Analysis of the Chinese 1960 Mount Everest Expedition
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- Опубліковано 11 лют 2024
- Review of the Chinese Mount Everest Expedition.
Chinese newspapers confirm that the cooking equipment was blown out of the Chinese high camp leaving the summit party with no way to melt water in their high camp. This, coupled with the numerous inconsistencies in the route description, the lack of oxygen, the lack of any summit photos, and alleged summit rocks that are a lighter color consistency will a section below the summit, mean there is no realistic possibility that Chinese reached the summit.
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Indian 1960 Everest account in : Himalayan Endeavor, Edited by B.G. Verghese.
www.amazon.com/Detectives-Eve...
www.amazon.com/Everest-Eighty...
Mark Horrell Blog: www.markhorrell.com/blog/2013...
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If you were given a $500,000 budget for Mallory and Irvine, what would you do?
I’d spend it on flying another drone up there during a low snow period, with a focus on the path near the Norton Couloir and zig zag route and releasing the high-def footage for all to see and examine.
"Thirsty work eh, Boys? Not to worry, there's a cafe at the top and we can always take the train down."
@@jackharle1251
Chairman Meow 😸
Chairman Mayo
We need to 🗣️ in 🧑💻 to evade the algorithms as to not annoy Alphabet’s 🈵 investors 😢
An article by Elizabeth Hawley, the now deceased Everest Historian who created the Himalayan Database. It explains how the Chinese actually climbed the Mountain in 1975 and what happened in-between :
Everest, More on Earlier Chinese Expeditions. When the Western mountaineering world reacted with scepticism to Chinese claims in 1960 that their brave climbers had reached the summit of Everest, the authorities in Beijing did not publicly take any notice of these doubts. In fact, they took plenty and decided to launch another assault in 1967 to prove that they were as capable as anyone of reaching the summit. In preparation for the 1967 conquest, earlier climbs in 1964 and 1966 were organized. The Tibetan Mountaineering Association, which is headed by a Han Chinese but has Tibetan climbers associated with it, has launched a ten-year campaign to put Tibetans on the summits of all the 8000-meter peaks. In the spring of 1993, two TMA officials and the leader of the 1993 climbs of Annapurna and Dhaulagiri, Samdrup, came to Kathmandu. They promised to send me details of the earlier Everest attempts. The spring of 1964 expedition of about 20 climbers was led by Xu Jin. Their task was to determine the route, carry up supplies of oxygen and demonstrate skills to the 1967 selectors. Six or seven of this team reached 8100 meters. The group that went in 1966 were some 60 soldiers with no climbing experience who were ordered to the mountain by the leaders of the Cultural Revolution. Twenty were to do the climbing. The leader was again Xu Jin. They reached 7790 meters and were not capable of going higher. The Cultural Revolution took a different line and the 1967 expedition was suspended. The next Chinese effort on Everest was in 1975 when nine climbers, including the Tibetan woman Phantog, reached the top. Samdrup, who got to the summit in 1975, presented me with the list of eight men who had died on Everest. I already knew the names of three who perished in a crevasse fall during the post-monsoon Sino-Japanese reconnaissance of 1979. They were Wang Hong Bao, Nima Tashi and Luo San. The others were Wang Ji, who died in 1960 of pulmonary edema at Advance Base after climbing to the North Col; Shou Zhi Qing, who in 1964 died of a cerebral hemorrhage on the North Col; Ma Gao Shu, who in 1966 reached 7790 meters but fell to his death on the descent; Wu Zhuong Yue, who had climbed Shisha Pangma in 1964 but suffered a fatal fall at 8100 meters, in 1975; and Shi Ming Ji who died of a cerebral hemorrhage in 1978 at only 5700 meters on a Sino-Iranian reconnaissance. [Miss Hawley’s report has been slightly shortened -Editor.]
publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/12199427500/Asia-Tibet-Everest-More-on-Earlier-Chinese-Expeditions
If Mallory were alive today and heard the details of the successful summit in 1960 he would call that
A Bloody Load
Always look forward to the no-nonsense explanation Michael Tracy provides.
Love the nitty gritty of Mr. Tracy, no stone or snow flake unobserved.. bloody top bloke👍👍
Super video, devastating I’m impressed with the Chinese climbers, to make the summit attempt without water is incredibly brave and determined. I’m sorry they never had the chance to tell their true story. Heroic.
It's amazing the Chinese made it as far as they did with the limited equipment they had. But, as they say, a summit only counts if you make it to the summit.
They were no doubt aware that the consequences for not trying were far worse than death.
It's insane to me that the world just accepts the claim of a group that has that much social credit to lose.
With zero evidence!
Thanks for another great video Michael. Have you seen pollards latest video claiming Irvine was found and his body removed ? His response to numerous questions are “interesting” to say the least. Your break down would be greatly appreciated.
He hates my questions over there 😂 I’m a noob in all this and apparently I don’t ask the correct ones.
Some of your finest work Michael. Rewriting history books with self delivered research and the courage to publish the works is timeless and will be the real history in generations to come 👌
Another brilliant job of detailed investigative reporting, following a long series of such reports by Mr. Tracy. A tour de force.
Isn't it a shame that the impressive achievement that they actually did has not been celebrated and instead an experts can easily pick the story apart. Other than the need to lie for a dictator they genuinely accomplished an impressive feat against all odds and that in itself deserved recognition and respect.
Yes, it is unfortunate that their lies and deception far overshadow the great work they did hammering those spikes into the Second Step. Once they release the "summit rocks", we can confirm exactly how high they got and celebrate their accomplishment of getting to exactly where they got to without all this debate of where that exactly is -- because we will know.
True words,Its total disrepect and insult to those climbers and what they were able to accomplish
similar to how Fritz Wiessner for the most part climbed K2 in 1939. (he got to the final 200m snow slope after 8hours of steep technical rock climbing with no modern equipment, no O2, and a sherpa that refused to tag the final summit, went back to camp intending to climb the next day and discovered all the high camps had been pulled and they'd been left for dead). I believe that the rock route bypassing the bottleneck has never been repeated.
Mountaineering is an artificial goal with an artificial set of rules. Denali is a higher mtn above it's base, and Chimborazo is the farthest from center of earth. Make up your own rules.
@@allanchong4772 the K2 attempt was incredible and goes to show how some people are just made differently. I think the Sherpa was being respectful of the night as a consequence of tradition, hence the reason to turn back. I think all in all that shows a good side to human nature and that respect as well as what they achieved is quite amazing.
If the thoughts of Chairman Mao can warm a whole person all night long, why wouldn't those be able to melt a little bit of snow every now and then?! Just saying...🤷♂
The bust really gives the game away. The megalomania that both causes and attends despotism is not limited to the banalities of governance. Men like Mao seek to be deified, and deification requires mythical feats. So while he may not have climbed Everest himself, the fantastical stories about the 1960 climbers are clearly meant to elevate him as the demi-god who inspired and empowered them. They may have been the vehicles, but the accomplishment really was his and that of the ideology he espoused. Saying they were first to get to the top via that route is not only worth two generations of state-sponsored propaganda, it is worth ongoing pressure on those who should know better what Mallory and Irvine did.
beware, we have politicians like that here in the US.
Thank you for the research! Once again masterclass material!
Once again excellent and compelling research!
The lack of water is telling. When I climbed Mt. Rainier (14,411 ft) the altitude and the exertion meant I needed to drink constantly. There's no way someone could manage at over twice that height.
Ahhhh the fix we’ve all been waiting for. Thanks Mr T! ✌🏻🤘🏻
I pity the fool that doesn't "like" this video.
@@michaeltracy2356ha! Question, at around 19:49 in the video there is a climber pictured with what look like key fobs on his coat. What are those?
Super excited to watch this tonight!
That was a master class breakdown.
Good timeline analysis. (particularly the crucial cooker loss) - the Chinese story was always fraught with holes, but since it was not the first summit attempt but merely the first attempt of the route, and the Chinese controlled that side of the mountain, it is no surprise that nobody ever really called bs on their story. The mountain had already been climbed by the British, so a route variant was well, "whatever" to the climbing community outside of China. Within China however and within the context of the Cold War it was very important to the State, so of course they made it as far as they were concerned. Close enough anyway. This is not uncommon, nor should it be surprising. It's also not terribly important either. We know Communist ideology is laden with propaganda and does not encourage questioning the official truth or independent thought. As far as them removing Irvine, I have not seen any proof of that besides hearsay yet. To tidy up for the Olympics would make no sense, there are no spectators or crowds lounging about Everest to ruin the experience, so anyone who even writes the phrase "they were tidying up for the Olympics" has to literally just not be terribly engaged but enjoys lazy parroting. The whole Everest Mystery channel is merely clickbait for TP trying to scratch out a living. This is what happens to non-professional stoner/surfer bro/ adventurer types who don't have savings and need a side hustle to survive at the same time in their lives when social media makes it possible. I prefer this channel as the motivation seems to clearly be only about discovering the truth, and the confirmation bias exhibited is very small in comparison to most theories. As far as the Chinese removing the body, that is possible because prior expeditions may have ended up with evidence that MI may (or did) make the summit and subsequently removed evidence once they realized their 1960 climb would eventually come under great scrutiny, although in this era of alternative facts I am not sure they would actually care, but perhaps, who knows. It's not like China is North Korea, it has some exposure so may care about reputation, but it doesn't affect their power or stronghold over their people. How all that would flow timeline and expedition wise I will leave for MT as I am not certain we have quite pieced that together yet. It's also entirely feasible Irvine is on the mountain and finding him has proven to be incredibly challenging.
Its fascinating how expert knowledge makes faking it harder and harder. The path to the Everest summit has been studied down to the last toe hold, so any BS will stand out. It wont be long before photometric scans will be made and every stone, relic and historic photo will be mapped. All of this will never take away from the challenge of Everest, or any other climb. Preparation alone, does not get you to base camp. Personally, I think anyone who makes it down alive, after making good decisions in the death zone, is amazing. Don't care if you peaked on not.
Brilliant. As always.
Thank you for this great video.
Glad you agree that Mallory and Irvine made it to the summit. Nothing was going to stop Mallory that time!
Not sure what boots they had on. But if they were the ones shown with the body in the discovery photo, these are NOT hobnailed boots. Instead these boots have steel angled ridges underneath, a primitive form of crampon. Those could have held them on the summit ridge. Their 'hobmailed boots' was the only objection that Messner had, to accepting their summiting.
Great work as always Mr. Tracy. Love your investigative work. I wonder why the 1960 Chinese group decided on the ridge route? Why would they not go around the 1st and 2nd steps like Mallory and Irvine? Is the couloir route much more difficult?
Excellent organized and clear cut account.
I can't recall who was first to come face to face with the second step and return with a photo of it... was it the Chinese?
Yes, the first photos of the Second Step were from the 1975 Chinese team. The British 1924 expedition did not photograph it at all even though Somervell spend over an hour seated directly underneath it. This is because no one on the 1924 ever discussed climbing the Second Step nor was it even called the "Second Step" until well after the expedition is over. It is an odd bit of history that the phrase "Second Step" was not used at all during Mallory's lifetime.
Thanks
No water, in the dark on an unknown route with a bust of a phat boy. My 5 year old granddaughter isn't that gullible, and many in the climbing community believe that they made it. Must be a lot of cash being paid out to maintain the red narrative. Great analysis Mr Tracy 🍻
Curiouser and curiouser
I don't hike, let alone mountaineer. I know nothing about it. I have no idea what you're talking about most of the time. But dang if I don't love your videos and watch every single one, they are so fascinating 😅
China getting absolutely embarrassed once again.
That trouble maker thom pollard was making vids on irvine being thrown off the mountain again tracy
He never explains why the Chinese would do this if, as the claims, there is no remote chance they made it. And if the Chinese did throw him off the mountain, they would probably want to follow up by paying some UA-camr to make videos saying they didn't make it.
@@michaeltracy2356exactly
He explained that they were tidying up that side of the mountain pre-olympics
So a body that no one could find when they were looking for on numerous occasions needed to be removed to "tidy" up the mountain, but the numerous other bodies directly in view --- such as "green boots" were left in place?
And he has another video in which he is equally as certain they buried the body in place. That is the Synnott article he covered earlier. Nor does Thom say they removed the body for the Olympics in his video -- nor does his guest Jamie McGuinness. He says the opposite in that the Chinese stated it was well prior to that -- it was at 12:35 in the video. You need to fix your comment or it will be removed for containing misinformation.
May be they never passed beyond the 2nd step. That's why they brought the ladder in 1975. There is a remote possibility that the photographs they produced were from Irvine's camera which they found in 1960 only, What say?
For all the jokes about the power of Maoist thought, I find it interesting to look at what Mao himself thought of his famed Long March. The Red Army’s retreat was truly an advance. Their defeat had been a victory. Maybe in saying the power of Maoist thought enabled those three men to conquer Everest, they were engaging in some of the post-truth admissions this channel is so effective at elucidating.
Yo stop collaborate and listen, Michael's back with a brand new edition. 🤪🐒
Are there accounts of the training and high altitude acclimation used by the Chinese team? was it comparable to M and I, or modern methods?
The 1924 team had altitude chambers and performed extensive physical tests on the mountain -- blowing in a tube, etc. All of the mountain tests are recorded in the expedition report and the pre-expedition medical reports have been stated anecdotaly by some of the climbers -- that is, they described their experience in the altitude chamber.
The Chinese have not reported that any of this was done and they credit their "success" to the studying the Thoughts of Chairman Mao.
The Bust of Mao was buried in the rocks...a meglomaniac has team climb Everest with a Bust of himself...they bury it...nope im not buying it.
If it was there...then every expedition after 1960 would HAVE to include a photo shoot of the team standing there with that Bust and acknowledge the first successful summit by the Chinese..if you dont,there will be no permits of access given by the Chinese.
There is no Bust up there buried or otherwise
The Big Boss was very inspirational! 😂
Very solid, confirms what I suspected ages ago but never really looked into. One has to admit, just getting to, and past, the Second Step would be a remarkable achievement under the circumstances, and the pitons would seem to be actual evidence they did succeed in that bit.
If you had actual summit rocks as pictured, why would you not display them in that case for all to see? Why are they locked away? Obviously because the rocks are not from the summit.
10:35 - Very interesting view of the zigzag route side-on? Lower left?
No, that is the North Ridge which is blocking a view of the zig-zag.
They never cease to amaze me, they are a funny bunch :)
Hey Michael, upon reading Unsworth he claims that Lawrence Wager ascertained the veracity of the Chinese 8700 m picture by having compared it with Hillary's 1953 and one he took himself in 1933 at the First Step, all 3 enlarged to the same scale. Through pinpointing of prominent features set side by side, he claimed that the Chinese picture had to have been take at a point a little bit above the Second Step ( ≈ 8700 m). I'm having real trouble finding any references to this anywhere else. Do you know anything about this information?
Thanks for the interesting video!
This is covered in : www.himalayanclub.org/hj/23/16/the-conquest-of-mount-everest-by-the-chinese-mountaineering-team/. The photo is analyzed and they come to the conclusion I stated in the video -- It was probably taken from around the altitude stated, 8700m, but was not taken at the time stated. Exactly why the Chinese would do that is covered in the video.
Inded I understood your reasoning and your conclusion on the time issue. I was just looking for further references on the analysis of these pictures and you've given me a great article about it. Thank you!@@michaeltracy2356
Water, water, every where,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, every where,
Nor any drop to drink.
"Qu" is pronounced "chü" (with the French or German-umlaut 'u'). The spelling 'q' is a tongue-high-in-back 'ch', while the spelling 'ch' is a tongue-low-in-front 'ch'. The British announcer at 7:56 is closer, although he's saying what would be spelled "Chu", not "Qu". Also, "Shih" is pronounced somewhat like the American pronunciation of "sure", "shur" but with the tip of the tongue curled back,. There are too many videos online -- by practically everyone -- whose creators do elaborate, time-consuming research to produce excellent, highly commendable and informative work, like this video and Mr Tracy's other videos ... but don't take merely a few minutes to simply ask someone how to pronounce Chinese. My apologies, Mr Tracy -- your great video just happened to be the one that broke the camel's back for me on this way too common issue. ;^)
I did some googling and it seems popular opinion is that they did not make the summit... How do they come to this conclusion? Often I see stuff about the 2nd step but as you've showed us (by the stuff you show, not your opinion) its unlikely he went a route crossing its path. Everything seems to point to them either summiting, or get extremely close.
Hello, do you have any interest in doing some analysis on Tomo Cesen’s solo climb on Lhotse south face and Jannu north face? Both would be unique achievements but they were also highly controversial.
Besides, the 1989 South Korean Everest expedition who claimed to climb the west ridge is also a bit interesting
Excellent analysis, given all the details it's a truly remarkable effort by the Chinese to get so far. Would this make them the first to climb the second step? which is worthy achievement in itself. Shame when it becomes lost in propaganda and feels disingenuous. Also appears that the time and effort taken to get above the second step took any chance of a summit away. Why do you think they focused on the 2nd step and not an alternative couloir route like M & I? Seems that this focus, eventually turned the 2nd step into the modern route and diverted everyone's attention from the route M & I most likely took.
Ah yes. Staying all night out above the Second Step and casually joining the rest on their way down the next morning. What rubbish.
People are really scared to attacking mixed climbing.
But Hans Kammerlander did the whole ascent from ABC to the top in 17 hours with only a cup of tea in his backpack. So maybe it was also somehow possible in 1960, at least from a muuuch higher camp?
Your comment contains misinformation and leaves out important information. Kammerlander made several unsuccessful attempts on Everest -- 1992 (which was not really an attempt, more reconnaissance), and 1989. When he did reach the summit in 1996, it was on a ski climb and he skied down. He followed the Sherpas to a camp at 7700 meters where he left with 1 liter of tea. He skied down except for rock sections. So, he had support and cooking equipment in his camps and he took 1 liter of tea (not "only a cup of tea"). It states he was given tea by the Sherpas..."Left summit 10:30 am 24th and arrived ABC about 4:30 pm with few rests of 10-30 minutes each including tea at Sherpas tent at 7700m an at Col camp."
Your comment makes it seem like he went nonstop form ABC. He did not. Your comment makes it seem like he had only "a cup of tea." He did not. Kammerlander was climbing significantly faster than the Chinese claim in 1960 and was descending with skis at a rate many many times faster than the Chinese. Kamerlanders roundtrip time to North Col was 23 hours 30 minutes and he had tea support from the Sherpas -- "tea" is typically used in place of water on Everest by the Sherpas. He also started with 1 liter from 7700 meters -- well above ABC like you claim. So, not even a close comparison.
@@michaeltracy2356 thanks for the correction. I didn't want to spread false information, this was just a thought. I really like your videos 😊
Did he have fuel to melt snow?
@@michaeltracy2356all alpine climbers have fuel to melt snow for water - it's called body heat. Poor Michael, how do you think armed forces train their special alpine operatives to survive without water-making equipment? Any waterproof flexible container be it plastic or animal skin can be filled with say 300 ml of snow and placed inside clothing next to warm skin to create water. LIfe giving water, Michael, hmm? And this can be done many, many times a day. Respect for your videos and research chum, but you do also create a lot of misinformation.
@@smolski666 You are lucky Mr Tracy didn't call you a charlatan. 😊
If the Chinese did not make it to the summit, who then, was then was the first successful summit via North Ridge made by?…the Chinese in 1975?
From the North - Americans 1963. I cover it in the video on that climb.
This dude just spits facts
19:37 Yikes, what a garbage pit. World's highest dump et cetera. When I see current day videos I am overwhelmed with it. All the bits flapping around in the wind. Why can't the magic Chinese just fix it?! ? !
Those are prayer flags put there on purpose. The don't take them down. They put them up.
The fact that the Chinese brought pitons and hammers on ther summit attempt can be narrowed to two different approaches: either it was forethought or sheer ignorance. My bet is on the first.
A lot more plausible that the leadership included those items on the summit team kit, given that they knew about the second step and its challenges, which BTW cannot be surmounted by a "shoulder stand".
Funny how so many “experts” talk about Mallory not having a stove to melt water (when no proof exists) and ignore the fact that Chinese climbers had no water for their final ascent.
I cover the cooker issue with Mallory in : ua-cam.com/video/f7DOVdiAwIg/v-deo.html
Well in the Chinese climbers defense disavowing the Party line probably isn't really good for you or your families long term health. I, personally, am willing to understand why they said what they did without attributing malice to the individual climbers.
Sure, but why do so many Americans vouch for their "summit"?
@@michaeltracy2356
There is only 1 reason $
Babe wake up! New Everest lore just dropped!
the 1 meter rock was probably farther down -- much lower
Knowing that there is a one meter rock somewhere on Everest does not remotely support that you climbed the mountain.
So, they're basically all liars?
Same as in the Horizon Postal Scandal or any number of other "official story" cases.
The Chinese? Yes!
*Game of Thrones vibes*
Единственное о чем я думаю, что Меллори и Ирвин тоже могли достигнуть ложной вершины! Во всяком случае искали там хоть какие-то следы их пребывания! Ведь такое могло вполне произойти., понятно что они погибли уже при спуске...усталые....измождённые до предела...
Ice screws in 1960?
They were more just longer steel spikes which look more like modern ice screws than modern pitons. Their intended purpose was to secure protection into ice, but they were being used to make footholds in rock.
Treating the truth carelessly is never a good idea. Maybe the Chinese thought they'd get away with lieing... but not so.
Hi Michael, I love your videos! How do we think? M&I climbed the 2nd step? If moderen climbers must use a ladder I picons How did they do that with out either? And another thing lol has anyone else climbed at nite with no moon?
Mallory would not have attempted the Second Step as I detail in the numerous other videos on the subject.
Have you ever watched any of Sir Michael Tracy’s other videos?
@@michaeltracy2356 hi and thank you I have forgot the way they went
They had to get to the top. The essence of socialism is the demonstration of excellence due to political purity.
I think you underestimate thoughts of Chairman Mao 🤪
It is possible that they did not climb the second step at all and just added that to the propaganda , because the westerners deemed it impossible.
They would have read every book about the British expeditions and after 1933 all of them supported a couloir route
So it could be possible they continued Norton , Wager, WynHarris , Smythes routes somehow /someway to get close to the third step.
Just a thought with my tinfoil hat on !🤔
-100,000 Social Credit Points to Michael Tracy
False Summit=South Summit?
No, that is on the other side of the mountain. False summit = Citadel.
@@michaeltracy2356 Thanks!
Great video. Not a climber. You stress the importance of no water as evidence that they did not reach the summit and then go on to highlighting them lying about the Mao bust. You don’t seem to consider that they also lied about the water to underscore the greatness of their (claimed) achievement. You seem happy to accept the oral evidence of the Chinese climbers when it suits your argument. Also, apparently, only the Chinese lie, because you seem to accept at face value the Indian climber’s description of the bad weather although they did have a motive to embellish the conditions given the failure of their expedition.
As I state in the video, it is more than just the Chinese statement that they did not have water in high camp. There are additional statements they make that corroborate the fact that there was no water. These include the lack of any support climbers in high camp. And while I do have to rely on their statements that none of the support climbers remained in high camp, this is true of them even going to the Mountain in the first place.
I believe the Indian account because it was promptly reported in a neutral fashion that provided descriptions of the weather, their oxygen equipment, and the problems they encountered. None of the Indian explanations invoke Lord Shiva or Chairman Mao to explain why things happened. Thus, I am more inclined to believe statements that do not rely on the supernatural.
Losing a tent to the wind is also what you would expect on a "rookie" climb -- which is what the Chinese were on. Thus a statement, "On our first big expedition, we screwed up and lost all our cooking equipment" is believable. On the other hand. "The first time the three of us ever went on any expedition, we climbed to the summit of Mount Everest at night without any water" is not a believable statement. It is not normal for completely inexperienced climbers to be able to pioneer a new route on the world's highest mountain, much less at night without water and limited oxygen. It has not ever happened in any other instance, and therefore likely didn't happen in 1960 either.
Hornbein also lost tents on his successful 1963 climb. If they would’ve lost their stoves they wouldn’t have continued. Impossible without water.