Reacting to ESPN Top 100 MLB Players of All Time Rankings
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 лют 2022
- GiraffeNeckMarc reacts to the awful ESPN Top 100 MLB Players of All Time Rankings
#MLB #ESPN #Baseball
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🐦 / giraffeneckmarc
📷 / giraffeneckmarc
⏰ / giraffeneckmarc
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Business Email: giraffeneckgaming@gmail.com - Спорт
Think about this folks, in 1938 Lou Gehrig batted .295 with 29 home runs, 114 RBI, 32 doubles, 6 triples, and OPS of .932; he did all of that while he was dying. Incredible.
That's why he's the 2nd greatest Yankee of all time and could have been the best if not for the illness.
@@franzreyes846 his career numbers were mind blowing, I think he gets overlooked sometimes because of playing so much of his career alongside Babe. Not that he's an unknown or anything like that, but it just seems like a lot of people see him as the sidekick. And I think it's also worth noting that they both had better numbers because of each other, and it was also a way different era, but there weren't very many in history that put up numbers like Gehrig.
Gehrig had 1,995 career RBI’s hitting behind Babe Ruth
Pitching wasn't near as good back then
We’re all dying
Jeter being higher than Pujols should be a federal crime
Amen. That drove me nuts! The guy has almost 700 HR's!
No 🧢
Trout being above Pujols (as of now) is also asinine
All cardinals fans where the heck is yadi at
@@ethankibbey1976 idk, trout could easily be a top 10 player at the end of his career.
I didn't realize Pujols was so amazing. I grew up seeing Pujols do his thing, but it never occurred to me to revisit his stat line now that it's over.
What a legend.
Yeah I'm looking at this list and I'm trying to find Albert and I've seen the top 20 and he's not there so I'm just going to stop looking because that's disrespectful. Albert is easily top five especially after what he's been doing.
When it's all said and done he's going to be in the 700 home run club. He is crushing stats.
@@iamthepapi6251 he’s gotta be top 5. 700 something nukes.
The Machine as a nickname is one of the most appropriate nicknames in sports history. There was a stretch of like 6 or 7 years where it felt like he had no holes. He was a hitting machine. The best hitter I’ve ever seen besides juiced up bonds
Pujols was TERRIBLE in the last half of his career
Molina is definitely top 100
Hornsby needs to be talked about SO much more than he does. Who cares what era you’re in when you hit .358/.434/.577 FOR YOUR WHOLE CAREER
Nazi
You should do your own top 100 list. This list is crazy and I think ESPN was on something when doing this
I feel u where was yadi molina
@@ethansnyder2331 I don't think Yadi is particularly close to top-100 all time. He's not even a sure-fire HoFer (I think he will get in, but he isn't a HoFer in everyone's book)
No he shouldn’t if he thinks shoeless Joe Jackson should be a hall of famer even though he was apart of the first big scandal in the mlb and threw a World Series for money. Enough said right there
@@NotoriouCC still one of the greatest of all time. He played baseball at the highest level possible, you people need to stop using these character arguments for these people. They still make as some of the best baseball players on the planet, so these arguments are ridiculous!
@@scottrothbaum8296 he first ballot greatest catcher of all time
I will die on the hill that Clemente is a top 25 player. 3000 hits, .317 average, 12 STRAIGHT gold gloves and probably one of if not the best defensive outfielder ever. Not to mention his cultural impact.
Also if you're putting closers on this list no Hoffman or Eckersley?
whats his career iso
@@Vlodkkdksp 😒
Every body who plays know Clemente is top 20
@@kobeisthegoat332 not true.
@@kobeisthegoat332 no
“Playing against plumbers” is already being accounted for in these guys WAR stats. These guys from past eras were standard deviations above their contemporaries at playing the game. Obviously modern day guys have access to training and coaching and metrics that old timers didn’t, but that should only add to their greatness. Babe Ruth was crushing balls with no diet or weight lifting or launch angle stats or lowered pitching mound. Sure pitchers might not have had the same velocity back then, but they had doctored balls and hitters had 40 ounce bats. Sometimes they used the same ball for the entire game, with scuffs and scrapes that added insane movement to pitches. Greatness should be measured as the amount of separation between one player and an average player from that time. You can’t penalize guys for the era they played in, for all we know those guys would be just as dominant today if given access to what current guys have. How dominant would Cy Young be if he had 5 days rest between starts or a bullpen behind him, or coaches teaching him about spin rate? Current guys have the luxury of learning from all that came before them, those original guys set the standard for what greatness looks like.
This is one of the best comments I've ever read. With that being said, Scott Rolen should be on this list, and is pretty comparable with jeter tbh.
Thank you. One of the best comments I’ve ever read
Sure but it’s incredibly hard in the modern day to separate yourself in a big way from the rest of the pack when the average player is just insane at the game. So there’s an argument for modern day guys having the time in which they played used against them as well. Obviously some average player today should never be mentioned in the same breath as Ruth even if they literally could go back in time and be better…but at some point there has to be a middle ground. Guys 100 years from now will be a million times better than Ruth, at what point do we start dropping the Babe down a few spots? IMO any perennial all star 100 years from now should start overtaking these legends, even if they aren’t LEAPS and BOUNDS better than the rest of their contemporaries.
@@WaakikiTheGoat avg players are not that good this why old timers don’t like y’all avg players bro just because they get paid 30 million ad they are avg doesn’t mean that’s good.
@@WaakikiTheGoat avg player today only get paid because what you think they can do…. That’s the problem it’s WHAT YOU HAVE DONE….. Trout md. Fr other joule be the only one getting paid max others no because they are not on that level
John Smoltz is always tough to rank because the man is one of the greatest postseason baseball players ever. Despite logging the 3rd most innings pitched in postseason history, his postseason ERA is only 2.67. And his win-loss is 15-4
same with ortiz. i feel like october is its own stat
Yount would be higher if he played in a big market. He won a MVP at two different positions.
🧢
okay buddy but george brett was in the tiniest market of all time and he still makes many lists
@@gcubed5451 I just googled smallest MLB markets and Milwaukee came up. I also agree Brett would be a bigger name in other markets.
@@Akizzle8 ok that’s fair yount was a contact on base man and I’m sorry I was ‘angryish’ in the first comment
@@gcubed5451 No worries.
I can’t believe they forgot Tim Locastro.
Hes good but the only thing he has going for him is speed
@@user-cb1jn1ll8s and being tim locastro
Not to mention Jeff Mathis
@@osfaningaming1179 Best hitter in MLB
@@rashiroselin 100%
The most under ranked player on the entire list is Lefty Grove at #54. His 3.06 career ERA doesn't probably wow people. But, when ranking the greatest pitchers, I believe you have to look at how they compared to the counterparts of their era. The fact of the matter is Grove pitched when the league ERA was about as high as it ever was. He won nine ERA titles in his career, which is the most ever. Grove also went 59-9 over a two-year span. I believe he's a top 10-15 player of all-time and probably the 2nd greatest pitcher ever.
I agree. Grove has a very strong case for the greatest pitcher of all time.
Yeah he’s way to low. His career 148 era+ is 1 point ahead of Walter Johnson who is probably the greatest pitcher of all time. Only Kershaw(155) and Pedro Martinez(154) have a higher era+ among pitchers with 2000 innings and lefty pitched more than 1 thousand more innings(3940.2) than either of them.
148 Career ERA+ (he was 48% better than league average) for 17 years in the highest scoring leagues of all time. With no timelining - he's top 20 all time, especially if there's an adjustment for his pre MLB days when he was MLB caliber, but the minor league system was different and didn't serve to feed MLB. I'd go with Walter Johnson and Roger Clemens ahead, maybe Satchel Paige (if you project his career out). He's better than Pedro, Big Unit, Maddux, Bob Gibson and even Seaver.
Not only that, if he were to start he would finish, bullpens weren’t really much of a thing back then so pitching achievements back then should be praised more as starting 60+ fucking games without modern nutrition and workouts. They played as if rest days weren’t a thing.
Played against carpenters
Babe Ruth's career average ops+ was 206. The dude played for 22 years. At 39 he had a 201 ops+ season. He just hit different. On a different planet.
you could have a 500 ops iplus f you timetravelled back in time
also when pitchers were throwing 80 mph
@miner7273 yeah. But you have to compare him to what he faced. You don't suddenly get insane in a vacuum. He would have been better had he had better players to play against. Would he have been as good compared to the average? No. But he would have been a good player regardless.
Babe Ruth being able to focus full time on baseball was UNCOMMON. When players couldn’t play they would grab high school pitchers who needed teachers notes
@@TheBlackWaltzyeah who he faces was guys wi th second jobs. The equivalent today the “average” player of the time are minor leaguers making 60k and the Czech WBC team. If 70% of the league were as good as the Czech team, any all star would become a godly player. Not to mention, Lou Gehrig faced fewer unique pitchers in his career than Trout did in a couple years. Relievers coming in pumping 102 with movement just never happened, batters are reactionary, and batters today have to react way more and way better.
Derek Jeter being higher than guys like Tony Gwynn, Ichiro, and even Albert Pujols is atrocious
Tony Gwynn makes total sence jeter was just better
He should be over Gwynn but not Pujols and Ichiro
@@Bernie_Madoff no 🧢
@@rays4life827 No he’s not
@@followthebrickroad6518 he is
Babe Ruth played from 1914 to the mid 30's, Stan Musial 1941 to the early 60s, Mays 1951 to the early 70s, Hank was similar to Mays in years, Mantle 1951 to late 60s. Lou Gehrig 1923 to 1939. Now I'm using these 6 guys because I figured that guys like you would agree that these 6 guys deserve to be Top 20/10 guys. I put the years they played beside them for you to understand how disrespectful it is to discredit other guys from their eras. You'll bash guys like Mathewson, Ty Cobb, and Johnson but praise Ruth and Gerig. You even accepted the negro league players like Gibby and Paige. What I'm trying to say is consistency. Just because you don't care about players before you were born doesn't mean they aren't great players or deserve to be on this list.
Paying homage is one thing but saying these old Mfers are better than the modern players is ludicrous.
100% agree with this. In a sport as old as baseball, you HAVE to make comparisons between vastly different eras if you want to have the conversation at all. Sure, the game has changed to the degree that if you took Ty Cobb through a time machine to hit against a Degrom or a Kershaw, he'd look terrible. But if you sent baby Degrom and Kershaw back to 1900, they'd be giving up .400 averages to Cobb like everybody else. Plus it feels silly to argue that old players are bad because they have inflated statistics and then ignore the indisputably inflated statistics of the steroid users.
I firmly believe that every above average high school pitcher in the country could strike out Babe Ruth if given the chance
Amen! You hit the nail on the head!
I am not blaming Ruth and other old time players for playing in the era they played in but playing in a segregated era has to be a fault in all of their careers. We view segregation today as such a inhuman act there is no way you can overlook it. I would still put Ruth top 5 but putting him number 1 just seems wrong
Doesn’t count pitchers because of dead ball era but loves every hitter that took steroids
Ricky Henderson is criminally underrated, at 24. Fight me!
i'm not a Ricky fan but I agree with you. There is simply no way to gauge his impact on a game. Because of the pitcher being so distracted with him on base the hitters were more effective
Idk what was worse, this list or Rob Manfred
Rob
Manfraud
Burn
And I ment it was a burn
I was surprised to see Lou Brock not on the top 100
Yes he should be there, not Bryce Harper.
Hank Aaron?
I was wondering what you were going to say about Barry, and I completely agree. Pre roids he was a goat, 5 tool player. Insane bat speed, insane baseball IQ. No one has ever been as feared as Barry Bonds. In an era where EVERYONE was on the juice, he surpassed all of them by leaps and bounds
i feel like Giants players just get disrespected tho
Clemente was the first Hispanic player to accomplish many feats in the majors. He was the first to win a World Series as a starter, be named league MVP, be named World Series MVP and be elected to the Hall of Fame. 13. He finished his career with exactly 3,000 hits.
Funny that you mentioned Stan Musial & Ken Griffey Jr. in the same sentence. They were both both on the same day in the same small town in Pennsylvania
Putting bonds at number 8 is an insult to anybody who’s ever watched a second of baseball and been within 250 miles of San Francisco or Pittsburgh
The numbers are ridiculous, but his impact on the game was even bigger. Best to ever do it, but I could see him landing at 2 because Ruth was SO MUCH BETTER than his contemporaries.
*1000000 miles of sr or pitt
But to the non-homers it's probably just about right.
Cap Anson introduced the hit and run, he started the signals relayed from the third base coach and more importantly he started Spring Training!!!’ He had a huge effect on baseball!!!
He also permitted himself from playing with black players lmao kind of forgotten about him that he basically prolonged segregation in the sport but definitely the first big name in the sport even before Babe
@@WideHarryCock Yea I knew someone was going to bring that into this. I mean 90% of the ball players between 1878-1930 were segregationist and didn’t want to share a field with a minority. Look up Charlie Grant. John McGraw tried to pass him off as a Native American but ended up being caught after 30 days. This was 50 years before Jackie Robinson.
I think Pedro's placement is perfect. I just watched a video on his career, what he did against the best hitters of the steroid era was historical.
Pedro was the sickest pitcher I have ever seen and I am 64.
For a second I thought you said histarcal
As an Orioles fan I was pumping my fists in the air when Marc talked about Cal
This might be my Orioles bias but I would take Ripken ALL DAY over Jeter. And Eddie Murray is DEFINITELY a top 100 player
Derek Jeter is overrated with offense and defense SS.
I think a lot of younger people mistakenly rate Cal too low because he moved to 3rd. I'm 37, when I started watching baseball at around 11 or 12 I think he was already a third baseman.
@@shotimefans808 he’s overrated defensively. Not offensively.
Edit: he obviously doesn’t belong above Pujols, so maybe overrated in this regard
I’m a Yankees fan and let me tell you, if Ripken was on the Yankees he’d be top 10 with jeter’s accolades cuz hes just better. it looks like Yankee bias
@@MrLT3685 Ripken was a shortstop most of career unlike A-Rod, for Ripken to only played 3B briefly early on into his time and much later on the older he got until retirement.
Hey man I’m a new subscriber watching some old videos, I doubt you see this but had a question. Where does a guy like Dustin Pedroia go on a list like this. Not a great power guy but a phenomenal player in my eyes. Wanted your opinion if he deserved to be on this list
The phrase "If you put Walter Johnson in the Top 10, you might as well put Mike Trout" might be the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
You're underappreciating Ty Cobb. He had better BA and more hits than most of your fav's - Aaron, Mays, Bonds. And there were great pitchers back then- Matthewson, Johnson, Young.
I’m pretty sure by OPS+ he’s top 5 ever definitely among guys that didn’t take steroids I think I would have him at 6 and he has an argument to be higher, but definitely underrated
He also slugged over .500 for his career while only hitting 117 homeruns, which is mind-blowing to me.
@@seanfloody3282 that’s partially due to the ballparks they played in. Outfields that make Coors look like Yankee Stadium
@@mattforbes221 Exactly guys that were fast and good baserunning routinely had 40+ doubles and double digit triples.
I think you're right on people like Mo or Jeter being overall in the right spots if it was in a vacuum, but the placement of other people like Bob Gibson and Pujols is what makes it feel wrong
This big thing that I think always set Ruth apart is he was an all time top 3 hitter for sure, but also a pretty dominant pitcher AND having only played 17 seasons whereas other hitters at the top play 20+ and he hit 700+ home runs in only 10k plate appearances. The other top hitters in the home run list all have 12k or more
Well said.
I believe Ruth still holds some World Seriies pitching records.
I would argue for Walter Johnson staying in the top 10. 110 shutouts is still 110 shutouts.
The live ball era started 1920-21 Walter Johnson pitched seven seasons in that era, and still dominated.
Walter Johnson's fastball was retroactively estimated at 95 mph on flat ground, in a Sunday suit of trousers and dress shoes. He was throwing at an army base in a contraption that used to measure shell average velocity for their artillery. He got 83-84 mph on his fastball throwing sidearm. However, if you take the speed out of the hand, and adjust for how they were measuring the average velocity, today his fastball in the same setup would be measured on our radar guns at around 94-95 mph.
Now you put the man in cleats, get him on a one foot tall mound in baseball uniform, and have him throw downhill. What kind of speed is that on a fastball? I argue his release speed was close to 100 miles per hour from a sidearm slot. A 100 mph fastball from a sidearm slot would give guys problems today. Walter Johnson is an all-time great.
You’re totally correct. Walter Johnson pitched well in both eras, which kinda proves you can include both eras into consideration.
Absolutely. He's a young guy and a lot of his reactions to older players were borderline ridiculous. Arguing against Walter Johnson was the worst example.
I actually dont think the list is that bad. Everyone will always have disagreements with these lists and I do too but ESPN could have done much worse with their track record. To me they got the top 3 right and everything else is personal opinion. (Besides Pujols they really sold him)
and ARod
And Bonds
I definitely think you need to do your top 100, because you seem to have mentioned more than 10 players that should "definitely" be top ten, haha :) I'd like to see how you fit them all in....
Easy put some as fractions like 1 3/4
The fact Jim Thome is somehow at 98!?!?!?! Wtf?! Needs to be top 60-70
Joe Posnanski's "The Baseball 100" is a great look at this topic. One player he said was a final cut that hurt to not include (speaking of snubs from both lists) was Minnie Minoso, so I've just gotta shout him out!
Marc, I'd love to see a video from you where you go through Negro League players' stats and learn about them in real time. Could be a 2nd channel or live stream project, but I think your reactions to fully grasping these guys' careers would be such fun content.
You could begin with looking into Oscar Charleston! He isn't just one of the best Negro Leaguers ever, he's arguably a top-25 MLB player all time now that the Negro Leagues have integrated. His numbers are mind blowing.
Great video Marc!
I almost stopped reading the list when I saw Thome at 98.... 98!! 612 Home Runs! Come on ESPN, be better!
Pedro’s reason they outlined in the article were is peak years, especially 99-00, which were the two best adjusted ERA since 1900 (basically era vs. league average).
I would love to see your Top 100 list for sure because this one had all kinds of nonsense in it. I totally agree with the fact that you really can’t compare modern day era and the old era together. Hopefully you can put something together for us tho that would be great. 🤙🏼
My all-time lineup would be:
C. Bench
1B. Pujols
2B. Rose
3B. Schmidt
SS. Ripken
LF. Bonds
CF. Mays
RF. Aaron
DH. Ortiz
It’s hard leaving off guys like Ruth, Gehrig, Williams, Cobb, but baseball is just so tough to rank. It needs to be compared by era, so obviously the late 1800s/early 1900s players are their own era, and even the mid 1900s players are tough to compare with the more modern day players. There really is no right answer.
edgar martinez at dh??? he is the best dh oat
@@mo_k5582 Yeah Edgar is better
@@mo_k5582 you're probably right. They're definitely the top 2 though. Ortiz was great in the postseason, and was a great hitter in his own right, but Edgar certainly was the better overall hitter. It's close.
C bench. 1st babe. 2nd Rose SS cal jr 3 rd. Brook Robinson. of… Bonds, Speaker, Cobb. Pitchers Cy young, lefty groove. Rand Johnson
Shortstop A-Rod
Kershaw has had a greater career than Koufax yet Sandy is ranked 20 spots higher… how is that possible
No🧢
Koufax had a greater peak period into his prime, though I must admit for Kershaw to had a better career.
@@J_Ru31352: might want to check out Kershaw's peak again. From 2011 to 2017, he went 118-41 with a 2.10 ERA (179 ERA+). If Koufax's peak (111-34, 1.95 ERA, 167 ERA+) was better than Kershaw's the difference is negligible, considering the eras they played in). Koufax had the higher mound and lesser competition, middle infielders of that time simply didn't present a threat in the 1960s. But Kershaw's peak was several years longer, and compares extremely well to Koufax's five year run.
@@ElCrab Koufax was a 3X triple crown. And led the league in ERA 5 times. He also won 4 World Series and was clutch while Kershaw is the biggest choker ever.
Jeter was "defensively overrated" is putting it mildly.. His career DRS is -162, that's catastrophically bad. Goes to show how meaningless gold gloves are.
Randy Johnson is CRIMINALLY underrated on this list. IMHO he's the best modern pitcher.
Best pitcher ever period
Id love to see your top 100 all time! Especially if the lockout delays baseball
It would be hard to find 100 good Mets players. all this guy would pick is crummy Mets.
Marc, can you do a jersey collection tour? Think about it there aren’t much news since the lockout. (BTW I know he did one like 2 years ago)
The only reason Rogers Hornsby didn't get to 3,000 hits is because he mainly because he took a backseat as a player after his age 33 season as he took on managerial roles. In his last 8 seasons, he only played more than 50 games twice.
19:58 poor choice of words man😭😭
Derek Jeter's rating is the most egregious. He shouldn't be ranked ahead of Nolan Ryan, and should probably be somewhere in the 75-90 range. He isn't even a top ten shortstop, and definitely not top 25 of all players to ever play in MLB.
Lmao who are the top 10 shortstops then
@@haterzzbehatinn looks like I hurt a Jeter fanboy's feelings. Jeter wasn't even the best SS on his team. The best shortstop on the Yankees was the third baseman.
@@RFP15 nothing about hurting my feelings lmao Im just curious bc I dont think you can name them
@@haterzzbehatinn I highly doubt that. Youre exhibiting a classic case of butthurt.
@@haterzzbehatinn Appling, Yount, Ripken, A-Rod, Banks, and Wagner were all leaps and bounds better than Jeter, and this is coming from a diehard Yankees fan. You can throw in Smith, Trammell, and Larkin as well.
20:00 “lou gehrig was so sick tho”
Lou Gehrig and Shoeless Joe are two of the biggest “coulda beens” in baseball. (There are plenty others of course, but i recently just watched documentaries about both these legends haha)
Rafael Palmeiro is so underrated. Dude had over 500 HRs and over 3000 hits.
Some of my observations from the list.
1) Top heavy on players who had their prime years before 1970.
2) Underrates catchers once you get past Bench and maybe Berra.
3) Jeter is a top 100 player, and maybe top 75, but he is definitely not top 30. Ripken, Morgan, and Jackie Robinson as middle infielders are all better IMO. From a career standpoint he is similar state wise to Biggio and Alomar who both overlapped a good chunk of their careers with Jeter. He is also similar state wise to Yount. Biggio wasn't top 100, with Yount/Alomar at the tail end of the list, and Ripken much lower. Jeter should have been in the range of those other middle infielders. The Yankee logo isn't worth the 40-50 ranking spots he is getting.
4) A couple additional missed honorable mentions to me: Biggio and Eckersley
5) Rivera made me raise an eyebrow because I don't value 1 inning specialists as high as the ESPN folks did on this list.
Sounds like someone is a redsox fan
@@aidanmcbride3236 Sounds like somebody is a Yankee fan.
@@MrLT3685 you seem to forget the impact on baseball part when talking about Derek jeter. Other than Jackie, Derek pro has the most impactful career ever
@@aidanmcbride3236 , everything Eric said was spot on. Jeter over Pujols is the most laughable thing I have ever seen from a baseball perspective. Jeter and Mo are great, but there's no way either should be as high as they are.
1 inning specialist? LMAOOOO you mean greatest closer of all time? 😂😂😂 also none of the old timers should be ranked higher than modern players. It just is what it is but people can’t let go of the past
still trying to figure out how someone with almost 700 all time homers isnt in the top 20 Pujols was disrespected
Big time disrespect there
Should be top 5 tbh
Miguel Cabrera being ranked number 59 is an absolute JOKE.
Barry Bonds was literally Supernatural. To rank him 8th, you HAVE to be punishing him for steroids, which was not one of the criteria.
Fun fact: the silhouette of the mlb logo is Harmon Killebrew
Wow I thought it was killebrew
It is Harmon...
@@joeheckelsmiller my bad worded that wrong
It’s actually me
@@ixg1297 yeah I see the resemblance
Having David Ortiz at 63 and not having Edgar Martinez on it at all when Edgar had a better career is insane.
Just a popularity contest. Edgar had to wait 10 years to get into the hall of fame but papi is a first ballot. Just ridiculous.
Edgar didn’t have a better career, and shouldn’t be a hall of famer.
@@RFP15 Edgar did though, just look at the stats. Edgar was better in every meaningful stat other than home runs.
Biggest snub, imo.
@@cobrallama6236 I agree, just as a baseball player he deserved it, but when you consider what he did to help keep baseball in Seattle, I think he should be there for sure.
I thought Eddie Murray would make it. Over 500 homers, over 3000 hits, i always feel he gets underlooked a LOT
Absolutely should be on the list. If there's room for Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz, it's not even a question that Eddie belongs.
@@davidconrades7524 thank you. I always thought David Ortiz is overrated. Guys have put up numbers bigger than his in less time. He struck out quite a bit. He was good. Hit a lot of homers and RBIs but still. I never liked him that much
Dude Griff Jr at 13? The dude saved baseball in Seattle AND GOT HIS STATLINE CLEAN during the steroid era!
I feel like my man Miggy got a bit screwed up in here
Overall I don't think the list was that bad, what stuck out to me the most was how low eddie Collins was
Darrel Strawberry, D, Gooden, Jim Rice, Was Fred McGriff even on that list. Don Mattley . Vince Coleman , Omar vizquel , man that list is bonkers
“Lou Gehrig was so sick tho” 💀
In 1998, Bonds became the first player ever with 400 HR and 400 SBs and baseball barely noticed. So he said, ‘fine, if that’s the way you want it,’ then juiced up and obliterated all the HR/SLG records.
I don’t blame him at all. He was the best player of his generation and got relegated to the back pages b/c of a couple of sideshow freaks. Baseball was 100% complicit, then turned around and made him the villain. He’s a tragic hero.
What a stupid excuse to make for him
@@Looch27 not an excuse it's fact....
Not a tragic hero, that's Griffey. Bonds is an anti-villain. He turned to the dark side but he never truly acted like it. He still did wrong but was overly villainized for it.
@@shoukatsukai I see that argument esp with Griffey with his injuries...but bonds was the scapegoat imho....take away his pre steroid years and he's a HOF
how about Clemens?? whats he supposed to do? he sees whats going on, so hes got to to the same as the hitters.
I agree with Marc that Bonds is a bit low on the list. I don’t think he should be #1, though. I would have him at #3. That’s just my opinion.
barrys onlyt problem was his defence a bitbut he was the best hitter in history by a huge margin
also babe ruth was playing against people throwing 80 or 75 max
@@ozzuzzomgbonds defense was a problem? He won 8 gold gloves😂
Bonds is low on the list, but anywhere you put him in the top 5-6 guys is justifiable IMO
💀 most putouts by an left fielder and 8 gold gloves
Unpopular Opinion: Trout has been inflated because MLB has been desperate for a post steroid era superstar. He’s an incredible talent with big numbers but is still missing something in order to be considered as high as he is
Love your channel man, I think that they need to separate certain generations when they talk about the greatest of all time. It’s not fair to rank players when they played in 1900 vs 2000’s
Biggest stub: Stevie Wilkerson. He has a 100% save percentage for his career.
Stevie Wilkerson > Mo
And talk about great primes, in July 2019 he had a 2.25 ERA and a 0.5 WHIP. This stretch is 60% of the games he every pitched in, so it’s his prime.
Call me Orioles bias but you can’t change my mind.
Didn't Ichiro have like almost 3000 hits before he even got to Mlb then like 2500 after. Mad respect to someone with like 5000 career knocks .
Ichiro was a better baseball player than Jeter. Better hitter, better glove, better base runner.
it’s hard to do these lists bc of how differently someone value was tracked not even that long ago. secret base recently showed us that dave stieb was one of the best pitchers of the 1990’s if not the best. and not many people knew his name.
Chipper has to be the single biggest miss on this list
100%
I disagree with Marc when he says Griffey is a "no doubt top 10 player".
Most of the slots up in the top 10 are reserved for guys 100%, no question about it, better than Griffey. Griffey from 1989-2001: 78.2 rWAR, Griffey from 2002-2010: 5.7 WAR. Griffey essentially put up Mike Trout-like numbers for the first portion of his career, and then played another decade of replacement-level baseball.
Griffey is no doubt a legend of the game, but top 10 is really a stretch IMO
As much as I personally disagree from personal bias, you make some really good points. This might be the most well thought out argument I've seen on baseball player rankings and you may have just changed my mind on where I put him
🧢
He hit 630 hrs even with all the injuries. He would have more hrs than bonds if it wasn't for all the injuries. Was arguably one of the best cf of all time defensively. For all the games he missed, it's not crazy to think he would have had over 800 hrs.
@@danday9697 and done it legit too
@@danday9697 But he still would have had to suit up and actually put up those numbers*. As a Mets fan, I'd love to think about David Wright's HoF chances if he didn't have medical issues force early retirement, but he unfortunately didn't get those chances. Baseball is littered with stud players who could have been even better if it weren't for injury. Hell, Mickey Mantle always believed he would've been even better if not for the injury he sustained during the 1951 World Series.
I'm not trying to detract from Griffey's career and legacy in any way, but there's just too many ballplayers who have no-doubt better careers.
Looking at hitters alone, you have: Ruth, Mays, Aaron, Bonds, Williams, Musial, A-Rod, Mantle, Schmidt, Henderson who were all better IMO, and that's before we even look at pitchers (there's also several more hitters I've omitted). If Griffey did end up going on to hit 800+ HRs, we might be having a different discussion, but that isn't the reality we live in.
*one exception: In my book, Ted Williams gets more of a pass than others for the years he missed while fighting WWII and Korea. It's crazy that he put up MVP caliber numbers pre-WWII, post WWII, and after his stint in Korea.
In 1943 Musial hit more triples than he stuck out, unreal
Greg Maddux has the most gold gloves all-time (18) as a pitcher.... #14 is legit for him. 355 wins, 4 CY. All-time great fielder AND pitcher. That puts him up higher!
one of the better hitting pitchers of the time too.
I have him at number 31. Maddux’s number is 31. In my mind, he is 31. Not as good as Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Pete Alexander, or Randy Johnson, but still pretty darn good.
I got Randy Johnson as the goat pitcher
Pudge Rodriguez was criminally low and Gary Carter deserved to be there 100%
Pudge being so low is blasphemous. In my opinion he should be higher than Piazza. I have him as the 2nd best catcher ever.
Somebody who never gets enough love on these lists is Al Kaline. I mean, he's basically level with Roberto Clemente, Kaline was a better hitter, Clemente the better fielder, though they were both talented on both sides of the ball. They both played at the same time, too, and their bWAR totals are very similar (fWAR thinks there's a bigger gap where Kaline is better.) And yet, in spite of that, Clemente ends up a full 44 positions higher? I know we all love Clemente, but Kaline wasn't some asshole, he was a nice guy.
Clemente was a better all around player than Kaline. Kaline had 7 more hits in 1300 more plate appearances. won 4 batting titles, MVP and performed at elite level when it counted most, the WS. With the leather, roberto was far superior. Kaline was a good player but is not on the same conversation as Clemente.
@@johnniepalacios9381 I don't care about hits or batting titles, Kaline had a higher OBP and a higher SLG than Clemente, and 159 more home runs. He was a much better hitter, and the only reason Clemente got an MVP and Kaline didn't was that the NL MVP voters didn't like giving Willie Mays the MVP every year, and Kaline's best years happened the same times Mickey Mantle was having the best 2-season stretch ever, and Carl Yastrzemski won the triple crown.
Also, Al Kaline hit .379/.400/ with 2 home runs in a World Series where he faced Bob Gibson 3 times. And this was the Bob Gibson who had just had a 1.12 ERA that season. So the idea that he was a playoff choker compared to Clemente is ludicrous.
So the differences between them are that Kaline was a better hitter because he walked more, struck out less, and hit for way more power, and Clemente was the better fielder. They both have extremely similar bWAR and fWAR numbers, and while I've separated them on their hitting and fielding, both of them were great on both sides of the ball. I don't think it's crazy to believe they should be very close to each other on an all-time ranking.
Yes, I would like to see you make a 100 ranking of the best players of all time.
Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa not being included in this list is criminal... those two saved baseball in 1998
They ruined it
See, I just disagree that Bonds is “no doubt” ahead of Mickey Mantle… Mantle was putting up those numbers when, as you said, “pitchers were dominant.” He also got hurt on that sprinkler head and played a lot of games hammered. That being said, to hit that consistently well from both sides of the plate from that era, to be arguably the best defensive outfielder of his time, and to have those numbers playing basically handicapped, he could arguably be ranked #1. We’re talking about greatest players after all, not greatest careers.
Cap
I think you might be doing a disservice to just how crazy bonds' numbers were, but a fully healthy Mickey Mantle career is one of my favorite baseball what-ifs.
@@JoshTheOther if you’re talking without mentioning steroids yeah Bonds hitting numbers are literally the best in the long history of baseball and certainly the best in the last 90 years so I agree he’s ahead of Mantle in conversation of all time players even taking into account how well rounded of a player Mantle was I still think it’s close though and for me steroids have to be at least part of the conversation and I think you have to mark him down at least a little bit, I mean it’s just unfair to compare someone who played entirely on his own abilities (and pre any real understanding of training/strength & conditioning/nutrition and it’s implementation in athletics) to a guy who let’s be honest without steroids isn’t top 5, probably not top 10 and maybe not even be that high (depending on how you project his career based on his pre steroids days) so even though I still think he’s certainly top 5 I don’t think I can put him over mantle and I think when ranking all time it would be disingenuous to act like he hit 73 homeruns on his own
bonds is the goat
I would actually hold playing hammered against a guy. :)
Can you make a list of your top 50 or 100 because I feel like to you everyone should be top 20
Fax, Ricky Henderson is actually underrated and like you said he deserves to get talked about and I actually think Ricky Henderson should be a top 20 player at least top 15 at most, his stolen base records are the most untouchable stats in all of sports
In his 20s and early 30s, Barry Bonds had an OPS+ of 163; he was a .288 career hitter who hit 32 homers and drew 102 walks a year. That's a Hall of Fame player. His decline years after the age of 35 would have brought his OPS+ down just a few points and he'd have finished with a career OPS+ of about 155, putting him around 27th all-time. Instead, he went BALCO and, in his late 30s and early 40s, he batted .322 with 40 homers and 141 walks a year and an OPS+ of 221, adding 317 homers and 1128 walks to the back of his baseball card. We don't know if Bonds was clean or using plain old steroids in his 20s and early 30s, but we know that from about age 35 on he was using fancy steroids that were way better than everyone else's steroids. As far as A-Rod, he was caught using steroids, swore he was innocent, eventually apologized for lying, used steroids again, was caught again, lied again, apologized for lying again. If he had played clean, his 8 seasons of hitting between 41 and 57 homers would have been 8 seasons of 25 to 34 homers (exactly what Ripken had). If, like Ripken, our hypothetical Clean A-Rod had the good fortune of playing a long time and never missing a single inning of a single game due to injury, he'd have wound up with around 431 homers (Ripken's total). If Williams, Ruth, Aaron, Mays, Mantle, Foxx, Schmidt, and Frank Robinson had used steroids, at least one of them would have hit a thousand homers... and if they had used BALCO steroids, maybe all of them would have hit a thousand homers and the record might be around 1200. Bonds definitely would have hit over a thousand homers if he'd used the BALCO steroids his entire career. I'm not trying to get anyone to tear their posters of Manny Ramirez and Sammy Sosa off the walls, but when you disrespectfully dismiss Honus Wagner and Christy Mathewson and Tris Speaker, you are embarrassing yourself.
Pujols should be top 5 without a doubt. His first 11 years in the league (Cardinals years) he hit .328 with an OPS over 1.000 and A TON of bold on Baseball Reference. His Cardinals years are literally awe inspiring to look at. 3 MVPs, top 3 in voting every year from 2002 to 2010, and arguably the greatest rookie year ever. Even until 2019 his season average was still .300/.379/.549 with 35 HR and 114 RBIs and a .927 OPS. Not to mention his career Postseason stats, in 86 games, of .321/.426/.581 with 19 HR and 54 RBIs and an OPS of 1.007. He is one of the greatest to do it in any sport.
top 25-20 for sure, but he fell off way too much after 30 to be top 5. All of Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle, Ty Cobb, and Stan Musial are very clearly better than Pujols.
I disagree with you based on your second sentence. If he had continued his pace after the first eleven years, I would agree. The last ten years.....the decline was pronounced.
Ruth has to be 1 no matter what. The question weighed impact on the game of baseball in with raw stats and WAR. Not only the best WAR of all time but no doubt the most famous player of all time. The man essentially accounted for the explosion of popularity in baseball by himself. Ruth is #1 all time and basically can’t be passed, especially when you include impact on the game into the equation.
I have to agree with you. It's well known that he didn't have more MVPs for two reasons. 1. Players weren't allowed to win it more than once in the beginning. 2. The writers didn't vote for him because he could have potentially won the award ten times.
He led the league in Runs Scored eight times, Home Runs twelve times, RBIs five times, Walks eleven times, Batting Average once, On Base Percentage ten times, Slugging Percentage thirteen times, OPS thirteen times, Total Bases six times. He even won 94 games as a pitcher and won 20 games in two different seasons.
Bob Feller was taking the league by storm before Pearl Harbor. Went right down and signed up for the Navy. Missed 4 prime years and still won 266 games. 3 no-hitters. if not for WWII, you're looking at 350 wins and 3500 strikeouts.
Agree 100%. If you look at Feller's best years before and after WWII, he was averaging more than 25 wins a year (25.5). If he maintained that pace, he would have had another 95 wins for a total of 361. Add another thousand strikeouts and 20+ shutouts and you have one of the greatest pitchers of all time.
Jimmie fox not being here is a war crime
Totally agree the Barry Bonds is hands down the best player ever!! 2500 walks and how many were intentional? It’s insane that he is not in the HOF is ridiculous!!
Uhhhhhh. Steroids. Cheated. Y would u put anyone in any sport on a hall of fame when they cheated?
@@davidmullineaux6157 Still the greatest player ever. Had won 4 MVPs before he started taking steroids. He only started taking them after the 98’ year when he watched how Sosa and McGuire got all the love during their HR run. There has never been a better player, ever. IMO
@@davidmullineaux6157 the HOF is meant to preserve history. The simple fact that one of the greatest players of all time isn’t in there is absurd. You say how can they let a cheater in but they already have done that many times, including last year
@@odinson1962 How do u know what his stats would be without roids. He was skinny and didn't hit a gazillion home runs before his melon headed huge body emerged. Also, how do you know how long he would have played without getting hurt w/o roids. Stop being so simple minded and think about it.
@@davidmullineaux6157 I'm well aware and I'm sure everyone else is to but it seems like you have missed the point
I believe Ralph Kiner belongs within the top 100. He led his league in homers so many years in a row.
I remember once studying his amazing stats and so I like your comment, if I remember right the comparatively short career was the only thing holding him back.
Wasn't his career cut short due to a back injury? Ted Kluszewski is another great player with career cut short by a back injury, he had an incredible four year run in the mid 50's.
the reason why there are those 1800's dudes is largely because of how great their careers were some of these dudes were playing in an era where walks counted as hits for awhile and these guys got like 3000 hits (again some were walks but even if you take those out they still have 3000 as that was the case for Cap Anson in his 1887 season which counted walks as hits) which is crazy that these guys even did that achievement during that time and it is crazy that for Cap Anson is he was the oldest to hit the 3000 hits. One reason i think Ichiro was so high up is he was just amzing breaking the single season hit record and if you add his hits from Japan he has more hits than Pete Rose.
Another thing to consider is if you look at Cap Anson's stats, he never played in more than 98 games for the first thirteen years of his career. He played in a total of 2524 games and 11331 plate appearances while Ty Cobb played 3034 games and 13103 plate appearances.
I agree with you on Barry Bonds(and steriods).
Was wondering where you would stand when i started the video.
The first snub that came to my mind was Jeff Bagwell as well.
.297/.408/.540 - 449 HR - 1,529 RBI - 79.9 bWAR - .993 Fld%
Not top 50, but I think he should be on the back end of the list.
Yeah Jeff Bagwell and Olerud definitely should have been there also Edgar Martinez is better than David Ortiz
Show me a stat that proves Edgar Martinez is better than Ortiz.
@@joel8692 BA, OPS, OPS+, WAR, RAR, WAA, RAA....Ortiz was a great power hitter, but that is literally all he had. He was a defensive liability even at 1st base.
Finally a someone that respects Barry bonds
GOAT
Did you ever do the personal top 100?
A few thoughts:
94. Bryce Harper. Well, he IS the best at wearing clown makeup - which is appropriate in his case - so ...
89. Joe Jackson. Don't forget that he WAS eligible for the HOF. He just didn't get enough votes and was dropped from the ballot. There's a lot of misinformation regarding that. I blame FOD. :)
69. Ozzie Smith: Agreed that his value is criminally over-rated. And I'm a Cardinals fan.
35. Josh Gibson. Hell, nothing against Josh, but I guess I'll submit MY name as another person who would probably have been the best to ever play the game had I played MLB as well, if we're making ridiculous claims. Everyone gives WAY too much respect to Negro League pitching/competition.
34. Pete Rose: He and George Brett were kind of the go-tos for us kids growing up in the 70s and early 80s who weren't touched by God in terms of natural baseball ability. And Reggie was the superstar.
30. Albert Pujols: Yeah. NFW he's not as good as some of the players higher up. The guy barely struck out for a good number of years while hitting for average and power, while other sluggers were regularly posting 100-K seasons.
25. Christy Mathewson: Yeah, pitching 12 innings per game would totally explain the career ERA being 2.13.
8. Barry Bonds: He absolutely was going to be an HOFer without the steroids. However, he gets no credit for how ridiculous those numbers ended up being BECAUSE they are so tainted by steroids and the change in the stroke zone that took place at that same time. They're too skewed to give them any credence. And he was a defensive liability. The debate finds you.
MVP: To clarify, the MVP award we know today - voted by the BBWAA since 1931 - never had a rule barring a player from winning it more than once.
Your reaction of this list is a lot like mine was when I was reading through it. Ozzie Smith was great and with his speed he added a lot of offensive value than OPS shows, he belongs in the top 100 (probably around 95). Cal Ripken Jr. was both defensively and offensively better than Jeter (by a significant amount), simply trade their positions on the list.
Jeter OPS=818
Ripken OPS=788
What were you saying? Large margin?
@@Grande79 I think you misread my statement. I didn't say Ripken had a higher OPS, nor did I say Ripken was better by a large margin; I said "Ripken was both defensively and offensively better than Jeter (by a significant amount)". I should have said his hitting rather than his offense (since offense includes SB and baserunning), Jeter's better on base skills plus his speed make up for Ripken's power. So I guess my corrected statement would be: Ripken was both a better hitter and fielder than Jeter (by a significant amount). Thank you.
@@hardyworld Outside of hitting for more power and not really a ton more (same slugging %), Jeter is the better all around hitter. Higher OBA and BA and OPS. More total bases and a better base runner. Sorry but Jeter was a better offensive player and hitter than Ripken. You can make the argument that Ripken is the better all around player due to his defense, I will give you that
@@Grande79 We'll have to agree to disagree because I believe Ripken to be the better hitter. I'm probably focusing more on peak performance and you are probably focusing more on career performance. I'm the same guy that thinks the peak performance of Dick Allen deserves to be in the HoF, but Darrell Evans (who has the same career WAR) doesn't warrant any serious consideration. I also may be weighing HR too heavily, but these guys are SS and 400 HR is a lot! Also Ripken has more career TB than Jeter, I think you misread that on the leaderboard, but wow both these guys are HIGH on the career TB list.
@@hardyworld I mean the numbers prove you wrong and I think you're too embarrassed to admit that but ok
I've been a Yankee fan my whole life. Derek Jeter is my favorite player all time. There's no way I'd have Jeter over these guys. To me Jeter is top 75. Definitely not top 50
Right I'm a cards fan. Jeter was so awesome but he's overrated stats wise but he just had that "it" factor
I'm a Mariners fan and I can say the same with Griffey except Griffey is better
@Edgy Anole you don't think Griffey is top 50!?
@@BrklynBread no I mean I think he's just barely top 30 he's good there's just many players better personally the highest I could see him is 20
Just to add to the irrelevant comments here:
Barry Bonds swung a 32-oz bat, a couple of ounces heavier than the aluminum bats we used in Legion baseball in the 80s.
Babe Ruth swung a 38-oz bat, more than 1/3-lb. heavier than Barry Bonds' bat.
This video was so entertaining and entertaining 😂😂😂