Shows how much the Minister actually knows about the military. Calls QAMR a Division (5 to 6 thousand personnel) when it's a unit of several hundred on a good day
Shows how much you know when a division in most militaries is going to be 10,000-20,000. The 2nd NZ Infantry Div in WW2 was 28,000 when it shipped home from Italy.
@@iatsd NZ is not 'most militaries'. And WWII numbers bear no semblance to modern day ORBAT's, especially for a basket case Defence Force like the NZDF. Anywho, Little said they were going to QAMR, when QAMR operates LAV. Those bushpigs were going to the Loggies.
@@Motumatai3 Great post! Lovely hand waving and dancing around the reply! Now: tell me a military - any military in thw world - where a division is 5000 - 6000. I can wait while you come up with an answer.
@@iatsd More to the (NZ's) point, is show me a military in the world that considers 245 pers all ranks to be considered an Infantry Battalion...'cause that's what we got here right now!
@@Motumatai3 Not my problem: I didn't make the original claim and I'm not defending the NZ military in any way. I'm just pointing out you haven't got a fvcking clue what you're talking about in your OP
We are better off operating a fleet of MATVs or MRAPs than Bushmasters, they're around the same cost as the Bushmasters but the MATVs and MRAPs preform far better in places like Ukraine and Afghanistan.
Correction on the last part; The MRAPs and MATVs have shown to preform better in conflict zones like Ukraine and Afghanistan than the Bushmasters. They're more capable offroad, faster and better armoured.
@@NorthernValue The Australian Armys Bushmasters Have Extremely good Armour and can control themselves off road Really well, better then most MRAPS so i don''t know what you are talking about? They have even proven themselves as one of the best Armored Fighting vehicles in the world soooo.
@@TimmyT.86 the armoured pinnys were abit of a joke really. All the latest bushmasters come with front doors as standard now as well as larger rear door, bigger cabin etc. Pretty sure they've got a engine upgrade as well, at least hopefully we didn't cheap out on that haha
The mobility systems are Irish and the vehicle was designed by a Irish company for the Irish Defence forces back in the 90s licensed a company build a quantity of vehicles for the Irish Defence forces but ended up being entered into the Australian land 200 program instead in the mid to late 90s. The Irish company stayed with the involvement with the project till its completion in the early part of the notties..when the vehicles were delivered to the Australian Army and air defense.
NZDF has committed to providing a motorised battle group to an Aussie brigade under plan ANZAC. We have a surplus of PMVs over here in Australia, so I’d guess that it’s the amount to potentially deploy a battle group sized element, with any shortfalls in your numbers being made up by us giving you guys a few PMVs. Say you need 3 PMVs for a platoon then for a battalion you’d need roughly 30-40 for a battlegroup, depending on how you guys structure your infantry battalions.
@@robertjohnston8531 yeah the brigade would have an armoured element of either LAVs or Boxers as well as Abrams, as I was saying, not sure exactly how you structure your units but we really mainly use Cav for recon/fire support rather than troop transport.
Great to see these arriving in NZ, great piece of kit, and not just saying that becuase I am an Aussie, they are world class and have proven so in the field !! Maybe NZ should have a look at the Hawkei's as well 🤔
They will be, just look at how Australia have used theirs. Will be timely as well as the unimogs surely cannot have too much life left considering they were apparently "replaced" almost 10 years ago now with the MAN HXs and were deemed old then...
@@Motumatai3So then use a mog🤷♂️ these are not the mogs replacement, point being, they can, and have, been used in disaster relief, as the Australians have already shown.
the NZ military force is always focusing on self-defence purpose but this era requires extra. We need better immigrants and innovations to drive our productivity, merging between NZ and AU is the key of it.
That's not how that works -it's just an old meme that you guys keep echo chambering because it's an easy "solution". When you send criminals to the military; you weaken and compromise the military -the Americans did it with low level drug/theft/assault/etc and now you are more likely to find a gang member with military training than you are to find a non-gang member with military training. You don't put young low level criminals with life long or violent criminals, and you don't train criminals to think tactically, properly plan operations and effectively use weapons....
What size gun,,,put 50 plate ,,,horse shoe gun taret,,,,,if it does not spin right around,,,the rail will lift,,, remote control defence needs radar on some
Could mobilize a couple company of 200 with that safety with 3 vehicle for another 3/4 of a platoon, they break the platoon down into 4 command units suitable for a corporal to command each unit, each unit could easily double up as a star force group officers armoured vehicle system suitable for gun fight situation that are protection from IED , they drive faster than radar detect the ukraine point out , we are building another batch of them in Australia because of the ukraine situation left us without the agreed amount we'd safely keep so building more, really to replace the aging fleet in 2030 we'd probably do well to follow suit with what we have an change nothing that much unless we can improve systems it's something anti radiation missile can't target like a heat seeking sidewinder.its a good look for New Zealand I think
who made the decision not to get the variant with the remote turret, which ultimately protects the gunner? is that the same people who think we are still focusing on counter terrorism with the V-shaped hull? and the same people running NEA?
There is no variant with a remote turret, those are separate and is something added onto by the user country not fitted onto by the vehicle manufacturer. You will find those weapons on these are not from the bushmaster factory either and are in fact from the Trentham armoury.
@Reg regan exactly my point, they are factory..they are a waste of money without the remote turret aircon and all the other features that come along with them. you kind of missed the point there, but okay. they are making the same mistake that they made with the pinz.
@@nzred813 and you are missing mine, a remote station is something the user country fits not the factory, as in they don't come with them. They literally just got these, add ons are exactly that, literally added on. They have already done battlelabs with remote systems on the Pinz and MHOVs so will just apply that to these when needed. Being Australian built I would almost guarantee the aircon in these is on point.
@Reg regan these varrients ha e not just arrived they have been sitting in Trentham for some time. the bushmaster can be upgraded with the PWS. no pinz or mhov have or ever use the PWS system in nz. and as for these bushmasters, they don't have aircon in them (the C2 variant is the only one with aircon) because once again, the nz government made a bad purchase just like they did with the pinz and the 2.5 turbo diesel. but hey, what do I know? I only build them.
Struth Mate, you mean to tell me, your ANZAC bros across the ditch. Didn't gift them to you, what kind of "Spirit of Friendship" do you call that aye.😮
Waste of money, imagine how many hiluxes we could of got for 100million. Armed with tows or 30mm aa or mortars. Should of learnt from afghanistan. The taliban resisted the best army in the world for 20 years. We should take heed from them as we are small and will never be able to afford the cool toys like jet fighters etc. These trucks are based on fighting taliban with anti ied under armour. But the current war are using drones. Look up lancet drones or those shaheed drones.
Still plenty of landmines in use in Ukraine. A hilux would be destroyed easily. Over 40 of these were damaged in Afghanistan with no fatalities. PMVs still worth having, particularly if you are the one inside. Still need more anti-drone tech - maybe a lot more Australian Slingers - they don’t seem to have the answer yet in Ukraine but Ukraine just ordered 160 Slingers which can be fitted to most vehicles including hiluxes but I think I would like a bit more protection in a PMV
If china was unobstructed by third parties (NATO, various allies), they could take NZ in perhaps half a day. No submarines, no fighter jets, heavy cargo transports, no tanks, no destroyers, no long range missiles. Many countries with a similar population (Finland for example) punch well above their weight militarily but New Zealand is negligently underequipped.
@Waywind420 It's about Geo-Location more than population size. As you know Finland shares a border with Russia, and is a nation with a recent history of WW2 and Armed Occupation.
@@comealongcomealong4480 Yeah i agree. I still think New Zealand can and should be doing more...but they're passengers in this region and are completely reliant on the Australian military next door, who themselves are unprepared and reliant on the USA (some would say dependant 🙄)
@@Waywind420 It could work best for NZDF to specialise in a few disciplines to a high, international standard. They'll never manage to keep up with international developments across all aspects of defence. They're a low priority market for armaments suppliers. And I don't think the NZ population would support the percentage of GDP spent on Defense as seen in the US. /Watching their chopper pilots in action in the aftermath of Cyclone Gabrielle - that appeared to be a high level of expertise. Helicopters would be a sensible fit based on history, commercial uses, needs within NZ and further afield in the Pacific.
China isn't capable of projecting a strong enough military force to attack and take NZ, let alone sustain it over time. They've spent 50+ years preparing to invade Taiwan which is less than 50 miles from mainland China and it is still dubious whether they could manage it. You want military equipment to defend NZ ..... but from whom? What threat exists and for anyone that had the capability to project power to NZ and sustain it and had sufficient forces to invade and hold NZ, what is NZ able to afford to counter that? You've presented a solution/demand in search of a problem. That's not the way to runa a country or a military.
Electric is even better in a disaster - you can solar charge without needing outside fuel supplies to come in. Theoretically a tactical electric vehicle could be 100% autonomous for as long as it takes.
mobility vehicles sounds redundant, anyways this is basically an armored personnel carrier, usa made a crap ton of their version of these called the mraps to protect against insurgents, however they realized these behemoths are a big target and not very mobile and now their scrambling to get rid of them
Not really, they're just not in Afghanistan anymore so literally don't need thousands of them. Those, like these, still have their use in a modern military.
@@goodshipkaraboudjan I mean they have the same use as Australia has...to defend...last year the kiwis had to call over Aussie aircraft just for air support training...many kiwis want to see fixed wing return or at the least have attack helicopters. The government should represent it's people not act like they are the people's parents
Country can't afford the up keep of toys like that not enough workers paying taxes and goverment wasting what is paid of pretending to jmprove thing that never needed improving
@@lightforce3642Ukraine have lost 7 in combat. Only one crew were killed at that was due to an anti tank rocket hitting it. According to the Ukrainians they can take multiple RPG hits and survive
All vehicles can be "blown to bits" but not all occupants survive to tell the story. It all depends on the situation but then in saying that I would rather being sitting inside this than riding in a Unimog in any conflict zone, which is kinda the whole point.
Shows how much the Minister actually knows about the military. Calls QAMR a Division (5 to 6 thousand personnel) when it's a unit of several hundred on a good day
Shows how much you know when a division in most militaries is going to be 10,000-20,000. The 2nd NZ Infantry Div in WW2 was 28,000 when it shipped home from Italy.
@@iatsd NZ is not 'most militaries'.
And WWII numbers bear no semblance to modern day ORBAT's, especially for a basket case Defence Force like the NZDF.
Anywho, Little said they were going to QAMR, when QAMR operates LAV. Those bushpigs were going to the Loggies.
@@Motumatai3 Great post! Lovely hand waving and dancing around the reply! Now: tell me a military - any military in thw world - where a division is 5000 - 6000. I can wait while you come up with an answer.
@@iatsd More to the (NZ's) point, is show me a military in the world that considers 245 pers all ranks to be considered an Infantry Battalion...'cause that's what we got here right now!
@@Motumatai3 Not my problem: I didn't make the original claim and I'm not defending the NZ military in any way. I'm just pointing out you haven't got a fvcking clue what you're talking about in your OP
Nice! Big improvement from my day. NZ Infantry Veteran.39636. Malaya 61/63.
We are better off operating a fleet of MATVs or MRAPs than Bushmasters, they're around the same cost as the Bushmasters but the MATVs and MRAPs preform far better in places like Ukraine and Afghanistan.
Correction on the last part; The MRAPs and MATVs have shown to preform better in conflict zones like Ukraine and Afghanistan than the Bushmasters. They're more capable offroad, faster and better armoured.
@@NorthernValue The Australian Armys Bushmasters Have Extremely good Armour and can control themselves off road Really well, better then most MRAPS so i don''t know what you are talking about? They have even proven themselves as one of the best Armored Fighting vehicles in the world soooo.
Love New Zealand. From Australia😂
Will the NZDF be fitting out with other variants? I.e Ambulance and command?
Yes and yes.
@@regregan6852
Good replacements for the old pini😂. Love how yours have side doors to🤣
@@TimmyT.86 the armoured pinnys were abit of a joke really. All the latest bushmasters come with front doors as standard now as well as larger rear door, bigger cabin etc. Pretty sure they've got a engine upgrade as well, at least hopefully we didn't cheap out on that haha
Sigs are getting some special purpose ones as well
Bushmaster PMV's (their full name) are very good for frontline battle and flooded roads as their hydraulic system is a quite high military grade.
The mobility systems are Irish and the vehicle was designed by a Irish company for the Irish Defence forces back in the 90s licensed a company build a quantity of vehicles for the Irish Defence forces but ended up being entered into the Australian land 200 program instead in the mid to late 90s. The Irish company stayed with the involvement with the project till its completion in the early part of the notties..when the vehicles were delivered to the Australian Army and air defense.
She's a beast ♦️
These Bushmaster's are very solid, capable vehicles and a wise procurement, although the quantity purchased seems odd.
NZDF has committed to providing a motorised battle group to an Aussie brigade under plan ANZAC. We have a surplus of PMVs over here in Australia, so I’d guess that it’s the amount to potentially deploy a battle group sized element, with any shortfalls in your numbers being made up by us giving you guys a few PMVs. Say you need 3 PMVs for a platoon then for a battalion you’d need roughly 30-40 for a battlegroup, depending on how you guys structure your infantry battalions.
@@Key_highway Hmm, true. That makes sense. Cheers mate.
@@Key_highway Wouldn't that BG also include some LAVs?
@@robertjohnston8531 yeah the brigade would have an armoured element of either LAVs or Boxers as well as Abrams, as I was saying, not sure exactly how you structure your units but we really mainly use Cav for recon/fire support rather than troop transport.
Clearly better than the Bob Semple tank.
i swear to god the blokes name is actually simple but the kiwi accent changed it
The Bob Semple was the best tank of the war, not one combat loss.
Hahahaha 😂
Great to see these arriving in NZ, great piece of kit, and not just saying that becuase I am an Aussie, they are world class and have proven so in the field !! Maybe NZ should have a look at the Hawkei's as well 🤔
And some Hunter class frigates!
The V-Shape was a common feature of the bush fighting vehicles that were involved in the South African border war.
Ratals
is the weapon on top a little bit small? Im asking as I no nil bout them
Let's hope they are helpful during disaster recovery.
They will be, just look at how Australia have used theirs. Will be timely as well as the unimogs surely cannot have too much life left considering they were apparently "replaced" almost 10 years ago now with the MAN HXs and were deemed old then...
@@regregan6852 We don't need them for military we have aunties with jandals.
Far far heavier than a mog for true off road (disaster) transport, so will go far less places than a mog.
@@Motumatai3 Typical lack of foresight or just office staff in charge of finances again.
@@Motumatai3So then use a mog🤷♂️ these are not the mogs replacement, point being, they can, and have, been used in disaster relief, as the Australians have already shown.
They still need tracked APC's, along side these types of vehicles.
Nice. I’d suggest CROWS up top with 50 Cal or Javelin.
Aussie Aussie Aussie
Don't send them anywhere keep it in nz
As in don’t sell them, or don’t deploy them?
the NZ military force is always focusing on self-defence purpose but this era requires extra.
We need better immigrants and innovations to drive our productivity, merging between NZ and AU is the key of it.
im confused ,,,, when did we split
Unsinkable?
Great now send all the young ram raiders into the army for some real life discipline to sort them all out
what's your addy ?
That's not how that works -it's just an old meme that you guys keep echo chambering because it's an easy "solution".
When you send criminals to the military; you weaken and compromise the military -the Americans did it with low level drug/theft/assault/etc and now you are more likely to find a gang member with military training than you are to find a non-gang member with military training.
You don't put young low level criminals with life long or violent criminals, and you don't train criminals to think tactically, properly plan operations and effectively use weapons....
@diesel. No, the Army doesn't want the little tow rags to teach them how to behave.
Ok let’s do nothing .. that works the best
@@donbrashsux No, lets enable our justice system do what it's suppose to do. That works the best.
Didn't see much action in this report, may have been better to show a more in depth look at them instead of just going for a spin around the block
Not much protection for the MG on the roof!
they obviously opted out of the electro optical turret mounted .50 cal
should've been a 1 for 1 replacement.
They xan prance about and play fun games in those for years to come 😂.
What size gun,,,put 50 plate ,,,horse shoe gun taret,,,,,if it does not spin right around,,,the rail will lift,,, remote control defence needs radar on some
How many did NZ donate to Ukraine? Australia sent 90 with another 30 on the way.
Which vehicle are you talking about?
@@ketimarsh-solomon6679 He is talking about Bushmasters and being a smart arse referring to Australias donations of them to Ukraine..
Could mobilize a couple company of 200 with that safety with 3 vehicle for another 3/4 of a platoon, they break the platoon down into 4 command units suitable for a corporal to command each unit, each unit could easily double up as a star force group officers armoured vehicle system suitable for gun fight situation that are protection from IED , they drive faster than radar detect the ukraine point out , we are building another batch of them in Australia because of the ukraine situation left us without the agreed amount we'd safely keep so building more, really to replace the aging fleet in 2030 we'd probably do well to follow suit with what we have an change nothing that much unless we can improve systems it's something anti radiation missile can't target like a heat seeking sidewinder.its a good look for New Zealand I think
Where are the enemies aliens?
who made the decision not to get the variant with the remote turret, which ultimately protects the gunner? is that the same people who think we are still focusing on counter terrorism with the V-shaped hull? and the same people running NEA?
Probably the "same people" who procured the Aermacchi Jet Trainers, with out spare parts!
There is no variant with a remote turret, those are separate and is something added onto by the user country not fitted onto by the vehicle manufacturer. You will find those weapons on these are not from the bushmaster factory either and are in fact from the Trentham armoury.
@Reg regan exactly my point, they are factory..they are a waste of money without the remote turret aircon and all the other features that come along with them. you kind of missed the point there, but okay. they are making the same mistake that they made with the pinz.
@@nzred813 and you are missing mine, a remote station is something the user country fits not the factory, as in they don't come with them. They literally just got these, add ons are exactly that, literally added on. They have already done battlelabs with remote systems on the Pinz and MHOVs so will just apply that to these when needed.
Being Australian built I would almost guarantee the aircon in these is on point.
@Reg regan these varrients ha e not just arrived they have been sitting in Trentham for some time. the bushmaster can be upgraded with the PWS. no pinz or mhov have or ever use the PWS system in nz.
and as for these bushmasters, they don't have aircon in them (the C2 variant is the only one with aircon) because once again, the nz government made a bad purchase just like they did with the pinz and the 2.5 turbo diesel.
but hey, what do I know? I only build them.
Very nice 😊🥰🤣
Struth Mate, you mean to tell me, your ANZAC bros across the ditch. Didn't gift them to you, what kind of "Spirit of Friendship" do you call that aye.😮
Waste of money, imagine how many hiluxes we could of got for 100million. Armed with tows or 30mm aa or mortars. Should of learnt from afghanistan. The taliban resisted the best army in the world for 20 years. We should take heed from them as we are small and will never be able to afford the cool toys like jet fighters etc.
These trucks are based on fighting taliban with anti ied under armour.
But the current war are using drones. Look up lancet drones or those shaheed drones.
NZ doesn't have many civie Hiluxes, Rangers and D-maxes? You don't need barracks or mobile infantry battalions to fight asymmetrically.
The cost is you also live like the Afghanis for a decade or three after you are invaded.
Still plenty of landmines in use in Ukraine. A hilux would be destroyed easily. Over 40 of these were damaged in Afghanistan with no fatalities. PMVs still worth having, particularly if you are the one inside. Still need more anti-drone tech - maybe a lot more Australian Slingers - they don’t seem to have the answer yet in Ukraine but Ukraine just ordered 160 Slingers which can be fitted to most vehicles including hiluxes but I think I would like a bit more protection in a PMV
ERII nz military betta clean up your act in the blocks.
If china was unobstructed by third parties (NATO, various allies), they could take NZ in perhaps half a day.
No submarines, no fighter jets, heavy cargo transports, no tanks, no destroyers, no long range missiles.
Many countries with a similar population (Finland for example) punch well above their weight militarily but New Zealand is negligently underequipped.
@Waywind420 It's about Geo-Location more than population size. As you know Finland shares a border with Russia, and is a nation with a recent history of WW2 and Armed Occupation.
@@comealongcomealong4480 Yeah i agree.
I still think New Zealand can and should be doing more...but they're passengers in this region and are completely reliant on the Australian military next door, who themselves are unprepared and reliant on the USA (some would say dependant 🙄)
@@Waywind420 It could work best for NZDF to specialise in a few disciplines to a high, international standard. They'll never manage to keep up with international developments across all aspects of defence. They're a low priority market for armaments suppliers. And I don't think the NZ population would support the percentage of GDP spent on Defense as seen in the US. /Watching their chopper pilots in action in the aftermath of Cyclone Gabrielle - that appeared to be a high level of expertise. Helicopters would be a sensible fit based on history, commercial uses, needs within NZ and further afield in the Pacific.
@@comealongcomealong4480 Yea you're right, they'll never be robust in all military aspects so makes sense to specialise.
China isn't capable of projecting a strong enough military force to attack and take NZ, let alone sustain it over time. They've spent 50+ years preparing to invade Taiwan which is less than 50 miles from mainland China and it is still dubious whether they could manage it.
You want military equipment to defend NZ ..... but from whom? What threat exists and for anyone that had the capability to project power to NZ and sustain it and had sufficient forces to invade and hold NZ, what is NZ able to afford to counter that? You've presented a solution/demand in search of a problem. That's not the way to runa a country or a military.
Why are they not electric ? Because electric sucks in a disaster. Stop making it hard for normal kiwis to own 2nd hand diesels.
Electric is even better in a disaster - you can solar charge without needing outside fuel supplies to come in.
Theoretically a tactical electric vehicle could be 100% autonomous for as long as it takes.
You are right, i'm with you and so are all the transport operators and machine operators around the world.
@@badchefi 3 months of rain in the bop and east coast. None is buying electric vehicles in rural NZ open your eyes.
Military electric is hybrid, nothings just electric alone… batteries weigh too much
@@f1reguy587 you forget the millions of fully electric cars and trucks used everyday.
mobility vehicles sounds redundant, anyways this is basically an armored personnel carrier, usa made a crap ton of their version of these called the mraps to protect against insurgents, however they realized these behemoths are a big target and not very mobile and now their scrambling to get rid of them
Not really, they're just not in Afghanistan anymore so literally don't need thousands of them. Those, like these, still have their use in a modern military.
Irish technology protecting lives throughout the world.
Ohok
Did they pay for them or leach them off Australia as per usual?
What has NZ "leached" off Australia out of interest?
When will nz get tanks and if not some fixed wing fighters...some Tiger attack helicopters
Australia is retiring the Tiger for a reason and NZ just has no use for them.
@@goodshipkaraboudjan I mean they have the same use as Australia has...to defend...last year the kiwis had to call over Aussie aircraft just for air support training...many kiwis want to see fixed wing return or at the least have attack helicopters. The government should represent it's people not act like they are the people's parents
Country can't afford the up keep of toys like that not enough workers paying taxes and goverment wasting what is paid of pretending to jmprove thing that never needed improving
What a waste of tax payer $$$ in our current economy I believe that cash should of been used to help people in nz,
New Zealand soldiers are being helped by these. Or don't New Zealand soldiers count as people?
Seen lots of them blown to bits in Ukraine, there are rubbish
Point to single example of that. Any example will do. The Ukrinaians seem to like them and have asked for (many!) more.
Lots of them blown to bits in various parts of the world by mines/IED's but everyone inside usually gets to walk away from it.
@@mistersmacky Not from the ones on the Ukraine battlefields ,totally destroyed by missiles ,artillery and drones..ied's possibly
@@lightforce3642Ukraine have lost 7 in combat. Only one crew were killed at that was due to an anti tank rocket hitting it. According to the Ukrainians they can take multiple RPG hits and survive
All vehicles can be "blown to bits" but not all occupants survive to tell the story. It all depends on the situation but then in saying that I would rather being sitting inside this than riding in a Unimog in any conflict zone, which is kinda the whole point.
These are only good for civil up risings and repressing civil conflict there used more in south axrica slums then battlefeilds 😮
So Australia and the Netherlands (amongst others) were slumming it in Afghanistan?🤔
I want to be in an NZ Military and serve the country and people, any female with NZ Passport or residency to marry me?
They remind me of seeing South Africa on tv during apartheid.🤔
Shouldn't they be painted rainbow colors and flying a CCP flag?
LOL
I LOVE SEEING THE GOVERNMENT WASTING MY TAX MONEY
Not as much as you love emojis.