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Hey all, Jonathan here, wanting to follow up with a note that we've read your questions and concerns with BetterHelp over the years and shared in them ourselves. We stopped working with them for almost a year while we researched how the company is run today as well as what was fact and what was fiction regarding all the web chatter. Deciding to work with them again was the result of all of that research, which I've summarized here: www.reddit.com/r/cinema_therapy/comments/1dpriql/addressing_the_betterhelp_concerns_headon_deep/
@@tanakability thank you for expressing this. We've looked into it very thoroughly. Please consider: www.reddit.com/r/cinema_therapy/comments/1dpriql/addressing_the_betterhelp_concerns_headon_deep/
I think it would be fun for you guys to do an episode on La Muerte and Zibalba’s relationship in The Book of Life. Or just the book of life in general ❤ Thank you guys for this content. I love how you both break down movies to inspect the deeper meaning.
One more comment - the scene where Jenny sees her old house and throws the rocks is SO powerful, and actually Forrest's reaction is really telling of his character. At first he's startled, and recoils, but then he just watches with concern, says nothing, but just sits next to her and IS there for her, then says that marvelous line, "sometimes I guess there just aren't enough rocks," showing how much he understands that the act of throwing the rocks was helping her. It was the perfect reaction, and the most supportive thing he could have done. Beautiful.
I think she wanted Forest from the start, but the demons from that house and her father drove her away countless times. She tried to numb herself by engaging in wanton activities. Then realized, at the end, love was always there waiting for her. Some feel she was purposely manipulating Forest, knowing he'd always wait for her. And he'd never question Jenny when she said, "The child is yours." I'm conflicted by Jenny, but she didn't deserve what happened in that house. And stuff from our childhood comes out in weird ways as adults.
In my opinion, it's one of the most powerful scenes in cinema, because it's so raw, well acted, and portrays so many things with very little dialogue. It's just pure emotion. Genius storytelling.
Something I always loved in this movie, is when Forrest is at Jenny's grave, he mentions that he had Jenny's father's house torn down. Even though he personally didn't understand why she hated it so much, and why she was in so much pain because of it, he still got rid of it for her, even if she wasn't there to see it. And I think it really speaks to how insightful Forrest is, that he wanted to do that for her. That part makes me choke up.
I think he understood that terrible things went there, he was in the house when his mother had a... meeting... with the principal of the school, he heard his mom being, well, r4p3d, just for him to get into a normal school. I strongly suspect Forrest knew what was Jenny's father was doing, he may not fully understood all the implications or emotions but definitely knew it was awful.
@@julijakeitForrest literally called Jenny's father a "kind loving man" after Jenny threw rocks at her own house. He definitely didn't understand the terrible things that she went through whatsoever, which was one of the main reasons why she avoided Forrest in the first place.
That minute with Tom Hanks when he finds out about Little Forrest shows how much pain he's been through because of his intellectual disabilities. Throughout the movie, he's smiling and obliging and it's only in that wordless minute that you see how hurt he's been. And how happy he is that Little Forrest won't have to go through the same thing.
This moment is the reason I came to the comments. Tom Hanks! His face doesn't really move, but the eyes...the eyes make a radical shift. He's a tremendous actor and I love him.
Its heartbreaking because its something Gen Z (and millenials) are dealing with a LOT, with all kinds of disabilities. For me, its hard for me to not be scared about being a parent cuz I'm scared to pass on my disabilities. Not because I'm ashamed of myself. But because I know how much pain I've been through my whole life. And GenZ and Millenials (and hopefully Gen Alpha) know enough about themselves to know the current state of the world would be REALLY hard on a child with disabilities. People can be cruel. And as a parent, your whole job is to protect your child. Forrest is so strong for not breaking down right there. Tom Hanks. Kudos. What an actor.
@@nicanproud And the protection thing also scares me. Even if I have a kid that has no disability, the child would have to watch his/her mother have random medical episodes and ambulance rides. I don’t want to traumatise a kid.
A lot of people seem to gloss over the fact that Jenny and Forrest really depended on and helped one other during their childhood. Remember, Jenny was sitting alone on the bus that day too. Kids from poor, abusive families are often ostracized by other kids and targeted by bullies. We never see Jenny being friends with other girls. She probably got a lot of attention from boys as she got older while girls tended to look down on her. Forrest was the only person who ever truly cared for her. And growing up Jenny accepted Forrest for exactly who he was and tried to protect him when other kids were mean to him. You just can't underestimate the importance of that in a child's life.
@@chrisnotpratt1903 TL;DR not really. It is left ambiguous. Long Version: Considering Jenny's character, the virus, and her awareness of her eventual departure, it seems plausible that she would leave her son to Forrest to ensure the little boy isn't left alone in a foster home. Jenny knows Forrest would care for the child, even if the child isn't biologically his.
It's good to note that when Jenny says, "you don't know what love is", she doesn't understand that she's the one who doesn't know what love is. She's got a skewed perception of love. Jenny doesn't realize until the end that "love" is what Forest has to offer: unconditional, patient, kind, gentle, respectful, self-sacrificing, protective.
Up until that point in her life, except for Forrest, love has always been intertwined with pain. With feeling like less. With something being taken away.
@@jawbone78 Because people don't exist in a vacuum. People have their own Jenny who ran roughshod over their heart and then selfdestructed, leaving a lifetime burden on them. For a lot of people it's their *own mother.* They feel what Forrest can't- *anger* at being *used* by someone who never dealt with their childhood trauma and instead passed it onto others. That's not mutually exclusive with understanding that she was a horribly wounded person.
"GUMP! WHAT'S YOUR SOLE PURPOSE IN THIS ARMY?!" "to do whatever you tell me Drill Sargent!" "GOD DAMMIT GUMP, YOURE A GODDAMM GENIUS, THATS THE MOST OUTSTANDING ANSWER I'VE EVER HEARD, YOU, YOU MUST HAVE A GOD DAMM IQ OF 160, YOU ARE GIFTED PRIVATE GUMP!"
The Drill Sergeant's comment to Gump about OCS went completely over my head until our son went to Marine OCS nearly 30 years later. NOW that line is funny!! 😂
The line "He was a very loving man. He was always kissing and touching her and her sisters." has always haunted me because it implies Forrest *witnessed* the abuse and as an adult was too dim to realize what he'd seen. If the film *has* a villain, it isn't Jenny. In fact, we never even get a clear shot of his face.
I'm not so sure. Forrest never spent much time over there. I think that Forrest just heard about the father touching Jenny from Jenny, and didn't know what it meant.
@@janelleg597i disagree. Children know and sense a lot more than we think they do. I for example knew about my classmate's abuse and neglect at home when i was like 7. I couldn't name it but i felt it was there.
I get the feeling that he could tell there was something wrong about it, but he didn't really know how to describe what he'd seen. And it's not like anyone would've explained it to him - it was the 50's, and people probably would've assumed he wouldn't understand.
Can we appreciate that Alan has always been very open about his emotions and fears on this show? Being vulnerable is not easy. I love people who can let them tears flow without being ashamed or feeling judged or whatever. Every time he is moved he just feels it!!! Cinema Therapy is my favourite channel on YT! You are doing great work!!! ❤
The worst thing about Jenny's past, which is kinda just implied and then glossed over in the film, is that she had sisters. We never see them, and only she gets to live with Grandma. Even as a kid watching this it was haunting to me that the "very loving" abusive father must have killed her sisters in a drunken rage before his "nap", and Jenny has just been standing at the edge of her yard/that field, in shock, until Forrest finds her. I always wondered if she might have just stayed there and let her dad find her if Forrest hadn't gotten there when he did. She made no attempt to hide or run away until she is making him run with her.
Oh my. I never thought about what might have happened to her sisters. Maybe they were older and just ran away? But she was too young so she had to stay? Hopefully?
Damn, never thought about that. I always thought they were separated and could never connect again later on. Also her Grandmas place seems save but very small and "humble".
People get upset about Forrest not knowing about little Forrest. They seem to forget that Forrest spent well over 3 years running across the country in the 80’s with no cell phones or pagers available.
THANK YOU! It baffles me that people don't seem to pick up on that. It wasn't like a quick 30-second part of the film it was a really lengthy sequence. And we don't know once he stopped running when (if ever) Jenny found out he was back home.
This lines up with my understanding that people calling Jenny Toxic are probably young and not truly understanding what went on
2 місяці тому+40
Well, first know that I don’t think Jenny is a villain and I understand why she wouldn’t tell Forrest about his son, but… you seem to forget that his run was followed by the media who did know his whereabouts, to the point that a group of people could actually join him. So she could have find him or, more realistically send him a letter for exemple. So yes, she could have let him know sooner. She truly made the choice to wait (which, once again, I get why).
Biggest proof in the movie that Forest is a man of honor and intelligence: he did right by Bubba and kept his word about splitting the profits of their shrimp boat 50/50.
I absolutely loved the scene where he goes to Bubba's momma's house and hands her the check for half the profits and she collapses when she sees the check amount. 🥰
@@TheInfintyithGoofball the collapsed to her knees from shock at how much it was. She wasn't hurt, didn't have anything like a heart attack. But she grew up poor, lived poor, and got a check to become generationally wealthy. It was just something she didn't know how to process at the moment.
I've watched dozens of Cinema Therapy episodes. This one was your best. The compassion for people's inner humanity, the reminders of historical context, Alan's vulnerability about his greatest fears as a parent, the non-traditional love story that shows us Twue Wuv in a very different Robin Wright movie: It was just perfect. Thank you for your art and the beauty you both put out into the world.
I've always thought that the birth of Little Forrest was Jenny's turning point. She was almost there at the time she left Forrest's house in Greenbow, but still didn't quite believe she was worthy of love, or capable of having a healthy relationship of any kind. By the time she writes the letter that eventually brings Forrest to her, years have passed in which she has maintained a job, found friends, has rented an apartment that appears to be clean and comfortable, and is capably raising a child who is smart and loving. She has come to accept that just maybe she is the good person that Forrest has always seen. At that point, she is finally ready to let him in. Jenny has been running away from her past all her life - it's important that her first impulse when Forrest is being abused by bullies is to tell him to "Run, Forrest, Run!" - and this becomes symbolic again once Forrest begins his long trek across America. He is running away from pain, a reaction to Jenny's refusal that was in turn caused by her pain, but eventually he goes back home again. They are finally reunited only after both of them have stopped running and are at peace with themselves. I think that's really beautiful.
Forrest and his nurturance and love was the bedrock that turning point was founded upon. Forrest's ever-present love, despite her rejection of him, gave her just enough glimmer of self-value to survive her entire ordeal. Her mind was on Forrest constantly after she "ran away" in the cab. She was the one who didn't know what love was, until she experienced her mother's love for Little Forrest, and could reflect that back toward Forrest. Little Forrest's conception was inadvertent, as was all of Forrest's life. Forrest's love was costly for him, but it was a decision and commitment that never faltered.
Have you ever seen the waitress? A similar transformation happens when the main character has her baby. She finds the strength to heal and move forward and to leave her abuse spouse.
OR....she finally contacted Forrest because she knew she was sick/dying and knew her "emotional support friend" would step up and take care of their son. I contend that if she didn't get AIDS she may NEVER have told Forrest about his son.
One thing I'd say is Forrest's superpower is being present. He is super aware of the moment he's in at all times, and when there isn't anything happening he goes into standby mode.
Especially in that bridge moment. He’s portrayed to be ‘not smart’ and ‘unaware of social cues’ but he’s aware to understand there is something very wrong with what Jenny said. Even if he doesn’t quite know it’s suicide, he knows it’s a trouble sign. Movie gets points for that with me.
9:13 Alan speaks the truth. I always get annoyed when people hate on Jenny. She avoided Forrest because she cared about him. She knew she was a damaged person and didn't want to drag him into her self destructive cycle.
@@runespoor8917no, you forgot that almost every time they were met, it was by coincidence. She was even the one who called out to him at the rally scene. Why not just ignore him?
@@bideny2 Because she needed the validation, even if she tried to hide it. It’s completely understandable, she does like Forrest but then she feels guilty every time
I felt bad for Jenny, she was someone that had her own issues due to abuse and Forest had his issues because he was mentally disabled. Too many people want to call everything toxic just cause there's flaws in a relationship, this is why people don't stay married, they want to find the non existent perfect partner. It's crazy anyone would think Jenny is villain.
@@jackdeniston6150 Look she maybe does sometimes but as this video and the movie show its because of her own issues she is dealing with. Again that doesnt excuse it but its something that is understandable and not intended as malicious. She is not perfect, but she gets to a pretty good mental situation at the end and she treats him well
@@CoraleeneEdens OP is saying that traditionally "harmed" women are written to be perfect victims, and the rest of us real people get held to that standard because that's what the wider audience transposes onto real life within their expectations. So, when they're confronted with a more complex, gray vision of a "victim" they read her negatively. Don't be purposefully obtuse.
@@appalachiabrauchfrau wow just as condescending as the last guy. I'm saying that there are many ways to cope with trauma. To say that this one way is the "real person" way is super limiting to people who relate to other kinds of coping seen in the media. Calling anyone a "vapid manic pixie dream girl" because you don't agree with how they cope with trauma is not only sexist but also real cruel and gross. And yes some people do relate to those character tropes so a dump on the trope is still a dump on a real person. Literally disgusting how some people choose to talk about people.
Jonathan has the wisdom of an old man you’d find in an action movie that takes place in Japan, yet I keep seeing people in the comments saying he has the face of a baby Alan looks like a man, but cries like a baby. This is a duo made in heaven 😂
Lmaooooo I agree, Jonathan also reminds me of one of my friends who has a similar looking baby face (Jonathan’s just only missing being half Mexican) 😂😂
Man, that scene where she was throwing stones at the house was so heartbreaking. Everything from her unstable balance to erratic throws sells the full depth of her trauma.
This has always been my favorite scene in the whole movie, because it finally shows us the beautiful, vulnerable Jenny that Forrest has loved for all of those years.
Aaaand I’m weeping. When I first saw Forrest Gump in the theater I weeped at the line “sometimes there aren’t enough rocks” and every time hearing that line since (including in this video) I still weeped. It crystallized the concept that I never knew I hadn’t been able to say until then. Sometimes there’s no resolution. Sometimes there’s no closure. Sometimes there’s nothing to fix what’s been damaged …sometimes there aren’t enough rocks. Damnit. Weeping again.
Yeah me too. It was on later rewatches that I caught it. I think the line 'jenny's father was a loving man, always kissing and touching her' is very clear but vague enough that a child would not understand it. Very smart from the screenwriter.
I watched it as a teenager. I understood a lot and I appreciated what they were trying to do. But revisiting it as an adult hits so different. This movie was phenomenal and makes my heart ache.
I agree, I was in the same mindset as Forrest when I first watched it, and thought that Jenny was frightened of her neighbour's dog. We never hear what happened to her sisters either.
To me, there's always, always elements of both the environment you're raised as well as personal decisions/personal responsibility. Now in the case of Jenny, I would agree that her problems lean far, far more heavily towards the former.
The big thing to keep in mind in my opinion is that social ineptitude =/= autism. Everyone in today's world is so quick to label any form of social awkwardness as autism, but it is absolutely possible for someone to just simply be both socially inept AND be intellectually disabled WITHOUT necessarily being autistic.
Autism is not an intellectual disability. Just wanted to clarify that. We are of average or above average intelligence. Just simple accommodations and empathy from neurotypicals to survive.
@@JDMimeTHEFIRSTI don’t think she was suggesting that autism implied intellectual disability, at least that’s how I read it as a late diagnosed female. But I do see the importance of mentioning it for folks that are not more educated on autism. The Neuropsychologist actually said that it was BECAUSE of my degree of intellect that I was able to fly under the radar, so to speak. Conversely, my brother is just as, if not more, intelligent than me, but how his autism affects him has a more profound effect on his ability to exist independently. It really can both ways-both higher intelligence and low intelligence can hamper accurate diagnosis even for professionals specifically trained in it.
@@JDMimeTHEFIRSTI wish I got that with my autism but instead I got like three comorbid intellectual disabilities that nerfed me like crazy. At least I got the r-word pass when y'all don't 😜
"My parents loved me, they did the best they could, and the best they could hurt me in a major way" -this hit me right in the soul, I don't usually cry over these videos, but sometimes you say just the right thing and the huge part of me that desperately needs therapy is awakened lol
The one scene that always gets me is Forrest realizing he has a son. From the sheer amount of emotion Tom Hanks puts on display to his delivery of his lines, it's just heart-wrenching to hear him ask Jenny, "Is-is he smart, or is he... [like me]?" For the duration of the movie, Forrest is extremely aware of his own disability. He isn't entirely sure how to compensate for or overcome his own circumstances, but he *is* super cognizant of the potential harm he can bring to others, as well as how arbitrary the limits of doing something "right" or "wrong" is. He "rescues" Jenny from a topless bar when a customer harasses her, but Jenny is unhappy with how he handles it. He saves Lieutenant Dan's life, but for the longest time, Lieutenant Dan hates him for it. After intervening when Jenny's boyfriend full-on punches her in the face, Forrest is ejected from the Black Panther building. Time and time again, Forrest tries to do the right thing, but it just isn't entirely clear what the "right" thing to do is, and whether his own intervention will make things worse for people. He *knows* his own limitations and disabilities, but gosh does he try so hard to do good by others. So imagine how incredibly dumbstruck and confused Forrest was when he met his son, only for him to ask if his son is going to go through the same pain and suffering as he went through. In a moment of absolute internal chaos, the first thing on his mind was if he was going to bring harm to yet another person. In my mind, that scene is the perfect display of Forrest's character, and possibly the best acting Tom Hanks has ever done.
I always took Jenny’s leaving Forrest after spending the night with him as her acting on the belief and feeling that she was still a trainwreck of a person (though obviously derailed by her dad) and while she realised Forrest would make a good husband, she felt she would not make a good wife. That she knew Forrest would be happy to be with her and take care of her for the rest of their lives, but that she didn’t feel she could treat Forrest with the same sentiment and would end up using him as a life preserver or making him collateral damage in her trainwreck. She knew Forrest deserved the best version of her and she could not be that version, but Forrest would always choose her no matter which version she was so she made that decision for him.
I also think it's because she didn't want to take advantage of someone whi didn't have the best judgement & when I first watched the movie I was SO glad it didn't take that route
You are wrong to portray this as noble. It's self serving at best. She uses him as an emotional blanket all his life, abbandon him after any form of intimacy, didn't even tell him he has a son before YEARS go by. She didn't even respect his desires and choices. She string him along for decades before comming to him only once she has litterally no other options only to dump him with responsibilities he had no choice to take. She also, by keeping the pregnancy secret took years of necessary relations from her son. It isn't as if Forest was a violent guy, he was willing to take those responsibilities clearly. I'm NOT saying she had to stay with Forest all that time, it's the manipulative use of him that I critique. Yes she was a victim of her father but, as a survivor of decades of violence myself, I can tell you, this is the responsibility of the abused to break the cycle of abuse. It's on us not to perpetuate harmful acts to the others around us even if we are suffering. By the way I've been in a relationship where my ex was acting similarly to Jenny and it left me a wreck. We are 20 years passed, and I still haven't recovered fully from those abuses.
@@shorgoth Well to be fair. How could she? Movie starts with him going to visit her after he ran cross country for years. Cell phones weren't a thing then. As soon as she knew he was home, she called him.
One of the most beautiful things about FORREST GUMP is showing these deep, devastating, heartwrenching issues - like Jenny's father and later her getting sick - through Forrest's eyes and his (potentially) not understanding the details. They don't lay it out graphically or in verbal detail. We feel what Forrest does, that even without know the intricate details, we KNOW bad stuff is happening. If this story was told from Jenny's point of view, it would be so dark as to be nearly unwatchable. The way they tell it maintains the innocence of Forrest while still showing the darkness. And it's a masterclass in doing it.
And I love that we see him grow and understand deeper by telling the story from his POV - him letting Jenny's childhood home getting demolished is such a symbolic way of telling us that he finally got the core of Jenny, and his action is so important for her and for him as well to process the trauma.
I was just thinking the same thing - I LOVE Jenny’s character/storyline because it’s so raw and real and well done, but seeing it primarily through Forrest’s perspective adds a great element of “show don’t tell” to it while adding some much needed optimism to the overall plot
@@rocktheroadtowembleyHe called Jenny's father a "loving man" after the scene where she threw rocks at her house. So Forrest probably still didn't understand the core of Jenny's abuse, but he did understand that the house held terrible memories regardless.
As someone who has dated a Jenny… I needed this episode. This episode helped me to find compassion and understanding for her. I still love her. I hope she finds the healing she needs
I've always thought Jenny kept Forest at arm's length because she saw him as innocent, and because she would see being in a relationship with him would be taking advantage of him, the same way her father did to her.
@@blackangel163”She” (Jenny) didn’t want to become his parent? Lol, no. She wasn’t CAPABLE of being his parent, what she didn’t want was to come to terms with her own struggles and issues stemming from her childhood abuse, it had nothing to do with not wanting to be his “parent.” She wasn’t choosing to be “stronger,” she was continuing to run away. Not judging the character for that, but let’s not get it twisted.
I think they meant that Jenny would be taking advantage of Forrest like her father took advantage of her... As in, she didn't want to treat him like her parent treated her
I cried so hard with Alan in this video. "My greatest fears are that my kids are going to be like me." That totally crushed me, because I've never said it out loud. But it's true. And seeing my oldest fighting with anxiety as I do (and he's only 7) is just devastating. I lost my childhood for other reasons, but I hate the fact that, like me, he has to deal with things that a child simply shouldn't have to experience. But as you said, people are complex and there is always the bright side. And we are not alone. Thank you!!
I went through the same thing. when I was pregnant with my son I was so terrified that he was going to end up with some of the mental health issues I had but not so much the diagnosis, I can handle that but a fear that he (like I did when I was younger) would want to unalive himself and that is the scariest possible thing for me. I was reassured by everyone around me that I know what the signs and symptoms are so I know what to look for, I have an idea of coping mechanisms and other kinds of treatments & resources there are and I can guide him through it in case he does have an issue with it one day. Also I plan on taking my medicine in front of him every single day when he's old enough to understand he can't use them (He's only two now so it's not quite safe yet) but I want to reiterate to him that it is completely and totally normal to take medication everyday because it helps me think more clearly. It will be sad to tell him sometimes I worry when there's nothing to worry about & sometimes I feel sad when there's nothing to make me feel sad but that's just how my brain works. I think in those moments we can show them that as hard as life can be, we can still get through it and find good things as we go along and heal together. I wish only the best for you and your family. You're right we're all in this together! ❤☮️😊
I never saw her as a villain, but I never understood why she kept leaving him until I was directly told it was because she felt like she didn't deserve love.
she wanted love form the toxic men she kept messing with until she saw they were never gonna return it then went to Forrest to get worshipped and boost her ego then she goes back out looking for "fun"
@@Kenara-sd2oioh you poor Summer Child. Jenny was raised believing that she was worthless and undeserving of love. She was only ever shown love when she got naked and/or slept with a guy. That's why that night she slept with Forrest. She knew she had hurt him and she loved him. So she did the only thing she knew she could do to make up for hurting a man. Sleep with him. Afterwards she realized, that she basically forced herself on him (at least in her own Eyes) and did to him what her father did to her. That's why she ran away. She didn't want to hurt/ruin him the same way she was by her father and all the men in her life. You can't apply logic to people who suffer from cPTSD. We do irrational shit because we got ingrained into our being, that we were worthless unless we did XY. And it takes tons of therapy and years, if not decades, to get over this. IF you ever do.
"My greatest fears are that my kids are going to be like me in the ways that I don't want them to be" bro that thought went through my head before you said it and I am sitting here crying with you.
Many of us get caught up in the movies construction of Forrest as the hero who survives adversity with hard grit determination and moral character and think that he should be rewarded with Jenny as a trophy when they are both just trying to survive their own unique obstacles. We all deserve love and acceptance, how we get there is complicated. Great episode.
I was Jenny for most of my life. I was neglected, SA as a kid, and even more as a teen I was taken advantage of by awful adults. I prayed to be a bird like she did when I was a kid before I ever saw this movie. I didn’t want kids, or to get married, I didn’t want long term relationships. When I met my fiance (almost 9 years together now) I was still rebellious, and hurting, he helped me heal from my trauma, and come to terms with being an adult who’s responsible for where my life goes from here, despite my past. We have two kids now, and are getting married in 2025. He’s my Forest ❤ Jenny will always have a special place in my heart, the representation of a hurt escaping woman has still yet to be done to the caliber of Jenny
Congratulations on all of the hard work you've put in to get to this point in your life. I'm a survivor of childhood trauma as well, and it can be extremely painful and difficult to heal. And double congratulations on your family and upcoming wedding!
@@roftherealm3418 awe double thank you so much ☺️ it’s hard to feel accomplished about it, when I feel like all I did was survive, but goddamn it was hard to keep going sometimes.. I’m glad I did though, I meet cool people like you and life feels worth it again, I hope you keep going too, it’s hard, but it’s worth it to see the rainbows on the other side of the hill ❤️
In modern family there is a great line by Jay. It was something along the lines. "You love it when you see in your kid your greatest trates, but you dread when you see your greatest flaws."
I always thought she told Forrest he didn't know what love was because she was projecting. She *doesn't* know what love is. And didn't until she had her child and began working on herself for him. I love that they got together when it was completely right for them to do so, regardless of how little time they had after. 💜
It's the same when she tells him "You don't want to marry me." She's projecting her doubt that anyone would want to marry her, and the fact that she doesn't feel Forrest should want to marry her... she'll just ruin his innocence. A lot of Jenny's scenes/lines are her projecting her own insecurity onto Forrest. This could have been an episode about projection, instead of a "toxic or not"... though I am glad that they addressed all the hate against her and declared it wrong. I kind of see the hatred of Jenny as being similar to the hatred of Skyler in Breaking Bad. I'm sure there's a not-insignificant amount of misogyny involved in the criteria of these judgments. People who hate female characters anytime they don't just bow down to their man's needs and wishes, but actually have agency of their own... or just respond to trauma like a human being, instead of like the resilient perfect male hero character who remains unfazed and rises to the challenge no matter what. Walter White is a genius and Forrest is "not a smart man", so it happens in opposite ways, but they both are very unrealistic male fantasy type characters who just keep miraculously winning no matter what. Meanwhile, Jenny/Skylar is weighing the awesome man down and not just hanging off his arm, being his trophy wife, or doing his bidding, like they believe she should. THAT is why they believe they're the "real villains".
I think not so much projecting, as having a fundamentally flawed understanding of what love is herself. But she fully *thinks* she knows what love is, so she's not projecting. She's just wrong :D
What I love about the scene where Jenny introduces Forrest to his son is how well she reads his feelings without him articulating them. She really has come to understand him and acts instantly to protect him. It shows her growth.
When Jenny said, "You think I could fly off this bridge?" and Forest immediately understood the implications, that showed that he was actually more intelligent than he was otherwise portrayed to be in the movie. Same when, although Forest originally described Jenny's dad as being a very "loving" man, he still grasped the situation enough to understand why Jenny was so angry when she threw rocks at her childhood home. Especially since people didn't talk about that sort of thing in those days.
Huh, I read that as him NOT properly understanding implications but still wanting to help and THAT being the strength of his character. For the bridge example, he outright asks for clarification, he almost surely doesn't know what she's considering (i.e. jumping and dying). But he does understand is that she's suffering and upset, whether from her tone or how she compares the current moment to a past moment of distress (i.e. wishing to be a bird when running from her father, which Forrest can compare to when he'd ran from bullies).
@@finaldusk1821 Notice the tone of voice he uses when he asks for that clarification, though. Almost like, "You better not be implying what I think you're implying."
@@finaldusk1821 There is a slight panic in his eyes, as his gaze looks up from where her shoe kinda pops off of her heel, after she steps up onto part of the ledge of the bridge, and he steps toward her, in case he might need to act. When he asks her that, I think it's fear of what exactly she is implying. So, he knows what she's thinking. Forrest may not have the IQ, but he DEFINITELY has the EQ.
I think Jenny was projecting when she said Forrest didn’t know what love is. People like Jenny do deserve compassion. It’s also true that if you let people in this kind of spiral too close to you, they can burn you beyond recognition. It took her having a child to learn what love actually is. It was wonderful to see that arc. Too many people have kids and continue to self destruct. I wouldn’t say Jenny is the villain, but I think it is a clear picture of how you can be your own worst enemy.
You often don't learn until it's too late that your brain will naturally pattern your own parenting on what you saw growing up. It takes sustained, intentional effort to undo the toxic or abusive patterns and replace them with the right ones for your own kids. So anyone you know or met who grew up wrong and turned it around? They did it on purpose and it was hard.
I.e. how hurt people can (unwittingly sometimes) weaponize your empathy and do you considerable harm. Forrest never wanted anything and if you want to have nothing, love a severly damaged person... gets you there every time.
@@Raintigress I still work on that everyday. It’s incredibly hard, and I pray about it all the time. I take comfort that I’m way better than my parents, and I hope that means my kids will be even better than me.
@@ebadd3468 9 times out of 10, I absolutely agree with you. You can never save someone, and you can’t even HELP save them if they aren’t ready for it. Helping when someone is ready, if you’re strong enough, is truly amazing to see. But, don’t even try if you don’t have the stomach for it, and the person hasn’t asked for help. You’ll just destroy yourself.
Saying that Jenny always thought of Forrest as a child made me think, what if her sleeping with Forrest made her feel like she just did to Forrest what her father did to her? That would have been absolutely soul-crushing and the reason she stayed away for so many years, dealing with the guilt of what she thought she did.
I would think that Jenny thought of Forrest as a child in a man's body right until that night when he says he knows what love is. This is when she may see him as a man: a mentally stunted one, but a man nonetheless. And that's why she sleeps with him. Before then, she parades around with other men she sleeps with, not thinking twice of how it makes him feel, cause she things him a child who doesn't know anything about love, even less physical love. He's the nice little boy next door who has a childish crush on her.
I think it can easily be both - that she immediately second-guesses her changed perception of him and is horrified. And only as she finally settles down, and meets him again, she realises that no, that changed perception of him was the correct impulse.
This is exactly how I always read it - that she was horrified and ashamed bc she felt she had taken advantage of someone who she thought of as a child (even if in an adult's body) - and that she was just as bad as her father who took advantage of her when she was a child. And that she ran because of how much that thought fucked her up :( I hadn't watched the (full) movie until a few years ago, but I was aware of the discourse and the vitriol towards Jenny's character and wanted to watch it for myself to make up my own mind...and I just could not and still can't understand the level of bile people spew about her. She was a deeply traumatized and broken character who made decisions that were realistic for someone who had that kind of trauma (I've known a fair amount of women, some in my own family, who have gone through what she went through and it's very much true to life). Did Jenny make bad decisions that were both self destructive and hurtful to those around her? Absolutely. But it's realistic. Broken people who are traumatized, especially ones who don't have access to the mental help they need, are not generally known for making the best or most healthy decisions. Trauma is a hell of a thing and it takes a lot of time and work to heal what's been broken inside you...sometimes it takes a lifetime, and even then, it can still have lingering effects bc it was so major, that it changed you irrevocably. And that's not even getting into the time period either! Before therapy, traumatized people just had to do whatever they could to survive and just live with what happened - alcoholism & substance abuse was (& arguably still is) common for a reason - people will take whatever avenue they have access to, in order to numb the unbearable pain they're feeling...and before mental health services became a thing at all (& the lack of widespread accessibility is STILL a problem even today!), people's options for surviving & trying to cope the best they could with trauma were pretty darn limited. And please note that this isn't an attempt to excuse bad behavior, or hurting others because you're hurt. People are still 100% accountable for how they treat others and are responsible for their own healing. But I do think all this is important and is relevant context. Jenny is not an evil character or a villain. She's just a realistic portrayal of a deeply flawed, broken, and traumatized individual with all of the messiness, imperfections, and nuance that comes along with that. And I think that what people struggle with is that imperfection and nuance. They want an easy black and white character who's either all "Good" or all "Bad" with no room for the gray area in between that real human beings fall into...and that's just not realistic because unfortunately life isn't that simple...and while I can understand why some people would prefer that simplicity in the media/stories they consume, not every storyteller is going to want to go that route...some want to portray something that is more realistic in all it's messiness and complications.
Jenny has the most character growth in the movie. From an abused child to an abused adult, to contemplating suicide, to somehow recovering from that as a helpful, loving, supportive mom..
@@kimberlyrichardson5943 I'm don't know that I agree with the "child is something special" narrative.. I wouldn't agree with your view of Child Jenny, I might even strongly disagree actually. (pulling from my own childhood experiences) I think the feelings between Forrest and Jenny became complicated because where they were once just good friends.. Forrest starts portraying a different type of romantic and arguably even possessive (unhealthy) love for her. This would likely be a massive trigger for her, and honestly had he behaved this way as a Child.. they may have never developed a friendship to begin with. Having said all of that.. "Even in the end, I don't believe Jenny accepted being worthy of his love" I can see that as basically being a FACT.. not only from my own experiences, but others I know who have been thru similar things.. When you spend nearly 40 years hating yourself and telling yourself you aren't worthy of love, and suicidal.. that doesn't just go away.. in a couple of years of the BEST therapy you can find. It becomes a lifelong struggle and moments where those feelings return.. even after years of not feeling that way. If that isn't true, it should be, it's very accurate to the reality we know for many CSA survivors.
I think to the novelization of Return of the Jedi. As Vader is dying, we get his POV in that novel. He thinks about how he got this form and about his wife. He thinks about Luke and how Luke was good...and Luke was a part of him. So there must be good in him as well, somehow. In seeing the good in his son, he can finally start to see it in himself. Because his son is half him. I wonder if it's a similar thing with Jenny. She spent her life thinking she's this worthless, broken thing and then she had this beautiful child. This child who knows nothing except that he loves his mother. Yeah, his father was Forrest Gump but he came from her. He was quite physically a part of her for the pregnancy. He's half her. And maybe, just maybe, if she can help create something so pure and beautiful that this must exist within her as well. I think that child saved her life by simply existing.
The fact that Jenny eventually ends up recovering and in an overall good place is incredibly admirable and she doesn't get nearly enough credit for it. I'm very anti prequels, sequels, reboots and remakes but I think Jenny's story would be an incredible thing to explore and she deserves her own movie
@@valalava1 I genuinely don't think you could make that movie in mainstream hollywood. It would be *way* too dark for them. There are people off the beaten path that could do it, but there's no way they could get their hands on the IP.
Forrest Gump is the sweetest character that has ever been written. Unknowingly, he was just what both Jenny and lieutenant Dan needed. Not because he was their savior, but because he was the one person that showed them love and respect for the first time. If you ever make an episode about Forrest relationship with lieutenant Dan I'll be first in line to appreciate it. Thanks for this beautiful video ❤
Oh please do a Lieutenant Dan episode!!! I love him, & his interactions with Forrest "I guess he didn't want to be called crippled, like I didn't want to be called stupid" shows how much Forrest cares for Dan (Also look up Gary Sinise; that man is awesome)
I think I always hated Jenny because I projected my own shit onto her. Because it took her so long to heal, makes me afraid and angry that it will take me that long to heal because I can’t let go of some of my own stuff. And I’m sure that’s a better reason why people see her as toxic, at least I know that’s how I felt
@@martinolivares1567 Ditto, I never viewed Jenny as a villain, and understood that she was going through some dark trauma of her own. I've also gone through periods of self loathing, where I feel that I'm not enough for anyone around me.
Getting there does take time. A lot of time. There's no goal post here. Nothing saying you can't overcome the trials and tribulations of childhood trauma on your time. This is your journey and you can get to the post Jenny healing. Peace friend. ❤
I completely agree! When I was still in the thick of my family abuse, I hated her. She was weak. After trauma therapy she ‘suddenly’ became relatable, and this movie became a lot better. I was the broken piece in that. Great observation.
It finally made me not be that upset at myself, when i realized all i had to focus on was that day. And the next, just that day. And so one, and so on, and so on. Sometimes it shocks me how long it's been. I hope you come through each day loving yourself so much, you can get through any kind of Jenny situation faster than lightening and with the strength of a phoenix.
It's so truly sad to see how many people don't understand Jenny is a CSA survivor and all that it entails; it's truly a complete lifelong severing of one's psyche and love map/attachments. Maybe growing up with my mother allows me to see complexities others can't, because I can see the deep psychological reasonings of why Jenny did/said everything. How she saw herself in the eyes of men, how real love was terrifying to her, how drugs were an escape, and then the deep pain within her soul that Forrest never could truly grasp. It's likely something no one will ever grasp unless you are a CSA victim, or know one.
I always thought that Jenny was a great litmus test on empathy, especially on men. Cause if you just think of her as a villain, you're not someone who should be trusted around traumatized people. I'm so happy this episode exists
I actually sort of agree, I never agreed with Jenny or her actions but I always empathized with her and her trauma. But I’m not gonna lie, part of my family are Jenny’s and I’m basically their Forrest, as in I’ve been always tried to be understanding and empathetic throughout their trauma and it hurt me as a result. It’s a really tough line to walk, regardless of who you’re referring to, but I wouldn’t have had it any other way.
Serial killers also have a severely traumatic childhood. Most people have at least some trauma in their childhood. When you’re an adult, you still make your decisions. I empathize with child Jenny, less so with adult Jenny. I empathize with child John Wayne Gacy, but not adult John Wayne Gacy. There can never be accountability if you just blame everything on your childhood.
Kid Jenny & Forrest endured extreme isolation in childhood, Forrest being bullied & stigmatized, and Jenny enduring repeated abuses. They had each other as children and that was it. The reason adult Forrest was able to thrive was because eventually he had a healthy positive community that loved him… and most of it was pure luck. Jenny remained lonely & isolated most of her life, with the exception of empty sexual encounters. It is wonderful that Forrest loved Jenny unconditionally, but let’s be honest, one person love is not always enough to undo all the trauma & hurt from multiple people. I’m happy this movie steered away from the romantic movie trope that “love is all you need”
I agree. His mom was not that supportive. She was being a mom, but didn’t accept he was different and didn’t fight for him to be accommodated. She didn’t try to educate him better or help him. He was bullied and traumatized as well. He had to run fast because older kids beat him. That’s want supportive. It’s more to do with him being a man and lucky enough to stumble through some times. She’s a woman and the world isn’t friendly to us. We are blamed for people abusing us. We are blamed for enjoying sex. We are blamed for not being married. Women get paid less. Women couldn’t have credit cards until 1975. The reason he thrived is because he’s a white man. And it was easier for white men (still is).
@@Gadeberg90NOT true. You can actually love others and not love yourself. But many people love themselves and not others (these are called sociopaths /narcissists).
@@JDMimeTHEFIRST Yep you can LOVE others. What the other person was saying is they can't let themselves BE loved by others, & that's so different. It's like the person who always helps everybody, but when they need help, will do everything BUT ask for it. I know because in some ways that's still me. I work on myself a lot but it's still so hard to ask for help from people
@@JDMimeTHEFIRSTehm, regarding the mother - I am sure you did forget that she actually slept with the principal to have Forrest admitted to school and give him at least some chance? I think this really was the best she could do, those are the fifties not 2010s, and rural Alabama, and her without a husband. She also gave him this line about ' stupid is who stupid does' and a feeling that for her he was right as he was - I don't really know what you mean, I think she was portraied as a loving mother, and he knew so...
I loved Jenny and, sadly, related to her so much, even as a child. I remember that watching this movie filled me with hope for my own future: If Jenny, with all her mistakes and moments she’s not proud of, could be happy, than I, too, can achieve it
I felt exactly the same way. My dad had a bunch of VHS tapes or movies he recorded off TV and Forest Gump was one of them. I must have watched it literally hundreds of times during school holidays at his place. I always related to Jenny, even when I was too young to understand why.
One of the the things I love about Tom Hanks' performance is that you can see at several points that he simply doesn't know how to react. He's processing new information and he needs a moment to understand what other people just intuitively know. When Jenny throws her shoes and then rocks, it genuinely startles him. Several times, he looks like he wants to intervene but he doesn't know what to do so he waits. Even when Jenny collapses onto the soil he doesn't know what to say or what to do so he just sits quietly and waits. He doesn't say anything, he doesn't try to hold her. He just sits nearby and waits, like a gentle presence. He actually models really good behavior for how to comfort someone who needs to process their emotions. He didn't race in to rescue her from them. He just sat quietly and waited until she was ready to talk to him.
I yelled "YAY!" When I saw this. No villains, no bad guys, just a kind man and a woman who survived to much. I love this movie so much. Thank you for doing it. This was my first good special needs rep as an Autistic person. It helped me so much to know I'm not useless, and neither are 0eople in my comunity.
@@sameaston9587 a person doing evil things, sure. Absolutely. But not a villain. At least - not in the mustache-twirling trope people seem to crave in a story. There's this desire to paint a character (and by extension, people in our lives) as simply "evil" or "bad." It doesn't serve us well. I mean - don't get me wrong. A simple story with heroes and villains and sports (in the Princess Bride sense) without moral implications is fun and I like fun. But when a story isn't that - why try so hard to simplify it? Life isn't that simple. Trying to make it that simple blinds us to better lives through compassion or blind faith to people who manipulate us. The wonder of this story is that it offers a simple narrative view to a complex world where that juxtaposition highlights that complexity. It offers us a chance to reflect on the complexity in our own lives.
@@sameaston9587 Jenny isn't the villain, I agree, it was her dad, and her horrible life circumstances which moulded her into the person she was. I always felt sorry for her, even if she treated Forrest horribly at times.
Well Forrest isn’t really good rep because it plays into the stereotype of having to be really good at something to make up for it. So it’s the exact opposite of what you think.
As a family therapist working with chemically dependent, mentally ill clients I have used this movie for discussions of healthy family and personal relationships. Glad to see you guys "back me up."
I’ve never rewatched Forest Gump as an adult but when I was a child my mother would always say “Jenny trapped Forest and took advantage of him.” So I just assumed that was true. After watching this video, I realize that Jenny was a very damaged traumatized person that was not capable of being in a relationship with Forest for various reasons all having to do with her healing process. Now knowing my mom was a narcissistic physical and emotional abuser as an adult, it comes off as belittlement of Forest and projection of her own insecurities so thanks for this episode, it’s nice to see it reframed and feel vindicated.
My dad told me when I was little that Understanding that Jenny probably died of AIDS or an STD is one of the most powerful moments in the film. That she kept trying to run away from her problems. But it just got her sick living that lifestyle. That she knew better she was just Afraid and let fear run her life until she died and how it was so sad to see someone with so much potential fade away due to bad choices.
I've always seen this story as the redemption of Jenny, how Forrest's deep love was patiently present, but also how it took Jenny a long time to come to grips with her trauma and finally accept the process of healing. I've never known someone as hurt as Jenny was, but I've know a few who had similar traumas and how hard it is to come to loving oneself. I can't begin to fathom her pain but to see that transformation is the reason I keep coming back to this film.
I've never thought of Jenny as the villain of the film, and I was surprised to hear that she had been labeled that by some. To me, Jenny only ever did her best, which wasn't great, but it was, at different stages of her recovery, literally the best she could do. I know several "real" people like her, and while I would never be in a relationship with them, I have great compassion for them. Thank you for covering this wonderful film! I think you guys would have a lot to say about the relationships and traumas in these films: In Her Shoes The Last Samurai Shall We Dance P.S. I Love You About a Boy Keep up the awesome work!
Yeah, it is heartbreaking how incels carry run around the Internet pushing Jenny's character to be viewed as some kind of monster... Truly scary that these people exist. :(
Disagree, but not for the reasons you may assume. The reason nobody saw her as a villain, is because the movie wrote her that way, and even says so, therefore we're conditioned to, despite the fact the most of Jenny's actions are pretty wrong. Not sure if they're the best comparison, but look at characters like Mildred Rogers from Of Human Bondage (1934) and Ginger McKenna from Casino (1995), who both in their movies have received a similar animosity from audiences. But let me tell you this as someone who seen both movies, I GUARANTEE that Mildred and Ginger don’t receive close to the level of hatred that Jenny does. As for why, it’s probably because both movies made it pretty clear that while we see why people like Mildred and Ginger are the way they are, and we EMPATHIZE with them (Not SYMPATHIZE, take note of that...), it doesn’t change the things they have done throughout their respective stories. When Phillip (Of Human Bondage) and Ace (Casino) fall in love with these ladies, it's aware that both of them don't understand that this isn’t what love is. It even helps that both movies end with the male leads seeing that continuing to give Mildred and Ginger anything to make them happy, is not helping or making them change and they need to start taking control of their life without them, otherwise it can lead to consequences, which they themselves will be forced to blame for. So both movies show that this kind of romance is extremely toxic. Whereas in Forrest Gump, because Forrest was doing quite well without Jenny, yet still continued to bring her up, it comes as very rich of Jenny, who's reached her lowest point, to turn back to Forrest even though she continues to rebuff him, even after they have sex, despite rejecting his proposal, and then leaving him. But when Mildred or Ginger did something similar to that, everyone knows that this is wrong.
I've been telling them to do About a boy for years but they haven't yet. I love that movie, would love to have it on the show. It's packed with emotion. ❤
@@osmanyousif7849 But just because someone is very flawed and dose things that are wrong or not entirley right dosn't make that person a villain or even an antagonist. In my opinion the lable is compeltely wrong at all for a film like Forest Gump. In my opinion there is no Villain. Also why is Jenny labled the Villain when Leutenant Dan lashs out at Forest while dealing with his PTST and is not a nice person at that point in general? Why is he judged differently?
Sadly, this seems to be a reoccuring thing I'm seeing with people and them reacting to characters dealing with trauma (and it also reflects the way they respond to irl peopke with trauma). Their understanding and support is VERY conditional. If a character or person responds in a very "Hollywood," "heroic" way, or is mainly depressive, crying a lot and talking a lot about how hurt they feel, people respond positively and empathetically. Problem is, most actual people, and therefore most characters meant to be realistic, do not actual act or repond to traumas like that. If they actually respond like real people often do, developing unhealthy coping mechanisms, lashing out, do self-harming and/or self-destructive behaviors, etc., people react very negatively to it. They say that they're being "too messy," or "selfish"/"assholish," are "just using [their] pain as an excuse to hurt others." If, god forbid (and seemingly, especially, if you are a woman or a part of the queer community), you don't react perfectly, in a very neat, non-"messy" way, you are a "bad person" for having this trauma that you have to deal with, now with a smaller support base. And even more sadly, this seems to go double for those who have to deal with ongoing sexual abuse, because it's such a dark subject, that others often don't seem to know how to handle it.
I love how Forest never tries to fix the problem. So many men cannot see someone in pain, so they try to help by fixing the situation but there is no way to fix what Jenny went through. He simply exists by her side so she won't feel alone, and I wish more people could do this for people who are struggling. Sometimes just sitting with someone, with no expectations including to make the problem go away, genuinely helps.
Thank you for being so vulnerable and talking about fears that we all get in us. We don't want other people to suffer what we've been through especially our kids or future kids. We don't want the same things happening so we work on ourselves to heal and be more loving. I started to watch this channel couple days ago and I've been watching a lot now. I take notes on what you both share because it helps me to articulate some stuff that I want to experience and some stuff that I don't want to go through. It's very insightful and helpful. Also you guys have a great sense of humor and I love that. So the whole experience of coming here watching another video, crying because of Forrest Gump movie again and then witnessing such a vulnerable commentary is what Internet was made for. Thank you for both helpful comments and also putting smile on my face! You are great! ♥
also pretty sure there's important time/cultural factors to consider when baby jenny called baby gump stupid. i agree that she's being curious and trying to figure out who he is as a person, but also i think stupid carried a different meaning and context at that time.
Also, regardless of the time it takes place in, a child at the age of whatever jenny was in this stage of the movie simply does not have either the knowledge or the required mental capacity to understand intellectual disability or neurodivergent behavior and characteristics. Yes, children call each other stupid. Adults do too, often without overt bad intent. Ignorance should be forgiven, but not WILLFUL ignorance. Adults SHOULD know better because of their education and the availability of information, especially in an online age. (Which is why religious zealouts , racists, sexists, transphobes, holocaust deniers, conservatives in general to be honest, have absolutely no excuse to be as ignorant as they are. They have all the information they would ever want at the tip of their fingers, they just REFUSE to use it because it confronts them with their deepest fear: difference, either in identity or opinion. I will stand by that point till the day I die.) How many times have you called an adult stupid? I bet plenty of times. If we were to do a deep dive, a fundamental philosophical deconstruction of that term and the conditions to which it applies, we would always come to the conclusion that a "stupid" person has some sort of neurodivergent brain. We are all fundamentally different, and so on a foundational level, there is no "normal" brain. The more we learn of the brain, the more details we get, and the harder it is for us to call a person "stupid" without touching on a form of mental disability. Or rather, what constitutes as a "mental disability" becomes broader and broader as time goes on, because our understanding of how the brain works also becomes broader and broader. I will continue calling people stupid, regardless of their mental disability. Forrest Gump IS stupid. He is objectively not intelligent, I don't care whether he is neurodivergent. Down Syndrome patients are also objectively more stupid than an average adult. Of course, I personally say this without an intent to insult, it's just a clear observation. Unfortunately, "stupid" ALSO carries with it the connotation of being "lesser", of being "unworthy" of being "useless". Certainly a person CAN be those things in certain areas, but nobody is inherently and fundamentally "lesser", "unworthy" or "useless". We are those things only in a relative sense to a task at hand, never as an essence. Jenny didn't mean to insult Forrest here, though she might want to, kids being kids, what matters is that she was genuinely curious as to whether Forrest really was THIS dense. And yes, he was, plain and simple. Doesn't matter what fictional and very convenient (to the story) savant syndrome he has. Ultimately, the problem with people taking "issue" with confrontational language in the way social media often portrays, is that people online often refuse to take perspective, calm down, and look at things fundamentally and questioning things philosophically. Black and white worldviews are easier to propagate and get angry about. And the internet LOVES to be angry for about 5 minutes before moving on to the next petty drama. "Forrest Gump is ablist" is a garbage take, because garbage takes are edgy and the internet loves edgelords and propagates them like the spawn of a demon. The only cure for that is wilfully doing research, seeing things from other perspectives, and accepting the fact that the majority of people are not evil. I know. A truly shocking fact. Jenny can call Forrest Stupid. He IS.
Consider that scene in the context of the previous scene, the conversation between Forrest's mother and his doctor, which they both know he can overhear. Jenny is an honest and curious child; the society that she and Forrest live in is cruel.
Too many people use the word "toxic" for anything negative. Things can be imperfect. Poor Jenny had the WORST attachments figures in the WORLD, but could still deeply love and connect with Forrest. Man I felt for this character.
If your actions repeatedly hurt the people around you (including yourself) you are a toxic person. We just had the benefit of seeing Jenny's past trauma, thus have more empathy for her. However, make no mistakes. She repeatedly hurt Forrest. And his disability makes her actions even worse, as there was a big power unbalance in that relationship, which she seemed to use likely due to her own trauma. Anyone not seeing Jenny as a toxic person is not being honest. She may not have been intentionally cruel. However, she recklessly left a wake of misery for Forrest, who throughout everything, had an undying loyalty toward her. And one could argue that *trigger warning* what she did to Forrest was ironically, in some small way, similar to what her father did to her. Except that she used an innocent to feed off of emotionally instead of sexually. And even then, there was that one night. Her relationship with Forrest almost comes off as predatory. Even her marriage to Forrest seems manipulative. She didn't even approach him until she realized that she was dying and needed someone to care for her and her child after she was gone. Jenny is a tragic character, but she's not innocent. They say that hurt people hurt people and beyond Forrest, the person Jenny hurt the most was Jenny.
I remember watching this movie and thinking it was great but it wasn't memorable for me. Than I heard the internet saying Jenny being toxic it & believed it from what little I remembered. Watching this video has completely changed my opinion on the movie. I definitely get where Jenny is coming from since personally don't like myself (can't even remember the last time I've felt Liking myself in my 31 yrs) and that feeling sucks. Man, I completely teared up hearing Alan talking about how he was afraid that his children would inherited his bad traits because those are my exact feels right now and I'm scared shitless to have have kids. Watching this and writing this comment really resolved my desire to change that about myself. Thanks Jono, Alan, & the rest of crew of CinemaTherapy. Didn't know I needed this.
🤣 My husband and I have a running joke where whenever one of us is doing something stupid, we say "You better make sure that can count as 'service related.'"
Found a veteran. The VA "we are sorry to inform you that we had to cancel your appointment." VA Doctor "I need you to make an appointment to come see me"
The way I have always seen Jenny from Forrest Gump is that she could have gone the fairy tale route just like every other love story from the 90s and given the audience the fuzzies, but her story is a more true story that no matter how good a man is, he can't fix you.
Jenny's Father is the Villain of the Movie Jenny is simply a representation of "Hurt people, hurt people" This movie is basically about the importance of Therapy
I don’t disagree with what you just said. I also find myself wondering if the grace that people are willing to extend to Jenny would also be offered to her father if they discovered that he’d been abused as a child. Would he still be the villain? I think that it’s fair to ask, at what point are adults responsible for the pain that their actions cause? If she continuously hurts and uses an innocent soul like Forrest, why isn’t she a villain? Like I said, I don’t disagree with you. I also see where the people who dislike her are coming from. I don’t think that it’s as simple as saying F you to those folks.
@@TheSilverJediYou compared a woman making poor life choices and not wanting a relationship with a decent person to a man that sa's his own children. Yes. He is the villain no matter what his childhood is like. He knows right from wrong. She is not at all comparable to him simply for being a person who doesn't make all the right choices and feels bad for Forrest while being his only friend through childhood, but thinking herself unworthy of his protection and love when they grow up, making your entire point fallacious at best. I suggest watching the video again and getting over the "F you" in order to listen to everything else that was said. It's a shame that people want to vilify her, but can't even really say how she "hurt" people while comparing rejection to pedophilia. Geez. Empathy really lacks in some people...
@@Nikybeez Gotcha. Some people are responsible for the hurtful things that they do to others as adults and other people aren’t responsible. If one is on the receiving end of the pain, how can they determine whether or not to hold the one hurting them responsible? How does someone observing the behavior of people who hurt others decide whether or not they’re bad people? I personally believe that Jenny’s father was evil and deserved whatever punishment he could possibly receive. Absolutely he was a villain. The question that I find interesting is, knowing Jenny’s past as a victim of childhood abuse, how much responsibility does she have for not taking her understandable pain out on others? Is it possible to have empathy for her and still condemn her misbehavior. It’s a challenging thing to consider.
"Hurt people hurt people" is a fact of life, not an excuse. Flip the genders on their relationship and imagine an emotionally broken man leaving a mentally ill woman to raise their child. It's not good.
@@TheSilverJediSympathy and empathy are different concepts. Jenny is sympathetic, but her actions are still very condemnable. Jenny gets overblown hate, but I think most of the criticisms come from Consequentialists like me, who believe that morality is better judged by the consequences of actions than by intentions. Jenny's decision hurt Forrest, and was therefore wrong.
Something I love about Tom Hank's performance is that Forrest often has trouble finding words to express himself. But he communicates his thoughts (or that he is thinking) with his eyes. He gets very still and by following his eyes, you can see exactly what information Forrest is processing. Maybe the best example is when he looks at Jenny, then Little Forrest, then Jenny, then Little Forest. It's so clear what he's thinking. He wants desperately to talk to little Forrest but he has no idea how to ask or if that's something it's even appropriate for him to do. Such brilliant acting.
Thank you VERY much for this video! Even as a child it was clear to me that Jenny was a victim of sexual abuse growing up in an America where such a topic was unknown or taboo. Yes, she hurt Forrest with her behaviour. Yes, Forrest deserved better. And so did Jenny. Their story is of 2 fundamentally good people trying to get together but mutually hurting and repelling each other over their respective issues. Alas, it’s easier to cast Jenny as the villain, or say that as an adult she’s ultimately in control of her actions. Its attitudes like these coupled with a lack of therapy that keeps abuse victims silent.
Thank you sm for reacting to this movie and about Jenny, specifically. I remember there was a moment in my AP Psych class in high school where the first week of school, we had ice breaker questions in our groups that the teacher placed us in, and one of the questions asked what our favorite movie was. I responded with LOTR and Forrest Gump and my groupmates were so shocked that I could love that movie with Jenny being annoying and a b*tch to Forrest and I responded with, "your response to a fictional character's trauma tells me more about who YOU are than what I know about Jenny" and that shut them up quickly. Imo, Jenny was that character that made me understand how to empathize with people that were hurting and in agony and I still remember feeling so sad for her when I first watched it as a 6 year old. No one will ever gaslight me into thinking that Jenny is the villain of the movie and I'm so glad I'm not alone ❤
Although Forrest had a right to know he had become a father much sooner, remember that he went running for three years, so Jenny had no way of reaching him for those years.
24:12 to 24:22 completely shattered me. I’m not a parent yet, but in the near future I probably will be. And that is exactly how I feel. I struggle with anxiety and depression and overthinking and being too emotional and everything in between. But when I moved in with my fiancé, I made a promise not only to him but to myself. I was going to go to therapy, go on medication if I have to, confront my personal trauma, do active mental work/retrospection on why I am the way I am, and actively work on managing and/or fixing it. I have been doing this for sometime now and I have improved. But I’m terrified that when the time comes for me to have kids, I won’t have my issues under control enough so I don’t transfer it onto them. Thank you Alan for being vulnerable, honest, and emotional for us once again. It truly helps to know that there are other people out there who can really understand the things we go through!
The point of the movie is that parents words and attitudes towards their children affect them for the rest of their lives. Forrest’s mom told him that his disability doesn’t limit him, and treated him as normal. Jenny’s father told her she was a whore and treated her like one.
I look at Jenny sleeping with Forrest and then leaving the next morning a little differently. I think that was the first time Jenny actually felt a true emotional tie while having sex with someone, and it surprised and confused her. Up until that point, sex had always been linked with pain for her. Either physical pain (her father, her abusive boyfriends, the abusive one night stands) or emotional pain (sex = escapism). This was the first time she felt something else, and it scared her, and also probably left her feeling a little icky, like she had unintentionally used Forrest in the way she was accustomed to being used by others. She left because she knew she was still messed up mentally and emotionally, she couldn't be a good partner for Forrest in that state and didn't want to be unfair to him.
I think this is a great take: she emotionally connected and since that was unfamiliar, that scared her. When I was a teenager, I probably thought “why did she make love with him and then just leave him? I’m so confused didn’t she go to his room” So that feels like that question has finally been answered & in a way, that actually makes this a really important scene… the moment she finally has a healthy sexual relationship & that this is what she has been missing.
When Jenny was self destructing she always told Forrest to go away. He chose to follow and stay. That doesn't make her toxic. That's Forrest hurting himself with good intentions.
nah what's makes her toxic is every time she got used up then and only then she wanted Forrest attention. when he was making good efforts to show her attention and love she pushed him away to date other men
@@Kenara-sd2oiyou sound angry that Jenny doesn’t “reward” Forrest for his genuine care for him with romantic reciprocation. He never expected her to date him, he just wanted to make sure he was okay, no matter what that looked like. Even after everything he does for her, Jenny STILL wouldn’t owe him a romantic relationship because they’re FRIENDS first and foremost. She only ever wanted a friend and he did that for her. Forrest doesn’t need any defense against Jenny’s actions.
@@khaleesi_cosimaYou're not wrong, but it's hard not to be a little pissed at someone who pushes away the people who care about them. Even a loving friend or family member would feel "cheated" when she up and leaves them to fall back with the wrong crowd.
@@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462 It hurts, but it helps to realize that such a move comes from a deep-seated self-destructive approach to life. People with terrible self worth (brought on by whatever reason) intentionally push people who care about them away, and engage in self-destructive behaviour, so they can punish themselves. It's not at all easy for the loved ones to deal with it even after understanding, but it helps to see it as a cry for help, rather than a wilfully hurtful act directed at them.
Oh man, this video made me cry😢😢😢 I loved this movie, but your account of being a dad and coming to grips with the fear of not wanting your children to make your mistakes or to have your flaws is one of the absolutely most relatable manly things ever. I have always struggled with that too and to see you be so vulnerable, just broke me down man. Thank you for this video man, it was truly an amazing video
One thing I love about this movie that I never see people discuss is how Forest and Jenny serve complimentary roles in the theme. The whole thing is really an anthology of a few decades of American history, with Forest always being right in the middle of mainstream culture and Jenny always finding her way to the dark side, or the counterculture. He had a loving family, she had an abusive one. He was a football star and war hero, she was a drug addict and a hippie. And their reunions are always at places where it makes sense for culture and counterculture to be meeting. Also, I think it's important to point out that "villain" and "antagonist" do not mean the same thing. I have never seen Jenny as a villain, but from a story structure perspective, I absolutely do see her as the antagonist of the film, in that she is the person who acts in opposition to the protagonist achieving his ultimate goal. That doesn't make her bad or evil. It's just a plot thing.
24:00 Ok... This is where I completely lost it. My 6 yr old daughter thinks I'm so smart and talented, and wants to be with me all the time. And yes, I'm TERRIFIED that she will become like me in all the ways that I am still healing from. I also know that for the first couple years of her life, she saw all the behaviors from me that I don't like, because as a tired, overworked, single mom, I couldn't control what version of me I was around her. I so appreciate Alan's vulnerability here. So relatable.
@@EH23831 thank you so much. Sometimes I think it's our sincere intentions that carry us and our children through. She knows I love her, and I hope that's enough.
She'll be fine. I come from parents who experienced extreme poverty (and I mean hungry-poor) and abuse during the Great Depression and during WWII. They had problems, believe me, but I also knew they loved me and my brothers and did the best they knew how even though they made mistakes for sure. Some of their trauma passed on to me--it can't be helped--but it's tiny compared to what they suffered. And I've got a son who is doing marvelously with his kids because I worked hard to make sure as little of the trauma passed on to him. So you and your daughter will be fine; over the generations, because you're improving and working on it, it'll get better. I'm looking at my beautiful, happy, loving grandchildren, and I know it.
I appreciate Alan being so vulnerable this episode. It was refreshing to see as someone who doesn’t have a lot of men who show emotion in my life. Keep being you Alan❤️
Man, seeing Alan able to be open and raw with his friend whom he clearly trusts, is just great. I love it, such a great relationship to have where you don’t feel a threat to your manliness for being open about your emotions and feelings, and Jon just letting Alan have his moment, not judging him for it. It’s a breath of fresh air guys. Love this movie, love your video, thank you for creating and sharing it.
Forest also had a good circle of people who supported him. He was driven by goals, had direction and when he wasn't sure I'm pretty sure he had people that were willing to help.
My own therapist used "The Glorious And" for me years ago! I used to struggle a lot with how I perceived my parents because on one hand, they did so much for me and it clouded the many times they failed me. My therapist then told me word for word: "Your parents love you, they did the best they could, AND the best they could hurt you." Things have gotten better for me since then, especially now that I've told my mom that exact phrase to her directly. We've come to an understanding and that's helped our relationship now that I'm a young adult trying to make my own way in the world.
I'm so very grateful you covered Jenny and Forrest. I identify so much with Jenny, though in my case it wasn't my father, it only happened once and it didn't go nearly as far as what Jenny had to experience before I got away. It messes with your head, ruins relationships of all kinds, and it feels like it's never going to truly get better. I haven't come as far as Jenny has and I admire her so much for how strong she's been. Her struggle isn't weakness or villainy. She came out alive, which is simply admirable.
I’m sorry you relate to her in that way. I hope your life can be full of healing and love in the future friend. I love her story and how impactful and real the writers made her.
"We don't know what's underneath." It's so true. We don't know how the toxic person was raised, how their parents were raised, and their parents, and on and on. That doesn't mean we excuse the behaviors, but looking at the behaver through those eyes changes everything about how to respond to them.
The scene where Forrest meets his son absolutely wrecks me every time. The writing and the performance are one thing, but what it demonstrates about Forrest's understanding of himself in relation to society at large, and the fear that he might have visited his struggles onto his son....it's just beautiful and heartbreaking.
I can’t believe someone could be so obtuse to what Jenny goes through. The way she views and thinks of herself breaks my heart so much. This is definitely in my top 3 favorite films. It’s so layered and multifaceted. It is a perfect film. AND THANK YOU! Forrest is not a “smart man,” but he’s definitely not a victim or helpless. He has wants, desires, needs. He is ambitious. He started a shrimp company, and made it a huge success. He would probably be a billionaire by today. I wish you would do a whole series examining Forrest’s relationships with each character. The Bubba video would probably make me cry more than this one did.
Just want to thank you for this video. Made me bawl my eyes out but as someone whose been SA’d it means the world to see people defending us and showing real empathy and understanding cuz it’s incredibly rare. We often are villanized. Appreciate you.
There was a very popular Reddit post that explained why Jenny wasn't a villain in the movie. The whole deal with pushing him away was not because she thought less of him. So much as it was that she was worried he wouldn't be able to properly consent, and she'd be hurting him like her father did to her.
Both of them are people who have been through varying degrees of trauma. They have both had times where they helped and hurt each other. They are imperfect people navigating a world that hurt and rejected both of them. All and all, they had an okay relationship. Some stuff was healthy, some was unhealthy.
This is my favorite movie. I've seen it so many times, i could quote it from star to finish. I will never understand the ''fun'' in the Jenny is evil joke. Anyone with 2 brain cells could see that what happenned to her dictated most of her life choices. Their relationship is not perfect sure, but is not toxic and this movie is beautiful.
24:32 I told my psy that my biggest fear was to give my future kids my flaw and my trauma. It came out as : it would be easier to love some else kid or to foster kids in need. I’m deeply touched by this video. Thank you so much ❤
For Jenny, the one thing I really wish she didn't say to him is her assumption that he doesn't know what love is. I'm autistic, and it hurts when people assume that we can't love as deeply as neurotypicals. We do know what love is, romantic or otherwise, and we have the capacity to love and care for others. And as for Forrest, there are times where he should have been more delicate about helping Jenny, and he shouldn't be too imposing when she puts up boundaries. Respecting her boundaries is just as important as her respecting his humanity.
To be fair I think she is the one that don't really know well what love is at this point of the movie. She as mostly experienced really abusive relationships since childhood and has a really disorganised attachement style.
I think the ironic and sad thing about that line is that Jenny is....not projecting, exactly, but certainly punting her feelings at Forrest so she doesn't have to deal with them Basically , Forrest unintentionally backs her in to a corner in that scene and- because all her internal alarms are blaring- her brain goes: "I'm uncomfortable, overwhelmed and confused. I don't know what to do with these feelings. Here, Forrest. you have them. Catch!" She doesn't mean to hurt him. I don't think, she's just desperate for an out and not thinking very clearly. So, she goes for what she reckons is "the nuclear option."
I always thought she told Forrest he didn't know what love was because she was projecting. She *doesn't* know what love is. And didn't until she had her child and began working on herself for him. I love that they got together when it was completely right for them to do so, regardless of how little time they had after. 💜
I think it gets overlooked by a lot of people because the movie frames it mainly as a joke, but the scene where Jenny shows Forrest her chest is *pivotal.* It’s after that scene that Jenny starts actively pushing Forrest away, and I think it’s because she’s worried that what she’s done is sexually abused him the way her father did her. Jenny recognizes that her lifestyle is self-destructive, and pushes Forrest away to spare him her misery.
Sadly, I've known several people in my life who have been through some of the same trauma as Jenny so I never saw her as toxic, I watched the movie and hoped she'd finally realize her worth in the world. It took her a very long time to get there but I was happy she finally did. Some people never learn how to deal with their traumas. There's a song by a woman named Christine Lavin called "Damaged Goods" and it pretty much sums up how I see Jenny. She sees herself as damaged goods, no good for someone as kind and gentle as Forrest. No good for anyone. Every time I see this movie I think of that song.
I love the commentary you just gave this. I've never understood how people labeled Jenny the worst person ever. She is an incredibly damaged hurt person who flewaway from her problems in anyway she could because she had zero tools to deal with what had been done to her. I really don't think the people who says she's the villain understand trauma and likely have never been threw something like that so they simply can't relate and only see it from Forests point of view. It's wonderful to see that she does grow and heal and instead of continuing that cycle with her son she creates a stable safe and happy environment for him to thrive in. Also as the parent of a child with Autism who has a lot of similar traits as Forest (so loving friendly to everyone loyal to a fault but doesn't always know how to act in social situations and is judged so much for it) I love so much that this movie shows him making important lasting and strong relationships with other people other than his momma. Mine has finally started making friends who are real friends and don't judge him and respect him for who he is and it's beautiful to see and gives me so much hope for his future.
I had not thought about the concept if “my parents did their best, and their best messed me up.” I certainly was of the mindset for a time that I would just call my father toxic, but now I’m realizing that he’s doing his best, it just affected me in the wrong way.
Yes, I think a lot of this is a cycle of trauma and hurt. My dad did his best but a lot of it was messed up and it hurt my older sister (he was mostly healed when I was growing up). It wasn't until I was an adult that I learned about the horrific things he went through that he kept from us.
When I started elementary school in the 90s, the teacher who didn’t have a classroom but assessed kids’ speech and learning levels kinda deal, told my parents I had “mental retardation” and I should get more testing done. My parents were upset and in denial but I was stoked because that meant I was like Forrest (my second favourite movie as a kid) so I thought I’d play ping pong for Canada, show the Prime Minister “my buttocks”, and save my buddies from a bad fight. Didn’t see a specialist or anything until my late 20s, since my parents didn’t wanna believe anything was wrong with me. My wife urged me to see a psychiatrist and it turns out I have ADHD and/or level 1 ASD lol. I couldn’t save my best friend from himself, came up short on my athletic pursuits, and don’t know anyone of high importance, but still living my best life, I have a son that is almost 2 years old and I’m told I’m a great dad. So although I technically have a “disability” I am still thriving despite the tough road I had to go through thus far without actually being aware that im neurodivergent. Also my wife says it’s a “difability” and that I was born so powerful, that all the deities in the universe had to nerf me lmao which I really enjoy. I agree with your guys’ opinion that Forrest Gump is a positive portrayal of intellicutal disabilities and does a good job of showing the diversity of how intellectual disabilities can present itself differently for each person. If anyone read my wicked rank ramble, thank you, I hope you have a wonderful life and remember to take care of yourself, if you ain’t good to yourself, ya can’t be good to anyone, more or less anyways lol
The first time I watched this movie I HATED Jenny. I felt she used Forrest when it suited her and treated him like garbage when she didn't need him. It fed how I felt I was treated by some women when I was younger. I later realized I was putting undo expectations on girls/women who saw me as a friend. And how I was treated was based on the boundaries I never set. When I watched this again, with more mature eyes and from a better place emotionally, as someone who was now in a stable place, I could understand her behaviour more. I could understand why she feared commitment and staying in one place. I could understand why she let herself be treated like crap by the men in her life and did not trust someone like Forrest who just accepted her for who she was. It was only when Jenny healed and became a mom and faced her mortality that she saw she COULD be loved. She COULD be happy and have a stable home. And that she could love someone back who deserved it.
I agree also !!! I felt the same way. Jenny annoyed me when I first watched the movie and when I was younger. But she grew sooo much and got a redemption. She apologized for her actions and asked Forrest to marry her and they got together even though they weren't married for too long.
@@Oneasianpersuasion It's interesting that you mention Jenny getting a redemption, because it reminded me of something Jono said way back in their Mad Max Fury Road episode, which has been instrumental in me learning to heal from my own traumatic childhood and forgive myself for my past mistakes. Basically, anytime we think about redemption in stories, we conceptualise it as turning away from evil and villain and becoming a good person, right. But Jono pointed out that redemption isn't only from the bad things that we do, but also from the bad things that were done to us. And the reason why we often don't realise that is because the latter often lead to the former, so we tend to focus on the former and don't really get to view people healing from being abused or hurt as redemption. But when you really think about it, it absolutely is
I also understand why she did all those awful things. I understand why she was a mentally broken abuser that perpetuated cycles of abuse. I just don't excuse any of it. Another way to look at it, she saw her mortality, her decades of bad choices and hurting people who didn't deserve it, and realized she was about to leave her kid without a parent, so she FINALLY decides to let his father know he even has a child, knowing that when she dies, Forrest is a moral enough person to raise his own son. There's no indication that without the AIDS diagnosis she would have ever told Forrest about his son. Maybe that's because that plotline comes in the last bit of the movie and they didn't have time to show the transition from "unrepentant, selfish narcissist" to "loving partner and mother." Maybe it's because that transition never happened to that character. Every time I watch this movie, I still hate Jenny. I feel bad for her, but at some point a person has to admit their culpability in their own choices and actions. All of those reasons you gave for hating her are real and shown in the film. You just have to have enough nuance to be able to have sympathy for an objectively bad person. Your situation isn't quite 1:1, as I don't believe Forrest was putting expectations on Jenny to be anything that she wasn't. I can also see how Forrest might get some mixed signals after Jenny (debatably) sexually assaults him in her dorm room. I haven't seen anyone even mention that scene in these comments when hopping on the Jenny Did Nothing Wrong bandwagon...
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Isn't BetterHelp criticised for being sh*t and sometimes doing the opposite of helping...? You guys may want to look up the controversy around them...
Hey all, Jonathan here, wanting to follow up with a note that we've read your questions and concerns with BetterHelp over the years and shared in them ourselves. We stopped working with them for almost a year while we researched how the company is run today as well as what was fact and what was fiction regarding all the web chatter. Deciding to work with them again was the result of all of that research, which I've summarized here: www.reddit.com/r/cinema_therapy/comments/1dpriql/addressing_the_betterhelp_concerns_headon_deep/
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You guys shouldn't be sponsored by betterhelp. They allegedly had issues with unlicensed therapists and potential alleged issues involving HIPPA.
I think it would be fun for you guys to do an episode on La Muerte and Zibalba’s relationship in The Book of Life. Or just the book of life in general ❤
Thank you guys for this content. I love how you both break down movies to inspect the deeper meaning.
One more comment - the scene where Jenny sees her old house and throws the rocks is SO powerful, and actually Forrest's reaction is really telling of his character. At first he's startled, and recoils, but then he just watches with concern, says nothing, but just sits next to her and IS there for her, then says that marvelous line, "sometimes I guess there just aren't enough rocks," showing how much he understands that the act of throwing the rocks was helping her. It was the perfect reaction, and the most supportive thing he could have done. Beautiful.
"I guess there just aren't enough rocks."
The fact that he frickin makes sure to tear that house down later in the movie makes me love him even more.
I think she wanted Forest from the start, but the demons from that house and her father drove her away countless times. She tried to numb herself by engaging in wanton activities. Then realized, at the end, love was always there waiting for her. Some feel she was purposely manipulating Forest, knowing he'd always wait for her. And he'd never question Jenny when she said, "The child is yours." I'm conflicted by Jenny, but she didn't deserve what happened in that house. And stuff from our childhood comes out in weird ways as adults.
"don't just do something, stand there"
In my opinion, it's one of the most powerful scenes in cinema, because it's so raw, well acted, and portrays so many things with very little dialogue. It's just pure emotion. Genius storytelling.
Something I always loved in this movie, is when Forrest is at Jenny's grave, he mentions that he had Jenny's father's house torn down. Even though he personally didn't understand why she hated it so much, and why she was in so much pain because of it, he still got rid of it for her, even if she wasn't there to see it. And I think it really speaks to how insightful Forrest is, that he wanted to do that for her. That part makes me choke up.
Yes! I always remembered that too!
I think he understood that terrible things went there, he was in the house when his mother had a... meeting... with the principal of the school, he heard his mom being, well, r4p3d, just for him to get into a normal school. I strongly suspect Forrest knew what was Jenny's father was doing, he may not fully understood all the implications or emotions but definitely knew it was awful.
@@julijakeitForrest literally called Jenny's father a "kind loving man" after Jenny threw rocks at her own house. He definitely didn't understand the terrible things that she went through whatsoever, which was one of the main reasons why she avoided Forrest in the first place.
In the context of the movie, I think Jenny is there to see it : the birds in the tree above here grave represent her soul sticking around.
@@julijakeitshe wasn't r4p3d. She used sex to get her son in school.. We aren't shown who initiated it. I always assumed it was Mama.
That minute with Tom Hanks when he finds out about Little Forrest shows how much pain he's been through because of his intellectual disabilities. Throughout the movie, he's smiling and obliging and it's only in that wordless minute that you see how hurt he's been. And how happy he is that Little Forrest won't have to go through the same thing.
That breaks my heart every time. As someone with a severe disability, it’s my greatest fear that I have kids who have the same condition. ❤
@@missylks1239mine too because while my life has been GREAT…it’s been hard at times because the world wasn’t made with my disability in mind
This moment is the reason I came to the comments. Tom Hanks! His face doesn't really move, but the eyes...the eyes make a radical shift. He's a tremendous actor and I love him.
Its heartbreaking because its something Gen Z (and millenials) are dealing with a LOT, with all kinds of disabilities. For me, its hard for me to not be scared about being a parent cuz I'm scared to pass on my disabilities. Not because I'm ashamed of myself. But because I know how much pain I've been through my whole life. And GenZ and Millenials (and hopefully Gen Alpha) know enough about themselves to know the current state of the world would be REALLY hard on a child with disabilities. People can be cruel. And as a parent, your whole job is to protect your child. Forrest is so strong for not breaking down right there. Tom Hanks. Kudos. What an actor.
@@nicanproud And the protection thing also scares me. Even if I have a kid that has no disability, the child would have to watch his/her mother have random medical episodes and ambulance rides. I don’t want to traumatise a kid.
A lot of people seem to gloss over the fact that Jenny and Forrest really depended on and helped one other during their childhood. Remember, Jenny was sitting alone on the bus that day too. Kids from poor, abusive families are often ostracized by other kids and targeted by bullies. We never see Jenny being friends with other girls. She probably got a lot of attention from boys as she got older while girls tended to look down on her. Forrest was the only person who ever truly cared for her. And growing up Jenny accepted Forrest for exactly who he was and tried to protect him when other kids were mean to him. You just can't underestimate the importance of that in a child's life.
She only acepted forest until he was already succesfull. Before that she sent him away every time.
@@rapatacush3yeah, and the kid probably isn't even his.
@@iHeartAMP the movie is implying that it was his, though.
@@chrisnotpratt1903 TL;DR not really. It is left ambiguous.
Long Version: Considering Jenny's character, the virus, and her awareness of her eventual departure, it seems plausible that she would leave her son to Forrest to ensure the little boy isn't left alone in a foster home. Jenny knows Forrest would care for the child, even if the child isn't biologically his.
She was mean to Forrest, along with everyone else and thrived. Don't try to sad-wash her life because she's a she.
It's good to note that when Jenny says, "you don't know what love is", she doesn't understand that she's the one who doesn't know what love is. She's got a skewed perception of love. Jenny doesn't realize until the end that "love" is what Forest has to offer: unconditional, patient, kind, gentle, respectful, self-sacrificing, protective.
Yes, and the movie is not particularly subtle on the point either. It's genuinely shocking to me how people completely misread her in this film.
Up until that point in her life, except for Forrest, love has always been intertwined with pain. With feeling like less. With something being taken away.
@@jawbone78 Because people don't exist in a vacuum. People have their own Jenny who ran roughshod over their heart and then selfdestructed, leaving a lifetime burden on them. For a lot of people it's their *own mother.* They feel what Forrest can't- *anger* at being *used* by someone who never dealt with their childhood trauma and instead passed it onto others. That's not mutually exclusive with understanding that she was a horribly wounded person.
@@jawbone78 Yes, it's even more obvious because the men she dated were abusive. That's all she knew about love
Note that she finds out what that is when she herself has a kid. That kid saved her
"GUMP! WHAT'S YOUR SOLE PURPOSE IN THIS ARMY?!"
"to do whatever you tell me Drill Sargent!"
"GOD DAMMIT GUMP, YOURE A GODDAMM GENIUS, THATS THE MOST OUTSTANDING ANSWER I'VE EVER HEARD, YOU, YOU MUST HAVE A GOD DAMM IQ OF 160, YOU ARE GIFTED PRIVATE GUMP!"
I always laugh at that part XD
The Drill Sergeant's comment to Gump about OCS went completely over my head until our son went to Marine OCS nearly 30 years later. NOW that line is funny!! 😂
They say he's gonna make Lt. some day!
I love that scene. 😂
“You are a gonna be a general someday!”
Yes drill sergeant!
The line "He was a very loving man. He was always kissing and touching her and her sisters." has always haunted me because it implies Forrest *witnessed* the abuse and as an adult was too dim to realize what he'd seen.
If the film *has* a villain, it isn't Jenny. In fact, we never even get a clear shot of his face.
I'm not so sure. Forrest never spent much time over there. I think that Forrest just heard about the father touching Jenny from Jenny, and didn't know what it meant.
Basically any kid would not understand what was going on. It had nothing to do with Forest. Non-abused kids just don't understand that kind of abuse
If the film has a villain, it's Jenny's dad. 100%.
@@janelleg597i disagree. Children know and sense a lot more than we think they do. I for example knew about my classmate's abuse and neglect at home when i was like 7. I couldn't name it but i felt it was there.
I get the feeling that he could tell there was something wrong about it, but he didn't really know how to describe what he'd seen. And it's not like anyone would've explained it to him - it was the 50's, and people probably would've assumed he wouldn't understand.
Can we appreciate that Alan has always been very open about his emotions and fears on this show? Being vulnerable is not easy. I love people who can let them tears flow without being ashamed or feeling judged or whatever. Every time he is moved he just feels it!!! Cinema Therapy is my favourite channel on YT! You are doing great work!!! ❤
So true, well said! I think everyone shared tears with Alan ❤ and it's an amazing thing. Empathy and love are SO important nowadays.
I also want to join - such a beautiful thing is to be so opened and let us all have example to be so too.
Don't forget that you are on you tube, those are personas used in videos, not real people
The worst thing about Jenny's past, which is kinda just implied and then glossed over in the film, is that she had sisters. We never see them, and only she gets to live with Grandma.
Even as a kid watching this it was haunting to me that the "very loving" abusive father must have killed her sisters in a drunken rage before his "nap", and Jenny has just been standing at the edge of her yard/that field, in shock, until Forrest finds her.
I always wondered if she might have just stayed there and let her dad find her if Forrest hadn't gotten there when he did. She made no attempt to hide or run away until she is making him run with her.
Oh shit, as many times I've seen this movie, I never connected those dots. That would explain that scene so much more
Oh my. I never thought about what might have happened to her sisters. Maybe they were older and just ran away? But she was too young so she had to stay? Hopefully?
I always thought they had run away.
I always thought her sisters had run away, and either couldn't or wouldn't come back to that house to get her
Damn, never thought about that. I always thought they were separated and could never connect again later on. Also her Grandmas place seems save but very small and "humble".
People get upset about Forrest not knowing about little Forrest. They seem to forget that Forrest spent well over 3 years running across the country in the 80’s with no cell phones or pagers available.
THANK YOU! It baffles me that people don't seem to pick up on that. It wasn't like a quick 30-second part of the film it was a really lengthy sequence. And we don't know once he stopped running when (if ever) Jenny found out he was back home.
Yeah some of that comes from younger reactors that don't really know what the 70s and 80s were like etc.
I'm in my 40s and that never occurred to me either- but it a great point.
This lines up with my understanding that people calling Jenny Toxic are probably young and not truly understanding what went on
Well, first know that I don’t think Jenny is a villain and I understand why she wouldn’t tell Forrest about his son, but… you seem to forget that his run was followed by the media who did know his whereabouts, to the point that a group of people could actually join him. So she could have find him or, more realistically send him a letter for exemple. So yes, she could have let him know sooner. She truly made the choice to wait (which, once again, I get why).
Biggest proof in the movie that Forest is a man of honor and intelligence: he did right by Bubba and kept his word about splitting the profits of their shrimp boat 50/50.
I absolutely loved the scene where he goes to Bubba's momma's house and hands her the check for half the profits and she collapses when she sees the check amount. 🥰
@@captsparrowslady did...
did she literally collapse?
and was she okay?
@@TheInfintyithGoofballshe passed out from shock but we can see how now she is the one who is getting served by others
@@animae008 cool.
@@TheInfintyithGoofball the collapsed to her knees from shock at how much it was. She wasn't hurt, didn't have anything like a heart attack. But she grew up poor, lived poor, and got a check to become generationally wealthy. It was just something she didn't know how to process at the moment.
I've watched dozens of Cinema Therapy episodes. This one was your best. The compassion for people's inner humanity, the reminders of historical context, Alan's vulnerability about his greatest fears as a parent, the non-traditional love story that shows us Twue Wuv in a very different Robin Wright movie: It was just perfect. Thank you for your art and the beauty you both put out into the world.
You're very welcome. Thanks for watching!
I've always thought that the birth of Little Forrest was Jenny's turning point. She was almost there at the time she left Forrest's house in Greenbow, but still didn't quite believe she was worthy of love, or capable of having a healthy relationship of any kind. By the time she writes the letter that eventually brings Forrest to her, years have passed in which she has maintained a job, found friends, has rented an apartment that appears to be clean and comfortable, and is capably raising a child who is smart and loving. She has come to accept that just maybe she is the good person that Forrest has always seen. At that point, she is finally ready to let him in.
Jenny has been running away from her past all her life - it's important that her first impulse when Forrest is being abused by bullies is to tell him to "Run, Forrest, Run!" - and this becomes symbolic again once Forrest begins his long trek across America. He is running away from pain, a reaction to Jenny's refusal that was in turn caused by her pain, but eventually he goes back home again. They are finally reunited only after both of them have stopped running and are at peace with themselves. I think that's really beautiful.
What a beautiful comment
Forrest and his nurturance and love was the bedrock that turning point was founded upon. Forrest's ever-present love, despite her rejection of him, gave her just enough glimmer of self-value to survive her entire ordeal. Her mind was on Forrest constantly after she "ran away" in the cab. She was the one who didn't know what love was, until she experienced her mother's love for Little Forrest, and could reflect that back toward Forrest. Little Forrest's conception was inadvertent, as was all of Forrest's life. Forrest's love was costly for him, but it was a decision and commitment that never faltered.
Have you ever seen the waitress? A similar transformation happens when the main character has her baby. She finds the strength to heal and move forward and to leave her abuse spouse.
OR....she finally contacted Forrest because she knew she was sick/dying and knew her "emotional support friend" would step up and take care of their son. I contend that if she didn't get AIDS she may NEVER have told Forrest about his son.
Greensboro
One thing I'd say is Forrest's superpower is being present. He is super aware of the moment he's in at all times, and when there isn't anything happening he goes into standby mode.
This comment made me smile at "standby mode"
Especially in that bridge moment. He’s portrayed to be ‘not smart’ and ‘unaware of social cues’ but he’s aware to understand there is something very wrong with what Jenny said. Even if he doesn’t quite know it’s suicide, he knows it’s a trouble sign.
Movie gets points for that with me.
9:13 Alan speaks the truth. I always get annoyed when people hate on Jenny. She avoided Forrest because she cared about him. She knew she was a damaged person and didn't want to drag him into her self destructive cycle.
If she had just avoided him, people wouldn’t have hated her as much.
@@Slappys bro forgot the part where forest basically stalked her because he didn't understand that. Can't run from someone who keeps finding you
@@runespoor8917no, you forgot that almost every time they were met, it was by coincidence. She was even the one who called out to him at the rally scene. Why not just ignore him?
@@bideny2 Because she needed the validation, even if she tried to hide it. It’s completely understandable, she does like Forrest but then she feels guilty every time
I don't hate Jenny but I also don't give her a free pass to abuse the one person she has power over.
I felt bad for Jenny, she was someone that had her own issues due to abuse and Forest had his issues because he was mentally disabled. Too many people want to call everything toxic just cause there's flaws in a relationship, this is why people don't stay married, they want to find the non existent perfect partner. It's crazy anyone would think Jenny is villain.
They want the Hollywood honeymoon without the accountability, vulnerability and compromise.
She totally uses Forrest. He, as you appear to view men, is just a thing to be used.
@@jackdeniston6150 Leave the black pill dude.
@@Dairunt1non answer. Typical white knight
@@jackdeniston6150 Look she maybe does sometimes but as this video and the movie show its because of her own issues she is dealing with. Again that doesnt excuse it but its something that is understandable and not intended as malicious. She is not perfect, but she gets to a pretty good mental situation at the end and she treats him well
Jenny makes decisions like a real (traumatised) person, not a vapid, manic pixie dream girl
This
that's why most men hate her...
Everyone comes with trauma differently- your comment is kinda cruel. Are you suggesting that if people cope differently that they are vapid?
@@CoraleeneEdens OP is saying that traditionally "harmed" women are written to be perfect victims, and the rest of us real people get held to that standard because that's what the wider audience transposes onto real life within their expectations. So, when they're confronted with a more complex, gray vision of a "victim" they read her negatively.
Don't be purposefully obtuse.
@@appalachiabrauchfrau wow just as condescending as the last guy. I'm saying that there are many ways to cope with trauma. To say that this one way is the "real person" way is super limiting to people who relate to other kinds of coping seen in the media. Calling anyone a "vapid manic pixie dream girl" because you don't agree with how they cope with trauma is not only sexist but also real cruel and gross. And yes some people do relate to those character tropes so a dump on the trope is still a dump on a real person. Literally disgusting how some people choose to talk about people.
Jonathan has the wisdom of an old man you’d find in an action movie that takes place in Japan, yet I keep seeing people in the comments saying he has the face of a baby
Alan looks like a man, but cries like a baby. This is a duo made in heaven 😂
This is such a fantastic comment, haha!
LOL, love this!
Lmaooooo I agree, Jonathan also reminds me of one of my friends who has a similar looking baby face (Jonathan’s just only missing being half Mexican) 😂😂
Oh my GOD 😂
They’re your Internet dads
And apparently I need to watch some Japanese action films.
Man, that scene where she was throwing stones at the house was so heartbreaking. Everything from her unstable balance to erratic throws sells the full depth of her trauma.
@@BatAmerica I concur, and she's not afraid to be vulnerable in front of Forrest, and he just lets her air out her pain, and break down.
I love how he just sits close to her without judgment and holds her without touch or words.
@@coralfeatherstone7019”I guess sometimes there just aren’t enough rocks”
This has always been my favorite scene in the whole movie, because it finally shows us the beautiful, vulnerable Jenny that Forrest has loved for all of those years.
The scene is extremely powerful and I also love that he does demolish the house later on. He found a 'rock' big enough.
Aaaand I’m weeping. When I first saw Forrest Gump in the theater I weeped at the line “sometimes there aren’t enough rocks” and every time hearing that line since (including in this video) I still weeped. It crystallized the concept that I never knew I hadn’t been able to say until then. Sometimes there’s no resolution. Sometimes there’s no closure. Sometimes there’s nothing to fix what’s been damaged …sometimes there aren’t enough rocks.
Damnit. Weeping again.
Oh god. The implications about Jenny's father went way over my head when I was a kid.
I didn’t watch it until I was 17, so I definitely got it..
Yeah me too. It was on later rewatches that I caught it. I think the line 'jenny's father was a loving man, always kissing and touching her' is very clear but vague enough that a child would not understand it. Very smart from the screenwriter.
I watched it as a teenager. I understood a lot and I appreciated what they were trying to do. But revisiting it as an adult hits so different. This movie was phenomenal and makes my heart ache.
Same
I agree, I was in the same mindset as Forrest when I first watched it, and thought that Jenny was frightened of her neighbour's dog. We never hear what happened to her sisters either.
People miss a major point of the movie. Forest prevails because he has a loving and supportive family. Jenny flails because she had an abusive family.
This!
The only reason Jenny even survives as long as she does is because of Forrest's love and compassion.
To me, there's always, always elements of both the environment you're raised as well as personal decisions/personal responsibility. Now in the case of Jenny, I would agree that her problems lean far, far more heavily towards the former.
Thank 👏 you 👏
Support has a big impact.
No, it’s because she refused to take any accountability for the way she treated herself or others.
The big thing to keep in mind in my opinion is that social ineptitude =/= autism. Everyone in today's world is so quick to label any form of social awkwardness as autism, but it is absolutely possible for someone to just simply be both socially inept AND be intellectually disabled WITHOUT necessarily being autistic.
As a late-diagnosed autistic adult (without language or intellectual disability) I could not agree more.
So true!
Autism is not an intellectual disability. Just wanted to clarify that. We are of average or above average intelligence. Just simple accommodations and empathy from neurotypicals to survive.
@@JDMimeTHEFIRSTI don’t think she was suggesting that autism implied intellectual disability, at least that’s how I read it as a late diagnosed female. But I do see the importance of mentioning it for folks that are not more educated on autism.
The Neuropsychologist actually said that it was BECAUSE of my degree of intellect that I was able to fly under the radar, so to speak. Conversely, my brother is just as, if not more, intelligent than me, but how his autism affects him has a more profound effect on his ability to exist independently. It really can both ways-both higher intelligence and low intelligence can hamper accurate diagnosis even for professionals specifically trained in it.
@@JDMimeTHEFIRSTI wish I got that with my autism but instead I got like three comorbid intellectual disabilities that nerfed me like crazy. At least I got the r-word pass when y'all don't 😜
The Forrest and Little Forrest head tilt brakes my heart every time.
"My parents loved me, they did the best they could, and the best they could hurt me in a major way" -this hit me right in the soul, I don't usually cry over these videos, but sometimes you say just the right thing and the huge part of me that desperately needs therapy is awakened lol
Same!
Yep.
And it's so hard! If you love your parents with all of your heart but they hurt you so much trying to do their best.
This is something I only came to terms with in therapy.
Literally thought of my dad.
The one scene that always gets me is Forrest realizing he has a son.
From the sheer amount of emotion Tom Hanks puts on display to his delivery of his lines, it's just heart-wrenching to hear him ask Jenny, "Is-is he smart, or is he... [like me]?"
For the duration of the movie, Forrest is extremely aware of his own disability. He isn't entirely sure how to compensate for or overcome his own circumstances, but he *is* super cognizant of the potential harm he can bring to others, as well as how arbitrary the limits of doing something "right" or "wrong" is. He "rescues" Jenny from a topless bar when a customer harasses her, but Jenny is unhappy with how he handles it. He saves Lieutenant Dan's life, but for the longest time, Lieutenant Dan hates him for it. After intervening when Jenny's boyfriend full-on punches her in the face, Forrest is ejected from the Black Panther building. Time and time again, Forrest tries to do the right thing, but it just isn't entirely clear what the "right" thing to do is, and whether his own intervention will make things worse for people. He *knows* his own limitations and disabilities, but gosh does he try so hard to do good by others.
So imagine how incredibly dumbstruck and confused Forrest was when he met his son, only for him to ask if his son is going to go through the same pain and suffering as he went through. In a moment of absolute internal chaos, the first thing on his mind was if he was going to bring harm to yet another person.
In my mind, that scene is the perfect display of Forrest's character, and possibly the best acting Tom Hanks has ever done.
We don't even know if it's really his Son
@davidcarty7584 it's implied he is. When they sit together they end up in the same posture. Implying a physical trait he inherited from Forrest.
@@werecoth that proves nothing
@@davidcarty7584 It's a narrative tool that used show two characters being similar.
@@davidcarty7584 It's a movie, David. There's nothing to "prove".
I always took Jenny’s leaving Forrest after spending the night with him as her acting on the belief and feeling that she was still a trainwreck of a person (though obviously derailed by her dad) and while she realised Forrest would make a good husband, she felt she would not make a good wife. That she knew Forrest would be happy to be with her and take care of her for the rest of their lives, but that she didn’t feel she could treat Forrest with the same sentiment and would end up using him as a life preserver or making him collateral damage in her trainwreck. She knew Forrest deserved the best version of her and she could not be that version, but Forrest would always choose her no matter which version she was so she made that decision for him.
I also think it's because she didn't want to take advantage of someone whi didn't have the best judgement & when I first watched the movie I was SO glad it didn't take that route
I always took her leaving as her feeling guilty bc she feels like she took advantage of him.
I always read it the same way as you.
You are wrong to portray this as noble. It's self serving at best. She uses him as an emotional blanket all his life, abbandon him after any form of intimacy, didn't even tell him he has a son before YEARS go by. She didn't even respect his desires and choices. She string him along for decades before comming to him only once she has litterally no other options only to dump him with responsibilities he had no choice to take. She also, by keeping the pregnancy secret took years of necessary relations from her son. It isn't as if Forest was a violent guy, he was willing to take those responsibilities clearly. I'm NOT saying she had to stay with Forest all that time, it's the manipulative use of him that I critique.
Yes she was a victim of her father but, as a survivor of decades of violence myself, I can tell you, this is the responsibility of the abused to break the cycle of abuse. It's on us not to perpetuate harmful acts to the others around us even if we are suffering.
By the way I've been in a relationship where my ex was acting similarly to Jenny and it left me a wreck. We are 20 years passed, and I still haven't recovered fully from those abuses.
@@shorgoth Well to be fair. How could she? Movie starts with him going to visit her after he ran cross country for years. Cell phones weren't a thing then. As soon as she knew he was home, she called him.
Seeing Alan cry made me cry too. That moment was so emotional and genuine.
One of the most beautiful things about FORREST GUMP is showing these deep, devastating, heartwrenching issues - like Jenny's father and later her getting sick - through Forrest's eyes and his (potentially) not understanding the details. They don't lay it out graphically or in verbal detail. We feel what Forrest does, that even without know the intricate details, we KNOW bad stuff is happening.
If this story was told from Jenny's point of view, it would be so dark as to be nearly unwatchable. The way they tell it maintains the innocence of Forrest while still showing the darkness. And it's a masterclass in doing it.
And I love that we see him grow and understand deeper by telling the story from his POV - him letting Jenny's childhood home getting demolished is such a symbolic way of telling us that he finally got the core of Jenny, and his action is so important for her and for him as well to process the trauma.
@Bad_Wolf_Media So very well said! 💯
I was just thinking the same thing - I LOVE Jenny’s character/storyline because it’s so raw and real and well done, but seeing it primarily through Forrest’s perspective adds a great element of “show don’t tell” to it while adding some much needed optimism to the overall plot
Great comment! 💯
@@rocktheroadtowembleyHe called Jenny's father a "loving man" after the scene where she threw rocks at her house. So Forrest probably still didn't understand the core of Jenny's abuse, but he did understand that the house held terrible memories regardless.
As someone who has dated a Jenny… I needed this episode. This episode helped me to find compassion and understanding for her. I still love her. I hope she finds the healing she needs
From a Jenny, thank you, and bless you.
🤢🤮
From a random girl, thank you both, you frankly brighten my mood.
@@ska187and you're an asshole! wow!
@@ska187incel
I've always thought Jenny kept Forest at arm's length because she saw him as innocent, and because she would see being in a relationship with him would be taking advantage of him, the same way her father did to her.
Same here. She didn’t want to become her parent. She was choosing to be stronger.
@@blackangel163”She” (Jenny) didn’t want to become his parent? Lol, no. She wasn’t CAPABLE of being his parent, what she didn’t want was to come to terms with her own struggles and issues stemming from her childhood abuse, it had nothing to do with not wanting to be his “parent.” She wasn’t choosing to be “stronger,” she was continuing to run away. Not judging the character for that, but let’s not get it twisted.
I think they meant that Jenny would be taking advantage of Forrest like her father took advantage of her... As in, she didn't want to treat him like her parent treated her
@@phantom0456 She said _"her_ parent", as in, she didn't want to become like her own father.
This is a great insight!
Thank you for the honesty at 24:17. I as a father felt that generational shit😢 and Forest Gump is my favorite movie of all time.Sub earned!
I cried so hard with Alan in this video. "My greatest fears are that my kids are going to be like me." That totally crushed me, because I've never said it out loud. But it's true. And seeing my oldest fighting with anxiety as I do (and he's only 7) is just devastating. I lost my childhood for other reasons, but I hate the fact that, like me, he has to deal with things that a child simply shouldn't have to experience. But as you said, people are complex and there is always the bright side. And we are not alone. Thank you!!
Oh hey! What a coincidence, seeing you here! Glad this amazing channel gets recognition from my circle as well, I recommend it wherever I can :)
I went through the same thing. when I was pregnant with my son I was so terrified that he was going to end up with some of the mental health issues I had but not so much the diagnosis, I can handle that but a fear that he (like I did when I was younger) would want to unalive himself and that is the scariest possible thing for me.
I was reassured by everyone around me that I know what the signs and symptoms are so I know what to look for, I have an idea of coping mechanisms and other kinds of treatments & resources there are and I can guide him through it in case he does have an issue with it one day.
Also I plan on taking my medicine in front of him every single day when he's old enough to understand he can't use them (He's only two now so it's not quite safe yet) but I want to reiterate to him that it is completely and totally normal to take medication everyday because it helps me think more clearly. It will be sad to tell him sometimes I worry when there's nothing to worry about & sometimes I feel sad when there's nothing to make me feel sad but that's just how my brain works. I think in those moments we can show them that as hard as life can be, we can still get through it and find good things as we go along and heal together. I wish only the best for you and your family. You're right we're all in this together! ❤☮️😊
@@pixiebells that's my greatest fear too
Yeah I teared up a bit at that.
Dammit, Alan crying always makes me feel the tears forming.
I never saw her as a villain, but I never understood why she kept leaving him until I was directly told it was because she felt like she didn't deserve love.
By her constantly leaving good people for terrible ones she also was inflicting trauma onto those who might have actually cared for her well being.
she wanted love form the toxic men she kept messing with until she saw they were never gonna return it then went to Forrest to get worshipped and boost her ego then she goes back out looking for "fun"
@@Kenara-sd2oiwow, what a gross interpretation of her trauma.
@@Kenara-sd2oithanks for letting everybody know you’re incapable of understanding what was explained in the video, we truly do appreciate it
@@Kenara-sd2oioh you poor Summer Child. Jenny was raised believing that she was worthless and undeserving of love.
She was only ever shown love when she got naked and/or slept with a guy.
That's why that night she slept with Forrest. She knew she had hurt him and she loved him. So she did the only thing she knew she could do to make up for hurting a man. Sleep with him.
Afterwards she realized, that she basically forced herself on him (at least in her own Eyes) and did to him what her father did to her.
That's why she ran away. She didn't want to hurt/ruin him the same way she was by her father and all the men in her life.
You can't apply logic to people who suffer from cPTSD. We do irrational shit because we got ingrained into our being, that we were worthless unless we did XY. And it takes tons of therapy and years, if not decades, to get over this. IF you ever do.
"My greatest fears are that my kids are going to be like me in the ways that I don't want them to be"
bro that thought went through my head before you said it and I am sitting here crying with you.
I’m not crying, you’re crying! Oh wait we’re all crying 😭 😭
@@eksassy901we are!
I’m a new mother and this hit me so hard I’m STILL crying.
Every parent thinks this❤
Many of us get caught up in the movies construction of Forrest as the hero who survives adversity with hard grit determination and moral character and think that he should be rewarded with Jenny as a trophy when they are both just trying to survive their own unique obstacles. We all deserve love and acceptance, how we get there is complicated. Great episode.
I was Jenny for most of my life. I was neglected, SA as a kid, and even more as a teen I was taken advantage of by awful adults. I prayed to be a bird like she did when I was a kid before I ever saw this movie. I didn’t want kids, or to get married, I didn’t want long term relationships. When I met my fiance (almost 9 years together now) I was still rebellious, and hurting, he helped me heal from my trauma, and come to terms with being an adult who’s responsible for where my life goes from here, despite my past. We have two kids now, and are getting married in 2025. He’s my Forest ❤ Jenny will always have a special place in my heart, the representation of a hurt escaping woman has still yet to be done to the caliber of Jenny
Congratulations on all of the hard work you've put in to get to this point in your life. I'm a survivor of childhood trauma as well, and it can be extremely painful and difficult to heal. And double congratulations on your family and upcoming wedding!
🤗
Congratulations. I'm happy for y'all.
@@roftherealm3418 awe double thank you so much ☺️ it’s hard to feel accomplished about it, when I feel like all I did was survive, but goddamn it was hard to keep going sometimes.. I’m glad I did though, I meet cool people like you and life feels worth it again, I hope you keep going too, it’s hard, but it’s worth it to see the rainbows on the other side of the hill ❤️
@@bamacopeland4372 thank you 🙏 😊
“My greatest fears are that my kids are going to be like me, in the ways I don’t want them to be”
I didn’t know this was me until you said the words.
Then there’s those like myself who were/are scared of not only having my kids be me, but myself becoming my father.
That one hurt ngl
In modern family there is a great line by Jay.
It was something along the lines. "You love it when you see in your kid your greatest trates, but you dread when you see your greatest flaws."
I always thought she told Forrest he didn't know what love was because she was projecting. She *doesn't* know what love is. And didn't until she had her child and began working on herself for him. I love that they got together when it was completely right for them to do so, regardless of how little time they had after. 💜
That makes a lot of sense.
It could also be a little bit of both
It's the same when she tells him "You don't want to marry me." She's projecting her doubt that anyone would want to marry her, and the fact that she doesn't feel Forrest should want to marry her... she'll just ruin his innocence. A lot of Jenny's scenes/lines are her projecting her own insecurity onto Forrest. This could have been an episode about projection, instead of a "toxic or not"... though I am glad that they addressed all the hate against her and declared it wrong.
I kind of see the hatred of Jenny as being similar to the hatred of Skyler in Breaking Bad. I'm sure there's a not-insignificant amount of misogyny involved in the criteria of these judgments. People who hate female characters anytime they don't just bow down to their man's needs and wishes, but actually have agency of their own... or just respond to trauma like a human being, instead of like the resilient perfect male hero character who remains unfazed and rises to the challenge no matter what. Walter White is a genius and Forrest is "not a smart man", so it happens in opposite ways, but they both are very unrealistic male fantasy type characters who just keep miraculously winning no matter what. Meanwhile, Jenny/Skylar is weighing the awesome man down and not just hanging off his arm, being his trophy wife, or doing his bidding, like they believe she should. THAT is why they believe they're the "real villains".
I think not so much projecting, as having a fundamentally flawed understanding of what love is herself. But she fully *thinks* she knows what love is, so she's not projecting. She's just wrong :D
What I love about the scene where Jenny introduces Forrest to his son is how well she reads his feelings without him articulating them. She really has come to understand him and acts instantly to protect him. It shows her growth.
When Jenny said, "You think I could fly off this bridge?" and Forest immediately understood the implications, that showed that he was actually more intelligent than he was otherwise portrayed to be in the movie.
Same when, although Forest originally described Jenny's dad as being a very "loving" man, he still grasped the situation enough to understand why Jenny was so angry when she threw rocks at her childhood home. Especially since people didn't talk about that sort of thing in those days.
Exactly!
I cried at both of those scenes.
Huh, I read that as him NOT properly understanding implications but still wanting to help and THAT being the strength of his character.
For the bridge example, he outright asks for clarification, he almost surely doesn't know what she's considering (i.e. jumping and dying).
But he does understand is that she's suffering and upset, whether from her tone or how she compares the current moment to a past moment of distress (i.e. wishing to be a bird when running from her father, which Forrest can compare to when he'd ran from bullies).
@@finaldusk1821 Notice the tone of voice he uses when he asks for that clarification, though. Almost like, "You better not be implying what I think you're implying."
@@finaldusk1821 There is a slight panic in his eyes, as his gaze looks up from where her shoe kinda pops off of her heel, after she steps up onto part of the ledge of the bridge, and he steps toward her, in case he might need to act. When he asks her that, I think it's fear of what exactly she is implying. So, he knows what she's thinking. Forrest may not have the IQ, but he DEFINITELY has the EQ.
I think Jenny was projecting when she said Forrest didn’t know what love is. People like Jenny do deserve compassion. It’s also true that if you let people in this kind of spiral too close to you, they can burn you beyond recognition.
It took her having a child to learn what love actually is. It was wonderful to see that arc. Too many people have kids and continue to self destruct.
I wouldn’t say Jenny is the villain, but I think it is a clear picture of how you can be your own worst enemy.
Never play captain save a ho3, you will get torched
You often don't learn until it's too late that your brain will naturally pattern your own parenting on what you saw growing up. It takes sustained, intentional effort to undo the toxic or abusive patterns and replace them with the right ones for your own kids.
So anyone you know or met who grew up wrong and turned it around? They did it on purpose and it was hard.
I.e. how hurt people can (unwittingly sometimes) weaponize your empathy and do you considerable harm.
Forrest never wanted anything and if you want to have nothing, love a severly damaged person... gets you there every time.
@@Raintigress I still work on that everyday. It’s incredibly hard, and I pray about it all the time. I take comfort that I’m way better than my parents, and I hope that means my kids will be even better than me.
@@ebadd3468 9 times out of 10, I absolutely agree with you. You can never save someone, and you can’t even HELP save them if they aren’t ready for it. Helping when someone is ready, if you’re strong enough, is truly amazing to see. But, don’t even try if you don’t have the stomach for it, and the person hasn’t asked for help. You’ll just destroy yourself.
Saying that Jenny always thought of Forrest as a child made me think, what if her sleeping with Forrest made her feel like she just did to Forrest what her father did to her? That would have been absolutely soul-crushing and the reason she stayed away for so many years, dealing with the guilt of what she thought she did.
I would think that Jenny thought of Forrest as a child in a man's body right until that night when he says he knows what love is. This is when she may see him as a man: a mentally stunted one, but a man nonetheless. And that's why she sleeps with him. Before then, she parades around with other men she sleeps with, not thinking twice of how it makes him feel, cause she things him a child who doesn't know anything about love, even less physical love. He's the nice little boy next door who has a childish crush on her.
I think it can easily be both - that she immediately second-guesses her changed perception of him and is horrified. And only as she finally settles down, and meets him again, she realises that no, that changed perception of him was the correct impulse.
I think this is spot on. I'm a survivor of SA and the (irrational) fear of becoming a perpetrator myself is unreal
I can see it. She thought she'd become no better than him.
This is exactly how I always read it - that she was horrified and ashamed bc she felt she had taken advantage of someone who she thought of as a child (even if in an adult's body) - and that she was just as bad as her father who took advantage of her when she was a child. And that she ran because of how much that thought fucked her up :(
I hadn't watched the (full) movie until a few years ago, but I was aware of the discourse and the vitriol towards Jenny's character and wanted to watch it for myself to make up my own mind...and I just could not and still can't understand the level of bile people spew about her. She was a deeply traumatized and broken character who made decisions that were realistic for someone who had that kind of trauma (I've known a fair amount of women, some in my own family, who have gone through what she went through and it's very much true to life).
Did Jenny make bad decisions that were both self destructive and hurtful to those around her? Absolutely. But it's realistic. Broken people who are traumatized, especially ones who don't have access to the mental help they need, are not generally known for making the best or most healthy decisions. Trauma is a hell of a thing and it takes a lot of time and work to heal what's been broken inside you...sometimes it takes a lifetime, and even then, it can still have lingering effects bc it was so major, that it changed you irrevocably.
And that's not even getting into the time period either! Before therapy, traumatized people just had to do whatever they could to survive and just live with what happened - alcoholism & substance abuse was (& arguably still is) common for a reason - people will take whatever avenue they have access to, in order to numb the unbearable pain they're feeling...and before mental health services became a thing at all (& the lack of widespread accessibility is STILL a problem even today!), people's options for surviving & trying to cope the best they could with trauma were pretty darn limited.
And please note that this isn't an attempt to excuse bad behavior, or hurting others because you're hurt. People are still 100% accountable for how they treat others and are responsible for their own healing.
But I do think all this is important and is relevant context. Jenny is not an evil character or a villain. She's just a realistic portrayal of a deeply flawed, broken, and traumatized individual with all of the messiness, imperfections, and nuance that comes along with that.
And I think that what people struggle with is that imperfection and nuance. They want an easy black and white character who's either all "Good" or all "Bad" with no room for the gray area in between that real human beings fall into...and that's just not realistic because unfortunately life isn't that simple...and while I can understand why some people would prefer that simplicity in the media/stories they consume, not every storyteller is going to want to go that route...some want to portray something that is more realistic in all it's messiness and complications.
22:38 I’ll never have a dry eye when Forrest’s first concern for his son is if he inherited his low IQ. Heartbreaking 💔
Jenny has the most character growth in the movie. From an abused child to an abused adult, to contemplating suicide, to somehow recovering from that as a helpful, loving, supportive mom..
@@kimberlyrichardson5943 I'm don't know that I agree with the "child is something special" narrative.. I wouldn't agree with your view of Child Jenny, I might even strongly disagree actually. (pulling from my own childhood experiences)
I think the feelings between Forrest and Jenny became complicated because where they were once just good friends.. Forrest starts portraying a different type of romantic and arguably even possessive (unhealthy) love for her. This would likely be a massive trigger for her, and honestly had he behaved this way as a Child.. they may have never developed a friendship to begin with.
Having said all of that..
"Even in the end, I don't believe Jenny accepted being worthy of his love"
I can see that as basically being a FACT.. not only from my own experiences, but others I know who have been thru similar things.. When you spend nearly 40 years hating yourself and telling yourself you aren't worthy of love, and suicidal.. that doesn't just go away.. in a couple of years of the BEST therapy you can find. It becomes a lifelong struggle and moments where those feelings return.. even after years of not feeling that way.
If that isn't true, it should be, it's very accurate to the reality we know for many CSA survivors.
I think to the novelization of Return of the Jedi. As Vader is dying, we get his POV in that novel. He thinks about how he got this form and about his wife. He thinks about Luke and how Luke was good...and Luke was a part of him. So there must be good in him as well, somehow. In seeing the good in his son, he can finally start to see it in himself. Because his son is half him.
I wonder if it's a similar thing with Jenny. She spent her life thinking she's this worthless, broken thing and then she had this beautiful child. This child who knows nothing except that he loves his mother. Yeah, his father was Forrest Gump but he came from her. He was quite physically a part of her for the pregnancy. He's half her. And maybe, just maybe, if she can help create something so pure and beautiful that this must exist within her as well. I think that child saved her life by simply existing.
The fact that Jenny eventually ends up recovering and in an overall good place is incredibly admirable and she doesn't get nearly enough credit for it. I'm very anti prequels, sequels, reboots and remakes but I think Jenny's story would be an incredible thing to explore and she deserves her own movie
@@valalava1 I genuinely don't think you could make that movie in mainstream hollywood. It would be *way* too dark for them. There are people off the beaten path that could do it, but there's no way they could get their hands on the IP.
@@valalava1 Agreed.
Forrest Gump is the sweetest character that has ever been written. Unknowingly, he was just what both Jenny and lieutenant Dan needed. Not because he was their savior, but because he was the one person that showed them love and respect for the first time. If you ever make an episode about Forrest relationship with lieutenant Dan I'll be first in line to appreciate it. Thanks for this beautiful video ❤
yes I would love to see them talk about Forrest and Dan
Oh please do a Lieutenant Dan episode!!! I love him, & his interactions with Forrest
"I guess he didn't want to be called crippled, like I didn't want to be called stupid" shows how much Forrest cares for Dan
(Also look up Gary Sinise; that man is awesome)
Only his mom and Bubba returned his love as freely as it was given. That's all I have to say about that.
@@kennethhumphries2930 Louise: HELLO!!!
in the book the movie is based on he is kind of an AH and also a racist
I think I always hated Jenny because I projected my own shit onto her. Because it took her so long to heal, makes me afraid and angry that it will take me that long to heal because I can’t let go of some of my own stuff.
And I’m sure that’s a better reason why people see her as toxic, at least I know that’s how I felt
@@martinolivares1567 Ditto, I never viewed Jenny as a villain, and understood that she was going through some dark trauma of her own. I've also gone through periods of self loathing, where I feel that I'm not enough for anyone around me.
Getting there does take time. A lot of time. There's no goal post here. Nothing saying you can't overcome the trials and tribulations of childhood trauma on your time. This is your journey and you can get to the post Jenny healing. Peace friend. ❤
I think watching this video is what it took for me to realize that too
I completely agree! When I was still in the thick of my family abuse, I hated her. She was weak. After trauma therapy she ‘suddenly’ became relatable, and this movie became a lot better. I was the broken piece in that. Great observation.
It finally made me not be that upset at myself, when i realized all i had to focus on was that day. And the next, just that day. And so one, and so on, and so on. Sometimes it shocks me how long it's been.
I hope you come through each day loving yourself so much, you can get through any kind of Jenny situation faster than lightening and with the strength of a phoenix.
It's so truly sad to see how many people don't understand Jenny is a CSA survivor and all that it entails; it's truly a complete lifelong severing of one's psyche and love map/attachments.
Maybe growing up with my mother allows me to see complexities others can't, because I can see the deep psychological reasonings of why Jenny did/said everything. How she saw herself in the eyes of men, how real love was terrifying to her, how drugs were an escape, and then the deep pain within her soul that Forrest never could truly grasp.
It's likely something no one will ever grasp unless you are a CSA victim, or know one.
I always thought that Jenny was a great litmus test on empathy, especially on men. Cause if you just think of her as a villain, you're not someone who should be trusted around traumatized people. I'm so happy this episode exists
I actually sort of agree, I never agreed with Jenny or her actions but I always empathized with her and her trauma. But I’m not gonna lie, part of my family are Jenny’s and I’m basically their Forrest, as in I’ve been always tried to be understanding and empathetic throughout their trauma and it hurt me as a result. It’s a really tough line to walk, regardless of who you’re referring to, but I wouldn’t have had it any other way.
I agree! See her mistakes and hold her to them, but understand why she made them.
As a “Jenny” myself, I’d say to stay way clear.
Serial killers also have a severely traumatic childhood. Most people have at least some trauma in their childhood. When you’re an adult, you still make your decisions. I empathize with child Jenny, less so with adult Jenny. I empathize with child John Wayne Gacy, but not adult John Wayne Gacy. There can never be accountability if you just blame everything on your childhood.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!
Kid Jenny & Forrest endured extreme isolation in childhood, Forrest being bullied & stigmatized, and Jenny enduring repeated abuses. They had each other as children and that was it.
The reason adult Forrest was able to thrive was because eventually he had a healthy positive community that loved him… and most of it was pure luck. Jenny remained lonely & isolated most of her life, with the exception of empty sexual encounters.
It is wonderful that Forrest loved Jenny unconditionally, but let’s be honest, one person love is not always enough to undo all the trauma & hurt from multiple people. I’m happy this movie steered away from the romantic movie trope that “love is all you need”
It is almost impossible to accept love from others before you learn to accept and love yourself.
I agree. His mom was not that supportive. She was being a mom, but didn’t accept he was different and didn’t fight for him to be accommodated. She didn’t try to educate him better or help him. He was bullied and traumatized as well. He had to run fast because older kids beat him. That’s want supportive. It’s more to do with him being a man and lucky enough to stumble through some times. She’s a woman and the world isn’t friendly to us. We are blamed for people abusing us. We are blamed for enjoying sex. We are blamed for not being married. Women get paid less. Women couldn’t have credit cards until 1975. The reason he thrived is because he’s a white man. And it was easier for white men (still is).
@@Gadeberg90NOT true. You can actually love others and not love yourself. But many people love themselves and not others (these are called sociopaths /narcissists).
@@JDMimeTHEFIRST Yep you can LOVE others. What the other person was saying is they can't let themselves BE loved by others, & that's so different. It's like the person who always helps everybody, but when they need help, will do everything BUT ask for it. I know because in some ways that's still me. I work on myself a lot but it's still so hard to ask for help from people
@@JDMimeTHEFIRSTehm, regarding the mother - I am sure you did forget that she actually slept with the principal to have Forrest admitted to school and give him at least some chance? I think this really was the best she could do, those are the fifties not 2010s, and rural Alabama, and her without a husband. She also gave him this line about ' stupid is who stupid does' and a feeling that for her he was right as he was - I don't really know what you mean, I think she was portraied as a loving mother, and he knew so...
I loved Jenny and, sadly, related to her so much, even as a child. I remember that watching this movie filled me with hope for my own future: If Jenny, with all her mistakes and moments she’s not proud of, could be happy, than I, too, can achieve it
I hope you're doing well in life right now ❤
I hope that you're keeping well emotionally now. You are strong, and everyone is worth more than their pasts.
hope you’re doing better!
There's a lot of us out here, figuring it out and healing, hopefully. Much empathy to you.
I felt exactly the same way. My dad had a bunch of VHS tapes or movies he recorded off TV and Forest Gump was one of them. I must have watched it literally hundreds of times during school holidays at his place.
I always related to Jenny, even when I was too young to understand why.
One of the the things I love about Tom Hanks' performance is that you can see at several points that he simply doesn't know how to react. He's processing new information and he needs a moment to understand what other people just intuitively know. When Jenny throws her shoes and then rocks, it genuinely startles him. Several times, he looks like he wants to intervene but he doesn't know what to do so he waits. Even when Jenny collapses onto the soil he doesn't know what to say or what to do so he just sits quietly and waits. He doesn't say anything, he doesn't try to hold her. He just sits nearby and waits, like a gentle presence. He actually models really good behavior for how to comfort someone who needs to process their emotions. He didn't race in to rescue her from them. He just sat quietly and waited until she was ready to talk to him.
I yelled "YAY!" When I saw this. No villains, no bad guys, just a kind man and a woman who survived to much. I love this movie so much. Thank you for doing it.
This was my first good special needs rep as an Autistic person. It helped me so much to know I'm not useless, and neither are 0eople in my comunity.
Like to think Jenny's old man is the villian.
@@sameaston9587 a person doing evil things, sure. Absolutely. But not a villain. At least - not in the mustache-twirling trope people seem to crave in a story.
There's this desire to paint a character (and by extension, people in our lives) as simply "evil" or "bad." It doesn't serve us well. I mean - don't get me wrong. A simple story with heroes and villains and sports (in the Princess Bride sense) without moral implications is fun and I like fun. But when a story isn't that - why try so hard to simplify it? Life isn't that simple. Trying to make it that simple blinds us to better lives through compassion or blind faith to people who manipulate us. The wonder of this story is that it offers a simple narrative view to a complex world where that juxtaposition highlights that complexity. It offers us a chance to reflect on the complexity in our own lives.
@@sameaston9587 Jenny isn't the villain, I agree, it was her dad, and her horrible life circumstances which moulded her into the person she was. I always felt sorry for her, even if she treated Forrest horribly at times.
@@arandomnamegoeshere He sexually abused his daughters. He's the villain.
Well Forrest isn’t really good rep because it plays into the stereotype of having to be really good at something to make up for it.
So it’s the exact opposite of what you think.
As a family therapist working with chemically dependent, mentally ill clients I have used this movie for discussions of healthy family and personal relationships. Glad to see you guys "back me up."
I’ve never rewatched Forest Gump as an adult but when I was a child my mother would always say “Jenny trapped Forest and took advantage of him.” So I just assumed that was true. After watching this video, I realize that Jenny was a very damaged traumatized person that was not capable of being in a relationship with Forest for various reasons all having to do with her healing process.
Now knowing my mom was a narcissistic physical and emotional abuser as an adult, it comes off as belittlement of Forest and projection of her own insecurities so thanks for this episode, it’s nice to see it reframed and feel vindicated.
Yet she was not so damaged to run to him for help at every instance she needed it.
Yea she was traumatized but she also definirely took advantage of his innocence
My dad told me when I was little that Understanding that Jenny probably died of AIDS or an STD is one of the most powerful moments in the film. That she kept trying to run away from her problems. But it just got her sick living that lifestyle. That she knew better she was just Afraid and let fear run her life until she died and how it was so sad to see someone with so much potential fade away due to bad choices.
I've always seen this story as the redemption of Jenny, how Forrest's deep love was patiently present, but also how it took Jenny a long time to come to grips with her trauma and finally accept the process of healing. I've never known someone as hurt as Jenny was, but I've know a few who had similar traumas and how hard it is to come to loving oneself. I can't begin to fathom her pain but to see that transformation is the reason I keep coming back to this film.
I think their relationship isn’t perfect but it’s very human
I've never thought of Jenny as the villain of the film, and I was surprised to hear that she had been labeled that by some. To me, Jenny only ever did her best, which wasn't great, but it was, at different stages of her recovery, literally the best she could do. I know several "real" people like her, and while I would never be in a relationship with them, I have great compassion for them. Thank you for covering this wonderful film! I think you guys would have a lot to say about the relationships and traumas in these films:
In Her Shoes
The Last Samurai
Shall We Dance
P.S. I Love You
About a Boy
Keep up the awesome work!
Yeah, it is heartbreaking how incels carry run around the Internet pushing Jenny's character to be viewed as some kind of monster... Truly scary that these people exist. :(
Disagree, but not for the reasons you may assume. The reason nobody saw her as a villain, is because the movie wrote her that way, and even says so, therefore we're conditioned to, despite the fact the most of Jenny's actions are pretty wrong.
Not sure if they're the best comparison, but look at characters like Mildred Rogers from Of Human Bondage (1934) and Ginger McKenna from Casino (1995), who both in their movies have received a similar animosity from audiences. But let me tell you this as someone who seen both movies, I GUARANTEE that Mildred and Ginger don’t receive close to the level of hatred that Jenny does. As for why, it’s probably because both movies made it pretty clear that while we see why people like Mildred and Ginger are the way they are, and we EMPATHIZE with them (Not SYMPATHIZE, take note of that...), it doesn’t change the things they have done throughout their respective stories. When Phillip (Of Human Bondage) and Ace (Casino) fall in love with these ladies, it's aware that both of them don't understand that this isn’t what love is. It even helps that both movies end with the male leads seeing that continuing to give Mildred and Ginger anything to make them happy, is not helping or making them change and they need to start taking control of their life without them, otherwise it can lead to consequences, which they themselves will be forced to blame for.
So both movies show that this kind of romance is extremely toxic. Whereas in Forrest Gump, because Forrest was doing quite well without Jenny, yet still continued to bring her up, it comes as very rich of Jenny, who's reached her lowest point, to turn back to Forrest even though she continues to rebuff him, even after they have sex, despite rejecting his proposal, and then leaving him. But when Mildred or Ginger did something similar to that, everyone knows that this is wrong.
I've been telling them to do About a boy for years but they haven't yet. I love that movie, would love to have it on the show. It's packed with emotion. ❤
@@osmanyousif7849 But just because someone is very flawed and dose things that are wrong or not entirley right dosn't make that person a villain or even an antagonist. In my opinion the lable is compeltely wrong at all for a film like Forest Gump. In my opinion there is no Villain. Also why is Jenny labled the Villain when Leutenant Dan lashs out at Forest while dealing with his PTST and is not a nice person at that point in general? Why is he judged differently?
Sadly, this seems to be a reoccuring thing I'm seeing with people and them reacting to characters dealing with trauma (and it also reflects the way they respond to irl peopke with trauma). Their understanding and support is VERY conditional.
If a character or person responds in a very "Hollywood," "heroic" way, or is mainly depressive, crying a lot and talking a lot about how hurt they feel, people respond positively and empathetically. Problem is, most actual people, and therefore most characters meant to be realistic, do not actual act or repond to traumas like that.
If they actually respond like real people often do, developing unhealthy coping mechanisms, lashing out, do self-harming and/or self-destructive behaviors, etc., people react very negatively to it. They say that they're being "too messy," or "selfish"/"assholish," are "just using [their] pain as an excuse to hurt others." If, god forbid (and seemingly, especially, if you are a woman or a part of the queer community), you don't react perfectly, in a very neat, non-"messy" way, you are a "bad person" for having this trauma that you have to deal with, now with a smaller support base.
And even more sadly, this seems to go double for those who have to deal with ongoing sexual abuse, because it's such a dark subject, that others often don't seem to know how to handle it.
I love how Forest never tries to fix the problem. So many men cannot see someone in pain, so they try to help by fixing the situation but there is no way to fix what Jenny went through. He simply exists by her side so she won't feel alone, and I wish more people could do this for people who are struggling. Sometimes just sitting with someone, with no expectations including to make the problem go away, genuinely helps.
Correction: So many *people* cannot see someone in pain
Thank you for being so vulnerable and talking about fears that we all get in us. We don't want other people to suffer what we've been through especially our kids or future kids. We don't want the same things happening so we work on ourselves to heal and be more loving. I started to watch this channel couple days ago and I've been watching a lot now. I take notes on what you both share because it helps me to articulate some stuff that I want to experience and some stuff that I don't want to go through. It's very insightful and helpful. Also you guys have a great sense of humor and I love that. So the whole experience of coming here watching another video, crying because of Forrest Gump movie again and then witnessing such a vulnerable commentary is what Internet was made for. Thank you for both helpful comments and also putting smile on my face! You are great! ♥
also pretty sure there's important time/cultural factors to consider when baby jenny called baby gump stupid. i agree that she's being curious and trying to figure out who he is as a person, but also i think stupid carried a different meaning and context at that time.
Also, regardless of the time it takes place in, a child at the age of whatever jenny was in this stage of the movie simply does not have either the knowledge or the required mental capacity to understand intellectual disability or neurodivergent behavior and characteristics.
Yes, children call each other stupid. Adults do too, often without overt bad intent. Ignorance should be forgiven, but not WILLFUL ignorance. Adults SHOULD know better because of their education and the availability of information, especially in an online age.
(Which is why religious zealouts , racists, sexists, transphobes, holocaust deniers, conservatives in general to be honest, have absolutely no excuse to be as ignorant as they are. They have all the information they would ever want at the tip of their fingers, they just REFUSE to use it because it confronts them with their deepest fear: difference, either in identity or opinion. I will stand by that point till the day I die.)
How many times have you called an adult stupid? I bet plenty of times. If we were to do a deep dive, a fundamental philosophical deconstruction of that term and the conditions to which it applies, we would always come to the conclusion that a "stupid" person has some sort of neurodivergent brain. We are all fundamentally different, and so on a foundational level, there is no "normal" brain.
The more we learn of the brain, the more details we get, and the harder it is for us to call a person "stupid" without touching on a form of mental disability. Or rather, what constitutes as a "mental disability" becomes broader and broader as time goes on, because our understanding of how the brain works also becomes broader and broader.
I will continue calling people stupid, regardless of their mental disability. Forrest Gump IS stupid. He is objectively not intelligent, I don't care whether he is neurodivergent. Down Syndrome patients are also objectively more stupid than an average adult. Of course, I personally say this without an intent to insult, it's just a clear observation.
Unfortunately, "stupid" ALSO carries with it the connotation of being "lesser", of being "unworthy" of being "useless". Certainly a person CAN be those things in certain areas, but nobody is inherently and fundamentally "lesser", "unworthy" or "useless". We are those things only in a relative sense to a task at hand, never as an essence.
Jenny didn't mean to insult Forrest here, though she might want to, kids being kids, what matters is that she was genuinely curious as to whether Forrest really was THIS dense. And yes, he was, plain and simple. Doesn't matter what fictional and very convenient (to the story) savant syndrome he has.
Ultimately, the problem with people taking "issue" with confrontational language in the way social media often portrays, is that people online often refuse to take perspective, calm down, and look at things fundamentally and questioning things philosophically. Black and white worldviews are easier to propagate and get angry about. And the internet LOVES to be angry for about 5 minutes before moving on to the next petty drama. "Forrest Gump is ablist" is a garbage take, because garbage takes are edgy and the internet loves edgelords and propagates them like the spawn of a demon. The only cure for that is wilfully doing research, seeing things from other perspectives, and accepting the fact that the majority of people are not evil. I know. A truly shocking fact. Jenny can call Forrest Stupid. He IS.
True
Consider that scene in the context of the previous scene, the conversation between Forrest's mother and his doctor, which they both know he can overhear. Jenny is an honest and curious child; the society that she and Forrest live in is cruel.
She's also a kid. I don't know if she knew what other way to ask Forest about his mental capabilities.
@@t.v.rockwell4504I admire that she was able to ask those questions without an adult saying “you can’t ask those questions!”
Too many people use the word "toxic" for anything negative. Things can be imperfect. Poor Jenny had the WORST attachments figures in the WORLD, but could still deeply love and connect with Forrest. Man I felt for this character.
If your actions repeatedly hurt the people around you (including yourself) you are a toxic person. We just had the benefit of seeing Jenny's past trauma, thus have more empathy for her. However, make no mistakes. She repeatedly hurt Forrest. And his disability makes her actions even worse, as there was a big power unbalance in that relationship, which she seemed to use likely due to her own trauma. Anyone not seeing Jenny as a toxic person is not being honest. She may not have been intentionally cruel. However, she recklessly left a wake of misery for Forrest, who throughout everything, had an undying loyalty toward her. And one could argue that *trigger warning* what she did to Forrest was ironically, in some small way, similar to what her father did to her. Except that she used an innocent to feed off of emotionally instead of sexually. And even then, there was that one night. Her relationship with Forrest almost comes off as predatory. Even her marriage to Forrest seems manipulative. She didn't even approach him until she realized that she was dying and needed someone to care for her and her child after she was gone. Jenny is a tragic character, but she's not innocent. They say that hurt people hurt people and beyond Forrest, the person Jenny hurt the most was Jenny.
This movie makes me cry so much. Tom Hanks is such an incredible actor. And I was WAITING to see you guys do this movie.
Ditto. Me tooooo. Crying my eyes out, but loving it.
Oh me too! The end destroys me every single time.
I remember watching this movie and thinking it was great but it wasn't memorable for me. Than I heard the internet saying Jenny being toxic it & believed it from what little I remembered. Watching this video has completely changed my opinion on the movie.
I definitely get where Jenny is coming from since personally don't like myself (can't even remember the last time I've felt Liking myself in my 31 yrs) and that feeling sucks. Man, I completely teared up hearing Alan talking about how he was afraid that his children would inherited his bad traits because those are my exact feels right now and I'm scared shitless to have have kids.
Watching this and writing this comment really resolved my desire to change that about myself. Thanks Jono, Alan, & the rest of crew of CinemaTherapy. Didn't know I needed this.
*The Napalm was toxic*
"The VA has determined your injuries are not service connected"
The VA is toxic lol
The VA has determined your injury/illness is service connected, and rated at 0%
🤣 My husband and I have a running joke where whenever one of us is doing something stupid, we say "You better make sure that can count as 'service related.'"
Pretty much fits the check list at 💯 % ✔️
Found a veteran.
The VA "we are sorry to inform you that we had to cancel your appointment."
VA Doctor "I need you to make an appointment to come see me"
The way I have always seen Jenny from Forrest Gump is that she could have gone the fairy tale route just like every other love story from the 90s and given the audience the fuzzies, but her story is a more true story that no matter how good a man is, he can't fix you.
Jenny's Father is the Villain of the Movie
Jenny is simply a representation of "Hurt people, hurt people"
This movie is basically about the importance of Therapy
I don’t disagree with what you just said. I also find myself wondering if the grace that people are willing to extend to Jenny would also be offered to her father if they discovered that he’d been abused as a child. Would he still be the villain? I think that it’s fair to ask, at what point are adults responsible for the pain that their actions cause? If she continuously hurts and uses an innocent soul like Forrest, why isn’t she a villain? Like I said, I don’t disagree with you. I also see where the people who dislike her are coming from. I don’t think that it’s as simple as saying F you to those folks.
@@TheSilverJediYou compared a woman making poor life choices and not wanting a relationship with a decent person to a man that sa's his own children. Yes. He is the villain no matter what his childhood is like. He knows right from wrong. She is not at all comparable to him simply for being a person who doesn't make all the right choices and feels bad for Forrest while being his only friend through childhood, but thinking herself unworthy of his protection and love when they grow up, making your entire point fallacious at best. I suggest watching the video again and getting over the "F you" in order to listen to everything else that was said. It's a shame that people want to vilify her, but can't even really say how she "hurt" people while comparing rejection to pedophilia. Geez. Empathy really lacks in some people...
@@Nikybeez Gotcha. Some people are responsible for the hurtful things that they do to others as adults and other people aren’t responsible. If one is on the receiving end of the pain, how can they determine whether or not to hold the one hurting them responsible? How does someone observing the behavior of people who hurt others decide whether or not they’re bad people?
I personally believe that Jenny’s father was evil and deserved whatever punishment he could possibly receive. Absolutely he was a villain. The question that I find interesting is, knowing Jenny’s past as a victim of childhood abuse, how much responsibility does she have for not taking her understandable pain out on others? Is it possible to have empathy for her and still condemn her misbehavior. It’s a challenging thing to consider.
"Hurt people hurt people" is a fact of life, not an excuse. Flip the genders on their relationship and imagine an emotionally broken man leaving a mentally ill woman to raise their child. It's not good.
@@TheSilverJediSympathy and empathy are different concepts. Jenny is sympathetic, but her actions are still very condemnable. Jenny gets overblown hate, but I think most of the criticisms come from Consequentialists like me, who believe that morality is better judged by the consequences of actions than by intentions. Jenny's decision hurt Forrest, and was therefore wrong.
Something I love about Tom Hank's performance is that Forrest often has trouble finding words to express himself. But he communicates his thoughts (or that he is thinking) with his eyes. He gets very still and by following his eyes, you can see exactly what information Forrest is processing. Maybe the best example is when he looks at Jenny, then Little Forrest, then Jenny, then Little Forest. It's so clear what he's thinking. He wants desperately to talk to little Forrest but he has no idea how to ask or if that's something it's even appropriate for him to do. Such brilliant acting.
Thank you VERY much for this video! Even as a child it was clear to me that Jenny was a victim of sexual abuse growing up in an America where such a topic was unknown or taboo. Yes, she hurt Forrest with her behaviour. Yes, Forrest deserved better. And so did Jenny. Their story is of 2 fundamentally good people trying to get together but mutually hurting and repelling each other over their respective issues.
Alas, it’s easier to cast Jenny as the villain, or say that as an adult she’s ultimately in control of her actions. Its attitudes like these coupled with a lack of therapy that keeps abuse victims silent.
Thank you sm for reacting to this movie and about Jenny, specifically. I remember there was a moment in my AP Psych class in high school where the first week of school, we had ice breaker questions in our groups that the teacher placed us in, and one of the questions asked what our favorite movie was. I responded with LOTR and Forrest Gump and my groupmates were so shocked that I could love that movie with Jenny being annoying and a b*tch to Forrest and I responded with, "your response to a fictional character's trauma tells me more about who YOU are than what I know about Jenny" and that shut them up quickly. Imo, Jenny was that character that made me understand how to empathize with people that were hurting and in agony and I still remember feeling so sad for her when I first watched it as a 6 year old. No one will ever gaslight me into thinking that Jenny is the villain of the movie and I'm so glad I'm not alone ❤
Although Forrest had a right to know he had become a father much sooner, remember that he went running for three years, so Jenny had no way of reaching him for those years.
24:12 to 24:22 completely shattered me. I’m not a parent yet, but in the near future I probably will be. And that is exactly how I feel. I struggle with anxiety and depression and overthinking and being too emotional and everything in between. But when I moved in with my fiancé, I made a promise not only to him but to myself. I was going to go to therapy, go on medication if I have to, confront my personal trauma, do active mental work/retrospection on why I am the way I am, and actively work on managing and/or fixing it. I have been doing this for sometime now and I have improved. But I’m terrified that when the time comes for me to have kids, I won’t have my issues under control enough so I don’t transfer it onto them. Thank you Alan for being vulnerable, honest, and emotional for us once again. It truly helps to know that there are other people out there who can really understand the things we go through!
The point of the movie is that parents words and attitudes towards their children affect them for the rest of their lives.
Forrest’s mom told him that his disability doesn’t limit him, and treated him as normal.
Jenny’s father told her she was a whore and treated her like one.
I look at Jenny sleeping with Forrest and then leaving the next morning a little differently. I think that was the first time Jenny actually felt a true emotional tie while having sex with someone, and it surprised and confused her. Up until that point, sex had always been linked with pain for her. Either physical pain (her father, her abusive boyfriends, the abusive one night stands) or emotional pain (sex = escapism). This was the first time she felt something else, and it scared her, and also probably left her feeling a little icky, like she had unintentionally used Forrest in the way she was accustomed to being used by others. She left because she knew she was still messed up mentally and emotionally, she couldn't be a good partner for Forrest in that state and didn't want to be unfair to him.
I think this is a great take: she emotionally connected and since that was unfamiliar, that scared her. When I was a teenager, I probably thought “why did she make love with him and then just leave him? I’m so confused didn’t she go to his room” So that feels like that question has finally been answered & in a way, that actually makes this a really important scene… the moment she finally has a healthy sexual relationship & that this is what she has been missing.
When Jenny was self destructing she always told Forrest to go away. He chose to follow and stay. That doesn't make her toxic. That's Forrest hurting himself with good intentions.
nah what's makes her toxic is every time she got used up then and only then she wanted Forrest attention. when he was making good efforts to show her attention and love she pushed him away to date other men
@@Kenara-sd2oi Not true. She never tried to use Forrest. Not one scene does she run to Forrest to use him.
@@Kenara-sd2oiyou sound angry that Jenny doesn’t “reward” Forrest for his genuine care for him with romantic reciprocation. He never expected her to date him, he just wanted to make sure he was okay, no matter what that looked like. Even after everything he does for her, Jenny STILL wouldn’t owe him a romantic relationship because they’re FRIENDS first and foremost. She only ever wanted a friend and he did that for her. Forrest doesn’t need any defense against Jenny’s actions.
@@khaleesi_cosimaYou're not wrong, but it's hard not to be a little pissed at someone who pushes away the people who care about them. Even a loving friend or family member would feel "cheated" when she up and leaves them to fall back with the wrong crowd.
@@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462 It hurts, but it helps to realize that such a move comes from a deep-seated self-destructive approach to life. People with terrible self worth (brought on by whatever reason) intentionally push people who care about them away, and engage in self-destructive behaviour, so they can punish themselves. It's not at all easy for the loved ones to deal with it even after understanding, but it helps to see it as a cry for help, rather than a wilfully hurtful act directed at them.
Oh man, this video made me cry😢😢😢
I loved this movie, but your account of being a dad and coming to grips with the fear of not wanting your children to make your mistakes or to have your flaws is one of the absolutely most relatable manly things ever.
I have always struggled with that too and to see you be so vulnerable, just broke me down man.
Thank you for this video man, it was truly an amazing video
One thing I love about this movie that I never see people discuss is how Forest and Jenny serve complimentary roles in the theme. The whole thing is really an anthology of a few decades of American history, with Forest always being right in the middle of mainstream culture and Jenny always finding her way to the dark side, or the counterculture.
He had a loving family, she had an abusive one. He was a football star and war hero, she was a drug addict and a hippie. And their reunions are always at places where it makes sense for culture and counterculture to be meeting.
Also, I think it's important to point out that "villain" and "antagonist" do not mean the same thing. I have never seen Jenny as a villain, but from a story structure perspective, I absolutely do see her as the antagonist of the film, in that she is the person who acts in opposition to the protagonist achieving his ultimate goal. That doesn't make her bad or evil. It's just a plot thing.
24:00 Ok... This is where I completely lost it. My 6 yr old daughter thinks I'm so smart and talented, and wants to be with me all the time. And yes, I'm TERRIFIED that she will become like me in all the ways that I am still healing from. I also know that for the first couple years of her life, she saw all the behaviors from me that I don't like, because as a tired, overworked, single mom, I couldn't control what version of me I was around her. I so appreciate Alan's vulnerability here. So relatable.
Same here… my kids are adults now, and have turned out great! So - don’t worry, your daughter will be just fine ♥️
@@EH23831 thank you so much. Sometimes I think it's our sincere intentions that carry us and our children through. She knows I love her, and I hope that's enough.
@@PhoenixAurelius-138 🤗
She'll be fine. I come from parents who experienced extreme poverty (and I mean hungry-poor) and abuse during the Great Depression and during WWII. They had problems, believe me, but I also knew they loved me and my brothers and did the best they knew how even though they made mistakes for sure. Some of their trauma passed on to me--it can't be helped--but it's tiny compared to what they suffered. And I've got a son who is doing marvelously with his kids because I worked hard to make sure as little of the trauma passed on to him. So you and your daughter will be fine; over the generations, because you're improving and working on it, it'll get better. I'm looking at my beautiful, happy, loving grandchildren, and I know it.
I appreciate Alan being so vulnerable this episode. It was refreshing to see as someone who doesn’t have a lot of men who show emotion in my life. Keep being you Alan❤️
I cried with him
Man, seeing Alan able to be open and raw with his friend whom he clearly trusts, is just great. I love it, such a great relationship to have where you don’t feel a threat to your manliness for being open about your emotions and feelings, and Jon just letting Alan have his moment, not judging him for it. It’s a breath of fresh air guys.
Love this movie, love your video, thank you for creating and sharing it.
Forest also had a good circle of people who supported him. He was driven by goals, had direction and when he wasn't sure I'm pretty sure he had people that were willing to help.
He didn’t have a goal or direction, he just kinda went with the flow and it worked out well for him
@@danielnidhiry5796 true except for being a shrimp boat captain
My own therapist used "The Glorious And" for me years ago! I used to struggle a lot with how I perceived my parents because on one hand, they did so much for me and it clouded the many times they failed me. My therapist then told me word for word: "Your parents love you, they did the best they could, AND the best they could hurt you."
Things have gotten better for me since then, especially now that I've told my mom that exact phrase to her directly. We've come to an understanding and that's helped our relationship now that I'm a young adult trying to make my own way in the world.
I'm so very grateful you covered Jenny and Forrest. I identify so much with Jenny, though in my case it wasn't my father, it only happened once and it didn't go nearly as far as what Jenny had to experience before I got away. It messes with your head, ruins relationships of all kinds, and it feels like it's never going to truly get better. I haven't come as far as Jenny has and I admire her so much for how strong she's been. Her struggle isn't weakness or villainy. She came out alive, which is simply admirable.
I’m sorry you relate to her in that way. I hope your life can be full of healing and love in the future friend. I love her story and how impactful and real the writers made her.
"We don't know what's underneath." It's so true. We don't know how the toxic person was raised, how their parents were raised, and their parents, and on and on. That doesn't mean we excuse the behaviors, but looking at the behaver through those eyes changes everything about how to respond to them.
1:10 is nobody talking about this intro with Forrest? 😭♥️
Ikr 😭
The scene where Forrest meets his son absolutely wrecks me every time. The writing and the performance are one thing, but what it demonstrates about Forrest's understanding of himself in relation to society at large, and the fear that he might have visited his struggles onto his son....it's just beautiful and heartbreaking.
I can’t believe someone could be so obtuse to what Jenny goes through. The way she views and thinks of herself breaks my heart so much. This is definitely in my top 3 favorite films. It’s so layered and multifaceted. It is a perfect film. AND THANK YOU! Forrest is not a “smart man,” but he’s definitely not a victim or helpless. He has wants, desires, needs. He is ambitious. He started a shrimp company, and made it a huge success. He would probably be a billionaire by today.
I wish you would do a whole series examining Forrest’s relationships with each character. The Bubba video would probably make me cry more than this one did.
Just want to thank you for this video. Made me bawl my eyes out but as someone whose been SA’d it means the world to see people defending us and showing real empathy and understanding cuz it’s incredibly rare. We often are villanized. Appreciate you.
There was a very popular Reddit post that explained why Jenny wasn't a villain in the movie.
The whole deal with pushing him away was not because she thought less of him. So much as it was that she was worried he wouldn't be able to properly consent, and she'd be hurting him like her father did to her.
Lotta ppl need to read this
Both of them are people who have been through varying degrees of trauma. They have both had times where they helped and hurt each other. They are imperfect people navigating a world that hurt and rejected both of them. All and all, they had an okay relationship. Some stuff was healthy, some was unhealthy.
This is my favorite movie. I've seen it so many times, i could quote it from star to finish. I will never understand the ''fun'' in the Jenny is evil joke. Anyone with 2 brain cells could see that what happenned to her dictated most of her life choices. Their relationship is not perfect sure, but is not toxic and this movie is beautiful.
Those people who say Jenny is evil or a villian, or even an antagonist are so incredibly broken inside...
@@Szokynyovics 100%. I will never understand such lack of empathy. She's such a beautifully complex character. This movie is a masterpiece
@@Szokynyovics Or just lack basic human empathy and don't have enough brain cells to watch films or take in any art with their brains turned on.
24:32 I told my psy that my biggest fear was to give my future kids my flaw and my trauma. It came out as : it would be easier to love some else kid or to foster kids in need. I’m deeply touched by this video. Thank you so much ❤
For Jenny, the one thing I really wish she didn't say to him is her assumption that he doesn't know what love is. I'm autistic, and it hurts when people assume that we can't love as deeply as neurotypicals. We do know what love is, romantic or otherwise, and we have the capacity to love and care for others. And as for Forrest, there are times where he should have been more delicate about helping Jenny, and he shouldn't be too imposing when she puts up boundaries. Respecting her boundaries is just as important as her respecting his humanity.
To be fair I think she is the one that don't really know well what love is at this point of the movie. She as mostly experienced really abusive relationships since childhood and has a really disorganised attachement style.
I think the ironic and sad thing about that line is that Jenny is....not projecting, exactly, but certainly punting her feelings at Forrest so she doesn't have to deal with them Basically , Forrest unintentionally backs her in to a corner in that scene and- because all her internal alarms are blaring- her brain goes: "I'm uncomfortable, overwhelmed and confused. I don't know what to do with these feelings. Here, Forrest. you have them. Catch!" She doesn't mean to hurt him. I don't think, she's just desperate for an out and not thinking very clearly. So, she goes for what she reckons is "the nuclear option."
@@cubbymumma3941I think that’s a beautiful way of putting it
I always thought she told Forrest he didn't know what love was because she was projecting. She *doesn't* know what love is. And didn't until she had her child and began working on herself for him. I love that they got together when it was completely right for them to do so, regardless of how little time they had after. 💜
@@moviemelody2210 That's very kind of you to say, thank you.
I think it gets overlooked by a lot of people because the movie frames it mainly as a joke, but the scene where Jenny shows Forrest her chest is *pivotal.*
It’s after that scene that Jenny starts actively pushing Forrest away, and I think it’s because she’s worried that what she’s done is sexually abused him the way her father did her.
Jenny recognizes that her lifestyle is self-destructive, and pushes Forrest away to spare him her misery.
That's such a perceptive take!
Sadly, I've known several people in my life who have been through some of the same trauma as Jenny so I never saw her as toxic, I watched the movie and hoped she'd finally realize her worth in the world. It took her a very long time to get there but I was happy she finally did. Some people never learn how to deal with their traumas.
There's a song by a woman named Christine Lavin called "Damaged Goods" and it pretty much sums up how I see Jenny. She sees herself as damaged goods, no good for someone as kind and gentle as Forrest. No good for anyone. Every time I see this movie I think of that song.
I love the commentary you just gave this. I've never understood how people labeled Jenny the worst person ever. She is an incredibly damaged hurt person who flewaway from her problems in anyway she could because she had zero tools to deal with what had been done to her. I really don't think the people who says she's the villain understand trauma and likely have never been threw something like that so they simply can't relate and only see it from Forests point of view. It's wonderful to see that she does grow and heal and instead of continuing that cycle with her son she creates a stable safe and happy environment for him to thrive in.
Also as the parent of a child with Autism who has a lot of similar traits as Forest (so loving friendly to everyone loyal to a fault but doesn't always know how to act in social situations and is judged so much for it) I love so much that this movie shows him making important lasting and strong relationships with other people other than his momma. Mine has finally started making friends who are real friends and don't judge him and respect him for who he is and it's beautiful to see and gives me so much hope for his future.
I had not thought about the concept if “my parents did their best, and their best messed me up.” I certainly was of the mindset for a time that I would just call my father toxic, but now I’m realizing that he’s doing his best, it just affected me in the wrong way.
Sometimes parents are toxic though and it's also ok to acknowledge the reality of that, when that is the case
Yes, I think a lot of this is a cycle of trauma and hurt. My dad did his best but a lot of it was messed up and it hurt my older sister (he was mostly healed when I was growing up). It wasn't until I was an adult that I learned about the horrific things he went through that he kept from us.
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@catgirl6803 this hits a nerve
Acknowledging their pain does not erase the pain they inflicted on us. You can hold two truths
When I started elementary school in the 90s, the teacher who didn’t have a classroom but assessed kids’ speech and learning levels kinda deal, told my parents I had “mental retardation” and I should get more testing done. My parents were upset and in denial but I was stoked because that meant I was like Forrest (my second favourite movie as a kid) so I thought I’d play ping pong for Canada, show the Prime Minister “my buttocks”, and save my buddies from a bad fight.
Didn’t see a specialist or anything until my late 20s, since my parents didn’t wanna believe anything was wrong with me. My wife urged me to see a psychiatrist and it turns out I have ADHD and/or level 1 ASD lol. I couldn’t save my best friend from himself, came up short on my athletic pursuits, and don’t know anyone of high importance, but still living my best life, I have a son that is almost 2 years old and I’m told I’m a great dad. So although I technically have a “disability” I am still thriving despite the tough road I had to go through thus far without actually being aware that im neurodivergent. Also my wife says it’s a “difability” and that I was born so powerful, that all the deities in the universe had to nerf me lmao which I really enjoy.
I agree with your guys’ opinion that Forrest Gump is a positive portrayal of intellicutal disabilities and does a good job of showing the diversity of how intellectual disabilities can present itself differently for each person.
If anyone read my wicked rank ramble, thank you, I hope you have a wonderful life and remember to take care of yourself, if you ain’t good to yourself, ya can’t be good to anyone, more or less anyways lol
This was a joy to read! Thank you ❤
💛
Your wife sounds amazing, sir. Best of luck to you and raising your kid ❤
The first time I watched this movie I HATED Jenny. I felt she used Forrest when it suited her and treated him like garbage when she didn't need him. It fed how I felt I was treated by some women when I was younger. I later realized I was putting undo expectations on girls/women who saw me as a friend. And how I was treated was based on the boundaries I never set.
When I watched this again, with more mature eyes and from a better place emotionally, as someone who was now in a stable place, I could understand her behaviour more. I could understand why she feared commitment and staying in one place. I could understand why she let herself be treated like crap by the men in her life and did not trust someone like Forrest who just accepted her for who she was. It was only when Jenny healed and became a mom and faced her mortality that she saw she COULD be loved. She COULD be happy and have a stable home. And that she could love someone back who deserved it.
I agree also !!! I felt the same way. Jenny annoyed me when I first watched the movie and when I was younger. But she grew sooo much and got a redemption. She apologized for her actions and asked Forrest to marry her and they got together even though they weren't married for too long.
@@Oneasianpersuasion It's interesting that you mention Jenny getting a redemption, because it reminded me of something Jono said way back in their Mad Max Fury Road episode, which has been instrumental in me learning to heal from my own traumatic childhood and forgive myself for my past mistakes. Basically, anytime we think about redemption in stories, we conceptualise it as turning away from evil and villain and becoming a good person, right. But Jono pointed out that redemption isn't only from the bad things that we do, but also from the bad things that were done to us. And the reason why we often don't realise that is because the latter often lead to the former, so we tend to focus on the former and don't really get to view people healing from being abused or hurt as redemption. But when you really think about it, it absolutely is
I also understand why she did all those awful things. I understand why she was a mentally broken abuser that perpetuated cycles of abuse. I just don't excuse any of it. Another way to look at it, she saw her mortality, her decades of bad choices and hurting people who didn't deserve it, and realized she was about to leave her kid without a parent, so she FINALLY decides to let his father know he even has a child, knowing that when she dies, Forrest is a moral enough person to raise his own son. There's no indication that without the AIDS diagnosis she would have ever told Forrest about his son. Maybe that's because that plotline comes in the last bit of the movie and they didn't have time to show the transition from "unrepentant, selfish narcissist" to "loving partner and mother." Maybe it's because that transition never happened to that character.
Every time I watch this movie, I still hate Jenny. I feel bad for her, but at some point a person has to admit their culpability in their own choices and actions. All of those reasons you gave for hating her are real and shown in the film. You just have to have enough nuance to be able to have sympathy for an objectively bad person. Your situation isn't quite 1:1, as I don't believe Forrest was putting expectations on Jenny to be anything that she wasn't. I can also see how Forrest might get some mixed signals after Jenny (debatably) sexually assaults him in her dorm room. I haven't seen anyone even mention that scene in these comments when hopping on the Jenny Did Nothing Wrong bandwagon...