god i would LOVE if they put out a statement with every released character saying "we're going to watch how this character develops. In 2 months we will adjust them if needed, to align with our design goals and the community's feedback." i feel like it would free them up a ton to take more risks on release
i still love him though. as a potemkin player, the low tier isnt new to me. really wish slayers backdash was better though, and his abare conversions aint that good either
I think this is a problem where the competitive aspect of the fighting games is at odds with the 'fun' aspect of fighting games. Most competitive players seem to prefer a stable meta over frequent patches and I completely understand why. As a low to middling level player who doesn't compete, patches are an exciting event for me because I love exploring options and a patch could potentially bring new possibilities to characters, moves, or situations that were previously overlooked. However for a competitive player a patch means a lot of extra work in practising new matchups and situations. Also some people just prefer to see the meta develop over time in a more organic way and not have to worry about patches interfering with that. With that said, I'd wish both players and developers could come to a more unified consensus about the state of the game and if a patch is needed soon or can wait. Probably not possible in the current environment though.
A big reason I stopped playing games like league because they just wouldn't stop changing the game (like once a month or every 2 weeks). I personally love fighting games because they let the game breathe long enough for people to figure out what's good and bad and then figure out how to play around it.
I'm indifferent to the patches really. I mostly play indie fighting games and every time they patch and update, there's always n w stuff to discover. Though anytime i think about big companies potentially doing stuff like community based patches, I just imagine what happened with KI where if they didn't buff/nerf the way top players wanted, they'd complain and people would lobby for buffs and nerfs for characters which got in the way of the actual balancing. The other side is the competitive vs casual for balancing I feel because completive wants a balanced meta, while casuals prefer a more explosive one.
I don't mind the one/two major patches a year, but I also wish we had a few minor patches that addressed major outliers. There's no reason Happy Chaos, Nier, Leeroy, etc. needed to exist for 6 months before taking small meaningful nerfs. Pot, Bed et al would be better off with regular, small buffs than trying to swing for the fences once a year and just "hope" that the didn't over/under buff (which is almost always the case).
I remember newer players during launch strive thought that Nago and Zato were bad cause it wasn't immediately obvious how strong they were. Turns out they were top teir once figured out. I'm only looking towards a patch that takes zato out of the trash so I can have fun with my favorite character without feeling that I made a mistake that cost me the match at character select.
huh, I didn't know that the high tiers were talking about Happy Chaos like that! I came in to playing ggst around EVERYONE knowing that HC was pretty broken, but I always hear everyone say the same ol same ol "oh people thought HC was bad"
as much as I'd like faster patch cycles, I'm scared to ask for them because I've seen what league of legends patching looks like and I don't want that in a fighting game
5:28 this is kinda the crux of the whole thing for me. Its understandable they started weakening DLC characters post Happy Chaos, but then having to wait months for a CHANCE at them to not be weak is killer. Johnny's only change since his release was that he could dash jump and some changes to how Mist Finer launches. Like c'mon, its been half a year since his release.
"This patch should only focus on buffing johnny and asphalt" Arc sys: "Wow, no one uses Ram in tournaments, we have to buff her more" I wouldn't be surprised if elphelt doesn't get any changes because "she got released too recently"
Yeah this is the main thing that annoys me about releasing a character too weak. Obviously releasing them busted as shit kinda ruins everyone's time but when they come out obviously underturned it kinda kills the hype of the character and then they're just completely irrelevant for several months as the devs refuse to touch them until the following year.
i can't know if it is enough, but i know what feels bad. Like it sucks to be left resorceless and rewardless for landing a super. It sucks to have your whole meter sucked by a specialy lenghy grab like Faust's. i rather a character that feels cohesive than a character that is good.
Maybe for things that are broken or adjustments but as a casual if the character I play change every month or two I just drop the game I dont have time to learn something just for them to change and that thing not be true anymore. Maybe it would be good for pros but for casual could be a nightmare.
This would matter way more for pros than casuals, most casuals cant even play their characther correctly. They will barely even notice slight changes to their characther
@@hope3leep1 I had a group of friends that played fighting games but stoped because How frequent patches change things that for them took a long to learn like combos stoping working to things they learn to punish changing during patches. Some of them stop during KI and others in SFV.
I wanted to say, gently, that *most* casual players, players that aren't doing things like regularly practicing with the intention of winning consistently and improving in higher level competitive settings over some time, aren't going to notice the kinds of changes or fixes being talked about. if it is something kinda busted, so much that casuals are also doing it, it probably needs to be changed because that's something that impacts how the game is fundamentally played. but otherwise I agree that fundamentally changing a character from patch to patch would be frustrating, which thankfully isn't the case most of the time. this would've been a problem in something more like, RESPECTFULLY, ssbu. I am a casualcore player of that game, and when they nerfed certain things about hero, bowser, or kk rool, I felt them IMMEDIATELY, and it made playing them less fun. a really specific change I remember was the way the changed who loses a stock first based on what move is done. that was so gd annoying lol. and I'm not one of those players that doesn't consider ssbu a "real fighting game." it is. period. I just wanted to pop in and say that before ppl got weird and dismissive b/c this is a legit concern. when I was first learning how to actually play tekken in 5, there were changes made to law in dark resurrection that threw me off b/c The One Combo That I Knew How To Do didn't work anymore, but that was a long time ago. A whole game revision with a new hard box release, lol. it's hard to talk about FGs sometimes and not get bombarded with ignorance and elitism as a casual, so I wanted to make sure that I acknowledged what you were saying and offered clarity into more of what was actually being discussed, as a casual-core competitive player myself, lol. that being said, making games is hard, and fighting games are a specific brand of goofy to develop and design. arcsys prob does downtune dlc characters to give them space to develop, but the patch timings probably need to be sped up b/c it makes situations where there are glaring problems for certain characters in very specific situations that causes them to not be used in high level competitive play. for casuals, things like tier lists usually don't matter b/c you're not playing the game the same way. you're not engaging with the mechanics in specific ways. as a casual, a game like fist of the north star is a fun and balanced game, actually lol. none of the basketball gameplay ever mattered to me, and that's fine too. like I said, making games is legit hard.
@@Mclucasrv just seeing this lol. it can be frustrating for sure when you're first learning how to play a fg competitively. I compare it to learning a language. you have to learn to be adaptive. it sounds like those friends were on their way to becoming more competitive oriented, which is amazing, and I hope they found other games to give that attention to b/c fighting games really are cool and fun!~
This is more about how you change things, not when. In the case of improving a character who is weak, it would only lead to having new fun things to do and not removing or changing what you have to do. In many cases, also making them easier to play and enjoy.
I just honestly cant wait for the nago changes, like seriously. I played the nago vs ABA mu and she is literally better nago. She has better movement and better damage, and as well as having a better timestop compared to nago bloodrage. When Nago is in install he loses so much HP while ABA doesnt. It seriously concerns me the direction they are going with ABA, she is clearly going to be top tier as her normal mode and install are exceptional. ABA is overtuned. Nago is weak, when will he ever win a major? when will he get his high damage conversions again? Beyblade -3??? this game is a joke.
@shunpo5394 fax brother, spit your shit indeed. when i realized elphelt is just a better chipp and johnny is a direct upgrade from ram (i mean 9 frame far slash? really?) it completely changed me
@@crppledizzle9374 you are literally my goal goat. other than nebwnhmr. fax machine. Nago buffs when. Also I hate johnny this patch!! his f.s literally beats half of my buttons in my already medicore roundstart haha
As valid as your thought pieces are, I'm genuinely convinced you have the quietest videos on this website. I have to open up volume mixer and ramp up chrome to max output to hear you, meanwhile any SFX placed in your video (like the pokemon UI select noises) are painfully loud.
Any music or sound effects I use are considerably lower audio in my audio mixer so that's strange. As for my voice, I'm a naturally quiet person and purposefully turn my mic audio up. I'll try to look into it some more
What I don’t like about the patch system is that it removes player agency. Instead of learning intricacies of a character some people will go “the devs will fix it”. Then when patches eventually come and reality doesn’t align with expectations people get mad or disappointed. Instead of becoming better we expect to be made better.
The video is mostly referring to improving weak characters or things more obviously out of line along with the fact it does not take as long to figure things out as some people suggest. No amount of playtime was going to make Bedman not terrible, he's still bad now despite buffs in fact.
Internet has solved the genre too much? Welcome to the same problem RTS has had for years (and card games to an extent). I hope people dont go too far in the other direction and forget "fun" is important too, not just balance, thats what happened to RTS for years that killed it.
god i would LOVE if they put out a statement with every released character saying "we're going to watch how this character develops. In 2 months we will adjust them if needed, to align with our design goals and the community's feedback." i feel like it would free them up a ton to take more risks on release
Coming from the future to say Slayer has released and is the worst character in the game
Hope this ages well cause he'll still be a piece of shit that kills you in one hit
i still love him though. as a potemkin player, the low tier isnt new to me. really wish slayers backdash was better though, and his abare conversions aint that good either
I'm from the farthest future and I came here to say this comment didn't age well
@zhenyaloginov cause he still gonna kill us in one hit BDC or not
I'm from even a farest future, here to tell that Dr.Paradagim is the worst character in the game
Also, nerf Robo Ky II
I think this is a problem where the competitive aspect of the fighting games is at odds with the 'fun' aspect of fighting games. Most competitive players seem to prefer a stable meta over frequent patches and I completely understand why.
As a low to middling level player who doesn't compete, patches are an exciting event for me because I love exploring options and a patch could potentially bring new possibilities to characters, moves, or situations that were previously overlooked. However for a competitive player a patch means a lot of extra work in practising new matchups and situations. Also some people just prefer to see the meta develop over time in a more organic way and not have to worry about patches interfering with that.
With that said, I'd wish both players and developers could come to a more unified consensus about the state of the game and if a patch is needed soon or can wait. Probably not possible in the current environment though.
A big reason I stopped playing games like league because they just wouldn't stop changing the game (like once a month or every 2 weeks). I personally love fighting games because they let the game breathe long enough for people to figure out what's good and bad and then figure out how to play around it.
It becomes tiring to be waiting for a patch. I wish they would do small patches in between the large ones to manage things like the DLC characters
I'm indifferent to the patches really. I mostly play indie fighting games and every time they patch and update, there's always n w stuff to discover.
Though anytime i think about big companies potentially doing stuff like community based patches, I just imagine what happened with KI where if they didn't buff/nerf the way top players wanted, they'd complain and people would lobby for buffs and nerfs for characters which got in the way of the actual balancing.
The other side is the competitive vs casual for balancing I feel because completive wants a balanced meta, while casuals prefer a more explosive one.
I don't mind the one/two major patches a year, but I also wish we had a few minor patches that addressed major outliers. There's no reason Happy Chaos, Nier, Leeroy, etc. needed to exist for 6 months before taking small meaningful nerfs. Pot, Bed et al would be better off with regular, small buffs than trying to swing for the fences once a year and just "hope" that the didn't over/under buff (which is almost always the case).
TBF, Nier existed for around three months.
I remember newer players during launch strive thought that Nago and Zato were bad cause it wasn't immediately obvious how strong they were. Turns out they were top teir once figured out.
I'm only looking towards a patch that takes zato out of the trash so I can have fun with my favorite character without feeling that I made a mistake that cost me the match at character select.
Cry me a river snowflake. Zato is still stupid good, get to work and optimize him instead of complaining
huh, I didn't know that the high tiers were talking about Happy Chaos like that! I came in to playing ggst around EVERYONE knowing that HC was pretty broken, but I always hear everyone say the same ol same ol "oh people thought HC was bad"
as much as I'd like faster patch cycles, I'm scared to ask for them because I've seen what league of legends patching looks like and I don't want that in a fighting game
5:28 this is kinda the crux of the whole thing for me. Its understandable they started weakening DLC characters post Happy Chaos, but then having to wait months for a CHANCE at them to not be weak is killer. Johnny's only change since his release was that he could dash jump and some changes to how Mist Finer launches. Like c'mon, its been half a year since his release.
I agree with literally this entire statement. Nothing to add~
you made some very good points, however i dont wanna learn new stuff every 2 months cmonnnn 😭
"This patch should only focus on buffing johnny and asphalt"
Arc sys: "Wow, no one uses Ram in tournaments, we have to buff her more"
I wouldn't be surprised if elphelt doesn't get any changes because "she got released too recently"
I may have quit strive, but I'll never quit SQ youtube content
🐐
Smaller, more frequent balance patches > bigger, less frequent balance patches
Yeah this is the main thing that annoys me about releasing a character too weak. Obviously releasing them busted as shit kinda ruins everyone's time but when they come out obviously underturned it kinda kills the hype of the character and then they're just completely irrelevant for several months as the devs refuse to touch them until the following year.
And its kinda simple too, just give oki on Mohona mode reversal super and reduced meter drain on getting thrown.
I don't think this is enough to fix her personally but it would at least help haha
i can't know if it is enough, but i know what feels bad.
Like it sucks to be left resorceless and rewardless for landing a super.
It sucks to have your whole meter sucked by a specialy lenghy grab like Faust's.
i rather a character that feels cohesive than a character that is good.
Elphelt and Johnny should have gotten buffed W Sq take
Is the background music from pokemon colosseum or am I buggin?
Maybe for things that are broken or adjustments but as a casual if the character I play change every month or two I just drop the game I dont have time to learn something just for them to change and that thing not be true anymore. Maybe it would be good for pros but for casual could be a nightmare.
This would matter way more for pros than casuals, most casuals cant even play their characther correctly. They will barely even notice slight changes to their characther
@@hope3leep1 I had a group of friends that played fighting games but stoped because How frequent patches change things that for them took a long to learn like combos stoping working to things they learn to punish changing during patches. Some of them stop during KI and others in SFV.
I wanted to say, gently, that *most* casual players, players that aren't doing things like regularly practicing with the intention of winning consistently and improving in higher level competitive settings over some time, aren't going to notice the kinds of changes or fixes being talked about. if it is something kinda busted, so much that casuals are also doing it, it probably needs to be changed because that's something that impacts how the game is fundamentally played. but otherwise I agree that fundamentally changing a character from patch to patch would be frustrating, which thankfully isn't the case most of the time.
this would've been a problem in something more like, RESPECTFULLY, ssbu. I am a casualcore player of that game, and when they nerfed certain things about hero, bowser, or kk rool, I felt them IMMEDIATELY, and it made playing them less fun. a really specific change I remember was the way the changed who loses a stock first based on what move is done. that was so gd annoying lol. and I'm not one of those players that doesn't consider ssbu a "real fighting game." it is. period.
I just wanted to pop in and say that before ppl got weird and dismissive b/c this is a legit concern. when I was first learning how to actually play tekken in 5, there were changes made to law in dark resurrection that threw me off b/c The One Combo That I Knew How To Do didn't work anymore, but that was a long time ago. A whole game revision with a new hard box release, lol.
it's hard to talk about FGs sometimes and not get bombarded with ignorance and elitism as a casual, so I wanted to make sure that I acknowledged what you were saying and offered clarity into more of what was actually being discussed, as a casual-core competitive player myself, lol.
that being said, making games is hard, and fighting games are a specific brand of goofy to develop and design. arcsys prob does downtune dlc characters to give them space to develop, but the patch timings probably need to be sped up b/c it makes situations where there are glaring problems for certain characters in very specific situations that causes them to not be used in high level competitive play.
for casuals, things like tier lists usually don't matter b/c you're not playing the game the same way. you're not engaging with the mechanics in specific ways. as a casual, a game like fist of the north star is a fun and balanced game, actually lol. none of the basketball gameplay ever mattered to me, and that's fine too. like I said, making games is legit hard.
@@Mclucasrv just seeing this lol. it can be frustrating for sure when you're first learning how to play a fg competitively. I compare it to learning a language. you have to learn to be adaptive. it sounds like those friends were on their way to becoming more competitive oriented, which is amazing, and I hope they found other games to give that attention to b/c fighting games really are cool and fun!~
This is more about how you change things, not when. In the case of improving a character who is weak, it would only lead to having new fun things to do and not removing or changing what you have to do. In many cases, also making them easier to play and enjoy.
for some cases i think they need to patch quickly like characters being too weak or mechanics being too overtuned .
I just honestly cant wait for the nago changes, like seriously. I played the nago vs ABA mu and she is literally better nago. She has better movement and better damage, and as well as having a better timestop compared to nago bloodrage. When Nago is in install he loses so much HP while ABA doesnt. It seriously concerns me the direction they are going with ABA, she is clearly going to be top tier as her normal mode and install are exceptional. ABA is overtuned. Nago is weak, when will he ever win a major? when will he get his high damage conversions again? Beyblade -3??? this game is a joke.
@@shunpo5394 are you real
@shunpo5394 fax brother, spit your shit indeed.
when i realized elphelt is just a better chipp and johnny is a direct upgrade from ram (i mean 9 frame far slash? really?) it completely changed me
@@crppledizzle9374 you are literally my goal goat. other than nebwnhmr. fax machine. Nago buffs when. Also I hate johnny this patch!! his f.s literally beats half of my buttons in my already medicore roundstart haha
Nago might be worse than baiken I’m ngl …
Character is kinda garbo 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
As valid as your thought pieces are, I'm genuinely convinced you have the quietest videos on this website. I have to open up volume mixer and ramp up chrome to max output to hear you, meanwhile any SFX placed in your video (like the pokemon UI select noises) are painfully loud.
Any music or sound effects I use are considerably lower audio in my audio mixer so that's strange. As for my voice, I'm a naturally quiet person and purposefully turn my mic audio up. I'll try to look into it some more
Dang, does that mean anila isn't gunna get better 😢
What I don’t like about the patch system is that it removes player agency. Instead of learning intricacies of a character some people will go “the devs will fix it”. Then when patches eventually come and reality doesn’t align with expectations people get mad or disappointed. Instead of becoming better we expect to be made better.
Hit the nail on the head.
i dont think you watched the video before making this comment
The video is mostly referring to improving weak characters or things more obviously out of line along with the fact it does not take as long to figure things out as some people suggest. No amount of playtime was going to make Bedman not terrible, he's still bad now despite buffs in fact.
@@SQuirrel147 I see apologies for the misunderstanding and thank you for the correction.
fully agree 👍
Internet has solved the genre too much? Welcome to the same problem RTS has had for years (and card games to an extent). I hope people dont go too far in the other direction and forget "fun" is important too, not just balance, thats what happened to RTS for years that killed it.
Buff I-no 😊
I’m with you, but I do like where she is rn. Honestly the best thing for her would be a sol nerf imo.
I agree.
has there been any confirmation on when the next strive patch is?
uh oh
buff A.B.A
More patches= more fun (usually)
YOO FIRST! once again, your the best with the content thnx you!