Oh man.. even after so long watching this, it still has everyone enthralled like it's the first time. Zach McGowan freaking slayed and delivered exceptional power in every line. Someone please give Eric, all the lads in fact, a hug. Hold on, lads. Vanes poppa is coming. 😁❤
Raul Zaha When has 1.83 (6 feet) become not tall enough? Seriously, that's BS and you know it. It's not like Geralt of Rivia is 7 feet. The way he was written in the book (and assuming that on average people were shorter because of the time period) than he'd at best be 1 or 2 inches taller than Zach here. So again that's bullshit and you know it (or you would if you did your research, which I'm guessing you didn't).
I know how to type Zach McGowan into Google. The problem is, he appears so much shorter on screen. His intimidation factor comes from him appearing to be this concentrated mass of ferocity. I don't remember height descriptions of Geralt from the books (and there's no reason to assume people were shorter "because of the time period" since we're talking about a fantasy world) but in the games Geralt always seemed to me to be taller than most people, even if it was by just an inch. Although I guess compared to Tom Hopper everyone looks short.
"Get on with it motherfucker." This episode was heartbreaking and fueled a lot of hate for Eleanor. She and Max were my least favourite main cast members and after this episode Eleanor was no1 on my shit list. The absolute silence was such a great direction. The impact of his death is so heavy the viewers at home are just as silent as the crowd in shock that it's happening. It isn't glorified the way it would be in other shows, it's just a genuinely shocking and emotional moment that seems to last forever before the men show him mercy.
@Stannis Baratheon Thank You! Vane is my favorite character, but it boggles my mind how dense viewers can be sometimes. She's doing this because she's just some evil mustache twirling villain? I wish people would just think a little bit.
Always a tough episode to re-watch. My feelings for Eleanor are colored by having watched the entire series. This is one of those shows that may give you what you think you wanted, but in such a way that you can't in the end enjoy it. They might like reacting to Rome.
Tbh I can't fault Eleanor for wanting to hang Vane. I mean, he's one of my favorite characters and I would not have wanted this outcome, but he killed her father. I just can't hate her for this choice.
Yeah because she screwed him over, literally and figuratively. He warned her not to do it or there will be consequences but she's like nope I am an entitled self righteous brat and can do whatever i want. What did she fucking expect?
Yeah, their opinions on the female characters aren't great, been hoping they'd improve given the moral ambiguity of all the characters but not yet. Fingers crossed for Season 4 reactions being better!
@Jersey Boy She smuggled Ashe’s daughter out despite knowing, and Vane telling her, that he will likely be killed by his men for losing the prize. She was willing to cause him to be killed by doing something cowardly in the dead of night and then she has the nerve of getting angry when he does something similar to her?
@@Nodiril she did it for a cause that made sense (or that she believed in, the one with flint) whatever vane's plan was wasn't viable cos he eventually came to flint's side anyways after flint was fucked and billy made vane saw reason. I wonder what would've happened had he been on their side from the beginning in terms of charlestown
@@Nice-sz4ee I’m not criticizing her cause. Everybody has their own personal motives in this series and that’s fine. The thing I’m criticizing is her hypocrisy. She fucks people over but when those same people fuck her over she pretends that they are the only ones in the wrong and not her. And while it’s true that Vane’s plan wasn’t viable, neither was Eleanor and Flint’s plan. The plan to make peace with England went south and Charles had to step in to save Flint.
The historic Charles Vane was hot headed, merciless and disliked, died March 29th, 1721 hanged for piracy in port royal. Likely no on cried over his death and he had a falling out with Edward Thatch (Blackbeard) back on Ocracoke after a disagreement on combining crews to take back Island of new providence, Nassau from British colonialists under Woods Rogers authority.
Black beard has a variety of different but similar surnames such as Teach, Thatche, Tatch, Thash, Titch, Thack, Tak and so on. Edward Teach is his most commonly given name however most historians agree that it is most likely Edward Thatch.
I am well aware of Blackbeard having similar surnames. I grew on the coast of North Carolina and still live here. But as far as this show is concerned, which is what my original comment was in reference to, it's Teach.
I love watching these characters talking about “freedom” and “liberty”, because we are willing to buy it - they are such badasses and have wonderful arcs - but in reality... is so much hypocrisy LOL (so many innocents died because of their entitlement) I still think BS did a much better job than other series of walking through the grey moral areas of the characters - they are all so human. Can’t believe we are almost at the end of this amazing series :/
Very true. Vane, even in BS S1 killed complete innocents. Glorifying pirates is great for entertainment, but if people look at history with the same lenses, it's a problem.
I believe context is always important when analyzing historical events. When looking at morality through a 2021 lens it's clear they're hypocrites and monsters. However, in the era being covered in the show, there were a lot of progressive ideas the pirates embodied which would be the type of ideology that led to major events like the American Revolution and the French Revolution to occur. The pirates embodied the mindset a lot of the "common people" were having in the 1700's against authority.
I just started watching this show finally. I can’t believe it took me so long because it is the best show I’ve seen in years. I love Vane but I also still love Eleanor. John Silver is my favorite character though. Great tv series!!!!!! 🏴☠️ ☠️
I think when we watch tv, we automatically look for our 'good guys' and for our 'bad guys', But in this show, the whole point is, there are no 'good guys'. Not the men. Not the woman, and not the English. So the next thing we do is look for who's 'less' the bad guy. And then we justify it with our own reasoning. Whatever or whoever that may be. It's a fun show, but seriously, there are NO good guys. Just less bad
I love Eleanor, I see her as a mirror image of Flint, both are ruthless, smart, conflicted, and for the purpose both have set for themselves they would betray anyone and everyone, because they cannot betray themselves and their goals. Had she been born a man she would have made an amazing pirate captain imo.
I came here to say this same shit.... Eleanor makes power moves and decisions that aren't unlike any of the moves the male characters makes. She doesnt get "shit handed to her" as eric implies....she knows how to play the game, she outsmarts many of the characters. Seriously, her goals are not any different than what Flint's have been at various points. They ALL have had ulterior motives. She clearly would have made one hell of a pirate captain. It's really disappointing that their coverage/reactions through each season really cuts outs or doesnt talk about the female characters who are all important pieces here, and are very interesting characters, with a lot of depth. Max's character arc is one of the best from what happened to her s1. Like guys, cmon, do better. *sigh*
I actually dislike Eleanor and love Flint, though I think you are right. It's a food for thought for me, because I am not entirely sure whether I actually have a ground to stand on here. I like Maddi and Miranda and love Max and Anne though.
Eleanor has always been arrogant self serving . Power for powers sake. Where as Flint has always been about getting power to hurt the the people who killed his and others loved ones. Most don't hate her because she's a woman. Most hate her because she didn't care who she hurt to get what she wants, as long as she got it. Because she uses others to kill, and wields a softer voice then the men, makes her more unlikable.... and dangerous
@@aimeeck Max started this entire fall. Her greed. Holding Eleanor responsible for what Max did, and was going to do, by leaving with Silver. Then getting angry at Eleanor for not leaving with her, a few hours before she was leaving Eleanor. Max AND Eleanor are without a doubt the two most responsible and dangerous characters on the show.
Vane’s death was executed so well (I’m sorry) but screw this show for not sticking to history when we could’ve had more Vane haha! Nah tbh it was truthfully the right moment for the character to go, I honestly feared for him when he was shot last episode because I wondered what more could he do for the narrative and it felt like he’d already completed his character arc and there just wasn’t much left to do. They’d already changed history with Ned Lowe too which rises the stakes and makes everything unpredictable for people that know their history in this fictional world that’s the prelude to Treasure Island (which btw played loose with the real world timeline as well considering Israel Hands from the book was based off on Blackbeard’s real life First mate of the same name). I love the show having the balls to do that to a main character when still so many franchises struggle to let go at the right time to this day despite how much stronger and more emotional it can make the story. The silent moments and him walking to face his death while staring down those who brought about it was perfection. But yeah for those that want to know, Jack and Blackbeard irl both died well before Vane did who was hanged in 1721 at Port Royal not Nassau. He was captured after his crew ditched him and others on an island and made Jack their own captain instead (very similar to what was depicted in Assassin’s Creed Black Flag). I started also to worry a bit more based on the friendship between Van and Jack in this show and how he sacrificed his freedom in exchange for Jack and thought there’s no way this Jack would ever accept or lead a mutiny against Vane which also had me guessing I couldn’t hold out hope for Vane to be bailed out at the last second so it could stick to history unfortunately
I've been watching along the show and these reactions and I'm disappointed, but not surprised by the discussion here. I'll preface by saying Vane is my favorite character. But I make peace with the fact he's a bad man or at least has done many bad things. That's why the executioner mentions all the lives he's taken and affected over time. But more importantly in relation to Eleanor. The man killed her father simply over stealing a girl he planned to make money off of. That's an extreme retribution, but befitting a guy who's lived the life he has. She did the right thing at that time by saving her. So her going after Vane to see him hung is a problem? This isn't Star Wars or Disney or Marvel where there are paint by numbers good guys and bad guys. They're characters with their own motivations and ambitions. What did you want her to do? Tell Vane it's all good for killing her father because the audience likes him? You should want them to be realistic to the storyline. He had to go, and I say that as a fan of the character. I feel bad for the writers because they try to write 3-dimensional characters and situations, but you have people who can't see past the traditional storytelling of who's the hero and who's the villain because their brains can't compute beyond putting characters in boxes instead of taking things for what they are.
There is a familiar waft of casual sexism in their hypocrisy in regards to Eleanor's actions versus other male characters. Its extremely disappointing.
Elanoir by this point has already betrayed Vane (twice) and Max not to mention Rogers by pulling this stunt as he was unconscious in bed despite being warned not to (twice) by Max. If we're taking 3D characters then skipping trial and process during a period of transition from outlaw island to civil governance to disregard it all and dunk on of the biggest influences on the island in front of then was beyond justifiably stupid. They ain't hating on her because she's a woman, they're hating on her because she's a piece of shit who literally never has taken wise council (not from Max, nor Vane, nor Hornigold, nor Scott) because she puts herself above all others and this was just latest in face palm worthy decisions that have huge ramifications. Looking back at the show in hindsight has there been anyone she's not crossed? But sure let's water it down to simply good vs bad and not a sentiment festered from 29 episodes of actions on her part. Max often gets undue heat in my opinion from viewers of the show but Elanoir? Nah, every time I rewatch the show I come to the same conclusions. They were right too - she was so self righteous in that cell when in all honesty her reconciliation with her father lasted what - One scene? Maybe two? She's just as big a coward or animal as any of the pirates on that beach never mind Vane.
@@aimeeck thank youuu, i'm 99% sure a lot of the comments against Eleanor (not just from the lads, but in the comment section), would NOT have happened had she been a guy lol. of course, had she been a man her storyline would be completely different - a lot of it hinges on her being a woman, in 1715, trying to run a business through pirates.
I feel like the hate for Eleanor is like, a degree too intense. She’s antagonistic/a villain to the protagonists but I mean I feel like she’s no less guilty/manipulative/maneuvering than flint is, especially in season 1. Just my opinion
Not to mention Vane was no angel, he did set up rape gangs on Max in S1, gotta love how fast ppl were willing to ignore such horrendous acts, if Eleanor did that shit you would never heard the end of it from the fandom.
Just my opinion, but I think when we watch tv, we look for our 'good guys/girls' and for our 'bad guys/girls', But in this show, the whole point is, there is none. Not the men. Not the woman, and not the English. So the next thing we do is look for who's 'less' the bad guy. And then we justify it with our own reasoning. Whatever that may be. It's a fun show, but seriously, there are NO good guys. Just less bad
The difference is likability.... Even though you hate those other character's actions, they are enjoyable. Eleanor's character is not likable by most. That makes whatever evil she does all that more aggravating.
@@TheRealIronMan No he didn’t… He was about to release her off the island when his men intervened and started raping her because they were pissed. Vane could do nothing about it because he already had barely any control over them thanks to losing all their savings.
The reason you don't hear about Scott, Vane, Blackbeard or very little of Captain Flint (minor character in the book) is that Black Sails is a prequel. It takes place 20 years before Treasure Island.
So Rogers shoots Vane and gets him imprisoned and likely would have hung him if he wasn't sick and he's so cool, but Eleanor follows through for the same way with legit reasoning, but she's horrible? Really? Ok
obviously she's just a 'fucking bitch'. lets just ignore the part where vane chose to die as well by calling billy off. but yeah, totally all eleanor's fault.
interesting, when other (male) characters get revenge and take back their power they're "badass" but if eleanor does it she's a "fucking bitch" who's "always fucking shit up"... right. way to veil your bias. spoiler alert, every single character in this show does bad things and is working at odds with one another. that's why they're able to have layered conflicts over multiple seasons and that's what makes it so fascinating. pretending eleanor is uniquely evil is seriously ignorant.
It’s not just this she a flip flopping character switches sides incredibly easily which already made her unlikable killing are far more likeable character is obviously gonna make them mad yes they’re bias but so what? Some characters are more likeable than others depending on what you prefer in a character
Eleanor is clearly smarter than anyone on the show, despite her struggling to keep her darkest desires from clouding her judgment. If that character was a man no one would be calling him a "bitch" but instead praising his genius.
That's some real mental gymnastics to pretend Eleonor has no right to be pissed Vane brutally murdered her father in order to punish her because ... a)it wasn't her who got murdered? b)he was a bad father, which somehow further proves what a lucky bitch she is.
i love that the whole discussion of the episode is just them hating on eleanor lol! I actually never really hated eleanor, i just disliked her in some situations, but i definitely get why they and most fans do hate her XD
I think the Eleanor hate comes down to: None of the characters are good people, but it's much easier for viewers to want to root for the badass characters; in this show, it's the pirates (who we've followed for the whole show and know the most about). Vane's death was inevitable and warranted, and people shouldn't be so mad at Eleanor for being the one to (finally) do it.
Part of this show was always toying between the mythology (the books), the history (Vane, and others did exist). That is why I loved it so much... From the idea that history was written by the victors, they took certain characters whose stories were probably vilified (to serve the Kingdom)... So this show lives in the gray area of the possible. But Vane still needed to hang ;(
YT channel "A Pirate's Life" made a wonderful tribute MV for Capt. Charles Vane: Pat Razket - Hangman's Noose (Pirate Music) [Black Sails Fan Video] ❤🩹🧡💛💚💙💜
What bothered me about Vane's hanging is that, historically, it was too early. He was hung a year after Jack Rackham. That and I had grown to love Zach McGowan's portrayal of Charles Vane.
"And whatever i have to say to god, i'll tell him myself, or not at all."
Oh man.. even after so long watching this, it still has everyone enthralled like it's the first time. Zach McGowan freaking slayed and delivered exceptional power in every line. Someone please give Eric, all the lads in fact, a hug. Hold on, lads. Vanes poppa is coming. 😁❤
It hurt me when Scott died, I barely held it together when Vane hanged, but I lost it when they killed the goat
Its always the goats that gets it :/
can no longer fuck the dairy goat
Vane fucking walked into his death. Fearless, that's what makes him such a badass
R.I.P Charles Vane 1x1-3x9 :(
fun fact, the boat stunt early on is what some people refer to as "that time they parallel parked the Walrus"
Congratulations, you are now men of winter, wait, sorry, wrong 3x9
@@revelstatus2346 true Caribbean lads
Three words: Vane = Gerarlt of Rivia (in the Netflix show, he has the face and he has the voice and he has the swagger).
Ebosan87 Two words even better.
Mads Mikkelsen
CulinVlau Mads is 52.
Geralt is 80-100. He'll be fine
He has the face and he has the voice and he has the swagger, but he doesn't really have the height
Raul Zaha When has 1.83 (6 feet) become not tall enough? Seriously, that's BS and you know it. It's not like Geralt of Rivia is 7 feet. The way he was written in the book (and assuming that on average people were shorter because of the time period) than he'd at best be 1 or 2 inches taller than Zach here. So again that's bullshit and you know it (or you would if you did your research, which I'm guessing you didn't).
I know how to type Zach McGowan into Google. The problem is, he appears so much shorter on screen. His intimidation factor comes from him appearing to be this concentrated mass of ferocity. I don't remember height descriptions of Geralt from the books (and there's no reason to assume people were shorter "because of the time period" since we're talking about a fantasy world) but in the games Geralt always seemed to me to be taller than most people, even if it was by just an inch.
Although I guess compared to Tom Hopper everyone looks short.
hang on Blind Wave, because from this episode on, it’s a real rollercoaster
"Get on with it motherfucker." This episode was heartbreaking and fueled a lot of hate for Eleanor. She and Max were my least favourite main cast members and after this episode Eleanor was no1 on my shit list. The absolute silence was such a great direction. The impact of his death is so heavy the viewers at home are just as silent as the crowd in shock that it's happening. It isn't glorified the way it would be in other shows, it's just a genuinely shocking and emotional moment that seems to last forever before the men show him mercy.
@Stannis Baratheon Thank You! Vane is my favorite character, but it boggles my mind how dense viewers can be sometimes. She's doing this because she's just some evil mustache twirling villain? I wish people would just think a little bit.
Always a tough episode to re-watch. My feelings for Eleanor are colored by having watched the entire series. This is one of those shows that may give you what you think you wanted, but in such a way that you can't in the end enjoy it. They might like reacting to Rome.
The hate to Elenor begins
Jack Sparrow i had hope for her, but it died in this episode
Never hated her to be honest.
@@JarinCOD Always hated her tbh.
Oh yeah, I forgot Flint drifted the Walrus ashore this episode lol.
Also, that last shot of Blackbeard...he's about to go on the fucking warpath!
Tbh I can't fault Eleanor for wanting to hang Vane. I mean, he's one of my favorite characters and I would not have wanted this outcome, but he killed her father. I just can't hate her for this choice.
Yeah because she screwed him over, literally and figuratively. He warned her not to do it or there will be consequences but she's like nope I am an entitled self righteous brat and can do whatever i want. What did she fucking expect?
Yeah, their opinions on the female characters aren't great, been hoping they'd improve given the moral ambiguity of all the characters but not yet. Fingers crossed for Season 4 reactions being better!
@Jersey Boy She smuggled Ashe’s daughter out despite knowing, and Vane telling her, that he will likely be killed by his men for losing the prize. She was willing to cause him to be killed by doing something cowardly in the dead of night and then she has the nerve of getting angry when he does something similar to her?
@@Nodiril she did it for a cause that made sense (or that she believed in, the one with flint) whatever vane's plan was wasn't viable cos he eventually came to flint's side anyways after flint was fucked and billy made vane saw reason. I wonder what would've happened had he been on their side from the beginning in terms of charlestown
@@Nice-sz4ee I’m not criticizing her cause. Everybody has their own personal motives in this series and that’s fine. The thing I’m criticizing is her hypocrisy. She fucks people over but when those same people fuck her over she pretends that they are the only ones in the wrong and not her.
And while it’s true that Vane’s plan wasn’t viable, neither was Eleanor and Flint’s plan. The plan to make peace with England went south and Charles had to step in to save Flint.
The historic Charles Vane was hot headed, merciless and disliked, died March 29th, 1721 hanged for piracy in port royal. Likely no on cried over his death and he had a falling out with Edward Thatch (Blackbeard) back on Ocracoke after a disagreement on combining crews to take back Island of new providence, Nassau from British colonialists under Woods Rogers authority.
Edward *TEACH*
Black beard has a variety of different but similar surnames such as Teach, Thatche, Tatch, Thash, Titch, Thack, Tak and so on. Edward Teach is his most commonly given name however most historians agree that it is most likely Edward Thatch.
I follow the historian's thesis.
I am well aware of Blackbeard having similar surnames. I grew on the coast of North Carolina and still live here. But as far as this show is concerned, which is what my original comment was in reference to, it's Teach.
Are you joking or just stupid?
RIP Vane, a true badass.
I love watching these characters talking about “freedom” and “liberty”, because we are willing to buy it - they are such badasses and have wonderful arcs - but in reality... is so much hypocrisy LOL (so many innocents died because of their entitlement)
I still think BS did a much better job than other series of walking through the grey moral areas of the characters - they are all so human.
Can’t believe we are almost at the end of this amazing series :/
Very true. Vane, even in BS S1 killed complete innocents. Glorifying pirates is great for entertainment, but if people look at history with the same lenses, it's a problem.
@@hp5203 they did made the first republic of the new world. But yeah, reality is FAR different, Jack and Vane werent even friends
I believe context is always important when analyzing historical events. When looking at morality through a 2021 lens it's clear they're hypocrites and monsters. However, in the era being covered in the show, there were a lot of progressive ideas the pirates embodied which would be the type of ideology that led to major events like the American Revolution and the French Revolution to occur. The pirates embodied the mindset a lot of the "common people" were having in the 1700's against authority.
I just started watching this show finally. I can’t believe it took me so long because it is the best show I’ve seen in years. I love Vane but I also still love Eleanor. John Silver is my favorite character though. Great tv series!!!!!! 🏴☠️ ☠️
Best intro of any UA-cam reactors I've ever seen. Gets better every time
Flint and co havent yet learnt about Charles. :)
Shane’s giggle at 2:37 made me giggle too
I wanna hear what DeGroot has to say about her XD I love that so much.
I think when we watch tv, we automatically look for our 'good guys' and for our 'bad guys', But in this show, the whole point is, there are no 'good guys'. Not the men. Not the woman, and not the English. So the next thing we do is look for who's 'less' the bad guy. And then we justify it with our own reasoning. Whatever or whoever that may be. It's a fun show, but seriously, there are NO good guys. Just less bad
I love Eleanor, I see her as a mirror image of Flint, both are ruthless, smart, conflicted, and for the purpose both have set for themselves they would betray anyone and everyone, because they cannot betray themselves and their goals.
Had she been born a man she would have made an amazing pirate captain imo.
Yeah and these guys hate her because shes a woman. Which is why I basically hate all of these guys. Damn hypocrites.
I came here to say this same shit.... Eleanor makes power moves and decisions that aren't unlike any of the moves the male characters makes. She doesnt get "shit handed to her" as eric implies....she knows how to play the game, she outsmarts many of the characters. Seriously, her goals are not any different than what Flint's have been at various points. They ALL have had ulterior motives. She clearly would have made one hell of a pirate captain.
It's really disappointing that their coverage/reactions through each season really cuts outs or doesnt talk about the female characters who are all important pieces here, and are very interesting characters, with a lot of depth. Max's character arc is one of the best from what happened to her s1. Like guys, cmon, do better. *sigh*
I actually dislike Eleanor and love Flint, though I think you are right. It's a food for thought for me, because I am not entirely sure whether I actually have a ground to stand on here.
I like Maddi and Miranda and love Max and Anne though.
Eleanor has always been arrogant self serving . Power for powers sake. Where as Flint has always been about getting power to hurt the the people who killed his and others loved ones. Most don't hate her because she's a woman. Most hate her because she didn't care who she hurt to get what she wants, as long as she got it. Because she uses others to kill, and wields a softer voice then the men, makes her more unlikable.... and dangerous
@@aimeeck Max started this entire fall. Her greed. Holding Eleanor responsible for what Max did, and was going to do, by leaving with Silver. Then getting angry at Eleanor for not leaving with her, a few hours before she was leaving Eleanor. Max AND Eleanor are without a doubt the two most responsible and dangerous characters on the show.
Vane died to go be on The 100.
Vane’s death was executed so well (I’m sorry) but screw this show for not sticking to history when we could’ve had more Vane haha! Nah tbh it was truthfully the right moment for the character to go, I honestly feared for him when he was shot last episode because I wondered what more could he do for the narrative and it felt like he’d already completed his character arc and there just wasn’t much left to do. They’d already changed history with Ned Lowe too which rises the stakes and makes everything unpredictable for people that know their history in this fictional world that’s the prelude to Treasure Island (which btw played loose with the real world timeline as well considering Israel Hands from the book was based off on Blackbeard’s real life First mate of the same name). I love the show having the balls to do that to a main character when still so many franchises struggle to let go at the right time to this day despite how much stronger and more emotional it can make the story. The silent moments and him walking to face his death while staring down those who brought about it was perfection.
But yeah for those that want to know, Jack and Blackbeard irl both died well before Vane did who was hanged in 1721 at Port Royal not Nassau. He was captured after his crew ditched him and others on an island and made Jack their own captain instead (very similar to what was depicted in Assassin’s Creed Black Flag). I started also to worry a bit more based on the friendship between Van and Jack in this show and how he sacrificed his freedom in exchange for Jack and thought there’s no way this Jack would ever accept or lead a mutiny against Vane which also had me guessing I couldn’t hold out hope for Vane to be bailed out at the last second so it could stick to history unfortunately
"Get on with it motherfucker", so badass
you guys wanna see more of the man played vane... watch 'The 100'!!
The guy at 11:08 was the one who fought another guy to join Teach’s Crew…
I've been watching along the show and these reactions and I'm disappointed, but not surprised by the discussion here. I'll preface by saying Vane is my favorite character. But I make peace with the fact he's a bad man or at least has done many bad things. That's why the executioner mentions all the lives he's taken and affected over time. But more importantly in relation to Eleanor. The man killed her father simply over stealing a girl he planned to make money off of. That's an extreme retribution, but befitting a guy who's lived the life he has. She did the right thing at that time by saving her. So her going after Vane to see him hung is a problem? This isn't Star Wars or Disney or Marvel where there are paint by numbers good guys and bad guys. They're characters with their own motivations and ambitions. What did you want her to do? Tell Vane it's all good for killing her father because the audience likes him? You should want them to be realistic to the storyline. He had to go, and I say that as a fan of the character. I feel bad for the writers because they try to write 3-dimensional characters and situations, but you have people who can't see past the traditional storytelling of who's the hero and who's the villain because their brains can't compute beyond putting characters in boxes instead of taking things for what they are.
There is a familiar waft of casual sexism in their hypocrisy in regards to Eleanor's actions versus other male characters. Its extremely disappointing.
Elanoir by this point has already betrayed Vane (twice) and Max not to mention Rogers by pulling this stunt as he was unconscious in bed despite being warned not to (twice) by Max. If we're taking 3D characters then skipping trial and process during a period of transition from outlaw island to civil governance to disregard it all and dunk on of the biggest influences on the island in front of then was beyond justifiably stupid. They ain't hating on her because she's a woman, they're hating on her because she's a piece of shit who literally never has taken wise council (not from Max, nor Vane, nor Hornigold, nor Scott) because she puts herself above all others and this was just latest in face palm worthy decisions that have huge ramifications. Looking back at the show in hindsight has there been anyone she's not crossed? But sure let's water it down to simply good vs bad and not a sentiment festered from 29 episodes of actions on her part.
Max often gets undue heat in my opinion from viewers of the show but Elanoir? Nah, every time I rewatch the show I come to the same conclusions. They were right too - she was so self righteous in that cell when in all honesty her reconciliation with her father lasted what - One scene? Maybe two? She's just as big a coward or animal as any of the pirates on that beach never mind Vane.
@@aimeeck thank youuu, i'm 99% sure a lot of the comments against Eleanor (not just from the lads, but in the comment section), would NOT have happened had she been a guy lol. of course, had she been a man her storyline would be completely different - a lot of it hinges on her being a woman, in 1715, trying to run a business through pirates.
I feel like the hate for Eleanor is like, a degree too intense. She’s antagonistic/a villain to the protagonists but I mean I feel like she’s no less guilty/manipulative/maneuvering than flint is, especially in season 1. Just my opinion
Not to mention Vane was no angel, he did set up rape gangs on Max in S1, gotta love how fast ppl were willing to ignore such horrendous acts, if Eleanor did that shit you would never heard the end of it from the fandom.
Just my opinion, but I think when we watch tv, we look for our 'good guys/girls' and for our 'bad guys/girls', But in this show, the whole point is, there is none. Not the men. Not the woman, and not the English. So the next thing we do is look for who's 'less' the bad guy. And then we justify it with our own reasoning. Whatever that may be. It's a fun show, but seriously, there are NO good guys. Just less bad
The difference is likability.... Even though you hate those other character's actions, they are enjoyable. Eleanor's character is not likable by most.
That makes whatever evil she does all that more aggravating.
@@TheRealIronMan No he didn’t… He was about to release her off the island when his men intervened and started raping her because they were pissed. Vane could do nothing about it because he already had barely any control over them thanks to losing all their savings.
Some part of me…lives for that intro alone.
The reason you don't hear about Scott, Vane, Blackbeard or very little of Captain Flint (minor character in the book) is that Black Sails is a prequel. It takes place 20 years before Treasure Island.
R.I.P
Shane's giggle lmao
So Rogers shoots Vane and gets him imprisoned and likely would have hung him if he wasn't sick and he's so cool, but Eleanor follows through for the same way with legit reasoning, but she's horrible? Really? Ok
obviously she's just a 'fucking bitch'. lets just ignore the part where vane chose to die as well by calling billy off. but yeah, totally all eleanor's fault.
Black Sails is an amazing show and its better than 10 times than vikings shit
This Show Storyline is so powerful
interesting, when other (male) characters get revenge and take back their power they're "badass" but if eleanor does it she's a "fucking bitch" who's "always fucking shit up"... right. way to veil your bias.
spoiler alert, every single character in this show does bad things and is working at odds with one another. that's why they're able to have layered conflicts over multiple seasons and that's what makes it so fascinating. pretending eleanor is uniquely evil is seriously ignorant.
It’s not just this she a flip flopping character switches sides incredibly easily which already made her unlikable killing are far more likeable character is obviously gonna make them mad yes they’re bias but so what? Some characters are more likeable than others depending on what you prefer in a character
Eleanor is clearly smarter than anyone on the show, despite her struggling to keep her darkest desires from clouding her judgment. If that character was a man no one would be calling him a "bitch" but instead praising his genius.
literally. it's so irritating to watch.
amen
They would still hate her if she was male cause that’s how much they so obviously love vane
@@davidajayi6516They loved Flint when he was at odds w Vane.
What took you so long? I've been refreshing all day 😅
That's some real mental gymnastics to pretend Eleonor has no right to be pissed Vane brutally murdered her father in order to punish her because ... a)it wasn't her who got murdered? b)he was a bad father, which somehow further proves what a lucky bitch she is.
What is it with episodes 9 and deaths?
The season 3 finale is missing, noooo!
You guys should watch the show Turn
Yes!!
i love that the whole discussion of the episode is just them hating on eleanor lol! I actually never really hated eleanor, i just disliked her in some situations, but i definitely get why they and most fans do hate her XD
Yup. Her vagina.
Loving this Elenor bash session 🙌
A lil late but i'll take it!
23:06 'Hanged' Eric, he wasn't a tapestry
grippingrope99 lol touché!! When are they gonna do that book review?!
Sometimes I feel like the only one who actually likes Eleanor
grippingrope99 Yep. You're among the 0.5%....okay fine 0.6%
it's seriously disappointing. i found her fascinating. but I guess to guys she's just a "bitch". typical.
"Eric! Vane's dead! Eric! Vane's dead!"
Aaron is the Eleanor of Blind Wave.
"Earnest wouldn't have done this."
I think the Eleanor hate comes down to: None of the characters are good people, but it's much easier for viewers to want to root for the badass characters; in this show, it's the pirates (who we've followed for the whole show and know the most about). Vane's death was inevitable and warranted, and people shouldn't be so mad at Eleanor for being the one to (finally) do it.
If you like violent historical shows with great plot twists watch Turn, it's about Washington's spies and it fairly accurate
Last time I was this early the Avengers were still alive.
Vane... The purest of them all...
Part of this show was always toying between the mythology (the books), the history (Vane, and others did exist).
That is why I loved it so much...
From the idea that history was written by the victors, they took certain characters whose stories were probably vilified (to serve the Kingdom)... So this show lives in the gray area of the possible. But Vane still needed to hang ;(
By the way this story always had a vilain...
It is called England and its King (aka civilisation).
YT channel "A Pirate's Life" made a wonderful tribute MV for Capt. Charles Vane: Pat Razket - Hangman's Noose (Pirate Music) [Black Sails Fan Video] ❤🩹🧡💛💚💙💜
What bothered me about Vane's hanging is that, historically, it was too early. He was hung a year after Jack Rackham.
That and I had grown to love Zach McGowan's portrayal of Charles Vane.
Still find Teach's death the hardest of the series because of its nature
LOSE LIPS SINK PIRATE SHIPS
I loved Charles Vane when he died. He was my least favorite character S1 EP1
"everything is handed to her" dude you're describing max
No, he isn't.
Sorry this is off topic but guys... please do reaction for the walking dead trailer already -_-
This is the only time I actually enjoyed Vane. The actor was just too horrible in my opinion.