Pimax Crystal SUPER and LIGHT announced… thoughts?
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Pimax announced TWO new PC VR headsets at their Frontier event. In this video, I run through the specs, and give a few of my overall thoughts on both the Pimax Crystal SUPER, and Pimax Crystal LIGHT.
[0:00] Introduction
[0:24] Removing that XR2 chip and battery from the standard Crystal
[1:21] Pimax Crystal Super specs, price, and my initial thoughts
[11:20] Pimax Crystal Light specs, price and my initial thoughts
[13:47] Closing thoughts
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I went ahead and got reservation on both OLED and QLED versions of the Super. As reviews come out I will order the best one for DCS, MSFS.
I'm glad they've ditched the battery and XR2 chip. If Pimax won't budge on the bulky design (for now at least) they should be hammering the PCVR wide FOV game. Cheers for the update!
They Super has a smaller casing than the Lite and original Crystal
I think they are sticking to it as it is within the current generation of pimax products. They still need it for the 12k implementation
Thanks for the video and information on the Lite headsets. This type of VR headset would be ideal for sitting down SIM racers like myself. The optics sound great and it connects directly to the display port of the GFX card.
Now going with the optional OLED optics, would we run into the Mira and glare problems that LCD displays don't create.
And if we want and wait for the wireless option and battery, we will probably be back over 1000 dollars again with the Crystal headsets. Too expensive for me. I really don't need eye tracking either for SIM racing games. My other VR headsets don't have it and they work just fine.
Right now I am holding off on getting anything new in VR headsets and will watch user and reviewer videos on You Tube for how well these newer Crystal headsets work. I am never one to buy items on day one.
Thanks and take care.
Love your videos keep them coming. As far as pimax it's going to be hard to buy another one until they prove it works with current 4090 pc hw and have actually working features instead of promises. Knowing what I know now I won't pre order ever again. The Crystal still doesn't have all of its promised features. Great headset now but at launch it was rough.
Yes, their way of slowly rolling out promised features can definitely be frustrating. Like you say, it's great now (for the most part) but it can be irritating having to spend a few months waiting for crucial features.
Exchange the lens to get 57 PPD is going to be awesome for anybody who wants to do actual work in VR, wants to watch movies in VR, or just wants to appreciate higher resolution in games.
With those lenses you'll get the retina quality that Varjo originally promised, on their initial prototypes, but with all of your software.
At 57 pixels per degree is going to require developers to upgrade the textures on their games to take it vantage, but I am so freaking glad.
Finally we will have a headset that has the same resolution as those VR theater for your face glasses they used to have like the HMZT one.
I hope people still have their 3-D Blu-ray collections like I do
Lol, not with the hammerhead, never with the hammerhead.
Gonna need a 5090 lol
No
@@Mrsavaga21 haha ok
I love Elite and Squadrons with my 1st Gen Crystal. At first I thought mOLED would be perfect, but since we don’t know the mOLED FOV, and QLED Super has wider FOV, the latter has me more excited. QLED Bloom doesn’t doesn’t seem noticeable to me except on Elite’s menu.
They are also increasing the number of local dimming zones on the Super, so it will be even better now.
@@dtz1000 That is also a good point for QLED.
Don't forget: MicroOLED have true blacks (without the disadvantages of local dimming) and are very bright. So the contrast on them inside the Pimax should be extremely good.
issue with individual pixels is that they leave vision light trails when you move around. just wave around one of those light sticks. that's literally what micro oled looks like in VR not as extreme because of the size.
the only way to fix that light trailing is if they make much higher resolution micro oleds but that wont happen in a million years i think. we will probably see something similar to short throw laser projectors that can track your eyes and cast holographic images mid air before we ever see higher res µoleds.
@@n9ne What are you talking about. I own both display technologies. And MOlLED have superior clarity when moving the view around and much higher pixel response time.
@@DaKindnes when you move the monitor around not you in a game bro. in VR you physically move the monitors around when you move duh
@@n9ne Ok interesting. Should not be a big issue for sim games. I preordered the OLED version because the panel technology is vastly superior.
Would love to know the FOV of the micro OLED with pancake lenses.
Thank you for the video! Recentered new episode when ;)
Do you have to pay extra for the SteamVR faceplate? How good is the tracking?
I have bastestations and index controllers, so do you think Crystal Light could be a worthy replacement of the venerable Valve Index?
Might be recording a Recentered episode this weekend... possibly. :D
You do have to pay extra for the SteamVR faceplate, although I can't remember the price off the top of my head. I actually just use the inside-out tracking in the Crystal anyway 90% of the time as I find it good enough for my purposes.
Crystal Light would be an excellent upgrade from the Index for certain games/experiences. Honestly, I still generally only use my Crystal for seated, sim-based experiences. It's certainly fine for standing games, but I find the bulk just annoying for those type os games where I'm leaning, crouching and turning a lot. For standing titles, I like the freedom of my Quest 3 with wireless PC VR where I can turn freely etc. For seated, sim-based games, Crystal is my go-to headset right now however.
@@ImmersedRobot I play exclusively standing and I don't play simulators, so maybe crystal lite is not for me?
As for inside out tracking, it all depends is buying hmd+faceplate is cheaper than hmd+controllers :)
But it'd rather avoid getting used to yet another controller type - unless they are a total Quest ripoff :D
Keen to get the Super but it will have to wait till i know if the 5090 can drive it. will wait for someone to confirm this before I replace current Crystal headset as my 4090 can’t keep up with the demands of 2880x2880 per eye.
Damn. Gonna have to replace my beyond already.
Great summary Gary
He missed out a few things.
This video was never intended to be a full breakdown of the spec sheet (there are plenty of videos which do that already). As always I try to focus on the specifics of what I personally find the most interesting and give my thoughts on those aspects.
I have Pico4 and the PSVR2 with the same VOF as the PSVR2 it will not be a sale. Just wait for the adapter for the PSVR2. Perhaps if Pimax had had a larger vof.
That SMS cartidge says Master. An everdrive or something?
Yeah, it’s basically as cheap a version of an Everdrive I could find. Works great though.
Will it be more Pimax in the skymax? 😁
Do you guys think a 4080 will be able to comfortably run DCS on the Pimax Super? Any suggestions or alternatives would also be very welcome!
It's difficult to say. I'm still on an RTX3080 (until the 5000-series drops) so I generally have to heavily manage framerates/resolution scaling depending on the title I'm playing. I suspect native Crystal Super resolution in DCS on the will be difficult, although it does have DFR quadviews which will provide a significant performance benefit so who's to say? I'm sure we'll get more information closer to the release date.
do you know how many years I should wait after purchase untill all the features will be working on the light one?
They got all the features working on the crystal in just a few months
Hm I‘m not sure what to think of this. They are going into the right direction I believe, but why another uplift in resolution? I own the Crystal and a 4090, and in most VR games I cannot even run stable 90Hz at 85% of the Crystal‘s resolution. Still, the QLED super looks interesting, wonder if I would need to buy a new lighthouse module when they change the form factor of the super?
What I learned from my 4K monitor: the higher the PPD the better you can run lower resolutions without losing too much sharpness.
Basically higher PPD removes the need for AA solutions. MSAA literally eats VR FPS and high PPD cures it. You can run lower res and lower graphic settings but make it look more like ultra
Future proofing. The 5090 will be out before the Super comes out.
Are you using foveated eye tracking? The resolution of the display should be practically irrelevant with foveated rendering.
Running Skyrim at "Godlike" (3K per eye) resolution through Virtual Desktop, the 7900XTX still runs 100fps+ decently well, if that resolution were foveated it would be MUCH more efficient.
It was ridiculous to make such a strong headset as standalone. I think they targetted potential apple customers but still it wasn't a good idea.
Edit: I just watched light version. Why did they took out eye tracking. It was the one of the most interesting spec of this headset.
The lack of eye tracking on the Light version is a disappointment for sure. I guess they're trying to get the price down as low as possible, but you're right, the eye tracking with DFR was something which really drew attention to the original Crystal.
It was the wireless module that needed the XR2, no other headset on their lineup can use it. Thats full resolution at 90hz wireless, its way above what any other headset can do wireless.
And as it uses foveated transport, you get great quality. Low compression in your viewport and higher outside of it.
It was just because they were using the xr2's inside out tracking. And also it enables the 60ghz wireless module to work, as the headset is self powered. I looks like the wireless module for pcvr may need an additional external battery pack (at least it does in the preproduction version)
They took it out because they didn't want the headset to cost 200 dollars more. It would also be a bit heavier. The bigscreen Beyond doesn't have eye tracking and no one complains about that.
@@dtz1000 weeeell... Eye tracking does allow you to save a lot of computer overhead in dynamic foveated rendering, and also makes it possible to use eye tracked input, and also allows you to change the lens distortion profile to your eye direction that could improve clarity even further.
Also it might make it possible to account for vergence and depth of field in the future. Basically eye tracking needs to become a standard feature. So it's unfortunate that it's expensive to do and licence
buyer's remorse anyone haha.
What did they buy? I can't wait for the Wireless on the Crystal
I think that's why so many here are criticizing these new headsets. Their crystals are no longer special and are overpriced now.
I agree completely. The micro OLED version sounds interesting but their commitment to releasing yacht size devices for the head is maddening. People continually defend this company saying huge size is necessary for the best visuals. This is BS and where there is a will there's a way, and headsets will be much smaller in the future. I'd buy this headsets in 3 seconds if it was half the size.
Well, this is for simulators/remote control... (aircraft,helicopter,car,truck,ship,...) and engineering in 3D primarily...where it replaces big domes or 3+screens...
@@electricaviationchannelvid7863 I agree that the Crystal line is best suited to sim-based, seated games (or as you mention, perhaps the 3D design type of applications). I will only recommend it myself as a primarily sim-focused type of headset. I think the problem comes in where Pimax places it as that 'general all-rounder' VR headset in their marketing material, showing people playing HL: Alyx and Beat Saber in their headsets. While it can certainly do this in a practical way, it's simple not as well suited to those types of applications. Again, in my opinion.
@@ImmersedRobot 700 bucks for that resolution…vow, for me that is cheaper than some gaming monitors…and more portable/easy setup…
@@electricaviationchannelvid7863 apologies, I thought the comment was in reference to the bulk of the headset, not the price.
Pimax Super Qled is nice but what if they still have bloom problem in dark scene?
They are substantially increasing the number of local dimming zones on the Super. So it should be much better now. I wish they did the same for the Light version but it doesn't look like they will for that one.
How typical of Pimax. Stamp size panels in this humongous form factor, jokes on the buyers.
They said the super will be a little bit smaller. It will be the best v. R headset available, just like the crystal is the best no.
Yes, strange that they don't experiment more design wise, given how easy it is to print out new prototypes with 3d-printers.
We need a bingo sheet for every upcoming Pimax Launch to see how this launch MIGHT (i hope pimax does better) flop like every other pimax launch.
this would have been my next upgrade from index...but I do not want a breadbox strapped to my head ..I'll wait to see what..if ever the index 2 is
I think I will buy the Crystal Light as a stop gap until the index 2 arrives. The index 2 could take years to come out and may not even be competitively priced. We just don't know.
Besides the price, I find the no wireless the biggest con :(
Is local dimming worth 200$ more for pimax light?
Local dimming is worth it but regular qled is still better than LCD for color and black.
@@ji3200 yes but 200$ only for Local dimming.... Sound too much for my ears... 😅
Qled is maybe enough yes... 😎
@@scanx6163 im going for Pimax Super. VR is one of my main hobby so $1800 not gonna hurt my life.😁
How much better than the Quest 3 are these bad boys?
We’ll have to wait and see, but these will probably be the high-end choice for sim-gamers due to the high resolution displays, FOV, and overall lens clarity. Although the inside-out motion controller tracking tends to be better on the Quest 3 in my experience.
@@ImmersedRobot Thanks. As someone very new to VR I'm still learning the terms. LTT said they thought outside in was still better but that the Q3 was really good. It seemed like the sensible option in my price bracket. Tbh.. i was going to go with a Q2 but I thought sod it treat yourself. Still not sure if it's really worth the outlay... unsold as yet. It's heavy and batt is short lived.
With eye tracking and foveated rendering the resolution of the display should be almost irrelevant, even at 3840x3840 there's no way you'd actually be rendering more pixels on the Crystal Super than you would at native resolution on something like the Quest.
The eye tracking and foveated rendering only improves the frame rate by about 30%.
@@dtz1000 If that's the case they're not being very aggressive with the peripheral resolution reduction.
The fovea of the human eye only covers two degrees field of view, if eye tracking is working properly you can run 99% of the display at half resolution with minimal perceived quality loss.
In practice, with current technology, that 99% of the display at a much lower resolution doesn’t work very well unfortunately. OpenXR Toolkit gives full flexibility in adjusting the centre, middle and outer edges of DFR implementation. Even with a relatively large central foveated high resolution area, the drop off is noticeable beyond a certain point.
It’s noticeable in the sense of flickering, aliasing on your peripheral view due to the way current technology in DFR works. Perhaps as the technology and implementation of DFR improves, we might be able to get a more natural, ‘closer to real life’ implementation of DFR. But as it stands, being too aggressive is hugely noticeable and can’t get close to that 99% figure unfortunately.
@@ImmersedRobot I hate to say it but running your VR games with TAA would fix any flickering (practically the only thing TAA accomplishes).
The reason I hate to say it is because TAA dramatically reduces sharpness across the entire image, as well as adding latency, so you're giving up central sharpness and responsiveness for the sake of a uniformly smooth image.
I know people hate the aliasing flicker and how un-immersive it is but I would just put up with it and keep using foveated rendering with raw native 4K per-eye anyway.
Once we're talking about 8K per-eye that's enough native resolution that TAA might be outright the best option.
The form factor is way too big and it requires a beefy PC. I wish them well though.
That's why I'm ignoring the Super and going for the Light.
Ever drink Crystal Light? Sold here at grocery stores.
Never heard of it. Just Googled it though, and I’m pretty sure we don’t have that in the UK. It looks like it’s packaged in quite a big form-factor though…
@@ImmersedRobotThey did say the super would be a bit smaller but have the same design style.
Pimax is pushing pc vr forward. We should all be supporting them.
Certain games would be better played on oled optical engine. I've already got my headset reserved.
Just googled.. hah
I disagree, the micro oled is the first thing I would get, no way youre pushing the res to take advantage of the 3840 displays eithout a 5090.
Ill take perfect blacks for the first time since 2019.
I can understand that. I think we put value into various different aspects of all these VR devices, and I know many people share your opinion. I've always been someone who, while I appreciate the high contrast and true black levels of OLED, has never put as much value in that aspect as others. Coming from my Rift CV1 and Vive to the LCD-based Index was never a huge problem for me in that aspect. Having said that, with all other things being equal, then yes of course I'd love to get true blacks back also.
@@ImmersedRobot that's so strange considering how much elite you play 🤭
What im a big skeptical is, can a single element aspheric lens actually resolve that 14.5MP panel? The pixels on those panels are tiny, you constantly need a better lens system and a single element is never ideal as it can be fully corrected.
If only Crystal light cost $100 less with controllers 😢
No reason to get the micro-OLED since QLED version is 50PPD which is close to human vision and twice the pixels of the original Crystal. That's way more than enough. Plus QLED is brighter and more vibrant...bigger FOV. I probably want to watch movies in QLED in 50PPD too as well with the bigger FOV...no reason to swap.
Is QLED really that better? Because so far we have only seen MicroOLED behind Pancake lenses which absorb a lot of the brightness.
@@blizado3675 I think MicroOLED lacks brightness...that's the problem.
If they didn't offer it people would complain. Well haters complain about everything.
@blizado3675 pimax also using pancake but glass instead of plastic
4k is the limit not just for TV's but also VR. SDE is gone so im not sure why anyone would want a higher resolution VR headset. Games will look better through virtual pixels(texture resolution) not the resolution of your headset.
Hardware will never be able to do anything higher than 4K anyway. the rtx4090 can't even handle games higher than 4K unless you're one of those 30fps enjoyers. High end graphics cards have been stuck at 4K for a decade now and it won't change. Even Samsungs 150" Micro LED TV is only 4K res.. they even have a 2K res version but you can't see the pixels. These companies will never make anything higher resolution because it's pointless and also who is going to want to transfer data over 4K.. data transfer is literally killing companies like Twitch xD they had to shut down in Korea because of it. They can't even handle 1080p in Korea lol
Panal manufacturers look at reality first.. not VR. Maybe 30+ years from now when VR is big we might see higher resolution panels. It's gonna take 10 more years for these gorilla tag kids to grow up and have kids and another 10 years for their kids to get into VR and that's if these gorilla tag kids get children at the age of 20-30.. VR probably wont be very big until 2060 realistically.
soo confusing is right
OLEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Once again, Pimax are trying to do too many things rather than concentrating on one and still no sign of the elusive 12k headset. How can they hope to keep up with distribution around the world (let alone support) with all these flavours. Just do one, maybe two, and concentrate on those!
I generally agree with you. I think the addition of the XR2 and battery in the original Crystal was a mis-step in my opinion (although it will allow for the wireless module when that eventually releases). If they had originally released something closer to the 'Light' Crystal but included eye-tracking for DFR at a slightly lower price than the launch Crystal price, then it could have been something very special to build on. The problem is, I think these new products are attempting to correct that initial mis-step, while also staying relevant in a post-Apple Vision Pro world.
@@ImmersedRobot Yes, absolutely, if they had released the Lite at the beginning of the Crystal launch, I would have bought one (probably without eye tracking DFR to be honest) at that price. But I still have this nagging 'the customer is their R&D department' issue and that is mostly what stops me from buying Pimax, along with reported horror stories with Pimax customer support should you have issues.
They are concentrating on one thing; Vr.😊
@@ImmersedRobot What if people want a wireless SUPER w/ a bigger FOV? Then they can't have it. They had to resort to the original Crystal. What Pimax should have done is have both wireless only headsets, PCVR only headsets, and wireless + PCVR ONLY headsets. That's the ONLY way to satisfy ALL customers.
They did concentrate on the Crystal for last 2 years. It's like you waited for them to release a new version so you can resurrect an old complaint. I personally want wireless. Accommodating different play styles snd cost is great.
Everyone keep trying to make inside out tracking sound better that external tracking and it infuriates me. I love and want external tracking on my headset. As soon as a headset is camera tracked I’m out. No interest in it
by the way i can prove that those micro oleds are $200 each and the qleds are $100 each. the difference in pricing between the qled and micro oled give it away.
i knew they were $200 before this but this proves it even further. goes to show how overpriced these headsets are and the index2 can't come soon enough.
it was said that the panels in the apple vision was the highest priced component.
these companies have the right to make money but ...where are they going to find enough people willing to spend that much cash. all it takes is for the new index headset to use similar QLED panels and be priced at $500. which is more than possible.