySkinch what slugs are you shooting theres a noticable difference when shouldering buck vs slugs, and a good slug should be traveling 200 fps faster then buckshot
Totally changes what I thought I knew about home defense rounds. My biggest concern was always having a spread of buckshot enter an area it wasn't intended to and harming someone. Also hadn't considered how a slug could do the same thing and then seeing how possible it is to be accurate with the right buckshot my entire outlook has changed. Thank you.
Wow, you resolved my main concern about a shotgun as a primary home defense weapon when you highlighted the tight group ammo.
Sure slugs have a place in the context of home defence, if you live in an area where bears have joined the burglary business.
LMAO hahahaha
Hahaha funny
Serjo777 great 👍🏼 point. So which should I use? Rifle , pistol or shotgun?
Very true. I own hundreds of rounds from buck, to steal, ball bearings, slugs, sabots. Fun to shoot but most of those rounds are impractical in my small apartment.
Wtf happened to this comment? It had like 8 thumbs up the last time I saw it xD
EDIT: Which wasn't too long ago, hence the surprise on my part.
Thanks for the advice. I live on 5 acres, so I'm not too worried about slugs doing collateral damage. I practice with 00Buck and rifled slugs at various distances that are "realistic". The Hornady 00Buck is really good stuff. New subscriber. Thank you!
Slugs, when you absolutely, positively need to kill the intruder, your girlfriend in the next room, the paperboy, and Randy in the house down the block.
Mike J 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅 Dam! Mike! 😆😆😆😆😆😆
@Mr Sunshines what? All you have said is nonsense, none of it makes sense
@Mr Sunshines bro why are you so triggered by a joke. Do you get upset when someone says that .22 short ratshot is the strongest round in the world and classified as a weapon of mass destruction?
Mr Sunshines this little boy is so triggered
@Mr Sunshines imagine crying about a comment made a year ago, get fucked
Not a new vid, but classic Chris Baker. Detailed, informative, to-the-point, and *** no self-promotion. I'm slightly ashamed I haven't purchased from his website yet. I must make amends.
Lucky Gunner lab tests are astonishing! They spent a LOT of time and effort - then present information openly. Kudos.
I spent 30 years in law enforcement and the average distance between invader and homeowner was about 10 feet.
You can easily stop someone in their tracks with anything up to #8 shot. Keep in mind that over penetration can occur even in a shotgun so you should experiment with different shotgun shells to see what you're most comfortable shooting, plus the shotgun gauge...12/20/410.
I used to keep mine loaded with steel shot so it wouldn't destroy the house. At that distance, a face full of steel bb or even 2-3 shot is gonna get the job done just as well without the major collateral property damage.
380 or 20 gauge buckshot is what I have to work with. I think both will do fine. My rabbit hunting shotgun when racked is just as scary as any other.
Anyone know what happens if I shoot an intruder and my bullets overpenetrate and hits someone. Idk much about guns I just want to know about the legal process
@@m1951-j2u If you kill them pretty sure it's manslaughter hence the phrase.
"When you pull that trigger it better be the last resort because you're accepting all consequences. "
I have a friend who's in law school. When I go home I kinda want to know too. I'll ask him.
Thank you. I was asking because Im planning on owning a SKS and 7.62*39 rounds penetrate alot more than buckshot
How do we make everyone buy these ancient lead rifled slugs?
Just print "tactical" on them!
Or start selling them in the 100 round boxes for $22.00
@@timothyprice9064 10 rounds for $20 black ace tactical slugs
@@SuperCortes10 I hate to show my age. I remember when I had to pay $1.00 a round for .50 bmg Back then I thought that was a rip-off. Other than the fact some people will pay those crazy prices there is no reason for ammo to be as high as it has become.
@@timothyprice9064 Wow that’s a steal now 50’s going for $20 or more a round
@@SuperCortes10 In January right outside Fort Bragg NC they were $6.00 per round. Now I know why one of the gunshop owners put his .50bmg up for sale.
Number one buck is your best overall shot size for most situations.
After you fire your first shotgun indoors during a home defense scenario [without hearing protection], then you'll have more important things to consider such as vision, hearing and overall situational awareness. I discuss these things in greater detail on Mrgunsngear video titled "Setting Up A Home Defense AK-47 or AK-74: Gear & Ammo Advice" if you are curious. In summary:
Home Defense = Suppressor.
Keep up the good work my friends.
00 is much more proven in confrontations against humans. Is there a downside to using it? I wouldn't worry too much about the noise. The whole auditory exclusion factor is definitely real. I ended up shooting 7 .45s during a shooting and never *heard* the shots. I did hear the suspect's .380 when he opened fire but there was no noticeable hearing loss. No issues controlling the other suspect or radio functions. Other colleges who I know have been involved in shootings report the same thing. I've never been hunting but it's common the hear the hunter say they never hear their shot.
auditory exclusion does not prevent hearing damage.
True.
Why would vision go? When I hit the range my vision never goes, am I missing something?
keep a pair of electronic earpro muffs next to your home defense weapon.
Yay!! More shotgun stuff
Thank you for acknowledging the over-penetration issue. This is why I prefer a shotgun over a carbine for home defense. A co-worker of mine is convinced that frangible rounds in a rifle means that the rounds will slice straight through an intruder even if they're wearing body armor, yet will somehow magically tumble and disintegrate the second they touch dry-wall.
Typical 556 rounds will be less deadly after penetration of obstacles such as dry wall in a house than a normal 00 buck shot. Any gun will overpenetrate a bit, but the low mass of a 556 bullet means it loses velocity very quickly after hitting something, unlike conventional buckshot or even pistol rounds. That said, they are still the best for going through body armor. It's not magic, it's just counter intuitive. Look it up if you don't believe me.
Iraqveteran88 does a pretty good piece on this where they set up drywall and the whole deal. 9mm actually penetrates more/farther.
That might be true with .223 Glaser safety slug. They'll punch soft armor and break up in drywall, but they don't penetrate very far in ballistics gel. That said most foster slugs probably won't over penetrate a bad guy if you hit them. If you miss and hit drywall its going to keep going for a little while.
Drywall won't stop any round.
The only thing that will stop rifle, pistol, or shotgun rounds in concrete or brick.
Rifles and pistols are no more dangerous than a shotgun when concerned about penetration through wood or drywall.
Well your co-worker is correct. the 5.56 round is a low mass but very high velocity projectile. As soon as it hit something it starts to lose its capabilities quickly (tumble or fragment). Using something like a soft point or even varmint ammo speed this effect up. So yes a 5.56 will penetrate body armor but will also go through less walls than a pistol round, or shotgun slug.
Excellent video as usual. However, using slugs for home defense does give you one possible advantage over buckshot. If the home invader is wearing body armor (not a rare occurrence these days) then a slug is more likely to break his ribs than buckshot. In my shotgun, the first round is buckshot. After that, it's all slugs. If he still wants to attack after receiving one round of buckshot, the slugs will hopefully knock him down, and keep him down.
Same here, first 00 buck followed with slugs.
If it's a rifled shotgun with sabot slugs, it's likely to penetrate body armor.
😂this post made me 😂for some reason but it’s so realistic I could see this playing out in real time hopefully by the first one they’d find a quick exit
What this channel lacks in volume of content, it definitely makes up for it in quality. I wasn't aware of these flight-controlled buckshot rounds. I wonder if CBC makes anything similar to that here in Brazil...
I literally teraly had no idea Hornady made that thank you that sound perfect. I have a chiapa triple threat which really gives me great options for setting up my choke and shot for what I'm gonna na shoot but I usually reserve the top barrel for slug and my adapters for the best accuracy. So that hornady spread looks perfect for that barrel.
Flightcontrol wads are really amazing. If you reload like I do you can also load buffer in with the pellets. This helps stop deformation as they're traveling down the barrel to produce tighter patterns with (importantly in relation to the video) less fliers.
Where can you get flight control wads for reloading? Is there a substitute wad for reloading that works as good?
I fully agree. My one caveat would be to consider #4 buck shot over 00 buck shot. There are lots of videos on why, but simply put 21>9.
Gary Gutierrez Plus, it's less likely to over penetrate, if you have a situation like that, to worry about.
They've got hollow point slugs these days. Wonder if that might help with the penetration issues?
Good question. Let’s ask the meat target!
A little late to the discussion, but I personally keep an 870 loaded with #4 buckshot. I have a small home (1,000 square feet) and live on a budget. I replaced my glass window panes with plexiglass (had a lot of cracked windows when I got the place) and beefed up my two entry doors with stronger locks. I've identified line of fire areas. I feel that trying to keep the bad guys out is just as important as putting them down. The hallway is a perfect "fatal funnel" especially with a few loads of buckshot. I feel it's best for my situation, your mileage may vary.
You guys are "Le creme de la creme" in self defense (personal/home) as well as ballistics. Every video-clips is a calls/info.
Thanks. Stay safe.
Quickly becoming my favorite gun channel. Insightful and logical lessons to be heard. The production value is really good too.
Ive seen 200 yd hits with slugs out of an 18" barrel open open choke. Did not connect in the first round but did on the 2nd and 3rd. Slugs can reach but a rifle is always better at 75yds +
Self defense situations that take place at 75-200yards will be called some degree of murder by the prosecuting attorney, I'd think.
@@clintcannon1902haha 😂….touche
That's why i like Winchester's segmenting slug. After seeing ballistics videos on it i'm sold on it's performance, as far as self defense slugs go.
Another great and informative video. I always learn to think of weapons use in self-defense scenarios in different ways after watching your productions. Please keep'em coming.
Slugs for me i have a metal front door, second floor stair case leading right down to it. Your knocking tone better be right!
Facts lol
1. Over kill
2. The mess you would have to clean up after you shot someone with a slug
3. Shopvac
clean up crew will deal with that, not the home owner
@@GlitchTheDeer if you can afford a clean up crew.
@@mrdiaz2367 they'll do it free of charge they'll just charge you for something else
better to clean up there mess than one of your relatives or yourself.
The copper coated BB size shot of 12 plus 3 copper plated disks 410 bore loads are mighty impressive.
I keep my 870 on a bed rack with nothing but slugs in it.
Nice video. No bs.
the hornady home defense is something i didn't know about. i do have great respect for hornady, though, so i'll check that out for my new moßberg shockwave.
That's hard on the wrists.
Love the use of the ess tset
@Travis Thacker Wholeheartedly agree, they make some solid choices at a surprising price that doesn't make you wince at the price.
Moßberg?
Slugs can be very nice outside the home for defense. Louis Awerbuck carried Brennekes exclusively in his shotguns, didn't use buckshot. Hard to argue with a .73 caliber 1 oz piece of lead traveling twice as fast as a .45 ACP ball load. I'd rather take a hit from a .223 carbine than any 12 gauge slug, probably even a hit from a .308 rifle.
i use buckshoot cartridge for hunting cockroaches,boars,and rats for make them fuck off from my field
The Brenneke 2 3/4 Special Forces load has a hardened lead slug with an hourglass shape if I recall correctly, and it weighs 1 1/4 oz. I believe the Alaska State Police are issued that round for up close and angry encounters with their large bears and moose. Haven't heard of any failure to stop. It is, however, brutal on both ends.
62 grain vs 400 plus grain, I see your point.
Great video Chris. I am a big fan of the federal flight control 00, I will have to give the hornaday a try.
When I was a deputy, one of our officers had a department issued 12ga Remington 870 14" barrel modified choke with rifle sights that would consistently group the Federal LE reduced recoil 00 buck into a group of 6" or less at 40 yards (indoor range). I've seen rifles that couldn't do that well. Outstanding firearm and ammo.
I like the black Hornady shot shells.
Appreciate your channel.
1:10 - if you don';t mind that I ask, what video edit tool do you use that can keep a graphic overlay perfectly still on a moving scene?
I enjoy your logical look at defense. You take a broad teaching and pare it down to the essentials. I like that. Keep the great content coming.
Thanks!
@2:30 "there are no magic bullets" unless you're JFK...
somethin somethin 4:37
My name is JFK
And boy i sure fell
Oh so gash darn safe
In the BACK OF MY AUTOMOBILE
The slug is hands down the best shotgun round!
I personally prefer to keep no4
2 3/4" birdshot in my home defense shotgun.
My max range in my house is only 15 feet and my shotgun at that range has about a 2.5" pattern.
#4 and BB are my best choices for home defence.
#6 shot
Very impressive. I found your exposition to be complete with one exception. Consider practiced use of an 18 1/4 IN barrel, 12 GA, pump shotgun. It has a pistol grip for ease of use in close quarters and is loaded with 00 Buck. Reconsidering "practiced use" to mean regular range time, what is not to like? I've added a quick on/off green laser to the mix. A quick green confirmation of point ensures first-time accuracy without concerns over the intruder firing down the laser path. Your opinion(s)?
a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs can defend you against grizzly bears. imagine the mess it would make of a person
Great for tiolet paper looters
@@mrdiaz2367 lol good one brother
@ im 60 years old, but i remember a time when i was 17. i had some kinda old single shot 12, and a handful of slugs an old farmer gave me. i didnt wanna shoot into a tree but what i did find was an old creosole railroad tie and stand it up. i hit somewhere near the top and i kid you not it went clean through and left a crack the entire length of it. it nearly split it in half. i dont remember exactly what kinda slug it was but i do remember it was 2 3/4. if a standard length slug could do that a 3 or 3 1/2 inch mag slug would be way way way overkill on a person lol
Years ago I purchased a 12 gauge Remington 870 pump shotgun. I used it once in a while to hunt deer in the brush. My customized 30-06. was too long for that type of hunting. While familiarizing myself with my new shotgun my brother in law suggested that I use the 00 odd buck with a slug back up. It worked well. As we had some wild piggys running around the voods at the time. I love that shotgun!!
Can you say, spontaneous decapitation...
In Germany, we mostly have brick walls inside of a building, so we could use slugs, but I personally still would use buckshot or even birdshot, because of the short disatance. At a maximum of maxbe 6 tp 8 yards, the pattern of shot would be better than a single slug.
As always, some high quality content.
Good concise and well informed talk, thanks.
Both buckshot and slugs will sail through drywall, wood studs, insulation, and siding.
Simple red masonary brick stops both cold.
This is the reason why i think the KSG12 is my ideal shotgun because i can load 2 kinds of shells and swap to them with a flip of a switch. Its also bullpup which good for indoor close range.
Absolutely agree. I'd love to see a discussion on the merits of 12ga buckshot versus 40-ish gr 5.56. I think I've been swayed to think that lightweight thin jacketed 5.56 rounds from a lightweight semi auto are best for home defense.
Believe it or not, 00 Buck actually has more overpenetation than a .223 round. Ballistically, rifles are by and far the superior choice however for low income households a shotgun is probably the most viable option. (That's what they did back in the day, bought a shotgun and sawed it off into an SBS because it was the best value for your dollar. NFA changed that though, which I could rant about for ages but I'll save that for another time.)
Both will go through interior walls. Some 5.56 rounds might only go through a couple of walls, but one is really all it takes to be a problem. Identifying safe lanes of fire in the home is generally a better strategy than trying to use ammo selection to avoid interior wall penetration. Not sure what Jonathan means by "ballistically superior", but at close range, 00 buckshot is far more effective than 5.56 or any other intermediate rifle cartridge.
As far as stopping power goes (and I hate that term), intermediate caliber rifles perform the best. I believe the FBI says the two most effective are 6.8 SPC and .300 BLK. However ballistics is a piece of the puzzle, not the whole picture. As you covered in your article about your gel shots of 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP ballistics isn't an exact science but an educated guess as to what will happen.
Combined with the modularity of most intermediate caliber rifles such as the AR-15 and AK-47, people who have the money are probably better off buying a semi-auto rifle over a shotgun. Everybody is different however, so there really isn't a definitive answer to what the best gun is (it's whichever one you shoot the best). Really, it's up to you personally to determine which is best for you. Find something you're comfortable on and reliably sends lead downrange, train with it extensively.
TL;DR Skills over stuff, your capacity to neutralize a threat shouldn't be determined by your gear but by your training and mindset.
shotgun is king inside of 50 yards.
All minutia and technical mumbo jumbo aside, shotgun is like being shot 9ish times at once with pistol caliber rounds, rifle is like being shot once with well... a rifle. Shotgun is still nasty and will certainly get the job done, but rifle does it better.
Unless you're super low income and have IMMEDIATE need for a long gun, you're probably better off saving up for a $450+ semi auto rifle. Better ballistics, more modular, more aftermarket options.
Another great video. I have some slugs in my inventory but I don’t keep them loaded in my shotgun, due to being in a condo.
I like #4 buck shot better.
Masaad Ayoob recommends #1 but putting a load of almost any shot on target at "inside the house" range is going to take down a perp post haste.
gabriel brack Birdshot is for birds.
gabriel brack I wasn't insulting you with that, just confirming your post.
gabriel brack No worries.
Back on topic: there's video of a guy shooting at a cop with a Judge loaded with birdshot.
Might as well have been shooting a blank gun.
#4 is my choice as well. Passes FBI penetration testing and is less likely to fly into the neighbors...
Hello I'm also former law enforcement was a police officer out here in New York and while this is very good information and great video on home defense
What I'm actually looking for is to better improve my outside defense such as in the event of a natural disaster, possible Civil War and God forbid a nuclear war- I was looking at what you take out when you are on duty outside and wondering if you had any tips or maybe we can do a video on what would be needed to survive a situation where you needed to get your family food and to be outside of the house and a much larger environment God forbid if there is a civil war a nuclear war something along those type of scenarios
Load 1 slug for every 2 buckshot just Incase a juggernaut comes in your house😁
So far there's only been one brand of slugs I've consistently seen not over penetrate through targets within 30 feet, whether it's a gel block with layers of hard fabric or a meat target with hard fabric; and not penetrate through hard barriers like single layer brick veneer walls or hollow cinder block - the Winchester Super X hollow point slug.
I don't know if it's the velocity, or the softness of the lead hollow point, or both, but these things seem to consistently fragment in impact, and the largest piece of mushroomed out lead seems to consistently go no further than 14-16 inches on gel, or not exit the rear ribs of meat targets. On the hard barriers tests, the slug just shattered to pieces against a single layer of brick and barely scratched it. Against hollow cinder block, it cracked one side, but couldn't make it through.
I wish people would test other similar velocity hollow point slugs like Federal Power Shok similar to this, but until then, if I HAD to choose/use a slug for interior and exterior home defense, it would be the Winchester Super X.
My 590A1 is loaded with hornady critical defense. They are not the cheapest but I prefer to use those. $11.99 for a box of 10.
Rho Main I use Hornady to hunt with my 30/30
Okay but you must make sure you DRILL with your load ammo too, and that pushes drill costs up.
The good old days. 🤷♂️
@@rationalmind6362 😥
A couple of corrections. 3" 12-ga. Magnum 00 buck has 15 pellets. The range of slugs are far greater than 300 feet. I hunt with a shot gun and I have NO problems with slugs at 200+ yards but I use 3" 12-ga. Magnum slugs
The sound of a shotgun racking one into the chamber is a universal sound that strikes fear into the hearts and minds of all.
In the event that you do discharge a round inside a dwelling, the last thing a good or bad guy is going to be thinking is sticking around to see if you're going to give chase or take a hostage.
IF I lived is a new construction home, there's no way I'd use a slug much less 00 buck for fear of over penetration. A older masonry home, maybe, but not in a frame home.
I had someone that I worked with that was shot with #6 shot at a distance of 25-30 feet. He saw the robber, started turning to run, when he was struct on the right side of his back and right arm. It looked like hamburger. Shooting someone with 00 buck at close range (the same 25-30 foot distance) is going through them unless you hit large bones. IMO, for home defense (inside the house), there is no need for a slug in a shotgun.
Shotguns are essentially meat grinders. A single buckshot can make someone lose an arm, leg, or head or open their rib cages, backs up. A shotgun is one of the nastiest guns to get shot with. Survival rate are low too.
my testing in this rural area showed me that is 00 buck is the best, there are bear, wolves , two legged , I do keep slugs near, but the side saddle is loaded with 00 buck
I think I'll stick with my sabot slugs, I've seen them stop white tail deer in there tracks.
2-3/4 rifled hollow point at 100 yards from an 18" barrel. Hit a hog in the neck and he flat out helicopter spun in a circle straight to the ground. 3" sabots aren't needed.
I load up a pair of 3in Magnum 1oz Hardcast Slugs after 3 3in (std pressure) "Large Property"Scarcely-Populated & Heavily Wooded Reasoning for my HD 12ga. On the SideSaddle, it goes two more 3in Magnum Slugs & 4 more 3in Buckshot shells carring a Baker's Dozen worth of 00.
Good video for those on the Fence when
I just have all doors and windows wired with explosives and a improvised claymore cover the hallway.
I carry the remote detonator at all times, I decided for reliability not to use an app on my phone.
It ties in nicely with my motion sensor alarm system, as soon as I get a warning about a possible intruder I can check (usually with the CCT) and decide whether to detonate or not.
Which makes it irrelevant what hardware the bag guys are carrying… you turn up with your shotgun and you're facing three guys with semi autos, maybe even carbines and you can be outshot.
casbott Good sense of humor, ended with a truth...Well played sir, well played. You'll probably go far in life.👍
Great video thanks for posting. I always figured a slug was out of the question but for people with a ranch it makes sense.
Buckshot would be my choice. Along with my G19.
pali-ak47 Birdshot waxers for me. Maximum lethality. Zero collateral.
This is a very good idea because it offers lethality with no over penetration or spread, good thinking.
I would hesitate using home modified ammunition that no factory makes as a self defense load. Using modified ammunition might show intent to a nefarious or ignorant lawyer/judge. Other than quality control and legality it does seem like a decent home defense load though. I'll stick with 9mm, soft point .223 and buck shot myself.
EDIT: If anyone know of any cases for or against it I would love to hear about em.
thirdcoastboy I don't know man, I think it would be quite easy to cite waxers as a hunting purpose round. Plus I'm not sure that the wax would be possible to show after the round has hit the target, due to the kinetic energy which would evaporate the wax. Good thinking though, better safe than sorry.
Excellent overview... Just recently shot a few PDX1 slugs in a Defensive Shotgun course, but I'm perfectly content with standard military spec 00 9 pellet ammo.
Shotguns loaded with solid shots were carried in Vietnam, although banned by the Geneva Convention. Using one against a human target is madness. It will tear the body apart.
That's the point. Stay out people's homes if they don't want to run that risk.
In that case you don't shoot at the enemy soldier, shoot at his: rifle; canteen, ammo/pistol pouch, helmet; belt buckle; ... get the picture..... that's what our DS's told us about shooting .50 cal, white phosphorus, etc... at troops. There's away around most things....
I remember the Thunder Ranch guy saying; Pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people, and shotguns remove body parts from people (I may be paraphrasing - I'm old!)
If you shoot someone who is 75 yards away from you, get ready to do some real tall explaining after you are handcuffed and jailed.
@Patrick Bateman so long as you can prove it and they didnt stop shooting.
Good presentation. The knock down power of a 20 gauge slug for one instance; the Hornady 250 grain Sabot slug at the advertised velocity of 1800 fps is approximately 1907 ft. lbs. The 300 grain 12 gauge is 2665 ft. lbs.
That's a lot of damn power whatever your preference is and something that has to be given its proper respect.
With all my Mossberg 500's I settled on heavy field loads of #4 shot 1 1/4 oz.. at feet not yards will ruin any bad guys work day. Especially in an urban environment don't want to bring any neighbors into an unwanted fray. Backed up with one of the single action army 45's
Great info!!! The eight pellet shotgun round is my choice for home defense. Tho I would like to have the slug as a back up round.
What about dragon's breath rounds? For when you want to cook the intruder and burn down your house in the process
Thanks for yet another great video.. learned about the tighter wads available. Good stuff
The 'opps' at the end made that video...
i guess no one watch till the end and catch this?
a hit is a hit, it still counts.
had that been a bad guy you would have blown off one leg in addition to hitting him in the upper body.
@gothael1 - he laughed than said "oops".
Great rundown
Wonder when slugs will be in stock again...
You can get stuff right now. Not your pick of the litter, but solid rounds none the less.
@Dogman tossed my salad I haven't seen buckshot at my Walmart in forever. I think the biggest shot you can get in maybe #4. Five round for $8 is horrible. You can tell most people are after defense minded rounds.
@@Polarcupcheck amen. they sell out as fast as they come in
@@robertboreman7672 Yup, and I am frustrated, because I just had a chance to get some for a good price and waited too long. I have slugs, but I wanted to try these ones out. Fucking ammo hoarders just buying 500 rounds at a time. If you need 500 slugs, you probably won't be living long, anyway. All I wanted was 20. I am good on buck shot, and other shot. I ordered those in the past, plus a waterfowl load. They canceled my order two days later.
When Trump is re-elected.
What about a wax birdshot slug. It hits like a slug and comes out the other side as birdshot getting stopped by the wall. Sounds to me like the perfect home defense round.
A 1 ounce slug is like a baseball though your neighbor's window. It will go past their skull, through the fridge, wall, and garage door.
For home defense I use #4 buckshot. I would even prefer large bird shot #2/BB, etc. over a slug for IN HOME defense.
what about something like a .410...I use a saiga shotgun chambered in .410 shooting buck shot with a 15 round magazine, recoil is less, and the risk of over penetration is slightly lessened but still effective man stopper. thoughts?
I am not aware of any .410 ammo that both patterns well and provides adequate penetration for self-defense use.
Lucky Gunner Ammo it would be interesting if you would do a video on it and see what test results you get like you have with 12 gauge I think .410 is very underrated but that's just me, make a video :)
You're not really giving up any velocity or pellet size, only pellet count by going down to a .410 (typically 3 pellets of 000 buck vs 8-9 of 00). But having 15 rounds and potentially quicker follow up shots, could make up for that I guess. As long as it's 100% reliable, I wouldn't feel under gunned with it.
OceanKing6725 with a .410 you actually do lose a decent amount of velocity look at a few chronograph comparisons, at least from what I've seen. and yes the extra capacity from the saiga platform and the lighter recoil I feel makes it the perfect home defense gun at least for me. I'd really like to see some more tests and comparisons
Guess it depends what specific loads you're comparing but something like Winchester Super X in moving pretty quick even in .410, about the same as 12 gauge and it's 000 instead of 00. Now those .410 loads design for revolvers are another story.
I agree with the 00 buck. I purchased the Law Enforcement 12 gauge shells that are not as hot as the hunting ones. They are supposed to allow you to keep tracking your target with the less recoil. That is what I am using and have given the slugs and 00 buck to both my father and father in-law for their shotguns for home use.
"Slugs for self defense"? *TAOFLEDERMAUS has entered the chat*
Anthony Coffey Slugs from Russia.
THANKS, for a lucid, facts + experiment-based review of some good SG options. 👍👍👍
If you live in the suburbs and one of those "artillery rounds "hits one of your neighbors even by accident you are screwed. BB. rounds or number#4 turkey loads are more than enough stop the bandicoots.
Yep defend with hollow points,but if overpowered by a group of intruders......shottie-time!
Thanks for the great advice. Appreciate your mentioning shells that restrict expansion.
4:41 Is that Amy Poehler?
With Alex Jones holding her?
like how u explain things so simple and I learn a lot from your channel
Shooting a shotgun inside? Think about hearing protection. Thank me later.
Who has time to grab hearing protection.
They sure do raise alot of pussies now a days
Yes because when my life is in danger I'm very concerned if I will temporally go deaf.
Yes dear stop playing with the attacher and bring me my ear protection, oh and my safety glasses, maybe a hard hat.
@@KiraIRL If you have ear muffs on you may not hear the multiple intruders.
@@atumre4705 if they only made active ear pro that you can put on in 2 seconds and cancels loud noises as well as amplifies quiet ones, that you can buy for less than 100 bucks. OH WAIT! Good luck with your situational awareness after you fire your first shot (like a police officer telling you to drop your weapon).
This guy is great ! He gets right into what we guys need to know !
As Western Airlines would say: "The Only Way to Fly."
Super glad to be revisiting these videos, Chris! It's like a guide book sitting on your bookshelf. - You're informative, and you can answer those repetitive, pesky questions that normal people are asking. This is relevant regardless of gauge. I'm stuck in that 20ga camp. (I've already watched that video) --> super glad that you made this one, too.