Fight ‘rules’ meant to be broken
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- Опубліковано 12 лис 2022
- Never cross your feet? Always keep your hands up? We challenge you to ask “why?”
That is… if you understand fundamental fight theory and technique.
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Bruce Lee said -- "Before I studied a punch was just a punch and a kick was just a kick; after I studied a punch was no longer a punch and a kick was no longer a kick; and when I understood the art a punch was just a punch and a kick was just a kick." When you actually understand fighting you understand that the rules are more about probability than about certainty.
Great vid. Great point.
Great quote and great point. Nothing is certain in a fight.
He just copy pasted that shit from Buddhists' nondual teachings.
It’s an honor to have taught something on this channel 👏👏🙏
Honors all mine, Sensei 🙏 Thank you.
I can’t describe how enthralled I am to see all you guys collabing. Please do it more often! Shane I have been following you for at least four years, have bought your fight equipment, and I watch most of these other channels as well. Thanks for the education and entertainment!
Same minus the fight gear I've been watching all the channels lurking lol
I mean this is pretty basic but, my favorite English teacher back in high school told me that authors were allowed to break writing principles such as run-ons, incorrect grammar, Chekhov's Gun, etc, because they're familiar with the rules and know how to break them to achieve a desired effect. This can apply to many things, but I think in the case of fighting it's about being deliberate and having everything serve a purpose, whether it contradicts the basics or otherwise. It's less "What are you doing" and more so "Why are you doing that".
These collabs have been great, good work!
Basically, break the rules if you're good enough to not fuck it up.
@@masonwillms2542 Haha, pretty much. Good enough to not be punished for breaking the rules.
I tell my beginning students, "we teach the rules and once you learn them we teach you when and how to break them." This is a concept taught to me by Dog Brothers co-founder Marc Denny.
I have less than 6 month training and still watched it! Watchu gonna about it Shane😜😜
Nice vid man thx for the hardwork you and all of them that collabed with you
🤣🤣🤣
These collab vids in this style are some of the best Martial Arts discussions happening on the internet today. Excellent work, guys.
This needs a part 2 tbh
The rules to me are just what favors a balanced stance and defense. Love the options on rule breaking. I wonder how many coaches will go crazy with the beginners that watch this and try it in practice. Cool uploads 👍
As a lifelong athlete, when I was learning to box it was the HARDEST thing. Coach said don’t “bounce”, always keep my hands up, etc. When I sparred, I was too “stuck” trying to maintain these uncomfortable positions
THANK YOU SHANE!!! I've been saying this for YEARS! Obviously for beginners you want to give them proven theory and battle tested techniques. BUT when you've mastered the BASICS, NOW you can break the rules. Now you can do what the great are/were doing, like the Ali shuffle, like bending at the waist and not the knees, like switch hitting. It's the mark of a true master
Bending at the waist...thank you for this one 💪🏾
I think Seth leg pulling might be true. The fundamental rear leg push and lead leg step offline and pivot work less often when you start training with people who has equal or more skill than you, since everyone drilled the basic as well. Hell, the Dutch don't even pivot, they just kick 45 degree straight up like an ugly soccer kick because of their boxing heavy style, something almost every Muay Thai coach would tell you not to do
My teachers rarely used the word never. They'd say don't do these things, but not never, and in my mind there's a distinction there. The only thing I can remember any of them saying never to do was "never do anything without purpose." Love these collab videos, keep up the great work!
So many great tips and such great info on so many things. Great video Coach and thanks for the opportunity.
That give up your back strategy is brilliant man.
@@yashasupercow99 as I said it was Frank Shamrock that said it originally.
Still loving these collaborations
One of your best videos yet Shane, its been awesome to see you become a real master of the art yourself, always a student. FightTips forevaa
Shane I still remember your very first video, seeing you now with all the other martial artist UA-camrs is so anazing
Brilliant video. It’s great to get new perspectives
4 yrs of training and the video I was looking for is here thankyou
you’re so knowledgeable but not only that you know how to communicate and instruct it that’s dope af
I am loving these collaborations. Boxing & Wing Chun is my thing. To see a the wealth of knowledge like this all in one room, so much fun, Incredible!
So much knowledge in one room 👍
Usually when you're learning anything you wanna learn the fundamentals and be really good at those and then you can start to break rules.
I agree. This is true for any sports. Any high level athlete you see doing things has mastered the fundamentals before breaking the rules. I think a true legendary athlete is essentially like an artist. He must create his own style but first he has to master the foundations and rules.
@@loverofhumanity yep anything martial arts to brain surgery.
This feels like the Avengers of UA-cam Martial Arts. All reunited.
Great point by Gabriel Varga about watching great fighters in slow motion! I do that all the time... I watch fighters on UA-cam on .25x speed and you see a lot of “rules” broken and notice many things that you don’t pick up at full speed.
Awesome video of all the main youtube instructors this was an amazing video.
Not clicking off. Any information from more experienced persons is always good to hear.
one of the best vids you've done
Great video!
One thing people forget about martial arts is the art part. If some one paintes a beautiful painting but used unconventional or even counter intuitive means to do so it doesn't mean they are a bad painter because they broke some rules. Infact id argue the opposite, they were able to take something that was considered foolish to do and incorporated it into there style and still make something beautiful makes watching there process all the better. Which is what fighting is, the end result may be a KO or win by decision but how the got there, the process its the fight its self. The old saying of learn the rules, make the rules, and break the rules i feal is especially useful in martial arts..
Loving the collabs guys, agree with ye guys, and love the intro 💪
Thank you for this video.
This really applies to alot of stuff. I was thinking of Pernell Whitaker's footwork especially on defense. His balance is solid, but the way he is using footwork is very unorthodox and could be risky.
And this applies to anything too. Like I was also thinking about aggressive motorcycle riding techniques. For example how you use your eyes, they say look in the direction of travel. In reality you need to look at the ground too, you have to see cracks, debris, or gravel that can cause you to slip. Or keeping weight off the bars, but in hard braking you're pressing your body off the bars and pushing your ass down in to the seat. This keeps the rear wheel from coming up when braking hard.
Everything is situational, and if something is right most of the time that's what is taught to beginners. The exception to that rule can be taught later, though it often isn't.
I find it takes a really good teacher who knows his student, or enough heart and experience to jump in the deep end and break the rules.
And you're right, cause when you look at the GOATs, breaking the rules is playing by them. Gotta take the leap if you want that shot ig
Shane Fazen and Gabrial Varga always give the best tips!
Cool Video! A lot of what the others said are techniques that they have developed as their own signature styles!
“Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.” - Picasso.
it is called martial ARTS after all
The rant in the beginning has the cadence of a cool camp councilor telling his kids to behave
Nice shirt & great content !
Thank you man, thank you ڵ really
I watched this specifically because of the foot crossing thing
In my experience, striking arts (even ring arts like Muay Thai) are more prone to dogmatism and formalism than grappling arts. Since so much of striking training is done outside the context of a fight (bagwork, padwork, kata, shadowboxing, and so on) students are assessed largely on how their strikes *look* rather than what they accomplish; a student is told they have a "good" left hook is one where the elbow and shoulder and such are properly aligned and angled according to their coaches idea of what a left hook is supposed to look like.
I remember working with a boxing trainer once, and I asked him his feelings on thumb up vs palm down vs thumb down when throwing hooks; he responded "never throw a hook with your thumb down, that's wrong." And my mental reaction was "golly, someone should tell Fedor Emelienenko he's been punching wrong.
Conversely with grappling, since techniques are practiced on partners - either in drills or rolling - there's a much broader implicit understanding that how a technique looks is going to very from person to person, depending the size of the bodies involved. And because we have a definitive mark of whether a technique works or not (did your opponent tap), there's less need to assess the correctness of a technique based on how it looked. It it worked, it was probably good technique. The equivalent for striking - if a strike knocks out your opponent - is harder to assess, since in the gym you're generally not trying to KO your sparring partners and pad holders.
I've never had a grappling coach who insisted that your elbows must be exactly so far apart during a rear naked choke the way the minutia of body positioning is emphasized in striking. Even things like whether or not to cross your ankles during an armbar, which I remember being told was "bad form" in the mid 2000's, seems to have largely moved to "do it if it suits you."
thank you for coming to my ted talk
Thank you for your Ted Talk, point well driven 🤝🏾
Damn, such a cool introduction 😎
Sensei Seth's pull on the kick reminds me of Karuhat's advice on how to maximize momentum for kicks. Sylvie has a great instructional video on it
FACTS
Fighters with cat reflexes (Prime Roy Jones jr for example) can get away with keeping their hands low. Their reflexes and fight instinct will usually get them out of harms way. For everyone else, dropping the guard and sticking their jaw out in the air against elite competition will be punished hard in 10 out of 10 times.
@Kodiak Combat Collective : One element does not exclude others. Head movement is obvious, guard or no guard. In MMA, and maybe especially among fighters that has their base in wrestling, you are watching just too often that they move forward and back in a straight line. They make counter punching very easy, cause you only need timing regarding the forward motion itself. You can even close your eyes, and know you will hit your target right on the button.
Dope video! Going on 8 years in my current practice, my teacher has always said that your hands can adjust based on your proximity to your opponent. If you're on opposite ends of the ring, you don't need to be covering your eyes with 12 oz. gloves. If you wanna stand toe to toe and start inboxing, maybe it's smart to cover your chin.
We often say "he took his back" and "he gave up his back" to mean the same thing, but I think this video explains the difference between those two things.
agreed. there is a point in training where we tell our students you have learned these rules to create good habits, now lets break them intentionally to create openings
That "Click off!" 🤣🤣
"Rules Are Mostly Made To Be Broken and Are Too Often For The Lazy To Hide Behind.” - Douglas MacArthur
Oh man Seth's example is a brain teaser for me. Cause I can see how you can also kind of use the slight pulling force to utilize the angle you've created much faster. And it's also good for energy conservation, I think? Will have to try that. The rest are also awesome, but that one just started an avalanche of ideas with me.
Roy Jones fought with his hands down all the time! He was so awesome for that!
Great content. Wish you guys could do a fun collaborative seminar or training camp for us to join
👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
Marvelous thumbnail
3:00 Icy Mike getting *this* close to Master Ken level there! :-o
love it. But mine is palm down on hooks. change my mind. XD.
Pulling on the roundhouse is true though, I've practiced it a bit for a while and it did make a difference in speed and power. Sort of forgot about it later on but I'm sure it would be worth practicing specifically.
Moral of the story:
Its not a beguinner mistake because you can not do it. Its a beguinner mistake becuse you can't do it right!
I come from a karate background and started muy Thai. Everything I do is "wrong" haha
Bro tbh I couldn't do Muay Thai for that reason. I don't believe it's wrong to have a karate style kick it's just different. Not wrong.
The rules are there to help you learn the basics so that you can brake them later, there not absolute.
Shane, didn't have a coach on this channel a while back that taught to keep your lead hand low? (I know some pros do it anyway, I do it quite a bit too (not a pro))
As long is sears the image in the beginners head,it gets the job done,but the more you grow,you’ll learn you don’t have to take it so literal,but that the phrases are 99% right in the right situation
03:57: GOAT facts. 😂
these collabs and diff views with all of you are great, where are Oliver and Jesse? Supply chain issues?
gabe in the back like "what the fuuuck are you all talking about" lmao
how come you don't do self defence videos anymore? the quick tips were really good.
Because there's only so many thing about self defense (which is different from street fighting), unless you're living in a very complicated area with constant violence, which is not his expertise.
@@jaketheasianguy3307 No he use to make them every week. He has helped loads thousands of people with bullying.
@@sammysam6522 Where are you getting those numbers from?
@@jaketheasianguy3307 Street fighting is not a thing. Unless you mean 2 untrained morons flailing their limbs very uncoordinately as street fighting
@@Seraphim262 He had videos on before on self defence and bullying but he took them down
Shane, Grow that stasche out G. its TIME lol
Commenting for the algorithm
Icy Mike doesn't understand the guard AT ALL... but the rest of it was good stuff.
The reason that you have a guard where you have it is relative speed of motion. A jab or straight right hand, if you don't read it as coming before the other person is in motion, is roughly 1/100th to 1/16th of a second slower than your reflexes. If your forearms/elbows/hands are not already interposed in the travel path of those punches, you will get caught cleanly by them. My advise for guard is always "block your view of the opponent's shoulders" - once the person's punch is extended, that is roughly where the punch will be coming from. You have the reflexes to stop/avoid other punches. It's those two straight punches, particularly the straight back hand from a man (wide shoulders) or the snap jab from a woman (wide hips), that will clip you repeatedly when your guard is wrong and easily knock you out. And yes, a woman with a good jab CAN just knock you out with it. There's a bio-mechanical advantage in play.
High guard is a boxer's mistake. When there are gloves involved (especially thicker ones), the solar plexus is much less vulnerable. But if you try to high guard vs someone who knows how to attack you, they can target your solar plexus with penetrating shots and take away your ability to breathe at all - you'll have about 10-15 seconds of fight in you after that. If you have never dropped someone "effortlessly" this way... well I have, on multiple occasions. If your hands are above your face, you are asking for it. This is EASY to do to someone if they don't defend. It doesn't require power, just technique and speed. You are trying to hit me. All I need to do is tag your diaphragm muscle with a strike that I can throw from literally any body angle at all.
Low/no guard is an athlete's mistake. You get used to being faster and more mobile than the other guy. Your speed and reflexes are your weapon. Then you fight someone faster than you, and your weapon becomes your Achilles' Heel. Or you get caught flat footed at just the wrong moment. It happens in boxing quite a bit. Guys operating out of a Philly Shell meet an opponent that can tag them at will. Top contenders meet and the one who is used to being more athletic than his opponent loses because he has bad habits with his guard. A sound guard wins fights between equal combatants.
I'm a fan of being half a second ahead of the opponent. That's where a lot of the well timed "rule-breaking" comes in. You bait the movement you want to see, and you are already in motion with your counter before they complete what they were trying to do to punish your mistake. You break the rules against fighters who will see and pounce on mistakes - not on ones that will let most of them go by, forcing you to "make mistakes" often so that you never know when they are coming in to catch you. It's mainly useful against mid-range talent. And there's a mathematical formula for it - you only take the "oops I made a mistake" bait 1/4th to 1/5th of the time. It's enough that your baiting opponent will think you aren't coming in, without passing on more opportunities to catch them than you actually need to skip. The same formula works in reverse with offensive threats - roughly 3/4ths to 4/5ths of your attacks should be feints, which maximizes your chances of getting your opponent to misread whether or not your attack is a feint.
That center of mass drop into a jab is a good move. Most impressive advice in the video. I've seen that same technique used when throwing a lead hook. It really messes with people when you drop levels but keep striking.
"Never give up your back" thats the one I wasn't thinking of, yet I definately hear the most. Coach made a great point but Iron Mike is right. "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." So is having a plan enough to validate giving up your back?
The idea is if you are just stuck and know a decent defense for back attacks and understanding there are not a lot of submissions from the back, it is a viable option to maybe escape. Just don't give your back up and not have a defense or plan basically.
I like saying that in everything you have superseeding principles.
So you learn your basic principles, certain rules not to break as a beginner so don't give up easy to punish openings to opponents. Once you've trained for a few years, you can learn when those principles can be superseded, or broken.
I do this when I teach, like always face your hips to your opponent. I just don't think bladed stances work in real fights against a trained opponent. Squaring off just gives you more weapons to attack and defend with, and you can get all the power you will need bare handed. But I would never correct an experienced fighter that is doing a bladed stance because they understand how to shift weight, move, and check hard low kicks.
can you make a video of how to fight going through all the basic and advance things you can do in a fight because i have a fight on friday and i don't know how to fight
What kind of fight on friday? like a street fight? boxing? mma?
@@anonymoose2474 mma
@@EzL_123 why are you doing an MMA fight if you don't know how to fight
how about don't get into fights if you can't fight that's a better idea
@@cahallo5964 bro you do know people get into fights by doing nothing
They are great bc they are special athletes and talents. MOST people should never break the rules no matter how much training they have. MOST people are limited forever.
I was going to click away when you said to, but I decided to break the rule.
7:01 how about on the lead hook???
The only reason why I wouldn't do this because it feels direspectful towards my coach...but he does let me do some of these if it's once or twice then I go back to basic of basic.
Things are until they are not, and never until they are. - Me.
I could follow up and say : no need defense! look Rodtang does it.
“strike with the outside of the foot when doing a side kick” for me. it’s just inviting an ankle sprain. strike with the bottlm of the heel instead for a much sturdier impact.
Anderson Silva is both a great example of extreme success with hands down, and the danger of not having hands up.
And the dangers of aging and wear and tear. I think a fighter who's style is keeping hands up most of the time will be capable of greater longevity. Father time is p4p greatest ass kicker in history. Once the reflexes start to slow down, even a little, it's a bad time for fighters who rely so heavily on them.
the infinity war of fight youtube
I feel like this is just mind gaming. Happens in video games a lot. You bluff something, that baits the enemy, then you capitalize on it.
I didn't want to mention videogames.
I'm a fighting game nerd and this video is 100% applicable.
Don't know if you know FGs but for example in Tekken certain characters can wavedash towards opponent to close distance.
Expert players can feel the timing that they can continue to wavedash in the players face and then attack at the right time.
You wouldn't tell a new player to run at opponent and let them hit you (keep your guard up) but having those hands down can lead to offense
I'm surprised by the comments disregarding this video, but trying to explain a point to someone who isn't listening is pointless
@@Guitar-Dog in Guilty Gear strive one of my favourite "techs" is to just straight up slowly walk up to the opponent and grab. Like, not even run. Against low level opponents it will never work, but against high level opponent's with really solid fundamental defence it can work better than the usual high-low-overhead mixups or frame traps. The better you get the more you have to break the rules which is how you really develop your own style.
@@Guitar-Dog I definitely wouldn't dismiss it. These techniques are why fighting is compared to chess. You can outsmart the opponent
Do you have any advice preventing your opponent from using your reflexes against you?
Stop depending on your reaction, steal the initiative, be more aggressive. He can't bait or faint or messing up your reflex if you're the one pushing pressure on to his face, forcing him to focus on defending himself. Make people play your game, don't play their game
It's not your reflexes then.
It's you getting baited.
Think you need to switch your perspective a bit.
How to not react to feints or not be baited is better wording of the question will lead to better answers
Even, how do I actively counter and guard attacks without putting myself at risk.
It seems like however you react to the feints could also be a problem, putting yourself at too much risk
1. Compete within your range. Better competition is good, but not too much better
2. Learn to like getting hit. It is sport. Think strategically and know taking blows is part of the sport. At least don't fear it.
3. Optimize your fight related qualities -- mitochondrial function, cardio, lean strength, quickness, techniques, etc..
4. Take your time and get experience.
If you do all those things, the details will work out.
If you are always sparring the dude's who have better rankings in every category, good luck... that's like you sparring with guys who lag you in every category... you aren't even worried about their "shuck and jive," you fight right through it. The real issue is quality of your opponents.
Search up “The Unfettered Mind” pdf and read it. Should help.
It is not your opponent using your reflexes against you, but your tunnel vision that is impeding your actions.
Idk if this is a rule but I was always taught to parry with the opposite hand for punches and most of the time I do, but there are good counter attacks from parrying with the same hand
Angles, sawstep, gets the right check hook just right
There is levels to this shit!
best crossover ep ever. better than Simpsons and family guy crossover ep
"Go watch one of the recommended videos" *sees insect tier list* Alright man whatever you say if it'll help.
I cant conform this but i remember i saw a vedio of Mohammed Ali said the most danger fighter is the free style fighter woth no strict rules
When you know the rules you can break them
Kazushi Sakuraba was famous for giving up the back in Pride, Jack Slack has a great breakdown on how he built the majority of his submission game through that and abusing the Kimura.
It's knowing when to break the rules.
man I wish master wong and ramsey dewey were here too.
Or simply never copy another fighting style, create your own, with hard work, experience and learning from mistakes
Yup, rules are meant to be broken, but you must know the rules before you can start breaking them.
I say you don’t have to swing your arm when you throw round kick.
Gotta know the rules before you know how to break them in a way that benefits you in a fight.
l'm out 😅
edit: yes I gave it a like and left at 24 sec.
Why x
@@Guitar-Dog the look on his face.
The first rule of Fight Club is that you do not talk about Fight Club !
I train Muay Thai and I cross my feet all the time and it doesn't affect me at all