Is this Wicca? Or Druidry? | My Irish Paganism | with Lora O'Brien at the Irish Pagan School
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2020
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![[Irish Reaction] Celtic Shamanism, Irish Mysticism & The Faerie Faith | Jonny Enoch | Lora O'Brien](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GQC5OCJxuNY/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video Lora. People are so hung up on labels. Personally my spirituality has been a result of opening myself up to the power that dwells in the land. It’s interesting that the people who have genuinely done that regardless of their background whether it has been Wicca, Druidry, ceremonial magick, Thelema and so on - have all ended up in a remarkably similar place. I’ve used that as my benchmark in judging who I want to work with. Very proud of the platform you’ve worked so hard to achieve.
Thank you Sister x
I'm always amazed how people who do not live ones culture seem to think they know more than those who do.
Came here to learn a little about my roots and it’s disheartening and ugly for her to basically say even if we are full blood Irish but haven’t lived in Ireland we ARENT Irish Lol it this is how Irish ppl act wow. Sad that the very first thing I explore tells me I’m not Irish even though my blood is lol
Weekend nomad...I'm part english and lived in England and....I'm not english. There is alot to say about the culture you grow up in. Blood is well blood. Culture dictates your unconscious behavior. Go to Ireland and see how strange it is........
You blood is NOT what makes you Irish. That is a very dangerous road to start down, for any culture, that ends in high arm salutes and white hoods. None of that here thanks very much!
@@weekendnomad5038 You are (place wherever you were born here) with Irish Descendants.
oh look. colonizers acting like colonizers.
shocking.
not in the least.
your attitudes are telling. you have a lot to unpack.
I loved this video thank you for it!! A note to fellow North Americans.. some of us have an experience with feeling "cultureless". The solution isn't to do what many of our ancestors did or had done to them. WE DO NOT need to assume claim over practices we have not come to respectfully. Learn the language, give back, research/ pay for Indigenous teachings, give back... did I mention give back?
@@chuckfriebe843 when I said fellow North Americans I felt like that would illustrate I'm also north American.. I'm Canadian
@@jessgeoghegan ok, but even though you have an Irish last name, you can’t be in her inner circle because you’re not Irish. The content creator’s whole thing is that being Irish is what allows you to practice “real” Irish Magick. So, sorry, but you don’t count as one of the chosen few.
@@chuckfriebe843 I don't mean to be rude but its as if we haven't even watched the same video. You seem to have had your ego bruised somewhere along the way. The idea of being special because someone is (insert ethnicity) is so strange.. and at worst its prejudice. My husband is Irish and I elected to take his name when we married.. the fact that I'm mostly genetically Irish in terms of heritage has nothing to do with who I am... its just a possible indicator at best (as in could identify where i spent most of my life). If you say that someone's identity is based on their blood alone of where the people who preceded them happened to be born then why not go back further before there were country borders? Why pick this moment in time other then to further your own gnosis ..whats wrong with saying I'm Canadian (Turtle Island to some) and have Irish heritage. When someone says to my husband.. "o you're Irish, me too!" and he then excitedly then asks "what county are you from?!" And they say "o well like I'm not like from there.. my great grandma was from Cork".. he then looks dejected and confused.. if your hair is blue and you say its not and we can all see your hair is brown it just isn't factually true... I may be considered Irish one day not because I want a title but because it will naturally occure.. as in I will hopefully live in Ireland for many many years and participate in the social culture. The only reason I can see you being so upset with the video is because you've misunderstood it and you're REALLY upset your not Irish.. seems weird.. also I just think you missed the videos point.
@@chuckfriebe843 I don't speak for anyone but myself but I think most would agree in NO WAY shape or form is anything in this content advocating for establishing bloodlines...AT ALL. From what i can see it's quite the opposite. Being apart of a culture or ethnic group that you weren't born in or spent a significant amount of time in seems to be about participating respectfully and listening to lived experience.. I honestly don't understand why you have such an issue here. It's not a club house no one is holding keys to a secret room.. no one says your appropriating anything if your respectfully including practices from an open practice.. (unless your talking about something else from another conversation that I'm unaware of).. Honestly it sounds like someone said something to you you didn't like and now your having a tantrum. One of the core things I've learned from this community is you don't have to be white to be Irish.. You don't have to be born in Ireland to be Irish.. How is that IN ANY way similar to people using Germanic Magic to be racists.. its not. Your just mad about something lol.. And you know what some people who are interested in this form of spirituality/ practice are appropriating it... if your going to throw out baseless remarks (which you have) I'm not interested in debating with you.
“Wicca lite with a Celtic flavor” i think i might freak the fuck out on someone if they said that.
Same. It sounds like a beverage!
Thank you for bringing clarity around such sensitive topic, and reminding again about what your teachings are and what they're not. Definitely NOT the "light Wicca with Celtic flavor" , but clear, sound, and healthy Irish Paganism. GRMMA!
I literally just stared at the screen for a moment in horrified amusement when she read that comment. What the actual.
Many thanks Lora for your guidance. As a Canadian settler (born in Canada, with settler ancestors), with Irish, Scottish and Italian roots, I struggle so profoundly with a sense of not belonging and feeling, I have been on a life long path to connect with what my own heart and spirituality, of course, without appropriating Irish and various other Celtic spiritual identities/practices. I visited Ireland a few years ago, and literally felt as if I was enrobed within an entirely different world. Obviously there is mundane everywhere, but I have never genuinely felt at the deepest level the kind of connection and belonging I experienced when I had visited there. How does one interpret or examine that when not native Irish? I live on Vancouver Island, a place brimming with spirits of place, painful and beautiful histories of the indigenous people here...distinct groups who constantly have their cultures appropriated.
I'm rambling quite a bit now, but just wanted to say thank you always for your guidance. I am nothing if not a patient observer and listener. So the time and heart you put into your videos and website are truly appreciated and cherished by all of us.
It would be impossible for me to find a mentor here, you're who I quietly go to for that.
@@chuckfriebe843 no, actually Lora never says someone isn't Irish enough. She has emphatically stated that having irish ancestry/DNA doesn't give you any rights to the history or culture. It's all about right relationships, show respect for the culture and tradition and learn from authentic irish sources. Obviously you have not been paying attention.
Thank you for asking this question! I live in Nova Scotia which was settled by many Celts and fRENCH. I myself was born in France but lived all my life in Canada, mostly NOva Scotia. I am drawn to Celtic spirituality. How do i do this respectfully? Without appropriation? I want to fit in to the Celtic world here but that's a settler world too with both good and bad tied into it. I don't feel it appropriate to immerse my self in the indigenous spirituality either. I hope someone helps us with this question without the snark as given below.
Thank you for saying this for us to hear. Your courage is admirable.
You are so welcome
It truly is. ✌
Lora. Thank you so much. I appreciate the time you’ve taken to convert your posts to videos. You’re amazing.
And another thank you for calling in folks who use the word shaman, or just generally appropriate other cultures. I used to belong to the ADF, mainly just so I could connect with other like-minded-ish folks, but you, someone very far away, has done WAY more to call out racism, appropriation, colonialism, white supremacy, etc, than any single member of the ADF. You’re clearly human and experience those things in your daily life too, it’s just more that as ADF members on stolen Indigenous land with a continued history of brutality against Black folks, you’d think they’d at least call it out as regularly as you do. Aye. Anyways, this is all just a long way of again saying thank you for the many, many service you provide to *all* humans.
That last person has a lot of nerve. Your awesome Lora, keep doing what you're doing and stay true to yourself and your gods, and I'll listen. Much respect!!!!!
I have no idea, how I landed on this curious path on Irish Paganism. When you were discussing the dark history of Ireland during the 1800s, my heart sunk. I thought about Irish ancestors having to leave their homeland and immigrated. They lost both, spirit of the land, and spirit within themselves. Now, I don’t even want to continue with my journey because I don’t feel I have that right as N.American, regardless of my heritage. I felt your words! However, something deep inside me is saying continue, read, learn, visit Ireland, and when I’m there smell the dirt, touch a tree and talk to locals. So I feel as an outsider looking in, my path beings with respecting this as a native culture and it’s going to take a long time and a lot of work getting there. Thank you for your work, being a voice for the ancestors of Ireland calling out its people and the Irish Paganism community.
So glad to watch this and hear you articulate this. Thank you for your ongoing devotion to your practice and your generosity in sharing it. Listening and learning from afar. In awe.
You are truly a gift from the gods! I am soooo thankful for the information you put out and the spirit with which you present it.
Thank You!!! Your words so resonate with my sort of "eclectic paganism" and I feel strongly connected to my Celtic (especially Irish) roots and there is a flavor of Native American in my life as there is a wee bit of that in my heritage. So I love this channel. My husband found your channel and directed me here. THANK YOU, so much. I love having you in my world.
Just keep doing the great work that you share here with us on your channel. It doesn't matter what anybody else says about you, by truly knowing what is in your heart is all that should matter to you.
I don't take this shit personally Ronnie. I make videos like this to maybe educate some folks so those who don't have my tough hide might not have to suffer through the stuff that toughened my hide way back when ;-)
@@Ogham true I know how you feel sometimes because explain things over & over to people that really don't understand or can't grasp the educational value of there or any history. Like myself I'm 3/4 Irish but I also study Germanic Norse ( Saxon ) & Cherokee Indian because that is also a part of my heritage so I have to learn all 3 equally. I always tell people you never stop learning & just be true to yourself.
Lora, thank you for explaining this. I love the term "native spiritual practice", it feels... deep, like the roots run deep through it. You have been such a boon to my journey and I cannot thank you enough.
Thank you for all your work.
Have only found you in the last couple of days but am already enjoying your amazing content. Yours words here perfectly explain the very personal spirituality that I feel and it has taken me a very long time to realise that I don’t need to belong to belong! I am looking forward to exploring more of your wonderful work and thank you so much for your generosity in sharing 🤗
Thank you Lora. I am a Foreign Born Irish Citizen and am glad you clarify what being Irish means, truly. Hopefully those that need to hear you, will!
Thank you for the energy you give to educating the pagan world. I always turn to your channel when I'm confused by terminology or when I want to be respectful.
I have no clue what to call my own practice. But I'm not sure I need a name. I am sure that paganism is incredibly confusing. Thank you for doing your part to fix that. ❤
Thanks for this. I really enjoy your outlook and experience. There us so much that you said that was useful. Also the way you said what you have was comforting and so very,......very much relatable. A big thank you.
I appreciate that!
I visualize your verdant island oozing the spirtuality of the Gods and Goddesses. Touching the land, their energy and magic flowing. I feel a deep connection to my homeland. I understand the sacredness of this sharing between the land and the human.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, knowledge and experiences 🙏
Thank you for sharing this.
Thanks for listening
Thank you for this video Lora. I'm watching a couple of your videos per week and reading Morgan Daimler's Irish Paganism book. As a longtime Christo-Pagan, I love the Carmina Gadelica and all the Brighid lore, both Goddess and saint.
Pleasure to meet you!
Thank you sister for your wealth of knowledge!🍀
great video, Lora.
Inspiring and informative. Thank you
Thank you for this. I look forward to continue learning from you. I currently reside on Algonquin Anishinaabe land on Turtle Island (Ottawa, ON, Canada). I carry Irish, Scottish & Kanien'kehá:ka ancestry. I look forward to deepening my practice with you.
very funny you thanking others for correcting you. i get corrected by nice pagans for the bit of gaidhlig traditions i grew up with
thank you
I'm glad I found this channel. I have been wanting to learn about Irish traditions because part of my family has Irish roots, but they immigrated to the US a long time ago and have lost the cultural ties. I am searching spiritually and hoping to connect with that part of me, but I don't really know where to start. I'm looking forward to learning more about these traditions. If anyone has any guidance in that regard I would greatly appreciate it 💕
This whole channel is guidance. And my blog at www.LoraOBrien.ie
As always, a wonderful and informative video. I would just like to say that the abuser Lora mentioned as the founder of ADF has been disavowed by the ADF Mother Grove and that ADF’s awareness of what happened didn’t come about until after he had died. ADF works hard to make our leadership aware of issues around consent
I am a mixed blood American. I am Irish, Bohemian, German, Cherokee, English and African American. I have always been an outsider because I am an American Mutt but I am starting to realize that being a Mixed Blood Mystic (ha, my personal outcast term) is who I am and have no shame in not being a pure blood of any race. I am a puzzle of many cultures deep in 'magic and faith' . I was told I am of the blue clan of the Cherokee. My other grandfathers name was changed to Towey when his parents arrived to America. I guess I am just a patchwork of cultures... Thank you for sharing your knowledge and Wisdom in such an honest way.
Great video. Personally I don't have a label nor ' like them. I have my own believes. From another Irish prospective, your spot on.😁
I bet you would have good conversation with the farmer Pat noone lora . He also has a knowledge of the Aos si . Thanks for your work.
There's an interview with him here on my channel.
@@Ogham Thanks alot lora . Ive watched that interview before not knowing it was from you . I am going to visit pats farm when i visit eire next . Im already aware of the shadow figures and the invisible power of the aos si . I appriciate your input alot . There are only 3 ive learnt from . Thats you . pat noone and mike croghan who know more than many of us about the aos si.
i am struggling with the word Pagan .. as its an English word ?
as an Irishman i listen to all points of view about our heritage , so im open to accepting the word pagan only BC it is the closest word we have to describe , i am trying to find the oldest point of view and go from there , i used to call myself a Jedi on the census for 20 years . not from a future point of view , but from our past
i am totally drawn to Da Dagda , so how would you describe where im at , im a total novice with \ Great Hunger for our past ,
ty Lora you have given me the right questions to seek answers to .
Slan ,Trathona maith
Paganus is latin
Respects from Chile ;)
Yeah? Well there’s no respect from Ireland. Apparently you’re not good enough to practice Irish traditional Magick unless you’re Irish.
moreover i really like the decolonialism of your approach. however i can't afford to do classes
If we weren't born in Ireland, then we aren't "ethnically Irish".
Definition : Ethnicity, however, refers to cultural factors, including nationality, regional culture, ancestry, and language.
I understand the culture is watered down through immigration and blending into American culture. I think people should remember that some families that immigrated from Ireland DID keep the lore and some customs alive and passed them down through the lineage. I don't think it's reasonable to strip someone of their ethnicity because they aren't 'Irish enough'.
Now I can't imagine what would be said of the Ancient Order of Druids in America. I joined them back in '09, bought some books, did the self-dedication. It seemed legit. It felt like an earnest effort to make Druidry accessible to the US pagans. Was that all it would take to become a "Druid?" I still don't understand just why I kept feeling as if I needed to identify as one thing or another. Was it not enough to be a Witch with eclectic interests in shamanism and spellworking and Irish spirituality? Do these labels help one to figure out which books to read, or which teachers to seek out?
Not surprised that an American said that, there's a large amount of fluff and nonsense mixed with English and Scottish confusion here in the States. I almost had an aneurysm when someone tried to tell me King Arthur was Irish.
I can only speak for myself and my experiences but it seems to me that those of us who follow the morrigan kind of stand apart in a way. Its sort of like we are of the modern day system And yet we also stand outside at the same time
My form of druidry is Celtic heavy without the new age.
Same here.
I really love your videos but your mic makes it hard for me to watch for very long. Thank you for the videos! GRMA
Sorry to hear that
Exactly as you describe. Its hard to label oneself as druid because of all the nonsense going on in various forms. The same thing with wicca etc..so I have come to the point that if questioned i just refer to myself as an eclectic pagan. Not prescribing to any one particular path per say but doing and going with what feels right for me in the situation be it druidic, wiccan, heathenry, asatru, shamanic etc..I use magic form various systems and call upon deities form different pantheons as I believe that they are FAR FAR older than man and before man the gods, goddesses, etc..what ever label one gives them were not know as norse gods or celtic gods or wiccan goddess etc..I believe its was a human construct to categorize them in order to make sens maybe or to streamline the rituals making them more focused etc..I dont know, but I don think it out of place to call upon, work /commune with a so called celtic god /goddess as well as Norse or wiccan or native American god. That's why I say eclectic pagan instead of categorizing myself or my beliefs into one particular path or another
Ugh, the bs of being condescended to when it comes to YOUR own culture! Def a part of white supremacist culture here in the States, this feeling that you’re right and have innate authority to judge others *and* tell them they’re wrong. You’ve explained the [druid] inclusion so many times too, in your videos at least, and it’s frustrating that some folks can’t understand the nuances and limitations of labels/language. As an American who has Irish ancestors, I’ve really appreciated how you’ve called on us here, in particular, to pay mind to Irish folks such as yourselves when exploring our roots...and not pay folks here in the States making wild claims about their connection to their Irish ‘paganism.’ Go to the source. Thank you💞💞💞!
i was under the impression that wicca means gardnerian anglo paganism. and i found a lot of divisivness and bigotry from them. i don't think obod or adf are celtic or gaelic just cultural appropriation groups and also divisive and tend to be hostile to anyone with an actual link to galeic traditions. i have given up on these and that's why i am looking here.
i like that you acknowedge that catholicism has strandfs of magic. all the gaidhlig paganism i heard as a child in rural eastern nova scotia was totally embeded in catholocism.
call me presumptious i find your ideas as i have heard a few, are closer to the gaidhlig traditions of nova scotia than scottish pagans are
hello dearest. I'm in dire need of help, an evil God is tormenting me, please can you ask the morrigan for help? it's been three years and I'm searching for help. please help.
The thing is, you are super smart about Ireland. The average U.S. citizen is not very knowledgable about their own history so they presume everyone else to be as ignorant as they are. But to be honest I have come across contradictory information from different Irish "content creators"/writers that can lead a person to wonder what is really true. For instance one Irish content creator on TikTok indicated that Lugh is the consort of Danu, but then later on another website I read that Dagda is. But I tend to trust you because you show your work and give a lot of references. This is super important to do.
This is exactly my problem with the web and social media, someone reads one wiki article and suddenly they are an expert. How dare someone try to tell you what you are doing or put some label to it! Cultural appropriation aside, it's just fucking rude. People seem to have a need to label stuff because I guess it helps them feel like they understand it but someone's personal spiritual path is really noone else's business and if they are kind enough to share their experience and knowledge with you then you should respect that. It's one thing if someone has questions they ought to try to ask in a respectful way, sometimes people are ignorant and may offend without intending but then be a decent person apologize for your ignorance and don't let it happen again! Sorry for the rant, lol it just pisses me off that people feel they don't have to behave the same way online that they would in person. Most of these idiots would not say this too your face because they wouldn't want to be rude but if they're hiding behind a screen and a fake name then it's ok to be an ass. I have so much respect for you Lora and for what you do and am so grateful that you are willing to share and teach others! Thank you for all that you do and don't let the assholes bring you down!
You do realize Wicca is an old English word. This means it is hundreds of years. Also, it is properly pronounced Wicha.