i bought 144 of these battery packs. I'm using them set up in a 13s48p configuration with active capacitor bms's. They seem perfect for off grid 13k system.. couldn't be happier!... no drift on voltage.. no sag.. all the way to 3.6v.. doesn't help that each batteries load is .3c.. lolz.. cheers!
David, rarely would the servers actually shutdown, only in the very smallest and largest computer rooms do you actually design for shutdown. In most server rooms or data centers the UPS is there to allow enough 'ride through' time for a generator to spin up. They also perform the critical function of power smoothing or cleaning, they handle things like small brownouts, spikes, etc which might otherwise harm the computers or lead to data processing glitches.
Theses battery packs are simply awesome! I ordered 12 of them, built a homemade solar generator with a 2500 watts reliable electric inverter, and i just finished a 0.24C discharge rate capacity test, and i got awesome results! Out of the inverter, i was able to get 3715wh out of the 3600wh advertised, which means that i got approximately 4370wh out of the battery if we consider a 85% efficiency for the inverter! I almost can’t believe it!
What BMS did you use? I'm about to try and put together 15 of them and considering 3 sets of 5 with individual BMS's, but I haven't made up my mind yet.
Awesome. I did get a little skeeved out when you were cutting and drilling metal near the battery. Bunch of metal shavings near that battery can make for some interesting results if Murphy shows up.
I found it to be much better to solder the Anderson connectors, just heat with a torch, while holding the tip with a vise, or vise grips. Then fill about halfway with solder, (pre tin the wires,) then with the solder melted in the connector shove the wires in, then heat with torch again until solder melts, to assure there will not be a cold solder joint, this way the Anderson connector is reusable!!!
I know this is an old video, but the riv-nuts are critical for both hole size and grip depth. If the hole is too large, they won't grab, and if you over crush them, they either strip out the threads or break the hardened mandrel like yours did. Glad it still worked though 👍
UPS batteries like that are used in very large storage systems in datacenters to write out "in flight" cache data in the event of a emergency power shutdown. They are generally designed to last less than 1 minute, powering hundreds of spinning disks for just long enough to write everything that was in progress before the power goes out.
best way to make countersunk holes - grab a much bigger drill bit, and by hand (don't put it in a drill), twist the cutting edge in the already-drilled hole. usually even for steel all it takes is a few twists and it looks super clean.
Awesome battery pack. My leaf blower is an Echo 770 gas powered unit. For some reason it won't start until I cuss it out in Spanish. Then its a one pull deal.
Hi have been taking these apart and all the ones i have checked are fitted with ur18650rx with 2000mah cells.Also did complete discharge of 48v pack and noticed label stated 640ah but tested and was 760 !
FWIW, high discharge rate UPS systems are usually designed to "hold the load" while generator(s) come online. "HR" batteries means less space is consumed. (think how big a battery system would have to be to hold 1+MW at 1-2C rates. There are data centers around here with 50MW grid connections.)
David perhaps using a dc/dc (golf cart type aux plug) they are 48vdc- to 24vdc-12vdc which would extend your capability as a complete stand alone power source. especially for the RC ENTHUSIAST, EMERGENCY LIGHTS, CHARGE BOOST, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE ROOM UNDER YOUR BMS WELL THAT,S MY COMMENT VERY MUCH ENJOY YOUR VIDEO'S KEEP THEM COMING . I LIKE BATTERY HOOKUP THOSE GUYS AND GIRLS ARE GREAT PEOPLE.
David to recess your screw heads there is a drill bit called a countersink. It actually removes material evenly and at the correct angle to recess most any screw or bolt head.
Well, Surprise, Surprise, Surprise! It's been awhile since your last video and I've been wondering what you've been doing. Miss watching my favorite guy on UA-cam. I'll have to send you a photo of the battery bank rack I overbuilt for my LTO SCIB BATTERIES. Good video, David!
Wonderful video, thanks so much. If i wanted to wire 4 of these in series to power an ebike, would i be able to do it connecting to 1 bms and using 1 charging source, or would i have to break them all down and just rebuild?
That "Loom Tape " is nothing more than a fancy way of selling Friction Tape. In fact, it has been around for a long time. When used where it will be exposed to sunlight, it should be wrapped in Vinyl Electrical Tape to protect it from the UV rays.
yes it should work fine but you dont need such high amperage discharge for that generally . Doubt you could fit the step down converter in the box but maybe plus it may create unacceptable heat if it has much load.
Hi David I am David again thanks for instructions .I got two of those two weeks ago ,my plan is to use for my ebike with your instructions I can tray to attach the BMS but I don't have any electronic equipment to balance,charge and discharge the battery please let me know what I am doing to need and if these is good for ebike I only have good tester . my plan is to use the two module in parallel to increase the power. Let me know if I can use one BMS for two module in parallel or I have to double everything. Also wat charger is good to charge the two in parallel, if is posible
I suggest one BMS per battery. But this could be a smaller one. For example maybe a small 50 amp BMS on each battery instead of what I use was one large BMS. After the BMS you can parallel the two wires together. Then you'll have one central positive and one central negative. It's at that point that you would connect your charger and your motor. Chargers are available on Amazon or eBay in any voltage that you want. You will be looking for a charger that charges at 54.6 volts.
Always fun to see another repurposed battery, I'm using a pile of those 36V 220Wh (2P10S) scooter batteries to run my house when utility power goes blah. Now adding another 7KWh of the 460Wh 4P10S scooter batts. (5 days total in the last three weeks,,) Using a recycled UPS for lights/comms/electric blanket and CPAP. Today a 36V 3000W inverter showed up so I can run refer/microwave and such. Anyway, I might have an easy solution to your inaccurate metering device. It reads low on current. The way they calibrate high currents shunts is by making them a bit low in value, then removing a bit of the shunt at a time until it reads right. If it's using the typical big wire looking "U" shaped shunts on the board, (Sometimes two or three side by side, look like big staples.), you can take a small file (putting a cloth under it to catch the shavings or do it upside down!) and remove a tiny bit from one of the shunts. (Start a small notch) Take off a smidge, then test again. Do this 'til you get dead on. Pretty easy if you have a good reference unit. Hope that is useful. (I'm an ancient electronic tech that's been messing with DC and AC power stuff for decades. Tiny to 125KW UPSes, tiny to 1.5MW generators, solar, inverters and gobs of batteries..:) Keep on hacking those batteries! Stu
Dave, nice vid. For some reason, even though I haven't ordered from BH, I find myself liking them as they seem to upfront about what they are selling, and pricing is usually a good or great deal.
They have a high C rate and that is about the only similarity between LTO and these. These cells would be more similar to what you find in cordless tool batteries. But LTO is a different chemistry altogether to this lithium ion.
Do you have any specs or do you know more about the board? I heard you say that basically it's part of a bigger system but I feel like it could serve some purpose. I just received said battery and I am getting ready to solder the BMS. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
@@stygianindustries8295 Good question. If you listen very carefully you will hear Dave say the boards still balance. A 13s balance board has a market value of $80 for low end DIY trash. I intended to use these modules exactly as is.
Have you used the sink wrap that would fit this battery? I have four of them for my little electric car. If just a clue to was it might be called if you know?
A good way to get through that black bolt sealant is to heat up a screw driver tip and stick it into the screw head. Thanks for sharing. I would stay away from 185650s. Too dangerous
HI David, Great Vids! Could I tie a few server rack battery's together for 48V golf cart to get enough Ah? I need a golf cart battery. I want to make, should I use these or something else?
Short answer, YES, you can. However, from experience, I suggest adding a small BMS on EACH battery module. Battery Hookup sells 30A BMS's available in 13s which will work: batteryhookup.com/products/li-ion-lifepo4-3s-20s-30a-bms-with-balance?variant=42283333943458 (my affiliate code is DAVIDPOZ which gets you a discount) If you try this approach, I might see if 6 batteries can fit, which would be 180A discharge, and 1.8kWh capacity. For a total of $300, it's a decent way to go. Personally, I think a simpler approach would be: 2x of these: batteryhookup.com/products/24v-24ah-621-6wh-spim08hp-with-steel-enclosure-fans Plus one of these: batteryhookup.com/products/7s-21s-24v-75v-300a-lithium-ion-bms That's a high-amp BMS, and wire the two 24V modules in series for 48V.
Good evening David. Love videos definitely very informative. I know we all appreciate them. I have a question regarding these battery packs from battery hook up. I know you state that they are high amperage high discharge however, they have them listed as a good means of being able to store solar energy. That being said, could you use more than one of these packs together to create a large 48 V battery system for solar? Essentially you could keep adding on battery packs of 48 V just making your hour increase each time. Hopefully my question makes sense and I appreciate your input.
Battery hookup is selling these at a pretty low cost, about $65/kWh. The low cost is why they are fine for solar storage. But, they are originally designed for fast discharge in a UPS to allow the computers a soft shut-down. If you decide to use them in a solar application, please use one BMS per pack. Battery Hookup sells 15A, and 30A BMS's that can pair with this. You can parallel as many as you want AFTER the BMS.
@@DavidPozEnergy for getting back with us so quickly David, I appreciate it. I’m still learning as quickly as possible and read everything I can get my hands on, but it never hurts to ask lol. I understand the different concepts between amp hours and kilowatt hours, etc.. that being said what kind of capacity or run time would someone be looking at with roughly one of these packs? With that info I can basically just add the numbers from there to determine how many I would need. Thanks again, and Merry Christmas to you and the family!
I think each pack is 307Wh, or 0.3kWh. That's not a lot when talking about running a house off grid. I think these packs are suited well for smaller one-off projects. I made mine power a leaf-blower, for example. Or making a portable power station with maybe 4 or 6 in a case. But, I don't like them for whole-house solar systems. Usually when calculating a whole house needs, the conversation starts at 20kWh and goes up from there. That's 65 of these small packs, 65 times you need to wire a BMS, and fuses etc. It's a ton of work. in contrast, look at this: batteryhookup.com/products/8s4p-24v-lifepo4-battery-25-6v-280ah-7-17kwh Each module is 24V. If you buy 4 modules you can make 2x 48V batteries (28kWh). This means 2 BMS's, and then wire them in parallel. 2 BMSs instead of 65 BMSs is a lot less work. This would be the BMS: batteryhookup.com/products/7s-21s-24v-75v-300a-lithium-ion-bms?variant=43085312884898
Hey David does the BMS come with a USB plug on the end of it or is that something you added basically how are you hooking the BMS to the Bluetooth transmitter and what is that device that is sitting under your phone that is plugged in is that a extended battery
These cells don't work out to a perfect 12V replacement. If you arrange them 4s (4 cells in series) then you have a 14.8V battery, that can be charged up to 16.8V. This might be fine for some things, but if you want something closer to 12V, then use LiFePO4 chemistry.
Hay David I was wondering if you thank these would work as a replacement for SLA batteries for a cordless lawnmower, I have a small yard so I use a cordless lawnmower but the batteries are in need of replacement and they are going to cast in upwards of $80.00 apiece for 2 and am thanking this might be an option.
In your other video, I can't tell which is cell 1,2,3 because they are in that wiring loom. That is what I did not understand. How did you know which wire went to which cell?
Usually the first wire is the main negative of the whole pack and then they count up from that. But you need to verify that with a wiring diagram from the manufacturer
I know these are high amp packs but would it be useable for a 5 amp draw with occasional short peaks of 30amp? Trying to make a ham radio off grid power pack.
Sure. If your ham radio works with 48v. But if your ham radio works with 12v, then I'd stick with 12v stuff. Battery Hookup has lots of batteries. If you want a 12v battery, then look for LiFePO4, arranged as a 4s configuration. Here is a pre-made 12v battery: batteryhookup.com/products/fully-tested-valence-u-charge-rt-series-u1-12rt-lifepo4-battery-12v-40ah-512wh?variant=39512047550626 You can still get a discount with code DAVIDPOZ
Those cells are about 2amp. 48*4-20%=307.2wh. If the used cells were 2.6a or 2.2 (more common) then they pulled fine, you will find they do two things, self discharge or get hot when charging and discharging as the older they get the hotter they are. Low current pulls would be okay, but for such a small battery power, I couldn't see them being much use unless you're making a small 300w portable power unit. In that case the metal case is a bit much. Did you buy a cheap riv gun? We've two brands of tools here, if it breaks they'll replace it. Some stuff I tried to break it wouldn't, this was what you would expect to break. However something I wouldn't I did. But sorted withing 30 minutes. Forged not cast s better... Btw, pulling the cells to 0 (20%) will kill the cycles left in them.
Super helpful video- thanks! Am new to the battery world and am curious if you think a couple of these would work well in parallel for a 48v electric dirt motorcycle I've build? My current battery pack (three sets of 13s3p with 30a BMS shuts off under any attempts at heavy acceleration. Am assuming these packs would be able to handle quick acceleration demands, but wouldn't have last long in terms of riding time?
Yes, these should work well for you. I've seen some examples of people using 1 or 2 on an E-bike, but never a dirt bike before. I used a 100 amp BMS in this build.
@@impeydan am interested in your question as I had assumed I would need a separate BMS for each pack, then wire them in series after the BMS? My motor can pull 200a at the top of its range, so a single 100a BMS will shut off power early. A 200a BMS could work, but not sure how to wire it all. Am new to all this so not sure if I am missing something. I guess I have some time to research a bit while waiting for Battery Hookup to be able to restock their BMS.
@@calebshepherd553 I am new too. I just want to have more capacity. that's why 4. I will be only running at 100 amps max. I have 1 100amp bms just don't want to harm it if I can't run in parallel.
You said these wouldn't be good for a powerwall. Pardon if this is a dumb question, but I am just getting started with this. If a Tesla Powerwall is essentially two Tesla Model S batteries at roughly 5 kW then if I put 10 of these together configured for 48v and roughly 10kw, how well would that do for Solar Storage overnight assuming the correct panels, power optimizers. MPPT, etc... etc... Please help me understand if I shouldn't take advantage of this great price to make my own powerwall.
The difficulty is in wiring up the BMS's for all those packs. I like these packs when you need lots of Amps, but for short periods of time. Yard tools, portable power stations, golf carts, go carts, electric bikes, etc. But if the goal is capacity, then there are better options out there. To get to the numbers, if you buy 35 packs that's $927.5. Then you will need to buy 35 BMS's @ $15 each (Daly 15A 13s) That's another $525, or $1,452 for 10.5kWh, $138.28/kWh. Plus a lot of time. Alternately, you could buy 5 of these: batteryhookup.com/products/samsung-ev-lithium-ion-12s-44-4v-47ah-2-07kwh-module plus 5 of these BMS's: batteryhookup.com/collections/accessories/products/12v-lifepo4-smart-bms-w-low-temp-cutoff?variant=36287975391394 for a grand total of $1,650 for 10.35kWh, $159/kWh. Now you only have 5 things to wire up instead of 35. Yes, it's $200 more, but is 7 times less work, and is a better cell chemistry for long term storage. Of course, it's up to you, but I'd rather have the second option between the two. Good luck, and please use coupon code DAVIDPOZ at checkout.
@@DavidPozEnergy what does this mean? If I buy 7 of these as the ad says. - Imagine buying 7 modules for over 14kWh powerwall and using one module to add 2 cells to each 12s module. Making 6x 14s 48v modules. How would I do that?
what is a smallish 48v inverter that I can use with this to power a leaf blower like you did in your other video? is the 3000w one in your other video the smallest you'd recommend. That one cost $300 (ebay) to $400 (amazon)
Hi David love your work mate got a question for you. I have a 16x 1000ah lifepo4 bank (Winston) purchased second hand, at around 10 years old, one cell DOA, dead cell replaced with new cell and all cells sitting in parallel and being charged off and on at 3.224v / 0.5a for 6 + months. paralleled using small 30awg solid copper. The bank charged at different cells along the way. at first the new cell would always read slightly higher and the 2 cells next to it and also variation among groups of cells. > cut a long story short all cells now sitting at 3.224v. I have 1 month before the bank goes into solar set-up. Question: leave the bank sitting in parallel or disconnect and check for changes in individual cells, what would you do? Cheers to your channel you and your fams, love it!
If you disconnect the cells and let them sit individually, then that will allow you to check for any self discharging cells. If you come back in a month and you have find one or two that are lower than the rest you know you have a drain on the system
Good morning David first and foremost I have watched just about every one of your videos and I have to say you are very intuitive person that being said I figured you have been around the block a few times I'm at the moment installing a full solar system on my house in Arizona I scored a good deal on some ABB pvi 5000 grid tie inverters now I am going to install some off grid inverters with mppt I have done a ton of research and I have narrowed it down to two models one is the MPP VIP 5048mg that you talked about any previous video with Ben at his house about 2 years ago it has an 80 amp charging. The other one is a new to the market Growatt 48V 5000W 240V Off Grid Inverter 450V 48V 100A MPPT Split Phase Capable Either way I have to use a Step Down Transformer I know the MPP has been on the market for a while and is a little cheaper what's your thoughts any will help thank you
Probably if you need 48V. You can parallel as many as you need. But, I was just checking out someone else build on a motorcycle, and he is using 72V, so he bought two of these and is wiring them in series: batteryhookup.com/products/36v-48ah-1776wh-spim08hp-36v-power-module he still got the discount with code DAVIDPOZ
Just a safety suggestion: You might want to move the battery pack to another table away from where your drilling and grinding metal to prevent metal from getting in the battery.
You can use them for low-power draw applications. But these cells were engineered to deliver high amps, at a cost of low capacity. If you have a low-amp application then you can achieve the same capacity in a smaller package.
Hey Dave this is me Allan here going to be setting up my house on a DIY solar system been running a 8000 watt generator and seems to be powering the house but if I add an AC system to my house later down the road just wondering what size inverter I should get and there's several different brands out there seems like what box would you recommend me getting what system should I get 10000w 12000w thank you
There are a lot of good inverters and batteries out there. In the next 3 months I'm planning more inverter testing. As of right now, I'd suggest two of the Phocos 5k. They put out 120v each, and two can be paralleled to do split phase 120/240. Or 4 if you want a super -sized system. LOL. But 2 inverters (10kw total) should be plenty for most off grid people. Here is an affiliate link to it. If you use the affiliate link a small kickback will help the channel. But it's a link to Alt-E if you don't want to use the link. lddy.no/s5eo
@@DavidPozEnergy thank you so much had one more question I know it takes for 12 volt batteries to make 48 volts but what would be a good number of batteries or kilowatts to run this system
@@DavidPozEnergy I know it takes four batteries to make 48 volts but how many battery should I be getting to run those inverters to start off for those inverters for 10,000 Watts thank you so much for all your help
Broke down one of these packs. The cells are testing very strange. So far 60% have been 1100-1300 mah, the other 40% are 1900-2000 mah. If I see the same result for the second pack, I'm going to break them all down and reassemble with just good cells.
I was told they discovered they weren't allowed to sell them assembled, which is why they ended up disassembling. I bought 2 when the case and battery was still offered together. Oh well..
Hello, does anyone knows a similar Shop for that Kind of batterys in Europe? I love what battery hookup Provides, but I think the shipping Costs will Explode for europe
Hey David, I really appreciate your videos. I found you through battery hookup. I was considering purchasing 12 of these in order to convert a 48v electric zero turn lawnmower over to lithium. Trying to run 12 in parallel how would you handle the BMS issue? Would each module need a separate BMS?Would Should I look at different batteries?
Are you swapping lead acid -> lithium? I'm trying to make my own DIY zero turn and thinking the same thing with these. Other option was an EG4. Did you ever go through with this?
These units are already 48v each. so you would only need one bms per pack. I was thinking of just getting 2 of them for my e-bike. 1 battery for when i leave the house and when/if that one dies then i hook up the second one to get home.
i bought 144 of these battery packs. I'm using them set up in a 13s48p configuration with active capacitor bms's. They seem perfect for off grid 13k system.. couldn't be happier!... no drift on voltage.. no sag.. all the way to 3.6v.. doesn't help that each batteries load is .3c.. lolz.. cheers!
David, rarely would the servers actually shutdown, only in the very smallest and largest computer rooms do you actually design for shutdown. In most server rooms or data centers the UPS is there to allow enough 'ride through' time for a generator to spin up. They also perform the critical function of power smoothing or cleaning, they handle things like small brownouts, spikes, etc which might otherwise harm the computers or lead to data processing glitches.
Theses battery packs are simply awesome! I ordered 12 of them, built a homemade solar generator with a 2500 watts reliable electric inverter, and i just finished a 0.24C discharge rate capacity test, and i got awesome results! Out of the inverter, i was able to get 3715wh out of the 3600wh advertised, which means that i got approximately 4370wh out of the battery if we consider a 85% efficiency for the inverter! I almost can’t believe it!
What BMS did you use?
I'm about to try and put together 15 of them and considering 3 sets of 5 with individual BMS's, but I haven't made up my mind yet.
It works great on electric bikes. I ordered 6
Just got six of these delivered today, along with the cases. Thank you for doing all the hard work for me. :)
Enjoy!
Awesome. I did get a little skeeved out when you were cutting and drilling metal near the battery. Bunch of metal shavings near that battery can make for some interesting results if Murphy shows up.
I found it to be much better to solder the Anderson connectors, just heat with a torch, while holding the tip with a vise, or vise grips. Then fill about halfway with solder, (pre tin the wires,) then with the solder melted in the connector shove the wires in, then heat with torch again until solder melts, to assure there will not be a cold solder joint, this way the Anderson connector is reusable!!!
I know this is an old video, but the riv-nuts are critical for both hole size and grip depth. If the hole is too large, they won't grab, and if you over crush them, they either strip out the threads or break the hardened mandrel like yours did.
Glad it still worked though 👍
May I suggest neutral cure silicone for securing the temp sensor. Hot glue might fail exactly at the wrong moment.
Watched it all the way through, It was specific and simply explained thank you
Nice David. Everything fit great and looks good.
UPS batteries like that are used in very large storage systems in datacenters to write out "in flight" cache data in the event of a emergency power shutdown. They are generally designed to last less than 1 minute, powering hundreds of spinning disks for just long enough to write everything that was in progress before the power goes out.
best way to make countersunk holes - grab a much bigger drill bit, and by hand (don't put it in a drill), twist the cutting edge in the already-drilled hole. usually even for steel all it takes is a few twists and it looks super clean.
I laughed out loud when I heard the ol' "F*** Me". Common-place where I work and I instantly said it myself watching your video hahaha
David YES you can calibrate it.... well in fact you can sand a bit the shunt resistor and you will increase the amperage read. it work.
Great test loved it! its kinda like the headway batteries.
Great video! It looks like they have cell-level fusing on the negative of each 18650 cell. Is that what the S-shaped nickel is?
1:20 I heard it as: "That concludes this block of instruction." Gave me a good laugh.
Enjoyed the video. You always inspire me to make what you just did.
Awesome battery pack. My leaf blower is an Echo 770 gas powered unit. For some reason it won't start until I cuss it out in Spanish. Then its a one pull deal.
Great video as always. Just a tip...You can just use a large drill bit to countersink the hole.
saw your video on Battery Hookup, it was nice to add your 5% on there and will try this one next
Hi have been taking these apart and all the ones i have checked are fitted with ur18650rx with 2000mah cells.Also did complete discharge of 48v pack and noticed label stated 640ah but tested and was 760 !
Nice!
I think Riv nuts are also known as Hank bushes. Nice vídeo as always professor
Thanks David. Appreciate all the detail. Just starting to plan first build for small 18650 battery.
another enjoyable video of a high quality build
man, we really need [something like] Battery Hookup in Europe.
yes, by God U do! & then some!!
@@Jibs-HappyDesigns-990 Well i have a lot of these if interested,...hope you don't mind David
FWIW, high discharge rate UPS systems are usually designed to "hold the load" while generator(s) come online. "HR" batteries means less space is consumed. (think how big a battery system would have to be to hold 1+MW at 1-2C rates. There are data centers around here with 50MW grid connections.)
beautifull pack design
heya those batteries are also good for back up for your computer if you get a power outish and your computer is 24/7 working like mine
David perhaps using a dc/dc (golf cart type aux plug) they are 48vdc- to 24vdc-12vdc which would extend your capability as a complete stand alone power source. especially for the RC ENTHUSIAST, EMERGENCY LIGHTS, CHARGE BOOST, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE ROOM UNDER YOUR BMS WELL THAT,S MY COMMENT VERY MUCH ENJOY YOUR VIDEO'S KEEP THEM COMING . I LIKE BATTERY HOOKUP THOSE GUYS AND GIRLS ARE GREAT PEOPLE.
David to recess your screw heads there is a drill bit called a countersink. It actually removes material evenly and at the correct angle to recess most any screw or bolt head.
At 10:10 in the video it looks like he has a countersink bit on the bench !
Any other source for the metal box now?
Well, Surprise, Surprise, Surprise! It's been awhile since your last video and I've been wondering what you've been doing. Miss watching my favorite guy on UA-cam. I'll have to send you a photo of the battery bank rack I overbuilt for my LTO SCIB BATTERIES. Good video, David!
Great review. I assume those are A123 type 18650 cells? Would be nice to peek under the covers. Good video.
Super helpful video David!
What are the options from days of power
Wonderful video, thanks so much. If i wanted to wire 4 of these in series to power an ebike, would i be able to do it connecting to 1 bms and using 1 charging source, or would i have to break them all down and just rebuild?
Good Ole fashioned riv nut tool breakage lol. Anyway to fix that tool? Riv nutz are great for many things!!!
Yes, I can order a new part. I think it's called a mandrel. $8.
Get yourself an automatic center punch. You’ll love it!
That "Loom Tape " is nothing more than a fancy way of selling Friction Tape. In fact, it has been around for a long time. When used where it will be exposed to sunlight, it should be wrapped in Vinyl Electrical Tape to protect it from the UV rays.
What if I used it for 12 volts with a drop down voltage unit to power some 12 volt led lights would that be ok ?
yes it should work fine but you dont need such high amperage discharge for that generally . Doubt you could fit the step down converter in the box but maybe plus it may create unacceptable heat if it has much load.
@@teekay1785 the most draw will be around 5 Amps
Hi David I am David again thanks for instructions .I got two of those two weeks ago ,my plan is to use for my ebike with your instructions I can tray to attach the BMS but I don't have any electronic equipment to balance,charge and discharge the battery please let me know what I am doing to need and if these is good for ebike I only have good tester . my plan is to use the two module in parallel to increase the power. Let me know if I can use one BMS for two module in parallel or I have to double everything. Also wat charger is good to charge the two in parallel, if is posible
I suggest one BMS per battery. But this could be a smaller one. For example maybe a small 50 amp BMS on each battery instead of what I use was one large BMS. After the BMS you can parallel the two wires together. Then you'll have one central positive and one central negative. It's at that point that you would connect your charger and your motor. Chargers are available on Amazon or eBay in any voltage that you want. You will be looking for a charger that charges at 54.6 volts.
awesome upload but how do you charge it and how fast can it be charged?
You've got cool stuff Sir I love it 😃👍
FYI these have 52 ~1600mah ~25amp cells
Always fun to see another repurposed battery, I'm using a pile of those 36V 220Wh (2P10S) scooter batteries to run my house when utility power goes blah. Now adding another 7KWh of the 460Wh 4P10S scooter batts. (5 days total in the last three weeks,,) Using a recycled UPS for lights/comms/electric blanket and CPAP. Today a 36V 3000W inverter showed up so I can run refer/microwave and such. Anyway, I might have an easy solution to your inaccurate metering device. It reads low on current. The way they calibrate high currents shunts is by making them a bit low in value, then removing a bit of the shunt at a time until it reads right. If it's using the typical big wire looking "U" shaped shunts on the board, (Sometimes two or three side by side, look like big staples.), you can take a small file (putting a cloth under it to catch the shavings or do it upside down!) and remove a tiny bit from one of the shunts. (Start a small notch)
Take off a smidge, then test again. Do this 'til you get dead on. Pretty easy if you have a good reference unit. Hope that is useful. (I'm an ancient electronic tech that's been messing with DC and AC power stuff for decades. Tiny to 125KW UPSes, tiny to 1.5MW generators, solar, inverters and gobs of batteries..:) Keep on hacking those batteries! Stu
Dave, nice vid. For some reason, even though I haven't ordered from BH, I find myself liking them as they seem to upfront about what they are selling, and pricing is usually a good or great deal.
Are those cells like the lithium titanium cells that has a high current fast discharge ?
They have a high C rate and that is about the only similarity between LTO and these. These cells would be more similar to what you find in cordless tool batteries. But LTO is a different chemistry altogether to this lithium ion.
Do you have any specs or do you know more about the board? I heard you say that basically it's part of a bigger system but I feel like it could serve some purpose. I just received said battery and I am getting ready to solder the BMS. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Warning for headphone users. The inverter beep near the end is LOUD!
How hard would it be to harvest the cells? They still are selling them.
They are sold out of bums any alternative bums you can recommend?
I've used several Daly brand BMS's. daly.aliexpress.com/store/4165007?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.62332114v24H7B
The pack you were carrying made you look like ghost busters
What charger specs would you need to charge two of these in series?
Beautiful job! Just seems like a lot of trouble for 300 Wh
You know how many rivet nuts I did? Lol can’t believe you broke that!!
great video as usual!
what ya gonna do with the board you took off?
@@stygianindustries8295 Good question. If you listen very carefully you will hear Dave say the boards still balance. A 13s balance board has a market value of $80 for low end DIY trash. I intended to use these modules exactly as is.
How do you think they would hold up in a 48v solar battery bank?
Have you used the sink wrap that would fit this battery? I have four of them for my little electric car. If just a clue to was it might be called if you know?
A good way to get through that black bolt sealant is to heat up a screw driver tip and stick it into the screw head. Thanks for sharing. I would stay away from 185650s. Too dangerous
Thanks for the great tip I'm definitely going to try that.
@@DavidPozEnergy hope all is well over there
@@DavidPozEnergy we just had a new baby. Delivered her at home in the bathtub.
Congratulations.
@@DavidPozEnergy thanks. I'm also shipping lithium now too. Let me know
Way to go David, nice conversion along with some more safety tips in the comment section!!! LOL.
15:14 What will they read if they are out of order I guess I what I am getting at.
U will get either a repeated reading or a reduction in reading
What chemistry are these and what's the life cycle rating?
Can you salvage the cells from this pack easily? I want to make 7S
HI David, Great Vids! Could I tie a few server rack battery's together for 48V golf cart to get enough Ah? I need a golf cart battery. I want to make, should I use these or something else?
Short answer, YES, you can. However, from experience, I suggest adding a small BMS on EACH battery module. Battery Hookup sells 30A BMS's available in 13s which will work: batteryhookup.com/products/li-ion-lifepo4-3s-20s-30a-bms-with-balance?variant=42283333943458 (my affiliate code is DAVIDPOZ which gets you a discount) If you try this approach, I might see if 6 batteries can fit, which would be 180A discharge, and 1.8kWh capacity. For a total of $300, it's a decent way to go.
Personally, I think a simpler approach would be:
2x of these: batteryhookup.com/products/24v-24ah-621-6wh-spim08hp-with-steel-enclosure-fans
Plus one of these: batteryhookup.com/products/7s-21s-24v-75v-300a-lithium-ion-bms
That's a high-amp BMS, and wire the two 24V modules in series for 48V.
Thanks David they sold out of 2X 24v. great videos. Smashed and subscribed. I will look again for similar 2x24v will use your code. Thanks
What voltage charger do you use for this?
Good evening David. Love videos definitely very informative. I know we all appreciate them. I have a question regarding these battery packs from battery hook up. I know you state that they are high amperage high discharge however, they have them listed as a good means of being able to store solar energy. That being said, could you use more than one of these packs together to create a large 48 V battery system for solar? Essentially you could keep adding on battery packs of 48 V just making your hour increase each time. Hopefully my question makes sense and I appreciate your input.
Battery hookup is selling these at a pretty low cost, about $65/kWh. The low cost is why they are fine for solar storage. But, they are originally designed for fast discharge in a UPS to allow the computers a soft shut-down.
If you decide to use them in a solar application, please use one BMS per pack. Battery Hookup sells 15A, and 30A BMS's that can pair with this. You can parallel as many as you want AFTER the BMS.
@@DavidPozEnergy for getting back with us so quickly David, I appreciate it.
I’m still learning as quickly as possible and read everything I can get my hands on, but it never hurts to ask lol. I understand the different concepts between amp hours and kilowatt hours, etc.. that being said what kind of capacity or run time would someone be looking at with roughly one of these packs? With that info I can basically just add the numbers from there to determine how many I would need.
Thanks again, and Merry Christmas to you and the family!
I think each pack is 307Wh, or 0.3kWh. That's not a lot when talking about running a house off grid. I think these packs are suited well for smaller one-off projects. I made mine power a leaf-blower, for example. Or making a portable power station with maybe 4 or 6 in a case. But, I don't like them for whole-house solar systems. Usually when calculating a whole house needs, the conversation starts at 20kWh and goes up from there. That's 65 of these small packs, 65 times you need to wire a BMS, and fuses etc. It's a ton of work.
in contrast, look at this: batteryhookup.com/products/8s4p-24v-lifepo4-battery-25-6v-280ah-7-17kwh
Each module is 24V. If you buy 4 modules you can make 2x 48V batteries (28kWh). This means 2 BMS's, and then wire them in parallel. 2 BMSs instead of 65 BMSs is a lot less work. This would be the BMS: batteryhookup.com/products/7s-21s-24v-75v-300a-lithium-ion-bms?variant=43085312884898
BTW, no matter what you decide, it would help the channel if you could use coupon code DAVIDPOZ at checkout.
@@DavidPozEnergy yeah, I love the leaf blower video lol he looked like a Ghostbusters with the leaf blower. But it worked perfect!!
Do you know the inside dimensions of the case? I would like to know if a 10s 4p scooter battery would fit. Keep up with the awesome videos!!
That was funny breaking the riv nut.... Hahaha
I broke one off when I was playing with my first rivet gun.
Amazes me that people tie the BMS charge/discharge grounds together...
Hey David does the BMS come with a USB plug on the end of it or is that something you added basically how are you hooking the BMS to the Bluetooth transmitter and what is that device that is sitting under your phone that is plugged in is that a extended battery
The BMS comes with a plug on it for data, but it's not USB. It's some type of JST plug.
Can you comment on whether these packs can be reconfigured 4P 12V?
These cells don't work out to a perfect 12V replacement. If you arrange them 4s (4 cells in series) then you have a 14.8V battery, that can be charged up to 16.8V. This might be fine for some things, but if you want something closer to 12V, then use LiFePO4 chemistry.
I would of put some kind of tape over the connections going to the batteries. Just for a little extra protection.
Hay David I was wondering if you thank these would work as a replacement for SLA batteries for a cordless lawnmower, I have a small yard so I use a cordless lawnmower but the batteries are in need of replacement and they are going to cast in upwards of $80.00 apiece for 2 and am thanking this might be an option.
This is a 48v battery. Is your lawn mower 48v? If it is, then you can probably replace it with this.
Very cool!
Matter of interest - how much does the complete battery pack with BMS and steel case weigh?
Though your method worked generally a Rivnut is installled the opposite direction.
In your other video, I can't tell which is cell 1,2,3 because they are in that wiring loom. That is what I did not understand. How did you know which wire went to which cell?
Usually the first wire is the main negative of the whole pack and then they count up from that. But you need to verify that with a wiring diagram from the manufacturer
@@DavidPozEnergy I think I just figured it out. The numbers will just be out of order instead of progressive 3v jumps?
Can I use these on an ebike?
I know these are high amp packs but would it be useable for a 5 amp draw with occasional short peaks of 30amp? Trying to make a ham radio off grid power pack.
Sure. If your ham radio works with 48v. But if your ham radio works with 12v, then I'd stick with 12v stuff. Battery Hookup has lots of batteries. If you want a 12v battery, then look for LiFePO4, arranged as a 4s configuration. Here is a pre-made 12v battery: batteryhookup.com/products/fully-tested-valence-u-charge-rt-series-u1-12rt-lifepo4-battery-12v-40ah-512wh?variant=39512047550626 You can still get a discount with code DAVIDPOZ
I was thinking of using this with a 48v inverter for the light draw then building a power wall later for backup supply
can anyone recommend an alternative to the steel box?
Those cells are about 2amp.
48*4-20%=307.2wh.
If the used cells were 2.6a or 2.2 (more common) then they pulled fine, you will find they do two things, self discharge or get hot when charging and discharging as the older they get the hotter they are.
Low current pulls would be okay, but for such a small battery power, I couldn't see them being much use unless you're making a small 300w portable power unit. In that case the metal case is a bit much.
Did you buy a cheap riv gun? We've two brands of tools here, if it breaks they'll replace it. Some stuff I tried to break it wouldn't, this was what you would expect to break. However something I wouldn't I did. But sorted withing 30 minutes.
Forged not cast s better...
Btw, pulling the cells to 0 (20%) will kill the cycles left in them.
@rory witham
How would that work if making into portable unit? Would need inverter since it’s 48v?
Super helpful video- thanks! Am new to the battery world and am curious if you think a couple of these would work well in parallel for a 48v electric dirt motorcycle I've build? My current battery pack (three sets of 13s3p with 30a BMS shuts off under any attempts at heavy acceleration. Am assuming these packs would be able to handle quick acceleration demands, but wouldn't have last long in terms of riding time?
Yes, these should work well for you. I've seen some examples of people using 1 or 2 on an E-bike, but never a dirt bike before. I used a 100 amp BMS in this build.
Would 4 of these in Parallel still use the same BMS?
@@impeydan am interested in your question as I had assumed I would need a separate BMS for each pack, then wire them in series after the BMS? My motor can pull 200a at the top of its range, so a single 100a BMS will shut off power early. A 200a BMS could work, but not sure how to wire it all. Am new to all this so not sure if I am missing something. I guess I have some time to research a bit while waiting for Battery Hookup to be able to restock their BMS.
@@calebshepherd553 I am new too. I just want to have more capacity. that's why 4. I will be only running at 100 amps max. I have 1 100amp bms just don't want to harm it if I can't run in parallel.
You said these wouldn't be good for a powerwall. Pardon if this is a dumb question, but I am just getting started with this. If a Tesla Powerwall is essentially two Tesla Model S batteries at roughly 5 kW then if I put 10 of these together configured for 48v and roughly 10kw, how well would that do for Solar Storage overnight assuming the correct panels, power optimizers. MPPT, etc... etc... Please help me understand if I shouldn't take advantage of this great price to make my own powerwall.
Each of these packs is 300Wh. 10 of them on the wall is 3kWh. You would need 34 of these packs to hit 10kWh.
@@DavidPozEnergy yes sorry... 10 5 packs... would this work okay. I have seen nothing as cheap to get that many KW
The difficulty is in wiring up the BMS's for all those packs. I like these packs when you need lots of Amps, but for short periods of time. Yard tools, portable power stations, golf carts, go carts, electric bikes, etc. But if the goal is capacity, then there are better options out there.
To get to the numbers, if you buy 35 packs that's $927.5. Then you will need to buy 35 BMS's @ $15 each (Daly 15A 13s) That's another $525, or $1,452 for 10.5kWh, $138.28/kWh. Plus a lot of time.
Alternately, you could buy 5 of these: batteryhookup.com/products/samsung-ev-lithium-ion-12s-44-4v-47ah-2-07kwh-module plus 5 of these BMS's: batteryhookup.com/collections/accessories/products/12v-lifepo4-smart-bms-w-low-temp-cutoff?variant=36287975391394 for a grand total of $1,650 for 10.35kWh, $159/kWh. Now you only have 5 things to wire up instead of 35. Yes, it's $200 more, but is 7 times less work, and is a better cell chemistry for long term storage.
Of course, it's up to you, but I'd rather have the second option between the two. Good luck, and please use coupon code DAVIDPOZ at checkout.
@@DavidPozEnergy wow thanks, I see what you mean and this is a big help. I really appreciate the insight. Keep up the great work on the videos!
@@DavidPozEnergy what does this mean? If I buy 7 of these as the ad says. - Imagine buying 7 modules for over 14kWh powerwall and using one module to add 2 cells to each 12s module. Making 6x 14s 48v modules. How would I do that?
what is a smallish 48v inverter that I can use with this to power a leaf blower like you did in your other video? is the 3000w one in your other video the smallest you'd recommend. That one cost $300 (ebay) to $400 (amazon)
You would probably be OK with a 2,000W inverter for a leaf blower. The 3000W was just one that I had.
Thanks for the video
Hi David love your work mate got a question for you. I have a 16x 1000ah lifepo4 bank (Winston) purchased second hand, at around 10 years old, one cell DOA, dead cell replaced with new cell and all cells sitting in parallel and being charged off and on at 3.224v / 0.5a for 6 + months. paralleled using small 30awg solid copper. The bank charged at different cells along the way. at first the new cell would always read slightly higher and the 2 cells next to it and also variation among groups of cells. > cut a long story short all cells now sitting at 3.224v. I have 1 month before the bank goes into solar set-up. Question: leave the bank sitting in parallel or disconnect and check for changes in individual cells, what would you do? Cheers to your channel you and your fams, love it!
If you disconnect the cells and let them sit individually, then that will allow you to check for any self discharging cells. If you come back in a month and you have find one or two that are lower than the rest you know you have a drain on the system
@@DavidPozEnergy Yep perfect, that's what i'll do then. thanks for your help much appreciated.
Good morning David first and foremost I have watched just about every one of your videos and I have to say you are very intuitive person that being said I figured you have been around the block a few times I'm at the moment installing a full solar system on my house in Arizona I scored a good deal on some ABB pvi 5000 grid tie inverters now I am going to install some off grid inverters with mppt I have done a ton of research and I have narrowed it down to two models one is the MPP VIP 5048mg that you talked about any previous video with Ben at his house about 2 years ago it has an 80 amp charging. The other one is a new to the market Growatt 48V 5000W 240V Off Grid Inverter 450V 48V 100A MPPT Split Phase Capable
Either way I have to use a Step Down Transformer I know the MPP has been on the market for a while and is a little cheaper what's your thoughts any will help thank you
I like the work you do. sadly a lot of the power packs are no good to me as i use a lot of things that run on 12 volts
Same
Would these work well for an electric motorcycle build?
Probably if you need 48V. You can parallel as many as you need. But, I was just checking out someone else build on a motorcycle, and he is using 72V, so he bought two of these and is wiring them in series: batteryhookup.com/products/36v-48ah-1776wh-spim08hp-36v-power-module he still got the discount with code DAVIDPOZ
Well, if Zero can make performance bikes with 28s, then using these in series (26s) sounds pretty reasonable.
Just a safety suggestion: You might want to move the battery pack to another table away from where your drilling and grinding metal to prevent metal from getting in the battery.
certainly thoughtful, but I'm sure it is addressed off camera. An aside, the man is rather meticulous
David can you explain why those batteries are not suitable for slow drain discharge??
You can use them for low-power draw applications. But these cells were engineered to deliver high amps, at a cost of low capacity. If you have a low-amp application then you can achieve the same capacity in a smaller package.
The 1600mah rating didn’t stop me. These have dropped in price and are now
@@tedhancock68 I'd like to know more about using the factory balance boards. Mine came sans the fuse
Hey Dave this is me Allan here going to be setting up my house on a DIY solar system been running a 8000 watt generator and seems to be powering the house but if I add an AC system to my house later down the road just wondering what size inverter I should get and there's several different brands out there seems like what box would you recommend me getting what system should I get 10000w 12000w thank you
There are a lot of good inverters and batteries out there. In the next 3 months I'm planning more inverter testing. As of right now, I'd suggest two of the Phocos 5k. They put out 120v each, and two can be paralleled to do split phase 120/240. Or 4 if you want a super -sized system. LOL. But 2 inverters (10kw total) should be plenty for most off grid people. Here is an affiliate link to it. If you use the affiliate link a small kickback will help the channel. But it's a link to Alt-E if you don't want to use the link. lddy.no/s5eo
@@DavidPozEnergy thank you so much had one more question I know it takes for 12 volt batteries to make 48 volts but what would be a good number of batteries or kilowatts to run this system
@@DavidPozEnergy I know it takes four batteries to make 48 volts but how many battery should I be getting to run those inverters to start off for those inverters for 10,000 Watts thank you so much for all your help
Broke down one of these packs. The cells are testing very strange. So far 60% have been 1100-1300 mah, the other 40% are 1900-2000 mah. If I see the same result for the second pack, I'm going to break them all down and reassemble with just good cells.
Any progress?
It’s odd that they disassemble these so they can sell them to us separately and then we get them we put them back together.
I was told they discovered they weren't allowed to sell them assembled, which is why they ended up disassembling. I bought 2 when the case and battery was still offered together. Oh well..
You're harvesting cells at a fraction of the cost and you need to know your system anyway or just go buy someone else's and pay a lot more.
12:28-we are going to have to change the rating on this video 🤣🤣
Hello, does anyone knows a similar Shop for that Kind of batterys in Europe? I love what battery hookup Provides, but I think the shipping Costs will Explode for europe
yes i have a lot of these with 2000 cells
Location Ireland davidflanagan65 at gmail
excellent intro; so we know what's what.
Hey David, I really appreciate your videos. I found you through battery hookup. I was considering purchasing 12 of these in order to convert a 48v electric zero turn lawnmower over to lithium. Trying to run 12 in parallel how would you handle the BMS issue? Would each module need a separate BMS?Would Should I look at different batteries?
I would use individual low amp bms on the packs. More expensive but it would decrease the chances of the packs going out of balance.
Are you swapping lead acid -> lithium? I'm trying to make my own DIY zero turn and thinking the same thing with these. Other option was an EG4. Did you ever go through with this?
These units are already 48v each. so you would only need one bms per pack. I was thinking of just getting 2 of them for my e-bike. 1 battery for when i leave the house and when/if that one dies then i hook up the second one to get home.
Nice video