The Rings of Power: Let's Be Fair
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
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Art and Animation by Just Some Guy
Original trailer concept: FMA Brotherhood & Black Summoner
Music: "Enkon Hakuchuumu" by Sakagami Souichi - Copyright (C) 2015 Trial & Error/Sakagami Souichi All rights reserved.
Trial & Error: www.tandess.com/en/music/ - Розваги
It isn't so much about that they get things wrong, which might be forgiven, it's the maliciousness and intent with which they DO things wrong, which is unforgivable for Tolkien fans.
Just look at how they changed Galadriel into the ultimate Girlboss, rubbed it into the fan's faces and gloat about it. They've simply lost all credit and even the benefit of the doubt by their hateful, spiteful and malicious behaviour, only to top even that off by saying that they are IMPROVING upon Tolkien's creation or that "they are doing what Tolkien wanted to do but didn't dare to do".
YES!! Exactly that!! It's not incompetence, it's villany.
@@k.d.8924 hubris more like
Do you actually think the writers of the show "changed" Galadriel to make you mad... or do you think it's more likely that they were trying to make a good show, and weird right wing grifters told you to get angry about "girlbosses" so they could make money?
@@PlatinumAltaria nice bait eunuch
@@hieuneo7085 I can't believe they CHANGED the canonically most powerful elf in history to be "powerful"! WOKE! WOMEN SCARE MEEEE!
The show is intentionally a slap in the face to Tolkein fans... Why would you worry about "being fair"? Thats like being attacked by a mugger and not fighting back because he's poor and he needs your hard earned money... He's a dirt bag and he's entitled to nothing of yours... Screw the show runners. They deserve fair when they deliver fair.
You are not being attacked.
@@PlatinumAltaria Ah, welcome the appologist everyone.
The purposeful destruction and active malevolence against the fans and the existence of these properties so that others can claim them as their own, or destruction so people have no choice but to accept awful stories in order to hear 'the message'... is an attack, not on any individual but on the culture as a whole.
@@zephodb Nobody is attacking you. There is no "message". Your culture is not being destroyed.
@@PlatinumAltaria Tolkien's is.
Have you seen AppleTV+'s "Foundation"? Have you read the original?
The original explicitly wrote against heroes saving the day, psychic powers being unworkable for humanity, the importance of study, work and intelligence... and the TV show sings the praises of psychic heroes and spits on smart people. While telling the viewers who accept their trash how smart they are.
Tolkien never wrote about "elf workers taking your jobs", but this trash decided to bring their culture in and slap a Tolkien coat of paint on it, diseasing the works and name of Tolkien.
Culture's only part of what's being destroyed. The idea of an intelligent critical society has already been undermined and lost, apologist.
I was fair to the last Jedi, never again
Even if they said nothing you’d still have the same outcome where it’s dead to you.
I was fair to Ahsoka and that turned out to be a huge mistake.
You poor fellow...I hope your week is chill and cool unlike "that".
@@ats882 same with me, except it was Kenobi...
The Last Jedi is a good Star Wars film. You people are why Rise of Skywalker was made.
To be fair, this show is a twatwaffle production.
I second that emotion.
I would like to third that emotion.
I fourth that.
The assumption is that they are playing fair. They are not.
That’s why this video pissed me off a bit, tbh. They’ve gotten SO much wrong, does it matter? Sort of, and yet anyway, I ain’t watching. Because they don’t play fair! 😅 I have trust issues and I don’t need no Amazon fan fiction triggering my issues, you feel me? 😂
You have to be fair... no, i don't. They have shit on my childhood for years now.
I understand wanting to be fair, but why? Its not like the show runners have been fair to us, the Tolkien fans? When was the last time they said, "yeah you might have a point about that." Frankly, I suspect, given the body of work so far, that the man misspoke and like a stopped clock, just happened to be right this one time.
"It is a gift. A gift to the foes of Mordor. Why not use this ring?"
If we learn nothing from the story then Tolkien might as well have not put pen to paper to begin with.
I've come to accept the term, just not in the way they'd likely want me to, example:
"Fairly even in my disdain..."
Why? Because the moment you start misinterpreting and lying, you very quickly lose any credibility you may have had in the eyes of both your opponents and everyone else (even honest actors on your side). And "but they started it" is not a valid defense. It just makes you sound like a child. Integrity is not something you can just turn on and off: you either have it or you don't.
@@hpesoj00 True enough, I suppose, how has that been working out for you? Take from it what you will, including nothing at all, but personally, I like it when my opponent subscribes to Queensbury Rules in a street fight, although the ones that most sound like children aren't the ones that say "but they started it", but are the ones that yell "but he cheated" after the fight is over.
@@JohnSmith-cn4cw the problem is that this isn't what would be described as a street fight, its a discussion, where the winner doesn't have to stoop to his opponents becaise his points are valid enough on their own. Point out how inaccurate and subpar the show is, and leave it at that. The opponent's defenses will crumble and he will resort to ad hominem and buzzwords because he has nothing left.
But life not fair
Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be.
@@Dragonlover553 U haven't been scarred by life yet
@@carlosjohnson9407 I assure you I have my scars. I watched this shit too. Idealistic doesn’t mean naive.
@@Dragonlover553 you mad they have a different opinion than your
@@Queen-3gu Hardly. Perhaps slightly offended that someone who has never meet me would make declarations about the life I’ve lead, perhaps unimpressed with my counterpoints opinions in and of myself, but hardly angry.
"You can dislike the show, but you still got to be fair."
I do? You sure about that?
those that don't like the show are "Racist Trump supporter white privilege CIS male"
You can be a weirdo about it, but then girls won't wanna talk to you.
To be fair, the balance of being fair about this show still means hating it so much it spontaneously combusts and burns to the ground.
Which is kinda ironic considering JSG practically tore season 1 a new asshole everytime a new episode out. Now with season 2 on the way, he decides now to do the "let's be fair" card out of his sleeve
@@TheDarkAngel969 He DOES have a point. It HAS been ripped into EXTREMELY heavily. And don't get me wrong, it totally deserves it. What he's saying is a mature response - if it DOES do anything good, acknowledge it.
If it helps the mental model, consider this: anyone acknowledging the good it does has to be listened to more closely when they do tear it apart.
Amazon FIRED the Tolkien specialists
yep any that pointed out when stuff was wrong got the boot.
@@bradmiles1984 Making an actual story out of 2nd age lore requires changing some of the SACRED TEXTS so it actually fits a narrative structure. Tolkien was just laying out a basic framework.
@@PlatinumAltaria only a rough draft, so to speak? 😅
@@PlatinumAltaria You don't know how this works, do you? You don't CHANGE SACRED TEXTS, you need to write stories that FIT WITHIN THE STRUCTURE OF "THE SACRED TEXTS" and I was right the first time, it's very suspicious that you've got an account back to 2011 whatever with zero content. You making such incredibly unaware comments ignorant of situations is very disturbing.
@@troffle That's a nice opinion but it's wrong.
And why again are we supposed be fair.
I was fair for the first few episodes of Rings of Power. I am never getting those hours back.
Im gonna watch RoP season 2 just to see how bad it gets lol
Literally proof of the saying "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while".
It is absolutely and thoroughly irrelevant if an evil character doesn't see himself as evil. We all know that these people would not be applying this sort of thinking to the people they have been demonizing for the past decade.
0:55 "Oh, he just massacred a country, turned the remaining population to slavery, then their country into a volcanic wasteland... He is not evil, he is just trying to do better!"
Anything 'modern' has been absolute shit of late. From Rings of Power to SW to Doctor Who. We need to start really Gatekeeping the fucking tourists at this point.
We needed to start it 20 years ago.
I say this as someone who bought into the "gatekeeping is wrong" idea until a few years ago when I was about 50. I was wrong.
@@troffle gatekeeping in my mind is never wrong.
@@vuton7670 well yeah I know that NOW.
It's the fine line of accepting people who want the material for its sake and not to steal and co-opt and change for their own.
Before then, I'd never conceived of anyone doing anything that crappy.
Mate, if you're the one who doesn't like anything and constantly complains, it seems like you're the one who isn't the real fan. Seems like y'all just come around to complain that a random fanbase is "woke" because nerdrotic told you to.
@@PlatinumAltaria go away hobby squatter. You are literally the oricsh hoardes at the gates of Minas Tirith.
Response by the producers, director, etc, to this oral essay: "NEEEEEEEEEEEEERD! Heheheh, that'll shut him up. Okay, now let's wait and see how many people rush to watch the show now that we've been insulting and condescending towards a fan. That ALWAYS works, right?"
Respect is a two-way street.
You want fairness? We expect fairness first.
Intentionally destroying a property and attacking the consumers pulls fairness off the table. No if's, no but's, none of it.
No argument you propose will change this simple rule, even if you personally disagree with it.
The shots were fired, and the audience has every right to respond with shots of their own.
You want fair judgement? Treat the audience fairly first. No excuses.
The fact people keep watching knowing something is going to be garbage is just keeping the garbage going longer….
They are contractually obligated to five seasons. It's not going anywhere anytime soon.
@@ForeverKnight71 besides it’s not gonna even make any profit which is not a good sign
@@The-keeper-of-time-and-space. I'm not sure what their profit/loss was for the first season. I know lots of ppl were unhappy with it but going by YT - seems ppl were still watching.
@@ForeverKnight71 Dude, it's well documented that they committed over a billion dollars to this pile... You think the first season brought in the equivalent of one tenth of that? Be honest... What are the odds... Zero. 37% of people who started it, finished it. That is way below average... It's a snooze fest. The only thing good about it, is it cures insomnia...
@@kwade5158 Dude, I'm not following it that closely. I have no idea - which is literally what I said.
Good grief.
They ruined my wise sorceress and turned her into an arrogant girl boss who forgot she could craft, do magic, and reach into minds
Why are we, the true fans, always are being asked to "be fair"? Our detractors, the showrunners, the fake fans, the shilly shills, and all the others are never fair, nor were they to begin with. We were "fair" when they came for Star Trek, when they came for Star Wars, when they came for comics, when they came for table top gaming, when they came for video games. Fuck being fair.
We'll be fair because we're better than them, That's all there is to it.
If he was one of the Elves who didn't make the Great Journey from Cuivienen then he'd be Avari "Refuser", if he went along with the migratory Eldar then turned around or stopped he'd be Nandor "those who went back", but if we have to use the prefix of "mori" then he'd be Moriquendi "Elf of the Darkness" which unlike in the modern Fantasy context denoting evil elves like the Drow in D&D it just means an Elf who didn't see the light of the Trees of Valinor which would be all the Elves alive and born on Middle-Earth at this time in history with the exception of Galadriel and Celebrimbor. But if I were to put money on it I'd say they changed it because someone thought Moriquendi doesn't sound as scary and ominous as Moriondor.
There were Noldor in Gwaith-i-Mírdain and undoubtedly with Gil-galad in Lindon, as well, we just don't know their names.
I wonder if someone was trying to cram together "Morion" and "Mordor" to get the idea of "sons of the dark (land)" across? it's the kind of kludge I can see the writers coming up with, as well as the etymology of Quenya 'nore' meaning "people" becoming blended with 'dor' meaning "dry land" over time; they seem (or someone on the team seems) to have read the background lore, so I can see them coming up with something they want to echo "Morion is a name of Morgoth, so Moriondor is not alone sons of darkness, it's the people of the Dark One Morgoth/people of Morgoth's land" idea. It was Morgoth who made the original Orcs, not Sauron. They don't have the rights to a lot of stuff so they can only hint at it, and they end up stuffing in too much like this.
Glad you're able to hold the ultra nerd line so we don't have too.
Remember old boy whizzing on the set when Amazon's Tokien Superfans walked through the ring of fire?
That was fair.
It's not about some show-runner or "writer" (read activist) getting a few words of a dialect wrong. It's about the intersectional garbage-thought behind EVERY aspect of the show from it's very conception.
JSG giving fantasy language lesson is always soemthing im on board for
I'd be down for a whole series of JSG vids teaching Sindarin.
There comes a point were being fair is pointless. If Picasso made an amazing art piece out of permanently moist cow manure It may be fair to say its looks impressive, but you still wouldn't buy it. These creators have made zero genuine effort to provide a product consumers will enjoy. So, they don't deserve a cookie every time they accidently do something correct. Trust me, it wasn't intentional to do the correct thing in this shows case.
They don't deserve fair, because they're not willing to listen to any criticism...
Why? They call me racist and sexist for not liking season 1, so why do they deserve my benefit of the doubt?
They called us racist and sexist before the show even came out. But yeah, they don't deserve any fairness.
They don't care about whether their main character resembles the original. I doubt they care about they care about the finer points of language.
I'm being fair by not entertaining the idea of watching it
I refuse any leeway. They chose the warpath. They spat in our faces and shat upon Tolkien's grave and attempted to smear Shippey's name.
They 'DESERVE' every bit of karmic justice that they receive.
1:30
This isn't being fair. This is desperately seeking something good within a pile of shit.
Doesn't even matter if you find a diamond at the bottom, you are still up to your neck in shit.
I was thinking of exactly the same metaphor :D
Amazon did hire Tolkien loremasters to try to keep things in order.
They then fired them before the first season came out as best as I recall.
They got nobody holding lore intact at all, so none of this is surprising.
Uruk is originally from ancient Elvish (it became urco in Quenya and orch in Sindarin). It was adopted by the Orcs before it made into the Black Speech - The Orcs liked the name because it meant horror.
The show fundamentally effed up the languages by:
- having characters speak Sindarin to horses for obvious reasons (it's in the books and in PJ's movies).
- having characters speak Quenya to each other for no reason, while still calling each other by their Sindarin names in the same effing dialogue (first ep.).
- having discount Gandalf and the moth wraiths chant Quenya spells or whatever for absolutely no effing reason.
All the while forgetting Sindarin is for daily speech and Quenya is the Elven-Latin.
The Elvish lines are MOSTLY correct though. It has to be the show runners' fault to assign them to the wrong characters.
But it's not that bad if the show coined Moriondo for "Son of the Dark", just to differentiate it from Morion "the Dark One".
"-iondo" as a suffix is still present rather late in Tolkien's notes (Parma Eldalamberon 17), along with -ion, -yon. They seem to coexist as variants.
It's highly unlikely whoever came up with those Elvish lines thought -dor as a whole was a plural mark.
There's the possibility that they took Morion "Son of the Dark" straight from Qenyaqetsa (the earliest Q. dictionary).
We are told by Tolkien himself that the stem is Moriond-, so the plural would in fact include Moriond-. But it would be more likely *Moriondi rather than **Moriondor.
cf. Noldolion > Noldoliondi (pl)
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Quenya words may have a different stem for "oblique" forms, kind of like Latin:
Silmaril > Silmarillion (gen. pl.), the stem being Silmarill-
Elessar > Elessarno (gen. sg.), the stem being Elessarn-
pilin "arrow" > pilindi (nom. pl.), the stem being pilind-
cf. Latin. pes "foot" > pedes "feet", the stem being ped-
The reason is that historically the nom. sg. dropped a few sounds while the oblique forms didn't because of the suffices added to them.
nah let it burn
I did enjoy the video - can you nerd out more about the languages of Middle Earth? Because I'd like to know more.
If he'd do a video series on building and pronouncing Sindarin and Quenya words, I'd be absolutely down to binge those videos.
@@andrewmcguinness1845 Only problem is he couldn't monetise it, because the Tolkien estate run by the horrendous disrespectful moneygrubber owning it now maintains control over things like the character sets and language.
"Well, Sindarin schmindarin who cares"
- Someone from the TROP writers room
Linguistics lesson absorbed. That was fun! Thanks.
That was an actually informative skimming of how to make a word in Quenya and Sindarin. I just finished the Silmarillion, and in the back before the maps and genealogies there's an exceptionally brief explanation of elvish words, and it's both fascinating and entrancingly opaque.
it does enough wrong that you should feel no obligation to be fair to what it does right
Fair, but not forgiving. Fair, but not forgetting. Fair... But not unequivocal....
Nice one, JSG.
And the Orthanc abominations weren't "uruk", but "uruk-hai", neh?
Even if I was being fair, a turd is still a turd.
Do you think these writers and creatives actually did all this work in writing languages? Yeah i didnt think so.
I get what you're saying, but I'm done being fair. Progressive ideologues have destroyed every franchise I care about and gloated while doing it. They infiltrate our fandoms and dismantle them from within, then say it wasn't meant for me and I shouldn't watch it. So I wont. I'm already apathetic.
It’s not just this show; Hollywood thinks we’re idiots. That we'll swallow any crap they shovel-lore changes, character retcons-at its base, it’s just pure disrespect.
I hated this show with a passion. It took me multiple attempts to endure an episode. This modern idea that a master work created by a legendary mind can be altered or improved is just foolish. The egos involved must be massive. They had this show handed to them on a silver platter, and they threw out the silver platter and decided people would demand Tupperware. I didn't watch the first season. I endured it.
Why be fair with a show where the actors/directors/writers hate you for not liking the show?
No I don't. It's trash.
I still have to be fair.
No, I don't. I actually don't have to be "anything" other than a fan that enjoys the fandom. Not a bastardization of it.
The real question is: why a primordial corrupted elf has a Sindarin name?
Bro just casually rocks his Quenya and Sindarin fucking mad respect
Amazon: "Who needs the source material when we can make our own fan fiction!?"
No dude, they’re called Uruk not Uruk Hai. There is a difference.
Uruk-hai means Orc-folk (uruk=orc, hai=folk) (PE 17, Words, Phrases and Passages in LotR):
"B Urukhai Uruk-hai 'Orc-folk'"
and:
"The debased form of the B. S. which survived in the Third Age only in the Dark Tower is seen in a few names (as Uruk-hai 'Orc-folk') and the fragment of vituperation uttered by one of Grishnakh's companions, emissaries from Sauron."
Uruks is an Anglicization of Uruk-hai (UT, Index):
"Uruks Anglicized form of Uruk-hai of the Black Speech; a race of Orcs of great size and strength."
Late in the Third Age the term Uruk-hai refers to the great soldier-orcs that came from both Mordor and Isengard (LotR, App. F):
"Orcs and the Black Speech. Orc is the form of the name that other races had for this foul people as it was in the language of Rohan. In Sindarin it was orch. Related, no doubt, was the word uruk of the Black Speech, though this was applied as a rule only to the great soldier-orcs that at this time issued from Mordor and Isengard. The lesser kinds were called, especially by the Uruk-hai, snaga ‘slave’."
Damn dude, you need to teach me some Lord of the Rings. You know your stuff!
Please keep nerding out. I am indeed having fun now 😅
They've already shat on my beautifully evil cannibalistic orcs by making them into misunderstood Warcraft noble savage orcs. So why must we give credence to anything they do?
How about no?
You know, I am just one guy, too. Over 50. I grew up in an age, without all this fancy CGI-stuff (Yes, Extra-Portion of Pathos here). But back then, I imagined, what movies could be made, when the restrains of models and extras could be left behind? If you just need one Computer to generate huge battles?
When the opportunity arises, to get worlds like Middle-Earth in a credible way to the big and small screen?
Now, all of this is technically possible. But look what we have got!
I don’t have to be fair cause I’m not watching the show
Thank you very much for the interesting translations. Much more helpful - and damn, it's impressive he went that far in creating his own actual language.
4 minutes of jsg being a tolkien nerd
While it's fair to point those things out and call them out on it... I hardly expected differently.
Making it up is basically all they do when not stealing from the stuff they can't use directly.
Not useless, keep nerding out lad.
Fool me twice
BTW -yon, -ion, -IONDO can be found in p170 and p190 of PE17 (Tolkien's notes on Words, Phrases, and Passages in tLotR).
Uruk is the word orc in black speech. Before Sauron created a separate large variety of orcs, all orcs could call themselves Uruk, and it wasn't until they made large orcs that they began to divide into Uruk (true orcs) and Snaga (slaves). The show takes place many thousands of years before the separate Uruks appear.
No. I don't have to be fair. I don't know where you got that from but, you are wrong.
If I'm going to be fair, I'll say you thought about this ten times longer and with vastly more respect than they did.
And for the record, I found the discussion on the middle earth languages VERY fun.
Nerd out, baby! Let that freak flag fly proudly! ❤ Interesting to know that they were actually CORRECT about something for once! 😂 lol, at this point, I never would’ve seen that coming!
The actor is still wrong. Sauron doesn't see himself as the villain because he see himself as setting the world right, after the age of Morgoth. He just wants it done his way. Just like his former master, Melkor. That's his driving motivation, forcing everyone to just do things his way.
In fact, even the Orcs don't see themselves as the bad guys, they are fighting "rebels". But we can't really expect those "fans" to be aware of such subtleties when rediscovering America is so much cooler, I guess...
To be fair, not even abput Tolkien, it just looks like community theater.
You can nerd out all you want that is one of the reasons why i watch you
Being fair is important - always. Fair-minded criticism of bad workmanship is far more effective, in the long run, than undiscriminating and partly unfair criticism of work which, at least in part, is not entirely bad. And a habit of being fair-minded is both attractive, and morally good.
I respect that level of nerdiness, love it
That was a beautiful linguistic nerd-out 😍 I'd totally watch videos of you just dissecting the Elven languages
NEEEERRRRRRDDDDDDD!
As always, truly appreciate your thoughts.
They weren't fair to Tolkien,. enough said
So they got some thing kind of correct……wow……….it will fall into Shadow.
Life isn't fair though, so boo-hoo for the big corporation that was GLEEFUL about intentionally destroying somebody's else's work.
great video. loved it.
thank you for teaching us a little bit more about the languages, Tolkien put so much effort into to create.
(please insert "the mor you know"-logo anywhere you like).
Dude that is awesome that you know all of that. Thank you I love nerd moments
That has nothing to do with fairness, that is about being correct or not
your LoTR vids are gold 👍keep up the great work
No, they don’t deserve it
you smartassed me 5 minutes of my life Bro ^_^
I get your point but all of this rides on the assumption that their use of Uruk was purposeful or not. Calling it as it is, you or us dont know that answer yet. To make a point off of something that may as well be a coin toss seems to jump the gun a bit to me
"Be wholesome to wholesome people and toxic to toxic people."
why must i be fair if others are not how is that fair i say be the last guy with 1 eye for in the realm of the blind he with sight is king
I love your way to do movie critique
Much respect for your knowledge of the lore. I think I speak for all nerds out there when I say you are an asset to our people.
I'm going to be frank I've only read the Silmarillion (plan on reading it again after the Hobbit and LOTR as a study) once and I still barely remember the languages. I appreciated you breaking down the geeking out part of the video it was educational.
No dude. Like, its just so far gone, who cares if they managed to somehow get a few things right here and there? When you have to endure insufferable girlboss who is awesome at everything to get to the 'fair stuff '? Not to mention characters that act completely out of character , just being dumb as dogshit in their decision making processes etc etc. The hubris of the show runners on display in every scene, but hey - even a broken clock is 'right' twice a day
So, this far they have got some names spelled right. Not the characters those names belong to though. That's all.
Great video
They’ll use Klingon.
Why not. After the first episode of "Star Trek Discovery" they ain't using it anymore.