Hey guys, about the blur at 6:35 - I originally showed the texture with Jack's name visible, but after talking to him we decided that it's probably best to blur it for the video. Thanks for watching
The muriel could've made by a prophet/fortune teller before the timeline split & references the 3 timelines, as the Rito are only in 1 & the Zora looked hostile(River Zora)
Here's my take on Jack's story: Party system, mc is link (courage), woman is wisdom (zelda) and man is power (ganon). A wise Goron tells the party of the triforce, and they go on a quest. Some problems they face require wisdom (woman gives a gift/encourages trade between races) while others require strength and power (looks like the zora with the spear is fighting Ooccoo, and the man is present). All, however, require courage (link is present throughout).
There would have to be a new villain though, and the whole story of Zelda is that demise cursed the hero and Zelda to be in a permanent fight with ganon even when they lose, so something insanely dramatic would have to happen if ganon were to team up with them, like the curse being broken and these being the last three iterations of Zelda,Link, and Ganon. (I’m saying this might be cool as the last Zelda game ever the curse is broken the evil is gone and everyone lives happily ever after blah blah blah)
@@wilthewise2277 What if the murals were dated before the events of skyward sword, and throughout the adventures of these three, the man had been consumed by the power, becoming known as demise? Idk I'm just making stuff up on the spot, and I don't know too much about twilight princess
Literally, I had an English class where the person next to me and I just straight-up whispered for 20 minutes how our teacher made us over-analyze the f*ck out of these books. Like for one book, we were expected to write 2 page essay every chapter nit-picking every fooking detail and symbolism like the author left forbidden knowledge hidden away within their words of the story.
EXATCLY! Oh gotta paint a curtain... What color will make it fancier? Blue! That's it. Then your Teacher: "Oh, blue is a color that has sad feellings, so it means the painter was sad."
me: "did the woman turn into an ooccoo,,, is that link like link-link from a timeline where he just gets all 3 pieces?" "oh wait they literally reused and hflipped layers of this drawing its probably just a random artist's day of work
*after 8 minutes of hypothetical bs* “aha nahh I’m just fucking with you, the person who designed the texture actually gave us a true answer, but my answer was longer”
Reminds me of the story of some Viking runes etched somewhere. Historians were thinking they're some profound statement... all it amounted to was "Bjorn was here"
Think the story you are thinking of is the runes in Hagia Sophia. One of the inscriptions is so faded that only half of it is readable now, but most likely it read “Half-Dan made these runes” Old Norse graffiti.
There are a lot of rune stones in Sweden and you could think they're chronicles of amazing events or explanations of places. A lot of them are just along the lines of "Nils Rogersson is a cool and rich dude who lives here. He paid a lot of money to have this stone made. He does a lot of farming and went to England once"
The whole situation be like: Jack Kirby: "Hmmm, I am not an Zelda lore expert and I dont know what to draw here. I guess I'll throw some random characters from the series, I dont think it will be a problem." The entire Zelda fandom: *Freaks out because there is a Rito carved in it, and makes tons of theories* Jack Kirby: "Shit..... Sorry for that"
Yeah, huge let down like the whole lore leading up to Breath of the Wild and the empty promises of Aonuma. This here is also a busted nut. It's a ruined orgasm. Period.
I literally thought the same thing lol. The fact that this video came out a couple weeks ago, right before that Mario 64 stuff happened, is a really weird coincidence
Yeah, it’s in the game now, so it really has to be a part of the lore, structured around it or no. Personally, I think it implies that somewhere else, Zora naturally evolved into Rito, and they visited Hyrule before TP. But this is my Matpat brain talking. And it’s just a theory. A game theory. Thanks for listening.
@@goroakechi6126 This isn't a theory. A theory is meant to be as close as reality as possible, so you must consider all clues in the game. Your comment is merely a hypothesis. Cordially, a theory lover.
The carvings are depicting the events of Paper Link: The Ten Thousand Year Door. The scenes show Link and the single companion he's permitted to acknowledge at a time.
Zeltik: So what are these mysterious carvings and who was the extraordinary person that made them? Jack Kirby Crosby: Huh? Oh idk, I just made them up . . . *facepalms* Me: . . . well at least he was honest about it
@@Carikenja They were probably inspired by the reliefs of the Pantheon in Athens. The monument is famous, and the silhouettes are pretty similar. They probably don't have any significance: they were probably just intended to make the space feel like a grand castle. You have to realize that a lot of design choices for areas are based entirely on just creating an atmosphere that embodies the mood and tone that the scene taking place in it. Not everything involved in it's creation has lore significance.
I think that story he wanted to convey was one of the bearers of the triforce who rather than fall into their standard roles every reincarnation, they chose instead sought peace. Even the depiction of the Ganon like figure alongside Link reminds me of the Growing up Gerudo fan series.
the man did suspiciously look like ganondorf to me too "the nose very reminiscent of his WW and TP design). I thought at first that because link was small and it was the child timeline it was just him and the king and queen visiting the different people. But then he said he doesnt matter so yeah lol
I would love to see a game in which the incarnations of Zelda, Link, and Ganon(dorf) decide to work together, only for some bigger outside force to rear it's head. Or maybe even a sort of role reversal, in which the spirit of Demise takes a different approach and reincarnates in Zelda or Link, making Ganondorf the hero.
@@AdmiralAwsm that would never happen, it goes against literally everything. i don't think you know much of zelda lore if you suggest something like that. ganondorf is the same person in every game, he's not a different incarnation each time, he is literally the SAME person, cursed to be the embodiment of demise's hatred, essentially making him immortal in a way, only ever able to be sealed or temporarily killed off. zelda's bloodline literally carries the blood of the goddess hylia, and all links have the spirit of the hero, demise would never be able to incarnate within them. MAYBE ganondorf could overcome demise's hatred and force it to take on another form or something, cause it has been hinted at that ganondorf, despite being cursed with demise's hatred, he IS his own person underneath it all. wind waker made it clear that ganondorf just got tired of the struggles his people had to endure while hylians lived it up in paradise, which pushed him to do what he did... but demise's hatred turned him into a bigger threat than even he could've imagined.
I have always viewed the carvings as a hint of what Link does after Majora's Mask. The woman is an ambassador, and the man is a member of the Hyrule knights, possibly the one taking Link on as an apprentice, a squire. I believe the Rito shown evolved from the Wind tribe in Minish Cap, and who eventually evolved into the Rito of BotW.
It could also be something that happens or is going to happen in the official TP mangas. Since those take a bit of creative liberty but stay true to the material for the most part.
That actually could make sense. If Link would indeed be taken on as an apprentice and eventually became a knight, that could tie in to BOTW, where I believe it’s said that that game’s Link had a father as a knight.
Made the comment before finishing the video; this is more so closure than it is a theory, but the idea that the carving could eventually be significant in the future is great. I'd love to see some game happen between Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess that make the carving make some form of sense someday
I prefer the original texture in the Gamecube, this new one creates lore issues and creates more questions than answers. Personally speaking, i see it as an easter egg just like the Ballad of Gales in the game, not a real thing for the worldbuilding.
@@saricubra2867 I definitely get that; feels unnecessary when they have something using characters you recognize but has no role other than something to spark speculation, especially when it's eventually confirmed to have no purpose
The whole "Rito evolved from the Zora" makes me wonder if the Zora can be seperated between a freshwater and saltwater subspecies, and the whole flooding of Hyrule led to the freshwater Zora fleeing from the rising sea, to become landbound and eventually evolve further to become the Rito.
There are two species of Zora. Fresh water/salt water Zora (blue/white) in OOT/MM and river Zora (green) ALTTP/ALBW. BOTW has both and new red zoras as well.
Actually, if we consider the existence of Majoras mask, there ARE Salt and Freshwater Zora variants. In Hyrule they very explicitly live in the Ancient Cistern after all, which is 100% fresh water. In Termina they live in the ocean. The rising sea forcing the Zora out really does make a ton of sense.
@@seanrea550 I have a theory that the Occa we see in game are basically the Rito, but the form they take in Twilight Princess is a result of the dragon cursing them using the Mirror Shard it has.
Sorry No Username Yeahh...I just wish the main events weren’t so disjointed when you actually examine them. -Ilia&Kids being kidnapped was the Inciting incident but...why...was Link left behind. Why were the youth taken at all. Why were they all separated and randomly ultimately abandoned? There’s no explanation for it at all. It gets Link’s adventure started but then unravels -where TF did Zelda’s body come from?! She’s shown to be Solid and Not A Spirit and merges with Midna. Yet Ganondorf randomly has her body pinned to a wall. (Which, okay, it allowed Zelda to be restored and finally DO something vs a pointless surrender that actually made things WORSE since Zant did not hold up his end of the bargain and did things like murder the Zora Queen and allowed the Twilit!Bublins sack Kakariko, Old Kakariko, and Ordon. And CastleTown suffered the effects of a major drought caused by the Spirit losing its Light and the Zora being frozen...somehow?) Then other things-like the Hylians being racist fascists bent on “solving” their problems with Genocide (absense of Gerudo but their name remains and the ruins of their home and Temple were used to make the Arbiter Grounds centuries before TP, the Sheikah locked in a ghetto and made extinct while waiting for “the messenger of the heavens”, Renaldo and his daughter having both Gerudo and Sheikah traits and wearing the Eye with their culture matching Impaz’s Statue, Twilit History having them driven across the desert to eventually be executed or banished (with Ganondorf sharing this fate) but also waiting for their own Savior just like the Sheikah)-aren’t even really a subtext thing. But then we have simpler stories that have subtler complexity that DO stay tight when examined (LBW comes immediately to mind.) There’s a lot to theorize with TP, but I wish most of it wasn’t caused by Dropped Threads. Random Ruins and who built them? Twilit’s Ancestors? Great! Good! Villages Attacked but never a WHY? NOT good. At all.
@@anonymousfellow8879 Huh... those are all actually really good points that I never realized playing the game. There so much cool stuff in the game that I loved & never realized most of it doesn't make sense. Interesting
Arkterrus Yeah, same honestly. The game’s still enjoyable and the Emotional Beats that they want to hit still hit for the most part. (Much, much better than, say, OoT. Honestly, the only bit I enjoyed were the labyrinths from a gameplay perspective, and I’ve been in the fandom since 2D Zelda. Which, those levels are definitely decent, but I still found better Atmosphere or Complexity in various 2D Zelda. The Fire Temple especially kinda had an identity crisis, and I think I’ll always be sore about how poorly thought out the Zora Tunic was as a mechanic...for a WATER Level. It’s sad when the Zora Flippers as a reoccuring item beat out...the tunic. When there’s an above-water swimming animation and other games of a similar era-like Spyro-actually thought that part of the gameplay out AND used it multiple times. Which, despite Water Levels being a staple since LttP, only 2D/Handheld Zelda have done anything with it. Even with TP having an amazing swimming mechanic!) ...digressing. Fans want Varied and Themed labyrinths in botw2. I just want a good swimming and underwater combat system that’s actually thought out and isn’t just a one trick pony. (There’s more to a Level than its atmosphere...which I always find lacking. Nothing’s tackier than calling an area “sacred” when there’s NOTHING in there other than Basic Level-no tapestries, no alters, no dormatories, no catacombs as Emergency Exits...nothing. And “dungeon” is also a misnomer-there’s nothing resembling a brig the majority of the time, and if there’s torture or execution devices it’s Level Only vs Envrionmental made INTO the Level. For actual Atmosphere that felt like what it said on the tin? ...I’m gonna go with the Forest Haven despite the flack it gets as overly simplistic in level design. Or Forsaken Fortress, even. Definitely BotW’s Ruined Castle, and its Beasts at least had a plot relevant function even if players found them monotonous. (Have they played Zelda1 or LttP? Digressing again... But. BotW really does have one of the strongest stories and actually handled the Amnesia trope WELL. Everything ties back together.))
@@anonymousfellow8879 That's pretty simple. Zelda has the Triforce of Wisdom, Triforce holders when in Twilight dont operate the same as normal people. Link goes Wolf, Zelda IS probably a spirit with her body in the castle w/ Ganon but her spirit is solid thanks to Triforce. As for the genocide, well, the royalty isn't usually known for being reasonable after being assaulted multiple times. After Zelda and Link either leave or are on a quest, I'd wager the councilors opt to wipe out the Gerudo and Shieka, Ganon makers and "evil" magic users respectively, then by the time Link and Zelda return the damage is done. From a purely us vs them mentality it makes sense. Unfortunately.
@@anonymousfellow8879 Well, Ganon is a top-tier wizard so maybe he did some magic shit to get her body. As for the Gerudo. Well, unlike in BOTW, they used to be at the very least thieves, and at most evil witches (Twinrova). With some exceptions of course. The fact that Ganon is their king doesn't help.
My interpretation: The three pictures could depict the three time lines. As for the triforce in the first carving, it's rays shine in all three carvings, showing how, while shining strongest in the first implies timeline, it's power still passes through ALL THREE time-set-dimensions. As for the adults, they could be representations of Link's parents in different timelines in which one or both survive the tragedies that may have befallen them in former interpretations.
"Rito" is from the Japanese word "tori" which means bird. Rito is just a catch-all term for bird folk in Zelda. This would include races like the Fokka from Zelda 2.
3:58 something to note: all 3 panels have the same "background," with the Triforce's "rays" emanating outward continuing through the following two panels.
I personally think that the events might actually be at different points in time, even in different timelines, which would explain the different species appearing. The whole effect is that whether in physical or ghostly form, the Hero of Time was present for the entire timeline. The first panel makes me think of Skyward Sword, the second seems like possibly Windwaker era, and the final is definitely Breath of the Wild. And the Hero of Time was there for it all.
There's a semi-credible rumor indicating that there will be a direct on the 20th. If that indeed is the case then I really hope we get to see more of the sequel. It's been over a year since it's initial trailer.
First panel. "Hey can we trade this kid for this triangle thingy?" Second panel. "Hey can I trade this kid for this cool pot thing?" Third panel. "Hey can I trade this kid for that weird looking bird pet thing and it's floating head?"
Hold on, you're telling me game developers just do things for the hell of it and don't analyse 30 years of game history to implant lore into their games? My interpretation always has been that Child link went on to have a few more adventures in his time in Hyrule, most often just being a delegate or Ambassador of the Royal family. If we then accept that Link made contact with the Gorons, Rito and Oocca, a few more connections line up. The Snowpeak mansion has pictures of the Oocca, despite them apparently being legend. Well they would be more than legend to someone who interacted with them and was a delegate to them. Bringing up the thought that the Snowpeak mansion once belonged to Link. His acquaintance with the Gorons also explains why he trusted them to keep his bow to pass on to the heir to his bloodline And the rito likely just evolved in a different way in this timeline. In real world evolution, one species evolving does not necessarily mean the destruction of the prior species. Evolution can be caused by a species being separated for example. What's with the Triforce though? Well Twilight Princess also tells us that people were corrupted in their seeking out of the triforce, so lying about it's true location would mislead people in their search for it
Here’s my take: The goron is young Links “brother.” In ocarina of time after the deku tree dies, and even leaving Saria and her becoming a sage, Link has no other family or bond other than his brother gorons. The man and woman aren’t necessarily people or characters, but ideas or choices of our hero. The goron is showing him that whatever path he chooses, it will still lead to his destiny as the hero. The woman could represent the adult timeline with the Rito. She carries an urn representing the death of old hyrule and the birth of a new one. (Alternatively, women with children in art can sometimes be seen symbolically as fertility or birth or rebirth. So a new hyrule being born after Wind Walker). The picture with the man can represent the child timeline. Our hero who is a boy will soon grow into a man. There is no rebirth, but instead maturation, change and coming of age. So that’s why the Zora and Oocca are there, there is no new hyrule but it has grown. So my theory is that this is just showing us the two paths our *successful* hero (emphasis on successful) will take after the events of ocarina of time :)
I think this is the best theory about the reliefs that I've read so far, it makes a lot of sense, especially if maybe one of the Zelda's (either OOT Zelda or one before TP started) had a vision because of their powers or the Triforce of Wisdom that Link going back created different timelines. It does make me wonder if they didn't see the downfall timeline or just refused to acknowledge it. It they just ignored it, though, I have to wonder why. But long story short lol, I like your theory.
My theory is that the Rito were actually a separate race which the wind waker sage married into. The Rito and coca are distant cousins, like zora and Zola in the Oracle games.
Well they did say in Wind Waker that the Rito evolved from the Zora but Zora exist in other places besides Hyrule so just because the Hyrule versions turned into birds doesn't mean EVERY Zora in the world did.
@@MysteriousTomJenkins you'll have to refresh my memory of where they say that. I know that the zora sage says that Medli is her descendant, and that the Rito get their wings from a scale of valoo, but I don't recall any of them saying that they used to live in water or used to be called Zora.
I always thought that certain Zora simply migrated to other areas to avoid conflict/ stay safe and the Zora that didn't decide to migrate became the Rito. The Zora that did migrate eventually came back at some point during a time of peace.
The one problem I have with the "Zora evolved into the Rito" theory is just, why? Why would the people who live in water evolve into birds? Especially in Wind Waker of all games, where the world is mostly water. There's probably an explanation for it, but I don't get it.
The hylian shield is a good example of things that were explained or expanded upon in the later games. Like how there's a red bird in link's shield but later we found out about loftwings and skyloft
Honestly I've always just assumed they were meant to represent the re conversion of all the timelines into BOTW in a metaphorical sense rather than a forgotten tale of the Hero of Time. With the Rito and the Zoras being in the same location, Hero of time representing the child timeline etc. Either way in most cases the mystery themselves is more captivating than the answer we eventually get. So I look at this the same way, not disappointed the answer leaves a lot to be desired, just intrigued at the possibilities such a mural could have represented.
One of my favorite "not cannon but becomes cannon later" is the TetraForce. Originally, in LoZ OoT, we had what seemed to be an extra piece of the triforce on the bottom of the hylian shield that would fit into the triforce. This caused many people to believe that there was a missing piece or even a missing Goddess. Years later, and Nintendo saying that the TetraForce isn't real, it did turn out that there was a missing Goddess. The goddess Hylia was never mention until Skyward Sword and is now a major important piece in Zelda Lore.
One thing that people seem to miss is that the stone carvings don't necessarily have to depict a story that actually happened in-universe - they could be legends or fables. If the existence of Rito doesn't make sense in this timeline, the carvings could just be portraying a fable involving birdmen that never actually existed, for example
Lot's of people who are fans of any game ever needs to see this video. Props to Kirby for his quick reply. Games are littered with these little gems: I remember trying to decode the letters on a sign in OOT when I was a wee lad, only to much later (after giving up) notice all the sings were the same. One of the funniest dissapointments of my early life.
What's to know? Be evil demon man. Fight Goddess lady for pretty triangles. Get turned into scaly teeth monster. Get murdered by young boy and get stuck with a robot sword roommate as your conscious slowly erodes. Standard stuff.
Ziggy Mandarr That’s kind of the timing, though, he’s super uninteresting because there is like, no info on him. He’s just evil. Like, who are his parents, where did he go to university, where does he work out because he’s super swole, stuff like that.
I do love the freedom and creative stories that can be made from working on Zelda theories. However, it'd be amazing if most of them, if not all of them, actually had official answers that are hidden from us.
This touches on my favorite thing when it comes to Zelda lore. The vast majority of it was never intended, but leaves the door open for discussion. The fandom has effectively written a more compelling narrative for the overarching series than was ever thought up by Nintendo.
I love it too! Intentional or not, it really maintains that feeling of a fairytale or legend. As though there _is_ an explanation for everything, but our perspective is limited and we're encouraged to speculate.
Here's a thought. What if the Occa are evolved Rito? If Rito do exist, just without us ever meeting them, it'd mean that the Rito were a more skyborne tribe until the child timeline.
I have two ideas for the carving. 1. It tells the story of how a select group of Hylians transformed into the Oocca, and the actual details were to lost to history. 2. The Rito are in this universe, but did not evolve from the Zora.
If there's a story up for interpretation, I'd love for it to be this; the story of a time when an incarnation of Ganon, a Ganondorf, who didn't start out evil, and was allied with that cycle's incarnation of Link and Zelda.
This is the first video in a long time I didn't have to sit through an ad to get into your video and then another ad during the video. Thanks for valuing our time and keeping this video ad free.
Yeah for real I'm trying to understand how twilight princess link is the part of the child timeline when he's clearly an adult or close to being an adult but windwaker link who is 10-12 years old is in the adult timeline
Aaron Williams The timelines are named for OOT Link. In OOT, you transition between the “child” world and the “adult” world. Thanks to Link’s efforts, these timelines continue on by themselves. The Child timeline, naturally, follows the world Link saves as a child, while the Adult timeline refers to the timeline Link left behind after saving it as an adult.
@@BeALight-i3z Yes but not quite. Yes, in OoT, you transition between child link and adult link, however, we you go back in time from Adult Link to Child Link, you are still being sent back in time for the Adult Timeline only. The Hero of Time only ends up being sent to the Child Timeline when Zelda herself sends Link back in time, back in time before the events of OoT. Common Misconception.
Love your take on this and getting a closer look at the work of a designer I think looking at both Watsonian and Doyleist perspectives (in canon vs author reasons) is incredibly important and making sure not to forsake one for the other
"Theorizing isn't about figuring out the developer's intention." Thank you for this simple sentence, I just know I'm going to be pitching it back to people regularly
@@Chad_Eldridge i understand and i agree. my point in highlighting this particular sentence wasn't to encourage people to throw out the creator's intentions out of hand. i just appreciate the mentality that said intentions arent the endgame. we shouldnt stop theorizing just because the creator confirmed there was no intent or specifics behind something. theorizing can also be filling the blanks and making the connections ourselves going off what we're given, even if it's something we know for a fact wasn't intended to be interpreted any certain way.
I love writing stories, so here's how I interpreted the mural carvings in a three-part story: The First Sector: The Races of Hyrule communicating and forging a bond with the reincarnations of the triumvirate: Ganondorf, Princess Zelda, and Link however in this one it looks like Ganondorf is not in fact evil but rather a man representing strength of the Gerudo and the desire to reintroduce the Gerudo people back into Hyrule, a land renown on its flourish due to the blessings of the goddesses and the peoples' fealty to them. Why the sector represents a Goron in particular is interesting, and so it could be the starts of a communion with the Goron people themselves and not the other races as a whole. Something here is significant to the Gorons for them to be in this particular panel, and not any other race or figure. The Second Sector: The woman is burdened with a great task and her protector is Link. The Rito people are introduced and stand on either side, with support to the back and welcome to the front. The man is nowhere to be seen, but that means he is removed for a time; perhaps back to care for his people and leaving Link to fend after the woman alone. Whatever responsibility she carries is extremely important, and revolves around the Rito. It is possible to conclude that the Rito are in a dire circumstance and are at a point in their culture that calls for change, a change that will affect their race as a whole. The Final Sector: This one is going to get complicated -- The man has returned and stands by Link, suggesting support and aid however the woman is nowhere to be seen. Instead we see the Occa and offspring (Occa Junior) charging forth towards the Zora, who seems to be brandishing a weapon. Whether or not this particular action or depiction is a result of the First or Second, I would not know. I also would not normally suggest the Zora, of all races, to be hostile towards the Hylian or non-aquatic races of the land however this would not be impossible as it is happened before; previous games suggest, especially in the Hero Dies timeline, that the Zora would slowly mutate into monsters under the influence of corruption, darkness, and dismissal of the goddesses. It is quite possible that whatever was tasked to the woman/maiden in the Second Sector would ultimately lead to repairing whatever rift formed between the Zora and other races. Mayhaps something occurred from within that led to the corruption and allowed Ganondorf to play as a support-character this time around (however due to being the avatar of Demise, it would have to occur sometime post-cycle or with some form of anomaly to separate that dark intent from the Gerudo King). Either the woman used the blessing of the goddesses and whatever she burdened to become the first Occa and transform the Rito people into Occa as well in order to aid the Zora, or she used whatever power she had to turn the Rito into Occa to confront the Zora and their issues. It's hard to say how diverse Rito and Occa truly are since lore dictates Occa built the massive City in the Sky, or how changing/saving a race would save yet another, but this is just my theory and interpretation of the mural. Feel free to add or amend these! I'd love to see what you guys come up with!
My interpretation: perhaps the races at one point were living in peace (including links family) but ganon brainwashed the rito to terrorize hyrule, and the occocos, zora and hylians team up to battle ganon and the rito
0:36 it's funny the fact that you uploaded this video that starts with the Luigi in Super Mario 64 theory and some days later Luigi's model and textures is founded in the files of Super Mario 64 coming from the Nintendo gigaleak
Could they be symbolic, the images are literal representations of Wisdom, Courage and Power, that they aren't intending to be depicting actual people. So each panel is possibly a time when each of the three races needed, valued or worshipped one, two or all three of the triforce powers more than the others? Considering their history and stories would always tell of the powers manifesting in a blond Hylian woman, a large Gerudo featured a man and a young teen/child carrying a sword and shield it would be easy to see how their image could come to represent each part of the Tri-force in folklore and art.
I always thought it was oot or tp link’s parents trying to find another race to raise him and they just kept being denied cause remember both link’s were born Hylians but raised in separate areas kokiri forest and ordon village being the two so who knows
9:40 you absolutely nailed one of the big things I've always loved about this series. The mystery, room for imagination and theorizing given the interconnectedness of all of them. Especially when I was a kid and couldn't/didn't know how (there probably was already a bunch of info or at least theories on the timelines online already on forums or something) to look it up online; it always gave me such a sense of wonder! Although there are generally accepted timelines now and I know them, I still like to think about the ideas I had as a kid while I play from time to time 😊
The worst zelda plot hole is the fact Marin said she was going to sing for all the far away lands and then there is no legend of a magic singing seagull and Marin's song never shows up again. No MM doesn't count unless Marin's seagull can time travel. All this implies the "real" ending is the one where she dies.
They are depicting Link afer Majora's Mask doing tasks for Zelda right before Link becomes a knight. I'm thinking some war between the Zora and the Rito. Let me know what you think.
I always thought of it as a mural that represents 3 timelines seen by an Oracle Link with the Goron is OOT Link, Link with the Ritos, its WW Link, and the last link is TP Link. Why was TP like a kid? Well the Oracle cant have everything correct right?
I've interpreted it as an immortatization of a yet un-game'd adventure that Link had after returning to Hyrule, some point after Majora's Mask... From the look of it, it's depicting him going around as an ambassador of sorts... This would likely precede the depictions on Ganondorf's armor in TP HD, prior to his capture and failed execution...
Hey Zeltik! Loving your videos! I got one idea on your next video! You can make something about Lanayru Desert from Skyward Sword , no one talks about it, but I think it is pretty internesting and mysterious, like some talk about Ancient Civilizacion that lived there, or why it became desert, or Skipper's family, or how was Scervo pirate able to live so long, or how it became a desert. There are lot of uncovered questions, so I would love your opinion about it!
Here's my expertly crafted theory: Panel 1: It turns out the Gorons had the triforce the whole time, and they give it to the humans. Panel 2: The woman uses the triforce to make magical goddess juice, and sells it to the Rito. Panel 3: The goddess juice transforms the Rito into the Oocca, and they start a war against the Zora while Link and the man watch horrified. Pretty brilliant, huh?
Ok, Here we go. These 3 panels depict the 3 separate timelines. I'm assuming these were a prophetic carving from one of the Sages, and was recreated as a mural to display around Hyrule Castle. In the first panel you have the current timeline. The adult male in these panels is clearly a knight of some kind. So the man and the woman in the first panel is Link(Ocarina of time),Malon, and Link Junior(Twilight) meeting with a Goron probably Darunia... About the Triforce. The second panel is describing the adult timeline where link is with his grandma and some reto. And the third is link from a link to the past in the downfall timeline with his father who is also a knight.
i like this idea. maybe not completely onboard with there being 2 links in the first panel, the idea that the mural depicts the 3 timelines is cool. moreso with them saying the hd remake might give players hints about breath of the wild given that it's supposedly the end of all of them.
When I originally watched your video about the carvings a while back, I loved the idea of a sort of hero's journey where you do travel around and do these things- meet the different people's of the world, find the triforce, explore the lore and the world once again- but with either parents, or as part of a trio. Like, Link, Zelda, and Ganon. Either way, love the video, always happy to see your content :)
Nice vid dude! I really like it, even though I haven’t watched it. I just know it’s that good lol Edit: Now that I’ve watched it, my opinion hasn’t changed.
I think the mural might be depicting (what seems to be) the only time ever that the reincarnations is finally showing a different ages that Ganon, Zelda, and Link were reincarnated into. Indicating a possible instance in the timeline where Link passed away years after Zelda who died shortly after Demise/Ganon. Thus Link being significantly younger than even Zelda. And all three of them present when the unidentified Goron presents them with a piece of the Tri Force. I know its an odd and kind of blasphemist of me to suggest but i think these carvings tell a story of Link as the child of Zelda and an, at the time, not evil Ganon based on how the child next to the woman looks as though he is collecting water alongside his mother and the one with the man and the Zorra could be Ganon teaching his son to fight. That would definately put a surprising twist on the reincarnations and the triforce components, Power, Wisdom, and Courage. The father representing power and how that power can corrupt easily with demise slowly taking over, the mother representing wisdom and possible discovery of knowledge of her past life which puts her and her son in danger, and the child representing courage, after noticing changes in a loving fathers behavior having to build up the strength to purge the evil inside him by killing him. Not going to lie that would be a damn heart wrenching game especially if they use the child Link model throughout the whole thing. Meaning no Adult/young adult Link unless it were like an epilogue just before the credits. I would pay out the nose for a game like that
i think the man in the carvings is almost definitely Ganondorf, but i’m not sure about the woman. it looks like she could be Zelda, Mipha, or maybe even Hylia...
I was thinking the two adults in the pictures were botw links parents, as it was implied that link used to live in hateno village before he became a knight/champion. as a child he and his family traveled around for just how they saw fit
Video game concept artist here (at least at some point in my career). Lemme tell you, most of these little details in most games usually boil down to an artist thinking something looks cool, and maybe making up a little personal story for them, but they hardly ever have any real significance to the game. There are some games that do rely on non-textual narrative through environment design (like a LOT of what From Software makes), but those instances are usually made a focus through environmental and ambience design as well. You're 100% right that part of the fun in theorizing about Zelda lore is picking up these bits and pieces and just making up something in our heads for it, and I'm also sure that Jack Kirby Cosby is actually really pleased with himself by knowing that his little imagined story conveyed through texture redesign has got people's imaginations running :)
9:34 I think botw takes place so far in the future (from OOT) that it's at the end of all the timelines as the point of reconvergence, which explains why there's references to each timeline
Chrono Cross Merger, I say. Something happened after AoL, FSA, and ST that reunited the split timelines and is either the first Great Calamity 10,000 years before BotW or the run-in with Ganon that PRECEDES that incident.
Coolest part of this video was the Zelda II / BotW connection of the trophy/goddess statues. Would love to see more connections and theories from games like Zelda II, Spirit Tracks, Minish Cap, and the other not as talked about Zelda games.
seeing as there’s 3 panels, i kind of see it as a representation of the Child, Adult, and Downfall timelines respectively. the triforce is in the background of the child timeline because, well, that’s the timeline they’re in so that’s the possibility that happened/that the triforce exists within (for them) as far as in-game lore, maybe the stone worker was blessed with some kind of Visions from the gods, and was compelled to make them without really knowing what they meant
Ive only ever played breathe of the wild, but after watching all these videos and seeing how deep the lore can go, i really wanna try and play some more Zelda games
I had a thought about the Forest Temple, regarding it's significance. In the beginning of OOT, the Great Deku Tree states that Kokiri forest is a barrier deterring "outsiders"(From Hyrule or maybe beyond?) and maintaining the order of the world. The Forest Temple seems to be at the outer edge of Kokiri Forest or at least pretty far out. It has battlements as you said and may have actively stood between Hyrule and the outside world. It may have been the first line of defense before the Lost Woods. Thinking about it, the Lost Woods and the Haunted Wasteland seems to serve a similar purpose of getting outsiders lost and they are both at the opposite edges of Hyrule.
Hey guys, about the blur at 6:35 - I originally showed the texture with Jack's name visible, but after talking to him we decided that it's probably best to blur it for the video. Thanks for watching
seeing as apparently his name shows up right after? this makes little sense
But why??
So, assets from the game are somehow private information? Makes 0 sense.
The muriel could've made by a prophet/fortune teller before the timeline split & references the 3 timelines, as the Rito are only in 1 & the Zora looked hostile(River Zora)
But you literally said what the blurred part says anyways... why would there be any need to censor it
"Twilight Princess' Biggest Mystery"
...
"IN THE COURTYARD OF PRINCESS PEACH'S CASTLE-"
ya this threw me off too at first haha
I had to double check I wasn't watching a Swankybox video
Lmfao
Lol
LMFAO
Here's my take on Jack's story:
Party system, mc is link (courage), woman is wisdom (zelda) and man is power (ganon). A wise Goron tells the party of the triforce, and they go on a quest. Some problems they face require wisdom (woman gives a gift/encourages trade between races) while others require strength and power (looks like the zora with the spear is fighting Ooccoo, and the man is present). All, however, require courage (link is present throughout).
I like this idea 💡
There would have to be a new villain though, and the whole story of Zelda is that demise cursed the hero and Zelda to be in a permanent fight with ganon even when they lose, so something insanely dramatic would have to happen if ganon were to team up with them, like the curse being broken and these being the last three iterations of Zelda,Link, and Ganon. (I’m saying this might be cool as the last Zelda game ever the curse is broken the evil is gone and everyone lives happily ever after blah blah blah)
@@wilthewise2277 What if the murals were dated before the events of skyward sword, and throughout the adventures of these three, the man had been consumed by the power, becoming known as demise? Idk I'm just making stuff up on the spot, and I don't know too much about twilight princess
This is good,
but since Ganon doesn't make sense to be there, maybe it is another weilder of the triforce of power
2 Are Right But 1 Is Wrong
Video game version of
Teacher: "What did the author meant to say with these blue curtains?"
Author: "It means they have blue curtains."
tbh it be like that
Yes! Yes yes! I had a class where one girl was like "I'd bet a good deal of money that the author had no intention of half of this symbolism."
Literally, I had an English class where the person next to me and I just straight-up whispered for 20 minutes how our teacher made us over-analyze the f*ck out of these books. Like for one book, we were expected to write 2 page essay every chapter nit-picking every fooking detail and symbolism like the author left forbidden knowledge hidden away within their words of the story.
@@heroicaknight4735
And I'm sure she was immediately shat on by some proponent of Death Of The Author.
EXATCLY! Oh gotta paint a curtain... What color will make it fancier? Blue! That's it.
Then your Teacher: "Oh, blue is a color that has sad feellings, so it means the painter was sad."
"What could it mean?" "Probably just an art asset someone made up." "Haha but what if...?" "No, it's a random art asset I made." "Unless....?"
I thought you died in an atomic blast?
He does straight out say that there is a story behind it.
me: "did the woman turn into an ooccoo,,, is that link like link-link from a timeline where he just gets all 3 pieces?"
"oh wait they literally reused and hflipped layers of this drawing its probably just a random artist's day of work
*after 8 minutes of hypothetical bs* “aha nahh I’m just fucking with you, the person who designed the texture actually gave us a true answer, but my answer was longer”
Probably is just an art asset, but fans like to conjecture lore because it connects them to the world of the game…like fan art and griping.
Reminds me of the story of some Viking runes etched somewhere. Historians were thinking they're some profound statement... all it amounted to was "Bjorn was here"
Björn
@@gaspardsavoureux8680 thanks for that. Didn't have enough time at that moment to search through the character map for the right alt-code
Think the story you are thinking of is the runes in Hagia Sophia.
One of the inscriptions is so faded that only half of it is readable now, but most likely it read “Half-Dan made these runes” Old Norse graffiti.
There are a lot of rune stones in Sweden and you could think they're chronicles of amazing events or explanations of places. A lot of them are just along the lines of "Nils Rogersson is a cool and rich dude who lives here. He paid a lot of money to have this stone made. He does a lot of farming and went to England once"
Not sure why I thought of Canadian Graffiti from the Simpsons. Where he spray paints on the side of a building "Obey the Rules"
Yo what are the odds you would bring up L is real 2401 about a week before Luigi was actually confirmed to be in SM64, wild lol
Hey make a remix of Attacking Vah Ruta. The theme that plays when you are riding Sidon to attack Ruta.
Probably less then the odds Dream got
What do you mean?
Luigi is not in SM64??
Wdym
The whole situation be like:
Jack Kirby: "Hmmm, I am not an Zelda lore expert and I dont know what to draw here. I guess I'll throw some random characters from the series, I dont think it will be a problem."
The entire Zelda fandom: *Freaks out because there is a Rito carved in it, and makes tons of theories*
Jack Kirby: "Shit..... Sorry for that"
do you realize this could happen in every ancient drawing in real life? hahaha
'i just think they look neat :)'
Yeah, huge let down like the whole lore leading up to Breath of the Wild and the empty promises of Aonuma. This here is also a busted nut. It's a ruined orgasm. Period.
The depression is real >:[
Pretty much best summarizes the situation perfectly
Zeltik at 0:45: "of course, this isn't true"
Me on July 25th: are you sure about that
I literally thought the same thing lol. The fact that this video came out a couple weeks ago, right before that Mario 64 stuff happened, is a really weird coincidence
Devs: "It has no significance."
*Players: "It has no significance when we SAY it has no significance!"*
Yeah that right😤
Honestly generally how it goes. Nintendo has at least embraced it and designed their games around it.
That’s generally how writing goes.
Yeah, it’s in the game now, so it really has to be a part of the lore, structured around it or no. Personally, I think it implies that somewhere else, Zora naturally evolved into Rito, and they visited Hyrule before TP. But this is my Matpat brain talking. And it’s just a theory. A game theory. Thanks for listening.
@@goroakechi6126 This isn't a theory. A theory is meant to be as close as reality as possible, so you must consider all clues in the game. Your comment is merely a hypothesis. Cordially, a theory lover.
The carvings are depicting the events of Paper Link: The Ten Thousand Year Door. The scenes show Link and the single companion he's permitted to acknowledge at a time.
That implies we'd even *GET* a Paper Zelda 2 begin with!🤣
Zeltik: So what are these mysterious carvings and who was the extraordinary person that made them?
Jack Kirby Crosby: Huh? Oh idk, I just made them up . . .
*facepalms*
Me: . . . well at least he was honest about it
Except it doesn't answer what the original art was. He said that the source art was some Roman carving... but which one? Why did they pick that one?
@@Carikenja They were probably inspired by the reliefs of the Pantheon in Athens. The monument is famous, and the silhouettes are pretty similar. They probably don't have any significance: they were probably just intended to make the space feel like a grand castle. You have to realize that a lot of design choices for areas are based entirely on just creating an atmosphere that embodies the mood and tone that the scene taking place in it. Not everything involved in it's creation has lore significance.
@@CryptidCritter The Pantheon in Athens isn't Roman though. It's Greek. Granted, the Roman Empire copied a lot from Ancient Greece.
@@catriamflockentanz Yep. Even where the gods reside (Mt. Olympus).
YEET
I think that story he wanted to convey was one of the bearers of the triforce who rather than fall into their standard roles every reincarnation, they chose instead sought peace. Even the depiction of the Ganon like figure alongside Link reminds me of the Growing up Gerudo fan series.
the man did suspiciously look like ganondorf to me too "the nose very reminiscent of his WW and TP design). I thought at first that because link was small and it was the child timeline it was just him and the king and queen visiting the different people. But then he said he doesnt matter so yeah lol
That kinda makes sense actually.
I would love to see a game in which the incarnations of Zelda, Link, and Ganon(dorf) decide to work together, only for some bigger outside force to rear it's head. Or maybe even a sort of role reversal, in which the spirit of Demise takes a different approach and reincarnates in Zelda or Link, making Ganondorf the hero.
Maybe something link did after major's mask. When he returned to hyrule.
@@AdmiralAwsm that would never happen, it goes against literally everything.
i don't think you know much of zelda lore if you suggest something like that.
ganondorf is the same person in every game, he's not a different incarnation each time, he is literally the SAME person, cursed to be the embodiment of demise's hatred, essentially making him immortal in a way, only ever able to be sealed or temporarily killed off.
zelda's bloodline literally carries the blood of the goddess hylia, and all links have the spirit of the hero, demise would never be able to incarnate within them.
MAYBE ganondorf could overcome demise's hatred and force it to take on another form or something, cause it has been hinted at that ganondorf, despite being cursed with demise's hatred, he IS his own person underneath it all.
wind waker made it clear that ganondorf just got tired of the struggles his people had to endure while hylians lived it up in paradise, which pushed him to do what he did... but demise's hatred turned him into a bigger threat than even he could've imagined.
I have always viewed the carvings as a hint of what Link does after Majora's Mask. The woman is an ambassador, and the man is a member of the Hyrule knights, possibly the one taking Link on as an apprentice, a squire. I believe the Rito shown evolved from the Wind tribe in Minish Cap, and who eventually evolved into the Rito of BotW.
It could also be something that happens or is going to happen in the official TP mangas. Since those take a bit of creative liberty but stay true to the material for the most part.
That actually could make sense. If Link would indeed be taken on as an apprentice and eventually became a knight, that could tie in to BOTW, where I believe it’s said that that game’s Link had a father as a knight.
Always excited to hear more theories about Twilight Princess
Made the comment before finishing the video; this is more so closure than it is a theory, but the idea that the carving could eventually be significant in the future is great. I'd love to see some game happen between Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess that make the carving make some form of sense someday
I prefer the original texture in the Gamecube, this new one creates lore issues and creates more questions than answers. Personally speaking, i see it as an easter egg just like the Ballad of Gales in the game, not a real thing for the worldbuilding.
@@saricubra2867 I definitely get that; feels unnecessary when they have something using characters you recognize but has no role other than something to spark speculation, especially when it's eventually confirmed to have no purpose
Same
Damn Right!
0:44 I like how, just a week after you said that, L actually turned out to be true 24 years and 1 month after Mario 64´s release
lol
The whole "Rito evolved from the Zora" makes me wonder if the Zora can be seperated between a freshwater and saltwater subspecies, and the whole flooding of Hyrule led to the freshwater Zora fleeing from the rising sea, to become landbound and eventually evolve further to become the Rito.
How did the occa build anything being a centaurus chicken? Original form of the occa? And the zora off else where in the wind waker.
There was the river zora and sea zora in oracle of ages, maybe it could be related to that.
There are two species of Zora. Fresh water/salt water Zora (blue/white) in OOT/MM and river Zora (green) ALTTP/ALBW.
BOTW has both and new red zoras as well.
Actually, if we consider the existence of Majoras mask, there ARE Salt and Freshwater Zora variants. In Hyrule they very explicitly live in the Ancient Cistern after all, which is 100% fresh water. In Termina they live in the ocean.
The rising sea forcing the Zora out really does make a ton of sense.
@@seanrea550
I have a theory that the Occa we see in game are basically the Rito, but the form they take in Twilight Princess is a result of the dragon cursing them using the Mirror Shard it has.
Some things are better left a mystery.
Twilight princess goes from peaceful little farm to INTERDIMENSIONAL WARS
Kinda love it tbh
Sorry No Username
Yeahh...I just wish the main events weren’t so disjointed when you actually examine them.
-Ilia&Kids being kidnapped was the Inciting incident but...why...was Link left behind. Why were the youth taken at all. Why were they all separated and randomly ultimately abandoned? There’s no explanation for it at all. It gets Link’s adventure started but then unravels
-where TF did Zelda’s body come from?! She’s shown to be Solid and Not A Spirit and merges with Midna. Yet Ganondorf randomly has her body pinned to a wall. (Which, okay, it allowed Zelda to be restored and finally DO something vs a pointless surrender that actually made things WORSE since Zant did not hold up his end of the bargain and did things like murder the Zora Queen and allowed the Twilit!Bublins sack Kakariko, Old Kakariko, and Ordon. And CastleTown suffered the effects of a major drought caused by the Spirit losing its Light and the Zora being frozen...somehow?)
Then other things-like the Hylians being racist fascists bent on “solving” their problems with Genocide (absense of Gerudo but their name remains and the ruins of their home and Temple were used to make the Arbiter Grounds centuries before TP, the Sheikah locked in a ghetto and made extinct while waiting for “the messenger of the heavens”, Renaldo and his daughter having both Gerudo and Sheikah traits and wearing the Eye with their culture matching Impaz’s Statue, Twilit History having them driven across the desert to eventually be executed or banished (with Ganondorf sharing this fate) but also waiting for their own Savior just like the Sheikah)-aren’t even really a subtext thing.
But then we have simpler stories that have subtler complexity that DO stay tight when examined (LBW comes immediately to mind.)
There’s a lot to theorize with TP, but I wish most of it wasn’t caused by Dropped Threads. Random Ruins and who built them? Twilit’s Ancestors? Great! Good! Villages Attacked but never a WHY? NOT good. At all.
@@anonymousfellow8879 Huh... those are all actually really good points that I never realized playing the game. There so much cool stuff in the game that I loved & never realized most of it doesn't make sense. Interesting
Arkterrus
Yeah, same honestly. The game’s still enjoyable and the Emotional Beats that they want to hit still hit for the most part.
(Much, much better than, say, OoT. Honestly, the only bit I enjoyed were the labyrinths from a gameplay perspective, and I’ve been in the fandom since 2D Zelda. Which, those levels are definitely decent, but I still found better Atmosphere or Complexity in various 2D Zelda. The Fire Temple especially kinda had an identity crisis, and I think I’ll always be sore about how poorly thought out the Zora Tunic was as a mechanic...for a WATER Level. It’s sad when the Zora Flippers as a reoccuring item beat out...the tunic. When there’s an above-water swimming animation and other games of a similar era-like Spyro-actually thought that part of the gameplay out AND used it multiple times. Which, despite Water Levels being a staple since LttP, only 2D/Handheld Zelda have done anything with it. Even with TP having an amazing swimming mechanic!)
...digressing.
Fans want Varied and Themed labyrinths in botw2. I just want a good swimming and underwater combat system that’s actually thought out and isn’t just a one trick pony. (There’s more to a Level than its atmosphere...which I always find lacking. Nothing’s tackier than calling an area “sacred” when there’s NOTHING in there other than Basic Level-no tapestries, no alters, no dormatories, no catacombs as Emergency Exits...nothing. And “dungeon” is also a misnomer-there’s nothing resembling a brig the majority of the time, and if there’s torture or execution devices it’s Level Only vs Envrionmental made INTO the Level. For actual Atmosphere that felt like what it said on the tin? ...I’m gonna go with the Forest Haven despite the flack it gets as overly simplistic in level design. Or Forsaken Fortress, even. Definitely BotW’s Ruined Castle, and its Beasts at least had a plot relevant function even if players found them monotonous. (Have they played Zelda1 or LttP? Digressing again... But. BotW really does have one of the strongest stories and actually handled the Amnesia trope WELL. Everything ties back together.))
@@anonymousfellow8879
That's pretty simple. Zelda has the Triforce of Wisdom, Triforce holders when in Twilight dont operate the same as normal people. Link goes Wolf, Zelda IS probably a spirit with her body in the castle w/ Ganon but her spirit is solid thanks to Triforce.
As for the genocide, well, the royalty isn't usually known for being reasonable after being assaulted multiple times. After Zelda and Link either leave or are on a quest, I'd wager the councilors opt to wipe out the Gerudo and Shieka, Ganon makers and "evil" magic users respectively, then by the time Link and Zelda return the damage is done.
From a purely us vs them mentality it makes sense. Unfortunately.
@@anonymousfellow8879 Well, Ganon is a top-tier wizard so maybe he did some magic shit to get her body.
As for the Gerudo. Well, unlike in BOTW, they used to be at the very least thieves, and at most evil witches (Twinrova). With some exceptions of course. The fact that Ganon is their king doesn't help.
My interpretation:
The three pictures could depict the three time lines. As for the triforce in the first carving, it's rays shine in all three carvings, showing how, while shining strongest in the first implies timeline, it's power still passes through ALL THREE time-set-dimensions. As for the adults, they could be representations of Link's parents in different timelines in which one or both survive the tragedies that may have befallen them in former interpretations.
"Rito" is from the Japanese word "tori" which means bird. Rito is just a catch-all term for bird folk in Zelda. This would include races like the Fokka from Zelda 2.
If you take the letters from Rito and rearrange them. You get tori you mean?
Aw you beat me to it
More people need to know about the Fokka
Naizo = Zonai
Tori = Rito
Are there any more examples of this?
@@jtrader1999
Japanese works in syllables. So you take To-ri, and make Ri-to, not letters alone.
.
3:58 something to note: all 3 panels have the same "background," with the Triforce's "rays" emanating outward continuing through the following two panels.
Loved the video! Man, those Oocca sure are strange, someone should make a video on them...
I love your channel too
:0 hEllo NBC
Well that's ominous... Ya got plans there my dude?
@Egor Zaborov прив русский человек.
@NintendoBlackCrisis (OP)
And hopefully that person pronounces the name right...
I personally think that the events might actually be at different points in time, even in different timelines, which would explain the different species appearing. The whole effect is that whether in physical or ghostly form, the Hero of Time was present for the entire timeline. The first panel makes me think of Skyward Sword, the second seems like possibly Windwaker era, and the final is definitely Breath of the Wild. And the Hero of Time was there for it all.
Anyone wishing that Nintendo would give more information on the Breath of the Wild sequel? Keep up the good work, Zeltik.
Hopefully there will be a trailer on the July 20th direct that's rumored to happen
There's a semi-credible rumor indicating that there will be a direct on the 20th. If that indeed is the case then I really hope we get to see more of the sequel. It's been over a year since it's initial trailer.
Benjamin Denverstone -I do
i wonder if its actually a prequel, set 100 years before botw, because ganon is in it even though he died in botw
@@shwibbleglibble7197 lol nope
First panel. "Hey can we trade this kid for this triangle thingy?" Second panel. "Hey can I trade this kid for this cool pot thing?" Third panel. "Hey can I trade this kid for that weird looking bird pet thing and it's floating head?"
Hold on, you're telling me game developers just do things for the hell of it and don't analyse 30 years of game history to implant lore into their games?
My interpretation always has been that Child link went on to have a few more adventures in his time in Hyrule, most often just being a delegate or Ambassador of the Royal family. If we then accept that Link made contact with the Gorons, Rito and Oocca, a few more connections line up.
The Snowpeak mansion has pictures of the Oocca, despite them apparently being legend. Well they would be more than legend to someone who interacted with them and was a delegate to them. Bringing up the thought that the Snowpeak mansion once belonged to Link.
His acquaintance with the Gorons also explains why he trusted them to keep his bow to pass on to the heir to his bloodline
And the rito likely just evolved in a different way in this timeline. In real world evolution, one species evolving does not necessarily mean the destruction of the prior species. Evolution can be caused by a species being separated for example.
What's with the Triforce though? Well Twilight Princess also tells us that people were corrupted in their seeking out of the triforce, so lying about it's true location would mislead people in their search for it
Here’s my take:
The goron is young Links “brother.” In ocarina of time after the deku tree dies, and even leaving Saria and her becoming a sage, Link has no other family or bond other than his brother gorons. The man and woman aren’t necessarily people or characters, but ideas or choices of our hero. The goron is showing him that whatever path he chooses, it will still lead to his destiny as the hero.
The woman could represent the adult timeline with the Rito. She carries an urn representing the death of old hyrule and the birth of a new one. (Alternatively, women with children in art can sometimes be seen symbolically as fertility or birth or rebirth. So a new hyrule being born after Wind Walker). The picture with the man can represent the child timeline. Our hero who is a boy will soon grow into a man. There is no rebirth, but instead maturation, change and coming of age. So that’s why the Zora and Oocca are there, there is no new hyrule but it has grown.
So my theory is that this is just showing us the two paths our *successful* hero (emphasis on successful) will take after the events of ocarina of time :)
I think this is the best theory about the reliefs that I've read so far, it makes a lot of sense, especially if maybe one of the Zelda's (either OOT Zelda or one before TP started) had a vision because of their powers or the Triforce of Wisdom that Link going back created different timelines. It does make me wonder if they didn't see the downfall timeline or just refused to acknowledge it. It they just ignored it, though, I have to wonder why. But long story short lol, I like your theory.
I like this theory a lot. I imagine the Gorons would become the closest thing Link would have as a family following OoT. Unless Malon got jealous… 😏
My theory is that the Rito were actually a separate race which the wind waker sage married into. The Rito and coca are distant cousins, like zora and Zola in the Oracle games.
Well they did say in Wind Waker that the Rito evolved from the Zora but Zora exist in other places besides Hyrule so just because the Hyrule versions turned into birds doesn't mean EVERY Zora in the world did.
@@MysteriousTomJenkins you'll have to refresh my memory of where they say that. I know that the zora sage says that Medli is her descendant, and that the Rito get their wings from a scale of valoo, but I don't recall any of them saying that they used to live in water or used to be called Zora.
I always thought that certain Zora simply migrated to other areas to avoid conflict/ stay safe and the Zora that didn't decide to migrate became the Rito. The Zora that did migrate eventually came back at some point during a time of peace.
@@cioplasmmajic8327 Im pretty sure it's in Hyrule Hostoria, aka the Big Book of Zelda
The one problem I have with the "Zora evolved into the Rito" theory is just, why? Why would the people who live in water evolve into birds? Especially in Wind Waker of all games, where the world is mostly water. There's probably an explanation for it, but I don't get it.
The hylian shield is a good example of things that were explained or expanded upon in the later games.
Like how there's a red bird in link's shield but later we found out about loftwings and skyloft
Glad to see you back, buddy.
Honestly I've always just assumed they were meant to represent the re conversion of all the timelines into BOTW in a metaphorical sense rather than a forgotten tale of the Hero of Time. With the Rito and the Zoras being in the same location, Hero of time representing the child timeline etc.
Either way in most cases the mystery themselves is more captivating than the answer we eventually get. So I look at this the same way, not disappointed the answer leaves a lot to be desired, just intrigued at the possibilities such a mural could have represented.
One of my favorite "not cannon but becomes cannon later" is the TetraForce. Originally, in LoZ OoT, we had what seemed to be an extra piece of the triforce on the bottom of the hylian shield that would fit into the triforce. This caused many people to believe that there was a missing piece or even a missing Goddess. Years later, and Nintendo saying that the TetraForce isn't real, it did turn out that there was a missing Goddess. The goddess Hylia was never mention until Skyward Sword and is now a major important piece in Zelda Lore.
One thing that people seem to miss is that the stone carvings don't necessarily have to depict a story that actually happened in-universe - they could be legends or fables. If the existence of Rito doesn't make sense in this timeline, the carvings could just be portraying a fable involving birdmen that never actually existed, for example
i always thought the panels represented Zelda, Link And Gannondorf and all the races living in harmony and sharing the triforce.
nope
*sweet harmony plays in back*
Lot's of people who are fans of any game ever needs to see this video. Props to Kirby for his quick reply. Games are littered with these little gems: I remember trying to decode the letters on a sign in OOT when I was a wee lad, only to much later (after giving up) notice all the sings were the same. One of the funniest dissapointments of my early life.
I just wanna know more about Demise
What's to know? Be evil demon man. Fight Goddess lady for pretty triangles. Get turned into scaly teeth monster. Get murdered by young boy and get stuck with a robot sword roommate as your conscious slowly erodes. Standard stuff.
Ziggy Mandarr
That’s kind of the timing, though, he’s super uninteresting because there is like, no info on him. He’s just evil. Like, who are his parents, where did he go to university, where does he work out because he’s super swole, stuff like that.
@@ched.sulyvahn2105 it was elmo
that much i know
Do you always have suicidal tendencies?
I do love the freedom and creative stories that can be made from working on Zelda theories. However, it'd be amazing if most of them, if not all of them, actually had official answers that are hidden from us.
This touches on my favorite thing when it comes to Zelda lore. The vast majority of it was never intended, but leaves the door open for discussion. The fandom has effectively written a more compelling narrative for the overarching series than was ever thought up by Nintendo.
I love it too! Intentional or not, it really maintains that feeling of a fairytale or legend. As though there _is_ an explanation for everything, but our perspective is limited and we're encouraged to speculate.
Here's a thought. What if the Occa are evolved Rito? If Rito do exist, just without us ever meeting them, it'd mean that the Rito were a more skyborne tribe until the child timeline.
That eyebrow arch in the thumbnail tho...
I have two ideas for the carving.
1. It tells the story of how a select group of Hylians transformed into the Oocca, and the actual details were to lost to history.
2. The Rito are in this universe, but did not evolve from the Zora.
If there's a story up for interpretation, I'd love for it to be this; the story of a time when an incarnation of Ganon, a Ganondorf, who didn't start out evil, and was allied with that cycle's incarnation of Link and Zelda.
I've always felt the carvings show the life of the Hero of Time after Majora's Mask.
"Twilight Princess' Biggest Myste-
Zeltik: Well escuuuuuuuuuse me princess!
As Sigmund Freud once said: Sometimes a Cigar, is just a Cigar.
Anyone who's ever run a D&D game knows exactly how this feels
I've watched enough puffin forest and dingo doodles to feel this.
But in Arcadum's case, the connections are intentional.
This is the first video in a long time I didn't have to sit through an ad to get into your video and then another ad during the video. Thanks for valuing our time and keeping this video ad free.
BREAKING NEWS: People are still trying to understand the Legend of Zelda's Timelines.
Emphasis on the plural of timelines
Yeah for real I'm trying to understand how twilight princess link is the part of the child timeline when he's clearly an adult or close to being an adult but windwaker link who is 10-12 years old is in the adult timeline
Aaron Williams The timelines are named for OOT Link. In OOT, you transition between the “child” world and the “adult” world. Thanks to Link’s efforts, these timelines continue on by themselves. The Child timeline, naturally, follows the world Link saves as a child, while the Adult timeline refers to the timeline Link left behind after saving it as an adult.
@@BeALight-i3z Yes but not quite.
Yes, in OoT, you transition between child link and adult link, however, we you go back in time from Adult Link to Child Link, you are still being sent back in time for the Adult Timeline only. The Hero of Time only ends up being sent to the Child Timeline when Zelda herself sends Link back in time, back in time before the events of OoT. Common Misconception.
@@aaronwilliams4459 Twilight Princess link and Ocarina Of Time Link arent the same person
Love your take on this and getting a closer look at the work of a designer
I think looking at both Watsonian and Doyleist perspectives (in canon vs author reasons) is incredibly important and making sure not to forsake one for the other
And now we know there was an unfinished skin for Luigi in Mario 64
You're like the VaatiVidya of The Legends of Zelda. And it's more than just the charming accent. Excellent videos I always look forward to.
"Theorizing isn't about figuring out the developer's intention." Thank you for this simple sentence, I just know I'm going to be pitching it back to people regularly
@@Chad_Eldridge i understand and i agree. my point in highlighting this particular sentence wasn't to encourage people to throw out the creator's intentions out of hand. i just appreciate the mentality that said intentions arent the endgame. we shouldnt stop theorizing just because the creator confirmed there was no intent or specifics behind something. theorizing can also be filling the blanks and making the connections ourselves going off what we're given, even if it's something we know for a fact wasn't intended to be interpreted any certain way.
Midna’s Lament started playing at around 8:20 because obviously Zeltik was very sad that the carvings weren’t what he thought they were lol
I love writing stories, so here's how I interpreted the mural carvings in a three-part story:
The First Sector: The Races of Hyrule communicating and forging a bond with the reincarnations of the triumvirate: Ganondorf, Princess Zelda, and Link however in this one it looks like Ganondorf is not in fact evil but rather a man representing strength of the Gerudo and the desire to reintroduce the Gerudo people back into Hyrule, a land renown on its flourish due to the blessings of the goddesses and the peoples' fealty to them. Why the sector represents a Goron in particular is interesting, and so it could be the starts of a communion with the Goron people themselves and not the other races as a whole. Something here is significant to the Gorons for them to be in this particular panel, and not any other race or figure.
The Second Sector: The woman is burdened with a great task and her protector is Link. The Rito people are introduced and stand on either side, with support to the back and welcome to the front. The man is nowhere to be seen, but that means he is removed for a time; perhaps back to care for his people and leaving Link to fend after the woman alone. Whatever responsibility she carries is extremely important, and revolves around the Rito. It is possible to conclude that the Rito are in a dire circumstance and are at a point in their culture that calls for change, a change that will affect their race as a whole.
The Final Sector: This one is going to get complicated -- The man has returned and stands by Link, suggesting support and aid however the woman is nowhere to be seen. Instead we see the Occa and offspring (Occa Junior) charging forth towards the Zora, who seems to be brandishing a weapon. Whether or not this particular action or depiction is a result of the First or Second, I would not know. I also would not normally suggest the Zora, of all races, to be hostile towards the Hylian or non-aquatic races of the land however this would not be impossible as it is happened before; previous games suggest, especially in the Hero Dies timeline, that the Zora would slowly mutate into monsters under the influence of corruption, darkness, and dismissal of the goddesses. It is quite possible that whatever was tasked to the woman/maiden in the Second Sector would ultimately lead to repairing whatever rift formed between the Zora and other races. Mayhaps something occurred from within that led to the corruption and allowed Ganondorf to play as a support-character this time around (however due to being the avatar of Demise, it would have to occur sometime post-cycle or with some form of anomaly to separate that dark intent from the Gerudo King). Either the woman used the blessing of the goddesses and whatever she burdened to become the first Occa and transform the Rito people into Occa as well in order to aid the Zora, or she used whatever power she had to turn the Rito into Occa to confront the Zora and their issues. It's hard to say how diverse Rito and Occa truly are since lore dictates Occa built the massive City in the Sky, or how changing/saving a race would save yet another, but this is just my theory and interpretation of the mural.
Feel free to add or amend these! I'd love to see what you guys come up with!
My interpretation: perhaps the races at one point were living in peace (including links family) but ganon brainwashed the rito to terrorize hyrule, and the occocos, zora and hylians team up to battle ganon and the rito
2:37 The ritos are doing the peace sign just because
0:36 it's funny the fact that you uploaded this video that starts with the Luigi in Super Mario 64 theory and some days later Luigi's model and textures is founded in the files of Super Mario 64 coming from the Nintendo gigaleak
Could they be symbolic, the images are literal representations of Wisdom, Courage and Power, that they aren't intending to be depicting actual people.
So each panel is possibly a time when each of the three races needed, valued or worshipped one, two or all three of the triforce powers more than the others? Considering their history and stories would always tell of the powers manifesting in a blond Hylian woman, a large Gerudo featured a man and a young teen/child carrying a sword and shield it would be easy to see how their image could come to represent each part of the Tri-force in folklore and art.
I always thought it was oot or tp link’s parents trying to find another race to raise him and they just kept being denied cause remember both link’s were born Hylians but raised in separate areas kokiri forest and ordon village being the two so who knows
So, interpreting the carvings in the wall is just like how English teachers see books.
9:40 you absolutely nailed one of the big things I've always loved about this series. The mystery, room for imagination and theorizing given the interconnectedness of all of them. Especially when I was a kid and couldn't/didn't know how (there probably was already a bunch of info or at least theories on the timelines online already on forums or something) to look it up online; it always gave me such a sense of wonder! Although there are generally accepted timelines now and I know them, I still like to think about the ideas I had as a kid while I play from time to time 😊
My favorite game of all time, lets go!
These carvings may come to be alive one day! Cheers for the video 😄
zeltik: "L is real isn't true"
everyone: *laughs in N64 gigaleak*
The worst zelda plot hole is the fact Marin said she was going to sing for all the far away lands and then there is no legend of a magic singing seagull and Marin's song never shows up again. No MM doesn't count unless Marin's seagull can time travel. All this implies the "real" ending is the one where she dies.
They are depicting Link afer Majora's Mask doing tasks for Zelda right before Link becomes a knight. I'm thinking some war between the Zora and the Rito. Let me know what you think.
I always thought of it as a mural that represents 3 timelines seen by an Oracle
Link with the Goron is OOT Link, Link with the Ritos, its WW Link, and the last link is TP Link.
Why was TP like a kid? Well the Oracle cant have everything correct right?
that's why I respect this channel: not only theories but debunking theories as well.
I've interpreted it as an immortatization of a yet un-game'd adventure that Link had after returning to Hyrule, some point after Majora's Mask...
From the look of it, it's depicting him going around as an ambassador of sorts...
This would likely precede the depictions on Ganondorf's armor in TP HD, prior to his capture and failed execution...
Luigi just got found.
As soon as I get that notification I click right away!!! Loving the content Zeltik
The L is real texture from Super Mario 64 is present in Ocarina of Time, as well. You can find it on a tablet in Dodongo Cavern's top floor.
I was Just Watching His Zelda Movie Theory.
The Kid Icarus Anime Mini Series Did it Best.
absolutely in love with how the link in these carvings is just the same image seemingly randomly slapped onto the pics
it just looks like he wandered onto set i love it
Nintento already debunked the "L is real" thing years ago, people still debating it are wasting time on nothing.
*Laughs in future*
HAHDJDJAJHFF MAN THIS AGED TERRIBLY
Hey Zeltik! Loving your videos! I got one idea on your next video! You can make something about Lanayru Desert from Skyward Sword , no one talks about it, but I think it is pretty internesting and mysterious, like some talk about Ancient Civilizacion that lived there, or why it became desert, or Skipper's family, or how was Scervo pirate able to live so long, or how it became a desert. There are lot of uncovered questions, so I would love your opinion about it!
Here's my expertly crafted theory:
Panel 1: It turns out the Gorons had the triforce the whole time, and they give it to the humans.
Panel 2: The woman uses the triforce to make magical goddess juice, and sells it to the Rito.
Panel 3: The goddess juice transforms the Rito into the Oocca, and they start a war against the Zora while Link and the man watch horrified.
Pretty brilliant, huh?
So glad to have this cleared up!
Ok, Here we go. These 3 panels depict the 3 separate timelines. I'm assuming these were a prophetic carving from one of the Sages, and was recreated as a mural to display around Hyrule Castle.
In the first panel you have the current timeline. The adult male in these panels is clearly a knight of some kind. So the man and the woman in the first panel is Link(Ocarina of time),Malon, and Link Junior(Twilight) meeting with a Goron probably Darunia... About the Triforce.
The second panel is describing the adult timeline where link is with his grandma and some reto.
And the third is link from a link to the past in the downfall timeline with his father who is also a knight.
The adult male figure does seem to be wearing a tunic
i like this idea. maybe not completely onboard with there being 2 links in the first panel, the idea that the mural depicts the 3 timelines is cool. moreso with them saying the hd remake might give players hints about breath of the wild given that it's supposedly the end of all of them.
That's pretty clever, Blinx the Red One (love your name btw)
@@janTesika thanks and double thanks :D
@@ZainKaneko Well... it's just because the father of Link from Twilight Princess... was Link... from Ocarina of Time
When I originally watched your video about the carvings a while back, I loved the idea of a sort of hero's journey where you do travel around and do these things- meet the different people's of the world, find the triforce, explore the lore and the world once again- but with either parents, or as part of a trio. Like, Link, Zelda, and Ganon. Either way, love the video, always happy to see your content :)
Nice vid dude! I really like it, even though I haven’t watched it. I just know it’s that good lol
Edit: Now that I’ve watched it, my opinion hasn’t changed.
Nice
Nice
Nice
Very nice
Nice
The thumbnail reminds me of Racing for Rupees
I think the mural might be depicting (what seems to be) the only time ever that the reincarnations is finally showing a different ages that Ganon, Zelda, and Link were reincarnated into. Indicating a possible instance in the timeline where Link passed away years after Zelda who died shortly after Demise/Ganon.
Thus Link being significantly younger than even Zelda. And all three of them present when the unidentified Goron presents them with a piece of the Tri Force. I know its an odd and kind of blasphemist of me to suggest but i think these carvings tell a story of Link as the child of Zelda and an, at the time, not evil Ganon based on how the child next to the woman looks as though he is collecting water alongside his mother and the one with the man and the Zorra could be Ganon teaching his son to fight. That would definately put a surprising twist on the reincarnations and the triforce components, Power, Wisdom, and Courage. The father representing power and how that power can corrupt easily with demise slowly taking over, the mother representing wisdom and possible discovery of knowledge of her past life which puts her and her son in danger, and the child representing courage, after noticing changes in a loving fathers behavior having to build up the strength to purge the evil inside him by killing him.
Not going to lie that would be a damn heart wrenching game especially if they use the child Link model throughout the whole thing. Meaning no Adult/young adult Link unless it were like an epilogue just before the credits.
I would pay out the nose for a game like that
These theory’s make me think more about the series
Oh so I’m EARLY early (Notif Squad)
i think the man in the carvings is almost definitely Ganondorf, but i’m not sure about the woman. it looks like she could be Zelda, Mipha, or maybe even Hylia...
Team twilight princess !
The best game 😁
0:22 I just learned the word plinth, hell yeah.
14 seconds ago. damn i'm early
HA! I got it at 13 seconds!
I was thinking the two adults in the pictures were botw links parents, as it was implied that link used to live in hateno village before he became a knight/champion. as a child he and his family traveled around for just how they saw fit
Video game concept artist here (at least at some point in my career).
Lemme tell you, most of these little details in most games usually boil down to an artist thinking something looks cool, and maybe making up a little personal story for them, but they hardly ever have any real significance to the game. There are some games that do rely on non-textual narrative through environment design (like a LOT of what From Software makes), but those instances are usually made a focus through environmental and ambience design as well.
You're 100% right that part of the fun in theorizing about Zelda lore is picking up these bits and pieces and just making up something in our heads for it, and I'm also sure that Jack Kirby Cosby is actually really pleased with himself by knowing that his little imagined story conveyed through texture redesign has got people's imaginations running :)
9:34 I think botw takes place so far in the future (from OOT) that it's at the end of all the timelines as the point of reconvergence, which explains why there's references to each timeline
Chrono Cross Merger, I say. Something happened after AoL, FSA, and ST that reunited the split timelines and is either the first Great Calamity 10,000 years before BotW or the run-in with Ganon that PRECEDES that incident.
Why does that mysterious man look like gannon
Coolest part of this video was the Zelda II / BotW connection of the trophy/goddess statues. Would love to see more connections and theories from games like Zelda II, Spirit Tracks, Minish Cap, and the other not as talked about Zelda games.
This is probably one of the best videos on Zelda Theorizing I've eve seen
seeing as there’s 3 panels, i kind of see it as a representation of the Child, Adult, and Downfall timelines respectively. the triforce is in the background of the child timeline because, well, that’s the timeline they’re in so that’s the possibility that happened/that the triforce exists within (for them)
as far as in-game lore, maybe the stone worker was blessed with some kind of Visions from the gods, and was compelled to make them without really knowing what they meant
and now L is truly real
Ive only ever played breathe of the wild, but after watching all these videos and seeing how deep the lore can go, i really wanna try and play some more Zelda games
You should. They're all incredible. TP and WW are easily the best, but the plots will make more sense if you play OOT first.
Love your narrating. Very professional
I had a thought about the Forest Temple, regarding it's significance. In the beginning of OOT, the Great Deku Tree states that Kokiri forest is a barrier deterring "outsiders"(From Hyrule or maybe beyond?) and maintaining the order of the world. The Forest Temple seems to be at the outer edge of Kokiri Forest or at least pretty far out. It has battlements as you said and may have actively stood between Hyrule and the outside world. It may have been the first line of defense before the Lost Woods. Thinking about it, the Lost Woods and the Haunted Wasteland seems to serve a similar purpose of getting outsiders lost and they are both at the opposite edges of Hyrule.