Super Vegito This is toryama, he is both a great idea maker But a horrible story writer, that is why he needs to be monitored, checked and corrected, this is the formula to a perfect show But unfortunately toei have not being doing so, they have not got someone to fact-check the story
So Yamoshi while fighting a battle along side his 5 comrades turned into a super saiyan. Yamoshi later died in that same battle along with his comrades but his soul stayed and did not pass on to the other world. While his soul was still in this realm it came across 6 other saiyans. These 6 saiyans found the soul to be a heavenly deity and praised the soul of Yamoshi. While praising the soul aka ritual the soul became a ssg. By becoming a ssg this soul became a true deity to the saiyans. That is why in beerus’ dream the ssg has no body but a red aura cuz it’s only a soul with no physical body. +Geekdom please read this and if it doesn’t make since I’d love to have a more In-depth chat with you
like your theory but major problem is he said that Yamoshi soul was searching for 6 saiyans with good hearts,thats the main problem how the fuck he knew about the ritual,your story makes more sense
DJOLE860 I don’t think Yamoshi knew about the ritual to become a god, more like if you have enough saiyans with enough of the S cells mentioned earlier, focus their “energy” in a religious manner onto another saiyan in this case Yamoshi’s spirit, it creates a ssg
He said that Yamoshi had 5 friends and that they rebelled against the other saiyans,so that tells me that they were fighting other saiyans when Yamoshi was outnumbered and transformed 1st time to a SS,and when he was finally killed his warrior spirit wanted to fight on thus did not entered the afterlife and stayed searching for 6 saiyans with good hearts so that they can continue his fight. When he found the 6 saiyans they thought that the spirit was god or something and in a way started worshipping it,thus giving it ki,energy,genki...and the spirit became so strong therefore ssg was born.That would explain the first phrase 'they are the same person'
The SSG ritual is probably channeling the spirit and power of Yamoshi in one way or the other, we probably won't know finer details of if Yamoshi did become SSG before he die or after until it's presented in the anime or manga, since Toriyama seems to be answering off the cuffs here and the details might be missing or even changed when implemented later. A theory that I wanted to ask though, is that might Yamoshi and his companions be the originators of the S-Cells, at least for the U7 saiyans? Toriyama went with a biological explanation with the recent introduction of the S-Cells, but it doesn't make much sense to me that saiyans, being a violent species as a whole as far back as we know, would evolve a biological mechanism that prospers better in a gentle environment/heart as the S-Cells stated would be. Yamoshi, being described as a rare saiyan back then who was both righteous, powerful, and the first one to awake to the SSJ, might be the first saiyan to be born with these S-Cells? Of course this theory doesn't explain how the U6 saiyans got their S-Cells, they might have evolved it through their calmer society later on, or Toriyama thought S-Cells should exist as far back as the saiyans existed, it's just something I'm wondering to explain the contradictory requirements of the S-Cells.
Short Story: talking with Toriyama Reporter: "Mr. Toriyama! What was the name of that sayajin again?" Toriyama:"......Yoshi" Reporter: "so....it's a namekian?" Toriyama:."........." Reporter:"........" Toriyama:".....I'm sorry what were we talking about?" Le End
Sebastian Rodriguez but how does someone discredit the authors own word on *their* series as an “asspull”? He’s known for making things up on the fly and I don’t understand how this is any different ( besides apparently it’s cool to hate on everything from super)
What makes the most sense to me is what is said in that interview. Yamoshi became the first Super Saiyan, but fell in battle. His spirit lived on, seeking out pure hearted warriors. His spirit is what made Goku so strong as a God. The ritual likely called Yamoshi's spirit into Goku. It says above that Yamoshi was SEEKING the Super Saiyan God. As in it didn't exist yet. And Beerus had a Prophetic Dream, which means he was seeing the future, not the past. Thus, Goku was the first Super Saiyan God.
Authors do this all the time. The newest explanation of something replaces the old explanation. It's called a retcon. For those unfamiliar with the word a retcon is a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events. It really isn't all the confusing. A lot if fans probably prefers the old explanations but Toriyama is well within his right to change things as he sees fit.
The only thing here that is actually retconned is the Saibamen thing, which it's not like that was ever really, or ever will be, talked about in source material an7ways so who cares?
BlasttotheMax The Second I agree! It's up to each individual who views these changes to decide if they think the changes were a good idea or not. I get why some fans would hate these changes. All I was saying in my original comment is that this kind of thing is common and shouldn't be all that confusing or be considered a "Toriyama forgot" situation. Even if he had forgot what he did was still a retcon by definition.
If you watch Star Wars and you know everything about the midichlorians. You should know everything about the S- Cells it’s pretty much the same thing A Jedi can be born with the force and some can’t A saiyan can have S cells to become a super saiyan Some saiyans can’t become super saiyans without the S-Cells It’s the same thing
I read the Yamoshi thing more along the lines of him having a legendary spirit, not that he actually ever attained the form like Goku did. He was pushed into a corner and refused to give up against impossible odds to protect his friends. After his death, his spirit wandered in search of the 6 pure-hearted saiyans, like him and his friends but never found them, until Goku and co performed the ritual. The ritual summoned Yamoshi's godly spirit inside of Goku. So maybe it is something along the lines of Yamoshi's spirit and ki found a resting place inside of Goku's pure heart and granted him the power to take on the impossible odds he couldn't. So Goku is the first to actually attain the super saiyan god transformation.
That's how I read it too. So that being said, this red form we see goku in, the God form, that's a unique one-of-a-kind form that cannot be duplicated, even by Vegeta, since it required the spirit of Yamoshi, so is that all correct?
that wouldnt explain such an increase in power though. If he never attained the form, his strongest was only SSJ, a minimum power one at that. That would have practically no impact on goku during battle of gods.
I don't think it's a straight up power thing, it's a spiritual thing. Yamoshi may not have had the strength of a god, but he had the fighting spirit of one, and also a pure heart, which we already know is a big thing in the dragonball afterlife. Like when Goku first became super Saiyan it was through his emotions, his anger unlocking a power hidden deep within him. Goku already has the potential to become stronger, feeling Yamoshi's sprit and determination not to give up and protect his friends, that just pushes Goku and helps him to harness the god ki into a new form and push beyond his limits in the face of unbeatable odds (Beerus). That's just my interpretation anyway.
I'd imagine in Toriyama's head it's something like this; Yamoshi was the Legendary super saiyan, and died in his battle. The fact that the saiyans idolized him, like how vegata did originally, might have turned Yamoshi into a type of god (acting as a kind of belief maybe). Having become a 'super saiyan' god his spirit could leave the afterlife. The namekian elder notices yamoshi, records his story down and his tale is passed on. Yamoshi doesn't have a body however, so maybe him interfering with mortals might be a problem. Anyway, my point is the ritual reenacts what yamoshi did and allows Yamoshi to give his energy 'ki' to a saiyan. And since yamoshi is a god... 'god ki'. Welp... that's what i can come up with from what we've been told.
Geekdom confuses lots of folks with his own misconcepts of db interviews. Especially when he ties the concept of asspull agaisnt good story telling. Nothing in the interview conflicted wth anything which was told in the manga. Before even writing super , toriyama stated that he had to go back and re-read his manga to insure that there were no contradictions in his new material. As for geekdom trying to contradict his facts base on information from db guideboks. The guidebooks themselves dont reveal the notes taken from toriyama, which its up to debate on what is real canon in the guidebook and what is head canon. I find the explanation simple. From the interview, its obvious Yamoshi was fighting against other saiyans when it was stated that his story was tied to long ago before planet vegeta was established. Moving on, he states that Yamoshi started a rebellion with a few saiyan followers. That a BIG clue which states that he was rebelling against the other saiyans who lived on the planet. A big truth to this is when Toriyama basically ties Yamoshi's rightoues nature in conflcit with the violent nature of the other saiyans. Meaning when he started a rebellion, it was against the other saiyans who were violent. Its obvious he was fighting the other saiyans and battle of gods movies, states this via shenlong's story of ssj god. Moving on to Yahmoshi's story, Out of anger , Yamoshi became a ssj which shocked the other saiyans who were in shock of his malevolent fighting sytle which is what sparked the legend about the ssj being violent and cold blooded. Toriyama goes on to say that Yamoshi wore himself out because he was new to the ssj form and got defeated. This contradicts nothing from the manga or anime to an extent, as when vegeta was telling the story, it was greatly implied that the first ssj did fight against other saiyans but was destoryed because he didn't know how to control his power. Which fits in well with toriyama's interview. As for the ssj god ritual, its greatly implied that Yamoshi created the ssj god ritual after he became a wondering spirit in search of good saiyans. His spirit must have connected with other rightous saiyans and then informed them about a ritual they could perfrom which would allow for them to summon his power within them allowing them to become a ssj god. Thus the essence of Yamoshi is infused with a saiyan who performs the god ritual and thus they become a ssj god. In a since, Yamoshi was the first ssj god, as the entity of ssj god was created through his power. This also ties in with toriyama stated how saiyans with gentle spirits and S cells have a greater chance at becoming a ssj and perhaps ssj god. Yamoshi must have figured this was the concept behind the ssj god transformation and thus went on to look for other saiyan's with rightoues hearts. I tie ssj god ritual to how the flash in dc comics became the source of the speed force and thus was able to connect its power to other speedsters. In yamaoshi's case, he became tied with the god ritual which allowed other saiyans tap into the power of becoming a ssj god through him. Which is why in battle of gods, you see yamaoshi's silhouettes when goku and co. are performing the god ritual.
xcmet Geekdom has a good UA-cam voice, the voice of an instructor. He could do much better things than this. You're right, though, he missed all of these obvious things somehow... It's not Toriyama that is primarily at fault - it's the people who rely on their own interpretations outside of context that are causing most of the "canon" mess.
Assumptions, Implications, basically you wrote an essay with head canon. He said what he said in the interview and he contradicted himself. No, I don't expect anyone to remember a line from 20 years ago, but a contradiction is a contradiction.
his ghost was looking for 6 righteous-hearted saiyans who were seeking a new savior, and thus Yamoshi came to them and became the first super sayian god. Which is why there is a ceremony to become it now
What if the Universe 7 Saiyans were originally from Universe 6 and were moved there by Yamoshi's followers and the Namekians to separate them from the 'Good' Saiyans (ancestors of Cabba and Kefla) in the form of a Dragon Ball Wish? I could see Champa being open to getting rid of a troublesome group and dropping them in the Universe of Beerus while he is asleep. That would mean there was always only one Planet Sadala, with the current King and Prince Vegeta both being descendants of Yamoshi.
Dragon Ball Super this is of course if Beerus and Champa were G.o.D during the initial conflict that split the saiyans from their original planet. We don't have an exact time of the separation or when they became Hakaioshin. Fun theory though.
Champa and Beerus are said to be 200 million years old, so most likely they were since the story of Yamoshi was only a thousand years ago. This is why Goku and Vegeta are so shocking to all these Kaiōshin and Hakaishin when it comes to power, because they're only 40/50 years old while they have been around way longer. Just imagine Goku or Vegeta with just a million years of fighting under their belt. Crazy.
@Geekdom101 I think Toriyama meant to say that Yamoshi was the first SSJ and that his spirit lingered in the world of the livings in order to find another kind-hearted Saiyan and help them achieve god-like powers. TL;DR: Yamoshi was the first SSJ and deivsed the ritual to become SSG.
At this point Toriyama should stop bring up new info from old DB Lore. He keeps contradicting what he's previously said and it's just making it harder from fans to understand which info of the series they should believe in. So confusing😖
Theory: yamoshi became a super sayain and died vs his enemies. being so pure of heart he got to come back for a day like goku and as he was losing again he had his friends give him power and discovered ssg on accident Another theory: goku and vegeta are both descendants of yamoshi
I think yamoshi was looking for 6 because his group consisted of 6 and he was essentially going to pass down the mantle to them to finish what he and his friends could not.
My head canon was that the Super Saiyan God and His five comrades fought in some type of Civil War on Planet Sadal. The Super Saiyan God fell in battle once his transformation ran out. Then one of his comrades, enraged by the loss of his friend, turned into the first Super Saiyan that ended up obliterating planet sadal. The only survivors being those who left the plabet before it was destroyed. They passed on the legend of both but the legend of the Super Saiyan was probably more prominent because we know the Saiyans value strength. And considering the Super Saiyan God fell in battle, they probably didn't think he was worth mentioning. Shenron knew about the Super Saiyan God via the Namekian Book of Legend.
The translations don't say Yamoshi was the original Super Saiyan God, but that he became the first Super Saiyan in history after he and his 5 friends got cornered in a rebelliion against other saiyans on Planet Sadal. After he died, his spirit descended to six righteous hearted saiyans. Thus, the ritual involved 5 righteous hearted saiyans and a 6th saiyan in the middle to become SSG. How that explains why there is suddenly God ki is beyond me but it has something to do with Yamoshi's spirit and that a pure hearted soul is more calm and closer to God ki. Having this calm ki from 5 different saiyans course through a single person, somehow amplifies their ki into a higher grade, becoming God ki. Even though Vegeta wasn't completely righteous hearted after Namek, he gained more S-Cells in his body after his interactions with Goku and the gang; his relationship with Bulma. Then he just used anger as a trigger to reach SSJ.
I really hate ass pull writing and shit made up on the fly. Contradictions just make the story and continuity convoluted. How hard can it be to plan out and spend a bit more time coming up something great instead of mediocre or just good. The s cells BS doesn't even make sense.
awais ahmed I can't think of written piece of entertainment without contradictions at all... in fact, I can only think of one history book that has no contradictions. People make mistakes and change their minds. We're an imperfect people.
Eh he’s human, remembering the details of his creation doesn’t seem to be his strong suit. He might not care about the show really just money, but people make mistakes, though he seems to always do this kind of thing and digs a deeper hole every time that fans try to dig out of
Bro shenron already confirmed at the beginning of super that the super sayian god doesnt exist yet even if he was dead shenron could have still bring him back from the dead and that is if he was a ssg but he wasnt so this is total bullshit its just his goddamn spirit reincarnated in Goku's body. There you have your explenation no need for a 10min vid man...
Ultra Instinct Goku he said "one does not yet exist" meaning hes well aware that theres a ritual involved. The original saiyan god didnt have time to adapt too it. Goku did. The original saiyan god was likely faaaaaaaar weaker then goku.
There is plenty of reason for a 10 minute video or even longer really. Geekdom101 did over think some parts of the analysis, but it is nothing big. The exact confusion that we don't know if Yamoshi himself had achieved Super Saiyan God or not. Soban, the 1 year time limit only applied to Kami's Dragonballs not Dende's. Frieza was dead for more than 10 years and was brought back to life in multiple pieces by them. We don't know if Dende's have a time limit, but if it does it is longer than 10 years.
I don't understand how people think that all this stuff is an asspull. how can this be considered asspull when he created the series? God: Hmm, I'll say you evolved from monkeys!😀 Humans: ASSPULL
That's not how logic, and well structured narratives work. He contradicts himself. He changes to what a plot seems fit. It's cheap and lazy. Can he do it? Yes. Does it change the fact that it is an asspull, and his blatant mistakes and inconsistencies can be traced back? No.
Austin Baker-Carnley Umm.... because Akira Toriyama is notorious for on the fly ass pulls? It's like you don't even know the actual author of the show. The man forgets, and when asked instead of saying he doesn't know, he LITERALLY on the fly makes something up with no premeditation on the matter. I AM FINE WITH THIS. I AM NOT FINE WITH FANS PRETENDING THAT WHAT HE SAYS IS LEGIT, WHEN IT CONTRADICTS 20YEARS OF PLOT AND STORY TELLING. IF he came out and said Goku isn't actually a saiyan and was just picked up off a random planet from Braddock you fan boys would be trying to make up some head cannon to make it work. For christ sakes, the man is a gag managa writter and makes things up on the fly, espeacilly now, he has no idea what he is talking about. Give him no attention when he does these outlandish ass pulls.
Daniel Burroughs dude, if you dislike the writing style why watch the show? Go watch something else. all I'm saying is that it can't really be considered an asspull because he created the show. it's like physicists (or whatever physicist plural is) saying that gravity is an asspull. Its here to stay so just deal with it.
I think you can find a video on geekdo101's channel or just rewatch the earlier episodes of dbz on saiyan origins and you are right toriyama might not be the best explainer when it come to telling us everthing on dbz but he does know how to recon things in the past and pull a bunch of ass pulls and call me tolo next time so you don't have to worry about spelling my whole full name
Yo, GEEKDOM i have a discrepancy about the end of Z thats KILLING ME. In short, after the 10 year timeskip, Bulma visits Goku and says its been FIVE years since they saw eachother, HOW is this possible if we currently only have about 4 more years in the timeskip left?? Thnx
Yeah, it could be true. I've also been thinking that what if Yamoshi is actually a supervillain? Something that we never expect him to be the good guy? Of course, for now, the Z-Fighters, Beerus and others been thinking like "Hey you know what, long ago there is a warrior who transformed into an original Super Saiyan God and bla bla bla but they didn't know if he's actually a good guy or bad guy. Because an original Super Saiyan suppose to be a ruthless and killing machine just like Broly. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The Legend of the SSG should have stayed just that, a legend. We didn't need any of thise borderline unnecssary information, that makes little sense, because Toriyama can't remember what he said/wrote in the past and doesn't even bother looking it up.
When has Kishimoto retconed Naruto? What happened was new information and lore was presented that we didn’t know earlier that change what we as the viewer thought or assumed originally about the story. It’s like saying Toriyama “retconed” Goku into being an alien when we never knew what he was until it was revealed. And Toriyama has definitely retconed his story multiple times before too. Piccolo was suppose to be a demon, potara was suppose to be permanent, Android 19 and 20 where originally the androids that destroyed Trunks future.
This is more than likely going to need to be the next movie. Anyone else love early Saturday @Geekdom101 videos to get them pumped for the episode tonight? Plus Gohan Shines tonight!
People swear that toriyama is pulling stuff out of his ass bruh its his story he can come up with whatever he wants I don't have a problem with the s-cells story or anything else I feel like it's cool that the story of becoming a super sayian is more than just being angry this community is whats confusing not toriyama
Yamoshi got killed after becoming Super Saiyan. Then his spirit wandered in search of 6 Saiyans to create Super Saiyan God, which as we know from Battle of Gods was succesful. Saiyans probably told beside eachother both stories and after certain amount of time those stories probably started to mix with eachother. Freeza most likely knew about Super Saiyan God because that was the version of the story that he knew and there most likely were more than one as is true for pretty much all legends.
Eh, maybe Yamoshi was the first NORMAL super saiyan. Then his spirit somehow knew about SSG and beerus sensed how strong it was, then Goku became the first SSG.
TARZAN HEDGEPETH Yeah, the only confusing part is how his spirit was able to know about/create SSG and how beerus was able to sense it. But it makes sense.
ass pull. how does he reexplain what was already explained in the anime. clearly he trying to retcon stuff like he did with fusion. the explanation was good before this
The potara werent retconned. In the boo saga, we were told, that theyre supposed to be permanent, but then vegito defuses anyway. Even in universe everyone was like "WTF? that wasnt supposed to happen, maybe the air inside boo is bad?". even back then, the fusion between goku and vegeta wasnt permanent, like kibitoshin and elder witchkai, but noone knew why. Super didnt retcon that part, it just explains what happened back then, that vegito was the only potara fusion that isnt part kai.
First of all he is the creator, if something needs trimming he has all the right to do it. Second when was fusion retconned?? And please answer if you really got any answers. You people just enjoy complaining, then end up showing all your ignorance
What do you think of the Grand Priest stating that they will not allow a wish to restore the omniverse? I could see Cabba telling Champa not to worry cause if Universe 7 wins they’ll be saved-and then the Grand Priest will be like No. If this happened, then it would be up to Zeno or a possible god above Zeno to restore the verse
It's not that I don't understand the SCells, i totally understand it. The point is, is that it is LAME! There is no better comparison than the Phantom Menace midichlorians explanation. It is pretty much a direct rip off
It's funny because I immediately thought about the midichlorians when I read about the S cells too. Like oh boy....Super is the prequel trilogy that makes you rethink the sequel trilogy, Z in this case entirely. For better or worse lol
YEP! Called IT! I think this is the only thing I will say is non canon, because it’s either non canon and we can laugh about it, or it is canon and we can cry about how lazy and far down toryama can go in terms of writing
YEP! Called IT! well, how else is it supposed to work? ya know how much anger and stress it took for Goku to transform? it would be impossible to recreate those emotions on purpose and on spot every time he needed to transform
I actually kinda like it. It more or less proves that not all saiyans can do it. While most may in theory have the potential for it? The s-cell explanation is a rip off of midichlorians, but also the x-gene for mutants in x-men. midicholorians are in all lifeforms in star wars, some having more than others of course. The x-gene is exclusive to mutants in x-men (marvel). Usually triggered by a traumatic episode manifesting the mutants power. So w/ the s-cells, only saiyans possess, but need a traumatic event/high battle power etc, to mutate into full blown s-cells needed for ssj.
Oh shit Geekdom101 might say it..my theory that I have I posted it on another video and on Facebook and I said..what if Goku is Yamoshi’s reincarnation? Yeah I know I’m reaching with that but what if
I think that Toriyama has Split Personality Disorder and both sides have different story lines. He's not forgetting, he's recalling from two different memory banks lol
They literally put us in a situation where we want to be happy about universe 6 being erased but at the same time we can't because of hit and cabba and champa
If I wanna try to make sense of Yamoshi, I’d say his spirit was looking for a representation of his friends and himself. He 5 to make the ring around the sixth. And he would give all his power to the 6th, the new savior, which would make the God. That way he’s both the original super Saiyan and super Saiyan God without being the original Super Saiyan God.
Yamoshi is the SSG power itself. When five righteous hearted Saiyans do the ritual (since finding five righteous Saiyans is rare) they channel their own power to summon the spirit of Yamoshi and imbue part of his power into the chosen Saiyan: Goku.
One thing we have to remember is the translation from Japanese to English. 6 righteous Saiyans are in need to unlock the power of the SSG right? So maybe it’s that Yamoshi went SS and then his 5 friends gave him all of their energy when they were backed into a corner. He went SSG and then ultimately lost. His spirit/energy continued on waiting for the next time 6 purehearted saiyans came together to unlock the power. Another thing we have to remember is that this is Akira Toriyama and he forgot Bluma’s hair color halfway through Dragon Ball. Until inked in the manga it Toei animates it it’s nothing but fluff.
The information in this interview doesn't change anything that was stated in the manga or the show. If your childhood hangs on the balance of whether Saibamen were found or created, wow. Just wow.
William Rees it's not even just saibamen. Everyone knows Dragonball super is full of plot holes. And it really makes it hard to maintain interest in such an iconic show...my main point here is that the show HAS WAAAY TOO MANY RIDICULOUS PLOT HOLES AND TORIYAMA ISN'T MAKING IT ANY BETTER.
I'd argue it works like this: Yamoshi becomes a super saiyan and dies in battle. Birth of the legendary super saiyan. His spirit wanders, looking for six righteous warriors. Possibly this is because his original rebellion was him and five other saiyans. He's looking to start over. Through a ritual, his spirit is able to grant someone the power of SSJ God. That's why he both is and isn't the first super saiyan god. Or at least that's how I see it.
i dont understand the confusion... Yamoshi fought with his 5 righteous friends, went SSJ the first time; then his friends poured their energy into him making him the first SSG. The only reason we didnt have it in DB or DBZ ( well, Toriyama didnt invent it there) is that we never had 6 sayjans alive to pour their energy into 1
I feel like maybe Toyama Is implying that (The power of super Saiyan God ) Is Yamoshi's spirit. If you think about it. Super saiyan God is something they originally had to (Summon)
What I guess Toriyama is trying to say is THAT YAMOSHI knew about the ceremony of becoming a SSJG and someone else was the ORIGINAL SSJG. And BEERUS Actually sensed Yamoshi's spirit and dreamt what SSJG would look like and craved to fight him. And his knowledge was recorded by the Namekian in the book of legends.
I think that what he meant was Yamoshi became SS1 and fought but was overwhelmed, he eventually lost and died when his power wore out hence the SS legend began because of Yamoshi. Yamoshi’s spirit in the other world probably wandered in search of 6 pure hearted Saiyans like himself and once he found them he performed the ritual (probably heard of it or something similar via someone in other world, he was a pure spirit so like Goku, he’d have kept his body) upon performing the ritual he became SSG and probably went back to the world of the living to exact revenge on the Saiyans. He fought the Saiyans as described by Shenron but eventually his power ran out and when it ran out he most likely disappeared back to the Other world hence why he vanished after the SSG power ran out. Afterwards the evil Saiyans once again took over and inhabited Planet Vegeta. I feel that’s what the story is, Yamoshi was the first Super Saiyan when he was Alive and the first SSG after he died and his legend about how he led a revolt died and then fought once more back from the dead to stop the evil Saiyans transcended him and found its way to Namek where an elder wrote that in the book of legends and the Saiyans remembered Yamoshi as the first and only person to ascend to SS1 and also as SSG thus when inducted into colds army, the legend was passed to king cold and Frieza as well.
I don't know it almost sounds like Yamoshi became a Super Saiyan with his 5 other comrades, died a super Saiyan, and his soul has been wandering restlessly searching the universe for another group of 6 riteous Saiyan's. Because of Beerus and the Elder Namekian sensing his spirit, was able to divine the ritual needed to summon his spirit, to lend his power to one worthy, and in need, and Goku in the gang were the first ones to do so, putting Yamoshis soul to rest
Geekdom. Yamoshi was worshipped as a “GOD” he didn’t have “God Ki”. The legendary super saiyan is most likely what kale and broly are. Remember in super vegeta stated kale must have the original super saiyan form. Legendary super saiyan = super saiyan God Goku super saiyan is most likely a mutated form. Now God Ki is something totally different. God Ki is a perfected state. That’s why going super saiyan made the perfected state blue. That’s just my take from it.
Could be that they didn’t know about the ritual, but were just grieving over their (half) dead friend, put their hand on him, and without ‘m knowing they transferred power to him or sum like that... and during them powering up the ritual we saw in bog got initiated idk
I think this Yamoshi guy got super sayain before he died. Then after he died his restless spirit wanted more and then he found 6 sayains like him(not super sayains, I mean good hearted saying) and then they conducted the ritual (I'm assuming that it just came to his mind somehow) and that's how it happened
In the video you did about this, he did go super saiyan first after his friends died. He "destroyed" himself looking for his friends and becoming a god is what id bet on
I'm not going to deny that Toriyama makes things up on the fly, but I don't really think any of these things are contradictions. I could totally see Saiyans finding the Saibamen somewhere and then figuring out how to "produce" them. So all of this stuff makes perfect sense to me. I do agree the Yamoshi story is a little confusing, but I'm hoping he's being vague on purpose so there's a potential for an OVA of some kind in the future.
Toriyama is the biggest troll ever
Even bigger than Kubo
Like he gives a fuck who is the first SSG
If you ask him now he probably already forgot
That is why I love that guy. He doesn't take it too serious.
Kubo and his ass pulls with Ichigo...
Super Vegito This is toryama, he is both a great idea maker
But a horrible story writer, that is why he needs to be monitored, checked and corrected, this is the formula to a perfect show
But unfortunately toei have not being doing so, they have not got someone to fact-check the story
He would said something different every time you ask him
City Guard What he needs are helpers/handlers. He's too old for his own good.
There's no confusion though, we all know that Yamoshi is Monaka's Uncle
BBBB Lies, GT Goten is Yamoshi from another dimension
Yamoshi = the farmer with the shotgun when trained by Mr. Popo.
Yeap Facts
Monaka is the descendent of the original Super Saiyan God!
Yamoshi is clearly Yamcha. Duh.
What if there are 2 Toriyamas?! LIKE ZENO!
Austin Baker-Carnley It's funny because my friend suggested the same thing.
lol
Toriyama - Toyotaro?
And there both shit.
Austin Baker-Carnley there are you ass. Tori-yama and Tori-taro. Now let thet marinate in your brain
So Yamoshi while fighting a battle along side his 5 comrades turned into a super saiyan. Yamoshi later died in that same battle along with his comrades but his soul stayed and did not pass on to the other world. While his soul was still in this realm it came across 6 other saiyans. These 6 saiyans found the soul to be a heavenly deity and praised the soul of Yamoshi. While praising the soul aka ritual the soul became a ssg. By becoming a ssg this soul became a true deity to the saiyans. That is why in beerus’ dream the ssg has no body but a red aura cuz it’s only a soul with no physical body. +Geekdom please read this and if it doesn’t make since I’d love to have a more In-depth chat with you
like your theory but major problem is he said that Yamoshi soul was searching for 6 saiyans with good hearts,thats the main problem how the fuck he knew about the ritual,your story makes more sense
DJOLE860 I don’t think Yamoshi knew about the ritual to become a god, more like if you have enough saiyans with enough of the S cells mentioned earlier, focus their “energy” in a religious manner onto another saiyan in this case Yamoshi’s spirit, it creates a ssg
He said that Yamoshi had 5 friends and that they rebelled against the other saiyans,so that tells me that they were fighting other saiyans when Yamoshi was outnumbered and transformed 1st time to a SS,and when he was finally killed his warrior spirit wanted to fight on thus did not entered the afterlife and stayed searching for 6 saiyans with good hearts so that they can continue his fight. When he found the 6 saiyans they thought that the spirit was god or something and in a way started worshipping it,thus giving it ki,energy,genki...and the spirit became so strong therefore ssg was born.That would explain the first phrase 'they are the same person'
The SSG ritual is probably channeling the spirit and power of Yamoshi in one way or the other, we probably won't know finer details of if Yamoshi did become SSG before he die or after until it's presented in the anime or manga, since Toriyama seems to be answering off the cuffs here and the details might be missing or even changed when implemented later.
A theory that I wanted to ask though, is that might Yamoshi and his companions be the originators of the S-Cells, at least for the U7 saiyans? Toriyama went with a biological explanation with the recent introduction of the S-Cells, but it doesn't make much sense to me that saiyans, being a violent species as a whole as far back as we know, would evolve a biological mechanism that prospers better in a gentle environment/heart as the S-Cells stated would be. Yamoshi, being described as a rare saiyan back then who was both righteous, powerful, and the first one to awake to the SSJ, might be the first saiyan to be born with these S-Cells?
Of course this theory doesn't explain how the U6 saiyans got their S-Cells, they might have evolved it through their calmer society later on, or Toriyama thought S-Cells should exist as far back as the saiyans existed, it's just something I'm wondering to explain the contradictory requirements of the S-Cells.
RequiemSSG Thank you! Geekdom is being dumb asf to not realise that.
Yamoshi The Original Super Saiyan God Movie 2018! This is what I Speculate Akira Toriyama is Hinting to
Yamcha + Roshi = Yamoshi
Yeah yeah we all heard that one before lol
No wonder roshi went from 180 pl to one shotting ganos and competing against frost
AustinLong1639 do u ever take a break
Son Goku what u mean?
AustinLong1639 ahem
Max Trolling
Toriyama is approaching George Lucas levels.
Short Story: talking with Toriyama
Reporter: "Mr. Toriyama! What was the name of that sayajin again?"
Toriyama:"......Yoshi"
Reporter: "so....it's a namekian?"
Toriyama:."........."
Reporter:"........"
Toriyama:".....I'm sorry what were we talking about?"
Le End
People call it ass-pulls from Toriyama, but I have seen many of his statements/explanations making it into Super.
WSBZ01 I see that. I agree with the asspulls explanation. However, Toriyama does give a lot of info for this being made on the go.
I am starting to think that these interviews are planned in advance because again, Toriyama does give a lot info for this to be really improvised.
WSBZ01 I think Toriyama sits down one day, gets the questions beforehand and then create explanations.
Sebastian Rodriguez but how does someone discredit the authors own word on *their* series as an “asspull”? He’s known for making things up on the fly and I don’t understand how this is any different ( besides apparently it’s cool to hate on everything from super)
Chad Preston yea it's the cool thing to do. People cannot get over their nostalgia for dbz I suppose
What makes the most sense to me is what is said in that interview. Yamoshi became the first Super Saiyan, but fell in battle. His spirit lived on, seeking out pure hearted warriors. His spirit is what made Goku so strong as a God. The ritual likely called Yamoshi's spirit into Goku. It says above that Yamoshi was SEEKING the Super Saiyan God. As in it didn't exist yet. And Beerus had a Prophetic Dream, which means he was seeing the future, not the past. Thus, Goku was the first Super Saiyan God.
Authors do this all the time. The newest explanation of something replaces the old explanation. It's called a retcon. For those unfamiliar with the word a retcon is a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events. It really isn't all the confusing. A lot if fans probably prefers the old explanations but Toriyama is well within his right to change things as he sees fit.
Roberto Robles mate did you just try to explain what a retcon is to the dragonball comunity? You must be new
Roberto Robles Sure Toriyama has the right to retcon, but that doesn't make it a good idea.
The only thing here that is actually retconned is the Saibamen thing, which it's not like that was ever really, or ever will be, talked about in source material an7ways so who cares?
BlasttotheMax The Second I agree! It's up to each individual who views these changes to decide if they think the changes were a good idea or not. I get why some fans would hate these changes. All I was saying in my original comment is that this kind of thing is common and shouldn't be all that confusing or be considered a "Toriyama forgot" situation. Even if he had forgot what he did was still a retcon by definition.
maybe, but what if it doesn't make sense, even as a retcon?
If you watch Star Wars and you know everything about the midichlorians. You should know everything about the S- Cells it’s pretty much the same thing
A Jedi can be born with the force and some can’t
A saiyan can have S cells to become a super saiyan
Some saiyans can’t become super saiyans without the S-Cells
It’s the same thing
I read the Yamoshi thing more along the lines of him having a legendary spirit, not that he actually ever attained the form like Goku did.
He was pushed into a corner and refused to give up against impossible odds to protect his friends. After his death, his spirit wandered in search of the 6 pure-hearted saiyans, like him and his friends but never found them, until Goku and co performed the ritual. The ritual summoned Yamoshi's godly spirit inside of Goku.
So maybe it is something along the lines of Yamoshi's spirit and ki found a resting place inside of Goku's pure heart and granted him the power to take on the impossible odds he couldn't. So Goku is the first to actually attain the super saiyan god transformation.
A P That's how I interpret it
That's how I read it too. So that being said, this red form we see goku in, the God form, that's a unique one-of-a-kind form that cannot be duplicated, even by Vegeta, since it required the spirit of Yamoshi, so is that all correct?
But then we have the manga with SSG Vegeta
that wouldnt explain such an increase in power though. If he never attained the form, his strongest was only SSJ, a minimum power one at that. That would have practically no impact on goku during battle of gods.
I don't think it's a straight up power thing, it's a spiritual thing. Yamoshi may not have had the strength of a god, but he had the fighting spirit of one, and also a pure heart, which we already know is a big thing in the dragonball afterlife.
Like when Goku first became super Saiyan it was through his emotions, his anger unlocking a power hidden deep within him.
Goku already has the potential to become stronger, feeling Yamoshi's sprit and determination not to give up and protect his friends, that just pushes Goku and helps him to harness the god ki into a new form and push beyond his limits in the face of unbeatable odds (Beerus).
That's just my interpretation anyway.
I'd imagine in Toriyama's head it's something like this; Yamoshi was the Legendary super saiyan, and died in his battle. The fact that the saiyans idolized him, like how vegata did originally, might have turned Yamoshi into a type of god (acting as a kind of belief maybe). Having become a 'super saiyan' god his spirit could leave the afterlife. The namekian elder notices yamoshi, records his story down and his tale is passed on. Yamoshi doesn't have a body however, so maybe him interfering with mortals might be a problem. Anyway, my point is the ritual reenacts what yamoshi did and allows Yamoshi to give his energy 'ki' to a saiyan. And since yamoshi is a god... 'god ki'.
Welp... that's what i can come up with from what we've been told.
Wow toriyama just throw a bait and all fans are like how?why?when? LOL
Fictional Fan yeah but we gotta have it make sense AHHHHH
Three possibilities:
1. You don't get it/too stupid/translation problems
2. Toriyama is trolling
3. Toriyama is ill
Geekdom confuses lots of folks with his own misconcepts of db interviews. Especially when he ties the concept of asspull agaisnt good story telling. Nothing in the interview conflicted wth anything which was told in the manga. Before even writing super , toriyama stated that he had to go back and re-read his manga to insure that there were no contradictions in his new material.
As for geekdom trying to contradict his facts base on information from db guideboks. The guidebooks themselves dont reveal the notes taken from toriyama, which its up to debate on what is real canon in the guidebook and what is head canon.
I find the explanation simple. From the interview, its obvious Yamoshi was fighting against other saiyans when it was stated that his story was tied to long ago before planet vegeta was established. Moving on, he states that Yamoshi started a rebellion with a few saiyan followers. That a BIG clue which states that he was rebelling against the other saiyans who lived on the planet.
A big truth to this is when Toriyama basically ties Yamoshi's rightoues nature in conflcit with the violent nature of the other saiyans. Meaning when he started a rebellion, it was against the other saiyans who were violent. Its obvious he was fighting the other saiyans and battle of gods movies, states this via shenlong's story of ssj god.
Moving on to Yahmoshi's story, Out of anger , Yamoshi became a ssj which shocked the other saiyans who were in shock of his malevolent fighting sytle which is what sparked the legend about the ssj being violent and cold blooded. Toriyama goes on to say that Yamoshi wore himself out because he was new to the ssj form and got defeated. This contradicts nothing from the manga or anime to an extent, as when vegeta was telling the story, it was greatly implied that the first ssj did fight against other saiyans but was destoryed because he didn't know how to control his power. Which fits in well with toriyama's interview.
As for the ssj god ritual, its greatly implied that Yamoshi created the ssj god ritual after he became a wondering spirit in search of good saiyans. His spirit must have connected with other rightous saiyans and then informed them about a ritual they could perfrom which would allow for them to summon his power within them allowing them to become a ssj god. Thus the essence of Yamoshi is infused with a saiyan who performs the god ritual and thus they become a ssj god. In a since, Yamoshi was the first ssj god, as the entity of ssj god was created through his power.
This also ties in with toriyama stated how saiyans with gentle spirits and S cells have a greater chance at becoming a ssj and perhaps ssj god. Yamoshi must have figured this was the concept behind the ssj god transformation and thus went on to look for other saiyan's with rightoues hearts.
I tie ssj god ritual to how the flash in dc comics became the source of the speed force and thus was able to connect its power to other speedsters. In yamaoshi's case, he became tied with the god ritual which allowed other saiyans tap into the power of becoming a ssj god through him. Which is why in battle of gods, you see yamaoshi's silhouettes when goku and co. are performing the god ritual.
xcmet Geekdom has a good UA-cam voice, the voice of an instructor. He could do much better things than this. You're right, though, he missed all of these obvious things somehow... It's not Toriyama that is primarily at fault - it's the people who rely on their own interpretations outside of context that are causing most of the "canon" mess.
Assumptions, Implications, basically you wrote an essay with head canon. He said what he said in the interview and he contradicted himself. No, I don't expect anyone to remember a line from 20 years ago, but a contradiction is a contradiction.
Best Dragon ball content on UA-cam, great work geekdom
The truth is now out
Yamoshi is the real monaka
Who agrees that Nico robin is hotter than nami?
Edit: just to be clear Nami is awesome, but Robin is just Perfect 👍
agreed
Eustass Law hell yeah
Agreed bro. Its the same problem with Akeno and Rias from High school DxD
Robin is bae. I gotta get caught up on one piece. The toy arc threw me off.
Umm what r u taking abt
Always hyped on Saturday for the new episode
Love your video geekdom
your*
KoKi same thing u put down....
WAR COMMANDER ARMY CANNOT BE DEFEATED its edited now
hquebrown ass*
Who dont
So i guess hit will do his suprise Attack after zeno erases universe 6 right? :')
his ghost was looking for 6 righteous-hearted saiyans who were seeking a new savior, and thus Yamoshi came to them and became the first super sayian god. Which is why there is a ceremony to become it now
What if the Universe 7 Saiyans were originally from Universe 6 and were moved there by Yamoshi's followers and the Namekians to separate them from the 'Good' Saiyans (ancestors of Cabba and Kefla) in the form of a Dragon Ball Wish? I could see Champa being open to getting rid of a troublesome group and dropping them in the Universe of Beerus while he is asleep. That would mean there was always only one Planet Sadala, with the current King and Prince Vegeta both being descendants of Yamoshi.
Dragon Ball Super this is of course if Beerus and Champa were G.o.D during the initial conflict that split the saiyans from their original planet. We don't have an exact time of the separation or when they became Hakaioshin. Fun theory though.
Champa and Beerus are said to be 200 million years old, so most likely they were since the story of Yamoshi was only a thousand years ago. This is why Goku and Vegeta are so shocking to all these Kaiōshin and Hakaishin when it comes to power, because they're only 40/50 years old while they have been around way longer. Just imagine Goku or Vegeta with just a million years of fighting under their belt. Crazy.
@Geekdom101 I think Toriyama meant to say that Yamoshi was the first SSJ and that his spirit lingered in the world of the livings in order to find another kind-hearted Saiyan and help them achieve god-like powers.
TL;DR: Yamoshi was the first SSJ and deivsed the ritual to become SSG.
Geekdom the type of guy to pull out of a girl when Super spoilers are out
At this point Toriyama should stop bring up new info from old DB Lore. He keeps contradicting what he's previously said and it's just making it harder from fans to understand which info of the series they should believe in. So confusing😖
I have ultraCLICKstinct with 101 videos
WISH YAMOSHI BACK TO LIFE!
Toriyama being like Kanye “ you ain’t got the answers “
this is hinted as the new arc most likely lol
Theory: yamoshi became a super sayain and died vs his enemies. being so pure of heart he got to come back for a day like goku and as he was losing again he had his friends give him power and discovered ssg on accident
Another theory: goku and vegeta are both descendants of yamoshi
the 2nd theory is like in naruto. sasuke and naruto are descendants of hagoromo :D taht would be stupid to make the same move as kishimoto
lNer0xl D.O.N you’re right it is
I smashed the thumbs up because I know you elaborate well and clarify these things. Thanks again great video
Y A M O S H I
A M Y O S H I
Yoshi first SSG confirmed
I think yamoshi was looking for 6 because his group consisted of 6 and he was essentially going to pass down the mantle to them to finish what he and his friends could not.
Im so excited i have a state championship football game and after we win im going to relax with some t.o.p
LeibyBean Good Luck!
The Firefan thanks😀
LeibyBean good luck man!
Let us know how it is to get that W
Thanks guys😆
screw it, multiverse confirmed.
Don't let this distract you from the fact that dr rota is going erase both zenos
An Indian girl on a comment section of a video related to anime ?? Man that's rare
Christopher Marshall WTF?
Nothing ,not many indian girls watch anime so it was kinda cool and stuff nothing else
My head canon was that the Super Saiyan God and His five comrades fought in some type of Civil War on Planet Sadal. The Super Saiyan God fell in battle once his transformation ran out. Then one of his comrades, enraged by the loss of his friend, turned into the first Super Saiyan that ended up obliterating planet sadal. The only survivors being those who left the plabet before it was destroyed. They passed on the legend of both but the legend of the Super Saiyan was probably more prominent because we know the Saiyans value strength. And considering the Super Saiyan God fell in battle, they probably didn't think he was worth mentioning. Shenron knew about the Super Saiyan God via the Namekian Book of Legend.
The translations don't say Yamoshi was the original Super Saiyan God, but that he became the first Super Saiyan in history after he and his 5 friends got cornered in a rebelliion against other saiyans on Planet Sadal. After he died, his spirit descended to six righteous hearted saiyans. Thus, the ritual involved 5 righteous hearted saiyans and a 6th saiyan in the middle to become SSG. How that explains why there is suddenly God ki is beyond me but it has something to do with Yamoshi's spirit and that a pure hearted soul is more calm and closer to God ki. Having this calm ki from 5 different saiyans course through a single person, somehow amplifies their ki into a higher grade, becoming God ki. Even though Vegeta wasn't completely righteous hearted after Namek, he gained more S-Cells in his body after his interactions with Goku and the gang; his relationship with Bulma. Then he just used anger as a trigger to reach SSJ.
Geekdom great vid my man... Best DB DBZ DBS channel on the tube
I really hate ass pull writing and shit made up on the fly. Contradictions just make the story and continuity convoluted.
How hard can it be to plan out and spend a bit more time coming up something great instead of mediocre or just good.
The s cells BS doesn't even make sense.
awais ahmed I can't think of written piece of entertainment without contradictions at all... in fact, I can only think of one history book that has no contradictions. People make mistakes and change their minds. We're an imperfect people.
If there's no arc related to Yamoshi it's going to really trigger my "S Cells"
Did you just call him sensei? Dude, you've been watching way too much hentai.
What if yamoshi is goku (Great xUnown) grandfather giving goku his spirit to beat jiren???
Maybe king Vegeta was Yamoshi's partner once
And I bet he was one step behind Yamoshi everytime 😂
Soufiane Tijdit You're going to trigger someone lol
I like it!
Soufiane Tijdit Yamoshi is way older than King Vegeta though
Rip universe 6 tonight
Do you think U6 has their own version of super saiyan god?
yes
So far, strictly canon, Kale would be U6's version of a SSG. U7 doesn't have a berserker/LSSJ form.
Eh he’s human, remembering the details of his creation doesn’t seem to be his strong suit. He might not care about the show really just money, but people make mistakes, though he seems to always do this kind of thing and digs a deeper hole every time that fans try to dig out of
Bro shenron already confirmed at the beginning of super that the super sayian god doesnt exist yet even if he was dead shenron could have still bring him back from the dead and that is if he was a ssg but he wasnt so this is total bullshit its just his goddamn spirit reincarnated in Goku's body. There you have your explenation no need for a 10min vid man...
Ultra Instinct Goku he said "one does not yet exist" meaning hes well aware that theres a ritual involved. The original saiyan god didnt have time to adapt too it. Goku did. The original saiyan god was likely faaaaaaaar weaker then goku.
Need a body to be revived
There is plenty of reason for a 10 minute video or even longer really. Geekdom101 did over think some parts of the analysis, but it is nothing big. The exact confusion that we don't know if Yamoshi himself had achieved Super Saiyan God or not.
Soban, the 1 year time limit only applied to Kami's Dragonballs not Dende's. Frieza was dead for more than 10 years and was brought back to life in multiple pieces by them. We don't know if Dende's have a time limit, but if it does it is longer than 10 years.
Ultra Instinct Goku ^ do you know anything about Dragon Ball as a whole? Like everything you said was how I thought DB worked when I was 10...
Making stuff up is probably how any author makes a fictional story
I don't understand how people think that all this stuff is an asspull. how can this be considered asspull when he created the series?
God: Hmm, I'll say you evolved from monkeys!😀
Humans: ASSPULL
Were not even gonna start to discuss religion in a DBZ related post that in itself is gonna create many asspulls for no reason lol.
That's not how logic, and well structured narratives work.
He contradicts himself. He changes to what a plot seems fit. It's cheap and lazy.
Can he do it? Yes. Does it change the fact that it is an asspull, and his blatant mistakes and inconsistencies can be traced back? No.
Austin Baker-Carnley
Umm.... because Akira Toriyama is notorious for on the fly ass pulls?
It's like you don't even know the actual author of the show.
The man forgets, and when asked instead of saying he doesn't know, he LITERALLY on the fly makes something up with no premeditation on the matter.
I AM FINE WITH THIS.
I AM NOT FINE WITH FANS PRETENDING THAT WHAT HE SAYS IS LEGIT, WHEN IT CONTRADICTS 20YEARS OF PLOT AND STORY TELLING.
IF he came out and said Goku isn't actually a saiyan and was just picked up off a random planet from Braddock you fan boys would be trying to make up some head cannon to make it work.
For christ sakes, the man is a gag managa writter and makes things up on the fly, espeacilly now, he has no idea what he is talking about.
Give him no attention when he does these outlandish ass pulls.
Austin Baker-Carnley good one that made me laugh
Daniel Burroughs dude, if you dislike the writing style why watch the show? Go watch something else. all I'm saying is that it can't really be considered an asspull because he created the show. it's like physicists (or whatever physicist plural is) saying that gravity is an asspull. Its here to stay so just deal with it.
Toriyama needs editors for his interviews.
In my opion the s cells that make a lot of sense and differs from human biology 😊😊
lauoletolo Iulio Toriyama should just give us the origins of saiyans and then make things up, this has become messy
I think you can find a video on geekdo101's channel or just rewatch the earlier episodes of dbz on saiyan origins and you are right toriyama might not be the best explainer when it come to telling us everthing on dbz but he does know how to recon things in the past and pull a bunch of ass pulls and call me tolo next time so you don't have to worry about spelling my whole full name
Yo, GEEKDOM i have a discrepancy about the end of Z thats KILLING ME. In short, after the 10 year timeskip, Bulma visits Goku and says its been FIVE years since they saw eachother, HOW is this possible if we currently only have about 4 more years in the timeskip left?? Thnx
Yamoshi could be the far ancestor of Vegeta.
runza123 Ancestor
Oh yeah my bad. I already edit it. Thanks for realizing my mistake. XD
It would be cool is he was the ancestor of goku, since he was righteous
Yeah, it could be true. I've also been thinking that what if Yamoshi is actually a supervillain? Something that we never expect him to be the good guy? Of course, for now, the Z-Fighters, Beerus and others been thinking like "Hey you know what, long ago there is a warrior who transformed into an original Super Saiyan God and bla bla bla but they didn't know if he's actually a good guy or bad guy. Because an original Super Saiyan suppose to be a ruthless and killing machine just like Broly. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Broly isn't part of the continuum ?
Its ya boi geekdom
A new subject to milk
The Legend of the SSG should have stayed just that, a legend.
We didn't need any of thise borderline unnecssary information, that makes little sense, because Toriyama can't remember what he said/wrote in the past and doesn't even bother looking it up.
He could really learn a few things from Kishimoto
Batman The Dark Knight you mean the guy the repeatedlt retcons his story?
When has Kishimoto retconed Naruto? What happened was new information and lore was presented that we didn’t know earlier that change what we as the viewer thought or assumed originally about the story. It’s like saying Toriyama “retconed” Goku into being an alien when we never knew what he was until it was revealed. And Toriyama has definitely retconed his story multiple times before too. Piccolo was suppose to be a demon, potara was suppose to be permanent, Android 19 and 20 where originally the androids that destroyed Trunks future.
This is more than likely going to need to be the next movie. Anyone else love early Saturday @Geekdom101 videos to get them pumped for the episode tonight? Plus Gohan Shines tonight!
People swear that toriyama is pulling stuff out of his ass bruh its his story he can come up with whatever he wants I don't have a problem with the s-cells story or anything else I feel like it's cool that the story of becoming a super sayian is more than just being angry this community is whats confusing not toriyama
Yamoshi got killed after becoming Super Saiyan. Then his spirit wandered in search of 6 Saiyans to create Super Saiyan God, which as we know from Battle of Gods was succesful. Saiyans probably told beside eachother both stories and after certain amount of time those stories probably started to mix with eachother. Freeza most likely knew about Super Saiyan God because that was the version of the story that he knew and there most likely were more than one as is true for pretty much all legends.
Eh, maybe Yamoshi was the first NORMAL super saiyan. Then his spirit somehow knew about SSG and beerus sensed how strong it was, then Goku became the first SSG.
Reckfullies That's what Akira said. It is that simple. lol
TARZAN HEDGEPETH Yeah, the only confusing part is how his spirit was able to know about/create SSG and how beerus was able to sense it. But it makes sense.
I'll never complain about Toriyama talking about Dragonball. Keep up the great coverage Geekdom!
ass pull. how does he reexplain what was already explained in the anime. clearly he trying to retcon stuff like he did with fusion. the explanation was good before this
zero if that's his goal tell me... Why?
The potara werent retconned. In the boo saga, we were told, that theyre supposed to be permanent, but then vegito defuses anyway. Even in universe everyone was like "WTF? that wasnt supposed to happen, maybe the air inside boo is bad?". even back then, the fusion between goku and vegeta wasnt permanent, like kibitoshin and elder witchkai, but noone knew why.
Super didnt retcon that part, it just explains what happened back then, that vegito was the only potara fusion that isnt part kai.
First of all he is the creator, if something needs trimming he has all the right to do it. Second when was fusion retconned?? And please answer if you really got any answers. You people just enjoy complaining, then end up showing all your ignorance
proclarushtaonasat true. I keep telling people that potara fusion was not a retconned.
What do you think of the Grand Priest stating that they will not allow a wish to restore the omniverse? I could see Cabba telling Champa not to worry cause if Universe 7 wins they’ll be saved-and then the Grand Priest will be like No.
If this happened, then it would be up to Zeno or a possible god above Zeno to restore the verse
It's not that I don't understand the SCells, i totally understand it. The point is, is that it is LAME! There is no better comparison than the Phantom Menace midichlorians explanation. It is pretty much a direct rip off
It's funny because I immediately thought about the midichlorians when I read about the S cells too. Like oh boy....Super is the prequel trilogy that makes you rethink the sequel trilogy, Z in this case entirely. For better or worse lol
YEP! Called IT! I think this is the only thing I will say is non canon, because it’s either non canon and we can laugh about it, or it is canon and we can cry about how lazy and far down toryama can go in terms of writing
YEP! Called IT! well, how else is it supposed to work? ya know how much anger and stress it took for Goku to transform? it would be impossible to recreate those emotions on purpose and on spot every time he needed to transform
City Guard You can't say it's non canon. It came out of Toriyama's mouth.
I actually kinda like it. It more or less proves that not all saiyans can do it. While most may in theory have the potential for it? The s-cell explanation is a rip off of midichlorians, but also the x-gene for mutants in x-men.
midicholorians are in all lifeforms in star wars, some having more than others of course.
The x-gene is exclusive to mutants in x-men (marvel). Usually triggered by a traumatic episode manifesting the mutants power.
So w/ the s-cells, only saiyans possess, but need a traumatic event/high battle power etc, to mutate into full blown s-cells needed for ssj.
I mostly watch geekdom at 2x speed. It makes it easier
Typical Toriyama story.............first troll in manga creators
Thanks for the content Geekdom. Now I have the same questions as you and I'm itching for a legitimate answer. Thanks and have a good day!
Oh shit Geekdom101 might say it..my theory that I have I posted it on another video and on Facebook and I said..what if Goku is Yamoshi’s reincarnation? Yeah I know I’m reaching with that but what if
dan shirley what if the ritual is bringing yamoshis ghost to give you the god power
DarkBear shit that’s just as good that would be crazy that’s actually they can really run with both of these ideas
I think that Toriyama has Split Personality Disorder and both sides have different story lines. He's not forgetting, he's recalling from two different memory banks lol
Don't let this distract u from the fact that both ribrianne and caulifla are gonna be erased the next episode
PARTY TIME GUYS!!!
Betcha just caulifla
Aaaaand champa, hit, cabba and the 2 namekians..... Its a double edged sword really :(
DarkBear you ruined it
It’s a good, but bad day to be destroyed
Seeing caulifla getting erased is going to be hype
They literally put us in a situation where we want to be happy about universe 6 being erased but at the same time we can't because of hit and cabba and champa
If I wanna try to make sense of Yamoshi, I’d say his spirit was looking for a representation of his friends and himself. He 5 to make the ring around the sixth. And he would give all his power to the 6th, the new savior, which would make the God. That way he’s both the original super Saiyan and super Saiyan God without being the original Super Saiyan God.
69th like
I knew today would be a good day...
Yamoshi is the SSG power itself. When five righteous hearted Saiyans do the ritual (since finding five righteous Saiyans is rare) they channel their own power to summon the spirit of Yamoshi and imbue part of his power into the chosen Saiyan: Goku.
Ok
Very interesting
One thing we have to remember is the translation from Japanese to English. 6 righteous Saiyans are in need to unlock the power of the SSG right? So maybe it’s that Yamoshi went SS and then his 5 friends gave him all of their energy when they were backed into a corner. He went SSG and then ultimately lost. His spirit/energy continued on waiting for the next time 6 purehearted saiyans came together to unlock the power. Another thing we have to remember is that this is Akira Toriyama and he forgot Bluma’s hair color halfway through Dragon Ball. Until inked in the manga it Toei animates it it’s nothing but fluff.
I think toriyama should stop. At this point he's killing my child hood because nothings making sense anymore
Its not like hes changing any facts lol, hes just giving more explanations that dont affect past knowledge whatsoever
The information in this interview doesn't change anything that was stated in the manga or the show. If your childhood hangs on the balance of whether Saibamen were found or created, wow. Just wow.
William Rees it's not even just saibamen. Everyone knows Dragonball super is full of plot holes. And it really makes it hard to maintain interest in such an iconic show...my main point here is that the show HAS WAAAY TOO MANY RIDICULOUS PLOT HOLES AND TORIYAMA ISN'T MAKING IT ANY BETTER.
how are his comments adding to the plotholes though?
Sacredproz..if you watched Geekdomes vid just now he explains it all.
Yamoshi is actually goku's mother
Original Double S G ... like the sound of that
I'd argue it works like this:
Yamoshi becomes a super saiyan and dies in battle. Birth of the legendary super saiyan.
His spirit wanders, looking for six righteous warriors. Possibly this is because his original rebellion was him and five other saiyans. He's looking to start over. Through a ritual, his spirit is able to grant someone the power of SSJ God.
That's why he both is and isn't the first super saiyan god. Or at least that's how I see it.
Lol I was going to look up some gameplay on the new god of war but when I seen this I said I gotta watch my boy geekdom first
i dont understand the confusion... Yamoshi fought with his 5 righteous friends, went SSJ the first time; then his friends poured their energy into him making him the first SSG. The only reason we didnt have it in DB or DBZ ( well, Toriyama didnt invent it there) is that we never had 6 sayjans alive to pour their energy into 1
I just gotta say, How Awesome is Herms?!?!
Rowdy Roddy Piper “JUST WHEN YOU THINK YOU HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS I CHANGE THE QUESTIONS”
I feel like maybe Toyama Is implying that (The power of super Saiyan God ) Is Yamoshi's spirit. If you think about it. Super saiyan God is something they originally had to (Summon)
What I guess Toriyama is trying to say is THAT YAMOSHI knew about the ceremony of becoming a SSJG and someone else was the ORIGINAL SSJG. And BEERUS Actually sensed Yamoshi's spirit and dreamt what SSJG would look like and craved to fight him. And his knowledge was recorded by the Namekian in the book of legends.
I think that what he meant was Yamoshi became SS1 and fought but was overwhelmed, he eventually lost and died when his power wore out hence the SS legend began because of Yamoshi. Yamoshi’s spirit in the other world probably wandered in search of 6 pure hearted Saiyans like himself and once he found them he performed the ritual (probably heard of it or something similar via someone in other world, he was a pure spirit so like Goku, he’d have kept his body) upon performing the ritual he became SSG and probably went back to the world of the living to exact revenge on the Saiyans.
He fought the Saiyans as described by Shenron but eventually his power ran out and when it ran out he most likely disappeared back to the Other world hence why he vanished after the SSG power ran out. Afterwards the evil Saiyans once again took over and inhabited Planet Vegeta.
I feel that’s what the story is, Yamoshi was the first Super Saiyan when he was Alive and the first SSG after he died and his legend about how he led a revolt died and then fought once more back from the dead to stop the evil Saiyans transcended him and found its way to Namek where an elder wrote that in the book of legends and the Saiyans remembered Yamoshi as the first and only person to ascend to SS1 and also as SSG thus when inducted into colds army, the legend was passed to king cold and Frieza as well.
Can you do a video on how powerful Yukari from the Touhou series is?
I don't know it almost sounds like Yamoshi became a Super Saiyan with his 5 other comrades, died a super Saiyan, and his soul has been wandering restlessly searching the universe for another group of 6 riteous Saiyan's. Because of Beerus and the Elder Namekian sensing his spirit, was able to divine the ritual needed to summon his spirit, to lend his power to one worthy, and in need, and Goku in the gang were the first ones to do so, putting Yamoshis soul to rest
Geekdom. Yamoshi was worshipped as a “GOD” he didn’t have “God Ki”.
The legendary super saiyan is most likely what kale and broly are. Remember in super vegeta stated kale must have the original super saiyan form.
Legendary super saiyan = super saiyan God
Goku super saiyan is most likely a mutated form.
Now God Ki is something totally different.
God Ki is a perfected state. That’s why going super saiyan made the perfected state blue.
That’s just my take from it.
Yamoshi = Yamcha + Roshi
Well played Toriyama
Could be that they didn’t know about the ritual, but were just grieving over their (half) dead friend, put their hand on him, and without ‘m knowing they transferred power to him or sum like that... and during them powering up the ritual we saw in bog got initiated idk
Love the Roddy Piper referance, and Toriyama's the ultimate troll lol
I think this Yamoshi guy got super sayain before he died. Then after he died his restless spirit wanted more and then he found 6 sayains like him(not super sayains, I mean good hearted saying) and then they conducted the ritual (I'm assuming that it just came to his mind somehow) and that's how it happened
In the video you did about this, he did go super saiyan first after his friends died. He "destroyed" himself looking for his friends and becoming a god is what id bet on
I'm not going to deny that Toriyama makes things up on the fly, but I don't really think any of these things are contradictions. I could totally see Saiyans finding the Saibamen somewhere and then figuring out how to "produce" them. So all of this stuff makes perfect sense to me. I do agree the Yamoshi story is a little confusing, but I'm hoping he's being vague on purpose so there's a potential for an OVA of some kind in the future.
A background story is an asspull too? These "fans" criticize lack of explanation and criticize the explanation when they get one.