First time I did pex work, if a cut wasn't perfect or a crimp wasn't perfect I redid it. It did cost me extra time and money, but helped with peace of mind. I called my plumber friend out to check my work. I was told my pex work was high quality plumber style work. No leaks from the beginning to now which is about 5 years later. That's definitely when I fell in love with pex but also learned to respect the pex. It has it's limitations for sure.
The clamp is a better method vs. the crimp..in my experience..now granted the two jobs I’ve been involved in are only less than two years in service BUT as of yet no leaks..and i know there is no doubt that we indeed did not make perfect cuts and clamps
Wow you saved me. I went down the basement and checked the start of a project. It was a wake up call. Went down the next day and corrected some sloppy crimps which were all due to the 1/8” distance. I owe you big time.
This is why I hate to pay for anything that I can, or should, be able to do myself. I don't know how many times I have had to go back and redo work that a professional has done.
Agree with you 100%, these bozos and so called "pros" have contaminated this service industry. They have only helped homeowners to be good auto techs, electricians, plumbers, carpenters and now HVAC techs in my case.
So true. Ironically, often they (the city) require you to use licensed workers which cost a lot more , that come with attitude, and often you get very poor results. I’ve concluded, if you want something done right you got to do it yourself. At times, I didn’t want to break my head learning a task so I contracted it out to licensed workers only to have to get poor results then having to learn it myself anyways and then fix the poor job. They just don’t care most of the times. Don’t want to generalize, but sticking to my policy has worked the best for me
I'm totally agree with you but even if I now have the knowledge, I don't have the practice and practicing some sensitive tasks like that in my house is not an option.
This was excellent an tutorial and review of shotty work! Most of the plumbers that I have worked with as it assistant never do the work as the manufacture specifies. Everybody always wants to cut corners and they say the magical words “that should be fine” which always annoys me because I feel there’s too many variables with the word “should”. The only thing that annoys the hell out of me is that PEX is so much faster than soldering and yet people still can’t take the little time to do it right. All of the new construction materials and tools make the job so much faster, which allows for greater productivity but doesn’t always lead to better craftsmanship. I think that’s just a flaw in human nature trying to get things done as soon as possible and not taking pride in workmanship.
So I oversee a gamut of trades and I have to consistently remind them of manufacturer specs., building codes, aesthetic details, as well as common sense approaches to installation. Contractors need to step away from the mass production model of business and get more hands-on with their subs if we are going to see a change in work quality.
Thanks for the video! As a DIYer getting ready to tackle my first pex project it gives me much greater confidence knowing what to watch out for in my own work.
You might want to check out Uponor PEX A also. It's easier to use. Make sure your cuts are straight and hold it to the backing on the fittings until it retracts and clamps the fitting. Very good systems.
Yeah unless it's the very end of the line I don't use crimp fittings anymore. Expansion pex is much better because crimp and clamp fittings restrict flow too much.
Thank you for taking the time to make this video. My goodness, could you imagine the eventual homeowner having issues down the road. They would have never known there was an issue when they purchased the house. They just expect quality work in an American home.
Yeah, to an untrained homeowner's eyes these fittings would have looked fine. Even the general contractor didn't see anything wrong. It's why a GC needs to understand all of the materials and systems he is putting inside of the house, otherwise he might not be a GC for long.
Wow, quite an eye-opener. As a home DIYer and trying out the PEX system for a small home project I came upon this video hoping to catch some tips only to see the type of work some 'professional' plumbers do. I'll be sure to comply fully in my project. Thanks for the education.
Your welcome. The different pex systems have their nuances, but reading through manufacturer installation requirements goes a long way in ensuring a solid system. Pex-A or B can be great or terrible depending on who installs them. God bless and I think you'll enjoy it.
Thanks for this. I think before anybody does any Pex crimp work, they should see this video. Your point of how forgiving pex is but then how if it is not done properly can cause "near future" problems, is the well presented message of your video!
I spent 5 days in the attic of my rental house a couple years ago replacing galvanized hot water lines from the 70s. A friend, who had been a plumber, told me about PEX. I used only brass fittings and the pinch-type clamps. I've been up there since to check for any leaks and found none. I should note that I live in Southern California so freezing weather is not a problem. I was unaware of the requirements concerning distance from the nubs but I cut straight and pressed the PEX all the way to the nub before clamping. Fingers crossed. As my pal told me (I was 70 when I did that work), "Attics are a young man's game"
@@solarsynapse California bans everything. You have to label virtually everything as a carcinogen if its sold there. Even natural toothpaste containing clay that is told there has to be labeled as a carcinogen! hahahah
This is the first video about Pex that I have seen that addresses these problems thoroughly. I think I will just do CPVC on my small plumbing job. thanks
Great PEX B explanation. As a DYI I will be cutting out a bad crimp on my house because of this video. I have transitioned to Uponor PEX A from PEX B so I have an issue with both. Unfortunately I need to wait till my friend gets back in town so I can borrow his Uponor $450+ Milwaukee expansion tool to fix my weekend mistakes. Both PEX A & B are challenging to use in a remodel. with corners and tight spaces to crimp in. I need those plastic fittings with the stops. I used to use tape on both sides of the crimp ring to insure my ring didn't slip while crimping.
👍 You can also take the rings and tap them on a hard surface to make them slighlty oval and then they won't slide around on the pipe. Both systems have their pros and cons, but I will continue to stick with copper soldering and PEX-B because the only real issue is that they are difficult to install.
@@floydalbright1214 I didn't I had to use a special couplings that In was screwed together. one side was Pex B and used crimp ring and other side Pex A with expansion tool. Used Pex a fittings for Pex A pipe and Pex B fittings with Pex B pipe
Thank you. Great explanations. I was wondering WHY pex could not be used from the valve to the tub spout. Nobody explained why but you did. I will make sure I use 1/2 in copper!
I bought some of those plastic fittings for exposed pex lines in a basement. Crimped a plastic tee and later pushed the line up to fasten. The TEE BROKE IN TWO. Sprayed water everywhere. Use the brass ones and check every crimp. Cut off any that dont crimp right as you go
Yes, well sometimes plastic is preferable to brass. Some people have more challenging conditions - like well water - that can corrode brass and create a leak, and plastic doesn't corrode.
Thank you for this very good video, I am working on a bypass to install my water softener this weekend and these examples of how it does not suppose to look are great
Great and if you're line is 3/4" copper or something besides Pex-B I would try to keep your line as 1" Pex-B so as not to restrict flow too much if you plan on not using the water softener for long periods. If it's just temporary servicing then 3/4" is fine.
THANK YOU , seen other Videos about Pex but none mention the proper way to crimp , I feel a little better on this lil “honey do” i’m about to tackle, thank you again
Great, just make sure you keep it out of UV light (fluorescent, incandescent, and even LED lights can all emit UV radiation to varying levels). It's not usually an issue, but I cover any pipe or plastic fittings that will be exposed to even a day of sunlight. I see some plumbers leave pex pipes out in the sun for months. That's just asking for problems.
I worked maintenance for a large school district and you wouldn't believe what licensed contractors would get away with. Us maintenance guys would always have to go back and fix it right. That plumbing job looks like elementary kids installed it.
Great video for understanding how to properly install PEX B crimping. I note that there are drill plates over the drain lines but no drill plates over the PEX B lines. I opted for the PEX A system with expander fittings for my own home as I find the system somewhat superior and the added cost minimal for such a small installation in my case. To my mind, the method has less of a chance of making a bad connection.
Yes, you do have to have steady hands and better coordination with Pex-B. You also have to think ahead, because you can get yourself into a situation where the tool can't reach. The flow rate also makes you up-size on the trunk and not share too many fixtures from 1/2", however it is stronger than Pex-A and I trust the copper ring more than the elastic collars on Pex-A. I don't think either one is inherently different though, and life span should be the same, but I've found 30 year old crimps under old mobile homes that have survived many freezes and thaws and they're still going strong. Can't say the same for Uponor because it's such a young system. Course it comes down to personal preference, biases and ol' plumber tales since neither system has been around for a century.
@@MyFortressConstruction All matter of opinion. I find the PEX A expander system to have less opportunity to install incorrectly. I’ve installed both. And trust myself. Some others? Not so much. You focus on mobile homes, fair enough. I do not install in mobile homes.
good job,learned a lot ,I just used pex for first time,using the 1/8 spacing ,and crimp it cinch rings ,some copper,and type k in our slab which has a pvc blue jacket,somebody really hacked that job,good info on tub spout,I thought copper was required because of its larger inner diameter,didnt realize it may back up into shower head,keep doin videos
I had that problem 10 years ago. The note from kohler did not have information on the packaging. Had to tear out porcelain tile as the job was completed. Removed the pex between the control shower valve and the fill spout for the tub.
The previous plumber is the kind of person that would get a pat on the back for getting the job done quicker from many of the “professionals” I have worked with
Great video. As a general contractor (or even a homeowner) you don't need to be an expert in every trade, but ultimately you are the one who has to identify poor workmanship and get it rectified. It takes gumption to challenge a proud tradesman who has practiced for 20 years, but believe me, there are guys who have been doing it wrong for 20 years. I came across one sub who knew all the best practices fluently and guaranteed that he abided by them. 6 months later, when all the tile of two bathrooms was torn out, it was plainly obvious that he outright lied about taking the protective measures against water intrusion.
Yes, it's unfortunate but I find that I have to know the technical aspects of every trade. From rebar overlap in a foundation, to water lines and waterproofing in a shower, you need to know any possible issue that could occur later on because ultimately, as a GC, you will be held liable for it all.
Glad I bought the tool and went with expansion PEX. Simply love working with pex-A and not dealing with metal rings or wondering if I missed something.
Thanks for sharing the tub issue with us. I found 10 years ago after having wall all tiled in and the water valve had no mention of this problem. Lot of work to fix. Mine showed up with water coming out of the shower head.
I've seen the issue with undersized line down to the spout. Told the owner she needed to call the plumbers back. Good news for the dumberPlumbers was the head of the tub backed up to a closet. Bad news, they had to drive 45 minutes each way to to fix a 10 minute screwup. And they had pay me to repair the drywall & replace the shelves.
I'm a 20 plus year home inspector and learned a lot of good stuff here. Granted we really don't see the pex connections like this unless doing a pre-concealment inspection which I don't like to do, I can now feel a lot more confidant in doing one at least as far as pex plumbing goes. Great info here for sure.
At 6:55 you can see the top pipe has sun fading. Manufacturer limits sun exposure to 30 days max. Looks to me it got way more than 30 days u.v. exposure.
There's nothing wrong with Pex B / crimps. You just need to know and care about what you're doing. I used it 10 years ago for the first time (not as a plumber) and my cuts and crimps were cleaner that whatever this guy tried to do. A crimp remover goes a long way too. You can cut out a section of pipe without having to cut out entire fittings. Granted, they work a lot better on brass fittings than plastic which is why you should use brass.
Besides the PEX, in the first few seconds we can see a 2" penetration through a stud pack. There are guard plates, but it should have been a shoe due to the size of the hole on a load bearing member.
Yes... Unfortunately, there are many plumbing companies that spread their Masters out across many jobsites and it's apprentices that are doing the actual work with little to no supervision.
And God help you if you get a remodeling company for a shower whose “plumbers” use Sharkbite fittings and will put PEX in stressed positions rather than using a couple of extra elbow fittings. I had a licensed plumber yank it out and put in copper.
Wow! No wonder why there are so many sharkbite and pex haters out there. Its solely because installers such as this are giving them a bad rep. The cutting of the pex looks like some kids cut it with a saw or a pair of dull scissors and the crimping tool they used was obviously a pair of pliers. You can see that the crimping rings are no longer "rings" they are flared out and flattened. I have never seen such shoddy work and I'm not even a plumber. I did a few pex lines myself and never had a leak so far. I liked how you explained where to actually crimp, this made it very clear to me. I just can't believe that I actually crimped in the right area on the pipe!
Yes, the GC on a job generally relies on the subs to know the minutiae. So the GCs only know the basics (hard to know every trade's ins and outs), and so they rely on the subs and inspectors to catch issues, but things like water proofing, flashing, air sealing, using correct fasteners, adhesives, etc. are not always inspected. Also design, which is incredibly important in both HVAC and plumbing, is definitely not taken into account in most spec. homes, where cost and speed are king.
Good video, I was actually looking for what happens if you use an expand tool on Pex B instead of A. Those crimps were pretty shitty. But that's probably closer to the norm then the exception, especially in remodels with no inspection. Like you said, those fittings are so forgiving those will still last many many years.
You can crimp A pex . But do not expand B pex to go on expansion fittings. You would be counting on the expansion rings only to go back to size not B pex. If you expand just right it can work but definitely not recommended. A pex is special with its memory to go back to size.
In 1987, I discovered an empty Quart Beer Bottle between 2 studs in a wall corner of my 1970 built place. I had taken the drywall down to correct an issue with the front entrance doorway. There was no door header!! The framing carpenter had rested a double joist stairway beam onto a single 2X4 over the door opening... 3:40 is a "Quart Bottle" mistake & 10:50 probably 3 Quarts. Imagine how many Quart Bottles were left behind since.
In the early 90's our shop switched to Uponor (expandable) Pex systems. We all met with a Uponor representative so he could demonstrate how to properly install it. We all received a certification and never looked back. I plumbed a 7 bathroom mansion in La Canada Flintridge Ca. back in 2008. 4 tankless water heaters and miles of Pex. Had only one leak where a wood shaving got into a joint somehow....took 5 mins to repair. Never heard from anyone since. I walked another water front mansion in Laguna Beach Ca. during it's framing stage and almost ready for drywall. ALL the metal crimp rings had what looked like a layer of rust. Yikes! (Salt water is harsh on just about everything)
I've seen a video where they got a Uponor fittings and used a machine to try to pull them apart, it didn't. The pipe stretched out and the fitting never came lose at all. Once Uponor fittings contracts, it's impossible for them to come lose.
If an installer puts half the attention and care into a pex joint that they put into a properly done solder joint there really shouldnt be an issue. Ive worked on a big remodel job. A house plumbed with copper that held pressure for a while(hours or a day maybe) and seemed fine initially. A line burst when noone was around for hours and caused a good bit of damage to subfloors etc. Turns out a 1/2" fitting got prepped and fluxed but not sweated. Was a tight enough fit and sat long enough with flux on it before getting pressurized that it held pressure (probably 50 psi+) for hours with possibly a tiny drip. It wasnt one of my joints, I believe i wasnt soldering yet with that company.
I prefer the smaller diameter pipe to the tub if the water heater is tankless. Then simply install ball valves in the hot & cold feeds downstairs to set the flow rate.
Sorry, but there isn't a single reason I can think of that would make doing that a positive. Whether it's a tankless or a regular heater, you are going to use the same volume to fill your tub. I have never known anyone to want to fill their tub slowly. That wastes time and energy. Also, most tankless heaters have a minimum flow rate before they activate so higher flow rates aren't an issue unless you undersize your tankless. The additional ball valves and restriction on fill rate is easily avoidable by using 12" of copper or equivalent ID pipe.
@@MyFortressConstruction The newer tub valves do not allow the user to modulate the flow to the tub. Many residences don't have the needed gas volume available but do have the needed service amperage for a 3 gpm tankless heater, with the tub being the only tap over 3 gpm. It's no fun bathing in cool water.
@@Cotronixco If you are undersizing equipment like that then it is much better to stick with a traditional tank heater because they will be disappointed with a tub that can only fill at 3-5 gpm (6-10 min to fill up). There are a million ways to jerry-rig something, but the proper way is going to be the most user friendly.
@@MyFortressConstruction Generally I would agree, but you are making too many assumptions. Not all installations are cookie-cutter. In this case, the tankless works very well for all situations except filling the tub.
@@Cotronixco I have to deal with a lot of weird situations in remodels and I have never come across a situation where I couldn't use a full size, or dual heater setup and maintain a regular flow rate to a tub. Sometimes it's more work such as rerouting the main, but something like a slow filling tub can cause years of frustration to the occupant. I stay away from electric tankless in remodels because of this very issue. In fact, I stay away from electric tankless period. Gas tankless, or hybrid electric are the way to go. Point of use are fine in office spaces or shops, but whole home water heating systems need to be designed well.
We've had big issues with the brass fittings around our area because of the corrosion issue. leaks within 5 years from the brass fitting swelling from corrosion and in some cases actually breaking the rings. While poly fittings are weaker, they are plenty strong enough if the pex is properly hung and supported, which mediocre plumbers rarely do.
Yeah, you'll do fine. Just review the manufacturer instructions and you'll be off to the races. Couple of reminders: Don't leave it in the sun for more than a day (try not to at all). Oversize your PEX (3/4" PEX has about the same flow rate as 1/2" copper). Make clean cuts and straight crimps. Try to keep fittings to a minimum as they reduce flowrate and add the possibility of a leak.
Thats why I use Uponor with shrink rings instead of metal crimps. I don't know how you can say these crimps are less error prone than Uponor. This wouldn't happen with Uponor.
If I said they were less error prone, that would be a mistake. Expansion fittings for Pex-A are much more user friendly to install, which is why plumbers prefer it. What I mean in the video is that Uponor fittings are more likely to leak than Crimp rings if they were both installed correctly. Pex-B has a higher burst rating than Pex-A and if there is movement on the line, or if it is exposed to heat or cold, Pex-A is more likely to develop a leak over time.
@@DevilTravels PEX-A is a much more flexible pex tubing that uses expansion fittings like Uponor. You can't use crimp fittings on pex A. PEX-B is what you will find in big box stores and it's less flexible and utilizes SS cinch, SS crimp or copper crimp rings. Pex-A is easier to install if you have a battery powered expansion tool, PEX-B is easier for the homeowner because it only requires a $50 manual crimper. Pex-B is better in my opinion for it's durability and strength.
@@MyFortressConstruction Thanks for this information. It seems to support other information I am getting. It looks like PEX-B and crimping is the direction I will go for my cabin plumbing. I just need to make sure the crimp is directly over the 2 nubs on the brass connectors.
@@MyFortressConstruction - you can use crimp fittings on Uponor PEX-A piping. Any tubing labeled SDR-9 can be crimped. Uponor is the only tubing that can be expanded, but its also SDR-9.
This is brutal. Exactly why I don't like to hire out. Frequently, I give a light crimp first, so the ring and pipe stay in place. Then, I recheck and adjust if necessary before giving it the full crimp. If there's a problem, I fix it before moving to the next joint.
The most important rule for ped b is always go up 1/4 in size than code says. Code states its size based off the id of copper pipe. It takes 3/4 pex b to have the same id as 1/2 copper because of the fittings for pex. I use pex a and typically only need two or three fittings which helps flow.
I do size up, but you don't need to size up with everything. Most valves and fittings in a house restrict the flow of water to smaller than what 1/2" pex-B will be able to provide. It's only an issue when you are providing enough volume to a high flow faucet like a tub filler, or multiple fixtures are feeding off the same line. While it's not a perfect formula, due to fittings, length of pipe and psi coming into the house, my rule of thumb is 1/2" pex can provide a maximum of 5 gpm and 3/4 pex can provide 10 gpm. That's if the run isn't more than 30' or so from the main trunk/manifold. The longer the run, the more the psi drops at those flow rates. If I am putting in a tub filler then I am bringing over two 3/4" lines (hot and cold) and connecting to a TMV which will have 3/4" npt connections anyways and I don't have any issues since most fillers are between 8-14 gpm. Hot and cold 1/2" pex lines going to a shower valve with one shower head is totally fine too since it only requires 2.5 gpm. Where I see people complaining is when a 1/2" trunk line is servicing an entire bathroom. At least use 3/4" to each branch...
I’m a beginner with pex I take my time do it right the first time and done my dad taught me before he passed away but now his legend Is in my hands pex has been easy for me now great video
Good presentation, clearly explained. One small suggestion-- when detailing what is wrong with a PEX connection, your camera should be much closer, if possible. The tape measure sequence was OK, but hard to see which rib on the connector was the problem. For the beginner, a closer shot will make crooked angles and close tolerances much easier to see. We subscribed and liked.
@@MyFortressConstruction actually you did good. I know very little about pex but I found each error almost as soon as I seen it. Thanks for the information!
Should’ve use pinch clasps on those elbows. You can tell they tried to use a crimper at an angle where it wouldn’t go over by the wall/plate guide. Hence the crooked rings. Great video!
Four seasons where I live so there's lots of chances for expansion to do what he's explaining, I've also never seen it happen, I'm sure it's possible, I've had faulty PEX crimps where the tab wasn't bent enough from the factory just from one brand and only a couple batches maybe 10 years ago.
9:51 You mentioned that the half-inch pex line going down to the tub spout is too restricted. I think you can fix that also by just using Sharkbite max fittings that grab the pex on the outside rather than reducing the pex flow down to like 3/8" on the inside, which is what you have here.
Yeah, that was something I didn't mention. Some of the pipe was bleached, and as you probably know, uv light and pex don't mix. Or rather, chlorine and uv degraded pex don't mix.
8:45 - I think it's more likely that whoever installed the Uponor didn't turn their tool 1/4 inch all around when making the expansion. Pex Crimps and Clamps get weak over time as crimping or clamping is forcing the pipe against its natural state. Uponor pipes naturally want to be its original size and you have to force it to expand to put the fitting in. However, if you don't push the pipe all the way in or don't expand it correctly (1/4 turn all around when expanding), that's when you get your leaks.
@@purplepill2024 Do a search and you will find several studies about PEX toxins. The more flexible A leaches more than the less flexible B. It becomes worse with hot water. I think many of the chemicals were in the water itself. Keep in mind that PEX has less data since it has not been around as long as other types of pipe. It still passes "safety" standards except maybe in California. Some of that is due to the lead in the brass fittings. Chlorine is toxic to all lifeforms, is highly corrosive to metal and causes plastic to become brittle, yet it is used widely in water treatment. Copper is a nutritional supplement, plastic is not. Of course it is bad if lead solder was used instead of silver! I would say use PEX B, don't drink any water for 30 days after installation, and don't drink any water from the hot side. Also, if a faucet has not been used for over a week, run the water to flush the line before drinking. Filtering is always good. As always, to each their own.
@@solarsynapse Pex was first used (although not for home plumbing) since the 60s, that's plenty of time to gather data. Furthermore, if a simple Google search can't yield any credible sources along with you not being able to provide one simple link - I call BS on your claim.
Yes I do! Just plumbed a whole house all in Pex-B (except in a couple spot where I wanted some straight pieces of 1" and had to buy Pex-A. Still use the same fittings and rings for it though.
Great video, thanks for posting! I did have a question, though. Years past, I used a crimping tool that came with two different “go” and “no go” gauges. As long as the ring fit into the “go” range, one was good, at least I thought. I’ve been reading about over-crimping and cannot find any info as to what the cons may be. I figure the tighter the fitting is, the better, right? The Apollo crimp tool I recently bought comes with the same gauge tool you touched on. Are the lines between “go” and “no go” supposed to line up in the middle of the ring once crimped? And again, if the ring goes all the way in, what’s the harm? I’ve crimped a few couplings that spin once the ring is on, having passed the gauge test, but it worries me. From other comments, it appears that’s normal. The Apollo tool comes with a pressure gauge from 0-3. Any suggestions on where to set it for 1/2” pex rings? At 0, it seemed to fit perfectly based on your video, but again, if the fitting can twist, it makes me nervous it may pop off. Sorry for rambling - any help is appreciated!
I have never had to calibrate a crimp tool, but you are correct in the assumption that if the ring fits in the "go" section of the gauge after crimping, then it is good. So you can spin a fitting after crimping if you have to, but I prefer not to unless there's no way to avoid it. If the line spins freely, with no initial tightness, then I would think the ring isn't crimped how it should be. As for over crimping, I've never heard of that since jaws limit themselves for the most part, but I suppose there could be a set out there like yours that aren't machined to limit themselves. If in doubt, I would call the manufacturer.
@@MyFortressConstruction The only ones I could see that could overset are the ones that have "attachments" that you put on for the different sizes. The ones I have, like you said, just have a physical limit. But they say they CAN be adjusted if too tight. 🤔
Shark bite are fine in an exposed location, but I don't trust them in a wall. The O-rings will harden and form to the pipe and when it gets bumped or twisted it can start leaking a little. Experience would say a single O-rings is not as solid as a full copper or SS crimp. Copper crimp rings have been used for decades and work really well by providing a continuous ring of pressure around the fitting, but are difficult to get into the right spot, or a tight spot. The SS cinch rings are easier to cinch down in tight spaces because the jaws don't have to go around the fitting, they only require one tool for the primary sizes, and I haven't heard anything bad about them. I don't use the SS cinch rings because the track record for copper rings is good and I can rest easy with them.
My word this is atrocious. I hope this guy got paid nothing more than maybe material for just the pex tubing. I can practically hear the air quotes when you said "professional plumber".
Yeah, it's a barndominium and they spray foamed the exterior walls. It's a lazy way to get a tight house. Unfortunately people don't think about the humidity they're trapping when building like that and will find they need to undersize their A/C for dehumidification purposes and install an ERV to remove stale air.
looks like they cut the pex with their teeth.. 🤣🤣... you should get a refund on...🤣🤣👋.. when I install the shower valves I do all the connections with copper..
@@MyFortressConstruction Nobody seems to mention the toxic LEACHING onto our water from the PEX........... DUH NOT TOO COOL when we're POISONING ourselves AND. if this stuff can last MAYBE 20 years.......... duh, we'll be ripping apart our homes & replumbing everything & repairing all the damage from leaks... DOESN"T seem like a valuable product... sure it may be simple, but the problems overshadow the seeming benefits... PERSONALLY I think I'd rather go with copper... Besides, COPPER is a natural germ killer of anything in the water...
@@heyitsrick01 some pex leaches more than others. There have been some hurdles(like dezincification) but properly installed it should last a lot more than twenty years. In Some water conditions copper wont do anywhere close to twenty years. Yes the antimicrobial action of copper is mostly a plus.
I prefer copper over PEX. It’s expensive but worth it. If you screw up, just resolder it no fittings to throw away. Also, you will find out that you made a mistake right away once you do a leak check instead of later down the road and paying up to tens of thousands of dollars for water damage. Also, copper is anti microbial.
@@jerrywhite2818 Been plumbing for almost a quarter of a century. That's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I've roughed in many homes with Uponor and I've repipe many existing homes with uponor.
I like to use a manifold system, probably more pipe will be required but less fittings required=less potential leaks+greater pressure due to less fittings.
Yes, pros to a manifold is the ability to isolate individual fixtures and have less fittings (if designed correctly) in a wall. Cons would be that it's difficult to plumb with a recirculation pump and you wind up using more water when turning on fixtures that need hot (again, it could be minimalized with good design). Like any system, thought needs to be given for a good design from start to finish.
@@kmcwhq They are ok for temporary fittings, and sometimes they can last for years, but they are never going to be as solid as crimp or expandable connections.
@@kmcwhq Yeah, let's just say I would only use them in places that won't be covered by sheetrock/paneling. I have never seen one explode, but I have seen about a dozen leaking drops of water. I would definitely not use them on a hot water line as the heat could degrade the rubber seal faster.
These are very informative. Thanks a lot, a month ago i tried pex and failed because i didnot maintained the 1/4 gap. Question to you, 1) if i crimp and if i am not confident can i do one more crimp (double).. 2) what happens if it is oval and reason behind oval crimp. Appreciate your help.
Yeah, so you can't double crimp. It would probably seal it, but you would risk damaging the tubing by crimping near the edge. Eventually it could rupture or leak. You're asking for trouble when you go outside manufacturer's recommended instructions. As for oval, that means your crimper isn't calibrated correctly and needs to be recalibrated by adjusting the screws that hold the jaws in the correct position. And yes, the rings have to be spaced from 1/8 -1/4" away from the end of the tubing. I shoot for 3/16 spacing. Using some pliers to press the ring slightly, once it's on the tubing and fitting, will make it easier to crimp in the right location.
@@krehbein It's faster to install, when you know how to do it, and I have only had one leak from a bad fitting in all of my time of using it, and that leak was evident immediately after pressurizing. It is a more durable pipe and it's easier to work on for homeowners. It's cheaper and parts are more easily sourced. You do have to think ahead about which crimps need to be made first, but that's not rocket science.
My Fortress Construction Good to know. Im have a pex a Dewalt expander, and enjoy working with it. But if I need parts can only get them at a local plumbing supply shop or online. Sometimes using Home Depot would be easier.
My Fortress Construction More durable than PexA? That’s absolutely not true. Uponor is more durable by a large, large margin. PexA is superior in basically every way it matters.
Are you telling me that the tub flow control valve is only a mixing valve allowing the hot and cold to flow proportionately, while having an open port to both the tub spout and the the shower outlet ? Why don't they make a composite valve or do they, that allows for water temperature adjustment and selected flow of either shower or tub ? Or is the cheaper method the basic valve you are illustrating and then correctly plumbing it as the default application ?
Yeah you got it. It is simply a chamber that allows the two to mix but it will flow to either one until the knob on the spigot is pulled up. There are a plethora of different valves made by different companies. This is the delta r10000 rough in valve, but you can get cartridges that will allow the flow to be controlled separate from the temperature in a single valve. There are also diverter valves that could do what you're saying and act like a ball valve where they send the water one way of the other and that would allow for a smaller diameter pipe since it didn't rely on gravity. This is just by far the most common valve you will find and with PEX being used more and more you will find it being used on the tub spout side which is a no-no and causes the aforementioned dripping out of the shower head from backed up pressure.
Nope that’s a plumber that is a fly by night, drives an old Ford F-150 sport pickup truck with a ladder rack. Comes into your house and has a fila sweatshirt on and a dirty hat on. Then won’t show up everyday because he is 30 years old and is worried about drinking cheap beer at night and having domestics with his pregnant dirty girlfriend that has pink hair and wears dirty Walmart Ug boots in the summertime.
I tried scrolling but couldnt find the answer. For the tub you said 1/2" was too narrow for flow. What would you upsize to in PEX? And would you also upsize the shower head pipe?
You can use 1/2" galvanized iron, or 1/2" copper for the spout leg. Technically you can also use 3/4" pex, but you'd have to get a 1/2" fnpt to 3/4 pex adapter (unless the valve you use has a different threaded port) and then 3/4 pex to 1/2" fnpt drop ear elbow. If you can't solder then galvanized iron is the simplest way, as those pex adapters are specialized and you'd have to order the 3/4-1/2" drop ear elbow.
First time I did pex work, if a cut wasn't perfect or a crimp wasn't perfect I redid it. It did cost me extra time and money, but helped with peace of mind. I called my plumber friend out to check my work. I was told my pex work was high quality plumber style work. No leaks from the beginning to now which is about 5 years later. That's definitely when I fell in love with pex but also learned to respect the pex. It has it's limitations for sure.
The clamp is a better method vs. the crimp..in my experience..now granted the two jobs I’ve been involved in are only less than two years in service BUT as of yet no leaks..and i know there is no doubt that we indeed did not make perfect cuts and clamps
RESPEX THE PEX
Wow you saved me. I went down the basement and checked the start of a project. It was a wake up call. Went down the next day and corrected some sloppy crimps which were all due to the 1/8” distance. I owe you big time.
Glad you were able to correct some things. Good job! And as they say, "Do it once, do it right!"
This is why I hate to pay for anything that I can, or should, be able to do myself. I don't know how many times I have had to go back and redo work that a professional has done.
exactly
Agree with you 100%, these bozos and so called "pros" have contaminated this service industry. They have only helped homeowners to be good auto techs, electricians, plumbers, carpenters and now HVAC techs in my case.
So true. Ironically, often they (the city) require you to use licensed workers which cost a lot more , that come with attitude, and often you get very poor results. I’ve concluded, if you want something done right you got to do it yourself. At times, I didn’t want to break my head learning a task so I contracted it out to licensed workers only to have to get poor results then having to learn it myself anyways and then fix the poor job. They just don’t care most of the times. Don’t want to generalize, but sticking to my policy has worked the best for me
"professional"
I'm totally agree with you but even if I now have the knowledge, I don't have the practice and practicing some sensitive tasks like that in my house is not an option.
This was excellent an tutorial and review of shotty work!
Most of the plumbers that I have worked with as it assistant never do the work as the manufacture specifies. Everybody always wants to cut corners and they say the magical words “that should be fine” which always annoys me because I feel there’s too many variables with the word “should”.
The only thing that annoys the hell out of me is that PEX is so much faster than soldering and yet people still can’t take the little time to do it right. All of the new construction materials and tools make the job so much faster, which allows for greater productivity but doesn’t always lead to better craftsmanship. I think that’s just a flaw in human nature trying to get things done as soon as possible and not taking pride in workmanship.
So I oversee a gamut of trades and I have to consistently remind them of manufacturer specs., building codes, aesthetic details, as well as common sense approaches to installation. Contractors need to step away from the mass production model of business and get more hands-on with their subs if we are going to see a change in work quality.
Thanks for the video! As a DIYer getting ready to tackle my first pex project it gives me much greater confidence knowing what to watch out for in my own work.
Glad it was helpful.
You might want to check out Uponor PEX A also. It's easier to use. Make sure your cuts are straight and hold it to the backing on the fittings until it retracts and clamps the fitting. Very good systems.
Yeah unless it's the very end of the line I don't use crimp fittings anymore. Expansion pex is much better because crimp and clamp fittings restrict flow too much.
Thank you for taking the time to make this video. My goodness, could you imagine the eventual homeowner having issues down the road. They would have never known there was an issue when they purchased the house. They just expect quality work in an American home.
Yeah, to an untrained homeowner's eyes these fittings would have looked fine. Even the general contractor didn't see anything wrong. It's why a GC needs to understand all of the materials and systems he is putting inside of the house, otherwise he might not be a GC for long.
Not a plumber, but this helped me to understand this common mistake someone new might make, thank you.
exactly yes very helpful
Wow, quite an eye-opener. As a home DIYer and trying out the PEX system for a small home project I came upon this video hoping to catch some tips only to see the type of work some 'professional' plumbers do. I'll be sure to comply fully in my project. Thanks for the education.
Your welcome. The different pex systems have their nuances, but reading through manufacturer installation requirements goes a long way in ensuring a solid system. Pex-A or B can be great or terrible depending on who installs them.
God bless and I think you'll enjoy it.
@Phillip Soon You said professionals. That was your mistake. I would called them, so- called professionals.
99% of thos would of out lasted the pipe its self people over think worry to much that said there was 1 or 2 even id not go with
@@jonsworld5307 you mind sharing your business name? Just want to make sure i dont hire you. Thanks
Thanks for this. I think before anybody does any Pex crimp work, they should see this video. Your point of how forgiving pex is but then how if it is not done properly can cause "near future" problems, is the well presented message of your video!
I spent 5 days in the attic of my rental house a couple years ago replacing galvanized hot water lines from the 70s. A friend, who had been a plumber, told me about PEX. I used only brass fittings and the pinch-type clamps. I've been up there since to check for any leaks and found none. I should note that I live in Southern California so freezing weather is not a problem.
I was unaware of the requirements concerning distance from the nubs but I cut straight and pressed the PEX all the way to the nub before clamping. Fingers crossed.
As my pal told me (I was 70 when I did that work), "Attics are a young man's game"
Didn't California ban PEX (Especially type A which is 4 time worse.) because it leaches toxins into the water?
@@solarsynapse California bans everything. You have to label virtually everything as a carcinogen if its sold there. Even natural toothpaste containing clay that is told there has to be labeled as a carcinogen! hahahah
Yes they are
This was very informative- easy problems to avoid by a 10 minute video- Great Job!
Thank you, glad it was informative.
This is the first video about Pex that I have seen that addresses these problems thoroughly. I think I will just do CPVC on my small plumbing job. thanks
Really good information, along with clear illustrations. Thanks for sharing. Hard-to-believe this disaster was installed by a so-called professional.
Too hard for me to believe a pro did this. I think he saved money and had his brother-in-law do the work.
I know, right? The plumbers I've used have been great, but I ran into another yahoo like this down in Austin... Scary.
Great video, it does happen not everyone does a good job. Thanks for exposing the challenges with PEX and things to look out for. Cheers!
Nice video.
Good to know I (homeowner) did a better job than a "professional" plumber. To beat that, with my first PEX plumbing job.
A lot of times knowledge isn't necessarily the limitation, it's the willingness to take the time required to do things correctly
Great PEX B explanation. As a DYI I will be cutting out a bad crimp on my house because of this video. I have transitioned to Uponor PEX A from PEX B so I have an issue with both. Unfortunately I need to wait till my friend gets back in town so I can borrow his Uponor $450+ Milwaukee expansion tool to fix my weekend mistakes. Both PEX A & B are challenging to use in a remodel. with corners and tight spaces to crimp in. I need those plastic fittings with the stops. I used to use tape on both sides of the crimp ring to insure my ring didn't slip while crimping.
👍 You can also take the rings and tap them on a hard surface to make them slighlty oval and then they won't slide around on the pipe. Both systems have their pros and cons, but I will continue to stick with copper soldering and PEX-B because the only real issue is that they are difficult to install.
You can't use pex fittings with pex b pipe .
@@floydalbright1214 I didn't I had to use a special couplings that In was screwed together. one side was Pex B and used crimp ring and other side Pex A with expansion tool. Used Pex a fittings for Pex A pipe and Pex B fittings with Pex B pipe
Use cinch clamps instead. MUCH MUCH MUCH easier.
@@jeffgarner3178 you can use PEX b cinch rings on PEX A, just not the other way around.
That's really methed up!!
🤣
Thank you. Great explanations. I was wondering WHY pex could not be used from the valve to the tub spout. Nobody explained why but you did. I will make sure I use 1/2 in copper!
Glad it helped!
I bought some of those plastic fittings for exposed pex lines in a basement. Crimped a plastic tee and later pushed the line up to fasten. The TEE BROKE IN TWO. Sprayed water everywhere. Use the brass ones and check every crimp. Cut off any that dont crimp right as you go
Yes, well sometimes plastic is preferable to brass. Some people have more challenging conditions - like well water - that can corrode brass and create a leak, and plastic doesn't corrode.
Thank you for this very good video, I am working on a bypass to install my water softener this weekend and these examples of how it does not suppose to look are great
Great and if you're line is 3/4" copper or something besides Pex-B I would try to keep your line as 1" Pex-B so as not to restrict flow too much if you plan on not using the water softener for long periods. If it's just temporary servicing then 3/4" is fine.
THANK YOU , seen other Videos about Pex but none mention the proper way to crimp , I feel a little better on this lil “honey do” i’m about to tackle, thank you again
Thank you for that! I'm about to invest in a PEX set just to have on hand and needed a little training on how to do it right!
Great, just make sure you keep it out of UV light (fluorescent, incandescent, and even LED lights can all emit UV radiation to varying levels). It's not usually an issue, but I cover any pipe or plastic fittings that will be exposed to even a day of sunlight. I see some plumbers leave pex pipes out in the sun for months. That's just asking for problems.
I worked maintenance for a large school district and you wouldn't believe what licensed contractors would get away with. Us maintenance guys would always have to go back and fix it right. That plumbing job looks like elementary kids installed it.
That plumber should be executed
Great video for understanding how to properly install PEX B crimping. I note that there are drill plates over the drain lines but no drill plates over the PEX B lines. I opted for the PEX A system with expander fittings for my own home as I find the system somewhat superior and the added cost minimal for such a small installation in my case. To my mind, the method has less of a chance of making a bad connection.
Yes, you do have to have steady hands and better coordination with Pex-B. You also have to think ahead, because you can get yourself into a situation where the tool can't reach. The flow rate also makes you up-size on the trunk and not share too many fixtures from 1/2", however it is stronger than Pex-A and I trust the copper ring more than the elastic collars on Pex-A. I don't think either one is inherently different though, and life span should be the same, but I've found 30 year old crimps under old mobile homes that have survived many freezes and thaws and they're still going strong. Can't say the same for Uponor because it's such a young system. Course it comes down to personal preference, biases and ol' plumber tales since neither system has been around for a century.
@@MyFortressConstruction All matter of opinion. I find the PEX A expander system to have less opportunity to install incorrectly. I’ve installed both. And trust myself. Some others? Not so much. You focus on mobile homes, fair enough. I do not install in mobile homes.
good job,learned a lot ,I just used pex for first time,using the 1/8 spacing ,and crimp it cinch rings ,some copper,and type k in our slab which has a pvc blue jacket,somebody really hacked that job,good info on tub spout,I thought copper was required because of its larger inner diameter,didnt realize it may back up into shower head,keep doin videos
Yep, the ID is why you can't use 1/2" pex, though it obviously doesn't stop everyone...
I had that problem 10 years ago. The note from kohler did not have information on the packaging. Had to tear out porcelain tile as the job was completed. Removed the pex between the control shower valve and the fill spout for the tub.
Yes, a little knowledge really helps to prevent costly problems.
Thank you very informative. Wish all contractors and apprentices were like you.
Inspections have taught me that licenses/certifications mean jack sh*t and anyone is capable of doing terrible work.
The previous plumber is the kind of person that would get a pat on the back for getting the job done quicker from many of the “professionals” I have worked with
Yes, it's unfortunate.
Great info. Its unfortunate so much rework. The person who crimped should be following you around and learning.
Great video. As a general contractor (or even a homeowner) you don't need to be an expert in every trade, but ultimately you are the one who has to identify poor workmanship and get it rectified. It takes gumption to challenge a proud tradesman who has practiced for 20 years, but believe me, there are guys who have been doing it wrong for 20 years. I came across one sub who knew all the best practices fluently and guaranteed that he abided by them. 6 months later, when all the tile of two bathrooms was torn out, it was plainly obvious that he outright lied about taking the protective measures against water intrusion.
Yes, it's unfortunate but I find that I have to know the technical aspects of every trade. From rebar overlap in a foundation, to water lines and waterproofing in a shower, you need to know any possible issue that could occur later on because ultimately, as a GC, you will be held liable for it all.
So glad I found this before I started using PEX. Thank you!
Some of those cuts are pretty gnarly too.
This was an excellent constructive breakdown of proper pex handling.
Glad I bought the tool and went with expansion PEX. Simply love working with pex-A and not dealing with metal rings or wondering if I missed something.
I guess that you didn't watch the video. He said that expansion PEX is MORE likely to leak over time than with crimp rings.
Very helpful! Just did my first crimp earlier today and had to double check my work.
Thanks for sharing the tub issue with us. I found 10 years ago after having wall all tiled in and the water valve had no mention of this problem. Lot of work to fix.
Mine showed up with water coming out of the shower head.
Yes, that is a bummer...
I've seen the issue with undersized line down to the spout. Told the owner she needed to call the plumbers back. Good news for the dumberPlumbers was the head of the tub backed up to a closet. Bad news, they had to drive 45 minutes each way to to fix a 10 minute screwup. And they had pay me to repair the drywall & replace the shelves.
I'm a 20 plus year home inspector and learned a lot of good stuff here. Granted we really don't see the pex connections like this unless doing a pre-concealment inspection which I don't like to do, I can now feel a lot more confidant in doing one at least as far as pex plumbing goes. Great info here for sure.
I'm no plumber but I know enough to see that they are wrong. Its sad that some people are just that lazy
pure laziness - no pride in the work
@@DosDonts101 Or people like me, who don't know what they're doing and are too poor to pay for a plumber. :)
Hats off to you for taking the extra time to fix a HACK job. Contractors like you are hard to find. You have heart
At 6:55 you can see the top pipe has sun fading. Manufacturer limits sun exposure to 30 days max. Looks to me it got way more than 30 days u.v. exposure.
And now we use PEX A with a expansion tool. PEX B always has oversized because the fittings restrict the water flow.
There's nothing wrong with Pex B / crimps. You just need to know and care about what you're doing. I used it 10 years ago for the first time (not as a plumber) and my cuts and crimps were cleaner that whatever this guy tried to do. A crimp remover goes a long way too. You can cut out a section of pipe without having to cut out entire fittings. Granted, they work a lot better on brass fittings than plastic which is why you should use brass.
I’m bout to start as an apprentice next week this really help !
Great! Do well in your work and keep pride in your trade. 👍👍
No pride in the Plummers' work.
Plummers? What about the plumbers?
Besides the PEX, in the first few seconds we can see a 2" penetration through a stud pack. There are guard plates, but it should have been a shoe due to the size of the hole on a load bearing member.
Must be the same plumber, and I use that term lightly, that did my house
Yes... Unfortunately, there are many plumbing companies that spread their Masters out across many jobsites and it's apprentices that are doing the actual work with little to no supervision.
And God help you if you get a remodeling company for a shower whose “plumbers” use Sharkbite fittings and will put PEX in stressed positions rather than using a couple of extra elbow fittings. I had a licensed plumber yank it out and put in copper.
@@MyFortressConstruction I really think that is the case. I can see how inexperienced plumbers getting experience by making these mistakes.
@@MyFortressConstruction and way to many masters arent
Wow! No wonder why there are so many sharkbite and pex haters out there. Its solely because installers such as this are giving them a bad rep. The cutting of the pex looks like some kids cut it with a saw or a pair of dull scissors and the crimping tool they used was obviously a pair of pliers. You can see that the crimping rings are no longer "rings" they are flared out and flattened. I have never seen such shoddy work and I'm not even a plumber. I did a few pex lines myself and never had a leak so far. I liked how you explained where to actually crimp, this made it very clear to me. I just can't believe that I actually crimped in the right area on the pipe!
Gentlemen, this brings me to my next point. Don't smoke crack.
lol, or maybe he needed a hit that day...
I doubt that. Even if a hit can bring the addict up to normal you still will not get exceptional quality work.
Just go old fashioned - threaded galvanized pipe. 👌😁
@@jamescalifornia2964 threaded brass pipe is better.
@@fixerupperer / That would be awesome. Last forever !! 👌
The world needs more people who do the right thing for their fellow humans.We need more considerate people.
Yes, the GC on a job generally relies on the subs to know the minutiae. So the GCs only know the basics (hard to know every trade's ins and outs), and so they rely on the subs and inspectors to catch issues, but things like water proofing, flashing, air sealing, using correct fasteners, adhesives, etc. are not always inspected. Also design, which is incredibly important in both HVAC and plumbing, is definitely not taken into account in most spec. homes, where cost and speed are king.
@@MyFortressConstruction That's why they should promote from the bottom up
Good video, I was actually looking for what happens if you use an expand tool on Pex B instead of A. Those crimps were pretty shitty. But that's probably closer to the norm then the exception, especially in remodels with no inspection. Like you said, those fittings are so forgiving those will still last many many years.
What did you find out with your question? I don't think the B will shrink back.
You can crimp A pex . But do not expand B pex to go on expansion fittings. You would be counting on the expansion rings only to go back to size not B pex. If you expand just right it can work but definitely not recommended. A pex is special with its memory to go back to size.
In 1987, I discovered an empty Quart Beer Bottle between 2 studs in a wall corner of my 1970 built place. I had taken the drywall down to correct an issue with the front entrance doorway. There was no door header!! The framing carpenter had rested a double joist stairway beam onto a single 2X4 over the door opening... 3:40 is a "Quart Bottle" mistake & 10:50 probably 3 Quarts. Imagine how many Quart Bottles were left behind since.
When using the copper rings I use a pair of pliers to squeeze the ring a little so that the ring does not move before crimping
I just squeeze the ring a little with my teeth.
Nice idea, but apparently that can make the ring OUT OF a circle alignment so NOW it's MORE likely to leak
@@heyitsrick01 you only squeeze it very lightly and they do not leak.
The only way it would leak if you squeeze it to much.
In the early 90's our shop switched to Uponor (expandable) Pex systems. We all met with a Uponor representative so he could demonstrate how to properly install it. We all received a certification and never looked back. I plumbed a 7 bathroom mansion in La Canada Flintridge Ca. back in 2008. 4 tankless water heaters and miles of Pex. Had only one leak where a wood shaving got into a joint somehow....took 5 mins to repair. Never heard from anyone since.
I walked another water front mansion in Laguna Beach Ca. during it's framing stage and almost ready for drywall. ALL the metal crimp rings had what looked like a layer of rust. Yikes! (Salt water is harsh on just about everything)
Wow. I don't do this type of pex. But it's good to know. This is why prefer cold expansion connections. PEX A Awesome video. Thank.
I've seen a video where they got a Uponor fittings and used a machine to try to pull them apart, it didn't. The pipe stretched out and the fitting never came lose at all. Once Uponor fittings contracts, it's impossible for them to come lose.
It's unfortunate how expensive the system is.
It sucks that you can pressure test the system and have not leaked at that time, and that is why I like copper
If an installer puts half the attention and care into a pex joint that they put into a properly done solder joint there really shouldnt be an issue.
Ive worked on a big remodel job. A house plumbed with copper that held pressure for a while(hours or a day maybe) and seemed fine initially. A line burst when noone was around for hours and caused a good bit of damage to subfloors etc. Turns out a 1/2" fitting got prepped and fluxed but not sweated. Was a tight enough fit and sat long enough with flux on it before getting pressurized that it held pressure (probably 50 psi+) for hours with possibly a tiny drip. It wasnt one of my joints, I believe i wasnt soldering yet with that company.
Love those Holdrite brackets.. Should try the new EvoPEX for Pex, no worries about proper installation depth and 25 year warranty
Yes, I don't know much about evopex though I have used their caps before. I just don't trust anything that is a push fitting inside of a wall.
This has to be removed and start over, what kinda hack would pipe like that ?
It is Pex-B, which is very popular now
An American plumber
Been using pex since it came out. No problems with a close crimp.
Ridiculous
No professional would ever do that kind of work
I prefer the smaller diameter pipe to the tub if the water heater is tankless. Then simply install ball valves in the hot & cold feeds downstairs to set the flow rate.
Sorry, but there isn't a single reason I can think of that would make doing that a positive. Whether it's a tankless or a regular heater, you are going to use the same volume to fill your tub. I have never known anyone to want to fill their tub slowly. That wastes time and energy. Also, most tankless heaters have a minimum flow rate before they activate so higher flow rates aren't an issue unless you undersize your tankless. The additional ball valves and restriction on fill rate is easily avoidable by using 12" of copper or equivalent ID pipe.
@@MyFortressConstruction The newer tub valves do not allow the user to modulate the flow to the tub. Many residences don't have the needed gas volume available but do have the needed service amperage for a 3 gpm tankless heater, with the tub being the only tap over 3 gpm. It's no fun bathing in cool water.
@@Cotronixco If you are undersizing equipment like that then it is much better to stick with a traditional tank heater because they will be disappointed with a tub that can only fill at 3-5 gpm (6-10 min to fill up). There are a million ways to jerry-rig something, but the proper way is going to be the most user friendly.
@@MyFortressConstruction Generally I would agree, but you are making too many assumptions. Not all installations are cookie-cutter. In this case, the tankless works very well for all situations except filling the tub.
@@Cotronixco I have to deal with a lot of weird situations in remodels and I have never come across a situation where I couldn't use a full size, or dual heater setup and maintain a regular flow rate to a tub. Sometimes it's more work such as rerouting the main, but something like a slow filling tub can cause years of frustration to the occupant. I stay away from electric tankless in remodels because of this very issue. In fact, I stay away from electric tankless period. Gas tankless, or hybrid electric are the way to go. Point of use are fine in office spaces or shops, but whole home water heating systems need to be designed well.
Did any of these fittings actually leak? I know the plastic fittings can easily break . I ALWAYS use brass.
We've had big issues with the brass fittings around our area because of the corrosion issue. leaks within 5 years from the brass fitting swelling from corrosion and in some cases actually breaking the rings. While poly fittings are weaker, they are plenty strong enough if the pex is properly hung and supported, which mediocre plumbers rarely do.
I was worried that I might not do a good job, but not anymore, thank you for the explanation!
Yeah, you'll do fine. Just review the manufacturer instructions and you'll be off to the races. Couple of reminders:
Don't leave it in the sun for more than a day (try not to at all).
Oversize your PEX (3/4" PEX has about the same flow rate as 1/2" copper).
Make clean cuts and straight crimps.
Try to keep fittings to a minimum as they reduce flowrate and add the possibility of a leak.
Thats why I use Uponor with shrink rings instead of metal crimps. I don't know how you can say these crimps are less error prone than Uponor. This wouldn't happen with Uponor.
If I said they were less error prone, that would be a mistake. Expansion fittings for Pex-A are much more user friendly to install, which is why plumbers prefer it. What I mean in the video is that Uponor fittings are more likely to leak than Crimp rings if they were both installed correctly. Pex-B has a higher burst rating than Pex-A and if there is movement on the line, or if it is exposed to heat or cold, Pex-A is more likely to develop a leak over time.
@@MyFortressConstruction Pex-A should only use crimps and Pex-B can use either Uponor expansion rings or crimps? Is that the difference noted?
@@DevilTravels PEX-A is a much more flexible pex tubing that uses expansion fittings like Uponor. You can't use crimp fittings on pex A. PEX-B is what you will find in big box stores and it's less flexible and utilizes SS cinch, SS crimp or copper crimp rings. Pex-A is easier to install if you have a battery powered expansion tool, PEX-B is easier for the homeowner because it only requires a $50 manual crimper. Pex-B is better in my opinion for it's durability and strength.
@@MyFortressConstruction Thanks for this information. It seems to support other information I am getting.
It looks like PEX-B and crimping is the direction I will go for my cabin plumbing.
I just need to make sure the crimp is directly over the 2 nubs on the brass connectors.
@@MyFortressConstruction - you can use crimp fittings on Uponor PEX-A piping. Any tubing labeled SDR-9 can be crimped. Uponor is the only tubing that can be expanded, but its also SDR-9.
This is brutal. Exactly why I don't like to hire out. Frequently, I give a light crimp first, so the ring and pipe stay in place. Then, I recheck and adjust if necessary before giving it the full crimp. If there's a problem, I fix it before moving to the next joint.
Thanks for the close up video.
In your explanation, try to indicate with a pencil instead of a finger.
Really? Don’t be so picky
Actually, that's not a bad idea, thanks.
The most important rule for ped b is always go up 1/4 in size than code says. Code states its size based off the id of copper pipe. It takes 3/4 pex b to have the same id as 1/2 copper because of the fittings for pex. I use pex a and typically only need two or three fittings which helps flow.
I do size up, but you don't need to size up with everything. Most valves and fittings in a house restrict the flow of water to smaller than what 1/2" pex-B will be able to provide. It's only an issue when you are providing enough volume to a high flow faucet like a tub filler, or multiple fixtures are feeding off the same line. While it's not a perfect formula, due to fittings, length of pipe and psi coming into the house, my rule of thumb is 1/2" pex can provide a maximum of 5 gpm and 3/4 pex can provide 10 gpm. That's if the run isn't more than 30' or so from the main trunk/manifold. The longer the run, the more the psi drops at those flow rates. If I am putting in a tub filler then I am bringing over two 3/4" lines (hot and cold) and connecting to a TMV which will have 3/4" npt connections anyways and I don't have any issues since most fillers are between 8-14 gpm. Hot and cold 1/2" pex lines going to a shower valve with one shower head is totally fine too since it only requires 2.5 gpm. Where I see people complaining is when a 1/2" trunk line is servicing an entire bathroom. At least use 3/4" to each branch...
You’re never supposed to bend pex off of a fitting, you’re supposed to clamp and then you can make up to 22.5 degree turn.
Yeah, you would think it would be common sense. Flexible pipe needs support.
I was looking for this thank you!
I’m a beginner with pex I take my time do it right the first time and done my dad taught me before he passed away but now his legend
Is in my hands pex has been easy for me now great video
Yeah, slow and steady. No need to rush when it's so quick and simple.
Good presentation, clearly explained. One small suggestion-- when detailing what is wrong with a PEX connection, your camera should be much closer, if possible. The tape measure sequence was OK, but hard to see which rib on the connector was the problem. For the beginner, a closer shot will make crooked angles and close tolerances much easier to see. We subscribed and liked.
Thanks for that, I am trying to improve my videography skills. Practice makes perfect!
@@MyFortressConstruction actually you did good. I know very little about pex but I found each error almost as soon as I seen it. Thanks for the information!
Should’ve use pinch clasps on those elbows. You can tell they tried to use a crimper at an angle where it wouldn’t go over by the wall/plate guide. Hence the crooked rings. Great video!
The majority of those connections wouldn't have had an issue. The only time I've seen pex leak is when I forget to crimp it.
Re-watch around the 8 minute mark, then delete this comment
What about the long run my friend, it's meant to last not to seal for 5 years or so
Four seasons where I live so there's lots of chances for expansion to do what he's explaining, I've also never seen it happen, I'm sure it's possible, I've had faulty PEX crimps where the tab wasn't bent enough from the factory just from one brand and only a couple batches maybe 10 years ago.
9:51 You mentioned that the half-inch pex line going down to the tub spout is too restricted. I think you can fix that also by just using Sharkbite max fittings that grab the pex on the outside rather than reducing the pex flow down to like 3/8" on the inside, which is what you have here.
6:50 that top pipe looks like it's been sitting in the sun.
Yeah, that was something I didn't mention. Some of the pipe was bleached, and as you probably know, uv light and pex don't mix. Or rather, chlorine and uv degraded pex don't mix.
Good eye sir. If so, there will be pin holes in no time.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, I wish everybody would be honest and work correctly.
Thank you for this video. Learning a big thing for free.
8:45 - I think it's more likely that whoever installed the Uponor didn't turn their tool 1/4 inch all around when making the expansion. Pex Crimps and Clamps get weak over time as crimping or clamping is forcing the pipe against its natural state. Uponor pipes naturally want to be its original size and you have to force it to expand to put the fitting in. However, if you don't push the pipe all the way in or don't expand it correctly (1/4 turn all around when expanding), that's when you get your leaks.
The A also does not restrict the water flow, is more flexible and higher pressure at the cost of being 4 times more toxic than B!
@@solarsynapse, you got any proof that Pex-A is 4x more toxic than Pex-B?
@@purplepill2024 Do a search and you will find several studies about PEX toxins. The more flexible A leaches more than the less flexible B. It becomes worse with hot water. I think many of the chemicals were in the water itself. Keep in mind that PEX has less data since it has not been around as long as other types of pipe. It still passes "safety" standards except maybe in California. Some of that is due to the lead in the brass fittings.
Chlorine is toxic to all lifeforms, is highly corrosive to metal and causes plastic to become brittle, yet it is used widely in water treatment. Copper is a nutritional supplement, plastic is not. Of course it is bad if lead solder was used instead of silver!
I would say use PEX B, don't drink any water for 30 days after installation, and don't drink any water from the hot side. Also, if a faucet has not been used for over a week, run the water to flush the line before drinking. Filtering is always good. As always, to each their own.
@@solarsynapse Pex was first used (although not for home plumbing) since the 60s, that's plenty of time to gather data. Furthermore, if a simple Google search can't yield any credible sources along with you not being able to provide one simple link - I call BS on your claim.
Thanks for sharing this information. Do you still use the same crimp rings?
Yes I do! Just plumbed a whole house all in Pex-B (except in a couple spot where I wanted some straight pieces of 1" and had to buy Pex-A. Still use the same fittings and rings for it though.
Great video, thanks for posting! I did have a question, though. Years past, I used a crimping tool that came with two different “go” and “no go” gauges. As long as the ring fit into the “go” range, one was good, at least I thought. I’ve been reading about over-crimping and cannot find any info as to what the cons may be. I figure the tighter the fitting is, the better, right? The Apollo crimp tool I recently bought comes with the same gauge tool you touched on. Are the lines between “go” and “no go” supposed to line up in the middle of the ring once crimped? And again, if the ring goes all the way in, what’s the harm? I’ve crimped a few couplings that spin once the ring is on, having passed the gauge test, but it worries me. From other comments, it appears that’s normal. The Apollo tool comes with a pressure gauge from 0-3. Any suggestions on where to set it for 1/2” pex rings? At 0, it seemed to fit perfectly based on your video, but again, if the fitting can twist, it makes me nervous it may pop off. Sorry for rambling - any help is appreciated!
I have never had to calibrate a crimp tool, but you are correct in the assumption that if the ring fits in the "go" section of the gauge after crimping, then it is good. So you can spin a fitting after crimping if you have to, but I prefer not to unless there's no way to avoid it. If the line spins freely, with no initial tightness, then I would think the ring isn't crimped how it should be. As for over crimping, I've never heard of that since jaws limit themselves for the most part, but I suppose there could be a set out there like yours that aren't machined to limit themselves. If in doubt, I would call the manufacturer.
@@MyFortressConstruction The only ones I could see that could overset are the ones that have "attachments" that you put on for the different sizes. The ones I have, like you said, just have a physical limit. But they say they CAN be adjusted if too tight. 🤔
I like your presentation. I work in a hardware store. We sell a lot of crimp, cinch and push on shark bite connections. What is your opinion on each?
Shark bite are fine in an exposed location, but I don't trust them in a wall. The O-rings will harden and form to the pipe and when it gets bumped or twisted it can start leaking a little. Experience would say a single O-rings is not as solid as a full copper or SS crimp. Copper crimp rings have been used for decades and work really well by providing a continuous ring of pressure around the fitting, but are difficult to get into the right spot, or a tight spot. The SS cinch rings are easier to cinch down in tight spaces because the jaws don't have to go around the fitting, they only require one tool for the primary sizes, and I haven't heard anything bad about them. I don't use the SS cinch rings because the track record for copper rings is good and I can rest easy with them.
My word this is atrocious. I hope this guy got paid nothing more than maybe material for just the pex tubing. I can practically hear the air quotes when you said "professional plumber".
Pex is very forgiving most of those aren’t good but probably won’t leak
Exactly
That’s why you don’t let the new guy crimp the pex, whoever made that mess clearly hasn’t even written his first block
Good plumbing info, but what's this funky building? Steel garage conversion to house? Bardominium? How will the exterior walls be insulated?
Yeah, it's a barndominium and they spray foamed the exterior walls. It's a lazy way to get a tight house. Unfortunately people don't think about the humidity they're trapping when building like that and will find they need to undersize their A/C for dehumidification purposes and install an ERV to remove stale air.
looks like they cut the pex with their teeth.. 🤣🤣... you should get a refund on...🤣🤣👋.. when I install the shower valves I do all the connections with copper..
Thank you for such an awesome video, I am about to replace old galvanize pipes with PEX and my knowledge is limited to copper piping.
Glad you enjoyed. PEX-A or B are great products if installed correctly.
@@MyFortressConstruction Nobody seems to mention the toxic LEACHING onto our water from the PEX........... DUH NOT TOO COOL when we're POISONING ourselves AND. if this stuff can last MAYBE 20 years.......... duh, we'll be ripping apart our homes & replumbing everything & repairing all the damage from leaks... DOESN"T seem like a valuable product... sure it may be simple, but the problems overshadow the seeming benefits... PERSONALLY I think I'd rather go with copper... Besides, COPPER is a natural germ killer of anything in the water...
@@heyitsrick01 some pex leaches more than others. There have been some hurdles(like dezincification) but properly installed it should last a lot more than twenty years. In Some water conditions copper wont do anywhere close to twenty years. Yes the antimicrobial action of copper is mostly a plus.
I prefer copper over PEX. It’s expensive but worth it. If you screw up, just resolder it no fittings to throw away. Also, you will find out that you made a mistake right away once you do a leak check instead of later down the road and paying up to tens of thousands of dollars for water damage. Also, copper is anti microbial.
Noticed con plates on the studs to protect the pex piping
Use Uponor, problem solved.
Yes, Uponor is usually a plumber's choice. I have a feeling the plumber told his apprentice to do this job and said, "Good luck!"
Thanks for the info. Especially about the tub spout.👍👍
Guess you don't do many houses to know upon does not work in a lot of homes during rough in
@@jerrywhite2818 Been plumbing for almost a quarter of a century. That's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I've roughed in many homes with Uponor and I've repipe many existing homes with uponor.
Every bit of that job looks horrible I’d rip it all out and do it over
I like to use a manifold system, probably more pipe will be required but less fittings required=less potential leaks+greater pressure due to less fittings.
Yes, pros to a manifold is the ability to isolate individual fixtures and have less fittings (if designed correctly) in a wall. Cons would be that it's difficult to plumb with a recirculation pump and you wind up using more water when turning on fixtures that need hot (again, it could be minimalized with good design).
Like any system, thought needs to be given for a good design from start to finish.
At least they didn't use sharkbites, I guess?
Haha, yes... Many diyers say they can *DYI* (Do Yourself In)
What's wrong with sharkbite fittings?
@@kmcwhq They are ok for temporary fittings, and sometimes they can last for years, but they are never going to be as solid as crimp or expandable connections.
@@MyFortressConstruction So not as solid, but solid enough.
@@kmcwhq Yeah, let's just say I would only use them in places that won't be covered by sheetrock/paneling. I have never seen one explode, but I have seen about a dozen leaking drops of water. I would definitely not use them on a hot water line as the heat could degrade the rubber seal faster.
These are very informative. Thanks a lot, a month ago i tried pex and failed because i didnot maintained the 1/4 gap. Question to you, 1) if i crimp and if i am not confident can i do one more crimp (double).. 2) what happens if it is oval and reason behind oval crimp. Appreciate your help.
Yeah, so you can't double crimp. It would probably seal it, but you would risk damaging the tubing by crimping near the edge. Eventually it could rupture or leak. You're asking for trouble when you go outside manufacturer's recommended instructions. As for oval, that means your crimper isn't calibrated correctly and needs to be recalibrated by adjusting the screws that hold the jaws in the correct position. And yes, the rings have to be spaced from 1/8 -1/4" away from the end of the tubing. I shoot for 3/16 spacing. Using some pliers to press the ring slightly, once it's on the tubing and fitting, will make it easier to crimp in the right location.
Since the beginning I thought PEX A was a superior product.
I actually prefer Pex-B but Pex-A does have its pros, mainly it's installation ease.
My Fortress Construction why do you prefer pex b? Only benefit I see is you can buy fittings at box stores.
@@krehbein It's faster to install, when you know how to do it, and I have only had one leak from a bad fitting in all of my time of using it, and that leak was evident immediately after pressurizing. It is a more durable pipe and it's easier to work on for homeowners. It's cheaper and parts are more easily sourced. You do have to think ahead about which crimps need to be made first, but that's not rocket science.
My Fortress Construction Good to know. Im have a pex a Dewalt expander, and enjoy working with it. But if I need parts can only get them at a local plumbing supply shop or online. Sometimes using Home Depot would be easier.
My Fortress Construction More durable than PexA? That’s absolutely not true. Uponor is more durable by a large, large margin. PexA is superior in basically every way it matters.
Are you telling me that the tub flow control valve is only a mixing valve allowing the hot and cold to flow proportionately, while having an open port to both the tub spout and the the shower outlet ? Why don't they make a composite valve or do they, that allows for water temperature adjustment and selected flow of either shower or tub ? Or is the cheaper method the basic valve you are illustrating and then correctly plumbing it as the default application ?
Yeah you got it. It is simply a chamber that allows the two to mix but it will flow to either one until the knob on the spigot is pulled up. There are a plethora of different valves made by different companies. This is the delta r10000 rough in valve, but you can get cartridges that will allow the flow to be controlled separate from the temperature in a single valve. There are also diverter valves that could do what you're saying and act like a ball valve where they send the water one way of the other and that would allow for a smaller diameter pipe since it didn't rely on gravity. This is just by far the most common valve you will find and with PEX being used more and more you will find it being used on the tub spout side which is a no-no and causes the aforementioned dripping out of the shower head from backed up pressure.
That was a "professional" plumber? :(
Nope that’s a plumber that is a fly by night, drives an old Ford F-150 sport pickup truck with a ladder rack. Comes into your house and has a fila sweatshirt on and a dirty hat on. Then won’t show up everyday because he is 30 years old and is worried about drinking cheap beer at night and having domestics with his pregnant dirty girlfriend that has pink hair and wears dirty Walmart Ug boots in the summertime.
@@bababooey1266 oddly specific🤔
I tried scrolling but couldnt find the answer.
For the tub you said 1/2" was too narrow for flow. What would you upsize to in PEX?
And would you also upsize the shower head pipe?
You can use 1/2" galvanized iron, or 1/2" copper for the spout leg. Technically you can also use 3/4" pex, but you'd have to get a 1/2" fnpt to 3/4 pex adapter (unless the valve you use has a different threaded port) and then 3/4 pex to 1/2" fnpt drop ear elbow. If you can't solder then galvanized iron is the simplest way, as those pex adapters are specialized and you'd have to order the 3/4-1/2" drop ear elbow.
I was wondering how the plumber passed the exam ?
exam lol...
I see that the pipe running through the 2x4s also don't have nail plates to protect them either.
This makes me so mad, if you do it, do it like you should, or just never do it and