OM648 Swirl Flaps Fix | ROUGH IDLE
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- This is an upload i shot last year, i forgot to post it then!
This is a major problem with om648's, and almost ALL E320 CDI's i've worked on has had this exact problem. it causes stalling and misfires on cold startups, and then smooths out after a few seconds of running. Definitely check this on your car!
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Legit Street Cars told me about your channel, glad to be one of your subscribers
Same here... Just purchased my E320 CDI two days ago and couldn't be happier..
I'm in the UK. I had the same problem with my 2009 S320. I had no power, no lights and it wasn't in limp mode but it took an age to build any speed up. My local garage diagnosed the it was the same flaps (swirl flaps). The connecting rod is made out of plastic and it had snapped leaving the flaps partially open. A build up of carbon had caused the flaps to stick which in turn snapped the plastic connecting rod. The local dealer were unable to supply just the plastic rod so I had to purchase a whole new assembly costing £800! The garage charged me £700 for labour. I wish I had known that they could be dealt with like you suggested in the video. £1500 to fix something that didn't need fixing is annoying to say the least. Legit Street Cars told me about your channel. It looks great. Keep up the good work!!!!
DazLocks I believe on the 2009+ om642 v6 the swirl flap assembily actually had sensors for the valves, not just for the motor! So maybe that had somthing to do with it. Maybe it was causing some type of limp mode that wasn't throwing any codes. I've had that happen before with turbo issues, causing limp mode without throwing codes.
What symtomps had the car from this probl ?
Great videos on the OM648. I did this on mine by completely removing the intake manifold and removing the swirl flaps completely since they were extremely carbon clogged and not moving. I tapped the holes that contained the pivoting mechanisms with 1/2-20 thread tap and installed 1" long bolts with sealant and epoxy over it. You can then install a resistor into the connector for the swirl flap motor. Oh and also there are only 6 swirl flaps even though there are 12 'ports' on the intake manifold. The swirl flap could close only 1 of each port on each cylinder so you would end up installing 6 bolts for each of the pivoting mechanism. It's been a year and so far so good.
where are you located and who did for you? I am in NYC, Queens, Nassau Long Island area and cant find anyone that knows to handle this on my OM642
@@sabinmari17 I got my information from reading online and taking apart the aluminum intake manifold. I'm not sure about the OM642 and how it's set up. If you are mechanically inclined these diesels aren't that difficult to work on. I found the OM648 to be well put together and very easy to reassemble. Do a search for "Jeep Cherokee 3.0 Diesel CRD - Swirl Flaps (Butterfly Valves) Removed" or go to ua-cam.com/video/7l8JYhuPhBg/v-deo.html you'll see they took the intake manifold out and aluminum welded the pivoting end shut which is an alternate way of doing it. You would still need a simulator or a resistor to trick the ECU into thinking the swirl motor is still responding. Good luck.
wakawu, thanks a lot for the quick answer-advice. I am not mechanically inclined except reading and understanding about how these things work that’s why I am looking for a mechanic in my area.
@@sabinmari17 You will need a mechanic to remove the intake manifold. You could then take the manifold to a machine shop to have the swirl flaps removed and the pivoting point aluminum welded shut or tapped for bolts. Then the mechanic would be able to reinstall it back together and add a resistor to the original swirl flap motor mechanism. The mechanism can be fully removed and unplugged from the car when all completed. Hope it all works out.
I will do the same thing with swirl flaps on my cdi, and I have 2 of them. 1 car at a time. Is it hard to remove Intake manifold on CDI?
Thanks
Thank you a lot! I had the same symptoms on my om642 v6 engine and I fix it with the 4.7k resistor. I almost changed all my injectors and I would still have the same problem. Great video! 👏👏👏👌
i have the same issue on my om642, i change the actuator swrill flap, the egr valve, my swril flaps r ok, but the car is stil shaking on idle :(
Would be nice to see where you disconnect it at and which way. I looked under there man its tight
it does not have 12 flaps but 6 ... only on channel per zylinder is controlled ... its part of the intake shutoff-system ... it helps to get a better load of air in different ways/driving conditions
I am getting a cold start rough idle and wouldn’t you know it, this part also fell off the servo motor on mine. What you failed to state in the video is which way is it open an which way is it closed? My servo looks to be facing the rear of the car and the flaps fell off facing the front of the car. Are mine stuck open or closed?
My e320 cdi had issues with the butterfly valves getting stuck from carbon buildup which in turn burned out the servo motor, so I removed the intake mani, cleaned all of the carbon from the manifold (there was A LOT of carbon buildup) and removed the butterfly valves completely. Tapped the holes and installed plugs. Been running without a hiccup for 50k miles since. Left the motor plugged in and no codes. Just deleted the EGR valve so I shouldnt have much more carbon build up anymore. I think removing and cleaning/ replacing the intake manifold should be done at least every 150k.
Slate Construction any tricks to getting the intake manifold off?!? I had a hell of a time attempting to take it off earlier this year and ended up giving up
I think it was just a lot of odd combinations of swivels and I think I made a tool or two to assist in getting it off. It was not easy. Once it was off you realize how impossible it is to clean all of the carbon out of it due to its shape and curved runners. I cleaned it the best I could and had it hot tanked at my buddys shop over night and cleaned it out with solvents. It was pretty good but next time I think I'll buy a new one.
Also, I read that this problem with the flaps seizing happens to every car, just a matter of when. Dealer fix is a new manifold which is over $1000 I believe
Slate Construction I have a large ultrasonic cleaner filled with a water based cleaner for exactily that purpose. Haha
@@slateconstruction9400 You're right, same with the 642, usually carbon buildup or massive play in the linkage. 250.000-300.000km usually. Iv'e even seen bent flaps due to this.
Legit street cars steered me here. Thanks for the info!
You should’ve said in the video that that arm IS disconnected and not WAS disconnected because it IS shown disconnected in the VIDEO and that was confusing. WAS implies that it is now connected. The flat arm connects to the triangular servo lever via a ball and socket mechanism, the ball is not visible and is on the bottom side of the servo lever. The socket is on the end of the flat arm.
While the fix was not clearly explained, he did say that he (manually) opened the butterfly valves (which were stuck in closed position) and that as long as the motor is working, it does not need to be connected to (and operating) the butterfly valves (swirl flaps), in order for there to be no error codes.
He said with this fix of opening the butterfly valves (swirl flaps) and leaving the motor disconnected, the car idles smooth and no longer stalls.
You have a new subscriber sir. Well informed video. I have the w211 e270.
but swirl flaps remain closed at idle (for smoother idle and less NOx emissions) and up to 2500rpm to create to create turbulence (better combustion), they only open at low revs under heavy acceleration
Which direction did you move the arm to for the EGR valves to be constantly open? Forth toward the front of the engine or back?
hello, what would be the position of the intake flaps at idle, I suffer from the same problem, I also replaced a lot of parts! misses for 30 seconds then recovers,
Sometimes problems stack up and are "just to big of hassle to deal with", this occurs often in modern life. Back when Sir Harry Ricardo practiced engineering there was time and patience to sort out problems. Sort of like fishing where persistent patience is key. So we have to perhaps go back to those days to solve our impatience problem.
Moving along in time to the 1970-80s back in the days of the 0M617.95 (turbo 5 cylinder), and non-turbo OM617 and OM616 4 cylinder engines these problems did not exist. Certainly, those diesel engines all had Positive Crankcase Ventilation "PCV", and all ran with actually quite a bit of oil being dumped in the inlet manifolds, in a crude form of hydrocarbon emission control. But now why and what has happened to the modern diesel engine about this carboning up problems and sticky swirl flaps... and what are the need for Exhaust Gas Recirculation "EGR" systems? It comes down to emission controls and exhaust gas temperature increases for modern catalyst equipped cars. Though even the last series of the OM617.951, .952 had exhaust trap filters but no catalyst to worry about... and those exhaust filters often clogged up with carbon deposits if not regularly run hard, as Germans tend to do, and dealers recommended all customers worldwide do, to get exhaust gas temperature and flow up to blow out accumulated carbon in the exhaust filter. The trapped smoke stratified the EPA and CARB but occasionally blowing it out pissed of the following drivers.
In the days of the non-turbo little-emission controlled diesels exhaust gas temperature would seldom exceed 700 or maybe 800 degrees F... putting an exhaust filter on those would be asking for big clogging problems with little benefit derived from the effort as the exhaust was high in soot. The turbo versions a little more able to tolerate exhaust filter, but remember the turbo used that heat energy to run as the larger the expansion ratio across the turbine the greater the temperature drop across the turbine... and the large pressure and temperature difference across the turbine the more heat went to work to drive the turbine, its called entropy in engineering terms. Entropy a ratio of and is the energy available in a system for producing useful work compared to the total energy in the system. So the more drop of pressure and temperature across a given design of turbine the more work and more efficient it is. The energy in the exhaust gas was used to drive the turbine and thereby you could inject more fuel into the engine and by pumping more air into the engine the turbine would work harder in a symbiotic system, to a point where entropy of the system limited it. In doing this the heat was higher around let's say 1100 degrees F and the carbon (soot) would burn off better... and well as the higher pressures and temperatures in the combustion camber and cylinders would cause it to burn better... causing reduction in soot... and increasing performance for the driver.
And, in those days exhaust gas recirculation was not used or minimally used. So even if exhaust gas was circulated into the inlet manifold it was not hot enough by time it got there, and there was so little volume of it, in the cases of its use... to heat up and coke oil sloshing around in the bottom of the inlet manifold. Actually, I remember on the OM616 there was a lot of oil finding its way up there, particularly with well worn engines having a lot of blow by from the piston rings, this increasing the pressure differential between the crankcase and inlet manifold, note this is usually low crankcase to inlet pressure differential in diesels compared to gas engines which have manifold vacuum. But the any resultant oil sloshing around, would simply if it got to be too much, run into the ports and be burned in the combustion cycle making for more soot but who cared, and the soot lubricated the valve seats anyway. Because, in those days soot production (carbon particulate emissions) was not a real issue until the mid-1980s. Regulators did not see diesel cars as threats, as there were few diesel cars in the USA, and the Europeans didn't care. So too injection systems could put out big drops of fuel to carbonize in combustion and nobody cared.
Now smog regulators and the government cares, resulting in emission controlled diesels the idea is to not only make a given engine more efficient and powerful to please the customer, as with the use of the turbo-charger but also to reduce emissions of certain combustion products to please the Government, with the use of PCV, EGR, High Pressure Micro-drop producing injectors, and Swirl Flaps Baffles. So all efforts must be made to both increase power to please modern customers, and to reduce all emissions to please the Government. This has resulted in sophisticated engineering of performance and emission systems. Now injection systems put out fine micro drops of fuel to increase surface area per unit mass of the fuel injection drops to burn quicker, hotter, and have less time to coke the core of the drop into soot, all by higher pressures finer nozzle openings and more finely controlled digital electronic. Now we must limit NO2 emissions so temperature of combustion must be reduced, and also free oxygen, so we must burn the inlet charges oxygen completely, so exhaust gas is recirculated into the inlet charge to take up some of the oxygen space to lower burn temperatures and minimize availability of heated free gases oxygen and nitrogen in the charge air, create chemical free radicals to act as reaction accelerants saturating the charge air to promote or catalyze burning of the micro drops, and even use deployable port turbulence baffles promote high swirl rate in the charge air, to increase turbulence in the combustion space to promote mixing of the injected fuel in compression heated charge air (oxidizer) like a modern version of Ricardo's Comet engine to promote efficient burning of fuel and air... reducing slow decomposition of the fuel injected micro-drops of fuel by preventing soot production by coking.
But in doing the later, with higher percentages of complexity and exhaust gas recirculation, any oil making it to the inlet manifold sees hotter exhaust gas streams and volumes, and if the crankcase vent is bringing more oil up due to more flow volume, which is a side detriment of reducing crankcase emissions of hydrocarbons by burning off the gases escaping past the rings, so there we be... more potential of coking oil sloshing in the inlet manifold... which soot from then clogs up the swirl baffles increasing emissions of the engine significantly. So the PCV valve better seal up to reduce the amount of oil getting in the manifold, and the swirl baffles better be working to promote by mixing the burning the working fluid during periods of low power production and ambient temperature. The digital computer controls and its sensors need to work to keep it all in a fine balance. And, it all had better work to not overload the exhaust after treatment catalysts... and not plug or burn them out, or overwhelm the Blue TEC catalyst injection system either.
to loong
anybody can tell where the M55 inlet motor connector is located please?
is it easier to get into it from the bottom of the car?
Thanks
At 4:50, you mention a temperature sensor and point to the front. Which of those is a temperature sensor? I’m getting a fault code for circuit 1 intake temp, and is not the one on the charge intake, that one is se air 2. I can’t find where the circuit 1 IAT temp sensor is.
Can you delete those swirl flaps???
I had an issue when I bought my 2006 E320 CDI with 168K. It would intermittently go into limp mode, almost no acceleration. It would run fine after shutting off and turning on again. Never gave me a code and then it finally did, intake runner motor. My motor worked fine but the valves were carboned up. Took the manifold off and put it in automatic parts washer and it came out like NEW. I did this to another CDI with about the same miles on it. It's not too hard to take the manifold off, but I'm an auto tech so I already had all the proper tools.
Mark Steingraber any trick taking the manifold off of the om648? I had a hell of a time trying to get my manifold off to try and clean it, and ended giving up. A few fasteners I just couldn't get to.
@@MBDieselFreak To be honest it was over a year ago so I don't remember specifics. The only "tricks" I remember were- an 8mm wrench or socket works perfectly on the one size e-torx. Otherwise just wobble extensions and universal joints, etc. Maybe I had to use a ball type hex (Allen) wrench?
The most helpful "trick" was to put 2 studs from manifold to head in place of two bolts to hold the manifold and gasket in place. I believe they are m7x 1.0. Otherwise holding new gasket and manifold in place while trying to start the bolts would be difficult.
The biggest issue I had was getting to the egr cooler bolts!
@@MBDieselFreak Yeah that 3rd bolt on the right side is hidden. I believe I used a long extension (12"-15"?) and socket after getting the one coolant hose off.
Great info thanks. I believe my flap motor isn't opening and closing. I get all boost then after one time it goes into home mode. I have a scanner on it and comes up with a p2015 code. So I was going to do that resistor hack. But what a terrible spot to get connector off. Any tips on unplugging it. I believe they are stuck open bc I get full boost one time then code. I have been running for few weeks in home mode. Runs great no power tho. Will that hurt by running till I get to fix it. Thanks.
I have the same question
Hello. Love your channel. I got same car. Code p2015. With check engine. Does not seem to be affecting power. Leads me to swirl motor. Any suggestions? Thx much
I disconnected the EGR valve cable in my 270cdi and now the car is running LIKE NEW really. No more black smoke, less consumption and more power.
No check engine light ? No loss of power ? How did you trick the engine not to display a check engine light ?
I have a bit older c200cdi w203 with the om611 engine, it stalls randomly from idle when the temperatures below 10 degrees celsius, starts back right away, and you can feel it when it wants to stall while driving along in like 60km/h but as long as you keep your foot on the accerelator it goes.... my flaps are hanging down, so im thinking maybe false air could be the issue but not sure...
Hello , i have a OM642 with the rail that joins the flaps open broke. Do they need locking open ? i can not get to 2 on the left side of the block. I unclipped the swirl flap motor and the 4 flaps i can feel i think i have put in the open position. I realise the proper repair is to get the manifolds off and sort it. but in the meantime if i leave them open will they stay open ? all advice appreciated
Had mine deleted and whole intake system cleaned last summer on om612...nasty carbon build up because of oil vapours and egr plus this flaps really choking diesel engine
Lazar, where are you located and who did for you? I am in NYC, Queens, Nassau Long Island area and cant find anyone that knows to handle this on my OM642?
Even when valves are closed the engine should start and run fine at low rpm where the valves are supposed to be closed. At high rpms you get less power and a puff of black smoke from not enought air in the chamber.
I think I have the same problem in W204. But no error or limp mode appearing .... The engine shakes... All injectors were checked, no problem with them. What else might be?
@wakawu hey there. How can you tell if the swirl flaps are stuck open or stuck closed? Or they are open by default? I wanted to do the resistor mod and don’t want them to be stuck closed or half way closed. I just cleaned my EGR and was pretty clean. I have 95k miles on it. I don’t expect the flaps to be clogged but just want to disable them.
not all 648 engines have swirl motors
Good point. I don't.
My car is throwing a code p2015
My motor does Sean to be moving when car is on could that be it ?
for heaven's sake, which is the open position?
My ML 270 CDI stalls in a very strange condition.. after it reaches operating temp. and i shut it off.. when I try to start it again it starts imediately but it stalls in second.. i have changed the first thing CPS but still the same problm. Could it be my problm related to this video ?
Omg, i am gonna be so pissed of and happy at the same time if this is one of my problems... Have had a s211 om648 standing for over 1.5y now cuzz i dont know whats wrong... Egr is clean, turbo turbine is in mint conditione and No fault codes...
But Black and White smoke when i drive and White when i am standing still....
Conna check oil valves from and to the turbo Allso next but... Clueless
Mine starts fine however and good rmp at idle and power when pushing it in the hills...
Have one idea about oil leak in the turbo, but it does not use oil and does not use coolant so the head gasket should be good, however leaking head should not give any Black smoke per my knowlege doh🤔
Any tips?
My car shaking at idle and reverse
Do you know why?
I have an e280 cdi 3.2 L and when the engine is cold for some km the car misfire
Okay for anyone with a similar issue, I pulled the plastic guard off the egr and it was packed with soot. I MEAN PACKED! So throughly packed that the piston was struggling to move. This is I think my issue though I haven't confirmed, still cleaning it up. Just wanted to quickly point this out and have fellow om648 owners check. It might be a good PM to do when you do oil changes, I will be checking from now on.
As a follow up, Cleaning the soot did not fix my idle problem. OH WELL
@@chriswilliams2652 If the EGR is full of soot then most likely the entire intake manifold is caked on. You can get a replacement intake from Germany that doesn't come with the swirl flaps or you can take it off and clean yours thoroughly. EGR delete would be good for the future.
Thanks for the reply, I have actually taken the intake plenum off and cleaned it with a pressure washer a couple years ago so that wasn't the issue. It ended up being the egr valve being gummed up after all. I've actually had the same problem op had where the swirl flap motor linkage came off. I have lately had a bit of an intermittent stumbled that I'm trying to track down, I think it may be related to the egr or swirl flaps but it's not terrible. I think when it comes to cleaning the intake again, I'll take your advise and buy one with the flaps already gone. God Bless
You have to wire the flaps open otherwise they can get sucked shut under heavy acceleration
My OM648 in my 05 E320 CDI airbox and airfilter melted and caught on fire what would cause that?
don't scare me like that
I've got the OM648 low mileage example under 100 000 and I am thinking of preventing this problem with periodic Sea Foam intake injections to keep these flaps clean and operational. What do you think?
Just read Seafoam doesn't have intake cleaner for diesel. Liqui Moly has.
Be very careful when putting any cleaner through the intake use small blasts of cleaner at a time you don't want to hydro lock the engine
I got an intake manifold from Europe with no flaps, is there a resistor to just disable these? or can it also be tuned out like the egr?
Kanan Stig ... are you anywhere close to NYC and if so do you know any good mechanics to handle the intakes on these diesels?
@@sabinmari17 Sorry no in California
I'd just leave the swirl flap motor installed and plugged up just disconnect the lever that attaches to the swirl flaps. You only need to deal with a resistor if the swirl flap motor goes out. Even then, a used SFM is cheap on ebay, it was the last time I bought one.
What direction is "open" for the butterfly valves?
The front most flap, the plastic lever on the bottom needs to face TOWARDS the front, not the back.
@@MBDieselFreak Thank you for that! on mine, a OM648, the connecting arm moves sluggishly, disconnected from the server motor, but its moving and in the frontmost position, the black plastic lever of the flap is slightly off the 90 degree angle with the sidewall of the engine, pointing towards the front slightly do you think it should move further into that direction? Hoping that my "frontmost" position is ok and not caused by a coke glob inside
@@MBDieselFreak I need same advice. What do you mean front.? I thought the open will be torwad firewall near wind screen.? Or am I wrong completely.? Can you please explain more. Thanks in advance
So does the lever get pushed towards the radiator or towards firewall for swirl flaps to be in the open position???
@@roking8631 you ever found out?
Can we put a resistor on these?
4.7k ohms apparently. I havent tried yet. Pins 1 and 3
@@Vorulon no hex id?
just remove them by software, and take them out :)
Remove the valves completely, they are probably caked in carbon and will fail again or even worse come loose and block the intake
Also delete the egr and get a good catch can
Egr and cooler is actually still clean after 450k miles. Egr still functions correctly.
I'd like to delete the swirl flaps, but removing the intake is a very involved process and some of the intake bolts are almost inaccessible without removing the engine.
The valves themselves arent plastic like in BMW's, they're spot welded stainless. They're not coming off.
@@MBDieselFreak The intake on my 270cdi was mostly plastic, but the flaps were metal. Problem was they had worn the plastic seats out and were flapping about in the breeze, so they could've blocked an air way. I just ripped them out and gave everything a clean while I was there. It was a messy job lol
Good work bud :)
@@bucketsbucket1593
Did you get overboost problems and limp mode? I've cleaned my turbo and egr valve but I get limp mode on max boost. It idles and revs fine. Mine is also the e270 with 180k on the clock.
@@shifty2755 I got a code regarding the stepper motor for the flaps, as it couldn't open and close fully. I decided to go deep and on removing the intake manifold, seen how blocked up it was. Number 5 cylinder was the worst, it was almost entirely blocked.
Once repaired the car had alot more power, and no limp or fault codes since.