Deep Sky Imaging with a ZWO ASI 224MC Planetary Astro Camera
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- In this video I try out the well known ZWO ASI 224MC planetary camera on a few deep sky astro targets. I capture the data using a WO GT81 on an HEQ5 Pro mount, using the Firecapture tool.
Very cool experiment. I think a lot of people wonder how these planetary cams, and especially one as popular as the 224, would handle such targets. Thanks for making the video!
A man of challenges. Experiment. Brilliant. The absolute best type of video available. A lot of people have these cameras. I love the results. Fine job sir. Enjoyed the video very much.
Thanks Garnett. 'More fun if it isn't easy.
The ZWO 224 is a very sensitive camera…great for EAA, small DSO and of course planetary….one could also use it as a guide camera….
Also this camera is very sensitive in IR and with an IR pass filter you can image and get great contrast on the Moon…This camera I will add has extremely low read noise….I have this versatile camera and highly recommend it.
This was a cool video. I started DSO imaging with an 8" F6 Newt and an ASI120MC. It was challenging, very challenging, but I made it work. Eventually I upgraded to an ASI174MM-Cool, but kept the 120 for guiding and planetary use. I was running into the same issue with PHD2 where it was trying to guide with the 174. I ended up just disconnecting the 174 while I got the 120 up and running with PHD2. Thanks for showing there's an easier way. On a side note, I like your channel because you experiment with different things.
Thanks. Lots of trial and error in our hobby. I’d like to get a cooled camera one day.
Great vid, thanks for testing this one out
I haven't done much imaging this year yet but have just bought a 224MC to use on my Skywatcher 80ED DS-Pro instead of my Canon 200D. I wanted to reduce weight and start using Astroberry on a semi-permanent rig. So having some initial settings and expectation of quality should remove the frustration I've been getting with first light on my previous setup attempts.
When I first started getting into astronomy, I only had a StarBlast auto tracker for a mount, so I bought a 224 because of it's speed. I figured since drift was going to be an issue for my tracker, I'd get a USB3 camera that could capture frames really quick. Needless to say, it didn't work as I good as I had hoped but it took way better pictures than the modified web cam I had and it did help me learn more about the process of imaging. Now I'm just slowly trying to gather better hardware so I can actually do DSOs. Earlier in the year I ran into a little cash and I replaced the auto tracker with an HEQ5 and a synscan wireless module for it and that was an awesome upgrade from what I had but now I need a good telescope because the one I (Gskyer 90mm) have was a gift from someone who had no idea what a good telescope was, let alone what one needs to image DSOs. To be fair, the scope takes great pictures of the moon but one can only image the moon so many times. Plus the CA on it and narrow fov is not ideal for imaging. It's better than what Galileo had, but he didn't have an HEQ5 or dublets or triplets in his marketplace. That said though, it's nice to see that the camera isnt completely horrible when paired with a good scope. It took great pictures of the moon, but you need to get an IR filter for it or everything is pink because it's geared for IR.
Yes it's a versatile camera that's good value. There's a big gap to the larger sensor "pro" cooled cameras that are designed for DSOs, so I wanted to see what a "planetary" camera could manage. The HEQ5 is a great mount, love mine. Clear skies.
Thank you for your video! I plan on picking this camera up to use with my WO Z61. Glad to see it works well for your particular set up. Cheers!
thank you for this video , at the moment im looking into a good all around camera that doesnt break the bank or in this case my wallet ,and your video its just perfect information for my pourpose ,thank you again
Hi Graham, great video. I've been curious how these planetary cameras perform with DSOs. Considering the cost of a dedicated DSO camera it's nice to see something more affordable can do a reasonable job. It's certainly makes this hobby a little more affordable.
Use a dslr, and use this as a guidescope cam
Yeah heard that astronomy can be expensive. Then you have a bunch of cloudy days and you can't wait for a clear night. Its one of the more expensive hobbies but if your smart you can save money.
@@geoffnash3098 " you're "
Great video my man. Thanks for the explanation and review of the item. Got a recommendation for it and spot on! Thanks for sharing.
Useful video. My new ZWO ASI224MC should arrive in a couple of days so looking forward to using it. Good to see that it can be used for small field of view DSOs, will definitely try and compare it to my DSLR.
Really nice captures, Graham - thanks so much for sharing. I'm glad to see you finally had some clear skies over there. :)
Thanks Jayling. Spring is on the way!
Love this camera, I use it on my skytracker with the tele lens you can get for it, great wide field.
I have this cam, but honestly for the popular easy target DSOs, I have a Seestar 50 which provides similar or slightly better images compared to this. Biggest win is how easy it to set it up and start imaging. Of course for serious images need a serious camera, IMX833, IMX585 type sensors.
yes but thats not the point of this video. You cant compare a single planetary camera against a heat seeking miniature sidewinder turret. The S50 is worth its money tho, considering what people achieve with it and its ease of use. Did you ever try your s50 in EQ mode on a wedge? should let you expose for a lot longer without problems.
only just found you on youtube and subscribed now. Wish I had found your videos a year ago as they are very informative. Not sure why you never came up on my searches.
Thanks for subscribing, hopefully you'll see some more videos when the darkness returns.
@@JenhamsAstro luckily i shoot narrowband but still have to wait till 11pm and only get 3 to 4 hrs max
Looking at getting this camera along with asiair mini and the Zwo mini guide scope to get started imaging. Good beginner camera.
I found this very interesting and helpful. Thanks!
Great! Im going to try the same with my ED80 and ASI290. Cheers
Many thanks for testing the ZWO ASI 224MC on Deep Sky objects. Now wondering which objects it would have been able to capture in the Maksutov with its smaller field of view.
Great Video Graham,Thats Crazy For Those Cameras,But I Like My 385,
Very good video👋
Had some luck using an ASI178MC for DSO’s recently. Certainly more noise and visible light in the corners but overall the images of smaller targets like planetary nebulae look pretty decent.
Very good!
just got the 385 will try that out since no jupiter at mo .
I Got That Last Summer,Super Fast,Your Going To Love It
Why 10 sec exposures? At least 30 secs is needed to minimize noise. Also at least 1-2 hours of total stacked time for light frames to get a acceptable result.
Here I am, trying to work out how to stack a picture of the same globular cluster you casually open the video with. I'm not having much luck yet. Curse you!
Thank you for the video, really interesting.
Thanks Duncan!
@@JenhamsAstro Your site and your UA-cam page is a wealth of information. Particularly enjoyed the Celestron C5 post and video. Makes you think about older equipment in a different way.
Duncan Taylor Thanks Duncan I appreciate it. The C5 had a certain something which appeals. I think it’s the combination of retro looks with solid mechanicals and good optics. My antique scopes look great and have some well engineered parts, but for actual Astro they are outclassed by anything modern. The C5 bridges that gap for me between “old old” and new.
@@JenhamsAstro I am consistently amazed at the low price of equipment that forty or so years ago would have cost a lot more for the equivalent. I used a Celestron NexStar 5E a few days ago (belonged to my Dad) to do some casual observing and although it's a ten-year old scope, the GoTo tracking was accurate, the optics were good and it was very simple to set up, even for some basic DSLR photography.
I can't even imagine what that would have been like many years ago and how much more money you would have had to spend...!
Duncan Taylor I know, amazing how much quality is available for relatively little outlay.
Was the scope out of focus? Images seem pretty blurry no? I'm new to this so apologies if I am missing something obvious!
Good video.....try using it regular next. Do 60s to 120s with zero gain to see how it works.
Thanks, i'll try longer shots next.
Great review! very encouraging results for owners of small telescopes. I am assuming that in order to get 10sec exposures you need to track the star, I am wondering how accurate the telescope polar alignement must be to get results like that... Thanks for the review and the nice images!
Thanks Nick, yes you will need to track - the 1 in 500 rule tells us the maximum duration before tracking is needed, for a given focal length. The accuracy required of polar alignment is a function of exposure length and the focal length of your scope. I have got decent 60s frames using a 1300mm Mak and a DSLR, but I was careful to set up using a polar scope in the mount.
Hello Graham, and thank you for the video. I just bought the ASI224, and intend to use it with my ASI Air Mini to do planetary, at least for the time being. I noticed ZWO wants me to download a driver for the camera "for windows" but I do not plan to use their ASI Studio or any software on a PC right now to image. Do I really need to download and attempt to install these drivers? It is not clear to me if I even need to do this. Are the drivers necessary for the camera to function on the telescope, or in a windows-based software program? Thank you.
My plan is to use this cam as my main planet and moon cam, and use it as a guidscope with my dslr for deep sky
Excellent video Graham! Experiments like this are right up street :) I especially liked the cigar M82 image, I thought that one in particular turned out great. Also the Owl M97 was very good. I failed miserably to image this target with the ASi462mc just last night. I don't think I was using enough integration time. Talking of which I think the gradient on your Owl nebula image might have been amp glow from 20 second exposures?
Thanks Chris, yes i as wondering about the amp glow. I'd like to have put more time into M81 but I'd already spent a couple of nights making mistakes with poor alignment and FC settings, so i settled for what i had. M97 was all but invisble on FC in a single 20s sub, and I'd probably go for an hour on it next time to reduce noise. Good fun playing around with it.
I have captured many DSO lately on my ASI 662, 678 and 224, but my ASI studio does not stack them as before, the master stacked image is black ? Does it need to be stretched or processed or is it just stacked noise ???
Am thinking about buying a ZWO ASI224MC. Do not know what I would need to control it. Do I need to buy a tablet, a laptop? And, what minimum RAM, on line storage, et cetera. Cables? Any advice appreciated.
Based on your experience, a refractor more suitable for the 224 for use in Deep sky (focal length, aperture, etc.) I would also like to use it on az-gti. Thanks
Refractors are simpler for astrophotography, and they don't need such a bulky mount as a reflector would. If you did have the mount, a large well collimated f/5 reflector can capture great images too. The camera can work on either. But you need to operate any mount in equatorial mode, so a wedge would be needed with an az-gti.
@@JenhamsAstro Yes the az-gti I would use it in equatorial mode, I haven't bought it yet but I would like it because it is a small mount that allows you to do astrophotography and is very portable ... I'm just undecided on the type of tube to match it
Hi Graham! So nice to see a video from you. What filter are you using on camera. Also, if you don't mind saying, what is the Bortle rating of you viewing area?
Hi Cindy, it’s an IR blocking filter as otherwise the 224 picks up IR I think. I’m under Bortle 4 skies on a good night.
I've found that having the gain as high as you have referenced, the stars although "in focus" become blown out... I've been running my ASI533 at a gain of 129 when using phd2 and guide camera and getting very sharp stars. I think if you reduce your gain you may get crisper exposures... Something to try :)
Thanks for the tip, I'll try that in future.
Hi Graham, did you saw the Omegon veLOX 287 C? It has 520 FPS. Maybe good for Planetary?
Hi Chris, I hadn’t seen that particular camera but i know the chip has been around in a few models for about 5 years. I’d have to dig into the specs to see how it compares with my 224 camera, but it seems to have larger pixels, and a higher price. As there don’t seem to be many posts online that may suggest it isn’t that popular? Sorry I can’t be more helpful without further investigation.
May I ask what kind of filter was attached in front of camera? Thank you. And thank you for great pics and instructions!
Thanks Jan, it had an IR cut filter attached.
Just bought this a month ago but havent had a chance to use it yet. Ive been looking at planets less than 4 months, so im new to this. I really like looking at the planets. So far all ive seen are Saturn and Jupiter. Glad this works with deep sky imaging. Is there a tuturial on how to set up the camera with the right settings for deep sky and planetary imaging?
I have looked at a few YT videos and looked for recommended settings in the forums but there is no single view (typical astro!). For planetary at least, try the gain at 80%, make sure the histogram is displayed and reduce the exposure until the peak is at somewhere around 60-70%. Dependent on the brightness of the planet and your scope size, you may have an exposure of 10ms or less (often a little longer though). Grab lots of frames (try for 10000). For deep sky the main difference is to use a much longer exposure and look out for noise. With the 224 this can be several seconds as shown in the video. I am no expert so trial and error is key.
Hi,do you connect the ZWO camera directly behind the Primary mirror?i have 462mc and i dont get clear images at all?i have celestron EvoHD8" with Alt-Az
I had to use an extension tube to allow the camera to reach a focus, with my scope this added about 50mm of extra lightpath. I suggest you try to find the right focus during the daytime, focusing on a distant object like a tree or building. Just make sure you avoid the sun. With an SCT it can then be difficult to re-acquire this same position, in which case try to work out where this camera's best focus is relative to a known reference when you have a diagonal and eyepiece in the scope, i.e. half a turn clockwise, 2 turns counterclockwise etc.
Hi Graham, great videos I've referenced them a lot when looking to buy into this hobby for the first time. Question: Have you seen, tried, tested the SVBony 205 for its budget practicality at all... it would be great to see what you think is achievable with one. There obs a reason why they are in the £70-80 bracket but as you seem to be all about budget I thought I'd ask..
Thanks. I tried the 205 a while back but had issues with bright targets which led to an odd green artefact in the centre of the frame. So I’d suggest looking at alternatives. The 305 gets a better write up but I’m not sure how much cheaper it is vs an 120MC.
the shots would really benefit from longer exposures. Anyway Im always surprised how expensive astro camera you have to buy to perform as well as a cheap second hand dslr. Unless you have several grand to blow on a camera, It really seems better to me to opt for a dslr or a mirrorless camera. Remove the filters on the sensor, cut a hole in the back of the body so the sensor stays nice and cool and prefferably 3d print some sort of a cover for the hole. Save the low pass filter 1 and 3d print a clip filter frame for it and now you have a camera that can be used for both astro and daytime imaging. Especially with something like the canon 600d, theres really no astro camera thats gonna beat that at that pricepoint. Only advantage of astro cameras I see personally is the easier intagration with all the software on a computer.
Feel free to point out if im wrong when I say this but I really dont think astro cameras make much sense unless youre looking for a camera for several grand. Like possibly fullframe dedicated camera territory.
This makes sense when you consider the scale at which they are produced. Id imagine company like ZWO makes a few high end cameras a month where as canon makes like thousands. Naturally the ordinary camera is gonna be a lot cheaper.
Im talking only from the perspective of deepsky astrophotography tho. It gets different when you consider the options for planetary or guide cameras. I dont see a way how you could utilise a dslr effectivelly for those aplications. If you know anything about a real possibility of using an old canon dslr as an actual guide camera tho, id love to know more about it 😁
Thanks for your reply. DSLRs do offer a lot of performance for the price - my 700D is still my main deep sky camera. The video is showing that a "cheap" planetary camera can give OK results with the right sensor, for people looking to take their camera out of its comfort zone. I'm hoping that cooled cameras get cheaper with time, until then I'll stick with the EOS. Clear skies!
First time yesterday, Zw0224. Connection problems and problem using ASIair studio capture program on jupiter. Is the included cable total crap ????
I’ve used mine with the supplied cable using Sharpcap and Firecapture with no problems. Worth a try with one of these- it might implicate or eliminate the cable.
Hello. What filter did you have screwed on the camera?
I used a ZWO IR cut filter.
@@JenhamsAstro maybe you can try this again with a different, high quality uv-ir cut filter? Your results showed IR bloat. I found that the zwo IR cut actually lets quite a lot of IR pass. Tested with 5 and 10mw IR lasers (780nm, 850nm, 980nm) and also a spectrometer with sunlight and an IR only webcam.
Hi Graham, great video and good to see you back, got me thinking if I could use my zwo asi120mc-s with my Skywatcher 72ed ds pro for deep sky, I always use my dslr but thinking maybe the zwo next time
Hi Lee, it's worth a try! I did some shots with my 120 and i'd suggest starting bright - like a globular, and keeping exposures shorter than i did with the 224, as the 120 is noisier.
@@JenhamsAstro hi Graham, thank you, I'll give it a go as always trying to push the boundaries on equipment
@@JenhamsAstro I m planning ASI 120mcs to image DSO with Samyang 135 . Is it possible?
Hi Jenham, that was very interesting, thanks. However, is there a low budget camera you would recommend? I have managed to capture a lot of deep sky objects with my DSLR and 127 Maksutov (as per your recommendation🙂, thanks) and am hoping to slide into planetary imaging soon without spending too much.
sorry Graham, thought your name was Jenham
Petra Hi Petra, good to hear you are capturing DSOs on the 127, I have a another video planned on this. For planetary the cheapest option is a converted webcam but depending on your budget I suggest you look at the ASI120MC. There are now lots of ZWO cameras and it gets a bit confusing, as the 224 and new 462 aren’t that much more than the 120. I have been impressed by the 224, but the 120 has been great as well. Choices choices...
@@JenhamsAstro Thanks, ...always very helpful👍
Planning on purchasing a SkyWatcher StarGate 500P 20" inch and using this camera, so can I ask anyone that might still be active on this vid or OP if that would work or what camera would be best with that telescope.
if you can buy an 20 inch telescope you can buy a more expensive camera that might be more suitable for dso
Hi Graham, Firstly many thanks for the videos I have recently bought a C90 MAK based on one of your earlier reviews. I had previously been using a long lens for my Olympus MFT camera to capture the moon and got hooked. I decided to get my camera set up with a telescope 'as a lens' rather than the other way around. So far so good am really pleased and have also snapped Jupiter & saturn recently, My question: I am now considering adding a ZWO 120 MCS (based on your website) and just wanted to hear your view- I am considering it as something in addition and looking to improve high res moon and the two planets so far. I dont want to ditch the MFT as its the reason I started but do you think I will see a large improvement to justify doing so?
Hi, I'm glad the videos have been useful. By moving to a astro cam/video stacking/wavelet approach you will definitely see improvement, particularly on the planets. You can't go far wrong with the 120MC-S but depending on budget I'd suggest also checking out a couple of other models in the (bewildering, to me at least) ZWO range. Firstly as per the video, the 224MC, but also the 462MC. These cameras offer higher sensitivity and lower noise. If you want to keep the budget lower, give the 120 a try. On the moon the reduced field of view of these cameras may lead you into producing a final image from a collage of stacked and processed images. Overall I don't think you will regret trying any of these cameras with the C90, and then if you upgrade the scope the cameras are still compatible. Hope this helps, Graham
Surely you're better off just using a DSLR for DSO, and keeping the 224 for planetary or moon 🌙 imaging ??
Yes I think so. It was an experiment to test the 224 outside it’s normal range of targets.
@@JenhamsAstro ok 👍
How about using a reducer to increase the field of view?
Yes that would work.
I bought a zwo533 realising it's not going to work to planetary and tbh I guess you really need 2 cameras and 2 scopes for 2 different things, I wanted to ignore that but sadly I guess that's astro. Selling a lot of my games to fund this hobby now :/ oh well, now I need to get a planetary one
Cheap it is not!
224mc here... what type of files should I live capture for dss? Tiff? Fit?
Hello Jenham
Which program do you use to take picture with your ZWO ASI 224?
Hello, I captured the data using Firecapture, stacked in Deep Sky Stacker and then made a few adjustments in Paintshop Pro.
Very nice results, what filter are you using?
Thanks. I used a ZWO IR cut filter only.
try 3 second rames on sharp cap
Hello Jenham,
Can this Zwo ASI astro camera 178 MC mounted on a tripod be used by its self without a telescope? A wifi Zwo ASiair Plus hooked to a high definition 5K Apple all in one would be used.
Application video is for 5,000 to 20,000 feet. Not for stars.
If correctly obtainable can a fixed setup using a Sony or Cannon low light lens of different focal length be attached?
Thank you,
Will
Hi William, I haven't tried this but I've seen others use various adapters (e.g. from ZWO, AST Optics, Geoptik) to attach DSLR lenses to ASI astro cameras, for astrophotography though. The spacing between the lens and camera is critical and can need spacer rings. I'm not familiar with a "low light lens" vs a standard lens - I assume it's one with a very fast f/ratio? So in principle I would say yes, but I'd suggest some more research to source an appropriate adapter. Cloudy Nights and Stargazers Lounge beckon.
@@JenhamsAstro HI Jenham, my bad. What I mean by a low light lens, is allowing more light to enter the cameras sensor in evening photography.
I would use a telescope but it would have to have a wide field of view and very low f/ratio to allow maximum light to the cameras sensor. If you have any recommendations since your into telescopes please advise.
Thanks.
@@williamkacensky4796 OK, well there are quite a few lenses that are popular, like the 14mm/F2.8 and 135mm f/2 lenses from Samyang/Rokinon. On the cheaper side you can try the Canon 50mm STM. I haven't used Sony lenses but I'm aware they have a 24mm and 12-24 options that get good reviews. Worth a google to see who is using these coupled to ASIs.
@@JenhamsAstro Hi, thanks for the reply. After doing more research only Cannon and Minolta have an adapter to use there lens on the ZWO ASI 178 MC. Most likely I will stick with Cannon.
Do these zwo cameras thread onto the telescope directly or do I need to get some adapters? Thanks 🙏🏻
They are supplied with a screw-in adapter that allows you to insert the camera into a 1.25" telescope focuser.
Do you use it as a guidscope??
So far I haven't but I expect it work well as a guide camera.
Hello Graham! Do you have an old Dolland telescope? what would be a 1820s Dolland brass telescope worth? 2inch lens, 3 feet long.
Hi Mike, I don’t have a Dolland but I have a Cooke. I don’t know enough to give you a valuation. I’d have to look for previous similar scopes from auctions and try to get an idea. Most old scopes are not worth that much I’d say - often nice to have as an object but not that valuable. Sorry I can’t be more helpful. Graham
@@JenhamsAstro Thank you!
What program are u using?
Firecapture
Hi there, i hope you can help me, i am about to buy this, how do i make it fit my celestron nexstar 130 slt please?
Hi, the camera is supplied with a 1.25" diameter fitting which then slides into the focuser of your scope instead of using an eyepiece. So it should just fit. A word of warning though - astrophotography isn't going to be easy with an 130SLT as the mount may be a bit shaky. It's worth a try with the moon and the brighter planets though. If you move onto another scope in future then you will already have a good planetary camera. Good luck! Graham
@Jenham's Astro thankyou for this, i have used my nikon with a 3x barlow before on my scope taken my first ever photos, so i am new to imaging to be honest, soon as i can master astrophotography i will be looking to upgrade to a bigger scope. Im just glad that my scope can track as it makes life easier haha many thanks 😊
No problem. The balance and hence shakiness issues will be better than with your Nikon as the 224 is very light.
Will this camera let mw watch live on my laptop as i move acros the sky
Yes and no. It does output live video but 1) the field of view will be very small so you will struggle to orientate what you see vs the sky and 2) you will only see bright-ish stars as you scan. The camera is at it's best when you capture and stack many frames. Apps like Firecapture and Sharpcap allow "live-stacking" which can enhance the view if you pause any scanning and enhance the real-time view. I'd say do not expect too much "wow" unless you grab a lot of frames - then you can take great "stills" of planets and some deep sky objects.
Hi Graham, I can't get this thing to focus. When you said you've got it connected via 2 inch photo adapter, do you have more details? I've tried going via diagonal and without just can't get it to focus.
Thanks
Hi Brian, my 2” adapter adds quite a lot of distance so I could focus with it and with the GT81 almost at the extreme “out” of its focus travel. Have you tried it during the day? Sometimes you can guesstimate how much extra back focus you need to add by hand holding the camera and moving it back out of the focuser. This is not a great method but should help you see if you only need a few more mm of travel.
@@JenhamsAstro thanks for reply Graham, yeah been trying all sorts including daytime. I was more curious about the type photo adapter you were referring to. It's wierd as the same scope and even guide/finder scopes work fine with the old 120mm mini. The 224 has a fisheye (or whatever) and that works fine so I know there's no fault with camera or scopes as such. I'll have another dabble, thanks again.
Brian Fraser That’s odd. I just measured the extra length that my 2” adapter and 2” to 1.25” adapter adds, and it’s about 75mm, if that helps.
@@JenhamsAstro thanks again Graham, think I need to invest in a set of calipers. Will have a look again later. All the best
Might need a little better focus.
4:36 Amp glow?
In the lower right? I think so.
The 10 second frames are to short
Yes, longer works better with this camera.
Trouble is field is small
Yes, but for a camera at this price point it does a good job if the target fits the frame.
Could you recommend the best entry level dedicated deep sky camera? Also in your opinion, would the 224mc be the closest thing we have to a jack of all trades? For an entry level price. Thanks for any info!
Hello, there are now a lot of ZWO camera to choose from in a small price range, but ZWO tends to push the more expensive, larger sensor cooled models for DSO. These aren’t entry level by my definition. The 224 is a very good choice for planetary and can turn its hand to deep sky, as per the video, but the small sensor and amp glow are limitations for DSO. But if your budget is modest it is great value and if you choose appropriate DSOs you can get decent results. You aren’t risking a lot of money really. Just my 2p. Next up to check out might be the 294mc, not cheap though.
@@JenhamsAstro Thank you so much for that reply. I think I'm going to get the 224 as the pics of dso in your video look great and Flo has them on deal. I'll be using a 10" OO F.4.8 1200 focal length. Thanks for the info!