Art Detectives Unveil The Hidden Stories In Four Paintings | Fake Or Fortune Series 4 | Perspective
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- Опубліковано 4 тра 2024
- Journalist Fiona Bruce teams up with art dealer Philip Mould -- dubbed "the art detective" -- to investigate remarkable stories beneath the surface of paintings. From Paris and Amsterdam to Cape Town, the banks of the Nile, and New York, the team employs old-fashioned detective skills and the latest forensic testing to reveal compelling tales of lost masterpieces.
Lost Lowry: 00:00:00
Renoir & Monet: 00:57:39
Italian Master Mystery: 01:54:55
Churchill's Lost Paintings: 02:51:14
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#Painting #Art #History
They should be taken to court. If the evidence is there it is there. Their prejudice is the problem,
A judge with no expertise, couldn’t make those decisions. There has to be some level of connoisseurship. But they need to open those connoisseurd to criticism.
New Series of Fake or Fortune starting around August/September 2023 on BBC.
Only available in the UK. I couldn't even find an old episode to buy online anywhere. Can't use VPN either.
@@ChristaFreeI watched them all o. UA-cam!
Awesome
Thank u!
I tried searching for it on YT Tv which includes BBC America but it looks like they don’t air it here in the US. Bummer.
If there had been a photograph of Monet & Renoir painting at that scene with this painting on Renoir's easel partially finished I have no doubt that the photograph would not have been enough for Wildensteins simply because their competitor authenticated the painting.
My opinion is their verdict does more harm to their reputation than the painting.
I’m
@@elliotsilverstone8808 No. It was written correctly.
@@elliotsilverstone8808 ?
I agree with others, this is disgusting...it certainly is proving just how petty snobs can be.😠
To me, the 2 most important takeaways of the Renoir are:
1. That *both* the painting *and* the dossier *must* be kept on display *together* for everyone to see, continuing the validation you found.
2. That *ALL* of the documentation, the compete dossier, be scanned, photographed and stored *together with* a scan and photograph of the painting, then placed someplace safe, waiting for the day when the *next* set of "experts" decides it is, indeed, a true Renoir.
Sigh. 😥
I think that if Renoir could come back and state that he did, indeed, paint that boat scene, the Wildensteins would yelled "No you didn't!!".
@@sueferris3685 Pretty much, It's a running theme in the show, on the first season there was a Monet. Everyone agreed it was a Monet, guess who say it wasn't and as such, the painting was worthless :)
They don't accept "new" paintings.
Some unknown artists are better painted than well-known artists. 😢. They should have unknown artists museum too.
So that they may be found, i agree. I bought a large size H. Sōiaissengeier. He was a German painter and i LOVE his work. (or her as I dont know what the H stands for) ..i just saw one start at an auction, another large one of a seaside community...the auctioneer started it at $1 !! And it had 7 people bidding on it. It only got up to $22. A shame because that artist's paintings are Beautiful. Edit: i just saw one h. sōiaissengeier sold on eBay for $299.00, thats getting closer to what i think the art is worth. They are stunning paintings and i wish we onew more about this German artist.
I whole heartedly agree. There should be recognition to the forgers. The really talented and artistic ones. They are incredible in their own right.
I've always felt the word "pretentious" was the most applicable to the "art" world.
There are so many things I wish I had become during my life--because I tried and loved many things--, but one of those things would have been restorer of paintings. Color makes me swoon. Even the names of the colors are magical.
This makes me want to go back and take art restoration classes & more art history. Maybe I'll do that in the fall of my life now. I just love the history of it all.
Hateful aspect of the art world, the clashing egos. The utter lack of humility by the Wildenstein experts is infuriating. Disgusting. Something has to be changed. How can such an important decision come down to an egotistic battle between two houses? It seems petty from the outside, but in this case it's so damaging, and there is no doubt that the Wildenstein decision is based on the need to right at all costs. In this case, at great cost.
I think the two houses should be invited to donate ten percent of their proceeds of sales to the old house that lady was trying to raise funds to restore..
Send them a bill. . . For restoration costs . . 😂😂😂
There's a reason that pride is one of the deadly sins. Absolute shame really. The ego is an amazing thing
Shame on you Wildenstein! For the sake of your ego, you are corrupting art! You are not experts - you are just liars! I would never trust anything you have verified in your catalog. You should be shut down as experts in the art field. Hire my 10 year old child instead. She doesn't lie!
Öö
Dr. Barndoor shows his brilliant results in his investigation of the photos.
I love this show! I am amazed the ways you go to figure out the validity of these paintings!
WONDERFUL! I have watched the most recent PRESENTATIONS 6-8 times apiece. I have also gone back to episodes from YEARS AGO.
So it will be wonderful to have NEW episodes to devour.
Are those previous episodes on UA-cam also?
The possible Winston Churchill painting is absolutely beautiful wether it’s his or not. I’d love a copy of it
It was validated in 2020
Love this program 🇺🇸
I absolutely LOVE looking at the comments from the Art History majors tussling amongst one another on these shows 😂
The Wildensteins should take note of the manner in which the Lowry experts used logic and facts to arrive at conclusions.
The Wildensteins should be shut down. Just a bunch of pretentious liars. How in the world did they acquire a name in the art world? A lottery??? Or some kind of pay off? They would probably declare my home paint-by-number a masterpiece.
I enjoy ancestry family searches, but the search for historical art is so much more in depth, along with tours of old beautiful places and ancient architecture. I love this show.
I adore that photo where he’s wearing such a professional suit but covered in white paint. 😂 It’s such an iconic artist look.
No institute should have that much power.
Reruns or not…excellent show!🧐
I love that this show plays soundtrack scores as background music! Whay a fascinating show this is
it has cues from the Da Vinci Code (see 1:54:55 for instance). fitting
Indeed-at the turning point we hear Inception ( 1:44)
I took a risk buying original (assumed) painting at a garage sale about 18 years ago. I researched it then sold it on eBay. The price I paid was $20 US and I sold it for $110. At the time, the internet wasn't as helpful as today. I wish I had held onto the painting.
I’m not sure I’d call twenty bucks on a painting a risk.
Adjusted for inflation, did you actually sell it for "more?"
@@dianahockins717 i earned ninty bucks for my risk. I started flipping at the age of 8 and I am 63 now flipping my moms things to pay for her care. I can't do much due to illness though. I had some glory days, paying a quarter and selling the item for eighty bucks to a museum. Its part education and part instinct.
Sue the Wildenstein mental institute.
was really hoping this was a new episode
Same. But I still watched it 😊
There's a New Series of Fake or Fortune starting around August/September 2023 on BBC.
@@JuliaARubinThere's a New Series of Fake or Fortune starting around August/September 2023 on BBC.
@@AquafyreThere's a New Series of Fake or Fortune starting around August/September 2023 on BBC.
Same here. Excellent show!
The authentication of art is not unlike the certification of computer software. In the past 30 years, if the software you write is not CERTIFIED by Microsoft, it is virtually impossible to sell it. To get a certification from Microsoft, you literally have to submit your source code to Microsoft for them to analyze. Why would anybody give Microsoft their technology?
27:18
Perfect ! Love the colour combination of the yellow ochre and black and white.
That Lowry episode is fascinating. Remind me to do more complex paintings with rare and unusual paints when and if I ever become a “found artist” in the primitivist style. That way the forgers will have a harder time with my output. 😉
This was so interesting!
Sarah York seems to have benefited more from her divorce than from her marriage: 2 lovely daughters, residence in her own wing at Royal Lodge, (a 30 room mansion) in Windsor Park, QEII’s beloved corgi’s, influential and wealthy contacts, etcetera. Why would THE Spare’s wife think her divorce would provide any less if she stayed in the UK post, divorce?
IMO, she never intended to stay in the UK, divorce or not.
I hope that woman said screw you to the arrogant art egos and sued the ‘experts’ who obviously have damaged her financially
When the lady said they sold off masterpieces to pay for renovations Fiona took a deep breath priceless.
Unfortunately that’s what once rich families have to do to pay the bills once the fortune has been frittered away and the only things of value left are the antiques and paintings. Fiona should know that. lol.
My experience as a painter is that most of the people that make the decisions in the art world or high dollars are involved are snobs who can't even paint they love dictating who and what is valuable if the Institute that is rejected it was offered 60% of the value at auction they would immediately declare that it is the most wonderful find in the history of the art world of a painting by Renoir. My apologies voice texting I assume someone from China programmed The Voice texting on my phone
Absolutely fascinating I love this not only do I think it’s fascinating. You are introducing me to artist I’m not familiar with. I know the impression is I know the Americans cause I’m an American but I’m learning about artist all over Europe. Thank you thank you. I love this show.
Such a wonderful show.
I recognize this painting...it was the subject of a TV documentary either about painting or about a travel show featuring the area where this painting was painted. I remember seeing a photograph in the TV show showing Churchill sitting in a portal (door way?) painting this image. If I remember correctly, the TV show aired during the noon hour 2010-2012 in Edmonton, Alberta from Seattle, KSPS, that featured painting/ painters. The TV show aired in the 1980s or 90's.
It's amazing some of the junk they call works of art, stuff that looks like it was painted by some kid in elementary school. And to think someone would pay thousands of dollars for it, even millions sometimes.
I really love the BBC. Why is their such a devision between the different art houses?
Because every field of endeavor has these nasty, petty rivalries. Among businesses and sports teams these exist, obviously. But also among scientists, doctors, professors, schools, even hospitals, nunneries, monasteries and orphanages. The high art world is not immune to this.
@@pdruiz2005 that makes sense
i love the series, no idea how many there are, and it is tricky to identify the episodes without onening the link.
would be great to have a number and series!
"gullible" is the only word necessary. if you can't see these people are the real art thieves. Still i love there performances ❤
Really enjoy this! Fascinating…
I hope Susan was able to provide a marker for her grandmothers family.
Bendor's academic background is actually in British history with a particular emphasis on politics: his PhD thesis concerned British foreign policy and he wrote a book on what he believes were history's worst MPs.
Loved this!
I LOVE THIS
It is surprising that Richard Toulmin North is not buried at the family Church
Surely after the Wild'en'stein's ut'ter b'ad fa'ith has been expo'sed by this TV-show, it does more to disparage the value of their imprimatur than to disparage the notion that the painting is by Renoir. Everything they said in their "rationale" for their opinion was simply a restatement of the ill-founded opinion being "explained" by their circular reasoning. They didn't cite anything in justification. They said things that were simply contrary to the facts. If Chris'tie's and So'the'by's won't auction this painting, put it on e'Bay. After the world sees this TV-show, there will be many bidders who will be willing to bid on this painting in the knowledge that it IS a Renoir, as opposed to their knowledge that the Wild'en'stein Institute SAYS it's not. They can say the sky is the ocean too, but would that make it true? What matters is not what some "authority" SAYS is true, but, rather, what IS true.
Not only that but the Wildensteins are criminals. The head of the foundation Guy Wildenstein was just charged for tax evasion. And the only reason Guy’s brother and father didn’t go to jail is because they died before they were charged.
I remember the Churchill painting episode, but can't recall how it turned out. Fake or Fortune? I seem to remember Fake, in spite of all the proof that it was real.
then it was validated in 2020
The project and program were excellent. But the back ground music was aggravating -- I was forced to watch other channels on this topic. PLEASE REMOVE THAT MUSIC. Thank you for your programming. 😮
I’ve wondered how art works, given as a gift, fit in the stream of provenance. I can see the possibility of Lady with Two Dogs selling as a set with People in the Street, bought by one person, then gifting Lady to Steve’s father. Or, gifting it to his mother. Or to the family. I can imagine it as a family group. One lady and two dogs, the father and son. That’s the kind of connection I would make when gifting a piece of art to a friend or family member.
I also love how the different nations treat provenance differently, directly reflecting their traditions. With British paintings and the British art market it’s done through a decentralized, informal jury system, where art experts gather together and render verdicts. With the French, one has to go through an all-powerful, secretive institute like the Widenstein Institute. It’s highly centralized and there’s no room for dissent. How very French. 😆
So much for provenance regarding the Churchill. Living people connected to his being there at the time they've got both film and periodical confirmation? Experts? Give me a break. I liked the Churchill painting before they "cleaned" it.
Just a quick glance I knew this is a Renoir. 😊
I don't know that Lowry was lying about the colours he used when he was interviewed. Him trying out whites and settling on one and then being interviewed years later and saying you use five colours is not a lie. That is what he used. Even as the forger pointed out the zinc white is watery and thinner, likely why Lowry did not finally settle on it. Why he decided not to finally "use" it!
Personally, I'm thoroughly enjoying the daily vlogs. It has to be exhausting for you but I'm all for them.
Insane to keep it in the church, especially after this show revealing it as worth in excess of 100,000 L . better to get that forger from the first episode to copy it. The paintings stolen from the Gardiner Museum have never been recovered. They stole 3 paintings in minutes. Imagine how easy it would be to steal it from a church? Nuts beyond belief.
Happy i found this show, but the music and certain terms used really jazz up the show like its NCIS lab work for a unsolved murder. Like homeslice you xrayed a painting to see colors. You didnt infiltrated seal team 6 😂😂 they didn't even talk about japanese washi kozo ❤
I am no sleuth but, the type on the label and the a wax pencil (assumed) number on the back, can those be authenticated for the place the painting was bought from? What about testing the one bought at auction for that buyers provenance?
I bought a beautiful old painting of a Chinese junk boat but can’t find the artist information.
Peter Lee,
Teter Lee,
I can’t tell the spelling?
Anyone heard of either artist
These days DNA technology is so precise that even a fingerprint leaves behind DNA and can be tested, I am curious if that isn't a way to ID a picture. Amazingly, right now, with the political unrest and the world so terribly over populated, investors are pushing art as a solid investment. I would think gold would be the push.
That bendor guy - he will bend over backwards to reveal the cracks in a painting.
As far as I'm concerned Wildenstein has lost all credibility as an authority on Renoir and also much credibility as an authority of art in general. Considering all the trouble the family has had and the Institute being caught dealing in stolen paintings, I'm surprised that they were still considered the authority at the time. Shameful their behavior with this decision, it wasn't about facts, it was about feelings and ego, childish antics. I do hope the rest of the art community will see that this bunch is all about the money and not so much about actual science, truth and appreciation of art.
I was almost convinced at the start of the episode that the painting was Renoir, everything else dug up in the episode goes beyond any doubt, it looked right even if crude, and most simply due to the rare and almost magical translucence that Renoir was able to achieve with oil.
I wish I had $100K to offer on this painting, I have no doubts that it is genuine and I also have no doubt that if the now Wildenstein Plattner Institute, Inc. now in Ney York doesn't run their operation much more professionally than what the French iteration did they won't be considered the authority on anything for much longer and the painting will sell for what it actually is worth.
I also have a feeling, without researching it, that there is likely something shady about this transfer of the institute to Ney York, it strikes me as much akin to the family's long history of shuffling assets around to avoid consequences, it really does seem like just more Wildenstein family shenanigans.
I wonder if that’s the original Vermeer “Girl with Pearl Earring” on the workbench in the foreground at 2:40:20??
Most likely not
However, it very much looks like it! Fake or Real?
0.36 what is the title of the backsound song this minute plss
How well do 2 pictures line up in overlaid with each other? If they line up can only be small question if real?
wasnt this already posted
I totally disagree with results to, ( I believe) the Churchill painting.
So obvious he was there and painted it with borrowed paints!
So obvious from the newspaper account and News Reel, that he was there at that time, Oct. 1,
1949! Come on!
So unfair!😢
Come on 3:48:03
2020 it was finally validated
I've never been able to understand why obviously talented artists spent their talent, time, and energy copying other artists to create fakes that are so perfect that can't be identified as a fake. This man, who was imprisoned for 4 years ,could fake antiquities, modern art, sculpture, Lowry, among who knows what other artists he faked. Why wouldn't they just create their own art? Never, ever have I understood that. Was it about risk? Or about being able to pull one over on so called "experts", because those experts are so many times the fly in the eye for many owners of real art that that they denounce as fakes, which to anyone who watches this show, is maddening. It's such a narrow, closed group that makes those decisions, and are often afraid of of marring their reputation.
I so agree!
it frequently starts when the forgers own art won`t keep the roof over their heads or food on the table because they are an "unknown" artist, and then continues because their own pieces can`t come close to the earnings their copies can. very understandable when considered from that point of view
If the snobs don't say your work is valuable, no matter how good you may be, it is more profitable to forge art.
And with some of the forgers they recieve a great deal of satisfaction when one of these "experts" (who declared the artist's original work worthless) declare the forged work authentic and worth great sums of money.
Same artists, one honest (worthless) one a lie (declared valuable).
However great the facility of the forger, the ability to copy the styles of well-known and highly-valued artists, the forger himself has (probably) no unique or compelling style of his own. Being a convincing copyist requires great technical skill and knowhow; it does not require imagination or originality.
INHERITANCE _ FRANCE Father no mother - Under inheritance law in France, the amount set aside as the reserve is as follows: If there is one child, they receive 50% of the estate. With two children, they receive 66.6% of the estate between them. With three or more children, they receive 75% of the estate between them. The rest is covered by a will unless there isnt a will in which case all goes equal share to the children. Oddly works quite well as few arguments and the son if he has siblings will not inherit everything unlike the UK where sometimes the first son receives all the estate.
1:19:44 did I just hear a bizarro version of "Hello Zepp"? Haha
Does Sean the forger have a photographic memory?
wow
No for any reasons BBC is not sending to UA-cam the new episodes.
Disagree. I’m sure they have their reasons.
What would it cost to have the paint analysis, provenance history research, and expert evaluation performed? The "Renoir" was found to be of no value. Imagine you had paid $50,000-$100,000 to have all that work done; and then to find it of no value when your organization is in desperate need of funds.
I wouldn't say no value, greatly reduced yes.
You would need to find someone who trusts Wildenstein's competitors more the Wildenstein.
Something which appears to be getting easier & easier as time goes by.
LAWERY was a damn good salesman....
1:42 - The key point being that a terrible painting by Renoir will sell for more cash than a first-rate painting by a nobody. It's because nobody is buying art that's satisfying to look at. They're using attributable canvases as a kind of crypto-currency. No government can deflate their value by minting new Renoirs and Matisses and Picassos by the bushel. It's legitimate to do this. It's why you buy the guitar that Les Paul played instead of another one that looks, feels, and sounds EXACTLY like it. And when it's Les Paul's guitar everyone admits that the rarity is what causes the price. But when the rare collectible item is art, everyone involved pretends they're pursuing "beauty". It's so dispiriting to see everyone continuing with this sham.
Another problem caused by artists making great work one day and then schlock the next is that these "authoritative bodies" can have a conflict of interest. They can have as an objective the preservation of the artist's reputation. This means that they will be reluctant to admit that the artist did paint all of the really lousy works or art that the artist did paint. That's not fair to the people who pay for that signature on that canvas in good faith.
There are two kinds of paintings I buy. Paintings I like by unknowns that I like, and a few good copies of master works by a company that specializes in handpainted copies of master works.
Clearly there's a skunk in the garden and will not accept that they are wrong😢 It's just sad
Can i submit my own drawings?
These are old episodes
Sad
Ive seen a documentary on the
”art houses” and how they have such a political adversarial relationship that the people with REAL pieces of work get screwed all the time. If there is a piece that has as much documentation as the Renoir and Monet and it was turned down and denied out of spite…I would look into defamation, some people would be in front of the barrister. I would go to the press, tell them the story..perhaps people would stop giving these houses business.
How do I block this site? I don't wamt to see anymore
Look at the clothes in the painting compare the styles.
Dont under stand how people land up paying inheritance tax .... When a simple trust would avoid that.
That depends on what country you are in. That option is not available in all nations.
@@joecombs7468 it is. or can be set up offshore
@@relocatetoItaly true.
I'm a lost Lowry.....
I do get frustrated whenever we are talking about the authenticity of a work that we immediately go to their monetary value. Idk I think as art historians we can do better than that?
I have a painting allegedly from Sir Thomas Lawrence. All the provenance looks great but the art world turns its nose up when I try to investigate the painting. In my family for 70 years and before that was owned by a Wall Street lawyer who my dad went to Yale with in the 1940’s. Frustrating.
😊
oh poor man
🌈💝
I feel they’re nit picking the fact that the artist used different whites and claiming they’re somehow different paints when white is white, especially when it’s an untrained artist.
Even If those first three paintings ARE considered genuine, they are still of the quality of a child’s work - and a poor example at that.
Rerun
@dawnwesterbeck346 - Wonderful nonetheless, you cynic.
There is Oriental.clothes in that painting.
Carbon date it
.Micheal a gelo ?
The problems of the wealthy 🙄
It says a lot about humans, that Monèt has done a lot of good work, and all we ever see are his boring crappy messy flowers...
@CONEHEADDK - Try seeing them in person at full size. You may change your mind.
@@MossyMozart Maybe - I won't deny, that it could happen, when I haven't. But I still don't get, why people want the posters, when the world has sooo much fantastic art to chose from. I've been lucky enough to see a bunch of thar crazy english gay gy, who painted "chopped up humans", some times on unpainted canvas irl years back, and that was very much different from small online pics, so you might be right. If you want to laugh and cry at the same time, look up danish Tal R.. Veery expensive.. :D
You are obviously the best human.
@@tennissir1986 True... At least not the worst, since you are alive..
I've seen his Lily's...I'm not a fan.
BUT his trees?! Are to die for! I remember walking by in a museum and going "oh, that's almost like a Monet, but I don't think so. Who is the artist?"...and it was Monet...I couldn't stop looking at them. Stunning use of color and texture by him!
That's when I understood the hype surrounding him
Fiona is quite fetching...
I love art, but I dislike this program intensely. The hosts are clearly biased in every case, e.g., "This is our painting." They don't understand that research should have no bias whatsoever.
Art experts are a joke. No respect given. I have more respect for forgers...
Reruns. Don't waste one minute of your life if you're a regular viewer.
Yes, never ever watch anything you like more than once. For those who have some favorite shows or movies saved, delete them all. They're a waste of time.
@AFAskygoddess and @kgm2182 I gather you're joking. Are you nuts or only pretending to be? Those are the most ridiculous comments I've ever read on a chat thread. That's like saying "Never drink a second glass of your favorite champagne." Or "Never re-read a play by Chekhov." Or "Never visit the National Gallery more than once." Or, God forbid, "Never touch a loved one twice." Not only do really good, much less great, things often warrant a second viewing, tasting, reading, or touching, the passage of time usually enriches us, deepens our knowledge, experience, and overall enjoyment of life so we revisit "old" things with mindsets altered and bettered. So, folks, return to these excellent older "Fake or Fortune" shows--you might see something you missed the first time around. And certainly don't toss or delete your favorite movies or shows--they'll be even better with age!