Rageknife Zeal on Senna | In Depth
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- Опубліковано 21 бер 2021
- Rageknife Zeal is good.
However, I forgot about Rageblade's Seething Strike, which grants up to 33% more on-hit damage in optimal scenarios. The real DPS gain is somewhere between 4-15% based on fight duration and number of auto-attacks. Do not assume the 15% is accurate at all times; it won't be. But it changes the consideration to a meaningful DPS upside to Rageblade. - Ігри
Thank God Phreak does the work so I can talk to my friends and sound smart without citing my sources thank you basegod.
This is why I appreciate Phreak. His dedication to really learning and understanding the game and doing research on new things he sees in games.
one should imagine the hights NA could reach if more people were this dedicated and willing to learn and improve over profit and replace
"i want to make this a short 15 min vid" yeah about that..
Nearly double the time. Still it's pretty pog
@@Meun can't disagree with that!
As usual. Phreak had a video that he called short that was like 46 minutes.
@@Meun cmon man, it's 1.733 longer
The discussion itself, sure. Tangents? Now that's a different case :P.
thank you so much for covering this, I was watching Doublelift and Sneaky flame these players for building that while casting and seeing you publish your own analytic take on it feels like the crossover of the century, I love this ecosystem
Pro players and bad takes on things they don't understand. Name a more iconic duo.
@@Phreak aphelios and 200 yrs
They also stated that they didn't ran the math after the changes and aren't sure if it is still good or not.
Fans and not giving the whole context. Name a more iconic duo.
iirc was more rageknife vs full crit. And Sneaky also wasn't sure if it was bad.
Sneaky is washed up as fuck
I don’t even play this champion but the information surrounding the focal point of the explanation is more than enough reason to stay.
God bless Papa Phreak
just wanna say I appreciate your content and your casting! It's a blessing to have the OGs still in the scene and still pumping out good content
Nice video! I really enjoyed the analytical breakdown between the two build paths. At several points during the video, you mentioned items being mythic, though I think you mean that they're legendary (the scythe support item and at one point when you mentioned rageblade), and they each count for the mythic bonus.
Imagine if you could download replays or have a spectator system of the pro games to be able to get more information like senna soul count
I love these kind of videos. I'm working on an app to make calculations like this easier to do because of how much I like the topic.
Love this kind of stuff and I would enjoy seeing more in-depth looks like this
Love these discussions around item builds :)
I was waiting for this since i heard it on the cast
Love you Phreak! You're my favorite rioter. Keep up the good work!
love you phreak keep it up with these fantastic videos :)
thanks for this, I'm a senna main and every game I build the knife + zeal just because I get the power spike faster than waiting for the entire rageblade, now I'm convinced that is a good build. In most of my games, I build the RFC before the RB because it feels better to get the extra range than the RB passive.
Also in solo q is more difficult to make fasting senna work because of bot communication, so I'm the one farming and the range of RFC is more necessary.
Great work, I'm a fan of this kind of nerdy things
Awesome analysis, thanks Phreak!
@ 7:37 too lol. You’re still the GOAT Phreak. Been punlovin for years brother.
I love these videos. I hope you'll indeed follow up with the lord dominik's comparison unless they nerf the items before then :) these calculations are really interesting
Great breakdown
Holy crap Phreak you are a math nerd.
I love it, never change.
As a Senna main I appreciate the work, thanks! :)
Another banger from the Phreakmeister!
Hopefully next you'll talk about Triforce into Titanic on fighters, especially since they've got the % base AD stacking on turrets for next patch.
I’d love to see more content like this! I wish pro players were generally more adventurous as far a champion picks go, but seeing FBI change up the Senna build for an optimization like this is hopeful!
this is actually really interesting, kinda wonder which would be more beneficial after getting zeal+knife: finishing RFC or Guinsoo first?
love the super analytical videos man, rather than listening to what "feels good" I get to see what IS good lol
IDK if I'm missing something but if you include the damage you gain from every third auto from rageblade passive, finishing rageblade after kraken is always the better build (way more dmg + pretty reliable since senna Q procs on hit effects).
Did you forget that rageblade does it's on hit dmg (160dmg at 80crit) on third hit twice. Zeal gives you like 1 or 2 aa more and luckyly q with extra ms. Btw i love this nerdy format keep it up!
You vids inspired me to start doing more math when it comes to planning out builds. One thing I founds with senna (assuming I did the math right) is that rageblade on hit damage only does more damage then criting when senna is below 340 AD which makes me think that it's better on low AD builds like the frostfire tank/utility senna then the more damage focused carry builds.
YES YES YES THANK YOU MORE LIKE THIS
Great video
Have i missed something or have you completely ignored rageblades double hit effect?
I did in fact forget the Rageblade double hit effect. That's pretty meaningful TBH and a big oversight.
kraken slayer is not an on-hit effect, it does not apply extra with rageblade. Senna has no built in on-hit damage. The only extra would be the damage from the rageblade itself. This was forgotten but it doesn't matter as much as one would think. At the moment you finish rageblade it probably is slightly better, but the zeal lets you power spike much sooner. So the zeal build trades a larger power spike for a n earlier power spike.
Did the calculation again. It means Rageblade is a 4-15% DPS increase (neither number is very likely, so it's really something in the middle) once that power spike comes online. A ~8% DPS gain in meaningful, as is 7% movement speed an an earlier power spike. I can't definitively say one is absolutely better than the other, but I can definitely say that Zeal builds are not trolling.
@@lukebortot7625 It would theoretically increase the dps of rageblade's on hit by 33%, making the increase 53dps. So instead of it being 477(zeal/cloak) vs 497(Rageblade) its actually closer to 531ish damage. So instead of it being only a 4% total damage increase to buy rageblade its actually a 11% total damage increase. (assuming you get every third attack off of course)
@@Phreak tbf Sneaky was talking at length about this and he completely forgot that Kraken was an on-hit effect as well LOL
wouldn’t change my calculus in a live game, if only because I just hate sitting on empty slots that aren’t giving me stats, and I think in high tempo pro play not just forcing the team to rely on expensive item spikes as an ADC probably only matters more, mythic bonuses aside
I wouldn’t stress too much about it king
I don't even play senna and was still interested to watch
Good follow up, ty
Hello from the uk phreak, nice puns
Excellent
They way he knows how to do this math is crazy, respect to phreak man......
@phreak, The one flaw in your powerspike comparison is the on hit bonus to kraken with rageblade. The zeal does win out but you undervalue the completed item by ignoring its effect for on-hit. Otherwise great math.
1:08 Say less man thanks for the video.
This is why Phreak is the best caster & analyst in League PERIOD!!!!!!
Great video! 😁
What do you think about Runaan's over RfC against lower range comps on Senna?
You can proc your passive on multiple targets and also get your Q up way faster.
hi phreak, can u do a video on Jinx/Kaisa PD or Hurricane? Thanks!
lolololol - As soon as I open the video and saw a spread sheet if knew we were getting some excel brain math! 💘
As an aside regarding the intro about not knowing the number of stacks FBI had, I'm a bit disappointed that Senna has been out this long with such an important metric, and Riot still hasn't implemented some function that allows observers in spectate mode (or even players in-game) from seeing Champion stacks on the scoreboard (Senna passive/Nasus Q/etc). Ideally, I'd love to just see the number on a bottom corner of their portrait when I press tab that updates each time they are observable, especially since as is, it's impossible for me to know the number, or even a ballpark, when they're in fog of war, which seems silly to me.
A very good explanation.
I value movement speed very highly, but I find it extremely intriguing to balance. How do you balance movement speed increase with damage? Riot has a certain relation between the goldcosts for armor, health, damage and as; so does anyone know the mathematics behind that?
Is there anyway you could make a video with math giving general guidelines on when to build resistance countering items. (Void Staff, Lord Dom, etc) Sure it's easy to say "Build Lord Dom into tanks" but what about the not so cut and dry scenarios? How much MR warrants Void Staff? How much armor warrants Serylda's Grudge or Lord Dom?
Would love to see this then compared to lethality build.
I dont remember who already discuss that and to make it quick. Its pointed out that no matter how many souls, which runes or which lvl u are as Senna the Kraken Slayer build only looses in the DMG department against the Eclipe until u get the first component to your second item; once you get even a dagger your damage its already better. Thats why everybody stop using the letality build bro
@@L0n3Sh4D0w5 would like to see that. Do they talk about the value of life steal or dusk blade mythic? There is also the question of stacking lethality after kraken?
RvzStealth is the name of the channel that made the video I watch but he doesnt talk of any other item than Eclipse (I think mainly because it was the better opcion due to the shield and the fact that u almost always biuld Manamune with it) and about the lifesteal i think because how senna passive work alongside the rageblade passive (the fact that you dont get any crit chance once u get the rageknife makes it impossible to get to the requierments to the lifesteal in senna's passive) what i normally do (apart for always taking PTA instead of Glacial) is take Legend: Bloodline for that necesity of sustain
You're grooming the best NA pro boomer. I'm coming for you, NA.
Hey Phreak, if I'm a support senna in game shorter than 50 minutes, do you think there's a chance I should straight stop at rageknife? Would finishing RFC and starting Lord Dom's or Executioner's be the better build, thinking about how much benefit I get from a little atkspd/seething strikes.
So what do you build after rage knife zeal? Do you finish the Guinsoo’s into Kraken into Zeal item? Or something else
So is this the new morrelos now, like you shouldn't be upgrading fully anymore. And the other question now is do they nerf rage knife to make you more inclined to upgrade fully or do they buff Rageblade.
Hey Phreak, I've been sitting on rageknife never completing and building other items, like zeal or LDR, and when I have 100% crit or close to it I sell the rageknife. I wonder if that is better than completing rageblade?
I would think the last patch change to Senna killed this build though? Is it still better than lethality senna?
Hello mister freak. Can you do video about font of life efficiency. I think Its under rated. Sry for my bad english
Do you think that it is also better for ADC Senna?
thanks for the tldr, Phreak. ill be back to finish this later.
youre not good youre gooder
Interesting analysis did you did not account for the passive effect of rageblade or am I missing something?
what about the Kraken RFC IE Build?
is it so terrible to not even think about?
you could go Kraken -> Zeal -> IE -> RFC or something so you dont spend so much gold on AS early. I tested it in practice tool and the burst per auto is alot higher, I could see this atleast do very well vs high range / squishy comps. Ofc you should go LDR instead of IE vs high armor/hp comps.
I get that rageblade has more DPS, but realistically you wont stand still and perma auto in fights, especially as senna as you are very squishy and immobile, but I see that it would be better vs tank comps I guess.
Anyone else note he constantly calls legendaries mythics >.>
4:20-4:25 “rageblade is a MYTHIC item”
I don't know how to make vaults of helia viable
As far as I can tell you forgot to include rageblade increasing the on-hit damage every 3rd hit. At 12:57 cant see the formula though so cant be sure but you arnt mentioning it.
whats up gamers
What about IE second? I'm under the impression that IE is just bonkers gold value wise, and any crit champion should almost always buy it third. Shouldn't Senna abuse her ability to buy it second with her passive? (Honestly, maybe even first before Kraken slayer - if you expect to get 60 souls that early, then IE + cloak would get you over 60% crit)
IE is really bad on Senna because she only deals 150% crit damage. That means IE only puts her at 165% crit damage or so. So you re hardly getting any value from the item compared to getting any other crit item that also offers utility
@@shadowofthemarsh2203 This is the same value as Rageblade/knife since the nerf lol.
@@pointlessnesses rageblade also gives it s passive, ie gives nothing
@@shadowofthemarsh2203 Wrong, just as in the video, Senna's crit ratio is about .86, so IE gives her + 30% crit damage instead of %35, meaning her crits go from dealing 150% dmg to 180% dmg. It is true that Rageblade gives the passive, but on the other hand, as Phreak explained then AD is much more valuable on Senna than AS.
anyone got a TLDR please!
@4:20~ rageblade is a *legendary* item, not a mythic, just for clarification
I wonder what the Liandry’s Salesman has to say about this?
Ok i find this kinda wierd. How has this become an discussion now?? Ppl like rekkless and other top pros have always gone rageknife into Rapid fire cannon (/dominiks) cuz the utility outway the rageblade passiv by alot.
promises made promises kept lmao
Note as well
Pros are better users of movement speed
I GENUINELY think pro players use ms twice as effective as your average player
Granted someone who is an adc player like me (aka a bad one)
Doesn't move enough and struggles to utilize movement enough when I am autoing. So if you are low elo and not an adc main you potentially could argue speed is useless granted personally even though I suck with auto weaving on adcs I still love speed on my bruisers so I get both sides of the argument. Basically what I am getting at is knife zeal is better and gets better in higher elo than it does in low elo cause kiting is hard and I can't pull it off.
but. senna has 0.3 attack speed ratio instead of 0.625 like most other champions. and she gets ad from mist and crit is more effective the more ad you have and once you hit a certain amount of ad, crit is just better than rageblade reguardless of your build because eventually youll have that amount of ad from mist and rageblade will be literally crippling your damage. also you should be building ad on senna, she scales very well with ad. crit is reduced, but still good cuz you auto attack a lot, but you get free crit, so just buy an IE and get mist and thats it for crit. dont buy attack speed, its less than half as effective as it should be for her.
Your audio is still a tad low. Getting closer though. Could you try adjusting it a bit higher next time? Thanks.
Also, "100 characters or less..." and "under 15 minutes" ... lol.
Can't wait for my silver team mates to play senna mid with rageknife zeal rush
You forgot to carry the 2
Its 8% dps vs 7%ms
Not 4%dps vs 7%ms
LDR is straight up better u can just look at her base HP smile
4:20 : Rageblade isn't a Mythic item. I assume you meant Legendary?
4:19 Rageblade isn't a mythic item...
First