@@MakeVarahHappen People are always a bit disingenuous when it comes to Commander, popping off on turn 3-4 consistently due to the sheer amount of ramp is cool vroom vroom, wait incremental advantage over a medium to long term period unless they answer it, fuck that I don't wanna answer anything. I can be disingenuous too. Hullbreacher isn't cool because of what it can do in one turn, but ultimately it was an answer to greedy players.
@@Spaced92 People don't pop off turn 3 because of sorcery speed land ramp land ramp, sorry to burst your bubble. That's from deploying and protecting your combos, which quite rarely use Rampant Growths, the last I heard.
I have watched countless hours and never once did Crim sound wise to me. I would even go further and argue that there was no point at which Crim didn't sound like a complete moron to me. I mean he put kodamas reach in the salt list. Why is he even allowed to speak?
@@keep7smiling because seeing a land that taps for Green is salt inducing all on its own, but to see that mana spent for a green card, that’s a step too far
Ngl really dislike Crim. Definition of a blue simp. Blue and black he just creams for and hates green no matter what card if it's green he hates it. Rhystic is fine to him and ramp is broken??? So stupid
And that is why I always have a spare land destruction to switch into decks if I'm gonna go against green. If your allowed to ramp and get 6 or 7 lands in one turn, I have the right to remove those 6-7 lands in one turn.
@@singularleaf3895 And that's why I always run a Bane of Progress to answer that blue player with 17 mana rocks on his field. It all comes out in the end. I love MLD because I'm a selesnya mage. You ramp out to an insane degree play Armageddon holding up mana for Reshape the Earth. Just kidding that's magical Christmas land.
Also it's a viable and cool way to win with Mono white mono red and boros which need the most help anyway (outside of a few spicey mono red commanders)
@@singularleaf3895 I mean yeah but if you are going to look at everyone's decks before you choose one it's kinda a dick move. Choose your deck before seeing what other people chose
I feel like with fierce guardianship a big thing is it has no downside. The other free counter spells have a cost to be free, a downside. Fierce guardianship has no punishment for tapping out and playing it. No card discarded or exiled, no mana to pay or lose the game, just a free negate.
I feel like it has a variable downside. The higher cost your commander the later it becomes free. It also doesn’t protect your commander on the stack or creature etb destroys, not that there are tons of those. Casting a Nicol Bolas for 8 and getting it essence scattered can just lock you into a loss.
"Haha just play removal bro then their fierce guardianship wobt be free" The problem with this is the commander clause is not a downside it's a condition that is fairly easy to meet. Also the amount of times you're fine with a 3 mana negate is fairly large and if you're at the point of the game where youre commander is to expensive you can probably afford to keep 3 mana up. It's not even powerful enough to be banned it just shouldn't have been printed.
Good point while I think the effect is fine, to many decks abuse it & have access to it constantly even after it’s cast Having it exile itself after it resolves could have made it way more balanced IMO
@@shinsua_ i agree with that, should protect your spell on the stack or a permanent. If it was free while protecting your commander it would be way less op
id be surprised if anyone knew how to play magic in my experience theres moments where players have forgotten what colour an island or forest taps for and have lost the game because of that loss of insight
@@Naturessightsandsounds7040 i think they are saying, if you hate them and then put them in your decks your then you don't hate them that much. They aren't saying they know better. No need to get salty
Oh, yeah. Whenever someone resolves an eight mana value sorcery to take advantage of the wider board state to win, I'd say it was a good game played. I find it difficult to understand how one could get salty about that, outside of bringing it into a power level 2 or so meme game, but even there the more salty cards would be worse.
@@qwormuli77 Because nothing that happened in the game mattered. It feels like a waste of time rather than a game being played. It's the same reason Worldfire was banned. Not because it was good, but because it entirely invalidates everything. The rest of the game might as well not have happened.
@@dontmisunderstand6041 Insurrection doesn't invalidate the rest of the game, it depends on the rest of the game and a large, slow board presence. On a smaller boardstate it acts as a political removal tool, boardwipe with a plus (W/a sac outlet) or an elimination against the most threatening player. That works as a reason sometimes and you might have heard of it before to repeat now, but not now, on this card.
@@qwormuli77 Ok, sure, yes, in the extremely niche case where all 4 players in a game of commander are playing mono-removal or board wipe tribal, it's theoretically possible for insurrection to not be an automatic and undeserved win for the player who cast it that invalidates quite literally everything that happened before. In that kind of scenario though, it's not getting cast in the first place, and even if the idiot did cast it, it wouldn't resolve. You don't cast spells that read "win the game or do absolutely nothing" unless you're in the situation where it actually does that. Look, I get that you've never played a game of Magic The Gathering before and just want to participate. Try not to embarrass yourself too much with that ignorance though.
I find it funny that Tomer doesn't mind Drannith Magistrate because of the entire play group, he always seems like the one who builds most all in around his commanders.
Green ramp is only a problem because we are told that land destruction isn’t okay. And what are the worst colors for commander? Red and white? The primary colors that have any land destruction
I personally don’t mind Dranith Magistrate. You kill it and move on most of the time. Sometimes it gets you but there are far more salt inducing things happening here.
I don't mind magistrates effect and think a couple more versions of the effect would be good, just like anti tutoring. But this stuff NEEDS to be symmetrical. As a deck builder you should have to make the hard choice of giving up power or consistency to include these type of cards. In fact, this very thing is what made deck brewing fun once upon a time. Limitation breeds creativity. For this reason I hate magistrate
I personally hate the card, it literally stops people from being able to playbthe format the way it was designed. If I'm playing cedh feelings are out the window but drannith is casual is major 🧂
Drannith Magistrate never survives long in our meta. I don’t see it as an issue at all. Removal is a core part of the format and there are three other people to remove it.
I think that it is not good. White can protect this, while not being affected by it. If this was symmetrical, then there would be less salt, but as it is its a problem.
Yeah, I've never seen it cast and make an impact on the game to degree that Richard states it does. It was annoying for a turn, maybe. But it doesn't have flash and frankly, Commanders have a soft social-shroud nowadays and I rarely need to cast my general over and over.
Obscuring Haze is honestly my favorite of the free cycle. It's the exact power level that the other cards should have been. It represents a very powerful, classic color-appropriate effect, and then has situational zero mana investment.
Exactly. You have to specifically care about the effect and play with it, instead of it just being the staple combo protection/disruption card of that color. If Haze was like the rest of them, it would have read something like "instant - Destroy each artifact and enchantment you don't control", which every green deck ever would want to play without any real consideration.
Powerful? Is Fog powerful in commander now? I disagree completely with this, because Obscuring Haze sees 0 play at all. And with good reason. The only comparable card that is generally considered Commander playable is Spore Frog, and only in decks that either benefit a lot off the dies trigger or can bring it back constantly. TL:DR - Obscuring Haze mega weak and not the power level to aim for imo
I've spent my 1 for 1 removal on the sol ring. It's amazing. I've had people scoop to that play because they relied on sol ring too much and didn't have enough lands to do anything else. If you can snipe it turn 1 or 2, it takes the player from a really good position to dead last. Snipe the sol ring, it's worth it.
It doesn't make the game you're in any better when one player is out immediately. We sit down to play with four players intentionally. The fault is on Sol Ring that that person is out of the game, mind me, and it's a technically correct line. But I'm no happier about it than if someone had mulled down to 4 and then rightclick-conceded before keeping.
Honestly my favorite play includes Spell Piercing/Mental Missteping an early sol ring, grim monolith, or mana crypt... you wanna see someone get salty, then spell pierce a sol ring.
I love Drannith Magistrate because it checks that one player, the one that doesn't play interactions and just do his own stuff and win one turn. It gives player with interactions the time they need to set themselves up and not have to play the police everywhere.
It can be kinda back breaking for some players if played early, you don't keep a hand expecting to not be able to play your Commander. The no removal argument is fine for some cards, but at the end of the day it's a 100 card format.
It can be hard to keep a hand with card draw, ramp and then on top of that, removal. Most of the time, people draw into their removal which isn't always a possibility with Drannith Magistrate on the battlefield. I don't think it's that bad of a card, but I definitely understand why it can be a frustrating card. Also Tomer's argument for making decks not based primarily based around your commander just seems awful lol.
Um...strong, interactive decks tends to win more already over glass cannon decks that can't answer anything opponents do. Going by the "decks that are weaker need more tools" argument, it's actually the glass cannon decks that can sometimes (but very rarely) pop off early that need more tools, not ones already busting out with value and interaction.
Fierce Guardianship should have been limited to what the name implies--guarding one's commander. The fact that it's a general noncreature counterspell makes too OP.
@@MelodiousGroan It honestly depends. I like stax/voltron, aggro, and anti-ramp because it encourages good tempo plays and forces opponents to have good interaction and curves. Commander's focus on all one-card value engines all the time does get old, even when the decks are built well. Sometimes that means my tiny hatebears are gonna get blown up and that's fine. It's not really the fact that the creatures are gone that's salty, it's knowing that people are gonna start tapping out for haymakers and it takes 2-3 cards to combat that, which usually means once the first wipe happens my gameplan's dead in the water. But that's kind of the nature of aggro in MtG in general. You have to accept that or build in a plan B that still works with that plan A.
"Deflecting swat gets cut, because it is not powerful enough". Whaaa :D If you hate extra turns, deflecting swat is like your best tool against them, lol. Card is incredible, especially if you aren't in blue. "Why would I not armageddon if I'm the first person out" Well, because you want them to finish the game quick so you can play another game, instead of waiting for 3 hours? :) Crim, I think you should play Polluted Bonds and Curse of the Restless Dead :)
Richard forgot the "your opponents" part of Cyclonic Rift. No, not everyone spends the next few turns re-setting their board. Some players do, while a completely and totally unphased person is going ahead unimpeded. It is effectively an Insurrection, but for less mana, at least in terms of the actual impact of the spell. Nothing else mattered before this point, you win now because you had mana to cast a spell that didn't get countered.
If your deck can't answer a single creature like Dranith Magistrate, there's a good chance it can't answer any problematic permanents, like Rhystic or seedborn muse.
Aren’t the same things. I have decks that don’t answer rhystic or muse, but can kill their owner (best removal is player removal😎). But Dranith Magistrate makes any original and very weird and narrow and unique deck fall into pieces. The deck that is most fine about Magistrate is CEDH, which runs commander for colours and additional card in hand with a card draw or smh and the rest is counterspells, tutors and just combo off. And I really don’t like that. Leave that to legacy, I want to play unique and unguarantied, but original and theme-based decks. I play the eggs tribal (Naya one) and someone slams this - I guess I don’t do anything meaningful now. I play my Kenrith grouphug and someone plays Magistrate - guess I am out of the game.
@@asmodean7239 if your deck dies to a 2 mana 1/3 you built your deck wrong bottom line. Play more removal so that one cheap creature doesn't kill your entire gameplan.
@@Mr12345pokemon I don't agree. I believe in having spot removal and having answers to things like Ulamog and some enchantment removal. That said the commander format originated with the idea of building around your commander. I may not have my Swords in my hand but it's there. Until I draw it my deck stalls and for some decks shut down in that they can't direct their attention to their strategy and instead have to reroute. I don't like the card, but I do have a full art foil DM xD
Oh, yes, Sure, Just tell the Reaper King deck to run more removal. It's not like Removal is half the deck or anything. Average RK deck on EDH Rec runs 1 card in the 99 able to deal with Dranith without their commander on the field; It runs 30, minimum, that deal with Dranith with commander present.
My old table had a house rule for extra turns that worked for us fairly well. Literally " If you take 3+ extra turns and dont' win the game on the spot, you lose the game for wasting the table's time. " This discourages the "Scuse me while i play solitaire" approach that a lot of those decks have where you're just waiting forever.
Personally Drannith Magistrate is fine. It’s a white card that creates a rule, it’s on flavor and dies to removal. It’s 2021 magic has evolved and removal is everywhere. As for UB, with the changes it isn’t as salt inducing. People alter cards all the time to play with different things. The only salty thing about UB is we don’t have the rest of the My Little Pony cards >~>
I've been saying that for a long time, you need balancing effects or significantly more land-based punishing effects. People say that's not fun, but imo it's much less fun for the entire format to warp around needing to play green in order to compete
I just started this, but I'm assuming the list will be everyone ranking actual salty cards high, Crim the salt player ranking them low and saying "this is normal fair magic as a blue/black player, and then Crim ranking something fair like Farseek really high. I am also going to bet that 90% of these cards will be in every one of Crim's decks
I mean we all know you hate Crim but you could at least hear the guy out before attacking him in the comments. Crim isn’t my favorite member and in the past I disliked him (see old videos and my comments) but I warmed up to him. I also really can respect his ability look at the game not too seriously in terms of getting salty yet still playing to win. Maybe try giving Crim a chance too unless of course being salty over a player is enriching your life somehow.
@@ms.sysbit5511 I don't hate Crim - he's just the spike player at a casual table. And this comment was meant to be fun based on typical Commander Clash interactions. Crim's decks are mostly blue/black spikey cards that draw salt from the table every game, and he enjoys playing to make others salty and then coming in second. I will of course watch the entire podcast (as I always do) but I thought an up front prediction would be fun, given the subject
@@kingfuzzy2 I don't know what that is :P. In my opinion, Crim is the only spike at the table who consistently brings high-power control cards (bordering on cEDH level) to a casual table and is only kept in check by the house ban list
I agree 1000% with Richard about Insurrection. Literally none of these other cards are salty to me personally except for this one card. At least with other big spells or combo finishers you have to have some sort of set up and put forward a game plan, but you can just sit on your ass for 8 turns while other people do stuff, play this one card, and then the game is over. It's not flashy and awesome, Crim, it's braindead and stupid. Ugh, lol. I'm getting heated even just typing this up.
Tomer literally described dranith magistrate as a salty card without calling it salty. Makes the player who plays it get killed, annoys multiple players and doesnt really progress one's own gameplan. I've never seen dranith magistrate played without it completely hosing some poor soul who just wanted to play their commander and didnt top deck removal.
And rest in peace shuts down graveyard decks. So what? Most of my decks still have ways to win without relying solely on my commander, hell my roommate even recently complained about that.
Yep I've seen many games where a player who was Mana screwed to the point they could only cast their low cost commander and no cards in hand but unfortunately magistrate was never removed the whole game and the Manascrewed player cried a lot
@@atk9989 Rest in peace is a salty card for a lot of graveyard players. I personally play soul-guid lantern and other 1 time hate effects. I'm not talking about there power level, rest in peace is better than soul-guide lantern, but soul-guide lantern is far less salty.
But playing more than one land is "against the basic rules of magic". ...Which is totally unlike drawing more than the first card you draw each turn. Watching his gameplay is often really fun, but never would I ever want to see him design a single magic card.
@@qwormuli77 oh I'd hate to be in his playgroup. If he ever gets anywhere near the design room I'd quit magic until the set got cycled into obscurity because he has such a warped perception of "fair and fun"
@@qwormuli77 The fundamental flow of MtG gameplay is surrounding mana, not cards in hand. The limiter to what you can do is mana. Yes, cards in hand are helpful, mana is literally everything.
@@dontmisunderstand6041 The cards you have access to are also a limiter on what you can do. You use mana to play cards, and to play cards you need to draw them first. Mana is not everything, what does having infinite mana accomplish if you don't have any way to spend it? What does having your entire deck in your hand accomplish if you don't have any mana? They are both limiters. There's a reason every deck needs to balance their ramp with card draw.
I’m definitely much more in favor of symmetric effects and would not be sad for a second to see asymmetric effects go away. Why? Symmetric effects require thought and maybe some creativity.
I feel like one of the criterion for your S-tier should be that you hate the card so much that you REFUSE to even play it…THAT is true salt, when you hate a card so much that you won’t even put it in your 99 (or 98). If you are going to complain about someone else playing a card, you had better not be playing it yourself, otherwise you discredit your argument as to why it shouldn’t be played.
@@atk9989 That's fair!! I'm actually not the type of person who is going out of my way to play annoying cards, and I try not to complain when people get me with them, even though they can lessen my enjoyment of the game. My biggest pet peeve is getting blown out by Cyclonic Rift. Something about having to pick up all my cards and having to stare at them, useless in my hand, is so much worse than just having them die. However, if people didn't play annoying cards, I wouldn't have the satisfaction of beating players who play annoying cards, and that's the best part of Magic for me. :p
The real problem with Insurrection is that it's more "That was an interesting game you were having, but who's going to die now? No I can't kill everyone, but you, yes you, you can't play with us anymore."
When I first started playing Commander I had someone pull me aside to explain that "land destruction isn't allowed" talking about single-target, not even Armageddon. He then combo'd out with Thassas Oracle against precons after a 20 minute turn tapping/untapping things and now I struggle to remember why I gave their opinion half a second of thought. Salty over an extremely minor thing while doing that to other fresh players.
Fierce guardianship is definitely a S for me not because it counters whatever I’m trying to do that’s fine. But it counters me trying to stop them from just comboing off. It’s a free layer of protection for their degenerate combos. If I hold up mana on turn 3 I don’t want to lose because my opponent just gets to counter it for free. There is no counter play other than just running my own but that also forces me to run a small selection of cheap commanders to try to get it online before my opponent goes off.
@@Gingerbreadley they are but i wish i was joking, a player in my lgs had a thassa's oracle win con, guy across from him played Mnemonic nexus to basically tell him no winning with that. Thassa's player did fierce guardianship (don't remember the commander) nexus player did fierce guardianship, guy next to the thassa player fierce guardianship last player fierce guardian ship. it was amazing funny all at the same time
So it's kinda like the case of the Modern banning of Mental Misstep. That card was banned not bc it's a free spell that can do something, it's banned bc it's a free spell that can COUNTER ITSELF! The envioronment then was so boring that everybody ran multiple copies of it bc they HAD TO. Another similar one in Modern being everybody ran 4 copies of Leyline of the Void during the infamous Hogaak summer, bc Leyline's a freebie so why not? COLOR and COST are the two fundamental guardians in MTG that keep cards from being degenarate, but a free spell bypasses BOTH of them.
My only problem with Drannith Magistrate is that it was created to hose companions and then it didn't. Other than that I appreciate it's existence and run removal so I can use my commander
this is weird... first time I hear a podcast where all of the participants make actually good points that do not necessarily attack other opinion and I agree with all of them
@@Naturessightsandsounds7040 They are attacking Tomers objective points, not Tomer himself for how much he subjectively believes in his opinion. The first is key to what a debate is in the first place, and is totally fair and not a personal thing. They also make good points, and allow him a fair chance to argue back against them. Again: It's a great podcast for resonable, well-argued debates.
I agree. Sometimes I think Richard is either (1) just a bit of a troll, or is (2) a bit smug and genuinely truly thinks he knows better than everyone else. ...but then I hear him make a very good argument (like for Fierce Guardianship) that completely changes my own opinion, and I realise it might be a mix of (1), (2) and another (3) - that being: he might troll or genuinely believe his bad arguments sometimes, but he also sometimes has a genuinely amazing way at looking at things in a fairer, more objective light.
The discussion about Armageddon.... I've never understood why that card is legal but Balance is banned. I will die on the hill of saying white in commander needs more Balance effects to pull back the blue and black decks that are drawing out their whole decks, and the green decks that are ramping way ahead of everyone else.
Because Balance is not fair. Armageddon hits everyone equally. Balance only hits: lands, creatures, and hands. You’ll notice whole card types are missing on this 2 drop sorcery. You can easily break parity with it and rocks then essentially Mindslicer + Armageddon the table for 2 mana. That’s why.
@@ms.sysbit5511 You can do something very similar with Armageddon. You're blowing up all lands, but you can break parity if you have a lot of rocks. So, what's your point there? Regardless, if Armageddon blows up ALL lands and is okay, and Jokulhops blows up all everything and is okay, and now Worldfire which exiles everything and sets everyone's life total to 1 is now okay, why is the card that sets everyone to whoever is furthest behind banned? This is the answer white needs right now in the current environment where land ramp and card draw are going unchecked, but Wizards won't give either to white. Let them keep denying these abilities to white, but let white also stop others from gaining any advantage. White is the color of "fair" magic, and bringing everyone to parity is the way to (forgive the pun) balance things out. And it basically has to be on a sorcery since the other versions, the Magus and the suspended spell, allow your opponents to punish you for the wrath before you use it, which is why they don't really get played.
@@anthonydelfino6171 I can envision fair balance effects but Balance is not it. This is 2 mana and hits lands, hands, and creatures. No way in heck ever. Armageddon is 4 mana and you need to break its parity with another effect (minimum of 2 mana). Balance does this in one card for way lower mana.
@@ms.sysbit5511 Being cheap and powerful isn't a reason to keep it banned, else we'd have banned fast mana and cards like swords to plowshares or force of will ages ago. Two mana when it doesn't wipe the whole board, doesn't destroy all lands, and unless someone has 0 cards in hand, doesn't force everyone to discard all cards in hand is fair when compared to other effects that do destroy all of one of those things. Everyone still gets to keep the best of what they have, so it's not going to answer threats that a wrath effect would take care of, people get to keep their best lands, and likely every color of mana, so it's not going to do much there either. Really the only rough part is when the white player says to go down to whoever has the fewest cards in hand, that's probably the person who cast it. But even then, that's still "fair" since no one is getting ahead
Their argument isn't that 3 people can't remove it, it's when 1 plays it and 2 don't care leaving the last player Fd when they care the most but can't find removal and the other 2 won't help. I usually run more interaction in my decks than most solely because I got so tired of that exact scenario I'm a durdly muldrotha deck and someone t2 rest in peaces me I spent the next 9 turns not being able to play cuz no one else cared about their gy
@@supranova7594 yea, and that's the problem when you play a narrow style deck. If you don't like it then play a more rounded deck. I currently have 15 decks and almost all of them do very different things so if someone has a single deck that hard counters one of mine then I just play one that can still play through it without counting theirs.
They already have mechanics rewarding playing your commander, such as lieutenant. Free spells ain't it, especially when they're so staple-y and expensive.
@@TVVOSTEP The blue and red ones are $40, the black is $20, and the rest are situational enough that people don't run them anyways. Regardless, $20/card is NOT cheap. There's a reason people complain about how unaffordable a good mana base is.
If Drannith Magistrate is making you salty above a B tier, then you failed in your deckbuilding. A fundemantal idea of good deckbuilding is having more than 1 win-con and having multiple answers to cards that are hampering your game plan.
That's not the point. It's just a total hate card, possibly miserable for some players. Therefore, it is a salty card. Agree with Seth and Richard, it's an A. (talking from a casual perspective)
Yes and imagine telling your friend about this format, having him build and facedown a D magistrate on turn two and his deck has 4 removal spells and none in hand, congratulations your friend will probably never play commander again.
Also, there is a difference between frustration/salt and the ability to answer a thing, even though the two often go hand in hand. You can begrudge a thing forcing you to spend your time or spells answering or playing around it. It takes away from the time spent doing the thing you came there to do, which feels bad, sometimes whether or not it's reasonable. I dislike DM (B or B+?) because I like playing decks built around the restriction of the commander, and DM makes me jump through hoops to even play a normal fair game. Likewise, I dislike decks that want to be archenemy or come fast out of the gate and never let up; even if I have enough interaction to keep them at bay, I'm not getting to play the game I came to until they've burned out, even if policing is the correct way to answer them.
@@erfunk I agree with that sentiment, for me it’s not ever that these things aren’t easy to deal with regarding your deck building, but for me it depends on how open the playgroup is, for example: I built a storm deck and my friend knew that and put in a turn 2 dampening sphere, I had one artifact removal spell in my deck, after that game I adjusted it and its fine, BUT, had he been open with explaining his deck will Stax me, I would have been prepared, so like if you are playing with D magistrate just tell your playgroup ahead of time because such things can really kill the format unless your playgroup has established a meta
To Crim's point about the free cycle, what about cards with lieutenant? Or the anthem that gives +X/+X for each time you've cast your commander? These incentivize casting commanders without being the level of bullshit that is fierce guardianship
About the green land ramp, there has been a cool addition recently with confounding conundrum, with they added more similar effects that actually gives answers to this kind of ramp
You guys made me chuckle right at the beginning! Of course it's the ultimate blue player (Crim) and the "I'd rather draw 2 cards than not die horribly before my next turn" player (our best friend, who'reprobablybetterknownas...) that didn't hate Rhystic Study at all! 🤣
With the expanded universe cards, id never be mad at someone playing them at my table or even say anything to them about it, but man would it sour my mood and disengage me from play so fast. I want ad block for irl so bad.
I'm not hating anyone personally for them, but none of the outside ip -cards are welcome in our table. As a community we can make a clear stance against these kinds of products and one way of doing that is discourage people from getting them.
Drannith Magistrate is like placing Ward on the opponents commanders, except instead of mana, or life, you pay with a removal spell. I think it's totally not gatekeeping to force your opponents to have creature removal. It's the same as not caring if someone is getting screwed over because they don't play enough lands or any mana rocks. Removal is part of a functional deck.
I see this argument a lot and my issue with it is, it's a 100 card singleton format. I regularly run 10+ pieces of interaction and a few board wipes, but sometimes go entire games without seeing any of it. If you're the only one affected by the Magistrate, you're kinda SOL at that point. Doubly so if your deck relies on your commander, or God forbid you're a Voltron deck. You can't always have an answer for everything, and it's pretty feel bad in those situations. Not like S teir levels of salt, but it definitely takes away from the enjoyment.
Not commander argument. That is legacy/modern/standard argument. I have removal in my Edgar Markov deck, but is vampire themed removal, because I only play cards that are on theme and on flavour, which means that I don’t have a lot of removal. And I refuse to break flavour for the sake of universality. I did not come to this format to have answers for everything.
@@NeoGamma I mean, that happens sometimes. Sometimes you're the only one affected by a Grafdigger's Cage or you're playing storm and no one else is particularly bothered by the Ethersworn Canonist. You either need to find, an answer, make deal with someone who has an answer, or lose. Sometimes you just get hosed.
@@asmodean7239 and I refuse to break flavour for the sake of being nice. My Liesa tax is deffinied by its taxes and stax. So feel free to use your vampire-themed removal when it eventuyally comes to your hand :)
@@MrPFMneto I am totally fine with deck being powerful against certain decks due to theme restrictions and powers. I am fine with taxes tribal. So if you wreck me with it, it’s fine. I am not a hypocrite, unlike some others.
Totally agree with crim I'm so tired of green land ramp. Untouchable ramp is disgusting and the reason green is considered the best color in EDH Meanwhile non green decks lose ALL their ramp to mass artifact removal and nobody gets salty over that but if someone touches a land its massively salty
It's a small creature, if you can't deal with it, that's on you. Besides, all decks have an Achilles' Heel. If you're too all in on your commander, that's yours. If you know that and didn't plan for the hate, that's entirely your fault.
@@Evyon25121 true, but I just don't see how this is a fun card, or adds anything interesting to the game. It's a potential very bad experience, lets say a newer player who built around their commander. This is for casual of course, and not cEDH. I wouldn't be extremely impressed if someone plays this, more like why did you put this uninteresting potential hate-card into your deck, can't say I'm impressed. I wouldn't personally be very salty, I just don't see the point for this include in casual play.
@@hermodnitter3902 There are different levels of casual play, and this card is totally acceptable at anything higher than maybe pre-con level. Otherwise, this is the same level of hate as a normal graveyard hate spell imo.
As Commander and legendary creatures gets more and more pushed (Golos, Chulane, etc.), I think cards like Drannith Magistrate are needed to combat these powerful commanders.
The problem is that Drannith Magistrate punishes everyone else way more than the most efficiency-minded power players, because they're not the ones with lots of cheap removal and decks that can keep their commander protected. The only way to deal with stupidly pushed commanders is rule zero or outright bannings, because hating out commanders in general screws everyone as much or more than the person running the hypothetical bullshit Golos pile.
I actually see where Crim is coming from with ramp being overly powerful. It’s definitely one of the reasons green is the second most if not the most powerful color
Crim is spot on with extra turn spells. Extra turns spend most of your mana for miniscule advantage. Extra turns are almost always by definition durdling. It's not that it's not effective, but other methods accomplish the same thing while respecting everyone else's time more.
The walking dead cards absolutely and fundamentally change Magic for me. The distribution was it's own terrible issue, but at least they have changed that. But I feel the other universes break immersion, and make Wizards lazy in design. They want a 40k world? Make one. They have so many planes CLEARLY based on other IP, but they are NEW and UNIQUE. Could you imagine if Eldraine had literally been a Disney set? Now that they're going to include actually Magic version, I'm perfectly fine with the new ones. Walking Dead will always upset me.
@@mimmoq7960 ah, ok that wasn't readily clear, but I'm glad to hear it. That is a huge fix for my concerns. Like, I enjoyed the Godzilla treatments for Ikoria. This feels like the reverse of that, but I'm ok with it.
He was pretty off about Dranith Magistrate, though. Some decks just do revolve entirely around their commander because that is the nature of the format. Sometimes this card will come down and you can't play the game and you will feel salty about it. It's not OP and is an effective tool, but this is about salt inducing, and it can definitely create some salty scenarios.
@@totakekeslider3835 If your entire deck revolves around your commander, you're an idiot. The commander should only ever be a great piece in the deck, not the literal only piece in the deck that lets you play.
The problem I have with this is every one has cards that they find salty, you can't iron out every single card and play around that. its different for every one. I also have cards that I dont like, but I have had to learn to deal with them. It is really tricky when there is an additional, unofficial/soft ban list, because now it is just subjective guide lines that are impossible to follow.
Would be nice if community had more game theory knowledge and understood at the end of the day how similar a lot of these cards are and why certain effects exist to balance the game. This same lack of knowledge is what lends support to wizards printing cards that are actually broken like drannith magistrate. Which is a fine ability if it were symmetrical, but to have no deck building punishment (easy mode for sprouting Hasbro cash crops) is not cool and I hope more people will come to realize this before it's endemic.
The problem is you can not make everyone happy thats why after starting some what casual I moved more towards cedh. Everyone knows ur coming out guns blazing there isnt this wierd awkard tension if you counter someone or blow up all the lands. It is agreed upon before the game even starts that ur all out here to play as optimal as you can.
Seth when asked if he'd disenchant a sol ring: "It's tough because then you're down a card" Seth when someone plays a bounceland: eyes light up and he starts thinking of tutoring strip mines >.>
If you have an island (1 card) and then bounce it you your hand (-1 card to sum of 0 cards) if I (thinking through the perspective if I was probably better known as saffronolive) strip mine you (I lose 1 card) you lose 2 mana and therein lose 2 cards and so through freudian diagletics I lose 1 but you lose 2 so I technically gain 1 card so it's plus for me.
yeah disenchant solring you're down 2 mana 1 card for their 1 mana 1 card but strip mining a bounceland is 1 land 1 landdrop vs 1 land 2 landdrops which is advantageous to you.
Drannith is awful for the reasons Richard mentioned. We build decks around our commanders and in casual we arent just playing our commander and just winning because of it. Usually the deck is designed to do cool things with it tho advance towards a win. Plus you can remove most commanders.
For someone who has been playing commander as long he has you'd think he'd remember when the tuck rule existed and everyone's decks were super boring because they just played the best cards in their color because they were terrified of relying on a commander. If Tomer wants to play 100 card singleton with no commander that format already exists, it's called Highlander lol.
Eh. Most commanders have some alternatives that give you redundant copies of their effect, even if they're not as powerful. Yuriko has stuff like Ingenious Infiltrator to replicate the card advantage Yuriko provides. Teysa Karlov can play Anointed Procession to double up on the tokens that your creatures are making. That's just two examples, but I guarantee that if you picked a random commander that there are multiple cards in their colors that at least approximate their abilities.
This is a dishonest thing to say. To say that commanders getting tucked is akin to a nevermore effect being an interactible permanent on the field is disingenuous in my opinion. To steelman the argument, I would list nevermore as VERY difficult to interact with in B/R and then point to Blast Zone or nev's disk as sad answers. From there, politics is also your only option at that point, which is very much in-line with the ever-ephemeral "spirit of commander". But you are forced have to do that in light of no other alternatives, which sucks. Maybe "nevermore" is something you should ask about in rule 0, but to ask that about a one-of 1/3 creature which dies to the second mode of abrade isn't something I can relate to in any capacity.
"Do you pay the 1?" cards - B - it is a tad bit salty, but I do run them in many decks because of how good they are. It slows the game if the table is responsible or pulls someone way ahead if no one pays for them. But so does every tax strategy. It's a valid way of playing magic. Opp Agent - A - card is too pushed. At casual tables it doesn't matter as much because budget doesn't search as much, but then it strictly punishes green. Would be fine with it if it was sorcery speed or didn't allow for the card to be played. Extra turns - S - when you chain them together. Nothing fun about that. My Niv-Mizzet deck does this, I take it out only with people knowing what they're going into. Counterspells (Fierce guardianship) - C - counters are a stain on magic, but blue has to exist in the color pie so they need to have a way to interact with the game. Should probably be a bit salty about the free ones, but it's 1for1 in a game with 2 other players. You're already at a resource disadvantage. Mass card draw denial - A - these cards would be fine as a safety valve, but they are used offensively which makes them salt inducing as the table loses all gas and the control player has no threat to finish it quickly. Mass land destruction - A - same as above - if it's done in a way where the caster has a dominating position and finishes the game quickly whatever. It's salty only if it unnecessarily drags the game to a halt. Cyclonic - C - it is very strong card and can have unfun playpatterns built around it, but blue needs a "boardwipe" too. Ramp - D - more resources = more magic to be had. Crim is salty because he's manascrewed so often. Magistrate - B - locking out commanders out of the game is not fun. But then again sometimes you run into an entire deck that negates your's. You can rule 0 talk about taking out a single card, it's harder to have someone stop playing a good deck only because it's a hard counter to yours. Sol ring - D - more resources = more magic to be had. In casual you can't abuse it as much as in cEDH so all it does is painting a target on you and will get you killed early or you run off with the game in a boring one sided way - I started taking them out of my decks a long long time ago. Insurrection - A - I'm with Richard on this one - anti-climatic "I win the game" cards that have nothing to do with whatever happened up until that point in the game are not fun. Secret lair cards - C - I will be slightly judgemental about it, because I don't like the concept of the product, but whatever - if you like it and you can afford it play whatever version of cards you want.
The problem I have with ramp is greens ramp, because green gets basic lands and there is little to no interaction with them, and the only cards that interact easily is mass land destruction which is frowned on because the one or two people that troll with them.
Sunder and other effects should be definitely more run it's only going to take the green player 2 turns to pull ahead and the no green players 3+ turns anyhoo mld ain't a bad thing it's healthy for the format. Mass land exile I won't abide by.
Your takes are bad. More resources aren’t good. More resources make your turn take longer. If everyone just played a land and X or Y for their turn the game would be x2 as fast, and it would be big monsters/spells swimming haymakers -how it used to be. “One turn wins” like Insurrection is straw man and effectively Craterhoof or dual caster mage/manageyser/twin caster or a Sanguine Bond+Exquisite Blood. Aetherflux Reservoir infinite life gain combo. They’re all 1/2 piece card combo that just happen and finish the game the same way.
@@andrewhetes1623 These are opinions man- you may have different expiriences and/or expectations from commander than someone else. Doesn't make my take any less good than yours. From my expirience 1 spell a turn would end up in a boardstall as opposed someone accelerating their gameplan with multiple spells and pulling ahead due to ramp. What about it is a straw man? The win cons where you top deck a card that makes you go "oops I win the game" are all terrible - not because they win you the game - they do that very well, my point is they feel cheap and undeserved and invalidate anything that happened up to that point in the game. Again this is a personal opinion, but I stand by it - took all curiosity effects out of Niv-Mizzet after a single win like that cuz it felt stupid to just announce "I win" because noone happened to have a counterspell/removal.
Drannith Magistrate 100% is salt inducing. Yes, it hits oppressive commanders, but that doesn’t mean it’s not frustrating. 90% of players build their entire deck with their commander in mind. I’ve seen people play strictly worse effects just because they have tribal themes attached. It’s a casual format, people are playing their sweet alternate art commander or a commander with an interesting and unique effect. The card probably isn’t to good, but it definitely is a salt inducing effect. I think if they made cards that gave you a benefit from when your opponents cast their commanders that would be much healthier, or at least something punishing them from casting it. Preventing someone from doing the core aspect of Commander is just too salt inducing.
@@jamesgratz4771 I don't think net decking is the issue. It's copy pasting lists. Net decking still gives you room for your own flare in the deck and pet cards. Sometimes you need a starting point to help Copy pasting lists is just grabbing the best stuff for that deck and putting it in with no thought from the player
@@bluedog4248 net decking as the vast majority of the community defines it is copy pasting a list off the internet in order to win. Copying a deck of the internet and making changes is not net decking. Copying a deck off the internet and making no changes but only because you like the idea, theme, playstyle, etc. is not net decking. Copying a deck off the internet because it wins is net decking.
I don't understand what distinguishes Extra Turn spells from other controlling effects that prevent your opponents from playing the game in Crim's mind. Crim often actively pursues stopping others from playing the game, which is a valid playstyle, but dislikes Extra Turns because they do exactly that. I feel like if Time Warp read "Until your next turn, your opponents skip their beginning, precombat main, combat, postcombat main, and ending phases." Crim would love it. Hullbreacher/Notion Thief/Narset are much worse to play against, but Crim is all for that.
There can be a real difference. Even stax decks typically have multiple pieces that take time and resources to put in place before a full lock happens. Extra turns on the other hand feel like one card combos where 3 other people are immediately locked out of playing barring any mana, artifacts, etc. still available that can be used. To clarify, this is in the case of chaining multiple extra turns. A single extra turn here and there isn't that much of a deal. But once you start chaining, you enter that realm of "I'm playing all the magic"
Did you not listen to crims side on that? He likes notion thief, narset, and hullbreacher to punish the draw 50 cards decks. And very specifically does not play wheels because he hates wheels.
Lol sugar water… really brings me back to that first scene in Men In Black where the guy has the alien parasite inside him and yells at the lady for sugar water in quite possibly the most hilarious voice ever
My worst experiences are against combo decks and supressive control decks. The first either does nothing or ends the game. There is close to no relevant interaction with them. (Except counter their combo piece, but deals have no result.) If there is a board wipe each second turn, because there are two control player on the table, it's feels like Armageddon. You can do things, but it doesn't matter. If you play a creature deck, you wait two hours until another player ends the game. I play razia's purification in my tribal tribal deck. If I have UrDragon on the field, it is just a finisher. Compared to other things which everybody seems to accept, it's weird to me what are the "no goes". My personal guideline is: "Make sure everybody can have fun aswell." People came to play magic cards don't prevent that part! It doesn't matter if it's Winter Orb, mass land destruction, 30 counterspells, 15 boardwips or Niv-Mizzet combo. Don't make your playpartner hate the time with you, or you might be alone soon.
I think Drannith Magistrate is fine. I really don't see it any worse than Song of the Dryads, Oubliette, Darksteel Mutation, etc. Actually, I think it's LESS salty because it shuts everyone down, not just that one player, so it's more likely to get that removal from someone. Single-target commander shutdowns are way more brutal! Slap that Darksteel Mutation on the mono-black commander... Let's see how long it takes for him to draw a Feed the Swarm... And none of the other players will remove it FOR him. Just because there are other cards that hate commanders more isn't a great argument, but I see Drannith Magistrate as a stalling card that also hates specific strategies and wincons. It's extremely easy to remove, and every other opponent will (usually) want to remove it, so it will almost certainly get removed at some point. I definitely see the argument about cards that hate on commanders being cast... But don't we already have Meddling Mage, Gideon's Intervention, Nevermore, and Voidstone Gargoyle? And like I said before, I personally thinking hating on ONE person's commander is much saltier. (but, again, not a great argument) So down a different avenue about the direction of Commander - We have cards now that give FREE value for controlling your commander. (many of which were mentioned here) So doesn't it make sense that we'd have cards that prevent players from getting that value for free?
Drannith Magistrate is a feels bad card. I run a decent amount of interaction in all my decks. Usually 12 cards in my deck can interact. Usually like a 4/8 split between board wipes and spot removal. I think that’s a lot of interaction for a deck to run without starting to interfere with your decks plan. I was running a Phylath deck and seen a drannith magistrate. I just didn’t really do anything that game until that player was dead. I didn’t draw into my alternative plans or interaction. That was a boring game for me for a lot of turns. Lol
@James Black people’s argument is run more ways to deal with Magistrate. Point of my story is that you can run enough interaction without weakening your decks plan and it still won’t help you. If I had added more interaction, my deck wouldn’t be doing its thing anymore.
I understand where Crim is coming from with ramp, because I don't get why GREEN one color out of FIVE has the most affinity for LANDS. You know, lands, that thing that's so vitally important to play the game because it determines how many spells you cast, the potential power of the spell (due to cmc). And worse yet, we are highly against their destruction, even though some people will not even think about blowing up my signet! "I will pop your signet because it gives +1 mana and that's unfair. I'll play rampant growth getting me an additional mana." Like why?! WHHHYYY?! Either normalize land destruction or give green a better gimmick. Or maybe even more tutor hate or balance effects. And in regards to people who think I'm targeting green. Yes. Yes I am. Because of green, other decks are forced to run fast mana to beat out green before they start turning things sideways.
Oh and in regards what makes me salty. Cards that reward players for just playing the game. Landfall, I was always going to want to play a land for turn. Thank you for allowing me to generate value via base game mechanics. Or, pacts and or forces. Yes. I will exile a card from my hand with the same name to play my card. And you would have never been able to for-see it because I tapped out earlier. Fair and balanced gameplay. Not skill hostile at all in commander. I TOTALLY want to thoughtseize one of my three opponents. Not a waste at all, and I'm totally opening it the same time they have their free spell.
rofl i just got home from my weekly commander group where i got hated for resolving an armageddon finding this salty tier list video like it was destiny. i closed out the game that already took about 45min 5min after armageddon, but the people just couldn´t stand making nothing but watch and breath for 3 very fast turncycles. really loved to hear your arguments for and against it ♥
To be fair, I understand Tomer's salt about Study in a Seth playgroup. I would definitely focus on Seth over the Study player though. Nothing tilts me like poor play that creates lopsided games.
Love the conversations the Crew has, this one certainly being no exception. I’m a big fan of allowing quality discussions to be as long as they need to be, and it that happens to exceed an hour or whatever the typical runtime is, all good 🙂
@@Frostgiantbutsmall every color (except green) has an abundance of creature removal especially for 3 toughness creatures. Only a couple have meaningful removal for enchantments. That’s not an even comparison but the removal argument is trash anyway. Removal existing doesn’t mean just everything is fine.
@@Frostgiantbutsmall play more diverse removal, its out there, there are ways to do it, regardless my point stands; using the same argument for a card you aren’t salty about that someone uses for a card that you are…just drives home the point that the entire premise of this episode is entirely emotionally driven.
@@atk9989 but those aren’t particularly playable and I didn’t feel like that imo pointless tangent. Playable green removal for creatures is basically Beast Within which is fine imo.
Opp agent isnt just a 2 for 1 its a fucking 4 for 1. You get a creature, you stop a tutor, you get a tutor, and you get to see the persons hand of the tutor you stopped and stole since you control them during the search you have access to that information.
Oddly enough, Crim's take on Fierce Guardianship is turning me around on the card. I don't want to see more of these made, but it's true that the white and blue from this cycle help me get out my commander and at least keep it for a round.
On the topic of drannith magistrate I'll say this. In my early commander days I was very much an all or nothing commander player. If my commander wasn't on the battlefield I wasn't really doing anything or enjoying my deck. My playgroup is fairly removal heavy, which was super frustrating, but I started looking at deck building differently. My commander became a big supporter of my game plan, but they were no longer the linchpin holding the deck together. I think that decks that are unable to deal with drannith magistrate are probably not well equipped to deal with any problem permanent. Yes, maybe it hurts one player more than others. The immortal sun shuts down planeswalker commanders, but I don't hear arguments against it. And at the end of the day, if your deck cannot function without the commander, that's a deck building problem
But still, even if a deck is capable of dealing with it, often you just don't have the right answer available. The problem with this card is that it is just a hate card, nothing less, nothing more. Of course it is salt inducing. Why not do something constructive with your deck instead of putting this card into the 99. It's not like I get extremely impressed if someone plays it and think wow that's a really cool play right there!
1:11:00 For the point about Drannith Magistrate, isn't the whole point of Commander is to be a casual format where you build around this one creature that you always have access to? You don't always wanna have a back up plan and/or be the most efficient. Like with Voltron it hurts that entire archetype, which already isn't very good. If your commander doesn't matter to your overall deck strategy then why play Commander at all? It's not the most salt educing card for sure, but I would say its definitely still pretty annoying, more so than a D rank anyways.
@@kingfuzzy2 I suppose different people's enjoyment come from different places. It just seems weird for them to want more cards that shut down an integral part of the format, but that's just me I guess.
Crim: "The cheating of rules by playing more than one land is horrible, and dumb!" Also Crim: "Stealing someone's cards and countering their spells so that they can't play the game = fun. Fierce Guardianship (which cheats on reources) is fine." What are you smoking, sir?
Claiming "gatekeeping" as an argument against Dranith Magistrate is the dumbest non-argument I've heard in a while. If your deck is built poorly that you completely fold to a 1/3 because your commander is not on the field, it is narrow and bad deck building and that is on you. It is not "gatekeeping," for there to be a defense against stupid commanders that win the game on the spot. The only thing dumb about Magistrate is that it is asymmetrical.
Is a 3 mana Negate bad? This card is busted bc it's too easy to pitch, and only being 1 mana more expensive than Negate is its sole downside! If it costs 5 mana like FoW then it'll be at least one tier lower imo.
So cards in general don't make me salty. If I agree to play Yugioh, I agree to play a combo focus hyperspeed game. If I agree to play Cardfight Vanguard, I agree to play with the swingy random trigger mechanic. If I agree to play Magic the Gathering, I agree to play with every card that is legal in that format, whether it is "fun" or not. So blow up my lands, make me pay the one. Those are the rules of the game we all agreed to play. What makes me salty is the players. People that hold ridiculous grudges across multiple games, or people that troll. We all agreed to play a game to the best of our ability, and that should be what everyone aims to do. And when they don't, that's when the game starts getting annoying.
Crim: "Playing one land a turn is a basic rule of magic and shouldn't be broken.
Also Crim: "Drawing 10 cards a turn is fine. "
It's just kind of obnoxious at this point. I get that it's his thing but when it's the exact same thing every podcast it gets to be too much
That's not Crim at all. He's the most pro-Hullbreacher guy I've seen.
@@MakeVarahHappen The problem is that blue and black can do that, but he will never complain about either
@@MakeVarahHappen People are always a bit disingenuous when it comes to Commander, popping off on turn 3-4 consistently due to the sheer amount of ramp is cool vroom vroom, wait incremental advantage over a medium to long term period unless they answer it, fuck that I don't wanna answer anything. I can be disingenuous too. Hullbreacher isn't cool because of what it can do in one turn, but ultimately it was an answer to greedy players.
@@Spaced92 People don't pop off turn 3 because of sorcery speed land ramp land ramp, sorry to burst your bubble. That's from deploying and protecting your combos, which quite rarely use Rampant Growths, the last I heard.
Sometimes Crim sounds like a wise Mtg master, and sometimes he says "oppo agent ar four mana should let you cast a spell for free". The duality of man
Wisdom does not equate to intelligence
I have watched countless hours and never once did Crim sound wise to me. I would even go further and argue that there was no point at which Crim didn't sound like a complete moron to me. I mean he put kodamas reach in the salt list. Why is he even allowed to speak?
@@keep7smiling that's a little much man. Chill with the rudeness.
@@keep7smiling Because a card being "salty" is subjective. Take a chill pill
@@keep7smiling because seeing a land that taps for Green is salt inducing all on its own, but to see that mana spent for a green card, that’s a step too far
Firing and re-hiring Tomer every other week must be a nightmare for the HR
They just fire and re-hire HR every other week so they have no problem
I can’t wait for Crim to Name rampant growth and everyone else to name every card in Crims deck.
Crim is the definition of a salt player!
you have great premonition
You got Scry 3 when you ETB
I didn't realize how much crim hated Green until he went after all land ramp, well said sir 👏👏
Ngl really dislike Crim. Definition of a blue simp. Blue and black he just creams for and hates green no matter what card if it's green he hates it. Rhystic is fine to him and ramp is broken??? So stupid
green has tricked everybody into believing that ramp is fine and land destruction is poor sportsmanship.
And that is why I always have a spare land destruction to switch into decks if I'm gonna go against green. If your allowed to ramp and get 6 or 7 lands in one turn, I have the right to remove those 6-7 lands in one turn.
True that. Preach!!!
@@singularleaf3895 And that's why I always run a Bane of Progress to answer that blue player with 17 mana rocks on his field. It all comes out in the end. I love MLD because I'm a selesnya mage. You ramp out to an insane degree play Armageddon holding up mana for Reshape the Earth. Just kidding that's magical Christmas land.
Also it's a viable and cool way to win with Mono white mono red and boros which need the most help anyway (outside of a few spicey mono red commanders)
@@singularleaf3895 I mean yeah but if you are going to look at everyone's decks before you choose one it's kinda a dick move.
Choose your deck before seeing what other people chose
Tomer's face when Seth said "have you tried not paying for it" was priceless lmao
4:49
Crim: Having more than 1 land per turn breaks the rules of magic
Also Crim: Free spells and drawing an insane amount of cards is fine.
That's what the Hullbreacher is for.
I always find it funny the extreme lengths he’ll go to say something like hullbreacher is even comparable to ramp
I think he would be better off play Hearthstone...
Can you tell he mostly plays blue
The duality of man...
How it top tier ‘S’ and not either ‘S-alt’ or just ‘Na’
My biggest regret of the week
I wanded to make a joke about sodium...
But then I thought: Na, nobody would understand it. :)
S-odium
@@ComfyDents what do you do with a dead chemist? You barium.
@@arghanothername if you can't helium or curium, you barium!
I feel like with fierce guardianship a big thing is it has no downside. The other free counter spells have a cost to be free, a downside. Fierce guardianship has no punishment for tapping out and playing it. No card discarded or exiled, no mana to pay or lose the game, just a free negate.
I feel like it has a variable downside. The higher cost your commander the later it becomes free. It also doesn’t protect your commander on the stack or creature etb destroys, not that there are tons of those. Casting a Nicol Bolas for 8 and getting it essence scattered can just lock you into a loss.
"Haha just play removal bro then their fierce guardianship wobt be free"
The problem with this is the commander clause is not a downside it's a condition that is fairly easy to meet. Also the amount of times you're fine with a 3 mana negate is fairly large and if you're at the point of the game where youre commander is to expensive you can probably afford to keep 3 mana up. It's not even powerful enough to be banned it just shouldn't have been printed.
Good point while I think the effect is fine, to many decks abuse it & have access to it constantly even after it’s cast Having it exile itself after it resolves could have made it way more balanced IMO
Guardianship, by its name alone, should be "Counter target spell or ability that targets a permanent you control."
@@shinsua_ i agree with that, should protect your spell on the stack or a permanent. If it was free while protecting your commander it would be way less op
I really want to see the crew play a 'No Ramp Week' and see how it goes. Genuinely curious.
Yes please daddy
And then they have to stay in colors that normally would play a lot of ramp to see a difference.
pretty much just check out the ''we play mythics only'' episode lol
No one would play any big creatures at all
@@baconsir1159 can still play ghalta probably, i can imagine a deck that uses a bunch of Premium statted creatures without ramp
and the question becomes, how many of these cards do you hate to play against, but then put into your own decks?
Good question
Tell us how we should play edh go ahead you know better than everyone right.
id be surprised if anyone knew how to play magic in my experience theres moments where players have forgotten what colour an island or forest taps for and have lost the game because of that loss of insight
@@Naturessightsandsounds7040 woah why so salty man
@@Naturessightsandsounds7040 i think they are saying, if you hate them and then put them in your decks your then you don't hate them that much. They aren't saying they know better. No need to get salty
Aven Mindcensor turns a Demonic Tutor into an Impulse. Opposition Agent is a three-for-one:
- A creature
- Stops a tutor
- Gives you a tutor
(Aven Mindcensor is also a creature.)
Oppo agent allows you to see the enemy's hand, face down creatures, etc... i play oppo agent,i love it
This is my first podcast I've watched of this channel, and my main takeaway is that Crim is certifiably insane.
He is. Blue simp that ignores reality because he likes his broken shit and hates stuff that answers it
He is
Richard can also be up there
Same. That mana ramp segment was so cringe.
Tomer always speaks facts
Crim either has the best or the worst takes
Seth's assessment of Insurrection is spot on. At least you ARE dead, vs I WIN, or spin wheels till everyone quits.
Oh, yeah. Whenever someone resolves an eight mana value sorcery to take advantage of the wider board state to win, I'd say it was a good game played. I find it difficult to understand how one could get salty about that, outside of bringing it into a power level 2 or so meme game, but even there the more salty cards would be worse.
@@qwormuli77 Because nothing that happened in the game mattered. It feels like a waste of time rather than a game being played. It's the same reason Worldfire was banned. Not because it was good, but because it entirely invalidates everything. The rest of the game might as well not have happened.
@@dontmisunderstand6041 Insurrection doesn't invalidate the rest of the game, it depends on the rest of the game and a large, slow board presence. On a smaller boardstate it acts as a political removal tool, boardwipe with a plus (W/a sac outlet) or an elimination against the most threatening player.
That works as a reason sometimes and you might have heard of it before to repeat now, but not now, on this card.
@@qwormuli77 Ok, sure, yes, in the extremely niche case where all 4 players in a game of commander are playing mono-removal or board wipe tribal, it's theoretically possible for insurrection to not be an automatic and undeserved win for the player who cast it that invalidates quite literally everything that happened before. In that kind of scenario though, it's not getting cast in the first place, and even if the idiot did cast it, it wouldn't resolve. You don't cast spells that read "win the game or do absolutely nothing" unless you're in the situation where it actually does that.
Look, I get that you've never played a game of Magic The Gathering before and just want to participate. Try not to embarrass yourself too much with that ignorance though.
I find it funny that Tomer doesn't mind Drannith Magistrate because of the entire play group, he always seems like the one who builds most all in around his commanders.
Green ramp is only a problem because we are told that land destruction isn’t okay. And what are the worst colors for commander? Red and white? The primary colors that have any land destruction
I personally don’t mind Dranith Magistrate. You kill it and move on most of the time. Sometimes it gets you but there are far more salt inducing things happening here.
I don't mind magistrates effect and think a couple more versions of the effect would be good, just like anti tutoring. But this stuff NEEDS to be symmetrical. As a deck builder you should have to make the hard choice of giving up power or consistency to include these type of cards. In fact, this very thing is what made deck brewing fun once upon a time. Limitation breeds creativity. For this reason I hate magistrate
I personally hate the card, it literally stops people from being able to playbthe format the way it was designed. If I'm playing cedh feelings are out the window but drannith is casual is major 🧂
Drannith Magistrate never survives long in our meta. I don’t see it as an issue at all. Removal is a core part of the format and there are three other people to remove it.
I think that it is not good. White can protect this, while not being affected by it. If this was symmetrical, then there would be less salt, but as it is its a problem.
Yeah, I've never seen it cast and make an impact on the game to degree that Richard states it does. It was annoying for a turn, maybe. But it doesn't have flash and frankly, Commanders have a soft social-shroud nowadays and I rarely need to cast my general over and over.
Obscuring Haze is honestly my favorite of the free cycle. It's the exact power level that the other cards should have been.
It represents a very powerful, classic color-appropriate effect, and then has situational zero mana investment.
Exactly. You have to specifically care about the effect and play with it, instead of it just being the staple combo protection/disruption card of that color. If Haze was like the rest of them, it would have read something like "instant - Destroy each artifact and enchantment you don't control", which every green deck ever would want to play without any real consideration.
Powerful? Is Fog powerful in commander now? I disagree completely with this, because Obscuring Haze sees 0 play at all. And with good reason.
The only comparable card that is generally considered Commander playable is Spore Frog, and only in decks that either benefit a lot off the dies trigger or can bring it back constantly.
TL:DR - Obscuring Haze mega weak and not the power level to aim for imo
I've spent my 1 for 1 removal on the sol ring. It's amazing.
I've had people scoop to that play because they relied on sol ring too much and didn't have enough lands to do anything else.
If you can snipe it turn 1 or 2, it takes the player from a really good position to dead last.
Snipe the sol ring, it's worth it.
It doesn't make the game you're in any better when one player is out immediately. We sit down to play with four players intentionally. The fault is on Sol Ring that that person is out of the game, mind me, and it's a technically correct line. But I'm no happier about it than if someone had mulled down to 4 and then rightclick-conceded before keeping.
@James Black I can't
Honestly my favorite play includes Spell Piercing/Mental Missteping an early sol ring, grim monolith, or mana crypt... you wanna see someone get salty, then spell pierce a sol ring.
This has happened to me a few times, every time I made sure the person who did it was out first. Love mini games in commander
I love Drannith Magistrate because it checks that one player, the one that doesn't play interactions and just do his own stuff and win one turn. It gives player with interactions the time they need to set themselves up and not have to play the police everywhere.
It can be kinda back breaking for some players if played early, you don't keep a hand expecting to not be able to play your Commander. The no removal argument is fine for some cards, but at the end of the day it's a 100 card format.
It can be hard to keep a hand with card draw, ramp and then on top of that, removal. Most of the time, people draw into their removal which isn't always a possibility with Drannith Magistrate on the battlefield. I don't think it's that bad of a card, but I definitely understand why it can be a frustrating card. Also Tomer's argument for making decks not based primarily based around your commander just seems awful lol.
...except for those decks who use (or need) their commander to answer things.
@@Spaced92 and there are other things that need answered.
Um...strong, interactive decks tends to win more already over glass cannon decks that can't answer anything opponents do. Going by the "decks that are weaker need more tools" argument, it's actually the glass cannon decks that can sometimes (but very rarely) pop off early that need more tools, not ones already busting out with value and interaction.
“If there was a Rhystic Study Eminence ability, I would quit Magic…”
Mark Rosewater: “write that down, WRITE THAT DOWN!”
It exists and it's a card called chancellor of the anex
@@kingfuzzy2chancellor doesnt draw cards along with being a one time and opening hand dependent
@@Qobp thank goodness
Fierce Guardianship should have been limited to what the name implies--guarding one's commander. The fact that it's a general noncreature counterspell makes too OP.
It should have been a Hindering Light/Keep Safe that costs 0 if the thing it's countering is targeting a commander.
Crim is technically the most salty, Tomer and Seth didn't like a few blue cards, but he would put all of green in S Tier
They should all play mono green and not tell Crim and see how salty he gets
I always find the person that wants to do the saltiest stuff also gets the saltiest when someone disrupts their plan
And every oppressive blue card was okay for Crim...which shouldn't be surprising
@@MelodiousGroan It honestly depends. I like stax/voltron, aggro, and anti-ramp because it encourages good tempo plays and forces opponents to have good interaction and curves. Commander's focus on all one-card value engines all the time does get old, even when the decks are built well. Sometimes that means my tiny hatebears are gonna get blown up and that's fine. It's not really the fact that the creatures are gone that's salty, it's knowing that people are gonna start tapping out for haymakers and it takes 2-3 cards to combat that, which usually means once the first wipe happens my gameplan's dead in the water.
But that's kind of the nature of aggro in MtG in general. You have to accept that or build in a plan B that still works with that plan A.
Crim's fine with Insurrection because he's never had enough power on the battlefield for it to kill him.
"Deflecting swat gets cut, because it is not powerful enough". Whaaa :D If you hate extra turns, deflecting swat is like your best tool against them, lol. Card is incredible, especially if you aren't in blue.
"Why would I not armageddon if I'm the first person out" Well, because you want them to finish the game quick so you can play another game, instead of waiting for 3 hours? :)
Crim, I think you should play Polluted Bonds and Curse of the Restless Dead :)
Richard forgot the "your opponents" part of Cyclonic Rift. No, not everyone spends the next few turns re-setting their board. Some players do, while a completely and totally unphased person is going ahead unimpeded. It is effectively an Insurrection, but for less mana, at least in terms of the actual impact of the spell. Nothing else mattered before this point, you win now because you had mana to cast a spell that didn't get countered.
If your deck can't answer a single creature like Dranith Magistrate, there's a good chance it can't answer any problematic permanents, like Rhystic or seedborn muse.
Aren’t the same things. I have decks that don’t answer rhystic or muse, but can kill their owner (best removal is player removal😎). But Dranith Magistrate makes any original and very weird and narrow and unique deck fall into pieces. The deck that is most fine about Magistrate is CEDH, which runs commander for colours and additional card in hand with a card draw or smh and the rest is counterspells, tutors and just combo off. And I really don’t like that. Leave that to legacy, I want to play unique and unguarantied, but original and theme-based decks. I play the eggs tribal (Naya one) and someone slams this - I guess I don’t do anything meaningful now. I play my Kenrith grouphug and someone plays Magistrate - guess I am out of the game.
@@asmodean7239 if your deck dies to a 2 mana 1/3 you built your deck wrong bottom line. Play more removal so that one cheap creature doesn't kill your entire gameplan.
@@Mr12345pokemon I don't agree. I believe in having spot removal and having answers to things like Ulamog and some enchantment removal. That said the commander format originated with the idea of building around your commander. I may not have my Swords in my hand but it's there. Until I draw it my deck stalls and for some decks shut down in that they can't direct their attention to their strategy and instead have to reroute. I don't like the card, but I do have a full art foil DM xD
@@slymcfly123 it only stalls if the only thing your deck does is play its commander*
Oh, yes, Sure, Just tell the Reaper King deck to run more removal.
It's not like Removal is half the deck or anything.
Average RK deck on EDH Rec runs 1 card in the 99 able to deal with Dranith without their commander on the field; It runs 30, minimum, that deal with Dranith with commander present.
My old table had a house rule for extra turns that worked for us fairly well. Literally " If you take 3+ extra turns and dont' win the game on the spot, you lose the game for wasting the table's time. " This discourages the "Scuse me while i play solitaire" approach that a lot of those decks have where you're just waiting forever.
that sounds lame as fuck. how often were your friends taking 3+ turns that it wasn't even impressive or exciting anymore
Nice!
With Opposition Agent you also get to see the person's hand and hidden cards while searching because you control them during that period
Personally Drannith Magistrate is fine. It’s a white card that creates a rule, it’s on flavor and dies to removal. It’s 2021 magic has evolved and removal is everywhere.
As for UB, with the changes it isn’t as salt inducing. People alter cards all the time to play with different things. The only salty thing about UB is we don’t have the rest of the My Little Pony cards >~>
It's not on flavour, because it's a white stax piece that isn't symmetrical.
I wonder if the solution to green ramp is effects that punish having more lands than the rest of the table.
I've been saying that for a long time, you need balancing effects or significantly more land-based punishing effects. People say that's not fun, but imo it's much less fun for the entire format to warp around needing to play green in order to compete
Balance, Equipoise, Equilibrium, Land Equilibrium, Restore Balance to a lesser extent, Confounding Conundrum, there's a few out there^^
Also Natural Balance, Acidic Soil
I just started this, but I'm assuming the list will be everyone ranking actual salty cards high, Crim the salt player ranking them low and saying "this is normal fair magic as a blue/black player, and then Crim ranking something fair like Farseek really high. I am also going to bet that 90% of these cards will be in every one of Crim's decks
I mean we all know you hate Crim but you could at least hear the guy out before attacking him in the comments. Crim isn’t my favorite member and in the past I disliked him (see old videos and my comments) but I warmed up to him. I also really can respect his ability look at the game not too seriously in terms of getting salty yet still playing to win. Maybe try giving Crim a chance too unless of course being salty over a player is enriching your life somehow.
@@ms.sysbit5511 people are just teasing. He DOES have some interesting takes though lol.
@@ms.sysbit5511 I don't hate Crim - he's just the spike player at a casual table. And this comment was meant to be fun based on typical Commander Clash interactions. Crim's decks are mostly blue/black spikey cards that draw salt from the table every game, and he enjoys playing to make others salty and then coming in second. I will of course watch the entire podcast (as I always do) but I thought an up front prediction would be fun, given the subject
@@adamfiliatreault3393 crim is a spicy johney change my mind
@@kingfuzzy2 I don't know what that is :P. In my opinion, Crim is the only spike at the table who consistently brings high-power control cards (bordering on cEDH level) to a casual table and is only kept in check by the house ban list
I died when Seth just said that he would slam an Armageddon when he is about to lose.
I agree 1000% with Richard about Insurrection. Literally none of these other cards are salty to me personally except for this one card. At least with other big spells or combo finishers you have to have some sort of set up and put forward a game plan, but you can just sit on your ass for 8 turns while other people do stuff, play this one card, and then the game is over. It's not flashy and awesome, Crim, it's braindead and stupid. Ugh, lol. I'm getting heated even just typing this up.
Tomer literally described dranith magistrate as a salty card without calling it salty. Makes the player who plays it get killed, annoys multiple players and doesnt really progress one's own gameplan. I've never seen dranith magistrate played without it completely hosing some poor soul who just wanted to play their commander and didnt top deck removal.
And rest in peace shuts down graveyard decks. So what? Most of my decks still have ways to win without relying solely on my commander, hell my roommate even recently complained about that.
Yep I've seen many games where a player who was Mana screwed to the point they could only cast their low cost commander and no cards in hand but unfortunately magistrate was never removed the whole game and the Manascrewed player cried a lot
@@atk9989 Rest in peace is a salty card for a lot of graveyard players. I personally play soul-guid lantern and other 1 time hate effects. I'm not talking about there power level, rest in peace is better than soul-guide lantern, but soul-guide lantern is far less salty.
Draw 3 cards every off turn for 1 mana. Crim: "It is not bonkers"
Average blue player tbh
But playing more than one land is "against the basic rules of magic".
...Which is totally unlike drawing more than the first card you draw each turn. Watching his gameplay is often really fun, but never would I ever want to see him design a single magic card.
@@qwormuli77 oh I'd hate to be in his playgroup. If he ever gets anywhere near the design room I'd quit magic until the set got cycled into obscurity because he has such a warped perception of "fair and fun"
@@qwormuli77 The fundamental flow of MtG gameplay is surrounding mana, not cards in hand. The limiter to what you can do is mana. Yes, cards in hand are helpful, mana is literally everything.
@@dontmisunderstand6041 The cards you have access to are also a limiter on what you can do. You use mana to play cards, and to play cards you need to draw them first. Mana is not everything, what does having infinite mana accomplish if you don't have any way to spend it? What does having your entire deck in your hand accomplish if you don't have any mana? They are both limiters. There's a reason every deck needs to balance their ramp with card draw.
I’m definitely much more in favor of symmetric effects and would not be sad for a second to see asymmetric effects go away. Why? Symmetric effects require thought and maybe some creativity.
Tomer giggling while Crim complains about ramp is gold
I feel like one of the criterion for your S-tier should be that you hate the card so much that you REFUSE to even play it…THAT is true salt, when you hate a card so much that you won’t even put it in your 99 (or 98). If you are going to complain about someone else playing a card, you had better not be playing it yourself, otherwise you discredit your argument as to why it shouldn’t be played.
It depends. There can be reasons to play cards that you'd never want to see across the table from you. Maybe you enjoy having a target on your head.
@@chubzoid then you can't complain about how salty it is I you cast it and laugh.
@@atk9989 That's fair!! I'm actually not the type of person who is going out of my way to play annoying cards, and I try not to complain when people get me with them, even though they can lessen my enjoyment of the game.
My biggest pet peeve is getting blown out by Cyclonic Rift. Something about having to pick up all my cards and having to stare at them, useless in my hand, is so much worse than just having them die. However, if people didn't play annoying cards, I wouldn't have the satisfaction of beating players who play annoying cards, and that's the best part of Magic for me. :p
"How everyone thinks whatever garbage card they have is worth the tax," said Richard not holding anything back, this is gonna be an amazing video!
The real problem with Insurrection is that it's more "That was an interesting game you were having, but who's going to die now? No I can't kill everyone, but you, yes you, you can't play with us anymore."
When I first started playing Commander I had someone pull me aside to explain that "land destruction isn't allowed" talking about single-target, not even Armageddon. He then combo'd out with Thassas Oracle against precons after a 20 minute turn tapping/untapping things and now I struggle to remember why I gave their opinion half a second of thought. Salty over an extremely minor thing while doing that to other fresh players.
Fierce guardianship is definitely a S for me not because it counters whatever I’m trying to do that’s fine. But it counters me trying to stop them from just comboing off. It’s a free layer of protection for their degenerate combos. If I hold up mana on turn 3 I don’t want to lose because my opponent just gets to counter it for free. There is no counter play other than just running my own but that also forces me to run a small selection of cheap commanders to try to get it online before my opponent goes off.
see i don't think its an S mainly because its hilarious to see 4 people with blue in their decks going fierce guardianship tag
@@OsamuWuVT you got me there. Lol 0 mana counterspell wars are so dumb
@@Gingerbreadley they are but i wish i was joking, a player in my lgs had a thassa's oracle win con, guy across from him played Mnemonic nexus to basically tell him no winning with that. Thassa's player did fierce guardianship (don't remember the commander) nexus player did fierce guardianship, guy next to the thassa player fierce guardianship last player fierce guardian ship. it was amazing funny all at the same time
So it's kinda like the case of the Modern banning of Mental Misstep. That card was banned not bc it's a free spell that can do something, it's banned bc it's a free spell that can COUNTER ITSELF! The envioronment then was so boring that everybody ran multiple copies of it bc they HAD TO. Another similar one in Modern being everybody ran 4 copies of Leyline of the Void during the infamous Hogaak summer, bc Leyline's a freebie so why not? COLOR and COST are the two fundamental guardians in MTG that keep cards from being degenarate, but a free spell bypasses BOTH of them.
@@MihaelGeng Next year will be the year of the Pot of Greed in EDH design, mark my words.
My only problem with Drannith Magistrate is that it was created to hose companions and then it didn't. Other than that I appreciate it's existence and run removal so I can use my commander
It's actually kind of hilarious that post Companion errata, it literally does nothing to them now
Drannith Sadstate
Listening to Crim is like getting a whiplash; half the time he has excellent points, the other half he just rambles like a mad man! 😅
Did he actually have good points? I just felt like I was losing braincells
*he has good points 1/10 of the time
this is weird... first time I hear a podcast where all of the participants make actually good points that do not necessarily attack other opinion and I agree with all of them
Bruh I'm 6 minutes in and there sh*ting on tomer because he doesn't like rhystic study.
@@Naturessightsandsounds7040 They are attacking Tomers objective points, not Tomer himself for how much he subjectively believes in his opinion. The first is key to what a debate is in the first place, and is totally fair and not a personal thing. They also make good points, and allow him a fair chance to argue back against them. Again: It's a great podcast for resonable, well-argued debates.
I agree. Sometimes I think Richard is either (1) just a bit of a troll, or is (2) a bit smug and genuinely truly thinks he knows better than everyone else. ...but then I hear him make a very good argument (like for Fierce Guardianship) that completely changes my own opinion, and I realise it might be a mix of (1), (2) and another (3) - that being: he might troll or genuinely believe his bad arguments sometimes, but he also sometimes has a genuinely amazing way at looking at things in a fairer, more objective light.
The discussion about Armageddon.... I've never understood why that card is legal but Balance is banned. I will die on the hill of saying white in commander needs more Balance effects to pull back the blue and black decks that are drawing out their whole decks, and the green decks that are ramping way ahead of everyone else.
This
Because Balance is not fair. Armageddon hits everyone equally. Balance only hits: lands, creatures, and hands. You’ll notice whole card types are missing on this 2 drop sorcery. You can easily break parity with it and rocks then essentially Mindslicer + Armageddon the table for 2 mana. That’s why.
@@ms.sysbit5511 You can do something very similar with Armageddon. You're blowing up all lands, but you can break parity if you have a lot of rocks. So, what's your point there?
Regardless, if Armageddon blows up ALL lands and is okay, and Jokulhops blows up all everything and is okay, and now Worldfire which exiles everything and sets everyone's life total to 1 is now okay, why is the card that sets everyone to whoever is furthest behind banned?
This is the answer white needs right now in the current environment where land ramp and card draw are going unchecked, but Wizards won't give either to white. Let them keep denying these abilities to white, but let white also stop others from gaining any advantage. White is the color of "fair" magic, and bringing everyone to parity is the way to (forgive the pun) balance things out. And it basically has to be on a sorcery since the other versions, the Magus and the suspended spell, allow your opponents to punish you for the wrath before you use it, which is why they don't really get played.
@@anthonydelfino6171 I can envision fair balance effects but Balance is not it. This is 2 mana and hits lands, hands, and creatures. No way in heck ever. Armageddon is 4 mana and you need to break its parity with another effect (minimum of 2 mana). Balance does this in one card for way lower mana.
@@ms.sysbit5511 Being cheap and powerful isn't a reason to keep it banned, else we'd have banned fast mana and cards like swords to plowshares or force of will ages ago. Two mana when it doesn't wipe the whole board, doesn't destroy all lands, and unless someone has 0 cards in hand, doesn't force everyone to discard all cards in hand is fair when compared to other effects that do destroy all of one of those things. Everyone still gets to keep the best of what they have, so it's not going to answer threats that a wrath effect would take care of, people get to keep their best lands, and likely every color of mana, so it's not going to do much there either. Really the only rough part is when the white player says to go down to whoever has the fewest cards in hand, that's probably the person who cast it. But even then, that's still "fair" since no one is getting ahead
I'm a D on Drannith Magistrate. If the three other players can't muster up a removal spell for a 2 drop, people need to change their decklists.
Their argument isn't that 3 people can't remove it, it's when 1 plays it and 2 don't care leaving the last player Fd when they care the most but can't find removal and the other 2 won't help. I usually run more interaction in my decks than most solely because I got so tired of that exact scenario I'm a durdly muldrotha deck and someone t2 rest in peaces me I spent the next 9 turns not being able to play cuz no one else cared about their gy
@@supranova7594 yea, and that's the problem when you play a narrow style deck. If you don't like it then play a more rounded deck. I currently have 15 decks and almost all of them do very different things so if someone has a single deck that hard counters one of mine then I just play one that can still play through it without counting theirs.
They already have mechanics rewarding playing your commander, such as lieutenant. Free spells ain't it, especially when they're so staple-y and expensive.
I couldn't agree more.
expensive relative to what? $20-30 is NOT expensive.
Relative to the cardboard it is printed on, $20-$30 is too much.
@@TVVOSTEP The blue and red ones are $40, the black is $20, and the rest are situational enough that people don't run them anyways. Regardless, $20/card is NOT cheap. There's a reason people complain about how unaffordable a good mana base is.
Part of magic historically is free spells. Part of magic historically is collectable expensive cards.
Your the outlier here lol. Not the cards.
The consistency of these takes rivals the reasoning of the Rules Committee. 🤣🤣🤣
If Drannith Magistrate is making you salty above a B tier, then you failed in your deckbuilding. A fundemantal idea of good deckbuilding is having more than 1 win-con and having multiple answers to cards that are hampering your game plan.
In any format other than commander.
That's not the point. It's just a total hate card, possibly miserable for some players. Therefore, it is a salty card. Agree with Seth and Richard, it's an A. (talking from a casual perspective)
Yes and imagine telling your friend about this format, having him build and facedown a D magistrate on turn two and his deck has 4 removal spells and none in hand, congratulations your friend will probably never play commander again.
Also, there is a difference between frustration/salt and the ability to answer a thing, even though the two often go hand in hand. You can begrudge a thing forcing you to spend your time or spells answering or playing around it. It takes away from the time spent doing the thing you came there to do, which feels bad, sometimes whether or not it's reasonable. I dislike DM (B or B+?) because I like playing decks built around the restriction of the commander, and DM makes me jump through hoops to even play a normal fair game. Likewise, I dislike decks that want to be archenemy or come fast out of the gate and never let up; even if I have enough interaction to keep them at bay, I'm not getting to play the game I came to until they've burned out, even if policing is the correct way to answer them.
@@erfunk I agree with that sentiment, for me it’s not ever that these things aren’t easy to deal with regarding your deck building, but for me it depends on how open the playgroup is, for example: I built a storm deck and my friend knew that and put in a turn 2 dampening sphere, I had one artifact removal spell in my deck, after that game I adjusted it and its fine, BUT, had he been open with explaining his deck will Stax me, I would have been prepared, so like if you are playing with D magistrate just tell your playgroup ahead of time because such things can really kill the format unless your playgroup has established a meta
Crim: Fierce Guardianship is good because it lets me play my commander
Also Crim: We need more "you can't cast your commander" effects
To Crim's point about the free cycle, what about cards with lieutenant? Or the anthem that gives +X/+X for each time you've cast your commander? These incentivize casting commanders without being the level of bullshit that is fierce guardianship
Here's my list:
S
A:
B: Rhystic Study
C:
D: Every other card in the game
I remember the days when Tomer advocated for mystic remora and rystic study every commander clash, the olden days
I swear he played mystic remora every game he played blue
About the green land ramp, there has been a cool addition recently with confounding conundrum, with they added more similar effects that actually gives answers to this kind of ramp
You guys made me chuckle right at the beginning! Of course it's the ultimate blue player (Crim) and the "I'd rather draw 2 cards than not die horribly before my next turn" player (our best friend, who'reprobablybetterknownas...) that didn't hate Rhystic Study at all! 🤣
With the expanded universe cards, id never be mad at someone playing them at my table or even say anything to them about it, but man would it sour my mood and disengage me from play so fast. I want ad block for irl so bad.
The salt isn't about people playing the cards, it's about the cards existing at all.
I'm not hating anyone personally for them, but none of the outside ip -cards are welcome in our table. As a community we can make a clear stance against these kinds of products and one way of doing that is discourage people from getting them.
@@Locohappy looking at this comment 3 years later, I don't think that things went the way you wanted.
Drannith Magistrate is like placing Ward on the opponents commanders, except instead of mana, or life, you pay with a removal spell. I think it's totally not gatekeeping to force your opponents to have creature removal. It's the same as not caring if someone is getting screwed over because they don't play enough lands or any mana rocks. Removal is part of a functional deck.
I see this argument a lot and my issue with it is, it's a 100 card singleton format. I regularly run 10+ pieces of interaction and a few board wipes, but sometimes go entire games without seeing any of it. If you're the only one affected by the Magistrate, you're kinda SOL at that point. Doubly so if your deck relies on your commander, or God forbid you're a Voltron deck. You can't always have an answer for everything, and it's pretty feel bad in those situations. Not like S teir levels of salt, but it definitely takes away from the enjoyment.
Not commander argument. That is legacy/modern/standard argument. I have removal in my Edgar Markov deck, but is vampire themed removal, because I only play cards that are on theme and on flavour, which means that I don’t have a lot of removal. And I refuse to break flavour for the sake of universality. I did not come to this format to have answers for everything.
@@NeoGamma I mean, that happens sometimes. Sometimes you're the only one affected by a Grafdigger's Cage or you're playing storm and no one else is particularly bothered by the Ethersworn Canonist. You either need to find, an answer, make deal with someone who has an answer, or lose. Sometimes you just get hosed.
@@asmodean7239 and I refuse to break flavour for the sake of being nice. My Liesa tax is deffinied by its taxes and stax. So feel free to use your vampire-themed removal when it eventuyally comes to your hand :)
@@MrPFMneto I am totally fine with deck being powerful against certain decks due to theme restrictions and powers. I am fine with taxes tribal. So if you wreck me with it, it’s fine. I am not a hypocrite, unlike some others.
Totally agree with crim I'm so tired of green land ramp. Untouchable ramp is disgusting and the reason green is considered the best color in EDH
Meanwhile non green decks lose ALL their ramp to mass artifact removal and nobody gets salty over that but if someone touches a land its massively salty
thats because more people run armageddon that stone rain and wiping all the lands just extends the game to unbearable lengths
Drannith Magistrate is a good and fair card. Tomer is right; it's a fault of deck building if you fold to this card.
My biggest gripe with it is that it should be equal, but otherwise it's pretty fine in most cases.
Nah, it's just a potential big F. U. for some decks. Nothing interesting, just hate...
It's a small creature, if you can't deal with it, that's on you. Besides, all decks have an Achilles' Heel. If you're too all in on your commander, that's yours. If you know that and didn't plan for the hate, that's entirely your fault.
@@Evyon25121 true, but I just don't see how this is a fun card, or adds anything interesting to the game. It's a potential very bad experience, lets say a newer player who built around their commander. This is for casual of course, and not cEDH. I wouldn't be extremely impressed if someone plays this, more like why did you put this uninteresting potential hate-card into your deck, can't say I'm impressed. I wouldn't personally be very salty, I just don't see the point for this include in casual play.
@@hermodnitter3902 There are different levels of casual play, and this card is totally acceptable at anything higher than maybe pre-con level. Otherwise, this is the same level of hate as a normal graveyard hate spell imo.
As Commander and legendary creatures gets more and more pushed (Golos, Chulane, etc.), I think cards like Drannith Magistrate are needed to combat these powerful commanders.
Or uh partners
The problem is that Drannith Magistrate punishes everyone else way more than the most efficiency-minded power players, because they're not the ones with lots of cheap removal and decks that can keep their commander protected. The only way to deal with stupidly pushed commanders is rule zero or outright bannings, because hating out commanders in general screws everyone as much or more than the person running the hypothetical bullshit Golos pile.
I actually see where Crim is coming from with ramp being overly powerful. It’s definitely one of the reasons green is the second most if not the most powerful color
I think he's wrong about ramp but correct about land destruction.
Crim is spot on with extra turn spells. Extra turns spend most of your mana for miniscule advantage. Extra turns are almost always by definition durdling. It's not that it's not effective, but other methods accomplish the same thing while respecting everyone else's time more.
The walking dead cards absolutely and fundamentally change Magic for me. The distribution was it's own terrible issue, but at least they have changed that. But I feel the other universes break immersion, and make Wizards lazy in design. They want a 40k world? Make one. They have so many planes CLEARLY based on other IP, but they are NEW and UNIQUE. Could you imagine if Eldraine had literally been a Disney set? Now that they're going to include actually Magic version, I'm perfectly fine with the new ones. Walking Dead will always upset me.
"We're not going back to Lorwyn. Also, here's our LotR set."
So they are printing magic versions of the walking dead along with the stranger things magic equivalents.
@@mimmoq7960 ah, ok that wasn't readily clear, but I'm glad to hear it. That is a huge fix for my concerns. Like, I enjoyed the Godzilla treatments for Ikoria. This feels like the reverse of that, but I'm ok with it.
Lol I feel like Tomer always rate things on how they affect the format and Everyone else rates them based on how it affects their personal play style.
Seems entirely reasonable
THANK YOU
No. Richard does as well. Look at his opinion on mass land destruction.
He was pretty off about Dranith Magistrate, though. Some decks just do revolve entirely around their commander because that is the nature of the format. Sometimes this card will come down and you can't play the game and you will feel salty about it. It's not OP and is an effective tool, but this is about salt inducing, and it can definitely create some salty scenarios.
@@totakekeslider3835 If your entire deck revolves around your commander, you're an idiot. The commander should only ever be a great piece in the deck, not the literal only piece in the deck that lets you play.
The problem I have with this is every one has cards that they find salty, you can't iron out every single card and play around that. its different for every one. I also have cards that I dont like, but I have had to learn to deal with them. It is really tricky when there is an additional, unofficial/soft ban list, because now it is just subjective guide lines that are impossible to follow.
Would be nice if community had more game theory knowledge and understood at the end of the day how similar a lot of these cards are and why certain effects exist to balance the game. This same lack of knowledge is what lends support to wizards printing cards that are actually broken like drannith magistrate. Which is a fine ability if it were symmetrical, but to have no deck building punishment (easy mode for sprouting Hasbro cash crops) is not cool and I hope more people will come to realize this before it's endemic.
The problem is you can not make everyone happy thats why after starting some what casual I moved more towards cedh. Everyone knows ur coming out guns blazing there isnt this wierd awkard tension if you counter someone or blow up all the lands. It is agreed upon before the game even starts that ur all out here to play as optimal as you can.
I'd love to see a "no ramp green" as a commander clash video where all 4 of the players dont use color ramp. To see really how it would go.
Yes please daddy
I'd guess it would be basically the same, but landfall is banned, and artifact hate is even more premium
Seth when asked if he'd disenchant a sol ring: "It's tough because then you're down a card"
Seth when someone plays a bounceland: eyes light up and he starts thinking of tutoring strip mines >.>
If you have an island (1 card) and then bounce it you your hand (-1 card to sum of 0 cards) if I (thinking through the perspective if I was probably better known as saffronolive) strip mine you (I lose 1 card) you lose 2 mana and therein lose 2 cards and so through freudian diagletics I lose 1 but you lose 2 so I technically gain 1 card so it's plus for me.
yeah disenchant solring you're down 2 mana 1 card for their 1 mana 1 card but strip mining a bounceland is 1 land 1 landdrop vs 1 land 2 landdrops which is advantageous to you.
I want Seth to know I agree with almost everything he says on these podcasts
Drannith is awful for the reasons Richard mentioned. We build decks around our commanders and in casual we arent just playing our commander and just winning because of it. Usually the deck is designed to do cool things with it tho advance towards a win. Plus you can remove most commanders.
Building a deck around my commander is something I rarely do. I just choose the commander for the colours for my jank
If you can remove a commander then why can't you remove a 2 drop?
For someone who has been playing commander as long he has you'd think he'd remember when the tuck rule existed and everyone's decks were super boring because they just played the best cards in their color because they were terrified of relying on a commander. If Tomer wants to play 100 card singleton with no commander that format already exists, it's called Highlander lol.
Is that in response to the Fierce Guardianship?
@@qwormuli77 Oh god no Fierce Guardianship can go burn in a fire, I was referring to the conversation around Dranith Magistrate
Eh. Most commanders have some alternatives that give you redundant copies of their effect, even if they're not as powerful. Yuriko has stuff like Ingenious Infiltrator to replicate the card advantage Yuriko provides. Teysa Karlov can play Anointed Procession to double up on the tokens that your creatures are making. That's just two examples, but I guarantee that if you picked a random commander that there are multiple cards in their colors that at least approximate their abilities.
This is a dishonest thing to say. To say that commanders getting tucked is akin to a nevermore effect being an interactible permanent on the field is disingenuous in my opinion.
To steelman the argument, I would list nevermore as VERY difficult to interact with in B/R and then point to Blast Zone or nev's disk as sad answers. From there, politics is also your only option at that point, which is very much in-line with the ever-ephemeral "spirit of commander". But you are forced have to do that in light of no other alternatives, which sucks.
Maybe "nevermore" is something you should ask about in rule 0, but to ask that about a one-of 1/3 creature which dies to the second mode of abrade isn't something I can relate to in any capacity.
Lol at Crim ranking Flawless Maneuver below Deflecting Swat.
The fact that spell can hit abilities is INSANE
"Do you pay the 1?" cards - B - it is a tad bit salty, but I do run them in many decks because of how good they are. It slows the game if the table is responsible or pulls someone way ahead if no one pays for them. But so does every tax strategy. It's a valid way of playing magic.
Opp Agent - A - card is too pushed. At casual tables it doesn't matter as much because budget doesn't search as much, but then it strictly punishes green. Would be fine with it if it was sorcery speed or didn't allow for the card to be played.
Extra turns - S - when you chain them together. Nothing fun about that. My Niv-Mizzet deck does this, I take it out only with people knowing what they're going into.
Counterspells (Fierce guardianship) - C - counters are a stain on magic, but blue has to exist in the color pie so they need to have a way to interact with the game. Should probably be a bit salty about the free ones, but it's 1for1 in a game with 2 other players. You're already at a resource disadvantage.
Mass card draw denial - A - these cards would be fine as a safety valve, but they are used offensively which makes them salt inducing as the table loses all gas and the control player has no threat to finish it quickly.
Mass land destruction - A - same as above - if it's done in a way where the caster has a dominating position and finishes the game quickly whatever. It's salty only if it unnecessarily drags the game to a halt.
Cyclonic - C - it is very strong card and can have unfun playpatterns built around it, but blue needs a "boardwipe" too.
Ramp - D - more resources = more magic to be had. Crim is salty because he's manascrewed so often.
Magistrate - B - locking out commanders out of the game is not fun. But then again sometimes you run into an entire deck that negates your's. You can rule 0 talk about taking out a single card, it's harder to have someone stop playing a good deck only because it's a hard counter to yours.
Sol ring - D - more resources = more magic to be had. In casual you can't abuse it as much as in cEDH so all it does is painting a target on you and will get you killed early or you run off with the game in a boring one sided way - I started taking them out of my decks a long long time ago.
Insurrection - A - I'm with Richard on this one - anti-climatic "I win the game" cards that have nothing to do with whatever happened up until that point in the game are not fun.
Secret lair cards - C - I will be slightly judgemental about it, because I don't like the concept of the product, but whatever - if you like it and you can afford it play whatever version of cards you want.
The problem I have with ramp is greens ramp, because green gets basic lands and there is little to no interaction with them, and the only cards that interact easily is mass land destruction which is frowned on because the one or two people that troll with them.
Sunder and other effects should be definitely more run it's only going to take the green player 2 turns to pull ahead and the no green players 3+ turns anyhoo mld ain't a bad thing it's healthy for the format. Mass land exile I won't abide by.
Your takes are bad.
More resources aren’t good. More resources make your turn take longer. If everyone just played a land and X or Y for their turn the game would be x2 as fast, and it would be big monsters/spells swimming haymakers -how it used to be.
“One turn wins” like Insurrection is straw man and effectively Craterhoof or dual caster mage/manageyser/twin caster or a Sanguine Bond+Exquisite Blood. Aetherflux Reservoir infinite life gain combo.
They’re all 1/2 piece card combo that just happen and finish the game the same way.
@@andrewhetes1623 These are opinions man- you may have different expiriences and/or expectations from commander than someone else. Doesn't make my take any less good than yours.
From my expirience 1 spell a turn would end up in a boardstall as opposed someone accelerating their gameplan with multiple spells and pulling ahead due to ramp.
What about it is a straw man? The win cons where you top deck a card that makes you go "oops I win the game" are all terrible - not because they win you the game - they do that very well, my point is they feel cheap and undeserved and invalidate anything that happened up to that point in the game. Again this is a personal opinion, but I stand by it - took all curiosity effects out of Niv-Mizzet after a single win like that cuz it felt stupid to just announce "I win" because noone happened to have a counterspell/removal.
Drannith Magistrate 100% is salt inducing. Yes, it hits oppressive commanders, but that doesn’t mean it’s not frustrating. 90% of players build their entire deck with their commander in mind. I’ve seen people play strictly worse effects just because they have tribal themes attached. It’s a casual format, people are playing their sweet alternate art commander or a commander with an interesting and unique effect. The card probably isn’t to good, but it definitely is a salt inducing effect.
I think if they made cards that gave you a benefit from when your opponents cast their commanders that would be much healthier, or at least something punishing them from casting it. Preventing someone from doing the core aspect of Commander is just too salt inducing.
I agree. Something that prevents people from casting their Commander should be banned on the grounds of "against the spirit of the format"
It seems to be becoming a less casual format tbh. That’s why you’re seeing so many net deckers
@@jamesgratz4771 I don't think net decking is the issue. It's copy pasting lists.
Net decking still gives you room for your own flare in the deck and pet cards. Sometimes you need a starting point to help
Copy pasting lists is just grabbing the best stuff for that deck and putting it in with no thought from the player
@@bluedog4248 net decking as the vast majority of the community defines it is copy pasting a list off the internet in order to win.
Copying a deck of the internet and making changes is not net decking.
Copying a deck off the internet and making no changes but only because you like the idea, theme, playstyle, etc. is not net decking.
Copying a deck off the internet because it wins is net decking.
@@bluedog4248 on that I agree
I don't understand what distinguishes Extra Turn spells from other controlling effects that prevent your opponents from playing the game in Crim's mind. Crim often actively pursues stopping others from playing the game, which is a valid playstyle, but dislikes Extra Turns because they do exactly that.
I feel like if Time Warp read "Until your next turn, your opponents skip their beginning, precombat main, combat, postcombat main, and ending phases." Crim would love it. Hullbreacher/Notion Thief/Narset are much worse to play against, but Crim is all for that.
He is a grixis fanboy what do you expect.
There can be a real difference. Even stax decks typically have multiple pieces that take time and resources to put in place before a full lock happens.
Extra turns on the other hand feel like one card combos where 3 other people are immediately locked out of playing barring any mana, artifacts, etc. still available that can be used.
To clarify, this is in the case of chaining multiple extra turns. A single extra turn here and there isn't that much of a deal. But once you start chaining, you enter that realm of "I'm playing all the magic"
Did you not listen to crims side on that? He likes notion thief, narset, and hullbreacher to punish the draw 50 cards decks. And very specifically does not play wheels because he hates wheels.
Lol sugar water… really brings me back to that first scene in Men In Black where the guy has the alien parasite inside him and yells at the lady for sugar water in quite possibly the most hilarious voice ever
My worst experiences are against combo decks and supressive control decks.
The first either does nothing or ends the game. There is close to no relevant interaction with them. (Except counter their combo piece, but deals have no result.)
If there is a board wipe each second turn, because there are two control player on the table, it's feels like Armageddon. You can do things, but it doesn't matter. If you play a creature deck, you wait two hours until another player ends the game.
I play razia's purification in my tribal tribal deck. If I have UrDragon on the field, it is just a finisher.
Compared to other things which everybody seems to accept, it's weird to me what are the "no goes".
My personal guideline is: "Make sure everybody can have fun aswell."
People came to play magic cards don't prevent that part! It doesn't matter if it's Winter Orb, mass land destruction, 30 counterspells, 15 boardwips or Niv-Mizzet combo. Don't make your playpartner hate the time with you, or you might be alone soon.
Playing against rhystic study really reads "your spells cost one more to cast unless you're stupid"
No that would be fair. it actually read your spells cost one more to cast until someone else is stupid
@@mark1A100 it's a optional tax, if someone chooses not to pay the tax then that's on them.
@@mark1A100 you right, you right
I think Drannith Magistrate is fine. I really don't see it any worse than Song of the Dryads, Oubliette, Darksteel Mutation, etc. Actually, I think it's LESS salty because it shuts everyone down, not just that one player, so it's more likely to get that removal from someone. Single-target commander shutdowns are way more brutal! Slap that Darksteel Mutation on the mono-black commander... Let's see how long it takes for him to draw a Feed the Swarm... And none of the other players will remove it FOR him.
Just because there are other cards that hate commanders more isn't a great argument, but I see Drannith Magistrate as a stalling card that also hates specific strategies and wincons. It's extremely easy to remove, and every other opponent will (usually) want to remove it, so it will almost certainly get removed at some point.
I definitely see the argument about cards that hate on commanders being cast... But don't we already have Meddling Mage, Gideon's Intervention, Nevermore, and Voidstone Gargoyle? And like I said before, I personally thinking hating on ONE person's commander is much saltier. (but, again, not a great argument)
So down a different avenue about the direction of Commander - We have cards now that give FREE value for controlling your commander. (many of which were mentioned here) So doesn't it make sense that we'd have cards that prevent players from getting that value for free?
Drannith Magistrate is a feels bad card. I run a decent amount of interaction in all my decks. Usually 12 cards in my deck can interact. Usually like a 4/8 split between board wipes and spot removal. I think that’s a lot of interaction for a deck to run without starting to interfere with your decks plan. I was running a Phylath deck and seen a drannith magistrate. I just didn’t really do anything that game until that player was dead. I didn’t draw into my alternative plans or interaction. That was a boring game for me for a lot of turns. Lol
@James Black people’s argument is run more ways to deal with Magistrate. Point of my story is that you can run enough interaction without weakening your decks plan and it still won’t help you. If I had added more interaction, my deck wouldn’t be doing its thing anymore.
I understand where Crim is coming from with ramp, because I don't get why GREEN one color out of FIVE has the most affinity for LANDS. You know, lands, that thing that's so vitally important to play the game because it determines how many spells you cast, the potential power of the spell (due to cmc). And worse yet, we are highly against their destruction, even though some people will not even think about blowing up my signet! "I will pop your signet because it gives +1 mana and that's unfair. I'll play rampant growth getting me an additional mana." Like why?! WHHHYYY?! Either normalize land destruction or give green a better gimmick. Or maybe even more tutor hate or balance effects.
And in regards to people who think I'm targeting green. Yes. Yes I am. Because of green, other decks are forced to run fast mana to beat out green before they start turning things sideways.
Oh and in regards what makes me salty. Cards that reward players for just playing the game. Landfall, I was always going to want to play a land for turn. Thank you for allowing me to generate value via base game mechanics. Or, pacts and or forces. Yes. I will exile a card from my hand with the same name to play my card. And you would have never been able to for-see it because I tapped out earlier. Fair and balanced gameplay. Not skill hostile at all in commander. I TOTALLY want to thoughtseize one of my three opponents. Not a waste at all, and I'm totally opening it the same time they have their free spell.
If green ramping out of control is ok, then MLD is ok, and this is a hill I'll die on.
^^^^^
I agree wholeheartedly
where can i find your card ban list for your play group? would like to make a casual deck with no major salt cards and no mana rocks
I find it funny that crim put feirce guardianship at a C but kodama’s reach at an A, stating the fact that it cheats on mana as the reason.
rofl i just got home from my weekly commander group where i got hated for resolving an armageddon finding this salty tier list video like it was destiny. i closed out the game that already took about 45min 5min after armageddon, but the people just couldn´t stand making nothing but watch and breath for 3 very fast turncycles. really loved to hear your arguments for and against it ♥
Thank you for improving the health of the fun casual format
@@kingfuzzy2 it´s like you didn´t watch the video and listen to the arguments at all...
To be fair, I understand Tomer's salt about Study in a Seth playgroup. I would definitely focus on Seth over the Study player though. Nothing tilts me like poor play that creates lopsided games.
Love the conversations the Crew has, this one certainly being no exception. I’m a big fan of allowing quality discussions to be as long as they need to be, and it that happens to exceed an hour or whatever the typical runtime is, all good 🙂
Tomer: Rhystic study is bad!
Anyone: Just play a removal spell
Richard: Drannith Magistrate is bad
Tomer: just play a removal spell
Hmmm……
Insane card advantage on a card type that's relatively difficult to remove, VS a 1/3?
@@Frostgiantbutsmall every color (except green) has an abundance of creature removal especially for 3 toughness creatures. Only a couple have meaningful removal for enchantments. That’s not an even comparison but the removal argument is trash anyway. Removal existing doesn’t mean just everything is fine.
@@ms.sysbit5511 green has fight spells, if you don't have a creature that can fight and kill a 1/3 then what kind of green deck are you running?
@@Frostgiantbutsmall play more diverse removal, its out there, there are ways to do it, regardless my point stands; using the same argument for a card you aren’t salty about that someone uses for a card that you are…just drives home the point that the entire premise of this episode is entirely emotionally driven.
@@atk9989 but those aren’t particularly playable and I didn’t feel like that imo pointless tangent. Playable green removal for creatures is basically Beast Within which is fine imo.
Opp agent isnt just a 2 for 1 its a fucking 4 for 1. You get a creature, you stop a tutor, you get a tutor, and you get to see the persons hand of the tutor you stopped and stole since you control them during the search you have access to that information.
Oddly enough, Crim's take on Fierce Guardianship is turning me around on the card. I don't want to see more of these made, but it's true that the white and blue from this cycle help me get out my commander and at least keep it for a round.
I play extra turns in my blue decks that are combat focused, because I don't have extra combat step cards.
The only valid card to play and not pay Rhystic Study's tax is: Krosan Grip when it targets it.
On the topic of drannith magistrate I'll say this. In my early commander days I was very much an all or nothing commander player. If my commander wasn't on the battlefield I wasn't really doing anything or enjoying my deck. My playgroup is fairly removal heavy, which was super frustrating, but I started looking at deck building differently. My commander became a big supporter of my game plan, but they were no longer the linchpin holding the deck together. I think that decks that are unable to deal with drannith magistrate are probably not well equipped to deal with any problem permanent. Yes, maybe it hurts one player more than others. The immortal sun shuts down planeswalker commanders, but I don't hear arguments against it. And at the end of the day, if your deck cannot function without the commander, that's a deck building problem
But still, even if a deck is capable of dealing with it, often you just don't have the right answer available. The problem with this card is that it is just a hate card, nothing less, nothing more. Of course it is salt inducing. Why not do something constructive with your deck instead of putting this card into the 99. It's not like I get extremely impressed if someone plays it and think wow that's a really cool play right there!
I love how Tomer's point on why a card isn't salty is that when you play it, everyone else gets mad at you and takes you out. 😂
1:11:00 For the point about Drannith Magistrate, isn't the whole point of Commander is to be a casual format where you build around this one creature that you always have access to? You don't always wanna have a back up plan and/or be the most efficient. Like with Voltron it hurts that entire archetype, which already isn't very good. If your commander doesn't matter to your overall deck strategy then why play Commander at all? It's not the most salt educing card for sure, but I would say its definitely still pretty annoying, more so than a D rank anyways.
I just use my commander for the colours who even needs to build around your commander with all of the Janky and fun cards out there?
@@kingfuzzy2 I suppose different people's enjoyment come from different places. It just seems weird for them to want more cards that shut down an integral part of the format, but that's just me I guess.
Crim: "The cheating of rules by playing more than one land is horrible, and dumb!"
Also Crim: "Stealing someone's cards and countering their spells so that they can't play the game = fun. Fierce Guardianship (which cheats on reources) is fine."
What are you smoking, sir?
Too much Blue mana.
Claiming "gatekeeping" as an argument against Dranith Magistrate is the dumbest non-argument I've heard in a while. If your deck is built poorly that you completely fold to a 1/3 because your commander is not on the field, it is narrow and bad deck building and that is on you. It is not "gatekeeping," for there to be a defense against stupid commanders that win the game on the spot. The only thing dumb about Magistrate is that it is asymmetrical.
Listening to Crim makes my head hurt. "I would cast it as a 3 mana negate on it's own" in reference to Fierce Guardianship....😅🤣🤣 really?
Hardcore Blue playing lying while smiling, classic
Is a 3 mana Negate bad? This card is busted bc it's too easy to pitch, and only being 1 mana more expensive than Negate is its sole downside! If it costs 5 mana like FoW then it'll be at least one tier lower imo.
So cards in general don't make me salty. If I agree to play Yugioh, I agree to play a combo focus hyperspeed game. If I agree to play Cardfight Vanguard, I agree to play with the swingy random trigger mechanic. If I agree to play Magic the Gathering, I agree to play with every card that is legal in that format, whether it is "fun" or not. So blow up my lands, make me pay the one. Those are the rules of the game we all agreed to play. What makes me salty is the players. People that hold ridiculous grudges across multiple games, or people that troll. We all agreed to play a game to the best of our ability, and that should be what everyone aims to do. And when they don't, that's when the game starts getting annoying.