Well, SSL doesn't really model their plugins that well (Check Dan Worrall Videos). It's not always a fact that the most accurate software emulation will be with the original company.
Interesting video about the Violet EQ! I haven't got that unit, but I do like the X-Saturator and Channel Strip + Bus Compressor plugins. Hopefully he'll do a plugin doctor analysis of those too
...also remember that Moog or SSL emulation is a whole different ballgame, because a reverb pedal is still digital. It's the algorithm in a box. They can just interpret the same code in the plugin. No need for analog component transfer curves emulations and such...
GREAT points! I'm a long-time Strymon customer who owns more of their pedals than I care to mention, and I still haven't even DEMOED the plug-in because I was so put off by the fact that the demo time is only 7 days -- that's ridiculous. Just about any other plug-in on the planet give you at least 14 days, if not 30. Bad moves by Strymon in their first foray into the software market.
I probably will never get this until it’s on a serious sale. I mean: valhalla is 50 bucks, even pro r and other industry standards are between 99 and 140 bucks. Even the neunaber wet plugin was at 49 intro and 99 standard - and it’s fantastic.
Love the comments, Dan. I would definitely by the Moog or SSL over the Strymon since they've considered their market and what they can do for the market not just what the market can do for them. Thanks for analyzing these buying/marketing issues so well. Cheers, and Happy New Year!
I don’t think price is very much the issue. Because it wasn’t very long ago that a certain sample library manufacturer offered amazingly high-quality sample library’s for an amazingly high price, and did not offer deals or discounts on their products until here recently. For people who don’t already own the paddle it’s a benefit if you’re looking for that specific sound . As well as if people don’t have great I/O for their audio interfaces to run through a big sky this is really beneficial as well. Yes, there are other plug-in manufacturers that do something similar and are cheaper and probably a better suited for the job Stroman could offer a deal or discount as well as upgrade the software to fit the needs (most reverb plug-ins are tempo synced directly anyways, if you’re looking for the professional outcome, you have to dial it in with a calculator)
I can't help thinking that a lot of this is bourne out of the risks these companies face because of chip shortages, inflation / energy prices, rising wages (see Moog) and potentially and the difficulty of even manufacturing the previous two years. They need injections of cash and quick, and the first companies to release, will get the limited cash available; before it runs out. Noise Engineering were as usual, pretty quick on the uptake with that, and tested the water, with Reason plugins. Then bundle 1 with Basimilus (which they have and will sell plenty of anyway). For companies trying to currently sell hardware reverbs, and character processors/effects, I think it's a risky move. Because there was always a stubborn lingering perception, mistaken, that hardware was somehow magically better. And Strymon and similar benifitted from that mystique. But, here, they can't have their cake and eat it too. Though, Big Sky is maybe a unusual case, because it has two markets, guitar players (which will still always want a pedal). But synthesists loved it too, and if they absolutely had to choose, they prefer a plugin. I used to own a Big Sky, Specular Tempus and others, but now, I prefer the ITB options. Yes, definitely 7th Heaven, Valhalla. The Arturia FX plate. I do love Strymon Magneto in my modular to bits though, but there I want the CV control and the many hardware knobs ... that's more like an instrument.
Ugh. I've been waiting for this to become a plugin. That said... I've been waiting way too long. Strymon took too long bringing plugins to market, which should have been a no-brainer for a digital effects company (look at Eventide). And they could have done it BETTER than Eventide. I am sure the BigSky plugin is great, but at $200 for a reverb? Albeit fully-featured, it's too expensive. I am more likely to buy the pedal for live applications and go with Valhalla for recording.
Agreed. SSL fusion emulations are excellent and a worthy cheaper alternative to the hardware. I haven’t tried out the plug versions of the MF from Moog but these look great. As you said the incentive to try a plugin version has to be more attractive, and for £100 more you could probably get the bigsky pedal secondhand.. I think Strymon definitely need to go back and look at this and understand the plugin domain a little more…
I have purchased the Moogerfooger plugin because the pedals are unobtainable and I like to support Moog. I likely won't be buying the Strymon plugin, as I do agree that it is overpriced slightly, and there are already many other good reverb plugins available (Valhalla and Eventide immediately come to mind) that are priced much more affordably.
I don't get the moaning about the price. There are lots and lots of reverb plugins that sell for way more than 200 dollars from the likes of Eventide, UAD, SSL and many others. Valhalla plugins are VERY affordable for what you get, there is nothing else quite like them for the value so everything else is gonna look expensive by comparison. If Valhalla did not exist, 200 dollars for a reverb plugin with several algorithms would be a totally normal price.
I think boils down to the fact that the original pedal is only $479, so this $200 plug-in is less of a saving than it would be if you were to buy a SSL channel strip plug-in over the hardware unit
@@DanKeenMusic To be fair, there's an abundance of SSL modeling plugins, so because the market is oversaturated (no pun intended haha) there's more competition to lower prices. Whereas, Strymon, has more unique algorithms to offer that other reverb plugins don't necessarily offer, so because it's more niche, they can charge more
Well, SSL doesn't really model their plugins that well (Check Dan Worrall Videos). It's not always a fact that the most accurate software emulation will be with the original company.
Interesting video about the Violet EQ! I haven't got that unit, but I do like the X-Saturator and Channel Strip + Bus Compressor plugins. Hopefully he'll do a plugin doctor analysis of those too
Since this is just a DSP algorithm, I don't see why Strymon couldn't put the exact same algorithm into the plugin as in their hardware.
...also remember that Moog or SSL emulation is a whole different ballgame, because a reverb pedal is still digital. It's the algorithm in a box. They can just interpret the same code in the plugin. No need for analog component transfer curves emulations and such...
GREAT points! I'm a long-time Strymon customer who owns more of their pedals than I care to mention, and I still haven't even DEMOED the plug-in because I was so put off by the fact that the demo time is only 7 days -- that's ridiculous. Just about any other plug-in on the planet give you at least 14 days, if not 30. Bad moves by Strymon in their first foray into the software market.
I probably will never get this until it’s on a serious sale. I mean: valhalla is 50 bucks, even pro r and other industry standards are between 99 and 140 bucks.
Even the neunaber wet plugin was at 49 intro and 99 standard - and it’s fantastic.
For reverbs Liquidsonics are on BFriday sales. Seventh Heaven/TaiChi Lite/Reverberate 3 are as low as $50
Hi Dan - Great idea but silly price 😱 Will sell to Strymon fan boys but too little too late and too much competition. IMO of course 😊
Love the comments, Dan. I would definitely by the Moog or SSL over the Strymon since they've considered their market and what they can do for the market not just what the market can do for them. Thanks for analyzing these buying/marketing issues so well. Cheers, and Happy New Year!
I don’t think price is very much the issue.
Because it wasn’t very long ago that a certain sample library manufacturer offered amazingly high-quality sample library’s for an amazingly high price, and did not offer deals or discounts on their products until here recently.
For people who don’t already own the paddle it’s a benefit if you’re looking for that specific sound . As well as if people don’t have great I/O for their audio interfaces to run through a big sky this is really beneficial as well.
Yes, there are other plug-in manufacturers that do something similar and are cheaper and probably a better suited for the job
Stroman could offer a deal or discount as well as upgrade the software to fit the needs
(most reverb plug-ins are tempo synced
directly anyways, if you’re looking for the professional outcome, you have to dial it in with a calculator)
I can't help thinking that a lot of this is bourne out of the risks these companies face because of chip shortages, inflation / energy prices, rising wages (see Moog) and potentially and the difficulty of even manufacturing the previous two years. They need injections of cash and quick, and the first companies to release, will get the limited cash available; before it runs out. Noise Engineering were as usual, pretty quick on the uptake with that, and tested the water, with Reason plugins. Then bundle 1 with Basimilus (which they have and will sell plenty of anyway). For companies trying to currently sell hardware reverbs, and character processors/effects, I think it's a risky move. Because there was always a stubborn lingering perception, mistaken, that hardware was somehow magically better. And Strymon and similar benifitted from that mystique. But, here, they can't have their cake and eat it too. Though, Big Sky is maybe a unusual case, because it has two markets, guitar players (which will still always want a pedal). But synthesists loved it too, and if they absolutely had to choose, they prefer a plugin. I used to own a Big Sky, Specular Tempus and others, but now, I prefer the ITB options. Yes, definitely 7th Heaven, Valhalla. The Arturia FX plate. I do love Strymon Magneto in my modular to bits though, but there I want the CV control and the many hardware knobs ... that's more like an instrument.
Ugh. I've been waiting for this to become a plugin. That said... I've been waiting way too long. Strymon took too long bringing plugins to market, which should have been a no-brainer for a digital effects company (look at Eventide). And they could have done it BETTER than Eventide. I am sure the BigSky plugin is great, but at $200 for a reverb? Albeit fully-featured, it's too expensive. I am more likely to buy the pedal for live applications and go with Valhalla for recording.
Agreed. SSL fusion emulations are excellent and a worthy cheaper alternative to the hardware. I haven’t tried out the plug versions of the MF from Moog but these look great. As you said the incentive to try a plugin version has to be more attractive, and for £100 more you could probably get the bigsky pedal secondhand..
I think Strymon definitely need to go back and look at this and understand the plugin domain a little more…
I have purchased the Moogerfooger plugin because the pedals are unobtainable and I like to support Moog. I likely won't be buying the Strymon plugin, as I do agree that it is overpriced slightly, and there are already many other good reverb plugins available (Valhalla and Eventide immediately come to mind) that are priced much more affordably.
The Strymon pedals of the same generation are all the same inside anyway. There's no reason they couldn't have made one Pedal to Rule Them All.
Black friday to control them all !!😂😂😂😂
I don't get the moaning about the price. There are lots and lots of reverb plugins that sell for way more than 200 dollars from the likes of Eventide, UAD, SSL and many others. Valhalla plugins are VERY affordable for what you get, there is nothing else quite like them for the value so everything else is gonna look expensive by comparison. If Valhalla did not exist, 200 dollars for a reverb plugin with several algorithms would be a totally normal price.
I think boils down to the fact that the original pedal is only $479, so this $200 plug-in is less of a saving than it would be if you were to buy a SSL channel strip plug-in over the hardware unit
@@DanKeenMusic To be fair, there's an abundance of SSL modeling plugins, so because the market is oversaturated (no pun intended haha) there's more competition to lower prices. Whereas, Strymon, has more unique algorithms to offer that other reverb plugins don't necessarily offer, so because it's more niche, they can charge more
I hope they make DIG next.
Would you pay $200 for this plugin?
no :D
If shipped in a pedal, yes
I would wait for Black Friday ;)
hell no. hahaha
Not a chance.
Too expensive😂