That's the baritone I grew up with in a 1960s American marching band. They were probably made more euphonium-like to set them off from the trombone, which plays in the same range. In chordal writing, they blend well between alto horn and sousaphone/tuba. But when pushed, they can get brassy.
Seeing videos on baritones make me happy because it feels like people outside a brass band don't know what it is and it's annoying having to explain every time I mention I play one
Rip. I was looking forward all year to playing baritone in my school's marching band and at the last minute they apparently ran out of baritones. I'll be watching this series of videos while simultaneously being sad lol
The American Style "Baritone" is more of a Hybrid instrument. It has a bore size and bell size much bigger than a traditional Baritone Horn but is smaller than even the smaller Euphoniums. More specifically the American Style "Euphonium" (which is a more appropriate title) produces a much more mellower tone than a traditional british style Baritone horn but not quite as smooth as a traditional Euphonium. This horn also has the "edge" of a baritone horn. These style horns were popular in America due to the bell facing forward, it being easier to hold for younger players and being much more cost efficient than standard Euphoniums. Pound for pound, this is still considered a Euphonium. David Werden had a very excellent write up on the differences between Baritone Vs. Euphonium with the American Style Euphonium usually fitting perfectly in the middle. The big confusion comes from the naming scheme used by American instrument manufactures. For marketing purposes these American style Euphoniums were incorrectly labeled as "Baritone Horns" while technically being student model Euphoniums. The traditional British styled Euphoniums were labeled as "Professional" or "Intermediate" horns and usually marked up pretty well in terms of price. Thus the improper naming began as the American Euphonium being labeled as a "baritone" made it seem like an inferior instrument which actuality it's just a student model horn. I'm a Euphonium player and we played on Yamaha American Style Euphoniums in our marching band in college. And let me tell you, with a competent player behind these horns, they can sound marvelous. Listen to old recordings of Simone Mantia or Leornard Falcon as they are playing on these American Style Euphoniums usually with 4 valves or 5 valve combinations (Double Bell Euphonium). I own a Olds American Style Euphonium that sounds marvelous.
TK Kitty Really? We've only got two American style baritones in my whole school district, me being one of them. Everybody else is a euphonium. More than half of the people in the Middle and High school band didn't know that some baritones came with curved bells. Where you live is it more common to have an American style baritone?
In my experience nowadays those style of baritone are reserved for Beginner Band and for Traditional Style Marching Bands (very common in Texas thanks to A&M being one of the few college bands doing it nowadays)
I have a 3 valve euphonium I wish it was 4 valved because with only 3 valves, I can't hit any very low pedal tones, and believe I could with the extra tubing of the 4 valve euphonium!
I've often thought about that. I think the euphonium has a true baritone voice or tenor voice depending on how its played. To me, the f and eb tubas actually have more of a bass-baritone voice rather than a bass voice you would think a tuba would have.
I just tried one of these out last week, quite a unique instrument! Due to its conical nature, I actually had to double check whether or not it was actually a baritone. Agreed that it's quite comfortable to play, despite missing the fourth valve.
In my high school band a couple decades ago we had baritone horns of this style (freely interchanged with euphoniums). Not sure if the whole forward-facing bell design is on the way out, but clearly it works for this baritone
as a euph/baritone(or tiny tuba as my friends call it), I really like seeing the videos on these also remember playing a shitier version of that type of baritone in elementary school(bell looked like it had been used as a punching bag, valves barley worked, etc.)
I played this style from the early 70's thru the mid-90's.In high school I played this type and the first chair played his euphonium.Both types played side by side(mid to late '70's).
Trent, I have always understood the difference between whatever is called a baritone or a euphonium, is the diameter of the tubing from the last (3 or 4) valve port. A true baritone horn is a cylindrical instrument from said last port to the bell joint. A euphonium is conical over the same distance. What you are holding in this video is a three-valve euphonium. John H.
John Havener baritones are cylindrical like a euphonium. Like every instrument in a UK brass band bar trombone. The tonal difference comes in the bore of that tubing and in the distance over which the bore increases towards the bell.
No problem! This issue has been around for a loooong time, and throwing an ocean or two in the middle of it does nothing to clear the water, does it? I speak from an American point of view, and I'm quite sure that terminology and usage of words such as "baritone" and "euphonium" vary in meaning from "sea to shining sea!"
As an American, most of the American style baritones I think I've seen are set-up basically like British baritones in shape, but have their necks not in-line with the valve section (more tuba like) . The only reason I even think they are American is they look too big and too conical to be British. The tilted bell and front-valves are, to my knowledge, just variations on the same basic instrument.
Nice Video, Trent! Just one thing: this isn't just an "american" style baritone, there is an instrument used in austro-slovanian folk music called "oberkrainer bariton" and it is basically the same instrument. Valves also put in front and bell facing forwards :D And most of them even have a 4th valve :D
i have a nadir ali & co euphonium and for how it is it is in great condition, but i know nothing about it. before i got it i used a very similar school instrument but the one i used had a silver bell, and i loved it
This is the style of euphonium I currently play. It produces a very unique sound while playing between a player with a King 4-valve and the trombone section. It is eerily directly between the two in sound and projection, although I obviously play the euphonium parts. When listening to the recording, it harmonizes amazingly with the other euphonium. I have glanced at and heard it briefly mentioned that this style of euphonium can be used in marching. I have only ever seen the standard marching baritones (that look like a giant trumpet) used for marching. Funnily enough, I marched with a compensating euphonium once in high school. Everyone thought it was hilarious, as it was a school instrument that nobody liked and never got used. I preferred the school's marching baritone, at the time. Has anyone ever seen someone seriously marching with the American euphonium style though? I haven't.
Knute American baritones and euphoniums are practically identical in American compositions. We see them as one in the same, especially local concert bands and marching groups.
Excellent video, you do the instrument great justice! I have an old Conn I still play for fun. To really see one of these things in action, four valves and all, look up "Lechner Buam". Mind blowing.
I mentor in an annual summer band in America and a lot of baritone players have this style, however when I play with my regular class I do not see this kind. And in marching band, we use euphoniums.
I have an American alto horn with this style of bell (although fully rotatable) as well as forward facing valves. Given that this design is more comfortable, I wonder why the upward facing bell/valves design is so much more common?
Every single time I searched "baritone instrument" on Google Images, I always got the 4 valve one and very rarely came across this one. I played it in grade 6 and I enjoyed playing it
I'm considered a special bean in my school districts bands because we only have three American style baritones, two that work and one that's broken. I play the American style baritone along with another guy in the band, while everyone else plays the euphonium bass clef and treble clef.
I love my front-action baritone. Especially for a long-armed player it is far superior ergonomically to a top-action horn, in my opinion. I also wish I had a 4th valve for extended low range, though :/
I agree with Trent's comment that this style of instrument is comfortable to play. I like the ergonomics of this style of instrument better than a conventional euphonium.
Okay... Having a bit of trouble processing this. So, I live in the US and I've only ever seen our "Baritones" have the valves on top (facing up, played with the right hand) with the bell going over the right shoulder (and facing directly up). (Also, we have a Marching Baritones that are built SPECIFICALLY for marching, where the bell faces forward and it acts like any other small instrument, like a Trumpet, despite it being quite big.) We have some Tubas that have front facing valves but of course we use those for Marching band/Parades since we have concert Tubas that have valves that face up. I always thought that those Baritones were called "European" and not "American" since I've never seen one that's been used here. Can you elaborate?
lbrown21494 funny because a traditional baritone has the exact same length of piping as a trombone a larger bore and a much bigger bell! My wifes bass trombone mutes are too small for my baritone. Trombones are just designed to be blown, baritone is a bridging instrument that ties other sounds together. You can still get a brassy trombone sound out of one and you can still get a more mellow sound like a euphonium. Just not the extremes.
King 2266 and 2268 (with the upright bell) come with a 4th valve. I believe Wessex produces something similar as well. I once read this article years ago- www.dwerden.com/eu-articles-bareuph.cfm and I've been referring to this type of instrument as "American-bore Euphonium" since. Yamaha and Jupiter call them euphs, but King prefers to call them baritones.
Trent, If you really want to see the reasons behind the design of the American baritone. March with it and with an upright English and with the oval European.
I’m American but I can’t find this baritone can someone help my brother like send me a link to some store btw the middle school band has this type of baritone
That instrument was made by F.E. Olds and Son. Bach never made baritones of any type as far as I'm aware. They were always contracted out to other manufactures and Olds did them till the late 70s. Later on they were made by Yamaha.
Trent i was wondering if you had a business email that (by your choice) i could send a piece i composed for Horn in F and mellophone, for reviewing or just overall if you wanted to play it.
that looks like a euphonium....we in Italy call euphoniums --flicorno baritono , what you call baritone we call flicorno tenore and what you call tenor horn we call flicorno contralto
Conn does sell a euphonium like that bud the bell facing outward doesnt define it as a baritone. Ive seen baritones with the bell facing upward. Plus usually if it has four valves its a euphonium
It's funny typically the schools with little funding I went to growing up still had this kind of "baritone," the richer ones had probably melted these and replaced em with euphs :P
That's the baritone I grew up with in a 1960s American marching band. They were probably made more euphonium-like to set them off from the trombone, which plays in the same range. In chordal writing, they blend well between alto horn and sousaphone/tuba. But when pushed, they can get brassy.
Seeing videos on baritones make me happy because it feels like people outside a brass band don't know what it is and it's annoying having to explain every time I mention I play one
Pippa Price i literally had to do this last Thursday at a school assembly. only instrument in the band no-one knows lol
Ikr!
same
I end up giving up and just saying it's a tiny tuba
Same Euphonium is my life
and then theres a euphonoium which is a no exsisting thing
Rip. I was looking forward all year to playing baritone in my school's marching band and at the last minute they apparently ran out of baritones. I'll be watching this series of videos while simultaneously being sad lol
The American Style "Baritone" is more of a Hybrid instrument. It has a bore size and bell size much bigger than a traditional Baritone Horn but is smaller than even the smaller Euphoniums. More specifically the American Style "Euphonium" (which is a more appropriate title) produces a much more mellower tone than a traditional british style Baritone horn but not quite as smooth as a traditional Euphonium. This horn also has the "edge" of a baritone horn. These style horns were popular in America due to the bell facing forward, it being easier to hold for younger players and being much more cost efficient than standard Euphoniums.
Pound for pound, this is still considered a Euphonium. David Werden had a very excellent write up on the differences between Baritone Vs. Euphonium with the American Style Euphonium usually fitting perfectly in the middle. The big confusion comes from the naming scheme used by American instrument manufactures. For marketing purposes these American style Euphoniums were incorrectly labeled as "Baritone Horns" while technically being student model Euphoniums. The traditional British styled Euphoniums were labeled as "Professional" or "Intermediate" horns and usually marked up pretty well in terms of price. Thus the improper naming began as the American Euphonium being labeled as a "baritone" made it seem like an inferior instrument which actuality it's just a student model horn.
I'm a Euphonium player and we played on Yamaha American Style Euphoniums in our marching band in college. And let me tell you, with a competent player behind these horns, they can sound marvelous. Listen to old recordings of Simone Mantia or Leornard Falcon as they are playing on these American Style Euphoniums usually with 4 valves or 5 valve combinations (Double Bell Euphonium). I own a Olds American Style Euphonium that sounds marvelous.
OMG YESSSS "THE NEXT COUPLE OF VIDEOS WE ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT BARITONES"
Jackrabbit literally my reaction thoooo
Mine too
The first piece he plays at the end is called Napoli by Herman Bellstedt incase anybody was wondering, that was actually the first variation of it.
My band director has one of these in one of his practice rooms and i always thought that someone dropped it because the bell was pointed forwards.
Wow Trent! You really get to show that you at heart are a baritonist in this video :)
He's actually a euphophonist/ trombonist at heart I think!
Regardless nice chops and great sound
Literally everybody in my high school band has this style of baritone besides me. I have the only 4 valve euphonium :)
TK Kitty Really? We've only got two American style baritones in my whole school district, me being one of them. Everybody else is a euphonium. More than half of the people in the Middle and High school band didn't know that some baritones came with curved bells. Where you live is it more common to have an American style baritone?
My band has 6 American style baritones
Edit: they have 6 American Style and 4 straight belled baritones
Huh?! You say that like its a bad thing lol🤣
In my experience nowadays those style of baritone are reserved for Beginner Band and for Traditional Style Marching Bands (very common in Texas thanks to A&M being one of the few college bands doing it nowadays)
I have a 3 valve euphonium I wish it was 4 valved because with only 3 valves, I can't hit any very low pedal tones, and believe I could with the extra tubing of the 4 valve euphonium!
I think it's funny that a baritone plays in the tenor voice, whereas the tenor horn is normally in the alto voice.
B R I C K. In America it’s called an alto horn, a tenor horn is a baritone.
I've often thought about that. I think the euphonium has a true baritone voice or tenor voice depending on how its played. To me, the f and eb tubas actually have more of a bass-baritone voice rather than a bass voice you would think a tuba would have.
yes baritone and euphonium vids
Quite the tour de force of your skill sir! Best I've seen from you. Plus the horn sounds great as well. Great job!
This the exact baritone type I played in highschool and Coast Guard Recruit band! Love playing it!!!
My school uses that in marching band. I'm a trumpet player but I love the baritone and this is my favorite kind.
I just tried one of these out last week, quite a unique instrument! Due to its conical nature, I actually had to double check whether or not it was actually a baritone. Agreed that it's quite comfortable to play, despite missing the fourth valve.
In my high school band a couple decades ago we had baritone horns of this style (freely interchanged with euphoniums). Not sure if the whole forward-facing bell design is on the way out, but clearly it works for this baritone
Nice video Trent I have a Question. Can u play the Bass guitar with a trumpet mouth piece Just curious
" Can u play the Bass guitar with a trumpet mouth piece " Sure he can but I think a plastic pick would be easier on the strings.
Use the mouthpiece as a slide and play it like the guy from Morphine.
Douglas Fur I'm just kidding lol
Stick to potions... Music obviously isn't your thing, professor.
Davie504 subscriber?
as a euph/baritone(or tiny tuba as my friends call it), I really like seeing the videos on these
also remember playing a shitier version of that type of baritone in elementary school(bell looked like it had been used as a punching bag, valves barley worked, etc.)
I played this style from the early 70's thru the mid-90's.In high school I played this type and the first chair played his euphonium.Both types played side by side(mid to late '70's).
Trent, I have always understood the difference between whatever is called a baritone or a euphonium, is the diameter of the tubing from the last (3 or 4) valve port. A true baritone horn is a cylindrical instrument from said last port to the bell joint. A euphonium is conical over the same distance. What you are holding in this video is a three-valve euphonium. John H.
John Havener baritones are cylindrical like a euphonium. Like every instrument in a UK brass band bar trombone. The tonal difference comes in the bore of that tubing and in the distance over which the bore increases towards the bell.
Steven Rydel I believe I did say they were cylindrical...as are trumpets and trombones. Tubas, horns and euph are conical...
John Havener my bad. Use of conical and cylindrical confused my mind lol
No problem! This issue has been around for a loooong time, and throwing an ocean or two in the middle of it does nothing to clear the water, does it?
I speak from an American point of view, and I'm quite sure that terminology and usage of words such as "baritone" and "euphonium" vary in meaning from "sea to shining sea!"
As an American, most of the American style baritones I think I've seen are set-up basically like British baritones in shape, but have their necks not in-line with the valve section (more tuba like) . The only reason I even think they are American is they look too big and too conical to be British. The tilted bell and front-valves are, to my knowledge, just variations on the same basic instrument.
Nice Video, Trent! Just one thing: this isn't just an "american" style baritone, there is an instrument used in austro-slovanian folk music called "oberkrainer bariton" and it is basically the same instrument. Valves also put in front and bell facing forwards :D And most of them even have a 4th valve :D
i have a nadir ali & co euphonium and for how it is it is in great condition, but i know nothing about it. before i got it i used a very similar school instrument but the one i used had a silver bell, and i loved it
This is the style of euphonium I currently play. It produces a very unique sound while playing between a player with a King 4-valve and the trombone section. It is eerily directly between the two in sound and projection, although I obviously play the euphonium parts. When listening to the recording, it harmonizes amazingly with the other euphonium. I have glanced at and heard it briefly mentioned that this style of euphonium can be used in marching. I have only ever seen the standard marching baritones (that look like a giant trumpet) used for marching. Funnily enough, I marched with a compensating euphonium once in high school. Everyone thought it was hilarious, as it was a school instrument that nobody liked and never got used. I preferred the school's marching baritone, at the time. Has anyone ever seen someone seriously marching with the American euphonium style though? I haven't.
I’m from the U.S. and our band dosen’t distinguish between baritone and euphonium
also, I used to play a baritone exactly like this one
Knute American baritones and euphoniums are practically identical in American compositions. We see them as one in the same, especially local concert bands and marching groups.
Excellent video, you do the instrument great justice! I have an old Conn I still play for fun. To really see one of these things in action, four valves and all, look up "Lechner Buam". Mind blowing.
Nice oboe you have there.
David Chalmers I think you mean cello.
Naw dawg, the cello is the larger one.
O my gosh it's not a oboe it is a Flute Come on you should now that 😂
no, im pretty sure thats an attack helicopter...
Pianomansam _ are. You sure about that
I personally love your videos and this one especially because i play the the baritone horn
I mentor in an annual summer band in America and a lot of baritone players have this style, however when I play with my regular class I do not see this kind. And in marching band, we use euphoniums.
Baritone is one of my favorite instruments to play. I can play almost every instrument in the band btw
I have an American alto horn with this style of bell (although fully rotatable) as well as forward facing valves. Given that this design is more comfortable, I wonder why the upward facing bell/valves design is so much more common?
just moved from a baritone like that from middle school and it sounds amazing and now in high school i play tuba.at a lower quality.
Every single time I searched "baritone instrument" on Google Images, I always got the 4 valve one and very rarely came across this one. I played it in grade 6 and I enjoyed playing it
You people must be living in shell if you never seen this style horn. Conn,Olds,King, and many other manufacturers made or make these style horns
Conn made/makes a 4 valve american style baritone, they even made a 5 valve double bell version with the 5th valve being used to change bells
They are both fairly rare though, especially the double bell one
amari lewis these are called bell front baritone,the other is an upright baritone.I have been playing baritone over 55 years
I'm considered a special bean in my school districts bands because we only have three American style baritones, two that work and one that's broken. I play the American style baritone along with another guy in the band, while everyone else plays the euphonium bass clef and treble clef.
I've seen baritones like this in old videos of high school and college marching bands
We had none of that model when I was in high school band. Just euphoniums unless it was football season then we used the marching baritone.
I love my front-action baritone. Especially for a long-armed player it is far superior ergonomically to a top-action horn, in my opinion. I also wish I had a 4th valve for extended low range, though :/
You know what Trent, that's the best I've heard you sound/play - maybe this instrument is where your musical soul really lies?
I agree with Trent's comment that this style of instrument is comfortable to play. I like the ergonomics of this style of instrument better than a conventional euphonium.
I must say, your playing is quite impressive in this video! Have you practiced a lot lately ?
What a coincidence! I am in a highschool marching band and I play this exact instrument and have the same first name!
Both Conn and Olds made 4 valve baritones
I played this curved bell baritone in band,. Why have most bands now gone to the upright bell? This curved bell is so much easier to carry.
can you try to do some double f horn vids after the baritones
have you reviewed a Vincent Bach Tuba?
I used this Baritone in band!!! (I play french horn now)
My dream horn is a Yamaha YEP 211 with a 4th valve.
Could you look into marching baritones?
How to make a practice mute for this Instrument?
Okay... Having a bit of trouble processing this. So, I live in the US and I've only ever seen our "Baritones" have the valves on top (facing up, played with the right hand) with the bell going over the right shoulder (and facing directly up). (Also, we have a Marching Baritones that are built SPECIFICALLY for marching, where the bell faces forward and it acts like any other small instrument, like a Trumpet, despite it being quite big.) We have some Tubas that have front facing valves but of course we use those for Marching band/Parades since we have concert Tubas that have valves that face up. I always thought that those Baritones were called "European" and not "American" since I've never seen one that's been used here. Can you elaborate?
Conn and king made American style baritones with 4th valves if you were to get curious
you should check out how Michigan State University holds those horns, and tell me if you think it's comfortable after that!
Nice playing, I feel like these are nice little instruments. It's easy to over blow them though. They don't take as much air as euphonium or trombone.
lbrown21494 funny because a traditional baritone has the exact same length of piping as a trombone a larger bore and a much bigger bell! My wifes bass trombone mutes are too small for my baritone. Trombones are just designed to be blown, baritone is a bridging instrument that ties other sounds together. You can still get a brassy trombone sound out of one and you can still get a more mellow sound like a euphonium. Just not the extremes.
King 2266 and 2268 (with the upright bell) come with a 4th valve. I believe Wessex produces something similar as well.
I once read this article years ago- www.dwerden.com/eu-articles-bareuph.cfm and I've been referring to this type of instrument as "American-bore Euphonium" since. Yamaha and Jupiter call them euphs, but King prefers to call them baritones.
Where is his intro and outtro music from ?
High notes are easier to play on this type of horn as opposed to the british style with a smaller bor and sharper tubing turns.
Cool! I used to have one!
Oberkrainer Bariton
Trent, If you really want to see the reasons behind the design of the American baritone. March with it and with an upright English and with the oval European.
I’m American but I can’t find this baritone can someone help my brother like send me a link to some store btw the middle school band has this type of baritone
i play that in band
That instrument was made by F.E. Olds and Son. Bach never made baritones of any type as far as I'm aware. They were always contracted out to other manufactures and Olds did them till the late 70s. Later on they were made by Yamaha.
I did a review on something like that on my channel
Ive played both European baritone and American baritone and i prefer the American version, it has a very smooth sound
Trent i was wondering if you had a business email that (by your choice) i could send a piece i composed for Horn in F and mellophone, for reviewing or just overall if you wanted to play it.
Sure. Trenthamiltonnz@gmail.com
i played one of these in middle school!
Is this the intermediate between a tuba and a sousaphone? Brass weirdness
Willem Kossen its more of an intermediate between trombone and euphonium tonally. Physically it sits between euphonium and tenor horn.
I do find an American bari to be nimbler than a euphonium; and it's easier to play high due to the smaller bore.
I played the Baritone in high school band.
My school has 500 baritones and they all look like that, even the rust
That's a 3-Valve Bell-Front Euphonium
Haha I knew you were gonna play the Carnival of Venice before I even clicked on the vid I was just guessing which variation ;) I know you too well
He did not he played Napoli
part of it was from carnival
that looks like a euphonium....we in Italy call euphoniums --flicorno baritono , what you call baritone we call flicorno tenore and what you call tenor horn we call flicorno contralto
My school owns one that I used last year
Very nice playing, by the way...always did enjoy "Funiculi, Funicula."
King makes a bell front baritone with four valves.
ive seen that style of baritone with a fourth valve at my local music shop
Jarhead2112 euphoniums?
No it had the bell facing foward with the valves on the other side conn made it
Conn does sell a euphonium like that bud the bell facing outward doesnt define it as a baritone. Ive seen baritones with the bell facing upward. Plus usually if it has four valves its a euphonium
So then it would make it both a baritone and a euph right? Idk
There is a conn loyalist
They made a tuba in this design, my school has it.
Then it has a recording bell
That is not American style of baritones actually the design is the same as the euphoniums you have showed but older ones look like that
FINALLY I FOUND THE TYPE OF BARITONE I HAVE
I've never seen a baritone in America with a bell bent that way
Monty Soto every middle school band in the US I've ever seen has those style baritones.
I'm willing to bet this would sound less trombone like with a deeper mouthpiece.
qué instrumento es
Yo tengo una trompeta
ameerica
It's funny typically the schools with little funding I went to growing up still had this kind of "baritone," the richer ones had probably melted these and replaced em with euphs :P
Ah, Skoda Laski
Yay my instrument ( o u o )
As a Baritone player, I'm pleased ^u^
that's the style of baritone that I play
That's the baritone I use
Laser kiwi
Big 10 bands love these baritones lol
nice euphonium
Get a marching baritone or euphonium!
Angel Mata I play the marching baritone, it's great fun. I haven't played a marching euphonium
Jackrabbit well its basically a baritone but with a longer bell
Angel Mata ik that the concert euphonium is fun to play, I play that :)
Jackrabbit a marching euph is like a concert euph held out horizontally. It's hell to march with.
Did you really need to flex on me with the intro :((
now go listen to Maynard Ferguson shred on one!
Yes! Listen to Great Guns.
Playing the American style baritone is weird as a horn and trombone player
My middle school had a baritone just like that one. I played it once and it smelled awful.