Anti Pitchpole Hydrofoil - does it work?
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- Опубліковано 12 лип 2024
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Joe, you really give it everything you've got! Way to go out and put yourself in a hairy situation for the sake of research. Good on you!
I appreciate that! Pretty weird feeling pushing deliberately too hard for the test.
You’re a brave man Joe, I was sitting on the edge of my seat. What a great concept simple yet effective
Thanks 👍
Put one on one hull, and none on the other. Sail on both tacks equally hard and you'll know which bow had the greater tendency to put you over. I think you're going to find that one you put the hull tip with the "preventer" completely under, it's going to dig in and pull that bow even further under.
Yes, when I stuck it in, it certainly threw harder than normal! once it's under, it's going down fast!
Brilliant video Joe. I love the many camera angles when you pitchpole hard. Very funny! Many of us have been wondering about these plates. Guess we don't have to wonder now. Thank's for taking one for the rest of us. High spirits!
Glad it was helpful! Cheers Anders
Very funny indeed! I'm still laughing 🤣
Joe, you're the best! "Woo-hoo!" lol
Classic action, new sails look great, nice one man!
Thanks dude. Shame we missed that race. Next time.
Congrats on 20 thousand subscribers!
Thanks!!!
yes they work great. don't get cocky though because it is still possible. my dad and i were giggling as they saved us from 5 pitch poles in a row and were praising them. then we went over hard on the 6th
Ha! yes, that's exactly what i felt.
Hilarious! The Legs shot , "Woo Hoo!"
Everyone loves a leg shot!
Joe, you make everything look like loads of fun!
To be honest - it is pretty fun!!
Great video as always, super helpful
great fun to get out there and try them
Lots of 'new' sails flying! Really love seeing the cameos of the resort cats!! Murrays must only offer the shirts with specific purchases. It always tells me that it's not available with what I'm purchasing. They are great to deal with and extremely helpful with advice and product choice though. I've rebuilt two Hobies with their help, from rivets to rigging and blocks to comp tips.
Thanks!
Awesome test!!
Thanks!
Thank you for doing this experiment! I have been curious about those hydrofoils.
It was my pleasure!
Love it when a bit of tech works, and you’ve sails to match your shorts, high fashion arrives in Vasiliki !!
So true!
Thank you Joe for taking one for the team! Greetings from Santa Cruz, Cali
Always fun going for a big dive!
13:50 upright line still in place! Well done! In my opinion, the fouls work the way they should. They give you that extra moment to be able to react properly. I would say for someone who learns to sail the Hobie Cat 16 these things are great
Yes, I was pleasantly surprised with how effective this plates are.
PS. Excellent vantage point with the 360 cam on the capsize righting. That was great
Thanks, new camera is amazing!
This is simple and efficient.
Perfect engineering.
works well.
The foil is doing its job. That was a great test! Once that foil is submerged it's going to be much less effective. On its range of operation, it's very effective from what I could see.
Yes definitely.
Hey Man awsome... but be carefull, We need You in one part, good shape and without any kind of injuries, because next time I'll come I want to hit the 26kn with You on the No. 3... Great Job I'm full of respect for what You "risk" for the crowd...
Thanks Max.
Yes, I was worried about the whiplash on that pitchpole as I hit the water pretty hard!
Awesome review - field tested! Dude, you got me all excited to get by boat out! 2 years ago I went out by myself 8-10 times but last year it just sat, and that ain't right! I wish the wind on my lake was more steady so I could get a hull up, but there's just no way. It's a canyon lake, so it's just all over the place in both speed and direction, like it'll suddenly shift 60 degrees for no apparent reason...
Yes, we're very lucky to have such good wind here.
I hope you get back on the water soon!
Cheers
Awesome 👏👏 thanks for the video
My pleasure!
Hold the phone. I saw an extra cat on that beach. Thanks for what you do!!!!!
Yep, we've got two down here now!
Taking one for the team again Joseph, testing out the prod. Awesome vid. I was actually wondering about putting some kind of foil on the dart. I get a bit nervous every time the bow dips under. Did not realize they actually existed.
They definitely push back!!
when you capsize, always swim to the mast end first. Turn it into the wind and it will rarely turn turtle. The wind will help push against the tramp and assist in the righting.
Thanks for the tip!
Great suggestion thank you. Used to sail a Hobie 18 with the SX wings and my nickname was captain pitch pole.😎
Awesome camera footage..
Thanks 👍 New 360 cam is the bad boy
Awesome flip!
🚀
I have a set on my Hobie 14 and love them. 14's can stick the bow really easily! I don't have them on the 16 but it just feels more stable to me when I solo sail it so I haven't needed them yet.
Yes, I can imagine that they'd make a bigger difference on the 14.
Great video as always. Have you realized that after the first tip over when you recovered the boat the rope was hanging on the side😊
Yeah, I knew that i was going swimming again so I thought i'd leave it out - ready. 🤩
Bottom line is that these must work to a point if you think about the hydrodynamics. Trouble is there is a point of immersion where the water flow starts hitting the top of the foil rather than the underneath. At that point they guarantee a faster more violent pitch pole. If you want to avoid violent pitch poles, sail a cat with no top deck, one that is made around two halves joined vertically (just about anything designed this century).
Yes, something like a Dart 18 or F18 won't pitchpole as hard and will be more possible to save if you stick it under.
@@JoyriderTV I'm not thinking Dart 18 or anything with a top deck. Think wave piercing hulls joined vertically like an A class, Dart Hawk, even a Topaz 16 or Dart 16!
Probably the video I mostly felt with you. Really cool stuff! So: do you recommend that tool?
Thanks! yes, I think if you're concerned for the pitchpole it will make it less likely.
Damn Joe you are ripping on that cat😎 Most sailors would test it sitting on the tramp- not joe! He’s out on the trapeze!! This is some good reality TV
Ha! Thanks, this was a fun one to make.
Murray’s water sports has been around over 40 years- practically a landmark here in So California. Second or third generation run. The ultimate Catamaran superstore!
Would rather be on the trap if I’m going ass over tits! I get thrown clear of the boat, I have had the unfortunate experience of hitting the shroud on ejection, or worse back into the mast ( ouch! )…
I put them on mine and they do help
They definitely push back!
Gr8 vid!! Amazing effort to deliberately pitchpole!! I suffered a few pitchpoles myself sailing in Lake Michigan where winds are sudden, unpredictable and the waves big enough to easily thrust the pontoon noses into the rising wave and take the Hobie down! I devised my own device consisting of a line, 2 carabiners and a cinching device -that's all and it works! An extra line and a couple of carabiners secure a trapezing companion as well.
The principle of the device is completely different than the one tested here, which appeared to be ineffective even as you felt it pushing back; it just didn't deliver when it really needed to. My device keeps the skipper and companion from being catapulted forward, keeping them in place on the rails, able to release the main and jib quite calmly, as the pontoons dive into the water bringing the Hobie to a full stop pointing down. Releasing the sheets, removes wind pressure off the sails, allowing the submerged sections of the buoyant pontoons to reverse out of the water, as the skipper + companion remain in place where they were prior to event. The boat simply rights itself, sails fluttering, then trimmed and if you're quick, you're off without having to come off the trapeze!!! No harm, no foul, no pain. Pitchpoling averted, sailing just continues!! It works similarly to a seatbelt!
There is a similar system as standard on the Dart 18 - a lot of the time it is the weight of the crew that causes the pitchpole.
Pitchpoling clipped in would be quite emotional though!
@@JoyriderTV The device Is not clipped onto the person but the trapeze end. Unclipping from the trapeze as per normal would free one from the device simultaneously!! Thanks for your attention to my description.
Used to call them “ chicken lines” back in the 1970’s
@@timothywyand9379 quite the ignorant comment! A friend of mine broke her leg when she was swung out by the trapeze lines and thrown onto the mast! Your "chicken lines" would have saved her from having to wear a cast over the rest of the summer!
What do you call seatbelts?
Ground meat lines?
@@nixl3518 dude, take a chill pill. All I commented was what we called them back in the 1970’s. Never said they were a bad idea.
Go pick a keyboard fight somewhere else.
Joe, another amazing video! I'm wearing my Bean shirts often. Is there any type of quick release mechanism on your trapeze connection? You seem to get free of the trap pretty fast when you go over.
I do have a quick release but I haven't had to use it - thankfully.
Once in the water after touchdown, I just grab the handle and unhook - I think maybe because i've capsized so many times It's so instinctive.
Thanks for representing with the Beans shirt!
Joe, you are nuts:-) Have you done a video about turtling/inverting the boat? Is there anything you can do if you are alone and that happens?
Here you go:
ua-cam.com/video/W5oEd8cSgE4/v-deo.html
So it appears they can prevent many pitchpoles, BUT if it does go over, it's gonna flip harder because there's much more hull in the water at that point, than if the blades weren't up front.
When it goes - 💣🚀
Aye Joe, your amazing dude! Tks for all your content! I'm currently restoring my hb16 probably >1990. Do you think it would be a good addition to the "coques" (in French). Fixed, permanent? (will try to add photos if yt permits it)
Arfff.. 😁 Anyway, it's a hc16 upside down with BEAUTIFUL new gelcoat☺️. Next step is the whole alu structure put back. Should I add that pitch stopper before assembly of this beast?
Aka, I have a very cheap 3d printer, if you have ideas to test haha.
Tk u man! I didn't have much time to sail this summer, your videos always chill me :)
Thanks David.
I'd say that they certainly help, maybe to start with it could be a plan to fit a pair.
You would just need to put them on before raising the mast
Epic. 👍👍
Thanks!
I think the design is good but i think bigger is better!👍
I think bigger might look even more like clown shoes.
Fantastic video! It seems that once the angle of attack of the anti-pitchpole skim boards went negative it made it worse.
I’m considering plowing into big waves, down into the trough in high seas. I wonder if an improvement would be to put some Viking bows on those bad boys.
Thanks for the R&D!
Ha yes, Viking style would certainly look amazing!!!
@@JoyriderTV presumably at those winds you’re willing to trade away a little aerodynamics.
@@ChristianNally if you can push harder then yes.
@@ChristianNally Hi,could you explain better what do you mean in adding some Viking bows? Thanks
@@cristianocardinali3526 Hi! Well... my interpretation of why it still eventually does pitchpole is that when the added, angled plate eventually is tipped below horizontal it actually makes the situation worse and helps flip the boat.
By "viking" bow, I mean that the front of the plate would curve WAY up until it's front face is angled near vertically. The plate would be quite curved.
Like this: www.historyhit.com/app/uploads/2021/07/Viking-Longship.jpg?x63717
Madman!!!
🥫🚀
Wow that is a very Intresting thing there! It really does help but I sail boats with 1 hull.actually that leads me to my next question do you think it would work on a single hull?
In theory, yes I would think so.
@@JoyriderTV ok cool!
If your mono has the same pitchpole tendency as a Hobie 16, it’s designed wrong! (Sabot/Opti comes to mind!).
@@brenthendricks8182 Ohh thanks mate
That foil works way better than i aspected. Unfortunatly they wont fit most ather catamarans i think.
Those don't look like high-tech equipment. I suppose you could get custom ones made for whatever cat you have.
No, just the h16 or h14
It's hard to believe in 50-some years Hobie never thought to implement this simple solution themselves and it took someone from the aftermarket to figure it out.
For sure - a pair of original factory nose cones would have been a great shout.
@@JoyriderTV where do you live that you always have such great sailing wind anyway? Cape Town?
Joe, anyway you could mount those on a Hobie getaway? Thoughts on putting those on a getaway?
I don't think that it would work as you don't have a gunwale.
That was like waiting for a Jack in The Box to blow HAHAHA. Amazing how well they work. Are you going to install them on the other 16s? It seems to be unfair to have just one cat with these on for the 'till you crash buoy race? Actually it would be another great test!
Yes! That's how it was for me.
Rather than fitting to all of our boats, i just removed this pair - to even the pitch!
Hobie Cat should have a statue in your honour! This is huge leverage on races if allowed.
Thanks very much.
Maybe in 50 years a very small one!
I do not think they are race legal.
At 8:58 what camera was filming? Or is this the new 'third person omniscient' GoPro that we've never heard about?
Yes, some trickery going on there with the GoPro Max 360
Ha. Love it. Joe refers to the beach as "the floor". That's a true beach bum! Thumbs ☝
🤩
Hate to think what happens if a crewman gets flung forward and bangs against those nice thin metal blades! On classic motorbikes in England, there used to be a vertical licence plate holder on the front mudguard, became know as "pedestrian slicers" for good reason!
Yes, an extra hazard at the front. Maybe should be called dolphin slicers - to add to the dolphin abuse on offer!
Those add top speed potential to H16 beast #3.
I think maybe they do - i'll be able to push it 17%harder!
Joe, is the Hobie 16 more prone to pitchpoling than other Hobie catamarans? If so can you explain that a little bit?
one for today's Q+A thanks.
Yes, due to the low hull volume in the bows, and the jib. It is more prone to pitchpoling. I habe heard the 14 ( which has even less hull volume than the 16 is more prone to pitchpoling), but i have never sailed one.
I would also add the shape of the hull The banana shaped does not help matters. Also because it has an overhang I think that puts more surface area of hull underneath the water as soon as it begins to go. That’s why when the Leeward hull starts to bury you are about to become toast.
@@jamescurtin4412 It does make the 14 / 16 more pitchpole prone due to increased rocker.
loving it SO exciting - larger anti pitch poles would damage the hull? after all it is a lot of pressure at three points right?
Yes, perhaps too much pressure and mybey too much drag in certain situations.
The older boats without so much mast rake pitchpoles much easier. These plates where developed back in those days.
Very effective!
Funtastic pitch pole, or catapult, things not to do more than once lol
🤩
Awwwsoooome
🤩
Need to be larger to provide lift and keep bows up
For sure!
correct terminology would be bow planes wouldn't it, given the hobie 16 is a 5050 surface/submarine boat? Reputedly evolved out of a failed skunk works submarine project😁
Yes, agreed!!
Who is the ships cat?
That would be Pip, she's a good girl.
Cat on a Cat was 2funny 😆
🤩
So, I made a set. We are beginner H16 sailors and have pitchpoled a couple of times. Clearly we need to work on the skills but I think the hydroplanes give a bit more margin. Here is our video, and you can see them work at about 1:15.
ua-cam.com/video/WQXUIY0gJz8/v-deo.html
I'm a believer! We were not even on a reach, and were pretty stable with respect to wind, heading, and just overall - then the bow dipped.
Yeah, i just watched it, great job making your own, they look exactly the same and seem top work perfectly.
so when you pitch there is no turning back
Yeah- once it starts, it’s inevitable