EDIT (9/26/24): Nondi has started using they/them pronouns. I used she/her in this video in reference to them, so keep their updated pronouns in mind when regarding them further. Also, I've seen some people claiming I'm a minor in conversation about my video, so i should clarify that I am not. I'm 19, baby! This is all I'm adding for now 🫡 good lordy EDIT (9/12/24): Thank you to all who have let me know about Nondi’s most recent livestream and livestream thumbnail. I have not watched the full VOD, but I have seen the thumbnail and… obviously, I am not okay with it. Not in the slightest. That being said, it’s very clear to me that they're having a mental health episode of some sort. I’m hoping after that livestream they'll take some time off the internet and not entertain this controversy anymore. I’m disappointed with her actions, with her portrayal of me, and with how she’s handled everything, but at the end of the day I want her to be mentally well, and I feel bad that I contributed anything to the deterioration of her mental state. I still stand by everything I said in this video. I still think she’s wrong for misgendering the larger creator (and continuing to justify it). But I think this will be the last thing I’ll say regarding this video and OwONekko. If anything else happens, I’m not gonna address it (unless I feel like I REALLY need to). Again, don’t go and harass Nondi. Don’t be nasty to anyone. Take care of your mental health too. . . . . . . . . A few more notes here! I changed the title of this video from “How to Lose an Audience’s Trust - OwONekko’s AI Art Stance and How it Harms Artists” to “OwONekko’s Generative AI Stance and How it Harms Artists” because I felt like that was a more concise and less offensive way to market the video. I also want to say I do NOT think Nondi is a bad person for using and liking AI for the reasons they do, I just disagree with their reasons, and I should have been more clear about that. They're entitled to their opinion about AI as much as I am entitled to mine. I may go here or on my insta to say a few more things regarding this situation if anything else happens, but I’m not going to make any more video content because I don’t want to egg on the people that have been relentlessly harassing Nondi because of my video. Genuinely, I feel awful about that. If you have anything to say about this discourse, keep it on MY video and off of their twitter/ UA-cam page. They've seen all the arguments, criticism, and nasty shit that’s out there. I may have criticized them for blocking certain users in my video, but at this point I think that course of action is 100% justified. If I had known this video was going to be shown to over 200,000 people in less than 48 hours, I would have been a lot more clear and less reactive with how I expressed things in this video. I’ve never had a video perform like this one did.. like, genuinely, I thought this would be watched by the people already in this discourse and MAYBE just a few others. It was not my intention to bring so many new eyes to her channel, especially in this light, but that’s what happened. As for the transphobia claims, they say it was an accident and will not repeat this mistake going forward. They haven't apologized for misgendering the creator, which I absolutely disagree with, but they've made it clear they don’t stand by what they originally did. (that being said, I am not trans or queer, so whether or not you want to support them for this going forward is completely up to you. Just don’t go and be a bother to them.)(edit: they have continued to justify their misgendering the larger creator so idek anymore) I’ll edit this comment if I have anything else to add, but for now that’s all I have to say.
If you read the comment replied she did in the community post, she instantly just lie and went back on everything. She hasn't changed a bit, which is very disappointing
You are fine, you are ok. I get where you are coming from in this statement and I apreciate the self reflection. But one thing to be mindful of is - Gen ai is a hot topic right now. - anything negative will often skyrocket in views. Even still, you meant well. I was there when it all started and and have been following it her for a while. (I unwatched after the ai video doubling down because I don't support people who use it on PRINCIPLE.)I still agree with your statements. Even if you got sassy here and there: - you weren't rude. - you stated how you respected her stance. - you simply debunked a fair amount of what she said. She was dead wrong on a lot of this and the transphobia was inexcusable because she doubled down on it and continued it. Even after being continually corrected. Don't take this to heart and I look forward to your artwork. Sorry things are going a little wild rn.
I'm pretty sure they were being facetious, not accusing with any sincerity. Seems to me they believed themselves to be "giving back the same energy" because they, in fact, never said the AI was "GOOD" as the thumbnail image suggests. They clearly view themselves as having a more "neutral" stance. Generative AI, is, in fact, a tool. However, we live in a worse timeline, where it is exploited, most egregiously by corporations, but on the individual level as well, in ways that harm artists and their livelihoods. Separating these facts in favor of the simpler, easier, more comfortable stance that allows them to have their spoofy fun without facing the guilt/ implications of supporting the scummy companies that create these unethically sourced programs, is something a lot of people are going to frown at, for good reason. So yeah, they didn't say AI was GOOD, but they took a "neutral" stance which, in the current climate and situation, isn't exactly feasible. Further, their actions and words in support of the personal enjoyment makes it easy to extrapolate their statement into the one used in this video's thumbnail. After all "Ai is good." is gonna grab more eyes than "Ai is just a tool, and is ok for personal fun stuff and I shouldn't have to think about all the icky ethical trash that everyone is so tired of dealing with anyway. Let me have fun, dangit." So, they clapped back by ALSO "saying stuff that was never said"... but whereas Jou here made an oversimplified slight exaggeration of an actual take/ belief for the thumbnail, then properly presented and examined the take throughout the video itself, Nondi was just... out of pocket, out of line, offensive, rude and wrong, taking things into a territory which I have little doubt actual bigots has likely already brought up in comments or DMs once the backlash started, but absolutely had no place in the actual argument. So yeah... not a serious accusation. Just, unfunny, unthinking, inconsiderate, messy "clap back" that doesn't work. That's... better? (Really not, lol)
@@Mai57 if nekko was actually neutral on AI, they would not use it and would not have such an outburst and insult everyone that hoped Nekko was okay and to take a moment to rest and thing and wished them well because the fans were and still are worried about them. plus it's not about the AI anymore, it's about the poor reaction from Nekko and how they overreacted to polite criticism that in no way was meant to insult her . Yes i do understand there are scumbags still attacking her, but those people are either too young to understand how that is not a way to go about this drama or too oblivious and hyper obsessed. which by the way, is a thing on both sides, but even their actual fans understand that what Nekko is doing is just... not healthy for anyone, including her. They had a childish outburst and everyone saw how it really is not healthy for them to react this way and neither was it the right way. someone on a neutral stance about their use of an abused tool is not what Nekko's actually is. theirs was hyper aggressive and defensive to a point of trying to find a reason to be angry that really wasn't there in the first place.
@@marshmeowlow I can't help but get the vibe you didn't quite read all of what I said. 😅 There's a reason I kept putting the word "neutral" in quotes. But thanks for the extension on why the "neutral" stance they take isn't "feasible" as such.
her response really shows what kind of person she is. she's either completely missing the point or she knows exactly what shes doing but doesnt care. if its the former its still shitty because she refuses to listen
Yeah there's a difference between doing something wrong out of ignorance, but actually be willing to listen why what you did was wrong and apologize and try to be better, and d acting childish, refusing to accept any sort of valid criticism and correction
It doesn’t help she’s constantly hiding behind comments defending her both as comments themselves and under replies on comments of genuine criticism (referring to her ai playlist vid as she turned off comments on the main video defending ai), also liking them to kind of overshadow the overall criticism to make them look like they’re being “condescending” and “mean”. Extremely disappointing and honestly childish ☹️
AI art is NOT art Art is meant to be an outlet for creativity and feelings. AI has no feelings, AI does not create, it recreates. And AI should never be considered as an alternative to replace artists
@@wvn9957 it can be useful, but it would definitely help if the artists they were stealing from consented and were compensated. also if it were more regulated. wanting some form of restriction over ai 'art' dosent make you conservative
AI "art" is essentially just an AI generated image, just like how a generated realistic landscape isn't "AI photography". art1 noun 1. the expression or application of *human* creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
Ai art is art , art doesn’t need feelings because art is creating something but your right ai doesn’t create real creator is the person behind the screen who imagines the concept and types the words
AI would be useful. If they werent promoted to any type of art form 🙄 corporation saw it as "easy way out" and "cash grab" that's why artist hate AI usage not AI itself
@@lovediedin2009 It is for real so weird that she's using "being her authentic self" as a reason to use AI while denying a trans persons identity... She could at least keep her own logic consistent lmaooo 😭
Yeah that's like if someone texts you a full blown novel saying they poured all of their feelings in that message and "that's the true them" and then you find out it was written by chatgpt, like you didn't pour a single feeling😭😭
I am so glad I wasn't alone in feeling weird about her response video. Why assume we only have these opinions because we follow bigger artists and not because we already know how harmful generative AI is ourselves? Encouraging people to find their own stance and morals then subsequently silencing those you don't agree with is certainly.. a choice
Fr, She encourages having other people make their own opinions off of the information they see but when that opinion just so happens to be different from hers it's suddenly wrong because if they disagree with her they're also disagreeing with her "true self" This entire video wouldn't have happened if she could've just took the criticism like a champ, she must've known she would've gotten criticism about her ai opinions since she's in the art community but shes acting so childish about even people politely pointing out her bad behavior
Is everyone else seeing OwONekko’s live right now? The thumbnail is straight up horrible. Even if she’s clickbaiting by calling you racist on it, the drawing is just mean and cruel. I’m sorry you’re going through this, stay strong 💕.
@@PassedFlowers People were telling her to just stop the stream exactly because of this. Small update, but all Nekko is doing in her stream is drawing the comments of the “haters” in said stream, making fun of it, and trying to act like a “troll” to show the situation doesn’t affect her. It’s really sad to see considering the creator of this video was nothing but polite towards Nekko . Let’s hope all of the people involved in this can find peace, because goodness, Nekko’s rude response really wasn’t needed and made this situation worse.
First it was the Applejack slander... Lesson learned; Applejack haters are people haters, so much for being authentic when she's literally the element of honesty
The thing she said in her original video about how “so what if ai is stealing your art? There’s nothing you can do about it, so use it” was what got me. No ones advocating for ai to go away; that’s not realistic, they’re advocating for regulations and laws so that it can’t blatantly steal others people’s art and not compensate the og artists or take away creative jobs. It’s also just a really defeatist take that I don’t agree with
Also, that's not true. AI can go away. If it isn't making money, if laws are put in place to protect people's work and the planet (as Gen AI use a ton of energy and harm the environment), it will go away. Companies aren't going to keep around a tool that doesn't bring money in.
@@veinfish the older model was proven not to work in a small percantage of cases. The current model has not yet been cracked nor does it look like it will anytime soon
It is a take either for people who were looking forward to this tech and want to seem as if they care, or people who tried to fight it but gave up and now willingly chose to become part of the problem - don't know which one is worse. People often forget about the strength of the individuals forming in groups - if not for that we wouldn't have laws as we have now to the benefit of the common folk. If one's take is "we can't stop progress" then you are bound to be broken by its cogs no matter if you use that progress or not, as the endgame winners are those who set up those cogs in the first place. What is realistic to do is to put down the AI kool-aid and not use it, advocate against it, don't buy products with current gen corpo-AI that is being pushed, and educate people about the good AI that actually IS being developed for the benefit of common folk, but is often forgotten. In the end technologies stay only as long as they are profitable or useful to any significant level. But should the narrative become unfavourable to an extent in which mentioning AI causes to lose clients - which is currently happenign - then the tech will fade away at least in some capacity. What's more, we can see the trend of rising distrust against new AI and services & products losing their appeal at the mention of AI, so it's not an unrealisitc thing.
I think her main problem is refusing to understand why something is harmful to other artists and then trying to act like she is “breaking the mold” by claiming that she’s not allowing others to stop her from doing what she wants to do. It’s just very immature and disappointing from a viewer and fellow artist. In addition, her saying to not let others stop you from being your authentic self while constantly misgendering another artist is very hypocritical. Also, legally some states (in the US) are advancing in AI laws to make AI generated music or to replicate real life music artists ILLEGAL. Especially in states where the music industry is a very big thing helping their economy. While it could be better for labels to make AI music without having to pay the artist, AI music is harmful to the MANY people that it employs to make the music.
I think I'm most surprised by the states trying to make it illegal. I don't expect much from america, I never should've from the beginning, so to see at least some states doing something decent for once is a pleasant surprise.
@Such_A_Silly_Willy I believe the "larger creator" owonekko was referring to goes by he/them yet nondi kept calling them she/her despite numerous corrections
@@trashbot.3533 It's unfortunate, but no amount of lashing out will stop progress. The sooner an artist gets with the times and adapts to incorporating AI into their workflow, the better it will be or them in the long run. There's also nothing wrong with finding a job that actually pays and sticking to being a hobbyist, which is what I ended up doing.
@@Karv3r It's understandable where you are coming from. Technology has always proven to destroy and then create more jobs. Despite this argument, ai art does not seem to improve anything aside from creating bare bones concepts. It does not teach proper anatomy, lighting, or color theory and the recycled ideas may at times be a disadvantage for artists. The only upside seems to be time. Though no doubt such a technology will only improve with time, be careful that it may begin to reach beyo nd art. Not to fearmonger or anything, but it certainly feels like the more it progresses, not even a "proper job" will be safe.
@@keithflippers4429what do you mean? If you mean, ai companies could possibly use a model that didn't steal and therefore using it wouldn't be stealing sure. But if using a company that steals you are essentially the accomplice. You're receiving stolen goods. Even if you use those stolen goods to make something else out of them.
@@keithflippers4429 If the Ai is not created ethically, it cannot produce anything ethically. It doesn’t matter how you use it, you are encouraging Ai and are essentially saying you’re okay with art theft.
And there are some AI bros says that because it copy different features from different artwork, and the OG artwork was posted pubicly so in their words it's "not stealing" like AI bros are just clowns and insecure 🙄
even if it wasn't stolen and the models were SOMEHOW ethically created, it wouldn't be authentic still. If it is not made with your hands, it has none of your character, especially if every single person giving the same prompt in the same model can replicate it in seconds no effort. What's so special about it then?
This is quite shocking to me as I only casually watched her UA-cam shorts. To find out she approves of ai art and turned off the comments on her ai videos shows how sensitive she is to criticism.
Bro i saw owonekko’s thumbnail for her live and she’s just acting so immature and the whole live was immature..💀 Why is she drawing the hate comments on the video and trying to be funny why did she even mock you in the thumbnail you weren’t even hating on her
Ok, is no one gonna point out Nondi's line "Educate yourself on it on your own time. Don't let people tell you how to feel about it. You need to figure that out for yourself." is actually pretty scary when you think about how she's been acting in response? Normally that could be taken as 'take the time to research a topic and don't rely on word of mouth alone.' and that would be a good thing. This ain't that though. This sounds like her saying 'don't let others educate you on something. no one has the right to tell you you're wrong about what you've learned or what you stand by.' That's a seriously dangerous way of thinking cause learning something yourself has a chance for bias viewpoints or using untrustful resources that seem ok at a glace. There's a difference between ignoring opinions and ignoring those who have learnt differently just because they don't see it the same way as you.
Exactly, plus the things she says just perpetuate the idea that everyone who criticises you just wants to cause drama and hurt you. Which is harmful because it leads people to being defensive of themselves rather then their opinions: It's not about discussing *what's* 'right' anymore, it's about discussing *who* is right, which just makes the conversation unproductive and hostile for no reason
yea she isn't even trying to be receptive. Like I was gonna give her the benefit of the doubt and maybe think that she was just heavily misinformed about what ai actually does and why it's bad. But when you don't even try to listen to people who are being respectful, who are *trying* to extend an olive branch to you is when you just honestly don't deserve to even be heard out. She's just being childish and is putting herself in a bubble with a bunch of yes-men and people who either don't know or don't care that ai art cannot be used without stealing from others. I don't think she'll even care if it happens to her maybe. It's just pitiable
@@marshmallow927 I just wanted to say, you stopped me from writing a long as hell comment to a different reply cause you took my thoughts right out of my head and put them in a short and sweet way -I'm way too wordy for my own good sometimes- . This is why I didn't see her advise in a favorable light. Like if she wants to ignore info when it was kindly given to her, that may be her m.o., but we can for sure criticize how she handles it and point out any red flags we may see along the way, as her attitude can play just as an important role as the viewpoints themselves. Her advise when combined with her actions show how harmful that advise can be to those that still follow her.
“Ai isn’t hurting anyone!” The animation industry has completely flipped. Many studios aren’t hiring opening positions because they’re filling those positions with ai. So the job I was working towards my entire life is practically impossible now. I don’t know what to do. I’m not going to art school like I planned, and I feel obsolete. Oh, but I guess that’s my problem. I just have to “catch up” and “be better”.
As someone who genuinely took interest in her content/her as a creator, it was extremely disappointing how she decided to handle this topic. She already knew beforehand that she will receive backlash/people stating their OWN opinion but would shut people down saying "we aren't her fans if we don't agree with her opinion" type of statement. What ticked me over the edge was the transphobia and the fact her partner was saying that people were making up the transphobia stuff 💀
the logic that "bad people will always exist so we should just let them be bad!" irks me sm "there will always be tracers" yeah so we call them out and educate them
Was a recent fan of hers, the lack of self-awareness is AMAZING Ok uh edit: correction, I discovered that she was in the animation meme community and I had been following along all this time but didn’t peep the shift cuz I left the community early… small world 😀 Double edit: that new thumbnail she made is diabolical I am so sorry
seriously, i don't go here and just happened to stumble upon the video here but like, this is serious levels of density and lack of self-awareness. damn.
I was subbed for a month now, no longer am. What made me leave is that ignorant lack of self-awareness, and a hypocrite on top of that! People like that are not worth arguing, so best is to leave.
@@nitz_o She didn’t say she wanted a discussion (if you watch the actual controversial video, you would know that) sorry to sound rude. I just am kind of in the middle of this because she’s not a bad person trying to defend ALL things ai and a lot of people in the comments are kind of treating this like she’s getting canceled
@@Dead_0nix yeah but she’s keeps preaching “be yourself:3” but when people are letting her know how they feel and asking questions. She deletes them, it’s hypocritical and dubious. Hell, making a video like that you should expect discourse and discussion and of course she didn’t outright say that, but she was definitely encouraging it.
I remember her talking about how "if you're scared of ai then you're just scared that ill be better than you and that's a you problem." This is a very shallow idea to have about ai people aren't scared about it being better, people are scared of CEOs and executives not paying artists and losing jobs. We just a big rally this summer with some of the biggest names in animation standing against ai
Exactly this.. she seems to forget that artists are shit scared because of both reasons. One day (which might be soon), companies will stop hiring more artists and use ai instead. Prime example I've been seeing on my tik tok ads IS an AI movie, fully voiced by ai and the animation is just ai alone. We've already come so far that ai is able to do that.. imagine what it can achieve next year.
@@oxygengas5082remove your profile pic. If you think ai is better then artists then you shouldn't have yourself be represented by those you disrespect.
I'll admit, I'm really not surprised by this kind of behavior. A little while ago in her Hazbin Hotel redesign video, she had a take that being mentally unwell and not doing anything about it made you a bad person. This left me with a bad taste in my mouth, especially as someone with multiple disabilities-- a mental illness or disability alone isn't something that makes you bad, and doesn't automatically mean you will hurt someone if you have it. Being depressed and not being able to do anything about it, having ADHD and choosing not to take medication or other forms of correction, or other examples should not be considered some evil thing, unless someone is explicitly making the decision to harm another person with it-- then those actions would be bad, of course. I felt that the way the video discussed it was really distasteful and generally made it seem as though someone's mental health somehow determined their worth. I tried to bring this up as a concern, not saying that was what she believed but that the way she was discussing it made it seem that way, and her arguments back were...accusatory, not listening to anything that I had said, and acting as though I was trying to attack her for her opinions. I tried to discuss things further but after a couple of responses it became clear she wasn't really interested in actual conversation about the topic, so I gave up and let it go, since I am by no means someone who has enough reach to really do anything about it. Her supporting AI was still a surprise, but having her act this way in regards to how others respond to it just echoes a lot of that attempt at communication that I made a month or so ago. I wish that things were being handled a bit more gracefully and it's upsetting to see someone I looked up to and was inspired by treating other people in her own fan base this way. The purposeful misgendering as well as frankly gross response to this own video and Twitter comments makes me feel awful.
@@kumotacloudz I know :( She tried to make the argument that she has BPD, which had caused her to act out in ways that harmed others and that treating that BPD was the only way for that to stop...but my sister and my two partners all have BPD, and most of them have gone untreated for a large majority of their lives due to not having the resources to do so. Despite this they have made every effort to ensure that they look out for others, learn and change if they ever do end up accidentally hurting someone, so not having treatment in no way determines how good or bad someone may be that has mental health related issues. She kept bringing up that if your disability is hurting another person or causing someone else problems and you don't do anything about it then it has to make you bad, but in all honesty that part Really doesn't feel great either because...well. disabilities Do cause people issues, whether you like it or not. I have fibromyalgia, my chronic pain makes it so that I many times cannot get up to do things. I have to rely on my partner and sister to do a lot of things around the house or help get things for me. I know in some ways this is a detriment to them and causes issues, but they also choose to do so because I literally can't undergo treatment-- fibro just doesn't have a reliable treatment or cure, and we don't have enough money or resources to constantly go back to a doctor to try to adjust medication or find alternative ways to "solve" my disability. Does that make me a bad person, then, under that logic? It's just hard. I don't think she truly believes that but when she takes such a hard stance and refuses to budge, reword or rethink how to state it, I feel concerned that fans of her may pick up these ideas and apply them to themselves or others.
@winnielmao I also have BPD, as in borderline. I've heard people refer to both as such and was wondering which she had. Thank you for the clarification
With her whole “don’t let others police your self expression/interests” argument, it’s like she’s trying to equate this situation with cringe culture, which is just… no. There’s shamelessly writing self insert fanfics and making edgy OCs, and then there’s willingly supporting an unethical practice that has done more harm to artists and even the environment than good.
@@DoDo-dq5lx I doubt they’d keep putting money and time into an “industry” people are purposefully ignoring. It’s bad for business, if no one wanted generative AI, no company would bother making it better. Unfortunately, that’s not the case in our world today.
Hey its me. Im the Magical Cat Girl. I told her that her response to me wasnt kind or emotionally intelligent to somone who was being respectful to her. And she just posted another hurtful meme image
Im also glad you mentioned the environmental impact. Art theft is an important topic for AI but not enough ppl talk about the environmental DEVASTATION using it causes bc of the amount of energy it requires to run
Imagine giving someone genuine criticism and getting a meme response. Geez. I used to watch her now I think I might just unsubscribe. I hate people who use ai for they own gain.
It's sadly not uncommon how much people miss the point of *why* people dislike generative AI. Generative AI is a weapon, no more, no less. It's constantly abused for crimes and scams, people have already generated revenge p0rn & CP with these things due to it learning incredibly fast and, even scarier, *well*. G-AI has made so many jumps upwards since the internet was introduced to the concept through AI generated "artworks". Artists and other people don't hate all AI systems simply for existing. It's generative AI that is actively harming people, not only in the creative world. I've seen generative AI being used to trick people (e.g simulating voices from loved ones) or to scam people. Generative AIs data is scraped without any permission from the internet. It scrapes artwork, photographs, voice samples, songs, anything it can use to make something from it. If a data bank was made with ethical sources (e.g owners being asked to use their works) that is one thing. But the main generative AIs just steal stuff. As an artist this is just art theft. Why is it okay if a cooperation steals our creative works we pour hard work in, wether it be art, photographs, voice acting or music but if a person steals art it's suddenly worse? I'd rather be angry at the AI company mass-stealing art than some person in their bedroom right-clicking and downloading my stuff for re-upload. Yes, both is bad, but at least the person is a meanie and the AI company makes money from this without ever paying the people back they've stolen from. People had their voices stolen (AI voices/music), their artwork, they photographs, their original movies, stuff they pour training & hard work into just for some company to use them free of charge so people who don't want to pay creators for contributions can generate their anime images.
About that comment about illegal stuff being fed into prompts, this why I don’t like AI, because people might reference that stuff sometimes knowing that it’s in there and use that for their works, yet they’ll still say it’s one of the more ethical uses since it’s not *directly* using it. I’ve really wanted to say this, but out of fear someone might get an Idea, or even at best, try to spread the word without taking account my previous statement because we can’t get rid of this stuff so easily, I’ve kept silent for the most part.
@@user-jz8dd3zj8ethat's exactly the point, bestie. Don't be afraid cuz you've got it. It surprises me but I definitely remember someone making an argument that generated cp and other illegal and more importantly immoral stuff is good, because "it can be a healthy and safe outlet for those people!!" Sure bud. There are pedos that, because they were well aware of their desires being wrong and dangerous, never put their hands on any children/teens and got the help they needed. People who know there's something wrong with them, and out of a respectable and expected fear of finding minors attractive, they get mental help. There's no excuse for anybody who realizes those "feelings", and does nothing about them. And cp, whether bought from someone else or generated or whatever other means people get that shit, is still cp, and it is still disgusting. Disgusting, dangerous, violent, illegal, immoral, etc etc etc. There is no ethical way to get your hands on cp, because either way a child was hurt in the making. Still, I fully understand and empathize with your hesitancy. For some reason certain people think "I know you are but what am I" is a good enough defense against people reasonably aggressive against PDF files.
It's infuriating me, the fact some lazy/ greedy people use AI with the guts of saying "AI is for fun!". There's nothing fun of getting your art stolen. AI is uncapable of generating "art" on its own, it needs real human artists to make such abominations, to just reflect A FRACTION of them. Anti-AI forever, and no one could change my mind.
@@Wolf_Blob What about those of us who have practiced our entire lives and still can't draw for shit, don't have the money to commission, and have no other viable ways to express ourselves in way we can find even remotely adequate? Are we supposed to just sit and suffer in silence and let our ideas rot???
@@helixsol7171 you are hard-working, not lazy or greedy (I meant people who don't even pick up a crayon). Art is a your own thing, I know the struggle because I'm literally in your situation right now. Art is not only for aesthetic or online, it's in real life, where it can be your job, or hobby. I'm sure you don't want your 10h drawing to be stolen online for something inappropriate or cringe, right?
"don't worry about ethics or morals just have fun" is a WILD thing to say about using the Planet-Killing Theft Machine and then also purposefully misgendering your critics. not to mention the general absurdity of telling people to just... disregard morality. does she not realize how dangerous of a statement that is to make??
@celestiag.thomas-johnson7067 if you watch the video until 22:43, jouusta mentions how nondi used the incorrect pronouns for the big creator who commented on their AI music playlist. when nondi was corrected, they blocked the people correcting them and continually used the wrong pronouns. i'm sure most people are just unaware because most of this happened on twitter. just a head's up!
Man, as a fellow black creator I was so excited when i found another black artist on UA-cam with similar interest, the whole development was super sadning :(
Agreed! I remember being in the live for her dating sim and people were calling it out then, I figured she’d say something about it even then but this response was wild. 😔
Same, never expected her to act this way 💀 Tbh when I first came across this video I didn't look at the thumbnail clearly. And thought Nondi was telling the creator Ai is bad, not the other way around. (Not shaming the creator!! Already love her content after watching this vid)
She deleted her livestream vod because 90% of the comments were critical of her actions. Her response basically was: “people are attacking me for nothing, they are so dramatic” not at ALL acknowledging her mistakes. It’s ridiculous.
@@bluesdayhasyt2464She mentioned in one of her many rants that she has bipolar disorder. Idk how true that is but it's clear from my personal experience that she's dealing with delusions and a major spike in narcissistic tendencies. Some people have also mentioned she has appeared mentally unwell for a bit in previous videos so she could just be suffering from some mental break. Of course it's not an excuse for her behavior, her actions and words have been hurtful and downright bigoted, but it would explain this downward spiral she's put herself in
I'm gonna be honest I started avoiding this creator like the plague once I stumbled upon her SU fusions video, the implications (emphasis on the word "implications") that the designs were bad/ugly because they weren't conventionally attractive always rubbed me off the wrong way and it's a pattern I noticed with the rest of her videos (eg: Helluva boss redesigns) so I'm not shoked she's ok with the "unrealistic model expectations slop" machine. Disappointed but not entirely surprised lovely response and art!
I never thought about it in that sense. I just liked the designs because I thought they incorporated the outfits and themes better. But now that I think about it, yeah she did get kinda body shame-y with the designs. (Especially with Rainbow Quartz 2.0)
@@redballoon9007 it's a shame because I agree the outfit design is very pretty (not animation friendly but a good design regardless) but I could not ignore how everyone got Genshin-fied 😭
...this is kinda real she doesnt like redesign them because they could be better or say they could represent the character better she just redesigns them becauss theyre ugly???
@@numynumLITTERALLY SHE GENSHIN-FIES CHARACTERS THAT ARE ACTUALLY ORIGINAL AND HAVE A CERTAIN STYLE OR QUICKS (this might be how she remakes vivziepop characters)
I get the "for myself and my own entertainment" when it comes to stealing and tracing art: since you can use other people's art to practice anatomy or to practice on your style. This doesn't work with AI. The second you save it, it gets put into its algorithm that "hey! People like this! Lets take more things like this!" AI cannot be for just yourself.
Yeah, at least tracing has some worth. Not to mention the difference between tracing something for practice, and uploading it while claiming it all to be yours. With ai, there is no difference or worth to begin with.
Yeah you are basically helping to train the algorithm with a lot of stolen art. While with tracing you are just using someone art to train your skill with no other consequences involved (of course im only speaking on the case that you keep your traced work private and for study proposes only)
I can't believe I used to have this stance… I thought "Maybe if I keep the AI images to myself, then it should be fine to use it for references or a rough idea for the next design that I could hand-draw myself, right?" But now that I think about it, even that is too much. Why? Because at least when it comes to stealing and tracing art from human artists: You can use other people's art to practice anatomy, practice on your style, eyedrop colours, and so on. You can keep it to yourself and nobody would be harmed by it as a result. Sadly, this doesn't work with AI, as the moment you save it, it gets put into its algorithm that will then go: "Hey! People like this! Lets take more things like this!" and further get even more artists harmed like this. AI can't just be for yourself in that regard. I feel bad for having used AI images in the past for references, and even sorrier to the original artists who had their art taken away like this, by this. If only I realised this sooner, then maybe I wouldn't have ended up accidentally contributing to something awful like this by downloading these apps that further promote this activity. Foolish move! At this point, I completely give up. I now find AI too harmful to be used ethically. Some may want to argue about the few positives it has, but the negatives alarmingly outweigh them. And given why they're even used in the first place is mainly because of how they make companies money, right? The longer time goes on, the stronger the evidence and demonstrations that greed is indeed a deadly sin. Who knows? Maybe, we'll get to a future where AI's finally only being trained ethically, but until then, Jeez, I don't even know what to say…
So true! I noticed that it’s also not just artists, it can be anyone when doing their craft example: acting, movie, art, etc. it’s hard to criticize anymore because of how the majority of people tend to take it and make it as though it is a personal attack 😔
@@DoDo-dq5lx It's a bit immature tho. You learn to separate constructive criticism and suggestions from real attacks, and not take them personal. To grow a thicker skin and learn to not listen to those that just throw hate for the sake of it. It's part of growing up.
@@lucianomialu9079 I mean it's not like Nondi acted completely polite and respectful to people that brought up genuine criticism. She basically silenced other opinions (turning off comments), then deleted comments, mocked them, called them fake fans, blocked them when they brought up the misgendering and then replied with... Wojack memes. Wow so mature and understanding of other people's perspectives. If you're going to act childish, then other people can do so as well. Not everyone is going to like you, even more so when you've expressed yourself in such an immature way. That is just adding fuel to the fire.
insane you were so nice to her too LMFAO, all of her takes are godawful, including the take on using it as a tool, and you still gave her the benefit of the doubt and tried seeing her arguments, and she still responded the way she did😭 craaaazy
I think the reason I have a hard time with people using generative ai at all (even as a tool) is because it creates more demand for companies to keep prioritizing/developing it I know most of the demand is coming from other companies and people who's opinion on it can't be changed but idk it just feels like using these programs at all is just contributing to supporting them (and implies to others that it's okay/harmless to do) 😭 (I guess I can understand using ai pieces that have already been generated by someone else but going out of your way to create more just feels a little icky to me)
ALSO TRANSPHOBIA JUMPSCARE?? 😭 As a trans fan of hers(ex fan now though I guess) that's really saddening to see ): I really liked her content before so it's rlly a shame that she's acting like this & standing so firm about it all ):
@@infiniteX3 I was gonna do the ai redesign challenge too years ago because the Drawfee channel introduced me to it. I never did draw it though and seeing as how bad the AI issue is now made me regret using that Crayon website for the art challenge 😬 Thankfully after that time I never used and still will never use an AI image generator to this day.
@@lucianomialu9079 I think that’s kinda the whole point they’re trying to make. People are using it unethically and not realizing that by using the AI as a makeshift reference/inspiration generator, they are contributing to the problem.
OwOnekko made a 20+ minute video DOUBLING DOWN/making excuses for using controversial tech. then implied those agaisnt it were "misinformed". All because of ONE critical commitment that wasn't even rude. Wanna get defensive but couldn't even wait for the tech to be regulated.
Like there haven't been professional programmers , computer scientists, and linguists who share the exact sentiment many artists do about how ai is a parrot grift. And actually have the qualifications to back this up- they WORK with tech as their job. And plenty of creatives are experienced in tech too. Some can tell me more about a computer than some of the gen ai proponents ever could. Gen ai doesn’t just effect artist, it effects musicians , programmers , writers, everyday workers , medical professionals, exc. The amount of disinformation these things contributed to and the employment disruption is real. Literal quality of life lowering as well as how horrible it is for the environment. The amount of water and electricity these things use is horrid. No better than nfts and crypto. There is no using it and it not negatively effecting things more than positively. Even if it's for "personal use". Also ew on the transphobia. Was defending Gen ai really worth it? (No, no it's not. Defending a program at actual people's expense is an ew.)
what rubs me the wrong way about the AI music in general, SHE MADE A SHORT ABOUT HOW MUSIC IS HARD TO MAKE. SHE KNOWS. But still goes on to use AI to make it, as if real music is worthless.
i think that’s why she used ai. like she knew making music was hard and takes a long time to do, but she HAD to do that joke(?) *now* (for whatever reason? she could have kept it to herself and her partner but whatever) so she used the easy way out
@@irlgf she could have beep-boxed instead. Would have actually been funnier. Oh, like that "day and night" meme where someone is meowing the beat. Wasted opportunity
Well she did a lot of dumb stuff in the video, … But… Saying music is hard to make and then letting ai make it once it got good enough is the only logical thing. Why waste hours if you can get the required music within minutes? Obviously, ai isn’t that good yet and can’t create music as good as some human creators out there… but tbh, ai is getting real close. Won’t stop people from creating the perfect song they ever dreamed of by themselves, but if you just need SOME good song… just use ai.
@@Megolsky Or Use some of the millions of free , copyright safe music people have shared for years now instead. like we've been doing before without the parasitic software? Its a quick search too. A lot of musicians let you use their beats for FREE and simply want credit. There are songs from ten years ago I can use now that still sound good. No environmentally bad generating nessessary. And I call into question the "beats of your dreams" things when one simply settles with whatever ai generations they get. Those with no knowledge of music making or how to tweak further will always have to settle and never can get exactly what they want. Gen ai tech isn't mind reading tech, after all. And if they want something quick- they can just use the free music we already have rather than generate some. Also also- beat-boxing is fun and free. Adds character. Humor.
@@lotusdragonjbhmaking the beats with your mouth will never not be funny 😭 i find myself laughing half the time im trying to record a melody i came up with cause it just sounds so silly lol. i wanna learn how to make music properly one day so i can bring those soundbites to life, but the second best thing will always just be imitating the sounds to the best of ur abilities XD
She’s live as I’m typing this, called the situation “silly” and is saying that people getting upset over this are “sensitive” and that it’s “such a small thing” to worry about. She’s still being ignorant and at this point I think it’s willful. She’s refusing to see any other pov. I was also a fan and I’m so incredibly disappointed. Thank you for creating this and letting us know! Edit:! She also said that there were “rumors and lies” going around! A lot of people have a lot of physical proof so just watch out for lies and rumors and if they’re not there… then it’s the age old excuse all over again.
@@LinWaraithe funniest part is it’s not even working 😭😭😭like there’s a few yes men saying it’s a joke and agreeing that we’re sensitive, but it’s mostly people explaining the issue with ai and her reactions to this, plus the misgendering. (Which a lot of her chat were trying to excuse)
I love when creators are called out for being problematic, people show proof and somehow they call it "lies and rumors", like the evidence isn't right there and they made a video about it
@@valerial9081 I also love that!! I love when people have full opportunity to make videos debunking “rumors and lies” about videos they ALSO made surrounding THEIR beliefs and views alone (that seem… pretty straight forward tbh…) like yeah! Sure! We’re definitely going to believe these “lies” you aren’t even explaining 😀😀😀
to me I think using AI art for fun and not using it as actually art art and just for fun silly ness is ok! As long as you don’t say you’re an “AI artist” or smt like that I think it’s alr and I used to be a fan and all this crap really sucks :(
the fact she was so, so adamant about how you shouldn’t listen to creators but educate yourself but then went on to explain why she’s right and you should listen to her is wild. how are you going to tell people not to listen to content creators’ opinions but then insist your opinion is the right, enlightened one when faced with criticism on said opinion. i legitimately think she just doesn’t enjoy seeing herself be criticized and is doubling down to be edgy and a contrarian.
@@juzahyodo also her saying everyone criticizing her isn’t a fan or is just a hater is insane. It gives off the vibe that she just wants a fanbase full of yes-men who don’t question anything she says, BUT she also insists that people form their own opinions???? Just really hypocritical and childish:/
Nekko telling her audience to not parrot influencers and form their own opinions, only to trash anyone/everyone who disagreed with her really bothered me.
The creator who made the comment was extremely respectful. I hate AI being labeled as art, because it ISN'T. But to actively misgender someone because they have a different opinion is so wild.
I was ready to be like "well by 'fun' she probably means that she isn't profitting off it so it's different from commercial use" and then you brought up the monetized playlist and THAT went out the window
Yeah. I genuinely don't see much wrong morally with using AI for personal use. Environmentally there's definitely concerns there. But morally it's very hard to see the "but it stealing!!" argument work when it's applied to something like... someone doing a private D&D game and having an AI generated monster. Or making funny AI generated SpongeBob voice clips to share with some friends. It becomes a problem to me when it's used maliciously/commercially, which is what was done here.
I just followed her like last week. Very disappointed to find out that she not only supports Ai but is also transphobic?? Yuck. I think this is the quickest I unsubscribed from someone
@@NemeaChain Fr, like AI art is bad and harmful to artists but whatever I guess (obviously not supporting her cause I’m an artist myself). But upon realizing that she was consistently misgendering someone and was constantly corrected and reminded that “hey, this person goes by he/they, not she/her” blocking the people correcting her (if I’m remembering correctly), that’s a totally different low. She can stay in her own little world making and profiting off of her silly little ai songs all day (harmful ofc), but transphobia is blatantly disrespecting people (as is ai art actually) I guess I expected her to be an ally, especially since she was/is(?) a fan of Steven Universe. How can you love and watch a show about lesbian and nonbinary aliens (and people) and be transphobic?
Honestly, I’ve learned it’s best to assume this about anyone (especially non-queer ppl) unless they themselves are trans. Not gay, not lesbian, but trans. Less disappointing that way🥲 Even ppl indifferent to trans ppl will slip up n say sum transphobic, cuz it’s just the norm to not be educated, heteronormativity is so weaved into our society
just found out she misgendered the artist who left the comment , she fell off so hard by acting like a literal child and then MISGENDERS someone?? insane crashout
@@binkiebrew no it was on purpose. people who were in the live said she purposely misgendered june because she said “somebody’s gender doesn’t matter if they’re a horrible person” which is… wrong in so many ways. she’s been blocking people on twitter who’s telling her not to misgender june, so i doubt it’s unintentional
@@binkiebrew nah she talked about it in her community post that she didn’t mean to misgender them but then goes on to misgender them for the next 2 paragraphs.
@@binkiebrewmisgendering accidentally is fine as long as you put in the effort to learn. But that's definitely not the case here lol. Maybe the first time, but all the others? Nah.
What's really heartbreaking is that OwONekko is a black creator (let's talk about it!) and I loved her content because it's rare to see black girls like me succeed and get that coin when it comes to youtube. I was SO PROUD of her and I loved how funny and genuine her content was 😬 now I just feel betrayed.
Clock it! Because that part is heartbreaking for me. It’s hard to be taken seriously in a lot of artistic spaces as a black person (let alone a black woman) so this really just adds to that struggle now. I get it, for her it’s not serious and never was, she never asked to be a role model or anything. Her tone has always made that clear but I thought it was more of a character than anything. I see now that’s how she sees most things 🤷🏽♀️
@@peanut4668 please with her justifying her transphobia, I was expecting it from miles away. Like it's on the same level as if I, a non-binary queer individual, would justify my racism but when someone uses they/them pronouns for me since they don't know my gender and/or pronouns I'd call them transphobic. I've seen it so many times that it became a MASSIVE red flag for me. Not everyone who criticizes you hates you for something you cannot control. I am sure some of those who harass her are racist or queerphobic (can't say that all of them because I haven't seen it myself and want to keep it that way), but I highly doubt that at the very least 99% of her critics have a problem with her being queer or POC. If they do that's a different story but otherwise, accusing people of of prejudice when no prejudice has been committed is immature. It could be because of her going through an episode like Jouusta claims she was, as someone with BPD myself who goes through episodes it can be a possibility and honestly I wish her the best. I might disagree with her but she deserves to be healthy and well like the rest of us.
Me: -Gets really into a content creator -Watches their videos for hours every single day -They turn out to be childish and disrespectful towards the people that are actually trying to help them Like i don't even know what to do anymore and why does it always happen with the people i respected and looked up to the most wth😭😭
@@snowpawwildcraft6276 yeah😭 like just cause you're a fan doesn't mean that you have to become blind and ignore everything wrong these people do, just let them go it's not that your life depends on them or something 😭😭
if she's going to start a conversation about AI (and there's no way she doesn't know its issues) she has the right to express her opinions on it, but to put her opinion on a stage and refuse to hear out any others? its no wonder she got such a reaction.
Correct. I also don’t see a problem in ai usage and think that all the immorality arguments are logical fallacies, but listening to arguments and thinking about whether they have a point or not is crucial in every conversation, ESPECIALLY in moral and ethical questions.
@@Megolskyi honestly don’t mind ai art, i mind the fact that it steals from artists without asking and is beating out REAL people in art contests. still, i am willing to hear out both sides as long as they’re respectful and not ignorant.
@@lucianomialu9079 if you’re going to put a controversial opinion on the internet, it’s a bit childish to delete and block all comments disagreeing with you, no?
@@lucianomialu9079 If you just silence all other opinions then that means you're not open to anything but hearing yourself. Also she also mocked other people, even those that tried calling her out on the misgendering, did she think the Wojack images weren't going to make people angry? She made fun of others, and now she got it back.
Literally the only gray area i can see for ai art is just if it's to make a concept of something like a character design or setting. Not use it to replace the art or to post it and claim it as your own, TO USE AS A CONCEPT AND DRAW THE ACTUAL SETTING OR OC YOURSELF. I can admit that sometimes you can get good concepts from it, hell the whole stealing ai ocs and the ocs looking amazing despite originally being generated by ai before the artist redrew them is proof of that! But, nobody is using ai for that purpose, they're using it to either claim it's their own art or in even worse cases using it to fake stuff like immoral art or nudes for blackmail. we are very far from ai art just being silly fun, it's gotten to the point where it's actually harming artists both financially and reputationally.
See I like this point because I do use Ai to help with giving me ideas for parts out outfits on characters sometimes. But that's it. I use it the same I would any other references. Take one or two small bits I like and then combine it with smth else. Like sometimes idk what colour to dress a character in so I ask for the outfit without specifying colour. I don't ever claim it as my own and it never makes it past the references. I can't draw for crap so it's helpful for me but that's all it is, an assist to get me started when I genuinely have no idea what to do. I would never, ever use it to design a full outfit or character. That just seems immoral to me as the character is never going to come out as good that way.
Exactly, if I have an idea for a character, I put it in an AI so I can get a general idea of what I want the character to look like, and then I draw the character myself.
I am DYING to develop an AI like that but instead of using stable diffusion or other shit, I make it from the ground up using real photoshoots of people and environments that are either public domain or made by me - and instead of image generation the AI just uses 3D models like mannequins or simple shapes to give you a structure of the idea for character poses and environments (respectively) which you can view from all directions. Like, THIS SHIT. THAT sounds so fucking useful. I'm waiting till I'm done with my major first but that's my go-to project for uni
as someone who also goes by he/they pronouns, hearing that she's made the conscious decision to continue to misgender this creator is heartbreaking. i hate that she's not talking criticism and just thinks that people are trying to cancel her or whatever or at the very least, she says that people wanna make drama out of it. like...girl. you're ("you" as in Nondi) the one making drama out of it! and she's so disrespectful as well! i used to be subscribed to her but i unfollowed a few weeks ago (not because of this video but for other reasons).
also, of course i don't like her stance on AI. this thing i mentioned was just something else on top of what she's been doing and saying that really got under my skin.
What are the pronouns of this creator? I can't find it on their page and I don't wanna accidentally misgender them (idk if they say later in the video or not cos I'm still at the start of the vid lol)
Hey to anyone commenting about the live- Please be aware she is more than likely having an episode, so please leave the live and maybe let her work herself through it, she's not going to act rationally if she's doing this. I was in her live chat until now and left for my own sake, but a lot of people were begging her to actually stop the live, but she might not be able to listen, so please be aware of that, let it run it's course because if you have any mental disorder you know it can get really hard like that. (also lets not make fun of her stuttering, but personally I dont think anyone is making fun of it, I think atleast from what I've seen people are expressing concern over it. I'm saying this because I HAVE A STUTTER) if anyone wishes to correct me please do, but lets just try not to make it worse when she is clearly not in the right mind while doing the live./gen [EDIT; update the live is over thankfully- i hope in the end she is okay, and imma just say, I dont agree with her stance, and thats fine, I hope she atleast learns eventually to take the criticism-]
@@DrawciaGleam02she’s currently live right now but only paying subs can talk in the live! I think she might be having a mental breakdown which is worrying and honestly I hope she’ll be ok. She should take a mental health day and just rest.
Welp she turned the comments off. I feel like that speaks VOLUMES. Edit: People online replying to arguments with just "try coping" is an instant fail for me. If thats your only response, then its clear you know for a fact that you dont actually HAVE an argument.
Even if their point is right/they have a point, it still shows they got their opinion from someone else and couldn't expand on it. It's not even like getting your opinions from someone else is bad, that's how humans develop ideas, but the inability to expand on it and relying on the same three sentences? At least try a little harder.
She turned it off cs in the video she literally said she wants people to form their own opinions and that she’s turning it off so you don’t go to the comments to see how others react to it 😭
@@Azur3ite genuinely, when has anyone ever said something like that in complete seriousness? She gives you all of this unresearched, uninformed, COMPLETELY baseless reasons that she PERSONALLY likes ai. No reasons or sources as to why it should be good or bad. If she wanted people to form their own opinions, she'd give a rundown of both sides of the arguments with sources. Not a virtual hug box for herself.
Her whole “I’m just having fun and being authentic with AI. Why are y’all like this?” reminds me of Kim K’s “I’ve just lost my diamond earrings” and our response to that is literally Kourtney’s “Kim, there are people that are dying”. Yeah the situation is giving tone-deaf.
for people who dont have the Return UA-cam Dislike plugin, the original response video is currently sitting at 2.4K dislikes and the AI playlist is at 1.8K dislikes. also, the fact that she turned off the comments section in that video is ironic. preventing people from having an active discussion in your comments about the subject you're discussing limits critical thinking and keeps people from forming an opinion of their own. how can you advocate for forming your own opinions when you make your voice the loudest?
When AI art just started me and my brother used for fun because we thought it was funny because it looked kinda goofy but then I learn how AI steals from REAL artist and harm it's has done. OwONekko need to understand that even if she meant no harm she cause harm and apologise. I delete the app and stopped. It weird how people can't admit their mistakes.
How's AI learning from art any different than humans learning from art? You've seen countless artworks in your lifetime and your brain subconsciously stores data for them too, so are you stealing as well?
@@Smug-Smirkbad faith comparison real people taking subconscious inspiration from things they love is not the same as robots being trained on pieces by people taking from artists without their permission. and ai is putting artists out of jobs so even if the stealing wasn't a problem, ai is still causing harm to people any way you look at it
@@lungsofjack But that's literally every industry in existence, why are you not protesting other people losing jobs because of technological advancement? I already know - it's because you benefit from it - your food is cheaper, your clothes are cheaper, your electronics are cheaper etc. Same thing with art, as a consumer there's no point paying an artist $200 for a mediocre piece and them taking 2 weeks to complete when you can generate it with AI in 30 seconds for free.
Basically saying "Y'all are not my fans because you don't agree with every single thing I think of" is kinda... a gross way of thinking. Yikes. Hoping this is just something she said out of passion, rather than how she actually thinks. I liked this artist, had no idea that ANY of this stuff was happening. I'm disappointed.
I'm a trans man. I go by he/they pronouns. I've also been a fan of Nondi's videos because I thought she had a fun personality and liked her art. I am so freakin disappointed in not only her AI stance, but also because of her transphobia. I had to pause the video when I got to that point.
@@Influence417 Bro half of your comments here are telling trans people how to feel about this, literally just listen to trans people it’s not that difficult 💀
Bro was literally putting words in my mouth. I don't get how me expressing disappointment in a creator I thought had a cute art style and a fun personality made me melodramatic like what in the fuck?
пезды поехавшие тупорылые, хоть обпронаунся сидя в интернетике, как была женщиной так и останешься. и все на самом деле знают кто есть кто, просто лижут зады поехавшим гендерным сектантам
I didn’t know any of this was going on and I adore owoNekko’s art and personality. It’s one thing to have an opinion on things but it’s another to make fun or just straight up ignore people that have different opinions and try to educate you. I don’t think Im going to follow her anymore after this.
Exactly. Opening a discussion is alright but claiming all criticism is 'drama' is another, I was a fan too and I low-key was a bit disappointed, even on the misgendering thing because I'm trans and it just rubbed me the wrong way
i also didnt know any of this was going on!! at first when YT loaded up with the thumbnail i was excited thinking there was a new owonekko video or even a collab between owo and jouusta! and then i read the thumbnail and title in horror 😞 owo’s videos were a bit of an inspiration to me too, and this is just so disappointing to hear about :/
Same here, I loved her redesign videos ever since she uploaded her first helluva boss human designs. Even if I disagreed with a few opinions here and there, I still enjoyed her fun personality and editing, as well as watching her art process. After learning about how she’s responded to people criticizing her, I don’t think I can follow her anymore either.
This is just really sad for me to see since I was actually one of the people who got one of those stupid wojack responses from her (I was the person in 20:17), and I saw her starting to do the same for other people. I feel like if she just made the video and stopped there, this situation wouldn't be as bad. But with how she has reacted, it made me lose all respect for her. I was having a little benefit of the doubt before she responded to me, hoping she was still somewhat uneducated on the harm of AI. It really sucks to see cause I really liked her artwork and videos before all of this happened...
I don't think we should normalize its use as a tool, because that's expecting people to know where to draw the line. Where is the line between "it's a tool" and "it does the work for you?" What if you do 20% of the work, and claim you did 90% of the work? And can we expect people to be transparent about this? The best way to prove your authenticity is to avoid it completely. Even that isn't 100%, but once you dabble, people will become skeptical and critical. It can ruin a reputation in-full. Adam Duff and ErgoJosh aren't really someone people look up to in the midst of all of this. Not only are they ostracized from the AI bro cult for being an artist, but they've burnt their bridges with artists, as well. Most people aren't exactly thrilled about their take, and it's probably better to really, really think deeply and thoroughly before deciding to add it to the toolkit, especially when it doesn't add any value, like in Ergojosh's case.
AI isn’t a tool. AI is a creator. And if people „use“ AI to get art… Then they aren’t the artist… They are the commissioner Who commissioned from AI It’s that easy
I mean I think it can be used as a tool. It’s helpful to look at examples of what it makes and look for details that make it uncanny or wrong, and figuring out how to correct it. The problem is that it is so close to normal art that people can be tempted to lean on it too hard. It’s basically (in my uneducated opinion) the equivalent of using a reference, but instead of taking it off of google images it’s scraped off of people content directly… ethical, no, but it could be used responsibly I guess? It’s like a really beautiful pencil. If you use it to create an original piece, that’s fine. But if you just post a picture of it online (especially if it was designed by someone who isn’t credited), it is not original or fair.
@@grimaussiewitch It isn‘t a tool because you don’t use it It is the artist AI draws for you It doesn’t help you draw It draws for you That’s why humans can’t be AI artists But rather AI commissioners
16:45 saying "im just selling the entertainment!" is like stealing a car, taking people out on a car pool, the police find you and arrest you and you say "but they're having such a great time thoo!! i only stole it so they can have fun!!!" ... YOU STILL STOLE THE CAR 😭😭
Just wanna say that this was an incredibly well made video and critique. It's absolutely atrocious Nondi's response to this video, or at least the thumbnail as I certainly won't support that sort of behavior. But, I think you have and continue to handle yourself well. This was my first video of yours but I am looking forward to exploring your other videos :3
this is so upsetting i just wanna say thank you for covering this I would have never known this if I hadn't seen your video I think you gave great arguments I really hope owonekko can grow but in the end growing may not be enough
As a fellow artist myself I really despise generative AI, the idea that companies are spending billions on a technology designed to replace artists from doing a job THEY LOVE really makes my blood boil (Also great vid I love your content 😊)
Seriously! If companies could just PAY people, that would help artists across the world SO MUCH!! The fact that suddenly when artists get the ability to start profiting comfortably off their work they’re now being replaced and laid off… it just makes me so upset :(
It really disappoints me not only as an artist but a black creator who rarely sees black artists thrive n shit like this. I really love her art and her design work is beautiful i cannot deny that or use it in past tense it IS gorgeous n her humor has never failed for me- I don’t even mind the stance on ai that much I can see how it can be used as a tool- maybe not as much as she did but I understand it. Like for reference, it’s not exactly perfect now but- maybe you can’t find the exact position you need for reference and photo bashing doesn’t workout the way you need or taking a photo of yourself can’t be used because you’re a faceless creator or something.. I can see how ai could help with that. But the fact she is playing victim and ignoring everyone while saying SHES being ignored irks me to the core… and on top of that the unbothered transphobia makes me nauseous as a trans dude myself. I really hope she acknowledges it but in all honesty I don’t think she will. I fully think she’ll continue on and not see any issue with what she did especially since she has a support system like her partner that believes the same thing. So either this will keep going until it’s all forgotten and ppl forget and she’s making new content or she’s wrecked her channels reputation and it crashes and burns. 🤷🏽
I watched her response vid first and came to see how bad this vid was. But wtf you were so kind and respectful and the way Neko responded was so childish and cruel
The fact that Adobe is stealing art from the people that PAY THEM TO MAKE ART is *FUCKING. NUTTY.* THANKS ADOBE! I LOVE BEING BOTH THE CUSTOMER *AND* THE PRODUCT!
Man I’m just tired of people profiting off of stealing people’s art. I’m always scared that I come off as too passionate and too serious about the subject of AI use, but I am actually sick of it. I really want artists to have so many opportunities, but they are actively being erased and taken by ai and it just sucks. As an artist, I can’t see ai art as being beneficial to artistic expression at all, especially since it is taking people’s jobs and passions away.
3:33 > gets the most mild, non hostile and perfectly reasonable piece of criticism from someone with a bigger audience > "BIG, MASSIVE, ASTRONOMICAL creators NEED to stop doing this!!!! Dont let these art MEANIES BULLY you out if being YOURSELF. Heres my 30 minute video about how the real problem with ai is the people who think its wrong to use technology that scapes peoples hard work without permission or credit"
Knowing who the creator she’s talking about was(won’t say who cuz you didn’t say so respect) I’m just bewildered; like this creator is one of the nicest and most passionate members in the art community (and has openly shared that they’re non-binary) so both the disrespect *and* the misgendering rubs me off the wrong way
I love the ai-loving crowd calling artists ignorant and yet THEIR the ones who have no clue how ai works, artists have to do research and look into it and now ai better than the people who use it just to be met with a "nu-uh," its like arguing with children.
Its a shame such a good creator would have views like this. And the fact that, Nekko wouldn't listen to anyone's opinions and even go as far as misgendering someone with a valid argument is INSANE to me. Honestly, I hope she can see the error in her ways and apologies to everyone she may have hurt and if not I see no reason to support her anymore. P.S. I don't think your title is too clickbaity. It seems about right.
I'm sure the misgendering was a mistake however i don't know owonekko myself so i can't say for certain but that is my opinion that it was an innocent mistake until proven otherwise
@@bourbonpoppy If it was an innocent mistake I'm sure she would've made an apology by now. Like.. a pinned comment, or a community post. If it was a mistake but she hasn't apologized, it's still bad
Rewatching this video after watching the latest animatic on Owo’s channel and I dont even understand where they got the thought of racism from. They clearly need help but sadly I don’t think anything can help now
Subscribing just because this is like THE most respectful and kind commentary video I've ever seen. As someone who was a former fan of owonekko (and even agrees with SOME of her points on ai), seeing her react to criticism so immaturely is disappointing. I hope she takes a solid break from the internet and gets her mental health back on track.
Well this is disappointing. I really like Nondi’s redesign videos, and she always seems like such a fun, chill person. I only started watching her videos recently but with ai support and transphobia being things she’s apparently ok with I think it’s time to unsub :/
i used to love watching OwOnekko s videos but her stance on AI and responses is sosososo frustrating to me as a fellow artist! so disappointing to see her reaction to all of this, it made me really sad. Thank you for talking about it! makes me have faith in humanity again😭🙏really appreciated this thank you!!!
jokes on her cause i didnt know this vid existed till i saw that extremely distasteful thumbnail. think you summed up everything really well, i hope youre doing mentally okay too in the wake of this whole weird thing 😭
coming from her live just now. this whole thing is so weirdly blown out of proportion (mainly by her it seems). i feel bad for any hate shes getting but the way she blames yall in her community post is wild. someone leaving a comment =/= sending hordes of haters her way edit: not the first live, she just had another one drawing comments with a thumbnail of this video that implies its racist
Art, REAL art, and individuality share an undeniable and indelible link- you cannot have one without the other. When you tread the path of a creative, you’re taking from all around you and what you’ve experienced up until the very moment you place your hand on the pen and begin to paint the picture in your mind. Other art you’ve witnessed growing up, things you’ve come to love, things you hate, every little piece of it on your journey shapes the work you make, sifting through your life to blend in the things you want and discarding what you don’t to make something holistically *your* own life. You can replicate a style should you wish, but it will never be one to one, because an art style is a personal culmination of your life to that point and a love letter to everything you’ve seen that’s touched it and left an impact on you. Ai replicates, it blends what it sees from various sources to cobble together an image, but it lacks that distinct, human emotion of dislike. Ai when “making” art cannot turn it’s nose up, cannot reject what it sees, and mixes what it’s told to mix in it’s programming without picking apart what it’d specifically deem as bad, because it’s not us. Every copy of an AI art program is like a soldier, it will follow what it’s told to the letter even if the result comes out putrid and lacking in thought because it’s job is not to feel, it’s job is to listen. When you, when WE as people make art- even when taking commissions, we take small liberties where we can and add our own flair, because to be human is to say “I was here” in all we make.
Going on Pinterest and looking up interior cafe for a reference and the search being filled by endless ai art and pictures of cafe was so crushing to witness, I honestly missed the authenticity of actual photography and drawings and not those copy paste glossy pictures....
just saw OWO's newest, and honestly, i dont think i even need to be brought up to date with whatever drama i stepped into. her video was just cruel, odd, and honestly felt like watching a teenage boy be refused Vbucks & throwing a tantrum inelementary school. & the begining of their video aswell as the description was respectful. sooo yeah. yikes
Oh no! I wasn’t following her, but I’d watched a few shorts and videos of hers and I liked her art, she’s a talented artist and it’s a shame to see her reacting like this to critique. I can understand her turning off comments if she was being inundated by aggressively negative ones, but deleting valid criticisms and misgendering people is a horrible look. I hope she eventually matures and learns from this instead of staying in the echo chamber she clearly wants to live in.
Me! Genuinely this is so fucked up I seriously think Nondi should step away from the internet because that stream [for the amount of time I've been in] was just... yikes
Call me a "woke blue haired gen z" or something but her disrespecting that youtubers pronouns when her fans where trying to correct her was kinda the final straw for me :( Now im upset because i dont really want to watch her videos cus of this but i found her suler fun it's just hard to enjoy that now if she was rude to her fans and defended AI then called her fans who disagreed with her "haters" feels so petty 😭
i'm not even anti-AI, i'm *anti unethical AI* . i have literally no issue with people using *ethically sourced/trained AI programs* (within reason). the problem is that basically all AI programs are unethically sourced/trained. and honestly i think that's the stance most ""anti AI"" people have. we just don't want it to use stolen art in its training data. we don't want real human beings to have their work used without permission and be taken advantage of.
Came here after watching Owonekkos latest video Nothing about what you said was anything to do with her race, her calling you racist for no reason is just childish, like a middle schooler like "is it because I'm black?", SHE IS 30
EDIT (9/26/24):
Nondi has started using they/them pronouns. I used she/her in this video in reference to them, so keep their updated pronouns in mind when regarding them further.
Also, I've seen some people claiming I'm a minor in conversation about my video, so i should clarify that I am not. I'm 19, baby!
This is all I'm adding for now 🫡 good lordy
EDIT (9/12/24):
Thank you to all who have let me know about Nondi’s most recent livestream and livestream thumbnail. I have not watched the full VOD, but I have seen the thumbnail and… obviously, I am not okay with it. Not in the slightest.
That being said, it’s very clear to me that they're having a mental health episode of some sort. I’m hoping after that livestream they'll take some time off the internet and not entertain this controversy anymore. I’m disappointed with her actions, with her portrayal of me, and with how she’s handled everything, but at the end of the day I want her to be mentally well, and I feel bad that I contributed anything to the deterioration of her mental state.
I still stand by everything I said in this video. I still think she’s wrong for misgendering the larger creator (and continuing to justify it). But I think this will be the last thing I’ll say regarding this video and OwONekko. If anything else happens, I’m not gonna address it (unless I feel like I REALLY need to).
Again, don’t go and harass Nondi. Don’t be nasty to anyone. Take care of your mental health too.
. . . . . . . .
A few more notes here!
I changed the title of this video from “How to Lose an Audience’s Trust - OwONekko’s AI Art Stance and How it Harms Artists” to “OwONekko’s Generative AI Stance and How it Harms Artists” because I felt like that was a more concise and less offensive way to market the video.
I also want to say I do NOT think Nondi is a bad person for using and liking AI for the reasons they do, I just disagree with their reasons, and I should have been more clear about that. They're entitled to their opinion about AI as much as I am entitled to mine. I may go here or on my insta to say a few more things regarding this situation if anything else happens, but I’m not going to make any more video content because I don’t want to egg on the people that have been relentlessly harassing Nondi because of my video. Genuinely, I feel awful about that. If you have anything to say about this discourse, keep it on MY video and off of their twitter/ UA-cam page. They've seen all the arguments, criticism, and nasty shit that’s out there. I may have criticized them for blocking certain users in my video, but at this point I think that course of action is 100% justified.
If I had known this video was going to be shown to over 200,000 people in less than 48 hours, I would have been a lot more clear and less reactive with how I expressed things in this video. I’ve never had a video perform like this one did.. like, genuinely, I thought this would be watched by the people already in this discourse and MAYBE just a few others. It was not my intention to bring so many new eyes to her channel, especially in this light, but that’s what happened.
As for the transphobia claims, they say it was an accident and will not repeat this mistake going forward. They haven't apologized for misgendering the creator, which I absolutely disagree with, but they've made it clear they don’t stand by what they originally did. (that being said, I am not trans or queer, so whether or not you want to support them for this going forward is completely up to you. Just don’t go and be a bother to them.)(edit: they have continued to justify their misgendering the larger creator so idek anymore)
I’ll edit this comment if I have anything else to add, but for now that’s all I have to say.
If you read the comment replied she did in the community post, she instantly just lie and went back on everything. She hasn't changed a bit, which is very disappointing
Check out her community post 🥹 I'm really hoping is satire but omg
JOUUSTA LOOK AT OWONEKKOS NEW COMMUNITY POST NOW SHES BASICALLY ACCUSING U OF BEING RACIST ON THE THUMBNAIL
Look at her community post she's nuking her channel lol
You are fine, you are ok. I get where you are coming from in this statement and I apreciate the self reflection. But one thing to be mindful of is
- Gen ai is a hot topic right now.
- anything negative will often skyrocket in views.
Even still, you meant well. I was there when it all started and and have been following it her for a while. (I unwatched after the ai video doubling down because I don't support people who use it on PRINCIPLE.)I still agree with your statements. Even if you got sassy here and there:
- you weren't rude.
- you stated how you respected her stance.
- you simply debunked a fair amount of what she said.
She was dead wrong on a lot of this and the transphobia was inexcusable because she doubled down on it and continued it. Even after being continually corrected.
Don't take this to heart and I look forward to your artwork. Sorry things are going a little wild rn.
"This is in no way an attack on you."
OwOnekko: "SO YOU'RE SAYING YOU HATE BLACK PEOPLE?!"
Fr.
I'm pretty sure they were being facetious, not accusing with any sincerity. Seems to me they believed themselves to be "giving back the same energy" because they, in fact, never said the AI was "GOOD" as the thumbnail image suggests. They clearly view themselves as having a more "neutral" stance. Generative AI, is, in fact, a tool. However, we live in a worse timeline, where it is exploited, most egregiously by corporations, but on the individual level as well, in ways that harm artists and their livelihoods. Separating these facts in favor of the simpler, easier, more comfortable stance that allows them to have their spoofy fun without facing the guilt/ implications of supporting the scummy companies that create these unethically sourced programs, is something a lot of people are going to frown at, for good reason.
So yeah, they didn't say AI was GOOD, but they took a "neutral" stance which, in the current climate and situation, isn't exactly feasible. Further, their actions and words in support of the personal enjoyment makes it easy to extrapolate their statement into the one used in this video's thumbnail. After all "Ai is good." is gonna grab more eyes than "Ai is just a tool, and is ok for personal fun stuff and I shouldn't have to think about all the icky ethical trash that everyone is so tired of dealing with anyway. Let me have fun, dangit." So, they clapped back by ALSO "saying stuff that was never said"... but whereas Jou here made an oversimplified slight exaggeration of an actual take/ belief for the thumbnail, then properly presented and examined the take throughout the video itself, Nondi was just... out of pocket, out of line, offensive, rude and wrong, taking things into a territory which I have little doubt actual bigots has likely already brought up in comments or DMs once the backlash started, but absolutely had no place in the actual argument.
So yeah... not a serious accusation. Just, unfunny, unthinking, inconsiderate, messy "clap back" that doesn't work. That's... better? (Really not, lol)
@@Mai57 if nekko was actually neutral on AI, they would not use it and would not have such an outburst and insult everyone that hoped Nekko was okay and to take a moment to rest and thing and wished them well because the fans were and still are worried about them. plus it's not about the AI anymore, it's about the poor reaction from Nekko and how they overreacted to polite criticism that in no way was meant to insult her .
Yes i do understand there are scumbags still attacking her, but those people are either too young to understand how that is not a way to go about this drama or too oblivious and hyper obsessed.
which by the way, is a thing on both sides, but even their actual fans understand that what Nekko is doing is just... not healthy for anyone, including her.
They had a childish outburst and everyone saw how it really is not healthy for them to react this way and neither was it the right way.
someone on a neutral stance about their use of an abused tool is not what Nekko's actually is. theirs was hyper aggressive and defensive to a point of trying to find a reason to be angry that really wasn't there in the first place.
@@marshmeowlow I can't help but get the vibe you didn't quite read all of what I said. 😅 There's a reason I kept putting the word "neutral" in quotes. But thanks for the extension on why the "neutral" stance they take isn't "feasible" as such.
@@Mai57 that's true, sorry.
just so much going on with this and the comments and i do not have the best reading comprehension xP
Her thumbnail in her latest stream is so immature and the views to likes ratio is INSANE 😭
FR the comments are double of the amount of likes ☠️🙏🏽absolutely outrageous
i've got an extension that shows dislikes, 380 likes to 2.3k dislikes as of rn LMAOOO
@@allien.777 I checked it on a dislike website it’s honestly so funny
It is INSANE
its crazy how this adult women responds to criticism by making fun of people that are just trying to point out some things wrong with nondi's opinion
her response really shows what kind of person she is. she's either completely missing the point or she knows exactly what shes doing but doesnt care. if its the former its still shitty because she refuses to listen
Yea, she’s acting pretty fishy, if it’s “not that deep” then she would be perfectly alright with leaving the comments on
Also the transphobia on their part just makes everything worse.
Edit: Nondi goes by they/them pronouns now so this has been changed to reflect that.
Yeah there's a difference between doing something wrong out of ignorance, but actually be willing to listen why what you did was wrong and apologize and try to be better, and d acting childish, refusing to accept any sort of valid criticism and correction
It doesn’t help she’s constantly hiding behind comments defending her both as comments themselves and under replies on comments of genuine criticism (referring to her ai playlist vid as she turned off comments on the main video defending ai), also liking them to kind of overshadow the overall criticism to make them look like they’re being “condescending” and “mean”. Extremely disappointing and honestly childish ☹️
@@SpaceySodaPopWHAAAT?? What happened with that? I'm soo upset man🙁
Discourse aside, I find it nice how you added a level of humanity in the thumbnail art. It’s a reference, something ai wouldn’t be able to replace.
its also not a really weird thumbnail that demeans or makes someone out to look like a racist! people could learn from this...
@@allien.777certain….neko people…
@SUNNSTONE6603 definitely specific neko ppl
@@musical_costumer7976 Ones whose names start with "OWO" all in caps.
It’s just a drawing stop being so dramatic about it
AI art is NOT art
Art is meant to be an outlet for creativity and feelings. AI has no feelings, AI does not create, it recreates. And AI should never be considered as an alternative to replace artists
its not art but its useful
I slowly watch as the time moves and the current generation became more conservative haha.
@@wvn9957 it can be useful, but it would definitely help if the artists they were stealing from consented and were compensated. also if it were more regulated. wanting some form of restriction over ai 'art' dosent make you conservative
AI "art" is essentially just an AI generated image, just like how a generated realistic landscape isn't "AI photography".
art1
noun
1.
the expression or application of *human* creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
Ai art is art , art doesn’t need feelings because art is creating something but your right ai doesn’t create real creator is the person behind the screen who imagines the concept and types the words
AI would be useful. If they werent promoted to any type of art form 🙄 corporation saw it as "easy way out" and "cash grab" that's why artist hate AI usage not AI itself
what the hell is she even talking about "ai allows me to be my most authentic self" ???? 😭😭😭 ai is genuinely the most INAUTHENTIC thing i can think of
LITERALLYYY
Probably means it can allow her to do whatever she wants without little limitations but idk
@@lovediedin2009 It is for real so weird that she's using "being her authentic self" as a reason to use AI while denying a trans persons identity... She could at least keep her own logic consistent lmaooo 😭
Yeah that's like if someone texts you a full blown novel saying they poured all of their feelings in that message and "that's the true them" and then you find out it was written by chatgpt, like you didn't pour a single feeling😭😭
@@victimvideo_oop when was that trans person drama abt?
I am so glad I wasn't alone in feeling weird about her response video. Why assume we only have these opinions because we follow bigger artists and not because we already know how harmful generative AI is ourselves? Encouraging people to find their own stance and morals then subsequently silencing those you don't agree with is certainly.. a choice
Fr, She encourages having other people make their own opinions off of the information they see but when that opinion just so happens to be different from hers it's suddenly wrong because if they disagree with her they're also disagreeing with her "true self"
This entire video wouldn't have happened if she could've just took the criticism like a champ, she must've known she would've gotten criticism about her ai opinions since she's in the art community but shes acting so childish about even people politely pointing out her bad behavior
I was gonna say something similar to this tbh. Like sure the "songs"(?) were funny I guess but. It felt like an out of season April fools joke.
@@lucianomialu9079atp you’re getting reported for spam- you’re in EVERY REPLY THREAD! please calm down!
@@cirquedutournesol Were the songs uploaded this month? September?
Is everyone else seeing OwONekko’s live right now? The thumbnail is straight up horrible. Even if she’s clickbaiting by calling you racist on it, the drawing is just mean and cruel. I’m sorry you’re going through this, stay strong 💕.
Oh my god I just saw and she’s so childish what the hell????
Just saw it! My jaw was absolutely DROPPED
Yeah I thought it was a joke at first, she’s 100% serious
@@SaltnpiperHonestly it’s just really sad to watch. Hopped on her stream for like five minutes and I just had to turn it off.
@@PassedFlowers People were telling her to just stop the stream exactly because of this. Small update, but all Nekko is doing in her stream is drawing the comments of the “haters” in said stream, making fun of it, and trying to act like a “troll” to show the situation doesn’t affect her. It’s really sad to see considering the creator of this video was nothing but polite towards Nekko . Let’s hope all of the people involved in this can find peace, because goodness, Nekko’s rude response really wasn’t needed and made this situation worse.
First it was the Applejack slander...
Lesson learned; Applejack haters are people haters, so much for being authentic when she's literally the element of honesty
Her Applejack slander bothered me to no end lmao,, like she didn’t do shit to you girl stop being aggressive damn😭😭
Hating on applejack is now a red flag to me, like nobody slanders on my little cowgirl pony 😭🙏
This comment 😭😭☝️☝️☝️
Imagine hating Applejack bro, she's a nice yeehaw horse
"She never showed signs"
She absolutely did and applejack can prove it
The thing she said in her original video about how “so what if ai is stealing your art? There’s nothing you can do about it, so use it” was what got me. No ones advocating for ai to go away; that’s not realistic, they’re advocating for regulations and laws so that it can’t blatantly steal others people’s art and not compensate the og artists or take away creative jobs. It’s also just a really defeatist take that I don’t agree with
Well there is a computer program that sneakily messes up AI art programs.
@@gothnerd887i think the same program was proven to not work
Also, that's not true. AI can go away. If it isn't making money, if laws are put in place to protect people's work and the planet (as Gen AI use a ton of energy and harm the environment), it will go away. Companies aren't going to keep around a tool that doesn't bring money in.
@@veinfish the older model was proven not to work in a small percantage of cases. The current model has not yet been cracked nor does it look like it will anytime soon
It is a take either for people who were looking forward to this tech and want to seem as if they care, or people who tried to fight it but gave up and now willingly chose to become part of the problem - don't know which one is worse.
People often forget about the strength of the individuals forming in groups - if not for that we wouldn't have laws as we have now to the benefit of the common folk. If one's take is "we can't stop progress" then you are bound to be broken by its cogs no matter if you use that progress or not, as the endgame winners are those who set up those cogs in the first place. What is realistic to do is to put down the AI kool-aid and not use it, advocate against it, don't buy products with current gen corpo-AI that is being pushed, and educate people about the good AI that actually IS being developed for the benefit of common folk, but is often forgotten.
In the end technologies stay only as long as they are profitable or useful to any significant level. But should the narrative become unfavourable to an extent in which mentioning AI causes to lose clients - which is currently happenign - then the tech will fade away at least in some capacity. What's more, we can see the trend of rising distrust against new AI and services & products losing their appeal at the mention of AI, so it's not an unrealisitc thing.
I think her main problem is refusing to understand why something is harmful to other artists and then trying to act like she is “breaking the mold” by claiming that she’s not allowing others to stop her from doing what she wants to do. It’s just very immature and disappointing from a viewer and fellow artist.
In addition, her saying to not let others stop you from being your authentic self while constantly misgendering another artist is very hypocritical.
Also, legally some states (in the US) are advancing in AI laws to make AI generated music or to replicate real life music artists ILLEGAL. Especially in states where the music industry is a very big thing helping their economy. While it could be better for labels to make AI music without having to pay the artist, AI music is harmful to the MANY people that it employs to make the music.
I think I'm most surprised by the states trying to make it illegal. I don't expect much from america, I never should've from the beginning, so to see at least some states doing something decent for once is a pleasant surprise.
Wait I didn’t know about the misgendering thing! Can someone please explain?
@Such_A_Silly_Willy I believe the "larger creator" owonekko was referring to goes by he/them yet nondi kept calling them she/her despite numerous corrections
@@Vesperad0Bro, why all the hate? 😭
Like, I get being surprised; I am too since I haven't heard much about it.
Where'd you hear the legislation stuff btw?
"Ai isnt hurting anybody" it hurt me and my future. I can't get a job now. 🤷♀️
Sounds like a skill issue, ngl.
@@Karv3rThis type of attitude is exactly why artists are lashing out lol
@@trashbot.3533 It's unfortunate, but no amount of lashing out will stop progress. The sooner an artist gets with the times and adapts to incorporating AI into their workflow, the better it will be or them in the long run. There's also nothing wrong with finding a job that actually pays and sticking to being a hobbyist, which is what I ended up doing.
@@Karv3r It's understandable where you are coming from. Technology has always proven to destroy and then create more jobs. Despite this argument, ai art does not seem to improve anything aside from creating bare bones concepts. It does not teach proper anatomy, lighting, or color theory and the recycled ideas may at times be a disadvantage for artists. The only upside seems to be time. Though no doubt such a technology will only improve with time, be careful that it may begin to reach beyo nd art. Not to fearmonger or anything, but it certainly feels like the more it progresses, not even a "proper job" will be safe.
@@trashbot.3533 it also cut jobs intead of creating more because that's what a.i meant to made
"Stealing is bad but AI is okay" is like saying stealing is bad unless the robot I made does it in my place... wdym 😭😭
Buy I mean you can use AI without stealing
(Getting inspiration)
@@keithflippers4429what do you mean? If you mean, ai companies could possibly use a model that didn't steal and therefore using it wouldn't be stealing sure. But if using a company that steals you are essentially the accomplice. You're receiving stolen goods. Even if you use those stolen goods to make something else out of them.
@@keithflippers4429 this take is dumb asf when someone says they use AI to get ideas i roll my eyes
@@father270right like bro pinterest is free and so are other resources 😭
@@keithflippers4429 If the Ai is not created ethically, it cannot produce anything ethically. It doesn’t matter how you use it, you are encouraging Ai and are essentially saying you’re okay with art theft.
"ai helps being authentic" is hilarious considering none of it authentic, it is all stolen
And there are some AI bros says that because it copy different features from different artwork, and the OG artwork was posted pubicly so in their words it's "not stealing" like AI bros are just clowns and insecure 🙄
even if it wasn't stolen and the models were SOMEHOW ethically created, it wouldn't be authentic still. If it is not made with your hands, it has none of your character, especially if every single person giving the same prompt in the same model can replicate it in seconds no effort. What's so special about it then?
And it has a serious "same face syndrome" problem
Even more ironic when its *artifical* intelligence, not 'authentic' intelligence
Maybe. Maybe not.
This is quite shocking to me as I only casually watched her UA-cam shorts. To find out she approves of ai art and turned off the comments on her ai videos shows how sensitive she is to criticism.
The fact that she kept saying: "Express yourself and go share your opinion", and then turning off the comment section.
I'm in the exact same boat I only have watched her shorts and she seemed really cool I'm so disappointed
yeah on her ai playlist she said to take the convo elsewhere bc she doesn't want drama, but that makes no sense at all.
Because you’re harassing someone BECAUSE THEY HAVE AN OPINION?
@@lucianomialu9079
YES.
THE AI HAS NO CHOICE ITS WHAT ITS MADE TO DO
ITS THE PEOPLE WHO USE IT.
Bro i saw owonekko’s thumbnail for her live and she’s just acting so immature and the whole live was immature..💀
Why is she drawing the hate comments on the video and trying to be funny
why did she even mock you in the thumbnail you weren’t even hating on her
She's just making the situation worse and worse for herself 🫠
Ok, is no one gonna point out Nondi's line "Educate yourself on it on your own time. Don't let people tell you how to feel about it. You need to figure that out for yourself." is actually pretty scary when you think about how she's been acting in response? Normally that could be taken as 'take the time to research a topic and don't rely on word of mouth alone.' and that would be a good thing. This ain't that though. This sounds like her saying 'don't let others educate you on something. no one has the right to tell you you're wrong about what you've learned or what you stand by.' That's a seriously dangerous way of thinking cause learning something yourself has a chance for bias viewpoints or using untrustful resources that seem ok at a glace. There's a difference between ignoring opinions and ignoring those who have learnt differently just because they don't see it the same way as you.
THIS! I was just thinking about that and how harmful that way of thinking is... it's honestly, like you said, really fucking scary
Exactly, plus the things she says just perpetuate the idea that everyone who criticises you just wants to cause drama and hurt you.
Which is harmful because it leads people to being defensive of themselves rather then their opinions:
It's not about discussing *what's* 'right' anymore, it's about discussing *who* is right, which just makes the conversation unproductive and hostile for no reason
Wholly agree with all of this!
yea she isn't even trying to be receptive. Like I was gonna give her the benefit of the doubt and maybe think that she was just heavily misinformed about what ai actually does and why it's bad. But when you don't even try to listen to people who are being respectful, who are *trying* to extend an olive branch to you is when you just honestly don't deserve to even be heard out. She's just being childish and is putting herself in a bubble with a bunch of yes-men and people who either don't know or don't care that ai art cannot be used without stealing from others. I don't think she'll even care if it happens to her maybe. It's just pitiable
@@marshmallow927 I just wanted to say, you stopped me from writing a long as hell comment to a different reply cause you took my thoughts right out of my head and put them in a short and sweet way -I'm way too wordy for my own good sometimes- . This is why I didn't see her advise in a favorable light. Like if she wants to ignore info when it was kindly given to her, that may be her m.o., but we can for sure criticize how she handles it and point out any red flags we may see along the way, as her attitude can play just as an important role as the viewpoints themselves. Her advise when combined with her actions show how harmful that advise can be to those that still follow her.
“Ai isn’t hurting anyone!”
The animation industry has completely flipped. Many studios aren’t hiring opening positions because they’re filling those positions with ai. So the job I was working towards my entire life is practically impossible now. I don’t know what to do. I’m not going to art school like I planned, and I feel obsolete. Oh, but I guess that’s my problem. I just have to “catch up” and “be better”.
there’s also that big writer’s strike last year where one of the big concerns was studios using AI to replace writers. It was a whole thing?? 😭😭
It's also harming the environment, which artists should also bring out when talking against Gen AI.
bro what studios are replacing animators bro it hink you just pulled there out of your ass
@@bellabsdreamlabYep, and then sold the VA’s asses out to AI, so even the SAG-AFTRA didn’t help much
It’s NOT hurting everyone get your facts strait ai is not hurting me 😐I support ai as well as oppose it 😐
As someone who genuinely took interest in her content/her as a creator, it was extremely disappointing how she decided to handle this topic. She already knew beforehand that she will receive backlash/people stating their OWN opinion but would shut people down saying "we aren't her fans if we don't agree with her opinion" type of statement. What ticked me over the edge was the transphobia and the fact her partner was saying that people were making up the transphobia stuff 💀
so off topic, i love ur art
@@masonjar1405 That's very sweet of you! Thank you so much 🦭🩵!!
WAIT SHE WAS TRANSPHOBIC AS WELL!?!? Thats fucking horrible
@@FXXTRN I like your art too!
@@malaksafa4074 Awe thank you thank you!! Sorry for the late response 🩵🙏 it's early morning here
the logic that "bad people will always exist so we should just let them be bad!" irks me sm
"there will always be tracers" yeah so we call them out and educate them
Was a recent fan of hers, the lack of self-awareness is AMAZING
Ok uh edit: correction, I discovered that she was in the animation meme community and I had been following along all this time but didn’t peep the shift cuz I left the community early… small world 😀
Double edit: that new thumbnail she made is diabolical I am so sorry
seriously, i don't go here and just happened to stumble upon the video here but like, this is serious levels of density and lack of self-awareness. damn.
@@Snowwydaydreamrright like how you gonna say you want discussion but then delete comments 💀
I was subbed for a month now, no longer am. What made me leave is that ignorant lack of self-awareness, and a hypocrite on top of that!
People like that are not worth arguing, so best is to leave.
@@nitz_o She didn’t say she wanted a discussion (if you watch the actual controversial video, you would know that) sorry to sound rude. I just am kind of in the middle of this because she’s not a bad person trying to defend ALL things ai and a lot of people in the comments are kind of treating this like she’s getting canceled
@@Dead_0nix yeah but she’s keeps preaching “be yourself:3” but when people are letting her know how they feel and asking questions. She deletes them, it’s hypocritical and dubious. Hell, making a video like that you should expect discourse and discussion and of course she didn’t outright say that, but she was definitely encouraging it.
I remember her talking about how "if you're scared of ai then you're just scared that ill be better than you and that's a you problem." This is a very shallow idea to have about ai people aren't scared about it being better, people are scared of CEOs and executives not paying artists and losing jobs.
We just a big rally this summer with some of the biggest names in animation standing against ai
Exactly this.. she seems to forget that artists are shit scared because of both reasons. One day (which might be soon), companies will stop hiring more artists and use ai instead. Prime example I've been seeing on my tik tok ads IS an AI movie, fully voiced by ai and the animation is just ai alone. We've already come so far that ai is able to do that.. imagine what it can achieve next year.
@@oxygengas5082ceos and executives usually praise more what is cheaper and easier to control/“take care of” then quality
@@oxygengas5082 are you fucking stupid? i have to assume so
@@oxygengas5082 Except it's not. Corporations use it because it's cheaper- aka they don't have to pay anyone.
@@oxygengas5082remove your profile pic. If you think ai is better then artists then you shouldn't have yourself be represented by those you disrespect.
I'll admit, I'm really not surprised by this kind of behavior. A little while ago in her Hazbin Hotel redesign video, she had a take that being mentally unwell and not doing anything about it made you a bad person. This left me with a bad taste in my mouth, especially as someone with multiple disabilities-- a mental illness or disability alone isn't something that makes you bad, and doesn't automatically mean you will hurt someone if you have it. Being depressed and not being able to do anything about it, having ADHD and choosing not to take medication or other forms of correction, or other examples should not be considered some evil thing, unless someone is explicitly making the decision to harm another person with it-- then those actions would be bad, of course. I felt that the way the video discussed it was really distasteful and generally made it seem as though someone's mental health somehow determined their worth. I tried to bring this up as a concern, not saying that was what she believed but that the way she was discussing it made it seem that way, and her arguments back were...accusatory, not listening to anything that I had said, and acting as though I was trying to attack her for her opinions. I tried to discuss things further but after a couple of responses it became clear she wasn't really interested in actual conversation about the topic, so I gave up and let it go, since I am by no means someone who has enough reach to really do anything about it.
Her supporting AI was still a surprise, but having her act this way in regards to how others respond to it just echoes a lot of that attempt at communication that I made a month or so ago. I wish that things were being handled a bit more gracefully and it's upsetting to see someone I looked up to and was inspired by treating other people in her own fan base this way. The purposeful misgendering as well as frankly gross response to this own video and Twitter comments makes me feel awful.
THAT HAZBIN VIDEO WAS SO BAD SHE DID NOT GET NEAR ENOUGH BACKLASH FOR THAT
@@kumotacloudz I know :( She tried to make the argument that she has BPD, which had caused her to act out in ways that harmed others and that treating that BPD was the only way for that to stop...but my sister and my two partners all have BPD, and most of them have gone untreated for a large majority of their lives due to not having the resources to do so. Despite this they have made every effort to ensure that they look out for others, learn and change if they ever do end up accidentally hurting someone, so not having treatment in no way determines how good or bad someone may be that has mental health related issues.
She kept bringing up that if your disability is hurting another person or causing someone else problems and you don't do anything about it then it has to make you bad, but in all honesty that part Really doesn't feel great either because...well. disabilities Do cause people issues, whether you like it or not. I have fibromyalgia, my chronic pain makes it so that I many times cannot get up to do things. I have to rely on my partner and sister to do a lot of things around the house or help get things for me. I know in some ways this is a detriment to them and causes issues, but they also choose to do so because I literally can't undergo treatment-- fibro just doesn't have a reliable treatment or cure, and we don't have enough money or resources to constantly go back to a doctor to try to adjust medication or find alternative ways to "solve" my disability. Does that make me a bad person, then, under that logic?
It's just hard. I don't think she truly believes that but when she takes such a hard stance and refuses to budge, reword or rethink how to state it, I feel concerned that fans of her may pick up these ideas and apply them to themselves or others.
@polkuio sorry, just to clarify, BPD as in borderline personality disorder or as in bipolar?/genq
@@AverageDonaldDuckFan bpd haver here! BPD is used to refer to borderline personality disorder. bipolar disorder is usually just shortened to bp
@winnielmao I also have BPD, as in borderline. I've heard people refer to both as such and was wondering which she had. Thank you for the clarification
With her whole “don’t let others police your self expression/interests” argument, it’s like she’s trying to equate this situation with cringe culture, which is just… no. There’s shamelessly writing self insert fanfics and making edgy OCs, and then there’s willingly supporting an unethical practice that has done more harm to artists and even the environment than good.
"I don't care about the planet and ethics!! I just want to have fun!! I'm tired of caring!!" Is such a child-like argument
@@snowpawwildcraft6276yeah like if you’re going to think like that, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF
At the same time, even if we aöll stopped using ai. Theyll still work on ai to make it more appealing to ppl or replace stuff
@@DoDo-dq5lx I doubt they’d keep putting money and time into an “industry” people are purposefully ignoring. It’s bad for business, if no one wanted generative AI, no company would bother making it better. Unfortunately, that’s not the case in our world today.
@@frogg_face people still would try to replace workers currently with ai, like with app mods too
Hey its me. Im the Magical Cat Girl. I told her that her response to me wasnt kind or emotionally intelligent to somone who was being respectful to her. And she just posted another hurtful meme image
Im also glad you mentioned the environmental impact. Art theft is an important topic for AI but not enough ppl talk about the environmental DEVASTATION using it causes bc of the amount of energy it requires to run
Imagine giving someone genuine criticism and getting a meme response. Geez. I used to watch her now I think I might just unsubscribe. I hate people who use ai for they own gain.
It's sadly not uncommon how much people miss the point of *why* people dislike generative AI.
Generative AI is a weapon, no more, no less. It's constantly abused for crimes and scams, people have already generated revenge p0rn & CP with these things due to it learning incredibly fast and, even scarier, *well*. G-AI has made so many jumps upwards since the internet was introduced to the concept through AI generated "artworks".
Artists and other people don't hate all AI systems simply for existing. It's generative AI that is actively harming people, not only in the creative world. I've seen generative AI being used to trick people (e.g simulating voices from loved ones) or to scam people.
Generative AIs data is scraped without any permission from the internet. It scrapes artwork, photographs, voice samples, songs, anything it can use to make something from it. If a data bank was made with ethical sources (e.g owners being asked to use their works) that is one thing. But the main generative AIs just steal stuff.
As an artist this is just art theft. Why is it okay if a cooperation steals our creative works we pour hard work in, wether it be art, photographs, voice acting or music but if a person steals art it's suddenly worse? I'd rather be angry at the AI company mass-stealing art than some person in their bedroom right-clicking and downloading my stuff for re-upload.
Yes, both is bad, but at least the person is a meanie and the AI company makes money from this without ever paying the people back they've stolen from.
People had their voices stolen (AI voices/music), their artwork, they photographs, their original movies, stuff they pour training & hard work into just for some company to use them free of charge so people who don't want to pay creators for contributions can generate their anime images.
YES! THIS.
AGREE SO HARD
TY FOR ALL THE BIG PARAGRAPHS
About that comment about illegal stuff being fed into prompts, this why I don’t like AI, because people might reference that stuff sometimes knowing that it’s in there and use that for their works, yet they’ll still say it’s one of the more ethical uses since it’s not *directly* using it. I’ve really wanted to say this, but out of fear someone might get an Idea, or even at best, try to spread the word without taking account my previous statement because we can’t get rid of this stuff so easily, I’ve kept silent for the most part.
@@user-jz8dd3zj8ethat's exactly the point, bestie. Don't be afraid cuz you've got it.
It surprises me but I definitely remember someone making an argument that generated cp and other illegal and more importantly immoral stuff is good, because "it can be a healthy and safe outlet for those people!!"
Sure bud. There are pedos that, because they were well aware of their desires being wrong and dangerous, never put their hands on any children/teens and got the help they needed. People who know there's something wrong with them, and out of a respectable and expected fear of finding minors attractive, they get mental help. There's no excuse for anybody who realizes those "feelings", and does nothing about them. And cp, whether bought from someone else or generated or whatever other means people get that shit, is still cp, and it is still disgusting. Disgusting, dangerous, violent, illegal, immoral, etc etc etc. There is no ethical way to get your hands on cp, because either way a child was hurt in the making.
Still, I fully understand and empathize with your hesitancy. For some reason certain people think "I know you are but what am I" is a good enough defense against people reasonably aggressive against PDF files.
Small correction. The term now is CSAM to better describe what it is. Which is... well child sa material
Hey Jo! I hope you are doing okay, OwONekko has no right to bring racism into this drama. Lots of love ❤️
Sup kana
using ARTIFICIAL intelligence to be "Authentic" to yourself is weird as hell
BEING TRANSPHOBIC OVER AI IS WILD
fr now that’s an oxymoron if I’ve ever seen one.
It's infuriating me, the fact some lazy/ greedy people use AI with the guts of saying "AI is for fun!".
There's nothing fun of getting your art stolen.
AI is uncapable of generating "art" on its own, it needs real human artists to make such abominations, to just reflect A FRACTION of them.
Anti-AI forever, and no one could change my mind.
@@Wolf_Blob
What about those of us who have practiced our entire lives and still can't draw for shit, don't have the money to commission, and have no other viable ways to express ourselves in way we can find even remotely adequate? Are we supposed to just sit and suffer in silence and let our ideas rot???
@@helixsol7171 you are hard-working, not lazy or greedy (I meant people who don't even pick up a crayon).
Art is a your own thing, I know the struggle because I'm literally in your situation right now.
Art is not only for aesthetic or online, it's in real life, where it can be your job, or hobby.
I'm sure you don't want your 10h drawing to be stolen online for something inappropriate or cringe, right?
"don't worry about ethics or morals just have fun" is a WILD thing to say about using the Planet-Killing Theft Machine and then also purposefully misgendering your critics. not to mention the general absurdity of telling people to just... disregard morality. does she not realize how dangerous of a statement that is to make??
When did she purposefully misgender her critics?/genq
@@celestiag.thomas-johnson706722:39
@celestiag.thomas-johnson7067 if you watch the video until 22:43, jouusta mentions how nondi used the incorrect pronouns for the big creator who commented on their AI music playlist. when nondi was corrected, they blocked the people correcting them and continually used the wrong pronouns.
i'm sure most people are just unaware because most of this happened on twitter. just a head's up!
The fact she blocking and deleting comments trying to correct her it seem like she did @celestiag.thomas-johnson7067
Ra ra Rasputin planet-killing theft machine
Man, as a fellow black creator I was so excited when i found another black artist on UA-cam with similar interest, the whole development was super sadning :(
Agreed! I remember being in the live for her dating sim and people were calling it out then, I figured she’d say something about it even then but this response was wild. 😔
Same :/
Same, never expected her to act this way 💀
Tbh when I first came across this video I didn't look at the thumbnail clearly. And thought Nondi was telling the creator Ai is bad, not the other way around.
(Not shaming the creator!! Already love her content after watching this vid)
Im really sorry for you man, i liked her art and still do but yeah this is disappointing :
Not to mention shes very funny 💔 I love supporting as much artists as I can but ai is a big nono
She deleted her livestream vod because 90% of the comments were critical of her actions. Her response basically was: “people are attacking me for nothing, they are so dramatic” not at ALL acknowledging her mistakes. It’s ridiculous.
She even doubled down on the transphobia, still not using the correct pronouns and saying it was okay to misgender someone if you don't like them
@@KittyPlays4Evry1 Didn’t know she went THAT far. What in the world is up with her?
@@bluesdayhasyt2464She mentioned in one of her many rants that she has bipolar disorder. Idk how true that is but it's clear from my personal experience that she's dealing with delusions and a major spike in narcissistic tendencies. Some people have also mentioned she has appeared mentally unwell for a bit in previous videos so she could just be suffering from some mental break.
Of course it's not an excuse for her behavior, her actions and words have been hurtful and downright bigoted, but it would explain this downward spiral she's put herself in
I'm gonna be honest I started avoiding this creator like the plague once I stumbled upon her SU fusions video, the implications (emphasis on the word "implications") that the designs were bad/ugly because they weren't conventionally attractive always rubbed me off the wrong way and it's a pattern I noticed with the rest of her videos (eg: Helluva boss redesigns) so I'm not shoked she's ok with the "unrealistic model expectations slop" machine. Disappointed but not entirely surprised
lovely response and art!
I never thought about it in that sense. I just liked the designs because I thought they incorporated the outfits and themes better. But now that I think about it, yeah she did get kinda body shame-y with the designs. (Especially with Rainbow Quartz 2.0)
I feel the exact same
@@redballoon9007 it's a shame because I agree the outfit design is very pretty (not animation friendly but a good design regardless) but I could not ignore how everyone got Genshin-fied 😭
...this is kinda real she doesnt like redesign them because they could be better or say they could represent the character better she just redesigns them becauss theyre ugly???
@@numynumLITTERALLY SHE GENSHIN-FIES CHARACTERS THAT ARE ACTUALLY ORIGINAL AND HAVE A CERTAIN STYLE OR QUICKS (this might be how she remakes vivziepop characters)
I get the "for myself and my own entertainment" when it comes to stealing and tracing art: since you can use other people's art to practice anatomy or to practice on your style.
This doesn't work with AI. The second you save it, it gets put into its algorithm that "hey! People like this! Lets take more things like this!" AI cannot be for just yourself.
Yeah, at least tracing has some worth. Not to mention the difference between tracing something for practice, and uploading it while claiming it all to be yours. With ai, there is no difference or worth to begin with.
Yeah you are basically helping to train the algorithm with a lot of stolen art. While with tracing you are just using someone art to train your skill with no other consequences involved (of course im only speaking on the case that you keep your traced work private and for study proposes only)
I can't believe I used to have this stance…
I thought "Maybe if I keep the AI images to myself, then it should be fine to use it for references or a rough idea for the next design that I could hand-draw myself, right?"
But now that I think about it, even that is too much. Why? Because at least when it comes to stealing and tracing art from human artists: You can use other people's art to practice anatomy, practice on your style, eyedrop colours, and so on. You can keep it to yourself and nobody would be harmed by it as a result. Sadly, this doesn't work with AI, as the moment you save it, it gets put into its algorithm that will then go: "Hey! People like this! Lets take more things like this!" and further get even more artists harmed like this. AI can't just be for yourself in that regard.
I feel bad for having used AI images in the past for references, and even sorrier to the original artists who had their art taken away like this, by this. If only I realised this sooner, then maybe I wouldn't have ended up accidentally contributing to something awful like this by downloading these apps that further promote this activity. Foolish move!
At this point, I completely give up. I now find AI too harmful to be used ethically. Some may want to argue about the few positives it has, but the negatives alarmingly outweigh them.
And given why they're even used in the first place is mainly because of how they make companies money, right?
The longer time goes on, the stronger the evidence and demonstrations that greed is indeed a deadly sin.
Who knows? Maybe, we'll get to a future where AI's finally only being trained ethically, but until then, Jeez, I don't even know what to say…
I hate when creators can't take any criticism. It's so ridiculous. Then taking criticism as a personal attack against them? wow.
So true! I noticed that it’s also not just artists, it can be anyone when doing their craft example: acting, movie, art, etc. it’s hard to criticize anymore because of how the majority of people tend to take it and make it as though it is a personal attack 😔
@@Star14Light every human being can mistake or take critizism as an attack... Its not rare or not normal either
@@DoDo-dq5lx It's a bit immature tho. You learn to separate constructive criticism and suggestions from real attacks, and not take them personal. To grow a thicker skin and learn to not listen to those that just throw hate for the sake of it. It's part of growing up.
@@valerial9081
So ignorance? Isn't that seen as a relatively bad thing?
I get the bliss out of it, but that's only gonna get people to keep trying.
@@lucianomialu9079 I mean it's not like Nondi acted completely polite and respectful to people that brought up genuine criticism. She basically silenced other opinions (turning off comments), then deleted comments, mocked them, called them fake fans, blocked them when they brought up the misgendering and then replied with... Wojack memes.
Wow so mature and understanding of other people's perspectives. If you're going to act childish, then other people can do so as well. Not everyone is going to like you, even more so when you've expressed yourself in such an immature way. That is just adding fuel to the fire.
insane you were so nice to her too LMFAO, all of her takes are godawful, including the take on using it as a tool, and you still gave her the benefit of the doubt and tried seeing her arguments, and she still responded the way she did😭 craaaazy
I think the reason I have a hard time with people using generative ai at all (even as a tool) is because it creates more demand for companies to keep prioritizing/developing it
I know most of the demand is coming from other companies and people who's opinion on it can't be changed but idk it just feels like using these programs at all is just contributing to supporting them (and implies to others that it's okay/harmless to do) 😭
(I guess I can understand using ai pieces that have already been generated by someone else but going out of your way to create more just feels a little icky to me)
ALSO TRANSPHOBIA JUMPSCARE?? 😭
As a trans fan of hers(ex fan now though I guess) that's really saddening to see ):
I really liked her content before so it's rlly a shame that she's acting like this & standing so firm about it all ):
Fr like if I'm doing a A.I redesign challenge I find that A. I shit on Pinterest
But no way in hell am I touching a A.I generator 💀
@@infiniteX3 I was gonna do the ai redesign challenge too years ago because the Drawfee channel introduced me to it. I never did draw it though and seeing as how bad the AI issue is now made me regret using that Crayon website for the art challenge 😬 Thankfully after that time I never used and still will never use an AI image generator to this day.
@@areyrii what is wrong with you things
@@lucianomialu9079 I think that’s kinda the whole point they’re trying to make. People are using it unethically and not realizing that by using the AI as a makeshift reference/inspiration generator, they are contributing to the problem.
OwOnekko made a 20+ minute video DOUBLING DOWN/making excuses for using controversial tech. then implied those agaisnt it were "misinformed". All because of ONE critical commitment that wasn't even rude. Wanna get defensive but couldn't even wait for the tech to be regulated.
Like there haven't been professional programmers , computer scientists, and linguists who share the exact sentiment many artists do about how ai is a parrot grift. And actually have the qualifications to back this up- they WORK with tech as their job. And plenty of creatives are experienced in tech too. Some can tell me more about a computer than some of the gen ai proponents ever could.
Gen ai doesn’t just effect artist, it effects musicians , programmers , writers, everyday workers , medical professionals, exc. The amount of disinformation these things contributed to and the employment disruption is real. Literal quality of life lowering as well as how horrible it is for the environment. The amount of water and electricity these things use is horrid. No better than nfts and crypto. There is no using it and it not negatively effecting things more than positively. Even if it's for "personal use".
Also ew on the transphobia. Was defending Gen ai really worth it? (No, no it's not. Defending a program at actual people's expense is an ew.)
what rubs me the wrong way about the AI music in general, SHE MADE A SHORT ABOUT HOW MUSIC IS HARD TO MAKE. SHE KNOWS. But still goes on to use AI to make it, as if real music is worthless.
i think that’s why she used ai. like she knew making music was hard and takes a long time to do, but she HAD to do that joke(?) *now* (for whatever reason? she could have kept it to herself and her partner but whatever) so she used the easy way out
@@irlgf she could have beep-boxed instead. Would have actually been funnier. Oh, like that "day and night" meme where someone is meowing the beat. Wasted opportunity
Well she did a lot of dumb stuff in the video,
…
But…
Saying music is hard to make and then letting ai make it once it got good enough is the only logical thing.
Why waste hours if you can get the required music within minutes?
Obviously, ai isn’t that good yet and can’t create music as good as some human creators out there… but tbh, ai is getting real close. Won’t stop people from creating the perfect song they ever dreamed of by themselves, but if you just need SOME good song… just use ai.
@@Megolsky Or Use some of the millions of free , copyright safe music people have shared for years now instead. like we've been doing before without the parasitic software? Its a quick search too. A lot of musicians let you use their beats for FREE and simply want credit. There are songs from ten years ago I can use now that still sound good. No environmentally bad generating nessessary.
And I call into question the "beats of your dreams" things when one simply settles with whatever ai generations they get. Those with no knowledge of music making or how to tweak further will always have to settle and never can get exactly what they want. Gen ai tech isn't mind reading tech, after all. And if they want something quick- they can just use the free music we already have rather than generate some.
Also also- beat-boxing is fun and free. Adds character. Humor.
@@lotusdragonjbhmaking the beats with your mouth will never not be funny 😭 i find myself laughing half the time im trying to record a melody i came up with cause it just sounds so silly lol. i wanna learn how to make music properly one day so i can bring those soundbites to life, but the second best thing will always just be imitating the sounds to the best of ur abilities XD
You’re absolutely correct and you should say it🗣️🔥
She’s live as I’m typing this, called the situation “silly” and is saying that people getting upset over this are “sensitive” and that it’s “such a small thing” to worry about. She’s still being ignorant and at this point I think it’s willful. She’s refusing to see any other pov. I was also a fan and I’m so incredibly disappointed. Thank you for creating this and letting us know!
Edit:! She also said that there were “rumors and lies” going around! A lot of people have a lot of physical proof so just watch out for lies and rumors and if they’re not there… then it’s the age old excuse all over again.
yep, and you can only type in chat if you were subscribed for over 20 minutes, she only wants to surround herself with yes men now
so disappointing
@@LinWaraithe funniest part is it’s not even working 😭😭😭like there’s a few yes men saying it’s a joke and agreeing that we’re sensitive, but it’s mostly people explaining the issue with ai and her reactions to this, plus the misgendering. (Which a lot of her chat were trying to excuse)
I love when creators are called out for being problematic, people show proof and somehow they call it "lies and rumors", like the evidence isn't right there and they made a video about it
@@valerial9081 I also love that!! I love when people have full opportunity to make videos debunking “rumors and lies” about videos they ALSO made surrounding THEIR beliefs and views alone (that seem… pretty straight forward tbh…) like yeah! Sure! We’re definitely going to believe these “lies” you aren’t even explaining 😀😀😀
to me I think using AI art for fun and not using it as actually art art and just for fun silly ness is ok! As long as you don’t say you’re an “AI artist” or smt like that I think it’s alr and I used to be a fan and all this crap really sucks :(
the fact she was so, so adamant about how you shouldn’t listen to creators but educate yourself but then went on to explain why she’s right and you should listen to her is wild. how are you going to tell people not to listen to content creators’ opinions but then insist your opinion is the right, enlightened one when faced with criticism on said opinion.
i legitimately think she just doesn’t enjoy seeing herself be criticized and is doubling down to be edgy and a contrarian.
@@juzahyodo also her saying everyone criticizing her isn’t a fan or is just a hater is insane. It gives off the vibe that she just wants a fanbase full of yes-men who don’t question anything she says, BUT she also insists that people form their own opinions???? Just really hypocritical and childish:/
Nekko telling her audience to not parrot influencers and form their own opinions, only to trash anyone/everyone who disagreed with her really bothered me.
The creator who made the comment was extremely respectful. I hate AI being labeled as art, because it ISN'T. But to actively misgender someone because they have a different opinion is so wild.
I was ready to be like "well by 'fun' she probably means that she isn't profitting off it so it's different from commercial use" and then you brought up the monetized playlist and THAT went out the window
Yeah. I genuinely don't see much wrong morally with using AI for personal use. Environmentally there's definitely concerns there. But morally it's very hard to see the "but it stealing!!" argument work when it's applied to something like... someone doing a private D&D game and having an AI generated monster. Or making funny AI generated SpongeBob voice clips to share with some friends. It becomes a problem to me when it's used maliciously/commercially, which is what was done here.
Honestly ai was better when it was worse, like dall-e. Ai should only been made to help, not replace anything.
@@BookWormYuriRemember when the most coherent sentences AI could make was on Eviebot where literally nothing made sense? I miss those days
@@Someoneonceagain I MISS THAT SO MUCH, WHY ARE WE USING CHAT GPT TO FINISH AND EVEN MAKE ASSIGNMENTS
"geez, didnt realize she thought this way :( AI art is not okay"
" SHES TRANSPHOBIC??? WHAT"
Honestly same. Genuinely disappointed in her and am unsubscribing from her as we speak
I just followed her like last week. Very disappointed to find out that she not only supports Ai but is also transphobic?? Yuck. I think this is the quickest I unsubscribed from someone
SO DISSAPOINTING... I was like 😰
I srs liked her steven universe redesigns sm but I'm NOT gonna support someone like her, thank u
@@NemeaChain Fr, like AI art is bad and harmful to artists but whatever I guess (obviously not supporting her cause I’m an artist myself). But upon realizing that she was consistently misgendering someone and was constantly corrected and reminded that “hey, this person goes by he/they, not she/her” blocking the people correcting her (if I’m remembering correctly), that’s a totally different low.
She can stay in her own little world making and profiting off of her silly little ai songs all day (harmful ofc), but transphobia is blatantly disrespecting people (as is ai art actually)
I guess I expected her to be an ally, especially since she was/is(?) a fan of Steven Universe. How can you love and watch a show about lesbian and nonbinary aliens (and people) and be transphobic?
Honestly, I’ve learned it’s best to assume this about anyone (especially non-queer ppl) unless they themselves are trans. Not gay, not lesbian, but trans. Less disappointing that way🥲
Even ppl indifferent to trans ppl will slip up n say sum transphobic, cuz it’s just the norm to not be educated, heteronormativity is so weaved into our society
just found out she misgendered the artist who left the comment , she fell off so hard by acting like a literal child and then MISGENDERS someone?? insane crashout
I wanna be charitable and say that it wasn't on purpose. Hopefully.
@@binkiebrew no it was on purpose. people who were in the live said she purposely misgendered june because she said “somebody’s gender doesn’t matter if they’re a horrible person” which is… wrong in so many ways. she’s been blocking people on twitter who’s telling her not to misgender june, so i doubt it’s unintentional
@@binkiebrew nah she talked about it in her community post that she didn’t mean to misgender them but then goes on to misgender them for the next 2 paragraphs.
@@binkiebrew once it can be seen as a mistake. But she allegedly repeatedly said the wrong pronouns.
@@binkiebrewmisgendering accidentally is fine as long as you put in the effort to learn. But that's definitely not the case here lol. Maybe the first time, but all the others? Nah.
What's really heartbreaking is that OwONekko is a black creator (let's talk about it!) and I loved her content because it's rare to see black girls like me succeed and get that coin when it comes to youtube. I was SO PROUD of her and I loved how funny and genuine her content was 😬 now I just feel betrayed.
Clock it! Because that part is heartbreaking for me. It’s hard to be taken seriously in a lot of artistic spaces as a black person (let alone a black woman) so this really just adds to that struggle now. I get it, for her it’s not serious and never was, she never asked to be a role model or anything. Her tone has always made that clear but I thought it was more of a character than anything. I see now that’s how she sees most things 🤷🏽♀️
fr
@@peanut4668 please with her justifying her transphobia, I was expecting it from miles away. Like it's on the same level as if I, a non-binary queer individual, would justify my racism but when someone uses they/them pronouns for me since they don't know my gender and/or pronouns I'd call them transphobic. I've seen it so many times that it became a MASSIVE red flag for me.
Not everyone who criticizes you hates you for something you cannot control. I am sure some of those who harass her are racist or queerphobic (can't say that all of them because I haven't seen it myself and want to keep it that way), but I highly doubt that at the very least 99% of her critics have a problem with her being queer or POC. If they do that's a different story but otherwise, accusing people of of prejudice when no prejudice has been committed is immature. It could be because of her going through an episode like Jouusta claims she was, as someone with BPD myself who goes through episodes it can be a possibility and honestly I wish her the best. I might disagree with her but she deserves to be healthy and well like the rest of us.
Womp womp that’s what happens when you put people on a pedestal for diversity sake only, they will disappoint you.
@@OpulentPomegranate Off topic, I love the term 'Clock it!' so much. Our community is on FIRE w these terms and I'm so glad I'm black!!!!
Me:
-Gets really into a content creator
-Watches their videos for hours every single day
-They turn out to be childish and disrespectful towards the people that are actually trying to help them
Like i don't even know what to do anymore and why does it always happen with the people i respected and looked up to the most wth😭😭
The most frustrating thing has to be the little army of yes-men and loyal followers that attack you whenever you criticize one thing they do lmao
@@snowpawwildcraft6276 yeah😭 like just cause you're a fan doesn't mean that you have to become blind and ignore everything wrong these people do, just let them go it's not that your life depends on them or something 😭😭
@@IroiRo_owo-_P exactly. Plus if anything, if it's someone I follow and consider myself a 'fan' of, I'm more critical of their actions, not less
YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSS
I wonder which creator I like is gonna turn out to be extremely disrespectful next month!
if she's going to start a conversation about AI (and there's no way she doesn't know its issues) she has the right to express her opinions on it, but to put her opinion on a stage and refuse to hear out any others? its no wonder she got such a reaction.
Correct. I also don’t see a problem in ai usage and think that all the immorality arguments are logical fallacies, but listening to arguments and thinking about whether they have a point or not is crucial in every conversation, ESPECIALLY in moral and ethical questions.
@@Megolskyi honestly don’t mind ai art, i mind the fact that it steals from artists without asking and is beating out REAL people in art contests. still, i am willing to hear out both sides as long as they’re respectful and not ignorant.
@@lucianomialu9079 if you’re going to put a controversial opinion on the internet, it’s a bit childish to delete and block all comments disagreeing with you, no?
@@lucianomialu9079 If you just silence all other opinions then that means you're not open to anything but hearing yourself.
Also she also mocked other people, even those that tried calling her out on the misgendering, did she think the Wojack images weren't going to make people angry? She made fun of others, and now she got it back.
Literally the only gray area i can see for ai art is just if it's to make a concept of something like a character design or setting. Not use it to replace the art or to post it and claim it as your own, TO USE AS A CONCEPT AND DRAW THE ACTUAL SETTING OR OC YOURSELF.
I can admit that sometimes you can get good concepts from it, hell the whole stealing ai ocs and the ocs looking amazing despite originally being generated by ai before the artist redrew them is proof of that! But, nobody is using ai for that purpose, they're using it to either claim it's their own art or in even worse cases using it to fake stuff like immoral art or nudes for blackmail. we are very far from ai art just being silly fun, it's gotten to the point where it's actually harming artists both financially and reputationally.
See I like this point because I do use Ai to help with giving me ideas for parts out outfits on characters sometimes. But that's it. I use it the same I would any other references. Take one or two small bits I like and then combine it with smth else. Like sometimes idk what colour to dress a character in so I ask for the outfit without specifying colour. I don't ever claim it as my own and it never makes it past the references. I can't draw for crap so it's helpful for me but that's all it is, an assist to get me started when I genuinely have no idea what to do. I would never, ever use it to design a full outfit or character. That just seems immoral to me as the character is never going to come out as good that way.
Exactly, if I have an idea for a character, I put it in an AI so I can get a general idea of what I want the character to look like, and then I draw the character myself.
I am DYING to develop an AI like that but instead of using stable diffusion or other shit, I make it from the ground up using real photoshoots of people and environments that are either public domain or made by me - and instead of image generation the AI just uses 3D models like mannequins or simple shapes to give you a structure of the idea for character poses and environments (respectively) which you can view from all directions.
Like, THIS SHIT. THAT sounds so fucking useful. I'm waiting till I'm done with my major first but that's my go-to project for uni
@@bashartzgenuinely please remind me of this comment if you can make that happen
@bashartz this is an awesome way to use AI. Please let me know if you get started on this!
as someone who also goes by he/they pronouns, hearing that she's made the conscious decision to continue to misgender this creator is heartbreaking. i hate that she's not talking criticism and just thinks that people are trying to cancel her or whatever or at the very least, she says that people wanna make drama out of it. like...girl. you're ("you" as in Nondi) the one making drama out of it! and she's so disrespectful as well! i used to be subscribed to her but i unfollowed a few weeks ago (not because of this video but for other reasons).
also, of course i don't like her stance on AI. this thing i mentioned was just something else on top of what she's been doing and saying that really got under my skin.
What are the pronouns of this creator? I can't find it on their page and I don't wanna accidentally misgender them (idk if they say later in the video or not cos I'm still at the start of the vid lol)
@@whatisthis1958 he/they
@@wartygourd thanks!
@@whatisthis1958 np ✌🏽
Hey to anyone commenting about the live- Please be aware she is more than likely having an episode, so please leave the live and maybe let her work herself through it, she's not going to act rationally if she's doing this.
I was in her live chat until now and left for my own sake, but a lot of people were begging her to actually stop the live, but she might not be able to listen, so please be aware of that, let it run it's course because if you have any mental disorder you know it can get really hard like that.
(also lets not make fun of her stuttering, but personally I dont think anyone is making fun of it, I think atleast from what I've seen people are expressing concern over it. I'm saying this because I HAVE A STUTTER)
if anyone wishes to correct me please do, but lets just try not to make it worse when she is clearly not in the right mind while doing the live./gen
[EDIT; update the live is over thankfully- i hope in the end she is okay, and imma just say, I dont agree with her stance, and thats fine, I hope she atleast learns eventually to take the criticism-]
Thank you for this comment ❤
I hope she turns this around and apologizes for peace sake for everyone…. Including herself
Wait, what? What do you mean? Uh oh....
TYSMMMMM
@@DrawciaGleam02she’s currently live right now but only paying subs can talk in the live! I think she might be having a mental breakdown which is worrying and honestly I hope she’ll be ok. She should take a mental health day and just rest.
Welp she turned the comments off. I feel like that speaks VOLUMES.
Edit: People online replying to arguments with just "try coping" is an instant fail for me. If thats your only response, then its clear you know for a fact that you dont actually HAVE an argument.
Even if their point is right/they have a point, it still shows they got their opinion from someone else and couldn't expand on it. It's not even like getting your opinions from someone else is bad, that's how humans develop ideas, but the inability to expand on it and relying on the same three sentences? At least try a little harder.
Exactly. And referring to all criticism as 'drama' also says a lot
did you read the description of that video?
She turned it off cs in the video she literally said she wants people to form their own opinions and that she’s turning it off so you don’t go to the comments to see how others react to it 😭
@@Azur3ite genuinely, when has anyone ever said something like that in complete seriousness? She gives you all of this unresearched, uninformed, COMPLETELY baseless reasons that she PERSONALLY likes ai. No reasons or sources as to why it should be good or bad. If she wanted people to form their own opinions, she'd give a rundown of both sides of the arguments with sources. Not a virtual hug box for herself.
I saw that vid pop up on my timeline (I didn’t watch) i didn’t expect their stance to be that strange??? (also their post on twitter what the hell???)
Hii love your art
Her whole “I’m just having fun and being authentic with AI. Why are y’all like this?” reminds me of Kim K’s “I’ve just lost my diamond earrings” and our response to that is literally Kourtney’s “Kim, there are people that are dying”. Yeah the situation is giving tone-deaf.
for people who dont have the Return UA-cam Dislike plugin, the original response video is currently sitting at 2.4K dislikes and the AI playlist is at 1.8K dislikes.
also, the fact that she turned off the comments section in that video is ironic. preventing people from having an active discussion in your comments about the subject you're discussing limits critical thinking and keeps people from forming an opinion of their own. how can you advocate for forming your own opinions when you make your voice the loudest?
Well maybe if you lot weren't so full of hate, vitriol and stop sending death threats people would let you to the discussion table.
When AI art just started me and my brother used for fun because we thought it was funny because it looked kinda goofy but then I learn how AI steals from REAL artist and harm it's has done. OwONekko need to understand that even if she meant no harm she cause harm and apologise. I delete the app and stopped. It weird how people can't admit their mistakes.
How's AI learning from art any different than humans learning from art?
You've seen countless artworks in your lifetime and your brain subconsciously stores data for them too, so are you stealing as well?
@@Smug-Smirkbad faith comparison real people taking subconscious inspiration from things they love is not the same as robots being trained on pieces by people taking from artists without their permission. and ai is putting artists out of jobs so even if the stealing wasn't a problem, ai is still causing harm to people any way you look at it
@@lungsofjack But that's literally every industry in existence, why are you not protesting other people losing jobs because of technological advancement?
I already know - it's because you benefit from it - your food is cheaper, your clothes are cheaper, your electronics are cheaper etc.
Same thing with art, as a consumer there's no point paying an artist $200 for a mediocre piece and them taking 2 weeks to complete when you can generate it with AI in 30 seconds for free.
"You can see her Twitter if you want."
Me, a Brazilian: can't
Ill break it down for you. She made some art shitting on some people. I wish that was a joke. Rendered and everything. There you go.
@@getyourvibeschecked5282 Now I'm glad I dont have Twitter thank you very much
@@getyourvibeschecked5282literal shit or profanity or neither?
😞@@YourNumberOneRated1997Salesman
@@getyourvibeschecked5282 OH NAH thats actually so gross
Her livestream thumbnail really frames her as a respectable and agreeable person 👍
Right? I'm so so glad she's been able to stay mature about things, and actually take accountability.
Basically saying "Y'all are not my fans because you don't agree with every single thing I think of" is kinda... a gross way of thinking. Yikes. Hoping this is just something she said out of passion, rather than how she actually thinks. I liked this artist, had no idea that ANY of this stuff was happening. I'm disappointed.
I'm a trans man. I go by he/they pronouns. I've also been a fan of Nondi's videos because I thought she had a fun personality and liked her art. I am so freakin disappointed in not only her AI stance, but also because of her transphobia. I had to pause the video when I got to that point.
I never said that…?
@@Influence417what on god’s green earth are you saying 😭
@@Influence417 Bro half of your comments here are telling trans people how to feel about this, literally just listen to trans people it’s not that difficult 💀
Bro was literally putting words in my mouth. I don't get how me expressing disappointment in a creator I thought had a cute art style and a fun personality made me melodramatic like what in the fuck?
пезды поехавшие тупорылые, хоть обпронаунся сидя в интернетике, как была женщиной так и останешься. и все на самом деле знают кто есть кто, просто лижут зады поехавшим гендерным сектантам
I didn’t know any of this was going on and I adore owoNekko’s art and personality. It’s one thing to have an opinion on things but it’s another to make fun or just straight up ignore people that have different opinions and try to educate you. I don’t think Im going to follow her anymore after this.
Exactly. Opening a discussion is alright but claiming all criticism is 'drama' is another, I was a fan too and I low-key was a bit disappointed, even on the misgendering thing because I'm trans and it just rubbed me the wrong way
i also didnt know any of this was going on!! at first when YT loaded up with the thumbnail i was excited thinking there was a new owonekko video or even a collab between owo and jouusta! and then i read the thumbnail and title in horror 😞 owo’s videos were a bit of an inspiration to me too, and this is just so disappointing to hear about :/
Same here, I loved her redesign videos ever since she uploaded her first helluva boss human designs. Even if I disagreed with a few opinions here and there, I still enjoyed her fun personality and editing, as well as watching her art process. After learning about how she’s responded to people criticizing her, I don’t think I can follow her anymore either.
when did she ever make fun of or ignore people that have different opinions?
@@phantomeowz Did you watch the video?
2 hours ago she just posted the most embarrassing double down of the century, holy shit!
This is just really sad for me to see since I was actually one of the people who got one of those stupid wojack responses from her (I was the person in 20:17), and I saw her starting to do the same for other people. I feel like if she just made the video and stopped there, this situation wouldn't be as bad. But with how she has reacted, it made me lose all respect for her. I was having a little benefit of the doubt before she responded to me, hoping she was still somewhat uneducated on the harm of AI. It really sucks to see cause I really liked her artwork and videos before all of this happened...
I don't think we should normalize its use as a tool, because that's expecting people to know where to draw the line. Where is the line between "it's a tool" and "it does the work for you?"
What if you do 20% of the work, and claim you did 90% of the work? And can we expect people to be transparent about this? The best way to prove your authenticity is to avoid it completely. Even that isn't 100%, but once you dabble, people will become skeptical and critical. It can ruin a reputation in-full. Adam Duff and ErgoJosh aren't really someone people look up to in the midst of all of this.
Not only are they ostracized from the AI bro cult for being an artist, but they've burnt their bridges with artists, as well. Most people aren't exactly thrilled about their take, and it's probably better to really, really think deeply and thoroughly before deciding to add it to the toolkit, especially when it doesn't add any value, like in Ergojosh's case.
AI isn’t a tool.
AI is a creator.
And if people „use“ AI to get art…
Then they aren’t the artist…
They are the commissioner
Who commissioned from AI
It’s that easy
100% I hate the argument that you can use as a tool. Like you said where’s do you draw line? Why do you need as a tool?
I mean I think it can be used as a tool. It’s helpful to look at examples of what it makes and look for details that make it uncanny or wrong, and figuring out how to correct it. The problem is that it is so close to normal art that people can be tempted to lean on it too hard. It’s basically (in my uneducated opinion) the equivalent of using a reference, but instead of taking it off of google images it’s scraped off of people content directly… ethical, no, but it could be used responsibly I guess?
It’s like a really beautiful pencil. If you use it to create an original piece, that’s fine. But if you just post a picture of it online (especially if it was designed by someone who isn’t credited), it is not original or fair.
@@TheOneWhoMends it can be a tool once rules and laws are in place.
@@grimaussiewitch It isn‘t a tool because you don’t use it
It is the artist
AI draws for you
It doesn’t help you draw
It draws for you
That’s why humans can’t be AI artists
But rather AI commissioners
16:45 saying "im just selling the entertainment!" is like stealing a car, taking people out on a car pool, the police find you and arrest you and you say "but they're having such a great time thoo!! i only stole it so they can have fun!!!" ... YOU STILL STOLE THE CAR 😭😭
Just wanna say that this was an incredibly well made video and critique. It's absolutely atrocious Nondi's response to this video, or at least the thumbnail as I certainly won't support that sort of behavior. But, I think you have and continue to handle yourself well. This was my first video of yours but I am looking forward to exploring your other videos :3
oh!!! no it wasn't, you did the sunset shimmer equestria girls redesign. I adore that design oh my gosh
@@daydreams4232 samesies ! I didn't expect that, lol!! :3
this is so upsetting i just wanna say thank you for covering this I would have never known this if I hadn't seen your video I think you gave great arguments I really hope owonekko can grow but in the end growing may not be enough
Agree
As a fellow artist myself I really despise generative AI, the idea that companies are spending billions on a technology designed to replace artists from doing a job THEY LOVE really makes my blood boil
(Also great vid I love your content 😊)
Seriously! If companies could just PAY people, that would help artists across the world SO MUCH!! The fact that suddenly when artists get the ability to start profiting comfortably off their work they’re now being replaced and laid off… it just makes me so upset :(
Ehi at least we got the huge W of the Procreate CEO publicly stating generative AI sucks lmao
Why do you despise generative ai, it sounds like your problem is with the companies.
@@user-burner I suppose you’re right, I explain myself in a bit of a weird way
@@ConteShish06 It's fine, I'm just wary of people missing the forest for the trees here yknow.
It really disappoints me not only as an artist but a black creator who rarely sees black artists thrive n shit like this. I really love her art and her design work is beautiful i cannot deny that or use it in past tense it IS gorgeous n her humor has never failed for me- I don’t even mind the stance on ai that much I can see how it can be used as a tool- maybe not as much as she did but I understand it. Like for reference, it’s not exactly perfect now but- maybe you can’t find the exact position you need for reference and photo bashing doesn’t workout the way you need or taking a photo of yourself can’t be used because you’re a faceless creator or something.. I can see how ai could help with that. But the fact she is playing victim and ignoring everyone while saying SHES being ignored irks me to the core… and on top of that the unbothered transphobia makes me nauseous as a trans dude myself. I really hope she acknowledges it but in all honesty I don’t think she will. I fully think she’ll continue on and not see any issue with what she did especially since she has a support system like her partner that believes the same thing. So either this will keep going until it’s all forgotten and ppl forget and she’s making new content or she’s wrecked her channels reputation and it crashes and burns. 🤷🏽
*inserts Tyra Banks meme*
I watched her response vid first and came to see how bad this vid was. But wtf you were so kind and respectful and the way Neko responded was so childish and cruel
The fact that Adobe is stealing art from the people that PAY THEM TO MAKE ART is *FUCKING. NUTTY.* THANKS ADOBE! I LOVE BEING BOTH THE CUSTOMER *AND* THE PRODUCT!
Why does her “fun” get to be more important than the systematic harm of AI??
Man I’m just tired of people profiting off of stealing people’s art. I’m always scared that I come off as too passionate and too serious about the subject of AI use, but I am actually sick of it. I really want artists to have so many opportunities, but they are actively being erased and taken by ai and it just sucks. As an artist, I can’t see ai art as being beneficial to artistic expression at all, especially since it is taking people’s jobs and passions away.
"yuo're not my fans because you disagree with me" is a wild ass take
3:33
> gets the most mild, non hostile and perfectly reasonable piece of criticism from someone with a bigger audience
> "BIG, MASSIVE, ASTRONOMICAL creators NEED to stop doing this!!!! Dont let these art MEANIES BULLY you out if being YOURSELF. Heres my 30 minute video about how the real problem with ai is the people who think its wrong to use technology that scapes peoples hard work without permission or credit"
Just saw their latest vid it was actually horrible and bluntly anti LGBTQ
Yeah I saw as well. Not my thing at all.
Knowing who the creator she’s talking about was(won’t say who cuz you didn’t say so respect) I’m just bewildered; like this creator is one of the nicest and most passionate members in the art community (and has openly shared that they’re non-binary) so both the disrespect *and* the misgendering rubs me off the wrong way
I love the ai-loving crowd calling artists ignorant and yet THEIR the ones who have no clue how ai works, artists have to do research and look into it and now ai better than the people who use it just to be met with a "nu-uh," its like arguing with children.
Its a shame such a good creator would have views like this. And the fact that, Nekko wouldn't listen to anyone's opinions and even go as far as misgendering someone with a valid argument is INSANE to me.
Honestly, I hope she can see the error in her ways and apologies to everyone she may have hurt and if not I see no reason to support her anymore.
P.S. I don't think your title is too clickbaity. It seems about right.
Yes agree
I'm sure the misgendering was a mistake however i don't know owonekko myself so i can't say for certain but that is my opinion that it was an innocent mistake until proven otherwise
@@bourbonpoppy If it was an innocent mistake I'm sure she would've made an apology by now. Like.. a pinned comment, or a community post. If it was a mistake but she hasn't apologized, it's still bad
@@bourbonpoppyit, unfortunately, was not a mistake. she apparently started blocking and reporting the people who tried to correct her.
@@bourbonpoppy yeah but she block people who corrects her like telling her that the person is a guy
Rewatching this video after watching the latest animatic on Owo’s channel and I dont even understand where they got the thought of racism from. They clearly need help but sadly I don’t think anything can help now
Yikes, didn't finish yet but im already anxious because i look up a lot to her art 💔😬
Same
You can still look up to her art yk
@@starscorner5519 Sadly, some people can't separate the art from the artist. It's not for everyone (• ▽ •;)
@@starscorner5519then again, there is also that one qoute that goes “ you can’t separate the art from the artist “ 🥲
I didn't even wanna watch the whole yap I just unsubscribed 💀
Their new animatic is absolutely ATROCIOUS. Just immaturity through and through, it’s so disappointing.
The hole simply can’t get any deeper.
Subscribing just because this is like THE most respectful and kind commentary video I've ever seen. As someone who was a former fan of owonekko (and even agrees with SOME of her points on ai), seeing her react to criticism so immaturely is disappointing. I hope she takes a solid break from the internet and gets her mental health back on track.
Well this is disappointing. I really like Nondi’s redesign videos, and she always seems like such a fun, chill person. I only started watching her videos recently but with ai support and transphobia being things she’s apparently ok with I think it’s time to unsub :/
wait what
TRANSPHOBIA????? WHERE????
SOMEONE INFORM ME
@@Eeeg_yea at 22:39
@@Sh1nobu-k1b damn.
dammmit.
Wow, I can be fine with the AI thing but the way she’s so fine with MISGENDERING someone because they’re saying she’s wrong? Wow, new low
@@Lalaland666-k3x Exactly
i used to love watching OwOnekko s videos but her stance on AI and responses is sosososo frustrating to me as a fellow artist! so disappointing to see her reaction to all of this, it made me really sad. Thank you for talking about it! makes me have faith in humanity again😭🙏really appreciated this thank you!!!
jokes on her cause i didnt know this vid existed till i saw that extremely distasteful thumbnail. think you summed up everything really well, i hope youre doing mentally okay too in the wake of this whole weird thing 😭
coming from her live just now. this whole thing is so weirdly blown out of proportion (mainly by her it seems). i feel bad for any hate shes getting but the way she blames yall in her community post is wild. someone leaving a comment =/= sending hordes of haters her way
edit: not the first live, she just had another one drawing comments with a thumbnail of this video that implies its racist
Art, REAL art, and individuality share an undeniable and indelible link- you cannot have one without the other. When you tread the path of a creative, you’re taking from all around you and what you’ve experienced up until the very moment you place your hand on the pen and begin to paint the picture in your mind.
Other art you’ve witnessed growing up, things you’ve come to love, things you hate, every little piece of it on your journey shapes the work you make, sifting through your life to blend in the things you want and discarding what you don’t to make something holistically *your* own life. You can replicate a style should you wish, but it will never be one to one, because an art style is a personal culmination of your life to that point and a love letter to everything you’ve seen that’s touched it and left an impact on you.
Ai replicates, it blends what it sees from various sources to cobble together an image, but it lacks that distinct, human emotion of dislike. Ai when “making” art cannot turn it’s nose up, cannot reject what it sees, and mixes what it’s told to mix in it’s programming without picking apart what it’d specifically deem as bad, because it’s not us. Every copy of an AI art program is like a soldier, it will follow what it’s told to the letter even if the result comes out putrid and lacking in thought because it’s job is not to feel, it’s job is to listen. When you, when WE as people make art- even when taking commissions, we take small liberties where we can and add our own flair, because to be human is to say “I was here” in all we make.
Going on Pinterest and looking up interior cafe for a reference and the search being filled by endless ai art and pictures of cafe was so crushing to witness, I honestly missed the authenticity of actual photography and drawings and not those copy paste glossy pictures....
just saw OWO's newest, and honestly, i dont think i even need to be brought up to date with whatever drama i stepped into. her video was just cruel, odd, and honestly felt like watching a teenage boy be refused Vbucks & throwing a tantrum inelementary school. & the begining of their video aswell as the description was respectful. sooo yeah. yikes
Omg yes I just saw it and I felt sick watching it.. the video was actually..sad
i always thought she was annoying tbh im sorry 💀
NO CUZ SAME her tiktok told me enough what kind of person she is
Oh no! I wasn’t following her, but I’d watched a few shorts and videos of hers and I liked her art, she’s a talented artist and it’s a shame to see her reacting like this to critique. I can understand her turning off comments if she was being inundated by aggressively negative ones, but deleting valid criticisms and misgendering people is a horrible look. I hope she eventually matures and learns from this instead of staying in the echo chamber she clearly wants to live in.
The fact that they’re calling you racist for not supporting generative AI is the wildest thing to me. It’s giving NaNoWriMo.
Hope you’re okay! I saw her “response” and it’s just ridiculous. Thank you for bringing awareness to her bullshit, but do take care of yourself.
Who's here after the livestream...
Me! Genuinely this is so fucked up I seriously think Nondi should step away from the internet because that stream [for the amount of time I've been in] was just... yikes
Call me a "woke blue haired gen z" or something but her disrespecting that youtubers pronouns when her fans where trying to correct her was kinda the final straw for me :( Now im upset because i dont really want to watch her videos cus of this but i found her suler fun it's just hard to enjoy that now if she was rude to her fans and defended AI then called her fans who disagreed with her "haters" feels so petty 😭
if u enjoy her humor I recommend degenerocity and ggrimey
i'm not even anti-AI, i'm *anti unethical AI* . i have literally no issue with people using *ethically sourced/trained AI programs* (within reason). the problem is that basically all AI programs are unethically sourced/trained.
and honestly i think that's the stance most ""anti AI"" people have. we just don't want it to use stolen art in its training data. we don't want real human beings to have their work used without permission and be taken advantage of.
^^^^^ This, except AI also causes environmental problems.
Came here after watching Owonekkos latest video
Nothing about what you said was anything to do with her race, her calling you racist for no reason is just childish, like a middle schooler like "is it because I'm black?",
SHE IS 30