Americans Leaving Portugal for United States
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- #portugal #expat #unitedstates #d7visa
Video Length - 00:11:59
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Great video, we've seen the same thing. If people are coming just to save money and expect paradise, they are going to be returning home. We love Portugal and are so grateful for the easy visa, but it's not for everyone, and it's not easy.
Very true! Hope you two are doing well as you are traveling all over the place!
My goal was not to just try to save money and find paradise because I am not that naïve, paradise doesn't exist on earth ! But at least find a certain quality of life that I haven't found with their old buildings and flats that are big energy drainers for the most part. Unfortunately, the beaches, even though beautiful are quite useless since the ocean is way too cold to swim. Then the language is difficult and Portuguese are kind of not very open to make foreign friends. There is no sense of 'belonging'. And the noise everywhere . Anyway, we'll see.
@@Carolinapetroska You are spot on. Most people here want your money but don’t want to spend any time with you at all. It’s like ‘can’t you just mail me the money?’
If I ended up in Portugal I would seek to buy an apartment (preferably in Coimbra or Braga) rather than pay rent. As long as Portugal remains attractive for foreigners, rents will continue to climb, though by Australian - especially Sydney and Melbourne - criteria, they are still modest enough.
The other complaints mentioned in the video wouldn't affect me much. Not being American, I don't have to worry about I.R.S. dictates. As for customer service efficiency, well, by American standards almost all countries in the world are deficient in that. (An American professor once said to me: "In America, the attitude is 'The customer is always right.' But in France, the attitude is 'The customer will get the best I can give him, which might or might not be his preferences.") Long lines in, and long phone calls to, banks and government departments seem a feature of Latin countries in general rather than of Portugal in particular.
Certainly I would want to become much more fluent in Portuguese than I now am (I've got some basics) before making any big move. It seems the right thing to do.
Thank you for the great comment!
My Portuguese teacher who’s in Lisbon says the same thing about customer service. It is what it is. Great video again.
Thank You. We have the same it is what it is an approach to customer service. It was a surprise to hear it from several people.
Interesting topic and results Joric.
Thanks!
You are welcome.
At first i wanted to apply for my portuguese Residence permit. But after observing, there's just too many old people in Portugal. Many portuguese and immigrants have no money even to buy cigarettes. They kept asking me for cigarettes. Many youths in Portugal are drug addicts. Many alcoholics too! Robberies of shops and apartments are on the rise too. Homelessness is everywhere.
Anyone that has lived in Portugal for a year or two might be quite unpleasantly surprised at how bad the customer service has become elsewhere as well.
Very true.
I accept the realities. I am loving my life here.
Great perspective.
I lived in Alameda, Lisbon from 2014 - 2016. I shared an apartment with 5 others. Shared kitchen and bathroom. I had one small room with zero insulation for the winter period and the electrical wiring was so poor that the electrical fuse box constantly turned off when all 5 rooms had the heater on. The room would constantly be infected with house mold spores on the ceiling and walls, due to poor heating and ventilation. For this I paid 800,- EUR every month. I am form a Nordic country and as such I was paid more than the average Portuguese citizen. But still 800,- EUR for a room in such poor condition is nothing short of highway robbery. As I understand it the city council has decided not to renovate or tear down these old buildings as they are "historical". This is what is causing the housing shortage in Lisbon. The students are forced to stay at their parents homes or move way outside Lisbon and then have to spend hours commuting to school or work in the city. The City keeps on attracting more and more workers as all the big companies are there. But nothing is being done to solve the housing issues. I remember that I was once informed that the rent could not be raised by more than 10% per year. But sadly this information was apparently not provided to the landlords (more likely they didn't care) so they basically set their own terms. Don't like it? Move out... I loved the city in the summer when it was hot and beautiful, but it is an absolute nightmare in the winter. I have now lived in Poland for the past 4 years and I have a average size apartment in Warsaw for the same price and none of the above mentioned issues.
Great insight, thank you for taking the time to comment.
From 2014 to 2016, rents were still reasonable, if you were paying more expensive it's because you were foreign too. But 800 euros, my God, no doubt they were robbing you. if it was expensive before, imagine now! Even though I am Portuguese, I left Portugal and now live in Germany (Berlin). Portugal is very expensive for the level of salary you earn there. That's why I still think the new laws that the government has enacted there, to attract more emigrants, is just a gateway that will only ruin portugal more. Because many emigrants come just to get Portuguese citizenship, as soon as they have had a residence permit and get a passport, they leave there and go to another European country. Because nobody stays in a country, which although it is beautiful, cannot live there, because of the difficulty of having a decent salary to feed their family. For foreigners who come all rich, and who live on several salaries, Portugal opens its doors and they are welcome. But what about the average Portuguese person who has to put up with and live on a minimum wage? Yes, that's what Portugal is doing to its own people. If they can't afford to live, let them immigrate. The government solution that should help its people, only does the exact opposite. That's why the Portuguese Government decided to allow greater emigration facilities, so that there are people living there, even if they are foreigners to pay taxes (robbing you).
Because the way it is going, one day the Portuguese will no longer be there and will only have second and third generation emigrants... which is the case in Germany. I'm Portuguese, I was born there, and I only visit my country for holidays. That's the state things have reached! Thank you, Portugal, for expelling your people!
@@estevaocunha5302 Do you feel like there will be a point where the government in Portugal focuses more on it's own, versus people like me (immigrant from US?). We get a 10-year deal on taxes, but our neighbors who are all Portuguese, do not get the same benefit. What do you think it will take for the government to wake up and start supporting its own citizens?
@@traveltidbitsrus Hello Joric, to be necessary for the Portuguese government to wake up from this inertia, is to invest more in families, that is; economically, as Germany and Sweden have been doing for decades. The social family system in Portugal is practically non-existent. The few financial aids that exist in Portugal, for example, for families with children, the support for children is very poor. This makes families unwilling to have more children because the family financial situation is miserable. In contrast in Sweden and Germany there has been a boom in babies being born, because as I mentioned before, the financial aid to help families with children is great. That is why so many foreigners have come here. This in the long run would make Portuguese families not need to immigrate and would give a boom also in Portugal. with time it would be good for the Portuguese economy as well. But the Portuguese government doesn't think about it in the long term they think immediately. Portugal needs money now, a lot of money and at the same time needs people who pay taxes. Foreigners in principle usually have more money than nationals, and this they did as soon as they came to Portugal and started investing. Whether it's buying property or even taking out private health insurance. These are things that are very far from the Portuguese themselves. Imagine the amount of foreigners who are emigrating to Portugal and almost all of them want to buy a house and invest money in various things. Now just imagine the amount of money that is coming in? Even if now you are not paying tax, you are still spending more on average than the Portuguese themselves, and that is the difference. Of course everyone has their own opinion, and this is mine. But I don't see any other solution for Portugal. If Portugal does not invest much more in a social family system financially, (welfare state), the tendency is that the Portuguese will not stop immigrating. This will make Portugal have to call foreigners for Portuguese jobs, which are very poorly paid and stressful. Which is the case that has been going on for about 2 decades. A strong labour immigration to occupy certain jobs that the Portuguese are no longer willing to do. They themselves go abroad where they earn much more and invest in Portugal on top of that. Have no doubts if you are there in Portugal, even if you are well received and treated, the main reason is that portugal needs your money by investing there.
About the woman who completely changed the family welfare system in Sweden.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alva_Myrdal
@@estevaocunha5302 Incredibe. Thank you for explaining so much of what I do not understand here in Portugal. Thank you for sending the information on Myrdal. All of our neighbors in our building are pensioners, and every one of them says things were better under Salazar. I don't know what to say when they say this, because I thought he was terrible for the country. Although I still struggle with the language, they have said more people had jobs, more families existed, and they lived better. I don't know if any of it is true, but when I listen to them, they certainly say the older days were better.
Portugal is very expensive when I visited 7 years ago. Everything was either on a par with the UK or much higher.
It can only have got much worse since
Thank you for your comment.
Yes extremely expensive.... Everything except wine
@sophielabelle3324 unfortunately I'm not a wine drinker 😞
Excellent video Joric. Reminds me to go over these points together with my better half who’s never lived abroad before.
* Didn’t consider the tax issue you raised-appreciate that. Our thoughts are to rent in PT, NOT sell our home immediately-just in case PT and our ‘Plan B’ locations don’t work out.
* It’s easy to see rental prices being a major issue and causes us heartburn just hearing about it. Thank you for your great work. 🙏🏻
Thank you so much!
It is good to hear the perspective of people who are making the decision to leave Portugal. I have been looking at some AirBNB prices for a future longish stay and was surprised to see how much they went up from just one year ago. I need to learn more about the tax situation for retirees, as that will apply to us. One of our reasons to move is that we want to be closer to family as most of our family is in Europe and Israel.
I hope you are having a peaceful Passover. The tax thing is an issue, meaning, your first year of taxes may include selling property/assets back in the US. So, the first year taxes reflect this, whereas in year 2,3, your tax situation may be more stable and more like what your typical annual taxes would look like.
Most of the Airbnb licenses won't be renewed and the situation will be re-evaluated in 2030 by the government because all landlords were putting their properties on short term rentals which leaves nothing for long term residents. That's why the government had to interfere.
Being from the UK, we've visited Portugal many times for holidays. Obviously, living here is different. We managed our expectations prior to living here, and we have not really been disappointed. Yes, life can be challenging, but we like the simpler life in the sun. We don't live in Lisbon, Porto or especially The Algarve! We live in a small working city and enjoy meeting the locals - yes, there has been a big influx of people from all parts of the world over the past year, but it seems some rose-tinted glasses have been removed due to the availability of good Tex-Mex food or the lack of 24/7 stores. Perhaps 'International Living' magazine painted a very different picture? I'm expecting the trickle to become a flood to other European countries or back home over the next few years... The reasons I hear... not getting favourite foods from home, import taxes or problems with customs, taxation, learning to language and bureaucracy!
All fantastic points. A move to any country comes with good and bad days, risks, and rewards. I will speak from my own experience on this topic. When I stopped wanting Portugal to be like the US and embraced the differences and opportunities here, it changed my expectations, which led to me starting an expat consulting service.
@@traveltidbitsrus Good fortune with your business. I fully expect us to stay at least until the NHR finishes - then, we'll see? We sometimes feel that incomers, especially from the US, feel like they have escaped rather than coming to a better place. This gave me a perspective on their reasoning.
@@tinglestingles I believe you are spot on regarding people moving, especially from the US. The first question I ask is, "Why do you want to move to Portugal?" At least 75% respond saying they want to get out of their country, not that they really want to move to Portugal. I think most of us are in the same boat with NHR. Do we stay or go after it expires? We are still working. We can take advantage of it now, but it will expire before we retire.
@@traveltidbitsrus A lot can change in 8 years! Who knows? I have said after many interactions that Portugal is a bridgehead into Europe - a fairly cheap, quick and easy way to get EU citizenship via Golden Visa or D7 route - then 28 countries can become home in 5 or 6 years? Time passes quickly here, but the pace is slow - The Portuguese Paradox? We love it.
@@traveltidbitsrus We love it - no longer!
TAP does have terrible brutal customer service.
Tap in under the government perfusion....
Great vlog Joric! I totally agree...Don't move with your expectations!! It's true rents are out of control so don't move here thinking it's cheap! It was, but now not so much...Thankfully we were turned off by rent prices and decided to buy for affordability, control and security! So, for me the only slightly negative thing is Portuguese workers not wanting to work for foreigners, but for the most part the Portuguese people are very friendly and welcoming...We are here forever!!!
Hi Tamara, question around your comment about workers not wanting to help foreigners. Do you think that’s because of the language differences? Just more difficult for them than they want to take on? Hope that’s it and not because they just don’t like us. We’re moving there in Oct. and I have been working very hard on my Portuguese for by that time nearly 2 years.
"Portuguese workers not wanting to work for foreigners" - I'm curious, could you expand on this one? It's the first time I hear this and I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're saying. Are you talking of house servants? Are you talking of office/company workers? Are you talking of handymen?
@@rickchandler2570 It's mainly older, maintenance type working men...I think a bit of misogyny is involved so my husband needs to deal with certain things and quotes. I've been told literally 'NAO' and 'I only work for Portuguese '!! I do need to up my Portuguese language skills and by no means is this a huge problem, buy a few gave said it's also just that many don't want to take on small jobs. Like everywhere, you live and you learn!!
@@UbuTube So, kind of all in general...I find that we need to do our research and get to the serious companies and workers...Lots ghost us or over quote us or just plain say I won't work for you!! It's like every new culture, place...Takes learning and understanding! But, I am seeing some resentment of foreigners...Luckily, my neighbors are great, stores and city great, but to find help...Tough! We are doing most of our renovation ourselves because no one wants to do small, partual jobs. We found a gardener to clear a small part of the garden for 40€...First quote 360€!!! I had a plumber near me literally tell me no to install a water heater and toilet and that's it, no explanation! A neighbor's gardener told me 'I don't work for anyone not Portuguese '!! HUH?!? I am nice and not at all rude! Lots say one thing and don't follow through...All said, I still love it here and we are figuring it all out. For every one who doesn't want to work for you, there's another, but it's a bit shocking!!
@@tamaramadelin4831 Interesting. But I think you may be reading too much into those weird behaviours. Assuming most (all?) of those behaviours came from older generation handymen/construction workers, here's my take on this issue.
Most of it is a mix of:
- low literacy levels (an incapacity to communicate in a way that is considered "normal" in 2023)
- the fact that construction workers/handymen have three job opportunities for each time slot that they have available
- remnants of the culture that existed in Portugal pre-1974 (a way of living in which people would say "yes", "no", or just kept their mouths shut - no long and logical explanations ever)
- remnants of the USSR-loving/Marxist period that existed post-1974 and which make some (now mostly older) people see anyone who looks bourgeois as "the enemy"
My mother (who is Portuguese and 84) has a tendency to wear her gold, and expensive clothes, and has had several experiences similar to the ones that you've described:
- handymen demanding outrageous prices
- one handymen whom she forgot to ask the price beforehand asked for a high price after finishing the job. When my mother protested he said 'OK, if you think it's too expensive then don't pay anything'. And he just walked away.
My advice:
- try younger guys
- try Brazilian/Romanian/Moldovan/Ukrainian workers instead of Portuguese
- wear old rags when meeting them (though your house will probably betray you...)
I don't think it is specifically because you're a foreigner, it is mostly because you look prosperous. Never underestimate the Marxist streak in Portuguese society.
So in Porto not in the center how much for 1 bedroom apartment ?
You can do a search on idealista portugal for specific areas. It appears 600-1300 euros per month, depending on area.
I am also trying to leave Portugal because I find this country boring and expensive with no comfortable and affordable properties but I don't know where to go ? I don't want to return to my home country either so I am in limbo.....
Im here now for 5 months and bought some land to live off grid, the people here are so racist and I realise as well that its so boring, nature is really beautiful and I like that I have lots of space here and no traffic. But that's it..
It's easy, you go somewhere where nobody goes. Prices will be great. But there will be no expat community. Better to spot new hotspots early. Southern Italy perhaps.
I believe that not enough people tell the truth about Portugal. It's absolutely a beautiful country, but safety and the people are overrated. I read the newspapers to keep my Portuguese up, and I see murders, rapes and robberies all the time. It's not paradise. People are people, and we mustn't ever let ouri guard down.
Also, I watch a lot of Portuguese speaking communities, and they view Portugal very differently. They speak the language, live with, work with, and serve the Portuguese people. Portuguese can be rude, and they can be very racist.
I lived in Portugal some years back, and I could not see what all the fuss is a out. It's beautiful, but there are lots of beautiful places in the world.
Teddy Davis What newspapers are you reading from which area in Portugal? Just curious is what you are stating about the crime rate is a location-specific problem.
Great comment. I do agree day to day life in Portugal is life many other places. It is nice here, but to your point, it is not paradise.
hi Joric, just a technical note/suggestion...
for those on cellphones/tablets/etc (anything w/o an ad-blocker), your sound levels are below the ads. when they break-in, they are considerably loud & annoying. you might want to test your level against some avg ads & bring it up to just above them. that way people don't struggle to hear you or turn up their device volume, just to have an ad blow em back in their Memorex lounge chair & spill their glass of wine.
;D
Thank You so much for the feedback. I have my regular volume at the max 400% on iMovie when I create these things. because so many people said they could not hear me in earlier videos. I will see what I can do about the ads and the volume of my vids so people are not bursting ear drums.. Thank you again!
@@traveltidbitsrus ...might need to adjust mic level in your system, before the file reaches your editing software?
in the early days with my gopro 2, i'd have to adjust levels, save the edit, then start it as a new edit to adjust them further. real pain, heh.
not familiar with iMovie - i use the free version of DaVinci Resolve.
@@Krazie-Ivan Thank You. I will read up on this. We are headed to Italy for a while and I still have some vids ready to go. I'm going to apologize up front if the next few still have that issue. I'm going use your tip in the editing process, and, I am going to investigate getting another mic, and learning more about new editing software.
Thank you, I will look into this while on our trip.
Hi Joric, could you also please talk about internet/cable/phone providers in Portugal? What provider you think has the best service, etc. Thanks in advance!
Use the search button for my videos and type in NOS or MEO. I did do a video talking about the different services to choose from.
@@traveltidbitsrus I see. Ok, I have to check on that one. Thanks so much.
@@franciafoy Most are similar, but, one might have better internet speeds, another better phone data options, and another more tv channels. It really depends on what your needs are.
@@traveltidbitsrus i have not watch your video yet about the providers but are you satisfied with the provider you have right now? I also check the cable channels that are available in Braga area that we are planning on moving to but it seems that we might regret signing up a year for the cable option. Internet is number priority and phones also.