Thirty years ago, or so, I had the need for .45-75-350WCF. I mentioned to Dad that I'd discovered that .348WCF was a VERY HANDY case for older firearms; he disappeared into his garage, and with a grin, came back with a coffee can half-full of various fired .348WCF... I found that if I cut them down a bit, and annealed them just past the shoulder, they'd firearm in the Winchesters chamber just dandy. I also found that they'd make decent .50-70Gov. Those that had cracked during the process became "56-50 Spencer CF" brass which in spite of its rather small rim diameter, worked "OK" with knife-blade extractors, and just fine in Armi-Sport Spencers with spring-loaded "Lane" extractors. The .348WCF brass is may bueno for us BP Cartridge afficionados...
I just picked up Two 50-70 rifles a trapdoor and a Remington Rolling Block I found 100 50-90 Starline Brass and the same Lee mold as you . Both guns are nice and good to excellent shape .I am looking forward to shooting them along with 2- 43 Spanish Rolling blocks I have. I have been making 43 brass from 348 win and that is a challenge but got it down to an art now . I have a mold from Accurate Molds for 43 Spanish and 348 gascheck mold . Yes loads of fun. My issue is too many guns and not enough time and I am retired .
About 20 years ago, I was using 348 Winchester brass trimmed,annealed, and fireformed, and then full length sized. The only problem is that the rim is a little bit undersized, I modified an extractor to take care of ejecting cases. This was for an 1868 Springfield trapdoor rifle.
As a Snider owner and shooter, I have used 24 ga. Magtech brass hulls to shorten and fireform. I then bought an odd (French) 14mm/32 ga. bolt action single shot Garden Gun. I bought Magtech 32 ga. brass hulls which I cut down and used them to shoot with black powder and 490 round balls. I was able to buy 50-70 brass for $1 each which would only hold 45 grs. of BP + the .515 lead bullet. I then realized I could probably use the 32 ga. shortened brass to make 50-70 cases. I have not done that experiment yet, since I had plenty of regular 50-70 brass. I hope to try it this Summer/Fall. Using the 45 gr. load, my 50-70 RRB shot at point of aim @50 yds.
The most occult info in the shooting game is how brass cartridge cases are drawn and formed. When you figure that out , you can start working on making primers from scratch.
I have a Remington Rolling Block in 50-70. It's one of my most favorite rifles. Shoots great, lot of punch, without a lot of recoil. Black powder is great in a cartridge. Mine gets about 1,200 fps too. With a 450 grain bullet, it passes though about everything.
Great channel and video. It is one thing to know what you have to do to get your gun loaded - and another thing to actually do it. Great job, way to stick to it, and thank you for sharing the process.
Cool old gun. Love seeing them working again. I have an 1873 40-60 Marlin, which was obsolete since 1892, but found out I can use 40-65 Winchester, it's just 1/8" shorter. Worked out pretty good on mine. ;)
@@Everythingblackpowder I don't have a welder or access to one so I'm not really sure if drilling holes and using strap steel and bolts might work it was meant for the junk yard anyway so I'll probably give it a shot
Awesome. I’m doing the same turning 45-70 brass into 40-65 for a rolling block. They haven’t made several calibers in years unfortunately. Glad you and 11 bang bang can shoot your trapdoors now.
The fun of rare calibers. I have wondered when the feasibility of metal 3D printing becomes cheap enough to become a viable option for getting rare brass.
My grandfather used to say “ you can tell the measure of a man by the size of the buttstock bruise on his shoulder” you must have to ice for days my friend. Keep the awesome vids coming!
Their is also the hard way to make it. Cut the head from bar stock, on a lathe and solder a thin wall brass tube to it. I have made shells this way before works really well for low pressure rounds.
A couple of years ago I got myself a Cimarron Arms Sharps carbine in .50-70 and after getting an initial 50 cases or so from Starline I decided to get some more and have not regretted it since. Where I live in the northeast, .45-70 is non-existent in either the form of ammo or brass, and since I have a 1888 Trapdoor, if I got ammo I would have to get the old Remington slow moving 405's or if I got anything else, I would have to pull the darn things. I just checked MidwayUSA and they're out of Hornady brass and they were asking $87 for 50 brand new cases. Starline is showing as no backorder even for .45-70 and I can't imagine that their .50-70 will be available anytime in the future, near or otherwise. Some of these oddball calibers are going for a King's ransom. I just sold an 1894 Winchester in .32-40 and I had found some 150 brand new Winchester cases for it a couple years back, that netted me a pretty good chunk of change alone because you're not finding any ammo for that one these days. I always wondered how a box of little teeny tiny .25-20 Winchester rounds costs so much to make given that the bullet is less than 100 grains and there's hardly any brass there. It's getting so that you need to win the lottery to be able to shoot your own guns these days.
Mr Quigley this calibration is unusual it will take some time to duplicate. No sir you can substitute with 50-90 brass . Biden isn't going to wait😂. Well done Jake well done.
fortunately early trapdoors didn't come with 30 round mags like our current military issue service rifles...can you imagine how spendy that would be to feed a couple of trapdoor full mag dumps? #lovemesomesingleshot!
Thanks for the video. I have an old sharps that is 50-70. It started its life as a paper cartridge rifle and the disc primers. Some time during the civil war or right after it was converted to a center fire rifle in 50-70. It is in shooting condition according to my gunsmith. I want to get some ammo loaded even if its only a half dozen rounds or so. The rifle is serial # 1279 and is a carbine with the saddle ring which I had to replace. The rifle is nose light so it might kick a little, and I want to find out if it does.
Fantastic results! I’ve jumped thru hoops too to get .577/450 brass for my Martini Henry. Had a box of that B.E.L.L. brass years ago and it still had to be formed. Best I recollect it was about $10 a piece decades ago. It was hard to form the bottleneck on mine without crushing a few but that’s the price to pay. I’ve since used mag tech 24 gauge brass shotshells and they work much better. The brass isn’t as thick but good loads work just fine in it anyway. Great video!
I want one too! "but" I want a shooter, so I will look for a 45/70 as "I feel" loading will just be less a struggle. But I do love "Watching Yours" for my edumackations'
Wow, I did not know it got up that much. I had that Starline brass around the shop for quite a while. I think I kept a bag of two for my 68 trapdoor I hope my damn employees didn’t put it out for sale. Because it was priced a lot cheaper.
I have used 50-90 sharps brass to make 50-95 win cases. But needed a good amount of adjusting dimensions to make work, rim diameter and thickness had to be reduced, then cases roughly cut to length, sized and then trimmed to correct length. They work quite well. A lathe made things much easier.
I know the feeling. I load for an 8mm Mauser. 8mm brass is vastly overpriced and if you get once-fired, you'll break your decapper in a berdan-primed case that snuck in. I am experimenting in converting berdan casings to boxer casings, but my go-to is necking up .30-06 (or a couple related cases) and cutting off the excess.
My first 50 caliber was a Navy rolling lock in 50 Carbine. I bought the rifle in 1975. I've been accumulating brass ever since. I only use smokeless since my brass is too precious. Good presentation.
Hey Boss, I think I might have found another source of 58 cal bullets for you. The Pellet Shop sells bullets for 58 cal air rifles that look like they will work, they say they can sell them unsized and that would put the largest one at .583 of an inch. It might be worth a look.
I worked at a machine shop back in the early 90s that took a bunch of "hey man" jobs. Can't recall the caliber but we machined some 50 cal straight wall brass cartridges on a turett lathe out of solid bar. They copied the dimensions from an old loading manual and said have at it.
Pick up Handloader's manual of cartridge conversions if you haven't already. Unfortunately the prime purveyor of the gunbroker brass bazaar has an inside with starline. Thanks for sharing !
I have an original 50-70 govt. Sharps carbine. Tried getting some 50-70 brass but hit a price higher than what I could pay. Purchased some Magtech 32 gauge and going to trim them down and make them work in next couple weeks. Biggest issue is the rim diameter and thickness, going to be more headspace and extraction issue. Hopefully it won't blow out 😬.
Excellent video! Saving a few bucks or two is a norm for me. I use .30-30 brass for my .38-55, however there are not as many hoops to jump thru as what you have. Still, its all part of the fun!
It's in the same family of cartridges I believe that the 38-55 Winchester is the parent cartridge of the 30-30 25-35 32 special and the old 32-40 just necked down
I still have a box of 20 empty 50-70 cases that came from Dixie Gun Works back in the 1980s. Back then, I also got my hands on 10 cases that had been made from .348 cases. I found that the base of the case is a bit undersize, they expand above the base more than I would like when you fire form them. Also, my 50-70 rolling block didn't extract them very well because the extractor would often slip past the undersize rim. I think that if you have to make cases, the 50-90 cases are definitely the best bet. Also, you might want to check Track of the Wolf to see what they might have available. I got my 43 Spanish cases from there pretty reasonably, considering...
Speaking of shooting chapstick. We were doing pest control at night along the canals and i accidentally stuffed a L.I. flashlight battery in my Remington mod 17 (20ga) mag tube. Was too long to get it out so it was a mad dash to disassemble it before it popped in the full tube. Was stupid hot by the time it came out. Never doing that again
Good video-I’m really enjoying your channel! I had one of those rifles years ago but regretfully, I ended up trading it. Making those cases isn’t so bad 😉. I have a rifle that I had to make reloading dies and cartridge cases for. It was quite a project to say the least. I turned the first and second batches of cartridge cases from naval brass but they lengthened by about 0.010” after each firing and sizing (too soft) so I converted 50 BMG cases for the last batch and those are much better. The gun was made in 1889 and the cartridge cases are almost identical to the .700 NE but those cases are very hard to find and way too expensive. It was satisfying to get that rifle functioning again but I don’t think that I’ll take on a project of that magnitude again.
I know I've mentioned it before but please consider investing into 37mm; its black powder and a ton of fun to reload for. You can also make your own shells with a 3D printer!
What I’ve been doing to, sort of in a way but not really, make 50-70 ammo is by taking magtech brass 32 gauge shells and loading them like a 50-70. I call it the poor man’s 50-70 lol. I’ve got an h&r 32 gauge with a rifled barrel, .50 cal bore and for the bullet i use .50 cal hornady grain plains bullets which actually measure .51. I don’t trim my cases so technically it’s a 50-90 loaded like a 50-70. I use nitro cards as my filler. The only thing I do to the cases are annealing and sizing them down a few thousands to allow for ejection. The chamber of that gun is a little too tight for brass shells. Plastic is fine. You could try using the magtech brass shells to make true 50-70 if you wanted too, I know plenty of other people have.
@@Everythingblackpowder I don’t think they would work in a trapdoor no, the rims on a 32 gauge shell measure .620 instead of .660. I know other people are getting it to work but I don’t see how now that I know the rims are too small. The I.D. of the brass hulls are .530 so they’d need some work there too.
I understand what you went through for brass. Before I could find any I made 43 Spanish out of 348 Winchester. It worked OK but factor 43 Spanish is way better.
Sometimes we need to puzzle it out just to keep it interesting. Me I just purchased a .50 caliber barrel myself. This time the puzzle is where is it? Left the Boise transfer station on the 12th, and does not seem to moved since. Good video as always. Mountain man
I was going to offer to send you some bullets, they you showed the mold, it's the same I size down to 0.510 for an airgun. I do have a slightly lighter weight from an Accurate mold, but I had him cut it for 0.510, it throws pure lead at 0.511 and around 375 grains. Happy to send some of you want to try them. Lee are my favorite brand, they just always seem to work for me, but the Accurate is really nice for those different shapes and custom sizes.
I'm guessing Star Line didn't/doesn't make 50-70 brass? I seem to recall that you could get untrimmed drawn brass for obscure type rounds. But it's been a few years since I ran across that.
Similar technique to make 12,17x44R CF Norwegian/ Swedish cartridge ( orig. M67 Military was RF...civilian version CF.) The 12,17 dimension is a funny Scandinvian rendition, due the the Rifling design; the Bullet used is actually close to .50 Caliber ( 12,7mm). Normal .50 Cast Lead used for US .50 BP cartridges works OK in the Scandinavian cartridge. DocAV
Ferguson rifle 1779, Nock Valley revolver rifle, Collier revolver rifle and Miller revolver rifle I like much because they save money from cartridges. I think the more economical are the paper cartridges. I like much paper cartridges.
Glad you found a solution for your your brass. So what are the ballistic differences between 4/70 and 50/70? Same amount of powder and more or less the same bullet weight. Wasn’t there a famous story about a trooper shooting an Indian at a great distance and he chose a 50/70 to do so? Thanks for the video .
Did you try loading up a dummy round with untrimmed 50-90 brass? Sometimes the chambers are VERY generous. I have a '66 second Allen conversion, an 1867 model Danish rolling block that had the chamber reamed, and an 1871 NYS issued rolling block. All three have different chamber lengths, with '66 having the longest.
I have always wondered if 500 S&W MAG would work for the 50-70.. I bought a couple bags for the H&R rifle .... but it seems like it would work ok as long as the walls weren't too thick to where it wouldn't seal the chamber when fired .. but then again , if this were the case , you could just ream them ... I know it's a heck of a lot cheaper than 50-90 and you wouldn't have to trim a bunch off of them ..
@@Everythingblackpowderjust wanted to let you know my friend if you had any interest, I can buy pnitrate by the 50lb bag for a dollar a lb right down the road from me.i don't know what you pay figured I'd let you know.
Talk about jumping through some hoops. You sure went a long ways just to get some brass and I don't blame you because that was a real nice rifle. Didn't look like it kicked too bad. Thanks for the video
Congratulations on your new to you Trapdoor Springfield! Another great video with useful information. Hopefully, 50-70 brass becomes available before you make a whole bunch the “hard way”. Sheash, it’s still expensive! I’m in Arizona and always wondering where you are based in the landscape of your range - NM? Definitely greener than here and often breezy! Thanks again!
Thanks for sharing your process for getting that old rifle running. How would you compare the 50-70 to the 577 Snider? I would guess it's pretty similar but I have no experience with either.
Love your channel and info. Just picked up a Remington Rolling Block in .50 that I would like to reload for. I was curious what type of Dies and other reloading equipment you use for these? OK, thanks for the video!
I have a 1863 Springfield trapdoor in very good condition, but it is an older one. Do you think it will be safe to shoot with a slightly older rifle? I'm concerned about the older steel used. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
What is your opinion on loading the different powders for BP brass cartridges? A popular youtuber, we'll call him MB ;) , said Swiss doesn't like being compressed and favors Goex. Which of course now is Unobtanium. No mention of Grafs brand or Schuetzen. I'd love to see a video on powder comparisons when used in a brass cartridge. At least for rifle cartridges. Thanks! Keep up the great videos.
Oh yes, I have heard many people say “Swiss doesn’t like to be compressed” and to be honest I used to believe the same thing myself. After several test with several calibers I can tell you from personal experience that certainly doesn’t seem to be the case. I run 40 grains of 3F Swiss, in 45 Colt with a 250 grain projectile and I get the best accuracy and very consistent velocity with minimal spread. In my “not so humble opinion” Swiss is the absolute best commercial black powder you can buy. Goex and Schuetzen don’t even come close. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Mike and he really has taught me a lot over the years but this is something that we disagree on. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
@@Everythingblackpowder Thank you. I'll have to give Swiss a try. I've got some due in yesterday if it wasn't for FedEx playing pinball with my package... I wasn't that happy with Goex 3F in my 45-60. Not compared to smokeless. Maybe Swiss is the answer. Or change to 2F.
That's awesome, I love building stuff from scratch, or modifying something like tou have here. Those are some pricey cases! How many times can you reload them? I'm more familiar with reloading smokeless.
@@Everythingblackpowder that's what I figured, makes the investment and work a lot more worth it than if it was smokeless. BTW, if you decide to mill aluminum in your ball mill for flash powder at some point, be careful to do it outside and to let some air in every few hours. Otherwise it has a nasty habit of self igniting when opened.
I wonder in 500 S&W would work. The case length is 1.75 exactly as well apparently. Now the case would have to be widened by a few thousandths to take the bullet but hey thats kinda normal.
I never had an urge to shoot the 1870 Springfield rolling block rifle I inherited, but now I do! Fun video.
Glad to hear it
Well done!! Love seeing old trapdoors live again!
Thank you
Thirty years ago, or so, I had the need for .45-75-350WCF. I mentioned to Dad that I'd discovered that .348WCF was a VERY HANDY case for older firearms; he disappeared into his garage, and with a grin, came back with a coffee can half-full of various fired .348WCF... I found that if I cut them down a bit, and annealed them just past the shoulder, they'd firearm in the Winchesters chamber just dandy. I also found that they'd make decent .50-70Gov. Those that had cracked during the process became "56-50 Spencer CF" brass which in spite of its rather small rim diameter, worked "OK" with knife-blade extractors, and just fine in Armi-Sport Spencers with spring-loaded "Lane" extractors. The .348WCF brass is may bueno for us BP Cartridge afficionados...
I just picked up Two 50-70 rifles a trapdoor and a Remington Rolling Block
I found 100 50-90 Starline Brass and the same Lee mold as you .
Both guns are nice and good to excellent shape .I am looking forward to shooting
them along with 2- 43 Spanish Rolling blocks I have. I have been making 43 brass
from 348 win and that is a challenge but got it down to an art now . I have a mold
from Accurate Molds for 43 Spanish and 348 gascheck mold . Yes loads of fun.
My issue is too many guns and not enough time and I am retired .
About 20 years ago, I was using 348 Winchester brass trimmed,annealed, and fireformed, and then full length sized.
The only problem is that the rim is a little bit undersized, I modified an extractor to take care of ejecting cases.
This was for an 1868 Springfield trapdoor rifle.
I was just going to say the same thing, rim is the same thickness, maybe 60 thou smaller in diameter, and the base is maybe 20 thou smaller.
I wonder is 500 linebaugh cases would work as a substitute as well?
What a Joy, watching you Boyz Shoot!
Brought a big smile to my face!
Have a great day!
Thanks hawk
As a Snider owner and shooter, I have used 24 ga. Magtech brass hulls to shorten and fireform. I then bought an odd (French) 14mm/32 ga. bolt action single shot Garden Gun. I bought Magtech 32 ga. brass hulls which I cut down and used them to shoot with black powder and 490 round balls. I was able to buy 50-70 brass for $1 each which would only hold 45 grs. of BP + the .515 lead bullet. I then realized I could probably use the 32 ga. shortened brass to make 50-70 cases. I have not done that experiment yet, since I had plenty of regular 50-70 brass. I hope to try it this Summer/Fall. Using the 45 gr. load, my 50-70 RRB shot at point of aim @50 yds.
Prices are outrageous! Being a truck mechanic, I even save lead tire weights and I have about 500 cases of 45-70 that I anneal. Keep up the good work!
Thank you
The most occult info in the shooting game is how brass cartridge cases are drawn and formed.
When you figure that out , you can start working on making primers from scratch.
aardvark reloading has a whole manual on that
I have a Remington Rolling Block in 50-70. It's one of my most favorite rifles. Shoots great, lot of punch, without a lot of recoil. Black powder is great in a cartridge. Mine gets about 1,200 fps too. With a 450 grain bullet, it passes though about everything.
Excellent
That's a long road to go down to get brass, pretty great of you to share your results with everyone.
Thank you
Great channel and video. It is one thing to know what you have to do to get your gun loaded - and another thing to actually do it. Great job, way to stick to it, and thank you for sharing the process.
Thank you
Cool old gun. Love seeing them working again. I have an 1873 40-60 Marlin, which was obsolete since 1892, but found out I can use 40-65 Winchester, it's just 1/8" shorter. Worked out pretty good on mine. ;)
Excellent
This was really cool👍. I have an old treadmill that im really tempted to make a ball mill out of😂
What’s stopping you?
@@Everythingblackpowder I don't have a welder or access to one so I'm not really sure if drilling holes and using strap steel and bolts might work it was meant for the junk yard anyway so I'll probably give it a shot
@@Darth_Boons you could always have a local fab shop weld it up for you, or make some kind of wooden frame for it also, lots of ways to skin a cat .
Awesome. I’m doing the same turning 45-70 brass into 40-65 for a rolling block. They haven’t made several calibers in years unfortunately. Glad you and 11 bang bang can shoot your trapdoors now.
The fun of rare calibers. I have wondered when the feasibility of metal 3D printing becomes cheap enough to become a viable option for getting rare brass.
My grandfather used to say “ you can tell the measure of a man by the size of the buttstock bruise on his shoulder” you must have to ice for days my friend. Keep the awesome vids coming!
Thank you
Their is also the hard way to make it. Cut the head from bar stock, on a lathe and solder a thin wall brass tube to it. I have made shells this way before works really well for low pressure rounds.
A couple of years ago I got myself a Cimarron Arms Sharps carbine in .50-70 and after getting an initial 50 cases or so from Starline I decided to get some more and have not regretted it since. Where I live in the northeast, .45-70 is non-existent in either the form of ammo or brass, and since I have a 1888 Trapdoor, if I got ammo I would have to get the old Remington slow moving 405's or if I got anything else, I would have to pull the darn things. I just checked MidwayUSA and they're out of Hornady brass and they were asking $87 for 50 brand new cases. Starline is showing as no backorder even for .45-70 and I can't imagine that their .50-70 will be available anytime in the future, near or otherwise. Some of these oddball calibers are going for a King's ransom. I just sold an 1894 Winchester in .32-40 and I had found some 150 brand new Winchester cases for it a couple years back, that netted me a pretty good chunk of change alone because you're not finding any ammo for that one these days. I always wondered how a box of little teeny tiny .25-20 Winchester rounds costs so much to make given that the bullet is less than 100 grains and there's hardly any brass there. It's getting so that you need to win the lottery to be able to shoot your own guns these days.
Mr Quigley this calibration is unusual it will take some time to duplicate. No sir you can substitute with 50-90 brass . Biden isn't going to wait😂. Well done Jake well done.
Thank you
@@Everythingblackpowder No thank you sir for sharing.
As a farmer myself if I can't buy it I make it or have friends that can help to make it.
Picked up a 50/70 Springfield at Tulsa gun show some 30 years ago. Brass wasn't a problem then. Took a deer with it.
Excellent
fortunately early trapdoors didn't come with 30 round mags like our current military issue service rifles...can you imagine how spendy that would be to feed a couple of trapdoor full mag dumps?
#lovemesomesingleshot!
Thanks for the video. I have an old sharps that is 50-70. It started its life as a paper cartridge rifle and the disc primers. Some time during the civil war or right after it was converted to a center fire rifle in 50-70. It is in shooting condition according to my gunsmith. I want to get some ammo loaded even if its only a half dozen rounds or so. The rifle is serial # 1279 and is a carbine with the saddle ring which I had to replace. The rifle is nose light so it might kick a little, and I want to find out if it does.
Fantastic results!
I’ve jumped thru hoops too to get .577/450 brass for my Martini Henry. Had a box of that B.E.L.L. brass years ago and it still had to be formed. Best I recollect it was about $10 a piece decades ago. It was hard to form the bottleneck on mine without crushing a few but that’s the price to pay. I’ve since used mag tech 24 gauge brass shotshells and they work much better. The brass isn’t as thick but good loads work just fine in it anyway. Great video!
Thank you
Wow, glad I stocked up 30 years ago.
That was a labour of love-or lust!
Good job.
I want one too! "but" I want a shooter, so I will look for a 45/70 as "I feel" loading will just be less a struggle. But I do love "Watching Yours" for my edumackations'
Thanks, Dave
Very good video. I know that it is alot of hoops but man 50-70 is now my all time favorite cartridge
Thanks, Garrett.
Nice job on the brass.
Wow, I did not know it got up that much. I had that Starline brass around the shop for quite a while. I think I kept a bag of two for my 68 trapdoor I hope my damn employees didn’t put it out for sale. Because it was priced a lot cheaper.
I have used 50-90 sharps brass to make 50-95 win cases. But needed a good amount of adjusting dimensions to make work, rim diameter and thickness had to be reduced, then cases roughly cut to length, sized and then trimmed to correct length. They work quite well. A lathe made things much easier.
I know the feeling. I load for an 8mm Mauser. 8mm brass is vastly overpriced and if you get once-fired, you'll break your decapper in a berdan-primed case that snuck in. I am experimenting in converting berdan casings to boxer casings, but my go-to is necking up .30-06 (or a couple related cases) and cutting off the excess.
My first 50 caliber was a Navy rolling lock in 50 Carbine. I bought the rifle in 1975. I've been accumulating brass ever since. I only use smokeless since my brass is too precious.
Good presentation.
Hey Boss, I think I might have found another source of 58 cal bullets for you. The Pellet Shop sells bullets for 58 cal air rifles that look like they will work, they say they can sell them unsized and that would put the largest one at .583 of an inch. It might be worth a look.
Thank you
I have no involment in blackpowder yet love this channel
Glad to hear it
The down draft pushing the smoke at about 7min 30 sec was cool to see.
Part of the fun in shooting old rifles is getting them going to shoot.
Some of the prices asked and paid on GB these days are unbelievable.
Agreed.
I worked at a machine shop back in the early 90s that took a bunch of "hey man" jobs. Can't recall the caliber but we machined some 50 cal straight wall brass cartridges on a turett lathe out of solid bar. They copied the dimensions from an old loading manual and said have at it.
Interesting
I was able to get some 50-70 brass from Buffalo Arms . It was reformed from 348 brass. The rim was just enough to work with the Sharps ejector
Pick up Handloader's manual of cartridge conversions if you haven't already. Unfortunately the prime purveyor of the gunbroker brass bazaar has an inside with starline. Thanks for sharing !
I have an original 50-70 govt. Sharps carbine. Tried getting some 50-70 brass but hit a price higher than what I could pay. Purchased some Magtech 32 gauge and going to trim them down and make them work in next couple weeks. Biggest issue is the rim diameter and thickness, going to be more headspace and extraction issue. Hopefully it won't blow out 😬.
I'm thinking about trying to do the same thing did it work?
Excellent video! Saving a few bucks or two is a norm for me. I use .30-30 brass for my .38-55, however there are not as many hoops to jump thru as what you have. Still, its all part of the fun!
Excellent
It's in the same family of cartridges I believe that the 38-55 Winchester is the parent cartridge of the 30-30 25-35 32 special and the old 32-40 just necked down
I still have a box of 20 empty 50-70 cases that came from Dixie Gun Works back in the 1980s. Back then, I also got my hands on 10 cases that had been made from .348 cases. I found that the base of the case is a bit undersize, they expand above the base more than I would like when you fire form them. Also, my 50-70 rolling block didn't extract them very well because the extractor would often slip past the undersize rim. I think that if you have to make cases, the 50-90 cases are definitely the best bet.
Also, you might want to check Track of the Wolf to see what they might have available. I got my 43 Spanish cases from there pretty reasonably, considering...
Speaking of shooting chapstick. We were doing pest control at night along the canals and i accidentally stuffed a L.I. flashlight battery in my Remington mod 17 (20ga) mag tube. Was too long to get it out so it was a mad dash to disassemble it before it popped in the full tube. Was stupid hot by the time it came out. Never doing that again
Be nice to it & name it "Lucretia"! Buffalo Bills favorite bison rifle. Looks like loads of fun!!
Good video-I’m really enjoying your channel! I had one of those rifles years ago but regretfully, I ended up trading it. Making those cases isn’t so bad 😉. I have a rifle that I had to make reloading dies and cartridge cases for. It was quite a project to say the least. I turned the first and second batches of cartridge cases from naval brass but they lengthened by about 0.010” after each firing and sizing (too soft) so I converted 50 BMG cases for the last batch and those are much better. The gun was made in 1889 and the cartridge cases are almost identical to the .700 NE but those cases are very hard to find and way too expensive. It was satisfying to get that rifle functioning again but I don’t think that I’ll take on a project of that magnitude again.
I know I've mentioned it before but please consider investing into 37mm; its black powder and a ton of fun to reload for. You can also make your own shells with a 3D printer!
What I’ve been doing to, sort of in a way but not really, make 50-70 ammo is by taking magtech brass 32 gauge shells and loading them like a 50-70. I call it the poor man’s 50-70 lol. I’ve got an h&r 32 gauge with a rifled barrel, .50 cal bore and for the bullet i use .50 cal hornady grain plains bullets which actually measure .51. I don’t trim my cases so technically it’s a 50-90 loaded like a 50-70. I use nitro cards as my filler. The only thing I do to the cases are annealing and sizing them down a few thousands to allow for ejection. The chamber of that gun is a little too tight for brass shells. Plastic is fine.
You could try using the magtech brass shells to make true 50-70 if you wanted too, I know plenty of other people have.
Does it function in trapdoors? I thought the rim was too small
@@Everythingblackpowder I don’t think they would work in a trapdoor no, the rims on a 32 gauge shell measure .620 instead of .660. I know other people are getting it to work but I don’t see how now that I know the rims are too small. The I.D. of the brass hulls are .530 so they’d need some work there too.
Starline is taking backorders on 50-70 which is usually a good sign some is coming soon, although I haven't backordered anything super rare.
I understand what you went through for brass. Before I could find any I made 43 Spanish out of 348 Winchester. It worked OK but factor 43 Spanish is way better.
Sometimes we need to puzzle it out just to keep it interesting. Me I just purchased a .50 caliber barrel myself. This time the puzzle is where is it? Left the Boise transfer station on the 12th, and does not seem to moved since.
Good video as always.
Mountain man
Uh oh, I hope it turns up.
Sweet!!
I was going to offer to send you some bullets, they you showed the mold, it's the same I size down to 0.510 for an airgun. I do have a slightly lighter weight from an Accurate mold, but I had him cut it for 0.510, it throws pure lead at 0.511 and around 375 grains. Happy to send some of you want to try them. Lee are my favorite brand, they just always seem to work for me, but the Accurate is really nice for those different shapes and custom sizes.
Thanks but that would be too small.
I'm guessing Star Line didn't/doesn't make 50-70 brass? I seem to recall that you could get untrimmed drawn brass for obscure type rounds. But it's been a few years since I ran across that.
Thanks. Well done
Thank you
.50-70 brass is on gunbroker again, a lot cheaper than what you saw (I was just looking for 45-70 and found it)
Similar technique to make 12,17x44R CF Norwegian/ Swedish cartridge ( orig. M67 Military was RF...civilian version CF.)
The 12,17 dimension is a funny Scandinvian rendition, due the the Rifling design; the Bullet used is actually close to .50 Caliber ( 12,7mm).
Normal .50 Cast Lead used for US .50 BP cartridges works OK in the Scandinavian cartridge.
DocAV
Ferguson rifle 1779, Nock Valley revolver rifle, Collier revolver rifle and Miller revolver rifle I like much because they save money from cartridges. I think the more economical are the paper cartridges. I like much paper cartridges.
Dear sir i have used 50 alasken works great. Thanks
Good to know
awesome! i have an 1866 short rifle myself(2 band). pretty impressive shouldee artillery thats for sure!
Thank you
Glad you found a solution for your your brass. So what are the ballistic differences between 4/70 and 50/70? Same amount of powder and more or less the same bullet weight. Wasn’t there a famous story about a trooper shooting an Indian at a great distance and he chose a 50/70 to do so?
Thanks for the video .
Did you try loading up a dummy round with untrimmed 50-90 brass? Sometimes the chambers are VERY generous. I have a '66 second Allen conversion, an 1867 model Danish rolling block that had the chamber reamed, and an 1871 NYS issued rolling block. All three have different chamber lengths, with '66 having the longest.
No kidding?!?! No, but I wish I would have tried it
Some days in future maybe will have a possibility to do a better metal cartridges or brass, bronze or copper cartridges
I have always wondered if 500 S&W MAG would work for the 50-70.. I bought a couple bags for the H&R rifle .... but it seems like it would work ok as long as the walls weren't too thick to where it wouldn't seal the chamber when fired .. but then again , if this were the case , you could just ream them ... I know it's a heck of a lot cheaper than 50-90 and you wouldn't have to trim a bunch off of them ..
That's crazy how much people are paying for those. Awesome how resourceful you are though💪
Thank you
@@Everythingblackpowderjust wanted to let you know my friend if you had any interest, I can buy pnitrate by the 50lb bag for a dollar a lb right down the road from me.i don't know what you pay figured I'd let you know.
You just need a small tubing cutter,that would save turning down the heads
Talk about jumping through some hoops. You sure went a long ways just to get some brass and I don't blame you because that was a real nice rifle. Didn't look like it kicked too bad. Thanks for the video
Thank you. There’s no point in owning a firearm if you cans get ammo for it.
@@Everythingblackpowder Amen brother
Beautiful gun, wish I had one for myself. Then again, I probably wouldn’t shoot it that much, because of the lack of ammo.
Congratulations on your new to you Trapdoor Springfield! Another great video with useful information. Hopefully, 50-70 brass becomes available before you make a whole bunch the “hard way”. Sheash, it’s still expensive!
I’m in Arizona and always wondering where you are based in the landscape of your range - NM? Definitely greener than here and often breezy!
Thanks again!
Let’s hope! Thanks.
Thanks for sharing your process for getting that old rifle running. How would you compare the 50-70 to the 577 Snider? I would guess it's pretty similar but I have no experience with either.
The snider has more recoil.
I use .50 AE STARLINE BRASS, had to buy 250 pc lot, converted/shortened to size in my 12.7mm swedish rolling block i size in 50-70 govnt dies.
Could you make it from 50 basic straight brass, then size it? I remember something like this.
.50 Alaskan or .450 Alaskan. Both cane from .348 brass to be used in Winchester 71's.
Love your channel and info. Just picked up a Remington Rolling Block in .50 that I would like to reload for. I was curious what type of Dies and other reloading equipment you use for these? OK, thanks for the video!
I have a set of Lyman dies and that Lee bullet mold. That’s about it
I have a 1863 Springfield trapdoor in very good condition, but it is an older one. Do you think it will be safe to shoot with a slightly older rifle? I'm concerned about the older steel used. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
That's cool it an old monster love it
Hopefully the 50-90 Sharps stockpile doesn't dry up or else you'll have to go with 50-100 or 50-110 which probably isn't cheap...
I was lucky enough to get in a good supply of .50-70 brass , but finding .25-20 brass has so far been pretty much impossible to date.
What is your opinion on loading the different powders for BP brass cartridges? A popular youtuber, we'll call him MB ;) , said Swiss doesn't like being compressed and favors Goex. Which of course now is Unobtanium. No mention of Grafs brand or Schuetzen.
I'd love to see a video on powder comparisons when used in a brass cartridge. At least for rifle cartridges.
Thanks! Keep up the great videos.
Oh yes, I have heard many people say “Swiss doesn’t like to be compressed” and to be honest I used to believe the same thing myself. After several test with several calibers I can tell you from personal experience that certainly doesn’t seem to be the case. I run 40 grains of 3F Swiss, in 45 Colt with a 250 grain projectile and I get the best accuracy and very consistent velocity with minimal spread. In my
“not so humble opinion” Swiss is the absolute best commercial black powder you can buy. Goex and Schuetzen don’t even come close. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Mike and he really has taught me a lot over the years but this is something that we disagree on. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
@@Everythingblackpowder Thank you. I'll have to give Swiss a try. I've got some due in yesterday if it wasn't for FedEx playing pinball with my package...
I wasn't that happy with Goex 3F in my 45-60. Not compared to smokeless. Maybe Swiss is the answer. Or change to 2F.
I was wondering after you fired your rounds did you perhaps measure the once fired brass to see how much it grew in length if any?
Nope sorry
Did you use pure lead, alloy, or wheel weights? Just curious, thanks.
Wheel weights
Do you think it would work if you loaded .44 cal jacketed bullets with a .50 cal sabot into them?
I wonder if 500 linebaugh would work as a parent case considering it is also made from 348 brass.
That's awesome, I love building stuff from scratch, or modifying something like tou have here. Those are some pricey cases! How many times can you reload them? I'm more familiar with reloading smokeless.
Dozens on times if not more. Black powder is pretty easy on cases.
@@Everythingblackpowder that's what I figured, makes the investment and work a lot more worth it than if it was smokeless. BTW, if you decide to mill aluminum in your ball mill for flash powder at some point, be careful to do it outside and to let some air in every few hours. Otherwise it has a nasty habit of self igniting when opened.
At least you only have to trim them one time.
😉
Fantastic video as always. How do you treat your brass after BP?
Thank you. I de cap them and throw them in my wet tumbler for a couple hours and they come out beautiful.
.50-70 is the original parent case .348 was based on.
hell jake over 5 bucks a case you might as well get brass stock chuck up the lathe and mill up you own damn cases from scratch!!
got any tips for 11x59R? 50-110 has been back ordered for quite a while
got some 348 but it'll be a little short
Very nice!
Thank you
I wonder in 500 S&W would work. The case length is 1.75 exactly as well apparently. Now the case would have to be widened by a few thousandths to take the bullet but hey thats kinda normal.
I haven't checked dimensions or availability, but did you look at 50-110 brass?
Not yet
Is there a reason you don't use a long brass drop tube?
I’ve found them to be unnecessary.
Thank-You
Thank you
Amazing channel!
Thank you
Did you take the .003 off the rim so it would fit in trimmer or to fit in firearm? Or both. Thank you
Just so it would fit in the trimmer.
@@Everythingblackpowder thank you sir. Great video
@@mudroomgunswithtom thank you
That's Highway Robbery 😮😮😠‼️
No question about it
Nice! Do you like it better than the Snider?
I’m still making up my mind
I keep thinking with every bell ring of 50 gets his wings
50 Alaskan is actually based on the 348 Win case.