The new "Middleweight" motorcycle category is unhinged
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
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Can't make sense of the ridiculous amount of "middleweight" bikes out there? Watch this video to finally understand!
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CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro
0:42 Kawasaki & the Early Days
1:52 Riders Then & Now
3:22 Beyond the Ninja 250
4:37 600s vs. 650s
6:04 Evolution of the Naked Bike
7:34 Yamaha & the Rise of the Twins
9:35 KTM's Many Contributions
11:09 Other Brands Coming In Hot
13:26 The New 650s - Комедії
The S1000RR might as well be a "middleweight" now lol. Win one over at yammienoo.co !
F900R fits right in this category, Yam.
The Busa is the best middleweight!
Link is bogus
My z900 being considered in the same class as a 400 cc bike is insane.
For me middleweight is from 500 - 750cc, 50-90 hp
@@Project-E250 read the second part buddy drz400 is disqualified in his statement
Yeah in a V twin or parallel cause a 750 inline is making 130+ and that’s before handing it over to a race team.
@@alejandrotobienne8220 why is everyone just ignoring the 50-90hp part
For me middle weight is 180-210kg
Come to think of it the 'weight' class should just be HP (Except piss-poor Harleys that make shit HP no matter what capacity)@@evanward9739
Motorcycle displacements should be categorized similarly to UFC weight class nomenclature.
Flyweight: < 249cc
Lightweight: 250cc - 499cc
Middle weight: 500cc - 799cc
Light heavyweight: 800cc - 989cc
Heavyweight: 990cc - 1199cc
Super Heavyweight: 1200cc +
Tbh that still wouldn't clarify much, as mentioned in the video a ZX4RR (which is a rare exception for a new bike) is competing with the likes of the R7 and GSX8R, you've got the Triumph Street Triple 765 competing with the likes of the Duke 890 and MT09, Aprilia RS660 vs Ducati Supersport 950. There's too many manufacturers making too many different bikes to make a clear classification based simply on displacement. And that's only the modern market, if you add bikes that are out of production you have an endless amount of variety and bikes that don't fit in a displacement based classification like the 2 strokes which even in a 249cc package can push out the same power as the 689cc Yamaha twin and the 399cc Kawasaki I4, now you've got bikes from 3 different classes pushing the same power. It's just impossible
Yes, but by different names.
We use
Ultralight/ welterweight
Featherweight
Lightweight
Middleweight
Heavyweight
Unlimited
Agreed but want to leave a caviat. A 499;is not middleweight. It's a full sized bike.already.
SO the current lightweight class bikes are generally below 60bhp and middle weight bikes are usually sub 120bhp with the full size bigger bikes over 120bhp.
Sumo-weight: Any 1000cc+ V-Twin Bagger or 1000 cc Touring Bike (Honda Gold Wings, BMW K1600s and BMW R1800)
The first Super Duke used to be 990 and made less power than the current 990 Duke
While the power difference is very small it is a good showcase of how far they've come. Even with nearly the same displacement the new bike is significantly more restricted than the original Superduke and yet it still makes more power
I think variety is a good thing. I'm glad middleweights aren't all precisely 650cc.
yeah the old fat 650s are lame
Right, most powerful bike I ever owned was a Ducati 999 at ~130HP. A superbike. Now the 600s are getting close to that, my back hurts, and I'm looking at Royal Enfield 350s.
Anyone else watching this from jail
That username and currently incarcerated? 😂
Hell na buddy
They ain’t catchin me
Work
If prison is a metaphor then yes
Started on a 95 Honda VFR750 and frankly I can’t imagine how I’m gonna replace it. It’s just so good. There’s nothing to upgrade to!
How refreshing it is to read someone express their gratitude and appreciation for what they have. Quality and functionality don't date. And just because something is newer doesn't make it better.
ever sat on a H2 SX?
@@SansSentimentsyeah bro that's cool. Have fun working on it.
I would say just get an 8th or 5th gen vfr then
was it hard starting on a heavier bike?
I bought a 2024 790 duke as a beginner , but I’m 6’3” 210… perfection
Did you forget Honda existed?
He doesn't like honda, apparently too good/boring for him.
The CBR600FA is the best middleweight i had the pleasure riding (at least for someone my size: 1.75m, 70kg). If i had a choice of any of these middleweight from the video, id still got for the honda without second though. So good i got a second one after my first got totaled. I have to give the new cbr650r a go to see how it compares, havent had a chance to take one for a spin yet/
I think a Honda bit him as a child and now he views them as existing but barely worth mentioning lest his ankle/elbow begin to ache at the memory.
@@seafooddiablo5686 He's got videos saying that a CB500x is the best beginner bike.
@Mrmoocows99 because hondas are awesome, i got a new SCL500 scrambler, and if u only watch his channel, you wouldn't know it existed. He just doesn't seem to like honda was my only point.
50hp is enough to cruise comfortably at 80mph, enough grunt to pull out of tight spots and will not try to kill the rider.
My 37hp bike can hit 115, I'm pretty sure the big displacement fans are just full of shit when they say small bikes aren't "fast enough "
I totally agree and I'll proceed to buy a R6
Had an NC 700x and it had 50hp. While it would do 80. You had to plan your passes on the highway well in advance. It actually sucked riding it over 70 cause you couldn't just pass a car
It's a great time to be a motorcyclist.. Lots of options.
many options but not enough money 🤕
All the subtle changes from sports bikes to more ergonomic has led us to modern naked bikes and retro bikes. My Triumph T120 has perfect ergonomics, so comfortable for long rides, produces about 85bhp and 110NM torque. Its an absolute amazing all rounder. Great for cruising, touring, commuting, 2-up riding, having fun (its not crazy but faster than most middlesweights), is physically small and not intimidating for new riders (my first bike). Plus the looks are to die for
Which is why imo the new so called Daytona should be based on that engine.
Man, I wish I had the money to learn how to ride like those KTM videos. I wouldn't dare drift my FZ-07.
Wayyy too torquey imagine the 09 with its twitchy throttle 😆
A lot of bikes you see drifting are fitted with oversize rear sprockets to allow the engine to easily break the tire's traction and they have plenty of money to burn, burning out the tires. if the tire suddenly regains grip all the power would loop the bike. Practice and experience help - these guys didn't start by learning how to do this on super high powered bikes.
@Jagshemasher exactly just like other stunters whose bikes are fitted and tuned to suit
A lot of guys learn on a 450f supermoto
@TheDieselguy65 what's a 450 like compared to a mt07?
I love my 22 SV650, fast when I "need" it, and fun for just cruising around.
best bike
@@Shketri94Agreed, there are other fun bikes, but best over all imho SV650.
@@nullshock3381It sounds like my Kawasaki KLR 650. It's a great all-around bike, but not great at anything in particular (offroad, streets or highways).
This!! Suzuki should’ve made a fully faired sv650 with the engine reworked a little bit
@@ryanoliver-vi9gmthey did... the sv650s ?
I actually did ride my 2023 390 duke 30min to and from work almost every day in the snow this year. It was a very warm winter in Michigan
This is very informative and entertaining at the same time! Thanks Yammie!
I think Europe in general does it well. Here in France i got my license less than 2 years ago so until i have 2 years of experience im legally required to have a bike with at most 47,5hp(if abs).
I just got a 13' ER6N reduced to 47,5 and ive gotta say you still get a lot of bike imo
For 99% of riders, 99% of the time, something like your bike is ideal. Ego drives a lot of riders to make terrible decisions when purchasing motorcycles. We have a real habit of purchasing status symbols rather than machines that are fit for our use case.
Euro ruins the entire motor industry with its emissions BS
@@Morgazmz it's not like us regular Europeans like it, though. As always it's governments that f* us up, just like the government in the US does lots of stuff that does not benefit the people.
Bro, I'm getting addicted to your videos. I got my first bike 3 weeks ago and all I do is watch motorcycle UA-cam videos and day-dream with all the mods I wanna get for my bike 😂
Welcome aboard
Don't go down that rabbit hole man...
Spend some time practicing and learning your bike before you worry about modding.
learn yo ride..first
Thank you all for the wise comments. I will be practicing more often now that I have my motorcycle endorsement.
For me my 2001 Bandit is a middle weight! Before it I had a HD Super glide 96 cubic inch 😎
bought a 2023 KTM 790 duke 3 weeks ago and absolutely love it as my first bike!
It is crazy. I started on z900 se and love it still. Looking at z h2 next. I will say to me less than 50 hp is nothing. Thats why I started big. It now has 24000 miles on it.
Same i just started on a z900 2022 model, its a pretty peppy bike yes its fast but sounds so good with an exhaust
Ah yes, less than 50 hp being nothing, yet my 37 hp bike can go 115...
Still better than a car but when you can do 160 plus you will see what I mean.
@Ramonatho 115 is nothing and keep in mind that's just what your speedometer says. It's closer to 109 mph either way, yes 37 hp I'd laughable
Great video. Very informative. Thinking of getting into bikes but feel I am too old for a beginner lol.
I’m based in the Netherlands, opted for a Honda CB650F as my starter bike. Like it alot!
I loved the SV650. I bought a brand new 1999 SV650 "S" version just days after completing my MSF course. Those were some good times.
Good video about the progress from the Ninja 250R, which I started with years ago, and am happy with the '21 Ninja 650 in 2024 as I never want to race on the roads and never take it to the track, so it does everything I want for a fun, scenic ride with plenty of power for my riding style.
u can set a line in the middleweight> 650- 700cc and 750-900+cc
What about my fav bike? Triumph Triple??
My progression went like this...I started riding a Ruckus about 6 years ago..killed the streets in it for a couple years, then got a grome clone to get used to shifting. After a couple thousand miles on it I traded for a Buell Blast 500. It was great! I finished the summer with it and crushed the next riding season and now upgraded to a Yamaha FJR 1300..it's fast!
Now that's a weird but cool ladder you climbed.
GG
Sv650 is dope, got 2017 for $4000 bout 3 years ago and i daily ride it to work and class every day, i love it
Started on my 86 gpz900r, took 30 yrs off and now on a 23 mt7.the r9 might be next!
Ill stick to my little 249cc cruiser for now til i hopefully get either the CFmoto 450ss or a 650 ADV bike within the next year or two. I feel like motorcycle "weight" class should be measured by horsepower rather than engine size, given examples of the zx-4rr being closer to lightweight in terms of displacement but a bit higher on power closer to a more "classic" middleweight.
the sv650 has two versions as far as I know.. there's a lams(learner approved motorcycle scheme) version in New Zealand which is like 46hp and then there's the high output version that makes the 75hp, same with the mt07 in nz, lams version and high output!
funny how you're talking about parallel twin 250 ninja, but showing a single cylinder 250 sl
A guy in a my riding group has a duke and stays in first tapping the throttle throughout the city. Im not fast enough to ride next to him but when I we start you can literally see the torque difference between the group
I did start my journey on a 05 Thunder Blue Ninja 500R. Decent bike overall.
I have a Yamaha R125 Monster edition since 2020 and I have never upgraded since. Might do at some point
A very cool option a buddy and i are gonna take is getting a CB650R and (because of the A2 license restrictions) get it down tuned (which is something Honda offers) to 35 kW and then unlock it back to its original 70kW once we get our A license. Basically 2 bikes for the price of 1.5 (lets face it 10k for a first bike is quite a lot)
you didn't mention about the triumph 660 cc triple-cylinder platform.
Nor the 650 inline 4 from honda.
Because they make no sense. This market is ruled by twins! Want to know why? It’s because the twins are the fastest growing segment in racing. Aprilia Suzuki Yamaha understood this and made bike to fit this category. I’m all for a triple I love my street triple r but if making a so called Daytona why not just take a street triple r and throw fairings on it? Now we have a overweight underpowered wanna be
Yammie bro, I ride a 2022 CBR650R, I am 6 foot 4 and yeah the bike hurts my body still, but at first after a year and a bit of riding it, I am sort of used to it. But I have never gotten the right advice for a similar bike that might suit my height better, or is there something I can do to my CBR to make it more comfortable for my height? It is the restricted version (Cause I am a noob, but not with riding experience just licence) I love the bike, but if I ride for more than an hour my knees start hurting and back etc.
You are too big for this bike. Like 20cm too high. I'm 1.70m (cca 5 foot 6) and it's literally PERFECT for me, no other bike came even close, and i tried a lot of them. There's enough space on the seat for me to move my ass back or forward and completely change my seating position from sporty to touring in 0.5sec. My friend is your size and he got a gsx650f after trying my cbr600fa (same bike as yours but they played around with the engine a bit on the 650 for emission standards iirc). He raised his bars a bit to make it even more comfortable but it was much better for him even unmoded. Maybe take a look at one of those, might be more comfortable? It's cca 20kg heavier and makes about the same 100hp iirc, was a bit too big for me.
Street triple ❤
What bikes would u recommend for begginers and what cc
and i went from a 400 and realized i wanted long distance sporty fun and bought an fjr 1300 after less than a year. I'm also only 5'3 150lbs. This bike launches easy and runs with the mt09
1988 HONDA NT650 HAWK GT (or Bros) was the first "standard" middle weight naked bike
I started on a Ninja 500. 2009 with carbs.
Any chance you’ll include Canada, in your giveaways, anytime soon?
Hi bro. Looks like the ninja 500 is out now. Have you tested it?? Really wanna know what you think of it compared to the cfmoto 450sr
What about the zx-25r ? 4 cylinders 250cc 😮 love to hear some thoughts on that
Ah yes, my daily dose of papa Yam. Right on time
Anyone have opinion on a 90s or early 2000s Yamaha FZS600 for a first bike?
Started on a Kawasaki z900 i love the bike do no regret it and was no need to buy a bike after 6months as you get bored. There is a bike for everyone these days 👍
your beginner bikes are classified as middleweight bikes in my country, India. Here, 110-200 cc is a beginner bike and currently the market is getting flooded with bikes in this range, as well as the 200-500cc range. We couldn't be any happier with the amount of options we get to choose from, but sadly not me. I take the bus
Well, in Mexico a beginner bike is around 125-250 cc, while 300-450 cc are the entry level of the high performance motorcycles. But it's cause here the >250 cc bike are chapest and even a cf moto 450 is expensive for the majority of population
Hopefully you'll be able to afford a bike one day.
Us moment (I do have a bike, but still takes a bus)
@@edabrego9217 does yamaha sell r15 over there?
@@rutukedarbhagwat1746 not too much, it cost around $5900 usd, for that price you can find a second hand ninja 400 or RC 390 in good conditions. In Mexico yamaha is the most expensive between japanese trademarks.
Early, but yup, right on this one. modern "middle weights" are nuts and don't deserve that label.
It's all marketing. They wouldn't sell anything if they listed it as heavyweight.
Like this, more options, more complications, more fun!!!!!!!!!
Started on a 390 Duke, rode for 2 seasons, then bought a 790 Duke, 990 is tempting, but 790 is plenty fun
I started riding on a 2014 FZ-09 and never crashed or dropped it. I had the bike from new until 2021, when i traded in the old girl for a 2021 Ducati Streetfighter V4S. You can absolutely start on a bigger displacement bike, providing you have a steady, controlled right wrist.
most new riders with absolutely zero experience will make all kinds of dumbass newb mistakes, I know I did, and it’s much better to be wonky and unsure on a smaller bike than on some 600cc+ rocket. a sub-300cc will be a lot more forgiving than something you can whiskey throttle into a tree in half a second flat.
also, and this is even more important, while you’re learning the controls and building the muscle memory on just how to ride a bike, how to behave in traffic, what to pay attention to, all that, you don’t want to divide your attention further by also having to struggle with the bike actively trying to kill you. it’s like learning the basics of horseback riding on some sassy race horse that can throw you off any second vs a tame and slow horse especially for newbs. it’s a no-brainer.
most people will have a bad time if they don’t start slow.
Ok, so its a half hour ride, and it goes down and up, and the snow part is optional, its mostly ice.
Ktm rc390, with winter tires (anlas wintergrip +)
I tried hard to learn something. not sure I did but, really enjoyed this, and I can't stop laughing
i started on and still have my 1995 EX500 :D
I think typically race categories are determined partly by cc but taking HP into account. Ie. SV650 is considered lightweight, R6 is middleweight (because a 600 SS has considerably more power than the 650) Don't be confused, R3 & Ninja 400 is featherweight. 1000s get towards heavy weight, and stuff like Ducati V2 & V4 are unlimited.
I just dont think we should consider street bikes as certain categories just based on cc. (I mean shit, the KLR650 has like 30hp at best, vs 80+ from the SV. Both are 650cc).
I think the manufacturers arent actually calling their 750+ middleweight, but they wouldnt sell anything if they called it heavyweight. It's just for sales.
Yammie forgetting about Triumphs beginner and middleweights 😲
so if i want to buy a bike. and the 400 is a 500. but 500 is close to 650. how far are those apart. and considering 200 to 650 sounds like a bikker bike. now i have heard about throttle control that its a lot harder on a liter bike. ive been on a cb500f and ona mt07. so how big is the step to a ninja 650 feeling wise. i know i can handle a bigger bike than a mt07... but how much bigger, is bigger. can someone explain things to look out for.. is it closer to 500 than a 1000 or the opposite is it nothing like a liter bike. can i compare a ninja 500 with a cb500? what do i need to know?
Do you think i could start on a sv650 being 19 and just getting my motorcycle endorsement, ive also never had prior experience on motorcycles
SV are great bikes, cheap and very easy to learn on. Get a gen 2 2003-2009
0:55 for a second there it trips me out to see indonesian languange on papa yam’s video😂
Triumph kind of started the lower and higher middleweight bikes trend with their early 90s bikes offered as similar 750 and 900 models, but it wasn't marketed as such
I loved my first bike zzr250 for the two weeks I had it 😢 dropped it knocked my self out doing 20kms an hour then got a vstar 650 after five or six years I got an m109r haven't looked back
Sat on one last week, too small for me unfortunately.
here in Italy all the bikes ridable with A2 license (35kw max) are considered entry level and not middleweight. also all the bikes that make less than 70 kw makes them legally detunable to 35kw in order to be ridden with A2, that made those middleweight bikes be called entry levels. so I pretty much think that this change in power and engine displacement si more of a license logic thing then anything.
I will never forget the profound affect the monster in the crow movie had on me. It was at that moment i knew I must own one.
I started on a cbr125r and got my license at the end of last season I’m 31 lol but anyone got any opinions on going from a 125 singe to a z800 inline 4 lol
Hard to decide on what I swap my 07 CBF600 for. Keep the same 'retro' styling with a modern update in the SV650 (with a more lively V-twin powerplant)? Or get a few more creature comforts with the GSX-8S? But since both of those have similar power to my current bike... what if I get a small jump up the pecking order and go for a Street Triple 765 - so more bang in a similar ergonomic package?
Decisions, decisions...
Or maybe I consider the new middleweight "adventure" and touring options, if I want something that can pull double-duty as a tourer (I mainly commute).
Surprised you’ve not mentioned the Triumph Trident or Daytona 660 which by most is considered a “Beginner” bike yet providing 660cc from a 3Cyl.
The Market atm for a nuub beginer like myself is allover the place. Thank for some clarifications but still have lods to learn!
Just call it:
beginner 250-350
lightweight -400-550 , middleweight 600 800
light heavyweight, 850-950 and heavyweight 1000+
Very interesting!
i dont even have a bike and can maneuver the market knowing what is beginner and what is middleweight so I think this is a non-issue
The stuff about people wanting to start with "more bike" is so real. I got a ninja 400 because it felt like the "premium" beginner bike and I'm probably not gonna be able to upgrade for a year or two since it's my only form of transportation and selling Bike 1 to buy Bike 2 isn't an option
Would you do a vid on comparing as many bikes, possible, in times for 0 - ___ mph? 60, 100, 1/4 mile, whichever you prefer.
My progression went like this. 14 learned how to ride on an r6 and took moto course once I turned 15. Bought a cbr600rr owned for 3 years. Now own a z h2😂
Well, my first middleweight was an '01 Ducati 750 Sport ^^
It was quite tame and reliable compared to my '96 Aprilia 125 RS :P
Here in Mexico all main brands still have starters from 250cc
And Chinese bikes that are cheaper have even smaller displacements I think 100 are the smallest you can legally drive around main roads. If you order domino’s in Mexico I guarantee the guy will arrive in a white Honda cargo 125/150
I got an xsr900 as a first bike, and after a month, it already feels slow.
Umm guys is a Kawasaki Z650 a decent beginner bike? I have ridden a 150cc bike for 2 months in india. That's all the experience I have. But I feel like I have the basics down. Or should I just go with the safe choice a ninja 400. I am trying to find a beginner bike that I can hold on to until I can afford a bike on my own. I in first year for Uni right now.
Go with the 400
First bike was a 2023 xsr900. And now I’m dead
I had a sv, spent all my money making it a gsxr 😂
Your content is always relevant and timely.
you a bot
So the r1s gsxr-1000 and the zx-10 are not being made anymore? Doesnt make much sense because the typical progression i think of is start on a r6 gsxr-600 zx-6 something like that and then go to a 1k so the fact that they arent being made anymore is very odd
Everything wants to be a middleweight since the label sells well. Like when car manufs tried to call 4-door cars coupes at one point.
I’m starting with with a mt 09 (35 kw)
Dude my 99 is still running strong as all hell
and i'm over here happy with my 47 HP Royal Enfield Interceptor 650...
This videos title is accurate. It's an absolutely chaotic video
My "middleweight" is a Duke 890 R with about 120 bhp 🙂
Honda hawk gt was really the first modern naked bike.
"uphill both ways"
The first time I understood that the ZX6R was faster than the Ninja 650, besides having less displacement... That day I realized I knew shit and that I wasn't really understanding anything 😂
I always thought that old Honda hawk was a great looking bike.
I recently went around looking for whatever they had last year's models on sale for, asked for an sv650. Was told we're phasing them out but here's an 800. He says it had a very linear throttle feel or some excuse to make it more approachable. All I thought is I'm just a more linear idiot. And don't need that much bike to get to work. I live around a sub base, a casino and a college traffic is as terrible as the roads are.
For got to touch base one the 23 Ducati monster middle class