You should've asked me to try and sell people on Shadows, I love Shadows. My pitch for Shadows is to play Shadows if you love your gameplay being high risk, challenging, and requiring you to think ahead. The spirit is absolutely below the power curve and is more limited in what it can be doing. Because of this, if you're playing Base Shadows, I suggest sticking to a level (or two!) lower than you're typically comfortable at. Dark Fire I think is balanced relatively well to the other spirits, and I haven't played a lot of Foreboding but I hear that it's also close in power level. The other aspects emphasize another part of Shadows, which I'll get into later. The spirit is all about making sure your problems don't get out of hand. You can't handle built up lands very well except your Favors -> Concealing combo, and you can only do that once per reclaim and only at the right timing, so it's an incredibly important bomb. Furthermore, you're going to want to Gamble as Shadows a lot more often than you would with other spirits. The payoff for actually cleaning up a land completely is huge, since it means that you can actually use your innate to completely solve that land the next time it comes up. Shadow's mechanical identity is all about combining powers together. Crops Wither and Fade + Innate solves a built town, Mantle into your Favors + Concealing land to get a bit more ahead on board, and squeeze out every last bit of value you can from whatever you pick up. Your powers are very very picky and particular, which plays into another big part of it, multiplayer coordination. Red mentions that Shadows doesn't want to leave their board, and I couldn't disagree more. I think in multiplayer, Shadows especially wants to leave its board, because its powers are just so specific that they just won't always be useful at all on its own board. Shadows is at their best when heavily coordinating with their allies, using their weird and minimal tools exactly where and when they're needed to alleviate whatever is going on, and counting on their ally's raw strength to resolve their problems that just need a big hammer. It's not just combining their own powers together, Shadows really wants to coordinate their powers with their allies. With aspects that increase Shadow's range or mobility, coordination is emphasized. However, all aspects don't "resolve" that Shadows has weird and particular powers, such as Darkfire. With Darkfire, it's especially important to branch out and trade support; you have more excess power to throw out and other spirits greatly benefit from a well placed Badlands or some Dahan movement. You get some more raw punch, but that power still isn't going to be useful all the time. When playing shadows, play to the board, make sure that you minimize problems that you can't solve, and remember that you are almost certainly NOT going to outscale the invaders. The only way you can get ahead is by never letting the invaders build up something that you can't handle, or just asking a friend to help out. Shadows is a spirit who is challenging to win with. The Fear generation can provide inevitability to a team, and its weird and particular nature can encourage some more communication and cooperation in your multiplayer tables. In solo, Shadows is all about planning everything way in advance and doing a healthy bit of gambling. If this sounds like it'd make the game more interesting to you, then I think Shadows is the spirit for you, but I will not lie and say Shadows is a spirit for everyone, because it absolutely is not.
Do you think shadows would be more inline power wise if it started the game with 2 energy? It would allow for more use from it's special rule or an earlier/higher cost major, perhaps even a turn delay in top track.
Wait, I thought the whole point of amorphous was that you place presence in a ravaging land, use Concealing Shadows, and then push presence out so it doesn't get destroyed. It doesn't state that the presence movement needs to be done before power cards are resolved in the fast and slow phases
I am amazed to hear you have never played multiple of these aspects despite all your spirit island plays. I feel like we definitely need to see at least a Madness video and maybe a Darkfire video when the “embargo” lifts. Another thing about darkfire IMO that you didn’t quite talk about is that extra card can help delay reclaim, meaning you get to grow a little more reaching 3/3 a turn or two sooner
the little sad face drawing made me giggle so hard XD i personally havent had much experience with the base game spirits, i find i have more fun games with medium/hard complexity spirits
I really like Shadows Flicker Like Flame. Interesting to me that many folks complain about Shadows of the Dahan; I find it very useful for enabling presence sacrifice plays, and most of the time the +1-2~ range seems like it is either reasonably priced or discounted depending on said range. The only feels-bad thing about it to me is that it is so hard to find power cards that you actually want in the moment that will align with your innates. Most of the Shadow + Fire options seem to rarely be things that will impact the board the way you need a power card to when you draw it.
I think when people complain about the SR, they are complaining about the energy economy. Shadows suffers from: 1) Weak Tracks 2) Weak SR 3) Moon + Fire + Air elemental combination being one of the weakest in the game.
It was a great thing that Shadows became a weak spirit when facing stronger adversaries, cuz now the developer wanted to take care of the spirit and make a bunch of aspects for it. I love shadows, so I now have many cool ways to use the spirit…and I play easy adversaries or no adversary with family anyways so shadow isn’t lacking there imo
Madness is by far my favorite Shadows aspect, and I think it lets you get around the range issue the spirit has by just letting you drop your presence right in the middle of the invaders. You get free strife to protect yourself and the Dahan you gather, and you get to set up all your range 0 powers and mantle of dread, so it gives you a ton of value. The fear on presence getting destroyed is fine, not a huge reward and I honestly forget it exists sometimes, but the strife part is a really solid ability.
Shadows has been my favorite spirit since day 1 of SI. I love the high control/high fear playstyle. Unfortunately, it's very weak for higher difficulties. That's why I was very excited about the new aspect. When it was revealed, my first thought was "can I finally trigger the last level of the innate with 3 card plays?". I don't think it's possible without at least one additional fire/moon/air card, of which only four exist in the game: two minors and two majors; however, neither of the two majors will be picked too often. That's a little sad, but it is what it is. :( But, maybe the 5 initial cards will allow a strategy where you postpone reclaiming a turn to place that final presence that gives you 4 plays.
What would also have been cool is if the "...available to you..." text was not there. Then you could interchange moon/fire element requirements too to make the thresholds more flexible.
You love defense, so I’m a little surprised you haven’t played Madness aspect😁 I love Madness cuz it’s simple and cool adding strife most turns. Ooh a city or town with dahan? Let’s strife it…easy dub
@@RedReVenge007 cuz it’s functions are a bit weak vs higher adversaries? I’d imagine it’s not as fun then. No reason you need to like the spirit even at low levels too😄 Im sure I like it more partly cuz I play easy mode with my bro sometimes. I could cheat and just give myself bonus 2 energy to start game if playing higher adversaries
I just started playing Spirit Island recently. This is my favorite Spirit in the game, and i couldn't understand why i kept losing on solo. I thought i just didn't get it. Then I learned shadows isnt exactly great, so it was a little of both 😅
Same for me. I get the feeling that Shadows really punishes spreading yourself too thin, and as a new player I definitely want to be trying to put every fire out at once rather than conceding land and blight to allow myself to grow.
I found quite a few of the base game spirits to be quite bad on solo. I remember really struggling to understand Lightening for ages until I played a two player with it.
Shadows is kind of a sad spirit, but I like that it's a little different each time because there are so many aspects. Amorphous: You can avoid presence destruction if you already have presence there, by using it after concealing shadows in the fast phase. Madness: I find this relatively complex because you're so range restricted, and you're forced to choose between good positioning and using strife productively.
I never liked shadowes, because it was clunky and getting your Innate past the first tier was even clunkier and often counterprodutive or to late in the game. With Dark Fire it is still a little clunky, but you get your Innate every turn, you can even get the second tier on turn 1! Now Dark Fire Shadowes has become one of my favorite spirits 😊.
Base Shadows is anything but a LOW COMPELXITY Spirit. Short of Finder and Mist Shadows is probably the most difficult spirit to play well. Until I had a bit of knowledge of the game and had bunch of games with other spirits and even then stumbled on the perfect game with shadows on a SI Digital challenge did I realize the power. Even then the setup, advisory AND explore had to be "Perfect" setup When you can get the quadfecta of Concealing , Crops, Favors and Mantle PLUS a favorable draw like Entrancing Apparitions or Land of Haunts and Embers. Though I will say Land of Haunts and Embers might be the ultimate teaching card for Sunk Cost Fallacy or MiniMax training available. If only Shadows 'Madness Aspect' could have Tricksters "Incite the Mob" then things would get interesting. SORRY , now I;ll start the video maybe all this was covered
Now that I started the Vid and @7:00 I agree that 'Reach' is a straight upgrade to base. that free single range increase is worlds better than base in almost any instance of base Shadows Unless it is super late game when you have energy to spare and are so far ahead in the game and willy-nilly flinging majors that it doesn't matter.
@7:48 the Amorphous strategy of targeting with your presence seems to me faulty until you consider other presence powers. (Mist's Flowing & Silent Forms Dart By), Stone's Unyielding Defiance Innate 'Bestow the Endurance of BedRock' , Finder's almost infinite fast presence movement and Vengeance letting you do fast damage with 'Fiery Vengeance' plus the extra blight damage can help solve those doubled-up land-type cards. Flame is like weak Solo but stronger with team(s). Almost opposite Ocean (nah Solo Ocean is TOO strong) and almost as good multi as Finder (nah Multi Finder is TOO strong) On Second thought Flames role is better played by too many other spirits in almost every instance even with aspects considered.
Whole-Lee-Sheet I hadn't see DarkFire till now. Shadows PLUS Bonus Flame or Moon every turn on top of being able to shift between flame or moon plays for triggering inates and a baby 'Flowing and Silent Forms Dart By" coupled with Concealing Shadows ? then add on top a mostly on element card that does damage and for all intent and purposes dds a badlands every time you play it ? hell yeah! as an underdog I was OK with Flames as a spirit to play to teach noobs about taking blight to scale and using fear as a finisher but, this aspect might , just might, shift my entire perspective on Shadows and her/his shit tracks and uniques for higher adversary play
Good video as alwatys Red, I like this series :) I would like to ask if you can elaborate a bit when you say that "If you're playing any spirit you wanna reach that 3/3 (Energy and card plays)" - Is there a specific reason this ratio is good, or is it just a generally good and balanced ratio between energy and card plays?
I talk a bit about it here: ua-cam.com/video/iEoSLgkvR30/v-deo.html&ab_channel=RedReVenge Basically 3/3 radio generates enough energy to sustain the good majors (usually costing 4 or less). 3 plays is needed to threshold that major. Most thresholds require 2/3 element combinations, so 3 plays let's you play those elements needed.
To figure that out, you have to ask yourself: "Do I like suffering?" Seriously though. While I play this spirit very slowly and generally stay away from it in multiplayer because of that (or we'll definitely run out of juice before the game ends, lol), especially Foreboding, I got "caught" by it at some point. Who knew that running just into a right soundtrack while you play the game while listening to random music can do this to you...
I love Shadows! If you’re trying to take down 6’s, it’s pretty weak for that, but I love the massive fear generation and puzzles that playing the spirit presents. Darkfire was a lot of fun the first time I played it and definitely gives the spirit appropriate buffs in order to not feel so weak. Looking forward to playing it again!
You should've asked me to try and sell people on Shadows, I love Shadows.
My pitch for Shadows is to play Shadows if you love your gameplay being high risk, challenging, and requiring you to think ahead.
The spirit is absolutely below the power curve and is more limited in what it can be doing. Because of this, if you're playing Base Shadows, I suggest sticking to a level (or two!) lower than you're typically comfortable at. Dark Fire I think is balanced relatively well to the other spirits, and I haven't played a lot of Foreboding but I hear that it's also close in power level. The other aspects emphasize another part of Shadows, which I'll get into later.
The spirit is all about making sure your problems don't get out of hand. You can't handle built up lands very well except your Favors -> Concealing combo, and you can only do that once per reclaim and only at the right timing, so it's an incredibly important bomb. Furthermore, you're going to want to Gamble as Shadows a lot more often than you would with other spirits. The payoff for actually cleaning up a land completely is huge, since it means that you can actually use your innate to completely solve that land the next time it comes up.
Shadow's mechanical identity is all about combining powers together. Crops Wither and Fade + Innate solves a built town, Mantle into your Favors + Concealing land to get a bit more ahead on board, and squeeze out every last bit of value you can from whatever you pick up. Your powers are very very picky and particular, which plays into another big part of it, multiplayer coordination.
Red mentions that Shadows doesn't want to leave their board, and I couldn't disagree more. I think in multiplayer, Shadows especially wants to leave its board, because its powers are just so specific that they just won't always be useful at all on its own board. Shadows is at their best when heavily coordinating with their allies, using their weird and minimal tools exactly where and when they're needed to alleviate whatever is going on, and counting on their ally's raw strength to resolve their problems that just need a big hammer. It's not just combining their own powers together, Shadows really wants to coordinate their powers with their allies.
With aspects that increase Shadow's range or mobility, coordination is emphasized. However, all aspects don't "resolve" that Shadows has weird and particular powers, such as Darkfire. With Darkfire, it's especially important to branch out and trade support; you have more excess power to throw out and other spirits greatly benefit from a well placed Badlands or some Dahan movement. You get some more raw punch, but that power still isn't going to be useful all the time.
When playing shadows, play to the board, make sure that you minimize problems that you can't solve, and remember that you are almost certainly NOT going to outscale the invaders. The only way you can get ahead is by never letting the invaders build up something that you can't handle, or just asking a friend to help out.
Shadows is a spirit who is challenging to win with. The Fear generation can provide inevitability to a team, and its weird and particular nature can encourage some more communication and cooperation in your multiplayer tables. In solo, Shadows is all about planning everything way in advance and doing a healthy bit of gambling. If this sounds like it'd make the game more interesting to you, then I think Shadows is the spirit for you, but I will not lie and say Shadows is a spirit for everyone, because it absolutely is not.
Do you think shadows would be more inline power wise if it started the game with 2 energy? It would allow for more use from it's special rule or an earlier/higher cost major, perhaps even a turn delay in top track.
Wait, I thought the whole point of amorphous was that you place presence in a ravaging land, use Concealing Shadows, and then push presence out so it doesn't get destroyed. It doesn't state that the presence movement needs to be done before power cards are resolved in the fast and slow phases
Yep, i missed that!
I am amazed to hear you have never played multiple of these aspects despite all your spirit island plays. I feel like we definitely need to see at least a Madness video and maybe a Darkfire video when the “embargo” lifts. Another thing about darkfire IMO that you didn’t quite talk about is that extra card can help delay reclaim, meaning you get to grow a little more reaching 3/3 a turn or two sooner
the little sad face drawing made me giggle so hard XD i personally havent had much experience with the base game spirits, i find i have more fun games with medium/hard complexity spirits
I just got Nature Incarnate delivered to me 1/2 a week ago. Now I have 37 spirits muhahah
Oh, I should try the Madness aspect, it looks interesting and different without being too complex.
I really like Shadows Flicker Like Flame. Interesting to me that many folks complain about Shadows of the Dahan; I find it very useful for enabling presence sacrifice plays, and most of the time the +1-2~ range seems like it is either reasonably priced or discounted depending on said range.
The only feels-bad thing about it to me is that it is so hard to find power cards that you actually want in the moment that will align with your innates. Most of the Shadow + Fire options seem to rarely be things that will impact the board the way you need a power card to when you draw it.
I think when people complain about the SR, they are complaining about the energy economy.
Shadows suffers from:
1) Weak Tracks
2) Weak SR
3) Moon + Fire + Air elemental combination being one of the weakest in the game.
Shadows is the only Spirit were every aspect is a strict upgrade.
It was a great thing that Shadows became a weak spirit when facing stronger adversaries, cuz now the developer wanted to take care of the spirit and make a bunch of aspects for it. I love shadows, so I now have many cool ways to use the spirit…and I play easy adversaries or no adversary with family anyways so shadow isn’t lacking there imo
Madness is by far my favorite Shadows aspect, and I think it lets you get around the range issue the spirit has by just letting you drop your presence right in the middle of the invaders. You get free strife to protect yourself and the Dahan you gather, and you get to set up all your range 0 powers and mantle of dread, so it gives you a ton of value. The fear on presence getting destroyed is fine, not a huge reward and I honestly forget it exists sometimes, but the strife part is a really solid ability.
Shadows has been my favorite spirit since day 1 of SI. I love the high control/high fear playstyle. Unfortunately, it's very weak for higher difficulties. That's why I was very excited about the new aspect. When it was revealed, my first thought was "can I finally trigger the last level of the innate with 3 card plays?". I don't think it's possible without at least one additional fire/moon/air card, of which only four exist in the game: two minors and two majors; however, neither of the two majors will be picked too often. That's a little sad, but it is what it is. :( But, maybe the 5 initial cards will allow a strategy where you postpone reclaiming a turn to place that final presence that gives you 4 plays.
The card plays track is sad though. The 3->3 dead spot is just too painful. They could have put something there at least, an element or a reclaim...
What would also have been cool is if the "...available to you..." text was not there. Then you could interchange moon/fire element requirements too to make the thresholds more flexible.
You love defense, so I’m a little surprised you haven’t played Madness aspect😁 I love Madness cuz it’s simple and cool adding strife most turns. Ooh a city or town with dahan? Let’s strife it…easy dub
I just don't like Shadows lol
@@RedReVenge007 cuz it’s functions are a bit weak vs higher adversaries? I’d imagine it’s not as fun then. No reason you need to like the spirit even at low levels too😄 Im sure I like it more partly cuz I play easy mode with my bro sometimes. I could cheat and just give myself bonus 2 energy to start game if playing higher adversaries
I just started playing Spirit Island recently. This is my favorite Spirit in the game, and i couldn't understand why i kept losing on solo. I thought i just didn't get it. Then I learned shadows isnt exactly great, so it was a little of both 😅
Same for me. I get the feeling that Shadows really punishes spreading yourself too thin, and as a new player I definitely want to be trying to put every fire out at once rather than conceding land and blight to allow myself to grow.
I found quite a few of the base game spirits to be quite bad on solo. I remember really struggling to understand Lightening for ages until I played a two player with it.
Shadows is kind of a sad spirit, but I like that it's a little different each time because there are so many aspects.
Amorphous: You can avoid presence destruction if you already have presence there, by using it after concealing shadows in the fast phase.
Madness: I find this relatively complex because you're so range restricted, and you're forced to choose between good positioning and using strife productively.
With amorphous, if you have range, you can even place a presence there on that turn, play the power, and move that presence.
Maybe I should give this spirit another go with the aspects, some of them look cool, I think the NI one looks the most fun, but reach is a nice buff
I never liked shadowes, because it was clunky and getting your Innate past the first tier was even clunkier and often counterprodutive or to late in the game. With Dark Fire it is still a little clunky, but you get your Innate every turn, you can even get the second tier on turn 1! Now Dark Fire Shadowes has become one of my favorite spirits 😊.
With amorphous, can't you target concealing shadows on a land during the fast phase, and then after that move your presence away from that land?
Yes you can! Good find!
Base Shadows is anything but a LOW COMPELXITY Spirit.
Short of Finder and Mist Shadows is probably the most difficult spirit to play well.
Until I had a bit of knowledge of the game and had bunch of games with other spirits and even then stumbled on the perfect game with shadows on a SI Digital challenge did I realize the power.
Even then the setup, advisory AND explore had to be "Perfect" setup
When you can get the quadfecta of Concealing , Crops, Favors and Mantle PLUS a favorable draw like Entrancing Apparitions or Land of Haunts and Embers.
Though I will say Land of Haunts and Embers might be the ultimate teaching card for Sunk Cost Fallacy or MiniMax training available.
If only Shadows 'Madness Aspect' could have Tricksters "Incite the Mob" then things would get interesting.
SORRY , now I;ll start the video maybe all this was covered
Now that I started the Vid and @7:00 I agree that 'Reach' is a straight upgrade to base. that free single range increase is worlds better than base in almost any instance of base Shadows Unless it is super late game when you have energy to spare and are so far ahead in the game and willy-nilly flinging majors that it doesn't matter.
@7:48 the Amorphous strategy of targeting with your presence seems to me faulty until you consider other presence powers. (Mist's Flowing & Silent Forms Dart By), Stone's Unyielding Defiance Innate 'Bestow the Endurance of BedRock' , Finder's almost infinite fast presence movement and Vengeance letting you do fast damage with 'Fiery Vengeance' plus the extra blight damage can help solve those doubled-up land-type cards.
Flame is like weak Solo but stronger with team(s). Almost opposite Ocean (nah Solo Ocean is TOO strong) and almost as good multi as Finder (nah Multi Finder is TOO strong)
On Second thought Flames role is better played by too many other spirits in almost every instance even with aspects considered.
Whole-Lee-Sheet I hadn't see DarkFire till now.
Shadows PLUS Bonus Flame or Moon every turn on top of being able to shift between flame or moon plays for triggering inates and a baby 'Flowing and Silent Forms Dart By" coupled with Concealing Shadows ? then add on top a mostly on element card that does damage and for all intent and purposes dds a badlands every time you play it ? hell yeah!
as an underdog I was OK with Flames as a spirit to play to teach noobs about taking blight to scale and using fear as a finisher but, this aspect might , just might, shift my entire perspective on Shadows and her/his shit tracks and uniques for higher adversary play
Good video as alwatys Red, I like this series :)
I would like to ask if you can elaborate a bit when you say that "If you're playing any spirit you wanna reach that 3/3 (Energy and card plays)" - Is there a specific reason this ratio is good, or is it just a generally good and balanced ratio between energy and card plays?
I talk a bit about it here:
ua-cam.com/video/iEoSLgkvR30/v-deo.html&ab_channel=RedReVenge
Basically 3/3 radio generates enough energy to sustain the good majors (usually costing 4 or less). 3 plays is needed to threshold that major. Most thresholds require 2/3 element combinations, so 3 plays let's you play those elements needed.
@@RedReVenge007 Thanks, I really appreciate your answer!
He is the only spirit (outside of NI - still waiting on my physical copy of the game) that I never tried; not even once.
Not sure if i'll ever do..
You're not missing much ;)
If you really like getting blight and losing then shadow is the best Spirit in the game.
Shadow is funny if you are allowed to use 2 aspect cards, more combinations are available to deal with high difficulty game🤣
To figure that out, you have to ask yourself: "Do I like suffering?"
Seriously though. While I play this spirit very slowly and generally stay away from it in multiplayer because of that (or we'll definitely run out of juice before the game ends, lol), especially Foreboding, I got "caught" by it at some point. Who knew that running just into a right soundtrack while you play the game while listening to random music can do this to you...
I love Shadows! If you’re trying to take down 6’s, it’s pretty weak for that, but I love the massive fear generation and puzzles that playing the spirit presents.
Darkfire was a lot of fun the first time I played it and definitely gives the spirit appropriate buffs in order to not feel so weak. Looking forward to playing it again!