Response to claims that Irvine's body was removed from Mount Everest - Part 1
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- Опубліковано 18 лют 2024
- A discussion of a recent interview with Jamie McGuinness where he states the Chinese told him the body of Andrew Irvine was removed from Mount Everest prior to 2008.
Discusses how a different version was told to Mark Synnott in The Third Pole and outlines the remaining two parts of this video series.
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Those Sherpas names are all listed in the film credits as well, further endangering them and their reputation. Do we know the status of those Sherpas and their livelihood? I can't seem to find any mention or follow up on that aspect, and I hope they are unaffected..
This is a good question. Lhakpa Tenje -- the lead Sherpa who raised the issue has not climbed since then according to the Himalayan Database. Not sure why, but if he was planning on retiring anyway, it is not clear why he would insist on going to the summit as he had already been there twice before.
@@michaeltracy2356 Thank you for your input, Michael. Hoping their careers have not been jeopardized by the exposure of being accessory to the other's delinquency. Will keep an eye on the database for them this season. It would surprise me if any Sherpas agree to risk climbing with them again.
Jamie addressed this in another thread.
Q: so the Sherpas are still able to work in Tibet and are not blacklisted? They can summit in Tibet again?
Jamie McGuinness: Correct - the climbing Sherpas are not blacklisted. It is the companies that are more closely scrutinized.
It is not clear how McGuinness would know this. The Chinese do not publish their "blacklist." The mountain has been closed and for the couple of Sherpa I checked, none of them have climbed in China since 2019. They have climbed in Nepal. Doesn't mean they are blacklisted. Just means that haven't climbed, as reported by Himalayan Database. I suppose we will know later this year when we can check if they were indeed allowed in. As with Conrad Anker, you don't really know until you get there.
I've been absolutely relishing the drop on this video ever since you first mentioned it on your community wall. Your channel has been an endless stream of intrigue about the Mallory and Irvine story. Your videos challenging the claims of the 1960 chinese ascent have been endlessly fascinating and the subtle bits of humour thrown in just make this channel a little gem in the internet rough. As i come back to the channel to rewatch past videos, the pieces do fall in place rather nicely and I just keep coming back to see where the rabbit holes leads. Looking forward to getting my copy of the The Third Pole. We appreciate all of the work you do! We're manifesting the chances some big news happens this year in lieu of the 100th anniversory of the M&I ascent. -And Looking forward to the rest of this series.
all these people seem to do is fling yak dung in every direction. it takes patience and a sharp eye to pick out the kernels of truth they are careless to leave behind. MT, you do a great service to the truth and to the legacy of these great men.
McGuinness's claims don't even pass the sniff test. For example, he notes proudly that he slipped in a "leading question" during his 2010(!) conversation with the liaison officer, and got the apparent revelation about Irvine's body. And then: nothing. No follow up, just "I didn't think to ask more." Same with his visit to the museum in Lhasa. He sees all these amazing artifacts, but doesn't think to take notes, ask questions, etc. He says he was left with the impression that the people there assumed everyone knew about it, so there should have been no need to tread lightly. But he just let it go, and apparently has not followed up in the 8+ years since then.
A common MO they use is "playing dumb." Mark Synnott wrote about the museum in his Salon article years ago -- the name of the museum, that there was a video about it. There is a long video that shows all the exhibits. I did a commentary on it a year ago: ua-cam.com/video/Xc3kjmPmzpA/v-deo.html
As I'll get into the the Deception of the Sherpa, this is a role Thom plays. He did the same thing with the Sherpa and he does it every video he makes. Leaves stuff out and plays dumb. He even interviewed Mark Synnott and they talk about the museum. Later, Thom says he never heard of it. And for some reason, people believe him.
I have a simple MO; if you can’t tell me the name of the person who told you the story and you have no documentation of the story, the story didn’t happen.
@@michaeltracy2356Thom? Thom who ? Lmao 😅
@kencusick6311 idk its not that simple, with all the traveling I've done I don't remember everyone's names , not too mention not everyone lives a sober lifestyle and alot of partying and drinking happen when traveling the world which can affect memory n whatnot and when dealing with foreign people alot of the time they give you a nickname or an "English" ame that isn't actually their name
@@andrew-rn9ui I’ll assume that is true. At best, such stories peak one’s curiosity to investigate further. But they cannot be evidence. If the best you have are such stories, all you have is another yeti story. Pollard’s video is a compilation of yeti stories.
I saw the Jamie McGuiness interview on Thom's channel and there were a couple of notable moments where he became vague in his storytelling that were somewhat puzzling to me. Thanks for helping to put the pieces together with your intelligence, wit and truth seeking. Long live critical thought.
Also Jamie says he visited the private museum in one of Thom’s recent videos but says he can’t remember what he exactly saw and was planning on writing it down but got busy talking to someone….that seems very odd
yeah, i noticed the same thing,,,, the guy spent his whole life trying to uncover what happened, then when he actually gets to see real evidence... no pictures, no journal, doesnt know where he was, nothing.. what a fraud..
I thought this too, he should have been like a kid in a sweet shop, taking note of everything. Especially if it puts to rest something you have been investigating for so long.
@@Assassin90Nine Exaclty, and why did Jamie keep looking in the same area after he was told the Chinese moved Irvine. All these guys are full of crap. Especially Thom Pollard
Damn you do the people a fine service Mr Tracy. I cannot wait for parts 2 & 3.
You have made me see this entire thing in a different light. Thank you sir!
Huge respect for the person who keeps releasing these videos time to time, and I guess it has been already 10 years or so, if I am not wrong. So many excellent contents and as someone already said - looking forward to the next video. 👍
Very interesting. I look forward to the next installment
Great video! Excited about the next videos!
Man, I love your videos and your passion for finding the truth. I always look forward to your next video drop.
I do find it hard keeping up with things that have been mentioned or cross-referenced in other videos, though. My mountaineering experience is less than zero, but I find the whole Malory and Irvine and Mt Everest story absolutely fascinating.
I hope you get the time or have the inclination to make this into a book at some point so the story can be read start to finish, hopefully with the finding of Irvine.
Keep up the good work, Michael 🙂
Pinocchio comes to mind. Thanks for your thorough research, as always, Michael.
I can't say as much as I would like but you are 100percent correct keep up all the good work warms my heart to see the truth come out.
Now THAT is a tantalising statement! I always go through the comments to see what titbits people are saying. I don't know who you are or why you would have information of relevance to this topic about Irvine's body but I certainly will continue to glean as much information from those in the know. I have always had an interest in Everest and knowing how close we are to 100 years since the pair died after, I believe, they became the first 2 people to summit the mountain. The closest I ever have or WILL have to Everest is having Lincoln Hall's then teenage sons dancing naked on my roof nearly 2 decades ago. I only found out later on when my daughter told me that they'd been at my home as I was working at the local hospital as an RN back then. I actually said to my daughter when she said that the Hall boys were at mine "Who's Lincoln Hall?". I hope that the lies in this story, wherever they may be, will be bought to light in this saga! Take care now.
I came across the video blindly so what he’s referring too that’s got everyone shook up
The little nugget you mention about Mark Synott not going straight back to the fixed rope after looking in the Holzel slot is fascinating. Maybe he DID see Irvine, and is hiding this info until he can go back.
As I listen to all of these different vids by yourself and others, it reminds me of my grammar school days when teachers taught us the difference between fiction and non-fiction....All the others are blatant fiction, kudos to you Mark, for staying grounded in non-fiction... Your facts stand as they are....Well done Sir
Michael.
Excellent video and great critical information. Can't wait for part 2
All 3 of this series are out.
Good work. Constructing a timeline like this is of paramount importance in solving mysteries. Perhaps this video will elicit some clarification from the players.
TY Michael 🙏🙏. As others have said, looking forward to your next video!
Hey Michael, it's been 24 hours man. Where's part 2?😅
Yes yes I’m eagerly awaiting it 🙂
If the body was removed, they did it for a practical purpuose, we don't know about. Not because they feared some old camera, or were even aware it was Mr. Irvine. To get answers people need to turn to the known facts. The fall-line of Mr. Mallory. A possible fall-line through the couloir. As You do. Are there any able climbers still willing to search (I surely can't)?
This is a very interesting and provocative video
I must say, Jake Norton’s website showing all the past searches on the mountain is pretty interesting & informative. Especially the one view taken from a helicopter that shows the an unobstructed view of the entire North side (normally, Changtze blocks the lower half.) is a pretty spectacular.
So is the basic premise here that they do believe he is in that area and are promoting the removal theory so that they can go back themselves to make the discovery?
A recurring theme in this channel is to look at what people do rather than what they say. Based on what McGuinness did, he believed the body was in that location on the mountain in 2012. It does not really matter what he says about it.
As I state in the video, there is a lot of information, and the third video will have to get into some realities of searching. Realities that have not really been talked about and most people will have a difficult time accepting. After having been told the same story over and over for 20 years, it is difficult to introduce a plot twist without 100% proof. So sure, if I have a video of a person doing the exact think I claim he is doing, well that isn't really any critical thinking. It is watching a video and stating what I saw on it. It appears that this is the level of "proof" that most people are expecting, and it is unlikely to come.
If you think outside the box, you will see there are alternates to what everyone is saying. Just like the debate was never really between the First and Second Step, the debate is not "the Chinese removed him or he is still there." But until you see the "zig-zag" alternate, it is sort of pointless to go on about. There is a perfectly valid explanation that covers everything. But it is not any of the simple versions that people are throwing about in the comment sections and likely most people will be unwilling to accept it. If the drone footage is ever released, it should be possible to prove it one way of the other. Which is why the drone footage will likely never be released -- but not for the reasons commonly thought.
@@michaeltracy2356 I suspect the drone footage shows nothing. If they had found Irvine, the world would have heard about it within 15 seconds, just like the discovery of Mallory. Same people, same MO. There is no reason to wait for 2024 to make the announcement when money can be made right now. Releasing footage showing nothing? Nope. Not worth the trouble.
I watched the video in question and found it to be a concocted narrative of he said, she said type of Chinese whispers. There was no merit in the story told and indeed it was a STORY-TALE👌
Like always good job. @Michael do you still think that it will be possible to know what happened even if Irvine gets found? Loved the satellite option....but unfortunately drone footage is what is needed. Looking forward to your next videos!
I think you meant doesn't get found. I'll get into that in the 3rd video, but it would seem that if we can piece together where his body was, it rules out a lot of the crack pot theories. Once you rule out the crack pot theories, there is really only one that remains.
Perhaps the watch could be evaluated in more detail. Certainly if the time of death was 1:27, we can be pretty sure what happened. Not proof enough for most people, but may be the best we can do.
The second best thing to the 1:27 time of death would be someone summiting through the Zig Zag. For me that would confirm they did it.
@@mathieuvalade9632 Didn't a team already do a version of the zigzag?
@@michaeltracy2356 I think even if Irvine’s body is found, it’s pretty much impossible to 100% confirm as I’m pretty sure the camera would not have been close to him had he died from a fall (most likely).
If only we could have Thom Pollard hold a seance….perhaps we could communicate directly with the one person who knows the truth. Chairman Mao. 😂
Thanks for the info! These are great videos.
When is part 2?? Looking forward to it
No one can create a maze quite like unscrupulous men.
Thanks for your relentless pursuit of truth in a wilderness of BS.
I'm appalled by the lack of character of these people. I wonder what do they expect to gain while basing their stance on flimsy, easily debunked lies.
Hello, does anyone have an invite link for the yeti academy discord server for discussion about Mallory and Irvine?
thumbnail on point lol
Get the feeling they found him , and are just keeping it quiet till they get back on the mountain ?
That was my earlier hypothesis. However, there is a photo that shows it might be something else -- and I am more included to believe photos than conjecture and speculation. The photo will be discussed in the third video.
@@michaeltracy2356 They found a Yeti with summit rocks in his paw. Haw, haw, haw.
It's possible the Chinese found him and buried him somewhere. To my understanding, when they moved Greenboots, I don't believe they made any announcements about doing it first. They just did it, and then people eventually figured out what happened. That is "my" understanding of it, and it wouldn't surprise me if this plays out kinda simular. But unfortunately it looks like certain people "may" actually know where his burial location is now, and are keeping tight lipped/being deceptive, because they want to cash in on a big payday.
I hate when people partake in double talk and convenient excuses. So this Mark Synnott fellow is the one who unclipped himself in the film "The Ghosts Above?" Terrible decision. That guy had an agenda. Kinda like how Conrad Anker "just so happened" to be wandering around where Mallory was found. These guys know more than they're letting onto and want the credit.
Conrad went off and below his search route (according to his story and the 1999 team narrative) to follow the lead given by the Chinese about Mallory's location (according to what Tracy says here) and walked right over to Mallory, and ever since he has claimed it was the result of his intuition and savvy. I have to wonder if that elevation band was assigned to another climber or a different day and Anker just went off -script to collect the trophy.
Thom says that Jamie has (A) spent 20 years establishing a successful climbing business on Everest, and (B) become close friends with many high-ranking chinese officials during this time.
He appears to think that this makes Jamie's statements more credible.
🤔🤔🤔
No doubt he did. But that they can't entertain the idea that all those contacts and relationships might have told him the actual location of Irvine. Because the first thing he did when being told whatever it is they told him is go look for Irvine in a very specific spot when there was too much snow to remotely hope to find anything unless you knew exactly where to look.
Great video Michael, just as a matter of interest is it possible using drone footage to pick out where George Mallory was found and is buried ,if the answer is yes does it exist?
Mallory's location can be determined from the original photo of his body -- as it includes the various landmarks in the background. In addition, Jake Norton fairly accurately marked the location, as discussed in the "Jake's War Map" video: ua-cam.com/video/uJc3AD80UA4/v-deo.html
McGuinness claims they flew the drone over Mallory's location but there was too much snow to see anything. However, it is not clear what they used for "Mallory's location" as the various published locations are incorrect and move from year to year -- which I also discuss in the above video.
Thanks for the feed back .@@michaeltracy2356
Kinda just seems like they dont want anyone else looking for him. Makes sense why they wouldnt release the drone footage. They dont wanna 'help" anyone else find him.
Could irvings body have fallen farther down below Mallory ?
Certainly. Would make it pretty easy to find, so let's hope so. Easiest of all would be if it fell to the bottom. Bodies come up out of the glacier frequently, as was seen with Maurice Wilson. Unfortunately, this "easy mode" is probably not likely because Hazard searched the bottom in 1924 and Odell was in that area in 1938 and certainly could have seen a body if it was visible that year. Can't be ruled out, but the Mountain rarely makes things easy for us.
Wow. Michael. I’d love to hear more about these searches. “The bottom” is the main Rongbuk glacier which is on the other side of the North Col from Advanced Base Camp. It seems that no one ever goes here because it’s not on the main route.
I always wondered if Mallory's rope-jerk injuries would tell you if he was pulled from behind or was the one falling. Guess not...
@@michaeltracy2356 I believe they are in proximity of each other, the pick was found hundreds of feet (found by 1933 BMEE) above where Mallory was found in 1999, I'm 99% certain they were tethered to one another, and the pick belonged to Mallory, not Irvine as alleged (the etched marks were done by sherpa Kusang Pugla at the direction of Wyn-Harris who said there were no marks when he picked up the pickaxe -1933 BMEE). Mallory's body is face down spread eagle, back & buttocks exposed, both right leg & arm broken, left leg, arm & hand expose, left hand still has skin color and no sign of frost bite.
I have the sneaky suspicion Irvin'e body was found in the same approximate location of Mallory's, but we are not being told, the why is tthe big question. June 6th, 1924 both Mallory and Irvin were last seen 800 feet below the summit, in the May 1924 photo Irvin can be seen with a duel oxygen pack, and Mallory had not been out of the British Army station in Italy. I believe they made it to the top, everything I've seen minus an archeological/forensic report, leans toward them having made it to the top.
Mallory and Irvin search expedition of 1999 would imply any findings, physical evidence, and location would mean careful documentation. No doubt the team had sufficient and detailed documentation that has been kept from the public. Much is not being revealed, to do so would mean re-writing history, and political propaganda! JMO, Mil/LEO Analyst ret.
@@pauldavis4287 During the 1938 expedition they did climb North Col from the west. Don't know if it's been done since.
Thank you! I could barely watch that TP video, as my BS meter was in the red. I can never make it through any of their videos, something about vanity and bullshit overload always makes me move on quickly. Cheers!
Be sure to check out this video from Thom where it appears to not be complete BS. Calls the 1999 team a bunch of liars, cheaters, and deceivers: ua-cam.com/video/NRbhT4eQXxY/v-deo.html
I think I saw that one. That guy is all over place in regards to stories, his memories of things, etc.
@@michaeltracy2356 He is calling them out on other things, though. Things that piss Thom off are not the things that piss others off.
Thats an interesting watch @@michaeltracy2356
One thing I’ve learned is Thom doesn’t like answering the tough questions on his page, especially about the glove that went missing
Try asking him about Sunita Hazra. That one should get you an instant ban.
@@michaeltracy2356 Can you give a little backstory ?
@@michaeltracy2356yes, who is that person?
@@jamessales9047 Looked into it, was the lone survivor of a Indian group who were passed by Pollard and others. She was saved by someone that gave up their summit bid to help.
@@michaeltracy2356 That or asking where Mallory’s other fingerless glove ended up
Hm, yah, so I skimmed that interview btwn Pollard and McGuinness and I did have to stop b/c Pollard kept saying like a bit of a maniac how the Chinese really don't like bodies on the mountain and they remove them. Just a kind of wierd look on his face. One I thought, sure, they might hack them out and push them off, maybe, but they don't "remove" them or why would they not also dislike the trash and remove the trash. Removing bodies would mean they are veritably superhuman. Anyway, more I was disturbed by his repeating the statement and the look on his face. I wondered how much money he'd been paid to say that. My Yeti senses, maybe. .. And!..
And credit to this channel, I'm much more in touch with my Yeti senses. Well, and I've watched all the videos at least once, many twice or more. And I read comments. Anyway, more in touch and practicing acting on them. Just last week, for example, I realized my auto repair place was preparing to shed me of a lot of money. They are very highly rated and always full of cars, and my car runs very well. And they are in walking distance. But, and not to get into a long story, I could just tell they were priming me. Not that they "lie" but that they are adept at the game. I followed my Yeti senses to another shop, as highly rated but clearly hungry for business and I'm sure I've saved several hundred dollars. I think we often have the sense of illusion occuring but it takes confidence, practice, to grab onto the illusion and take another action. Cheers, thanks!
He also thinks the 1960 team reached the summit. As soon as someone tells you the 1960 team made it, you know everything else is yak dung.
As a total cynic, I'm wondering whether it's at all conceivable that the entire thing from top to bottom was created drama that, in fact, lead Sherpa, Lhakpa Tenje, agreed to. As happens far too often these days, it seems that morals and ethics take a backseat, if not go out the window altogether, when people are trying to generate profit on any subject matter through documentary / youtube views, and/or book, photographic, and/or relics sales. One example, as you mentioned in an earlier video, was the secret revisiting of Mallory's body two weeks after the original "discovery," which involved even more body desecration from additional digging, chipping, chopping, and photos/relics-taking.
Coming from that angle, is there even the wildest possibility that if Lhakpa Tenje was considering or had already definitely decided to retire that, for a nice chunk of money, he might have been willing to go along with the creation of a more dramatic story line? I may stand alone on this, but as I already wrote in lengthy comment to your previous video on the topic, there's no doubt in my mind that creating high drama was a major motivator in whatever happened and was presented around "discovering Mallory's body".
Many thanks for all your videos. You always make me think.
You can join the discussion on Discord : discord.gg/6bZZn8xzxX
What was the deception by the sherpas during the 2019 expedition? Did I miss your vid on that?
It was not "by the sherpas" it was how they decided the Sherpas about what they were doing. A good overview is in the Ghosts Above video. I have not covered it previously as it is only relevant to see the MO that they are using over and over again. Lies, half-truths, and having a group of 3-4 people who all "agree" and make it seem like everyone is being honest when, in fact, it is just a group deception.
When the sherpas refused to help the team search for Irvine's body, for which the team clearly didn't have the authorities' permission, they decided to tell the sherpas they were going to the summit instead, promising not to search for Irvine's body during the summit. But they didn't promise the sherpas that they wouldn't search for Irvine's body on the descent, which, while not being technically a lie, was an obvious deception.
@@michaeltracy2356 Sorry. Didn't mean to imply the Sherpas were part of the deception. I'll go review the "Ghost Above" vid. Thanks for the reply.
Summit fever equals...
Treat the truth carelessly.
So Jami sees a "1920s" boot in the private museum but doesn't get a shot of it? Did he examine it, check the maker/size? Hmmm
Michael, expound in the future if you feel this question has merit and validity....From a forensic pathological perspective, explain how George Mallory is found with only one boot and two distinct cuts in the rope....???...Always have found it odd that the 1920's laced boot, with multiple layers of socks, would somehow become entangled and "slip or be pulled off"...It was always my vision in seeing George Mallory, frantically and with a courageous sense of finality, that he not only cut the rope freeing him from Andrew Irvine but also cut his boot off with his leg already badly fractured knowing he would undoubtedly parish yet still give Andrew Irvine a "lone survivor's chance"......Thank you....Frank
He as found with the second boot decayed in place. The upper part of it remains, and I have see that part on display at the RGS. He died with 2 boots on and one decayed off -- likely because it was more exposed to the wind.
The problems with the rope are too difficult to say. We don't know how many cuts in the rope there were originally because they cut it in multiple places and didn't mark anything. So, the rope was cut -- sure, but the 1999 team. But what was it like before it was cut is a mystery. As the total length of the rope is far less than what they reported seeing on the seen, it appears that some of the rope is missing as is the second glove. So, can't really say much about the rope.
Thank you for your clarification...After two weeks of deliberations in 1999, perhaps one should have thought about using a cooker so boiled water could have been used as opposed to ice axes...!!!...From a forensic preservation it's mind boggling they didn't utilize boiled water.........
@@fconnor Look up "boiling water on Everest"
I don’t understand the 1996 statement about “2 bodies found… no old bodies found”. What do they mean by “no old bodies found”? Does this mean the “2 bodies found” were actually more recent climbers (for 1996)?
It means there is an official party line "No old bodies found." That means you must always say the official party line no matter what. Because the party is never wrong. Then you find an old body and you want to report it. So you say a body was found. And then repeat the party line.
It is little different here and you can try to explain the difference between "Black Lives Matter" and "All Lives Matter" to someone who speaks only Chinese. It is part of the post-truth world we live in. China is only about 5 years ahead of us, so best learn fast.
@@michaeltracy2356 thank you Michael, that makes sense now. Sorry if I appear to be a bit thick but if I "read between the lines", you don't believe Irvine was actually removed from the mountain, correct? Otherwise, why would Synnott & rest of them have bothered setting up expeditions to find him, right? Not to mention the practicality of removing a body ensconced in ice for a century. They should have had to chisel it out and therefore destroy it completely, which seems a lot harder to do than to pile up rock on top of it.
@@rg3412 I don't know what happened. I do know there is a group of professional photographers that keep wanting to tell us the body was removed while they hold on to drone photos that one of them wrote in his book would be released. And these professional photographers have not released a single photo showing anything. Instead, they make videos where they are talking to people.
If the Chinese recovered the camera, why wouldn't they release film to the science community for authentication and publication?
Because it has summit photos blowing the 1960 Chinese 'conquest' of the North Side to pieces.
There's a video that MT made under the title, 'It is Known', that goes more into the Camera mythos and with an attempt to debunk previous statements that the Chinese are hiding the camera. It's extremely likely that the VPK story only exists to distract the real question whether or not M&I contained samples of summit rocks on their person. The '99 search team was suckered by this bogus Camera story and they *didn't even* attempt to search for them. I'm just paraphrasing but in the video description, it provides some good background knowledge. It's a huge rabbit hole, so prepare nicely with chips and a nice drink.
Removed means thrown off..........dont mislead the sheeple. Dumped. Thrown down................. !!!!!!
Why would China "hide" the remains? What would be their motivation? This is a sincere question..
This is sort of like asking "Why would the United States 'hide' the body of Osama bin Laden?" If you really have to ask, then you probably would not understand the answer. But if you are sincere in your quest for knowledge, you should start by listing all the other bodies that the Chinese have hidden and see what you can learn about from those.
Should we be expecting a bombshell reveal June 8th, 2024 ?
Prior to this video series, I thought we would. At this point, I find it unlikely. Hopefully, this video series explains what happened. And, no, it was not the Chinese.
@@michaeltracy2356 if not the Chinese who then? To what end?
@pauloalvesdesouza7911 we'll probably have to wait for the rest of the series. To what end? In no particular order there's fame, glory, notarity and money
I don't think that there will be any reveal. If there was a reveal of the "truth about Irvine's body or location" it would expose these three guys as charlatans, to quote Michael Tracy. I mean how many versions of this story are they going to tell?
@@edwardbenton4428 that might be their motivation, but seek that based on lies is despicable. As it has been all through history.
I only jad a smattering of knowledge about the controversy over Irving, I have been following Mallory, and I don't know much about mountain climbing, save for UA-cam, but that video was recommended to me, and I actually watched it yesterday.
I was totally distracted, because I kept on wanting to pause it and ask, yes...and?
It struck me as disingenuous, insincere and evasive. They sounded as if their stories were not true and made up on the fly. Or practised beforehand. Not good, for an outsider looking to them for a convincing narrative.
Even the whole Mallory story has me not knowing what to believe and wondering about the modus operandi.
I'll be looking forward to your next two videos.
It seems that "outsiders" such as yourself pick up on these issues much more readily than people who have become attached to the personalities telling the stories.
You might want to take a look at some of the other videos: The Watch, and The Plan will explain most of the details of the 1924 climb. Thanks.
"That video" is verbal yak dung
nice rashomon quote
Recently bingeing the Sopranos, there is a Rashomon ref in Season One, by the comedian at the old folks home.
Thanks for your work. I watched that film of them fucking over the Sherpa's and was disgusted by their actions. They are busy staring in their Everest mystery fabrication, sorry I mean channel.
If your that serious why don’t we get some people to do an exp for a 2 month period - next May / June (or yr after)
No Sherpa duped - no ropes no rules that way we can’t get our asses kicked or death threats from the Sherpas
How we get permits for such an expedition on the north side currently I have no idea
Any ideas ???
I did in 2018. The problem is you need to go during a low snow year. A low snow year comes along about once every 10 years. Hence the importance of photos from people who were there during a low snow year.
Any comments on “conspiracies and lies” rebuttal by Jake ??
It’s clear that there are many ways to poke holes in the various assertions about what happened to Irvine’s body… but I find it likely that it was indeed unceremoniously removed; like so many other bodies, including Green Boots.
I respect your desire to be a no-nonsense guy, but can you admit you WANT the body to still be up there?
No. I would prefer the body to be confirmed to be removed. It would save me a lot of time and money to go back and try to deal with it properly. If it is still there, no doubt some less scrupulous people will do the same things to Irvine's body as the 1999 team did to Mallory's. No climber deserves that, and I would go and bury the body or bring it back if the family so desired.
But if it is confirmed to not be there, it just saved be a lot of money. I will admit that I would be happy for you to pay for someone to go and remove the body.
Mr. Tracy ~ how could a team of broke climbers possibly get their idea for an expedition, not only funded, but then covered in a book & "movie" about Mallory & Irvine ~ if they were completely honest w/ the sherpas (and public along w/ their benefactors) that there was no story & therefor, reason to be there? X sussy
Same way the over expedition that was there in 2019 did. Two expeditions searched that year. One deceived the Sherpas. One didn't. Not that hard to figure out when you stop defending charlatans.
@@michaeltracy2356 Mike, I hope you caught the air of sarcasm I was laying down in the above post. I really enjoy your investigative reporting on the issue of mountaineering, earning you another new sub.
This morning I threw my Everest books in the bin , I only hope one day in the future they find a nice down suit with maybe a Conrad or synott perished on that mountain and some guys rifle through his body & belongings it would be very fitting .
From the ghosts above to Conrad
Most if not all have acted nothing short of grave robbers /disrespectful to the Sherpa community in the pursuit of pretty much money fame and a few keepsakes , all the keeping of information , ect ect , just more stories for the dinner party’s & books
I’ve lost complete respect for the likes of these people now , buying those books makes me actually feel bad that I’ve somehow contributed to the madness, I’ll follow your channel with great interest for many years and will continue to do so but from a far in future, spending the best part of 20 plus years reading watching everything I could and will continue but as I say without monetary contribution
Here is a challenge for you. You make money from UA-cam by distorting what others say. So, pay me 50% of your month's earnings averaged over the last three months, plus 10% of that figure, paid in advance. You provide written questions, I will answer with detailed explanations. No editing allowed, no cutting off at inconvenient moments. You remain respectful. If you want to ask additional questions, during the interview, I reserve the right to answer or not but for the most part, I will, if they are respectful and are on topic.
You reference a deleted comment in the other thread. I was wondering it was in response to this question: There seems to be a question as to whether the Sherpas who were worried about being blacklisted by the Chinese were in fact blacklisted, possibly because they appeared in the credits of The Ghosts Above. Do you know whether the Sherpas involved ended up being blacklisted?
@jackson2010 The answer is further downThere is a long explanation to this, about the climbing sherpas. However, the core climbing sherpas knew in detail, all the others were told in a meeting. But what happened in that meeting? That is the untold story. There is still one comment of mine that has disappeared.
So they are still able to work in Tibet and are not blacklisted? They can summit in tibet again?
@@josephjackson2010 Correct - the climbing sherpas are not blacklisted. It is companies that are scrutinized more carefully.
Sounds good. I'll email you the details and the screen shot of my earnings. You will see a lot of my videos are not monetized because I choose to show reference content in them. Thus, this might not be the windfall you are expecting.
Hold one. So you're saying that the expedition that "found" Mallory's body was acting upon a tip from the Chinese? If that is the case, then that changes everything for me. That means that there is even less reason for the Chinese to lie about Irvin's body. Why care about Irvin but be ambivalent, or even downright helpful with Mallory. And if the Chinese told people where Mallory was going to be found, why would they be close-mouthed about Irvin....especially if the only thing that changes is the name of the British guy who was the first. They have no real incentive to be secretive or deceptive. It sounds more like all these anonymous sources were just feeding information like a death-row inmate trying to get his sentence commuted. Or having fun with someone who was desperate for 'secret' info. We used to do that when we were kids back in the mountains of WV and people asked for directions. Send them all over the place just for kicks, knowing that the likelihood we would ever see them again was zero.
Yes, I put the photo of the Himalayan Database where the altitude is given. This issue is fairly well known in this channel as I have covered it previously. Thus, the mention of it here is pretty brief. But I even emailed Hemmleb (the "historian" for the 1999 expedition) and he confirmed that they had the Chinese report prior to the expedition. The NOVA website also shows they were using the Chinese camp and Chinese report as the basis for the search. Mallory was found in a matter of a couple hours from high camp -- which is a good indication they knew where to "search."
@@michaeltracy2356 Especially since Conrad [claims he] went off his grid based on his spidey senses and ran right over to the remains.
You'd send people who were lost in the mountains, off in the wrong direction??
Yes, unfortunately, we 15 year olds were terrible people back then.@@alexandros8361
@@alexandros8361 Thank you. That's so f-cked up, even for a kid. Then he laughs about it. While speculating about someone ELSE's morals. Gross. I'm agnostic but I hope there's an afterlife specifically so Russell here can find out the specific outcomes he + his pals enacted on others for sh-ts + giggles. I hope he has to experience every bit of the chaos + trouble he caused for "fun" before they kick whatever passes for the Essence of his Being upstairs, downstairs, or into the larvae of a dung beetle.
A guy decides to partake in one of the most dangerous 'recreational' activities possible and dies.
Big deal!
If he's buried there, the Chinese stole him, or he's still laying where he fell, It literally doesn't make any difference to him.
The important lesson here is Don't do stupid things for no reason, and you just might avoid being a 3part YTvideo
An interesting perspective, but if it is no big deal, why do you spend your valuable time watching these videos and even more precious time posting?
@@michaeltracy2356 This video popped up first "Response part 3: stealing from the living." This title, along with the thumbnail, looked interesting, so I checked part 1 out first. As for posting the comments, simply because I wanted to. Sort of similar to how Irvine simply wanted to turn himself into an icicle
Cool. I guess trolls need love too.
@michaeltracy2356 chill out man, don't melt❄️.
@@rd9337 Nah, just driving up my points with the algorithm. People like you put videos like this over the top. Thanks for playing. Please keep it up. Got to get 5k views today!
God dammit; LEAVE HIM AT THE MOUNTAIN. His body was a LANDMARK for planning and lifesaving purposes and now this will be gone. Leave him alone there
1) I think you've got the wrong person
2) Bodies are not used a landmarks on Everest (they use fixed ropes)
@@c.vonsohn9566 I think they're referring to Green Boots, who was actually used as a landmark by other climbers. Personally I think it's sick to view anyone who perished as just another piece of the mountain, but they aren't "wrong" factually if they're referencing GB (may he find peace). It's well-known that many climbers identified where they were using his distinctive boots to help orient themselves (he passed while in a cave-ish semi-sheltered overhang). He was also considered by many to be a kind of cautionary tale, a reminder they're in the Death Zone & they need to force themselves onwards down the mountain if they want to survive.
Again: my personal beliefs oppose this, but it's nevertheless been part of the mountain's history + was for over a decade before his remains' "removal".
It`s maybe safer for Sherpas not to be told the full plan. Which is necessary for "plausible deniability". And serves them better. On the other hand, the interest of the chinese government in these matters is far exaggerated. They just don't care so much. And the moralists complaining for other people they are not ment to represent are a sickness of our society.
And you know this because of how many illegal climbing operations you have conducted in China?
@@michaeltracy2356 You are right. I don't know it.
Low quality video low quality person 😂😂😂
Thanks for all the comments. Really helping push the views up on this video series. Keep'em coming
@@michaeltracy2356 thanks for the videos, really helping Thom’s channel grow more than ever 😂🤡😂🤡
Hope he keeps going. Glad I can help him out. I know when Mark Synnott called me up prior to their expedition, I helped them out as well. Happy to help these guys. Maybe someday they will just stop taking and taking from others and think of something other than their own "fame." But until then, I'll continue to help them on your journey to discovery.
If you really wanted to grow your channel, you ,... er, I mean he, could show the drone photos of that area below the ice axe and show Synnott's photos of that area a well. Then your channel ... opps, I mean his channel would really grow.
Always so negative in regards to anyone else making content on this subject. Jealous perhaps?
Wasn't negative about the Emp Lemon video. Maybe it is just content that misrepresents things. Thanks for the commenting though. It greatly helps with the algorithm. Please reply so we can get into a lengthly back-and-forth and really push this video up in the charts. If you could, also click the "dislike" button -- nothing helps the way that does.
@@michaeltracy2356I do love your chat and demeanour. I wonder if your demeanour would be the same in a bar? I think not
What a childish comment/threat @@jurassic5912
@@davidrennie8197 It's the internet --- plausibly he is a 9yo 😭
Low quality video low quality person 😂😂😂
Hey Thom, how's it going?