"How many Centauri does it take to screw in a light bulb? Only one, but in the Great Old days of the Republic- thousands of servants would change thousands of light bulbs at our slightest whim!"
Why did the chicken cross the road? Why would a creature that swims in the sea want to cross a road? Bah! Earth humor eludes me! It’s like being nibbled to death , by , what are those creatures? Feathers, long bill, webbed feet go quack ? Cats It’s like being nibbled to death by cats !
My favourite dialogs between Londo and Vir. Londo Mollari: "But this…this, this, this is like… being nibbled to death by, uh…Pah! What are those Earth creatures called? Feathers, long bill, webbed feet…go "quack"." Vir Cotto: "Cats." Londo: "Cats! I'm being nibbled to death by cats."
@@alanmike6883 yes Vir Cotto, also known as "Abrahamo Lincolni" the Centauri who smuggled out the Narn slaves Via the underground rail road. after Vir's promotion and assignment to the diplomatic mission on Minbar, he began receiving sensitive government information in line with his position. He discovered the horrible conditions on the Narn Homeworld that the Narn lived under after their war with the Centauri. He concocted an elaborate ruse to get as many of them out of the prison camps as he could. As he personally did not have the authority to transfer prisoners, he invented someone who did. The resulting identity - "Abrahamo Lincolni" - was created as a Centauri in his office with the authority to transfer Narns by issuing travel documentation under existing work programs for factories to work, both on- and off-world. At least 2,000 Narns were transferred off-world on his authority. Then, to make sure they would no longer be harassed or come under risk of being enslaved once more, he forged death certificates for each. The now-"dead" Narns would be free to escape Centauri-controlled space. Vir then used Babylon 5 as a transfer point for the "dead" Narns. Zack Allan became aware of these activities and the obvious use of an Earth name on the papers. He informed Susan Ivanova, and she and John Sheridan confronted Vir with what they knew. They were livid after discovering the death certificates for thousands of Narn, signed by this "Lincolni", whom they knew to be Vir. Londo Mollari was quite proud of his young attache, but Vir ruined the moment by confessing that the Narns were not dead. He only faked their deaths to get them out of the prison camps. Ivanova and Sheridan were relieved that Vir was not a killer, but Londo was outraged, and soon Vir was removed from his position on Minbar and ordered never to speak of this. Once the dust settled, Ivanova stepped in and continued to use the name, even using an image of Sheridan - altered to look like a Centauri - as an official picture of "Lincolni." The identity had 12 years of service and was assigned to the Centauri Relocation Bureau. With the false identity, she continued to use Vir's work to free more Narn as long as the ruse would hold out.[ loved his interaction with "Mr. Mordin" the shadow agent when he was asked what HE Wanted, *"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike, as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I want to look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this."* --Rick much love to the Babylon Project babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page
Londo saved Centauri. He guided Vir. Londo was trapped, but left instructions to ensure the future of Centauri. He had to take the mind control parasite, but he put in place a way to counter it.
If not for Sheridan and Galen, who knows what would have happened after Vir. Cartagia’s son Dius Vintari could have led an attack on Earth. Presumably, Sheridan taught him to be a better man.
I always looked at the different governments as JMS trying to say 'this is what's wrong with this situation.' With the Centauri, like you said, they always appear to be bad even when helping the 'good guys,' because of what the Centauri represent: a culture that looks backwards not forward, a culture that sees societies and nations as sophisticated or primitive depending on how like them (Centauri) others are, a lack of empathy or understanding simply based on wants/needs of the culture. The Centauri go on and on about the glory days of the past, they look down on Narns or others and barely tolerate humans because they are more like the Centauri, and they don't care what their actions cause or who is harmed by them so long as they get what the Republic needs. The imperialist attitude means that even when the Centauri help, they're still getting more out of the deal then they're putting in.
The Centauri rose to power in the time after the last great war. Which saw the older races licking their wounds as it had been a costly victory for the Vorlons and their allies, which gave the Centauri the perfect chance to spread outward. A few hundred years earlier and they would have needed to take sides as possibly the least powerful spacefaring race. If that had happened things would have probably gone much differently for the Centauri. Instead we get Centauri that have stagnated into a position of comfortable power that feel like a cross between Caesars' Roman Empire and the Napoleonic French Republic... With a concept of face that would rival Japan or China (as the appearance is often equal to the action for them).
Spot on. The Centauri were in the right place at the right time to expand and grow their fledgling Empire. Time, apathy and decadence took their toll until the Empire was a shadow of its former self. By the time they encountered humanity, all they really had for leverage was their knowledge of jump gates and trade networks. A lie about earth being a lost colony was a ruse that ultimately didn't work in the long run. Personally, I forsee the Centauri ultimately withering away to a third rate power until they're forced to join another Empire / Alliance to maintain their standard of living.
On the Centauri collaborating with the Dilgar that was a Narn allegation. Even after the Dilgar War the EA had cordial relations with the Centauri Republic. The Centauri only claimed Earth was a lost colony. Earth didn't bite on that due to genetic comparison and peleontological evidence.
How did EA get that genetic information? My theory: they got one of the Centauri drunk and hired a hooker. The moment he undid his vest, she knew that they weren't even remotely human. But being resolute and patriotic and under contract, she collect that sperm sample anyhow.
The centauri did back the Dilgar. Its why Londo voted no on the Deathwalker tribunal. The Centuari handed over a Narn colony world that was under Centauri control. This world was then used as a staging ground to attack the races that would later make the league of non aligned worlds.
Hey Lore, when you get a chance, can you do a breakdown of the ships/technology the Centauri used to produce the mass drivers that evil Emperor used to re-subjugate the Narn before the Shadow War? It's always been fascinating that they were portrayed like space nukes, but were also charged asteroids. Thanks in advance and keep up the great work
I can save him some effort. A Mass Driver is a simple kinetic strike weapon. It has no explosives...just "mass" as the name implies. Since the mass of a kinetic kill weapon is a constant, the only variable is acceleration, so force yield on impact is directly related to how fast the Centauri could get the projectile moving. Narn was bombarded with two types of mass drivers, the first being good ole fashioned asteroids that we're likely towed in from somewhere in the system and set on a collision course with the planet to cause widespread damage; these would be the ones to cause the most ecoligical damage, and could easily approach extinction-level events (depending on size and speed.) The second type were the ones seen being fired from the Centauri warships. Given the size of Centauri Battlecruisers, these would be relatively small (probably no bigger than twice the size of your car) dense spheres. These would be the "tactical" weapons with damage equivalency of nuclear weapons due to their smaller size and MUCH slower velocity at impact. The "charging up" you see serves three purposes: 1. Launch - If a sphere is set to rotating (even in a vacuum) then any forward momentum applied (such as a magnetic rail system) will more easily translate into forward velocity due to centrifugal force helping to counteract inertia. 2. Travel - A rotating object would more easily traverse an atmosphere on its way down, again because the centrifugal force would help counteract the air resistance and help to keep the projectile on target. 3. Destructive Power - The rotation of the projectile is technically Kinetic Energy (because it is in motion) but in the (loosely) closed system of the projectile in flight into a gravity well, it also counts as Potential Energy; that is, any rotation not lost to air resistance MUST be dispersed by the ground on impact...thus causing more damage than a non-rotating projectile and adding to the destruction on impact. So, your description of "charging them up" isn't really wrong.
Hi Andrew, thank you so much for that thorough reply. That was better explained than I even hoped for by Lore lol. While the tactical weapons make sense, I do find it interesting that the Centauri would use asteroids that could cause extinction-level damage. Its been awhile since I saw the episode, but I remember that the Emperor always intended for the Narn to be resubjugated, not exterminated. While eliminating a species' homeworld isn't necessarily completely genocidal if they are a space-faring society, it still runs the risk of destroying that species natural location for healing should a mass epidemic occur. I just find it interesting that he would run this risk, despite how completely insane he was, considering how much he wanted to reconquer the Narn. Just a random musing. Thank you again for taking the time to give such a well-thought out and in-depth reply.
Since Cartagia was a Nero-analog, he was patently insane; as such, he would very often say one thing and do another. In Cartagia speak, "subjugating" the Narn just happened to mean "subjugating whatever happened to be left over." He intended to push the Narn to the brink of extinction since a tiny population is easier to control than a massive one. Given the Narn history of rebellion and guerilla warfare, another insurrection was a foregone conclusion, so a population of a couple hundred thousand is far less likely to successfully rebel than a population of several billion. The Emperor even hinted at wiping the Narn out completely in time...he just wanted to enjoy himself first. So, to Cartagia, mass drivers made perfect sense since Narn had already been plundered of its natural resources during the previous occupation; the Centauri weren't there for slaves or resources because you don't use mass drivers on real estate you want to occupy. The Centauri reoccupied Narn for pride, vengance, dominance, and extermination.
Nicely done. On the political arrangement of the Centauri Republic, as well as much of the internal political conflict, I think this fictional empire was based on the Roman Empire, notably the Julio-Claudian dynasty. Yes, there was an emperor, Octavian now Augustus, who wielded absolute power, but technically he was just "first citizen" within the restored "republic" - albeit a first citizen with legions behind him, popular support, and a weakened Senate. This parallel works better than the more modern constitutional monarchies we've seen, such as in the UK/British Empire. And the ancient Romans continued to see themselves as a republic, even though most of the elite knew that they no longer lived in an oligarchy but a autocracy that gave a nod to the great houses of Rome (and that kind of fits the Centauri). The ancient Roman parallel also fits the "mad emperor" motif (Cartagia is a wonderfully acted articulation of Caligula; even the names are similar to the ear). The use of poison, assassination, and military expansion to create glory and unity at home all fit the ancient Romans. Even the "Great Houses" nicely parallels the elite ruling class of the patricians ("fathers" of the republic) (more than the political house system of the Klingons in TNG Star Trek). Watching the Centauri Republic in B5 almost feels like a science fiction walk though Suetonius. :)
I think it was on the DVD interviews, its been awhile since I watched them, but Word of god as the Centauri expanded too aggressively and enthusiastically so they had huge swathes of territories but a low population. For example, there were only hundred of millions on Centauri prime compared to the 6 billion on Corriana VI which the Army of Light chooses to defend in the final battle between the Vorlons and the Shadows
One thing I liked about the games were that it had a good story and good characters and considering the technology of the time was like a mini movies especially three and four
I got the impression from the series that Straczynski (sorry about the spelling) based the Centauri on the Roman Empire. You can see shreds of the good elements in their culture in characters like Emperor Turhan, Urza Jaddo, and Vir Cotto, but ultimately the worst elements of their nature wins out, exemplified by Londo Molari, Lord Refa, and Emperor Cartagia. At the end of season five I pretty much assumed that the Centauri were doomed (especially considering that their Regent and Emperor Molari became puppets of the Drakh) . Anything good resulting from Vir Coto's rule as Emperor will probably be short-lived. Like the Romans the Centauri aren't perfect, but their greed and short-sightedness will be the destruction of their race in the long run. Great video though. B5's a great addition to Lored Reloaded.
Actually its said in official side cannon that Vir actually saved the empire and in his rule remodeled the empire off of Earth's old British parliament.
@@barrybend7189 thanks for the update. In spite of their behavior in the series I actually like the Centauri. It's great if they can pull out of the nosedive, especially after the Drakh infiltrated Centauri Prime after the destruction of Z'hadum.
@@jamesburke3413 yeah an somehow Vir or flounder because the actor who played as him in animal house is actually the most liked character in B5 (gerabaldy is close second).
"Who decides that the work day is from 9 to 5 instead of 11 to 4? Who decides that the hemlines will be below the knee this year, and short again next year? Who draws up the borders, controls the currency, handles all the decisions that happen transparently around us? I'm with them. Same group, different department." - Justin
One must like the Centauri and Londo in particular is admirable. The nearest the B5 universe gets to a combo of the Roman Republic and post-Victorian British Empire
The Centauri were bad guys, that's the main reason the Shadow approach them, and when Kosh revealed himself Londo didn't see anything, because the Vorlons never went to Centauri Prime; perhaps because it was already being influenced by the Shadows.
Great video and I hope to see more. I really saw them as shelled after the British Empire. Pushing out with the strongest Navy to the farthest reaches and establishing "colonies". (Would that make the Narn America!?) You are right though it's also a mix of the Roman Empire with their celebrations.
The balance of power changed radically during the time frame of the series. At the beginning, emperor Turhan did very little day to day governing and was ruled very similar to Queen Victoria. By the end of the series ambitious factions (Lord Reva) put a puppet emperor in charge and moved the power away from the centarum and back to the throne. Then Molari had Reva killed and Cartagia went sideways on them. So basically a complete unwind of a slow moving stable (stagnant) Republic.
Something I'm really wondering about is how exactly First Contact between the Centauri and the Humans went and why the former didn't try to conquer the latter, considering what happened with the Narn. Was it because Earth was just too far away from Centauri Space, or maybe only because Humans just look so similar? Anyway, it would be interesting, as it was Humanities first contact with Alien Life in this universe.
The Centauri by the time of Babylon 5 are something akin to The Byzantine Empire when the western Roman Empire had collapsed, and Byzantium had all kinds of aspirations of one day reclaiming the western empire, even going so far as to support barbarian armies in a kind of chess game, hoping they'd weaken each other enough for the Byzantines to step in, and reclaim it all. By the time the Vandals swept down into North Africa, and took over the remaining vestiges of Roman, and Carthaginian civilization that they hoped to reclaim, they realized their dream of "Making The Mediterranean 'a Roman lake' again" was never going to happen.
Great video but the alien race they celebrate victory over was called the "Zahn" not the Zonos. I can't believe you didn't mention that the Centauri have 6 you know whats, each one is used to reach a new level of pleasure :)
I just stuck the dvd in & jumped to the scene in "parliament of dreams" where they get mentioned, Londo, Vir & Garibaldi all mention the race by name & it's Zahn (or Zan, I've no idea about the spelling). I think your resources made a mistake, either that or the Mandela effect is real lol
The Centauri were fairly benevolent as far as expansionist empire go, at least in their Golden Age. After annexing you, they would just tax you but would protect and uplift you technologically in return. The Narn situation was different of course, because they resisted so much, making the Centauri oppress them harder in return, weary of showing weakness their age of decline. In their Golden Age, the Centauri were more of a force for good, considering that they fought and defeated the Orieni, which were the Dilgar of their age, being a powerful and extremely xenophobic and genocidal expansionist empire. I would say that the Centauri were less dangerous/malevolent than then the Minbari because they are not religious fanatics and haven't tried to exterminate an entire race over a bad first contact incident. Before the Dilgar build their conquest fleet, many of their officers got their training by serving as mercenaries in the Centauri Royal Navy.
Babylon 5 is a big bite of science fiction to chew, man. I know how much you had to gloss over as I've been a fan since it first aired. This is just my own takes on the show and I am in no way trying to insult all your hard work on this video series. I very much enjoy them and just wanted to add my two bits. While I understand trying to relate various elements to Trek as it's more widespread and easier to relate to a wider audience, it is actually much more complex than a simple race to race comparison. If you were to compare the races directly the Mimbari are very different than Vulcans, instead, try Romulans as they're closer in mentality would be a better match. The Centari are very unlike any Trek comparisons as they're modeled after the older form of the Roman Empire, complete with a representation of an insane Caligula. Earth itself is an interesting governmental construct, but what they don't really go too much into, at least in the show, is that every country still exists, as does the U.N. Just Earthdom is the combined effort of the countries of Earth to be the head of a government outside of Earth itself. The Mars rebellion episodes show that very well. The countries of Earth, unfortunately, still go to war with each other... At least until an alien race bloodies Earths' nose, then afterwards they go right back to it.
Londo had I think more bright spots than dark ones in his character. But Vir was all but totally imaculate as the one "dark" deed he ever comitted (Apart from waving mischievously at Morden's severed head) was to stab Emperor Cartagia to death, was a necessary evil. In general I also have zero sympathy for this race...
Do you understand this show. No, I can see by the vacant look on your face that says, "hold my head to you ear and you will hear the sea" that you do not....
How are you finding it lore? It's good ain't. Immersing. Multi episodic story arcs. Good characters etc I had to watch it twice to appreciate it. In fact I was gonna buy it with my next paycheck
I don't understand it's a if Earth got technology how come they didn't have gravity ships where they still had to have a rotating section and what have you I don't understand why I don't like the way it ended
How, exactly, are the Centauri worse than......basically any empire in Human history, including the US? The atrocities committed by the Centauri pale in comparison to what, say, Rome, Babylonia, China, etc, did. Not to mention that most of those atrocities were committed during times of war, a concept Americans and Brits should pause a little before the point out - keeping Dresden in mind. When it comes to the Xon (not "Xonos"), this was a fight for survival, and it was one or the other. Whether this could have been prevented by both sides giving and taking a little at an earlier date is irrelevant. The war was on, and it was a matter of either one party survives, or the other, not both. Under those circumstances, you can hardly blame the Centauri. And, again, if this makes the Centauri Republic malevolent for all time, then let's take a long, hard, look at the US, Germany, the UK, Sweden, etc. I will admit that I have not read any of the B5-books, only watched the show, so if I've missed something vital in the books, do let me know. But what do you base the claim that the Centauri protectorates are not actually protectorates, but slaves on? Because I don't remember anything from the show that would hint at this, though, to be fair, the show doesn't go into too many details on the matter. Hence why I referenced the books, because there might be something there.
HEAR, HEAR! *love* Londo and the posh, rich, lush Centauri culture. Jurasik was a driving force behind fine-tuning what the Centauri would be, much like Leonard Nimoy was to the Vulcans. It could have very easily been cartoonishly foolish, but he still maintained a pompous dignity and clear deep respect for the Centauri Republic's past, and what its future could be. Lesser actors would have been turned into a caricature like the Ferengi who never took off in any real way as far as adversaries with gravitas as intended. Peter Jurasik just oozes Old World style charm and wit with ulterior motives always being played. Brilliant!
Completely agree. Have always thought B5 was a Greek Tragedy, with Londo losing everything that ever meant anything to him, due to his choosing the easy way to his goals.
@@alanparsonsfan G'Kar got what he wanted, but at the cost of his eye and his life. Londo got what he wanted, but at the cost of his soul and eventually the Republic. Vir got what he wanted....AT THE COST OF MORDEN'S HEAD! AND HE WAS THE ONLY ONE HAPPY WITH WHAT HE GOT!
Considering most of the acting in B5 was at the daytime TV soap opera level it was painfully obvious who the stand out actors were. Sadly he was a diamond in a bag of coal. I enjoyed B5, but it always a little disappointed when the emersion was broken by bad acting....
Londo is probably the best tragic figure I've seen in sci fi. His empathy and compassion are there but he ultimately sabotages himself because of his flaws and fears. He truly loved his people and non-Centauri friends but consistently chose power and influence over them. He doomed himself and was responsible for uncounted deaths but was still able to redeem himself (a bit, depending on point of view). Plus...he was just such a likable bastard, wasn't he?
As he said he was a patriot. yes he loved power but not just for himself but for the good of the Republic above all. He was a good man that made mistakes and did his best to correct them.
He dances on the line,which makes him the most human figure, despite that he's not one. YOu see it that way, but I see his heart kept his most based character from going to far. Plus he got his wish when he died.
The way Londo used Vir in "And the Rock Cried Out" was actually probably one of his most evil acts (in the "one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic" kind of way). I always felt like the consequences of that betrayal should have had long lasting consequences for their relationship, but Vir seems to be over it right away. I get that Vir is used to being treated poorly by Londo, but even Vir recognized Londo crossed a line with that. At least for a few minutes, then back to being like nothing happened! What a waste of a possible plot point.
In the Gathering: Londo Mollari: "We were pretty good sharks ourselves once... ...but somehow... ...along the way... ...we forgot how to bite. There was a time... ...when this whole quadrant belonged to us. What are we now? Twelve worlds and a thousand monuments to past glories... ...living off memories and stories... ...selling trinkets. My God, man... ...we've become a tourist attraction. See the great Centauri Republic... ...open 9:00 to 5:00... ...Earth time."
Or better yet study the history of every great nation and Empire on earth. The rise of a untied people harden to be great and achieving it. Later as the pampered decendants weaken by the rich's earned by their ancestors, ruin their world to past history of another's histories book.
@@ahtaimo with the members of the UK commonwealth as the representations of Centauri 12 worlds.. and never ending stories of past of glorius achievements.. you're spot on..
the thing about B5 (and one of the MAJOR reasons why i loved that show) is that the "bad guys" weren't always bad, and the "good guys" weren't always good.
Babylon 5 was one of the first series I saw that was so grey, not good or bad, people on all sides had their own agenda and needs and sometime this made them do things that were both good and bad.
In Star Trek things are always seen as black and white but in real life that is just so not true. Babylon 5 does not look at things in black and white so stays true to real life.
@@MrStephen182 DS9 came the closest to showing how different sides in star trek could be "greyish". but then, DS9 was a semi-rip-off of B5 after all (albeit a darned good one!).
My opinion - since you asked :) - is that the Centauri Republic was doing good and was the dominant power in space (Excepting the Minbari, with whom they seemed to have little-to-no contact), and probably held that position for a long time. Things seem to have started going wrong when they took over the Narn. That resulted pretty obviously in a century-long Vietnam, which ate up resources and probably all-but-bankrupted them. Speculation on my part: I wouldn't be surprised if they were selling off worlds to pay for it. Here endeth speculation. When they discovered earth a century prior to the show, that war was still going on, and they seem to me to have already become very cautious. First they said we were long lost brothers. Then they said whoopsie, our mistake. Then they sold Jumpgate access/technology. They seem (To me) to have been conscientiously trying to avoid making more enemies, and seem very interested in trade, since their economy was probably in the crapper. Since we're told Emperor Turhan's father committed atrocities against the Narn, and Turhan himself is pretty innocent, it seems to me that it must have been Emperor Turhan who finally admitted defeat and ended the occupation of Narn 40 or 50 years before the start of the show. This might explain why nobody seems terribly broken up about his death: He cost them the war. In "The Gathering," Londo says "Come see the mighty Centauri Republic, a dozen worlds and a million monuments to past glories. Open nine-to-five, earth time." By the time the show ends, the Republic is actually *smaller* than the Earth Alliance!
"Do you know why I am here? I'm here to grovel before your wonderful Earth Alliance, in hopes of attaching ourselves to your destiny, like... what are those fish called on your planet that attach themselves to sharks?" "Ramoras." "Yes. You make very good sharks Mr. Garibaldi. We were pretty good sharks ourselves, once - but somehow, along the way, we forgot how to bite. There was a time, when this whole quadrant belonged to us! What are we now? Twelve worlds and a thousand monuments to past glories, living off memories, stories, selling trinkets. My god man, we've become a tourist attraction! "See the great Centauri Republic, open 9 to 5, Earth time." - Londo and Garibaldi The Gathering
It's no wonder the race would be a bit macabre given that one of their unique racial traits (besides having six sex organs) is that they seem to have some sort of vision or dream of their deaths their whole lives. When you're that fatalistically and overwhelmingly aware of your own mortality, you have two choices: live it up while you can, or be a blessing to others and try to leave the universe a better place. The Centauri as a race seem to have chosen the former.
I like to believe that Vir pulled the centari back from the brink of utter ruin, abandoning expansionism and focusing more on internal growth and cultural development. The innocent streak he managed to protect his whole life would be well suited to healing his people.
You are wrong about the relationship between centauri and the humans. When the humans meet the centauri, their republic was already in decline. The centauri only had a handful of systems and they weren't planning to have the humans destroy themselves. They were only looking toward commerce. Londo warned the humans not to go into minbari space, not to bother them, the humans didn't listen.
I got the impression that you think the centauri were still warlike or into conquering when they meet the humans. The centuari weren't interested in conquest anymore at that point, mainly because of their old emperor who felt sorry for all the war his empire caused. He is an old softy at heart and I think that's one of the reasons why the empire had declined during his reign.
Lore Reloaded, Yeah it definitely did sound like you were putting Human contact in the Golden Age period. Glad you recognize that truth is a three edged sword. :P
Personally, I love the Centauri. Their arrogance and penchant for intrigue make them one of the best things about Babylon 5. Without this stellar nation, the series would have been less remarkable than it is. I love this newfound channel. The perfect mix of wisdom and wit and sci-fi. Carry on!
There is no good or evil or all beings are both. I think the narrator of this video didn't get that point. Narn Was both cause and victim of atrocities. This series sort of did the same as star wars and take taoist belief, but screwed it up. In the end I think they showed that both the dark was not evil either. That the younger races was victem of their older brothers fighting. Even the Mimbari had it's evil times.
The Centauri represent the old European powers, diminished but proud, shadows of their former glory but stronger than than they knew, sidelined but determined to rebuild their influence.
The Centari became powerful and then rested on their laurels. By the time of Babylon 5, the Emperor was holding the Centari back from their worst instincts as a way of penace. He tried to help the Barn. But the Narn didn't realize that and started poking the bear. With the declining health of the Emperor, The Centari would get the chance to go back to their old ways and the Narn would suffer for their own decisions (poking the bear)
I know right. And that smile he does. Just like he promised. Vir showed wisdom that alas Londo lacked till the end but londo was still a compelling character though vir was the one the centauri needed to lead them 😀
Agreed. Vir was the one guy trying to warn Londo to avoid working with Morden. He also set up the Narn underground railroad with the alias of "Abrahamo Lincolni". He apologized to G'Kar before he became more enlightened. Vir was the innocent heart of the show, and maybe outside of DeLenn and Dr. Franklin, could be the kindest member of the entire cast, IMO.
Agreed. That tripartate. Though delenn only learned after the mistake of the war. Not saying that she was bad beforehand but she learned the lesson of making a decision in the heat of the moment. Vir was the closest thing to the purest soul on the show
A lot of the issue with the Centauri being the baddies is by the end of the series they were supposed to be redeemed (And in the Series Finale that takes place like 20 years later it's kinda implied with Vir that they are). When rumors that the show was going to be cancelled early hit, JMS rushed many story elements (the Shadow War was supposed to last through all of S4, and not just the first few episodes; the Earth Civil War was supposed to be the entirety of S5, etc). One of these story elements that got rushed was the redeeming of Londo. That's why he goes so quickly from being a dick to best buds with G'Kar in S4. Then when the show got a surprise renewal and was granted a S5 that JMS didn't think it was getting, he and the writers had to rush to patch stuff together. And suddenly Londo and the Centauri are back to being the bad guys again. (Season 5 as a whole is a mixed bag, you can tell it's sort of an epilogue, but plot threads brought up or brought back in S5 are never really given their full justice, looking at you Telepath War).
We know the Drakh was not kicked off Centauri Prime until after Londo's death. And I'm not certain Vir was able to kick them off Centauri Prime either. What we do know is that Emperor Vir guided the Republic into a period of reconstruction - restoring the bureaucracy, manufacturing, distribution and infrastructure. But Vir was also hated by the Centaurum and the people for having a moral code peculiar to most Centauri. The story arc of the Centauri Republic could have remained interesting for generations.
01:57 No, the "Republic" was only founded after long genocidal war with the Xon (not the Xonos). 04:20 Where is your source for this? I've seen every episode and read all the novels and haven't seen anything about such a plan. 05:14 Where did you get the idea the Centauri helped out the Dilgar????
01:57... did I day centauri republic or did I say centauri empire? Bonus question... did I state the republic was formed after the war later in the episode?
David, I'm a massive B5 fan. Not read all the novels but I have read the Centauri trilogy and it's 100% mentioned in one of them. The plan to allow humanity to destroy itself. I was a bit shocked to read that as It doesn't tie in with Emperor Turhan's style. Probably a Lord Rifa idea floated into the Centarum lol
I surprised you did not get through the series without some appreciation for the Centauri. I have to say the redeeming things about the Centauri are: 1) Charisma and fun loving. They seem to be a people who can enjoy themselves. 2) The Centauri are often tricky but rarely malevolent. Centauri have no qualms about using low cost manipulations and schemes on everyone. But when it comes to the high cost ones that denote a dedicated anger or hatred of another, they shy away from them. 3) The Centuari are willing to sacrifice much for the sake of their people. There are a strong sense of patriotism in all of them.
@@MrStephen182 but many cultures are based on being slavers. The American South still has a sense of deep pride and identity on starting a horrifically destructive war to protect their right to be slavers. Many Southerners still identify strongly with this cause and see the destruction of a statue of a historical slaver as one of the worst crimes possible (unlike slavery, which they see as wonderful)
The vorchan was new and reasonable design in packs but yes I agree with you. Despite being old the primus battlecruiser was still one of the most powerful ships of the young races
This is not important info but just some minor bits of info. The centauri over the course of many years sent many expeditions to Vorlon space and none of them returned. The Earth Alliance sent three expeditions over the years and the Vorlons said they had met with "accidents" and suggested no further expditions. - Ep And Now For A Word. The Centauri obviousy respects the Minbari and Londo said when the Centauri Republic were expanding in all directions they never opposed the Minbari. And given how the Earth-Minbari War went you can understand why the Centauri does not want to be on the Minbari's bad side.
And also there are canon RPG books I think that may add some more tidbits to the Centauri Republic. Can't remember what the books were called. But they have been mentioned a lot in the VS debattes on Spacebattles.com forums.
Indeed. Speaking as a brit too. It was very reminiscent to the fall. Like the withdrawal of narn could be seen as India or the last effort for a independent policy during the suez crises. After which after the USA forced a back down, everything became downsized like the fleet which would close stations east of East, and eventually led to present day. I say in a way the centauri under vir would be like the uk today In a way
I realise that - I'm not intending to attack you by saying this - You do have me wondering though if Londo did ever mention anything more specific about the "Great Days of the Republic" that would give us a better idea. By the time of B5 I don't think anyone has triple digit numbers of colonies - not even the Vorlon or Shadows. Perhaps there simply isn't that many habitable worlds or the ones there are are to remote to be easily defended. Not much use having a colony that takes many months to get to in Hyperspace really. Though the Universe seems a bit bigger an more populated in Crusade to me.
I think they are supposed to be a mashup of several different Imperialist nations from around the same time, but their goverment and social structure is more like that of classical period Rome with an Emperor and a senate composed of hereditary nobility and only the barest fig-leaf of republicanism
There was the time the centauri got tired of war for a while plus the emperor wanted more peaceful measures. But when the centauri met humanity they definitely weren't like they used to be. I say they could still fight but lacked the will. Like they are compare to the British Empire in decline but the Roman Empire when it expanded and the bit about fighting you could use the final years of the Vietnam War about losing the will.
They may be supposed to be aliens, but the Centauri are the most accurate depiction of humans in all of scifi. Ironically, the least accurate depiction of humans are the Humans from Star Trek.
The Centauri Republic is modeled on the Republic of Venice - which had a quasi-monarch (the Doge) elected from the city's nobility by the ruling council (the Great Council). The entire aesthetic for the Centauri is very much Renaissance Italian - Venice's golden age.
not the same, technomages know they are bullshiting, they just pretend it's magic. While technopriest actually believe it's magic and pray over their machines.
That was a very good outline of Centari and its set up to B5. Well done and your right as you get more into the series alot more of the nuances will flush out. 8 alway thought of the Centari as the instigators backroom dealing. Causing and letting others fight things out while setting back trying to portray innocent.
Sadly in the end, neither the Centauri or Narn ascended. As Kosh said sorrowfully and I paraphrase, "They are lost. You should let them die" This downfall was evident from the beginning.....
Kosh said to Sheridan, "Theirs is a dying race. It is likely we will let them pass." Sheridan responded by asking, "You mean the Centari or the Narn?" Kosh only said, "Yes."
Of course they deserve sympathy - as much sympathy as the other younger races who were caught in the machinations of the Old Ones...they were Shadow surrogates as much as the Minbari were Vorlon proxies and humanity their unwitting stalking horse.
I have on original DVD disc all 5 seasons of Babylon 5 and some movies from the series here in my apartmen ☺ The actor who played Sebastian in one of the episodes of Babylon 5 played various characters in B5 too ☺ Yes, I mean the actor Wayne Alexander He played these in the B5 series : Babylon 5 Guest Starring, "Comes the Inquisitor," (8 August 1995) - Sebastian Featuring, "And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place," (8 September 1996) - G'Dan Guest Starring, "The Hour of the Wolf," (4 November 1996) - Lorien Guest Starring, "Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?," (11 November 1996) - Lorien Guest Starring, "The Summoning," (18 November 1996) - Lorien Guest Starring, "Falling Toward Apotheosis," (25 November 1996) - Lorien Guest Starring, "The Long Night," (27 January 1997) - Lorien Guest Starring, "Into the Fire," (3 February 1997) - Lorien Guest Starring, "Intersections in Real Time," (16 June 1997) - Drazi Prisoner Guest Starring, "Movements of Fire and Shadow," (17 June 1998) - Drakh Guest Starring, "The Fall of Centauri Prime," (28 October 1998) - Drakh Guest Starring, "Sleeping in Light," (25 November 1998) - Lorien TV Movies Guest Starring, "River of Souls," Soul One Guest Starring, "A Call to Arms," Drakh
Alot of "protectorate/allies" amd only a handfull of ACTUAL colonies doesnt seem like much of an empirr at all. Unlike any of the franchises like Halo, Mass Effect, and ESPECIALLY the older franchises like Star Wars, Trek an Dune for example who ALL have huge territory and so many colonies they need lists and massive infastructures, and security/military forces to keep track of, support and control them all. If all they had was only a handful and were so bad at alliances that they couldnt keep peace, not really, id imagine the other franchises would be rollin around on the floor laughing at such an idea of an empire. That makes alot the lesz techno advanced factions like Halos UNSC an Mass Effect races for example seem huge and powerful with vast empires by comparison even though their technology compared to races like the Membari, Klingons or a random SW race for example are WAY more technology advanced.
Colonies don't define you as an empire, it just means that your nation is expanding. To actually be an empire, your nation needs to have some form of actual control over _other_ nations: any princeling can be acclaimed by peasants, it takes the obeisance of kings to mark an emperor.
Jared Maddox yeah how one runs some kinda territory defines if and how someone is or isnt an empire. BUT clearly the Membari didnt have any of that. Not really. Sounds like at best the headed more an alliance. But most time were fairly weak in the protection and leadership roles in addition to the said lack of supporting infastructures that made them barely an empire worthy of the name.
This is a video about the Centauri, did you really mean to refer to the Minbari instead? At any rate, the Minbari's isolationism suggests they likely didn't have many, if any, subordinate races, and their government is actually refered to as a _federation_ . The Centauri, meanwhile, are known to have conquered the Narn, and likely several other races, before encountering humanity: calling them an empire makes some sense.
OK, liked and subscribed. That was excellent. I do have some comments I want to make, unfortunately I don't have the time right now, but I will come back to you in a day or two. I'll just say, in conclusion, that B5 was the best science fiction TV series ever done, even surpassing Star Trek, and it is very unfortunate that the suits, in not allowing it to be syndicated, and greatly delaying and minimizing its video release, prevented it from becoming as big a cultural phenomenon as Star Trek is. It could have been.
Well they were ants in an area where elephants fight. Vorlons and the shadows. Everyone was a victim in that serial. They were all puppet in the shadow vorlon fight. They real could not have done any better. But it could have been worse. At least they survive other races were wiped out.
One of the things I think is hilarious about the Centauri is that they are anime h***** tentacle monsters. From space! It was revealed in Babylon 5 and no one noticed.
I find it interesting that of all the species the Vorlons interfered, the Centauri were the few species to not seem them angelic. Maybe the Vorlons realizing they are such a chaotic species they decide to leave them to the Shadows.
raw666 I always thought that event spoke more to Londo being touched by darkness than his people not seeing vorlans back in the day. Curious if any other maker religions were there that day and what they saw
I always thought it was more due to a telepathic marker since all the species describe seeing the Vorlons as an angelic form that resembled their species, but Londo said when asked what he saw, he said nothing. I think he meant that while the other species had a telepathic link to see the Vorlons as benevolent, he saw them as nothing but shadows that one cannot see. So the Vorlans either did not bother to put a telepathic link the Centauri to see them as benevolent, or Londo saw them for what they are really are, smoke and mirrors to deceive the other species into being benevolent.
Londo was influenced by the Shadows.It was this that started Londo to question his choices so maybe Kosh intentionally didn't appear to Londo to nudge him in the right direction
I think Centauris lack telepaths. After Narn bombed Centauri Prime, all the powers found out that the Centauri was being controlled, they cent Telepaths to help them.
Sorry but the Centauri has telepaths - they accompany the Emperor when he visits B5 just before the Shadows aide the Centauri. Its the Narn who lack telepaths, they were all killed in the previous Shadow war
Just adding the detail, as I don't see it anywhere in the comments either; One feature of the Centauri is that they are natural telepaths, which is a rarity in the B5 universe. All Centauri have very limited, but very real psychic powers. Londo, our main viewpoint Centauri, has what most of his race has: premonitions of his death. Centauri are attuned to the end of their timestream...or something. There are also seers, who can tell the future, we meet two in the series. And the Emperor of the Centauri has pairs of twin telepaths, who are so linked that he can leave one sister behind, and bring one sister with him while traveling, to make sure he can't be betrayed at court, another...cynical detail of Centauri culture. All in all, that also means the Centauri really operated on this whole independent sphere of galactic politics, the "secular" level, if you will, beyond the notice of the Vorlons (who seed most of the telepaths in the universe). The timelines also suggest (though to my knowledge none of the material directly implies this) that the war the Centauri fought in the distant past might have been races seeded by the Shadows in one of the previous wars, to further their Darwinian view of evolution. And as is seen in the Narn example, the Shadows hate telepathic races, but as the Centauri were never taken into the Vorlons confidence, it is speculated their entire existence as this militaristic empire is purely a forgotten byproduct of a former Shadow War that the Shadows forgot to check up on.
Your wrong about the Humans and the Centauri they was looking for worthy allies simlar to them this was explaned during a Babylon 5 movie when Lando was telling them about the human and Minbari war. The reason they found humans worthy of an alliance was because we were simlar to them and that they liked our art and culture.
lol, Of course the Centauri were a malevolent society, their ancient Gods were literally the Shadows. The connection between the Centauri and the Shadows runs so deep the Vorlons wouldn't even genetically modify the Centauri to see the Vorlons as angelic beings.
@Lore, to be honest, I always loved the Centauri when I was younger. They were a species of dramatic extremes, ancient values, and even a chivalrous ideal. To me, they're more than just evil aliens, they're a reflection of romantic idealism, traditionalism, and ego. While I agree with you, what they did was wrong to the Narns, both before and after Babylon 5 was built. Still, there's more to them than just evil ass holes; they were simply selfish and prideful, characteristics all great nations have had from Alexander's Macedonian Empire to the United States today. Now, I can't wait for you to explore the Narns, Babylon 5's equivalent to a certain semitic nation (Let's be honest, all the holocaust references were more than road signs)
Well maybe if it was gkar 😀 If things didn't go bad, if londo didn't make bad decisions, I could imagine londo and gkar eventually being party buddies.
Seriously G'Kar was a sexy beast, he was sleeping with 2 or 3 women at a time in bed, plus slept with one of Londo's wives. Sort of makes you think about that old Biblical line to "Be fruitful" The centauri were frat boys with binge drinking, fights, and big egos, but even when they had 3 wives each, they rarely ever enjoyed it. The Narn might have been aggressive, but they were active with their aggression
Mariel, aka Death, was sleeping with G'Kar. It's kind of a foreshadowing too, G'Kar's aggression mirrored that of his own people and Mariel according to Londo burns powerful men out, so in a way you canb say G'Kar doomed Narn by sleeping with Londo's wife.
"How many Centauri does it take to screw in a light bulb? Only one, but in the Great Old days of the Republic- thousands of servants would change thousands of light bulbs at our slightest whim!"
Why did the chicken cross the road? Why would a creature that swims in the sea want to cross a road? Bah! Earth humor eludes me!
It’s like being nibbled to death , by , what are those creatures? Feathers, long bill, webbed feet go quack ?
Cats
It’s like being nibbled to death by cats !
@@philvanderlaan5942 Great Maker , this is hilarious xD
Read that in Londos voice 😄
Londo said that to Lennier when he visit Lennier in the Infirmary ☺
My favourite dialogs between Londo and Vir.
Londo Mollari: "But this…this, this, this is like… being nibbled to death by, uh…Pah! What are those Earth creatures called? Feathers, long bill, webbed feet…go "quack"."
Vir Cotto: "Cats."
Londo: "Cats! I'm being nibbled to death by cats."
Don't give away the Homeworld
Londo was a lovable tragic character who redeemed himself in the end. Vir was the most pure hearted. Really wanted the best for everyone. 😀
therenegade79 that sentiment was also by G’kar to his aide.
@@alanmike6883 yes Vir Cotto, also known as "Abrahamo Lincolni" the Centauri who smuggled out the Narn slaves Via the underground rail road. after Vir's promotion and assignment to the diplomatic mission on Minbar, he began receiving sensitive government information in line with his position. He discovered the horrible conditions on the Narn Homeworld that the Narn lived under after their war with the Centauri. He concocted an elaborate ruse to get as many of them out of the prison camps as he could. As he personally did not have the authority to transfer prisoners, he invented someone who did. The resulting identity - "Abrahamo Lincolni" - was created as a Centauri in his office with the authority to transfer Narns by issuing travel documentation under existing work programs for factories to work, both on- and off-world. At least 2,000 Narns were transferred off-world on his authority. Then, to make sure they would no longer be harassed or come under risk of being enslaved once more, he forged death certificates for each. The now-"dead" Narns would be free to escape Centauri-controlled space.
Vir then used Babylon 5 as a transfer point for the "dead" Narns. Zack Allan became aware of these activities and the obvious use of an Earth name on the papers. He informed Susan Ivanova, and she and John Sheridan confronted Vir with what they knew. They were livid after discovering the death certificates for thousands of Narn, signed by this "Lincolni", whom they knew to be Vir. Londo Mollari was quite proud of his young attache, but Vir ruined the moment by confessing that the Narns were not dead. He only faked their deaths to get them out of the prison camps. Ivanova and Sheridan were relieved that Vir was not a killer, but Londo was outraged, and soon Vir was removed from his position on Minbar and ordered never to speak of this.
Once the dust settled, Ivanova stepped in and continued to use the name, even using an image of Sheridan - altered to look like a Centauri - as an official picture of "Lincolni." The identity had 12 years of service and was assigned to the Centauri Relocation Bureau. With the false identity, she continued to use Vir's work to free more Narn as long as the ruse would hold out.[
loved his interaction with "Mr. Mordin" the shadow agent when he was asked what HE Wanted, *"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike, as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I want to look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this."*
--Rick
much love to the Babylon Project babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page
Vir saved the centaury as no one hates vir.
Londo saved Centauri. He guided Vir. Londo was trapped, but left instructions to ensure the future of Centauri. He had to take the mind control parasite, but he put in place a way to counter it.
Londo, Vir and G'Kar saved Centauri Prime. I love them three characters so much.
If not for Sheridan and Galen, who knows what would have happened after Vir. Cartagia’s son Dius Vintari could have led an attack on Earth. Presumably, Sheridan taught him to be a better man.
I always looked at the different governments as JMS trying to say 'this is what's wrong with this situation.' With the Centauri, like you said, they always appear to be bad even when helping the 'good guys,' because of what the Centauri represent: a culture that looks backwards not forward, a culture that sees societies and nations as sophisticated or primitive depending on how like them (Centauri) others are, a lack of empathy or understanding simply based on wants/needs of the culture. The Centauri go on and on about the glory days of the past, they look down on Narns or others and barely tolerate humans because they are more like the Centauri, and they don't care what their actions cause or who is harmed by them so long as they get what the Republic needs. The imperialist attitude means that even when the Centauri help, they're still getting more out of the deal then they're putting in.
Dude! it's awesome that after so many ears people still invest in babylon 5! awesome and keep it up! hope to see more videos on babylon!!
The Centauri rose to power in the time after the last great war. Which saw the older races licking their wounds as it had been a costly victory for the Vorlons and their allies, which gave the Centauri the perfect chance to spread outward. A few hundred years earlier and they would have needed to take sides as possibly the least powerful spacefaring race. If that had happened things would have probably gone much differently for the Centauri.
Instead we get Centauri that have stagnated into a position of comfortable power that feel like a cross between Caesars' Roman Empire and the Napoleonic French Republic... With a concept of face that would rival Japan or China (as the appearance is often equal to the action for them).
Spot on. The Centauri were in the right place at the right time to expand and grow their fledgling Empire. Time, apathy and decadence took their toll until the Empire was a shadow of its former self. By the time they encountered humanity, all they really had for leverage was their knowledge of jump gates and trade networks. A lie about earth being a lost colony was a ruse that ultimately didn't work in the long run. Personally, I forsee the Centauri ultimately withering away to a third rate power until they're forced to join another Empire / Alliance to maintain their standard of living.
On the Centauri collaborating with the Dilgar that was a Narn allegation. Even after the Dilgar War the EA had cordial relations with the Centauri Republic. The Centauri only claimed Earth was a lost colony. Earth didn't bite on that due to genetic comparison and peleontological evidence.
How did EA get that genetic information? My theory: they got one of the Centauri drunk and hired a hooker. The moment he undid his vest, she knew that they weren't even remotely human. But being resolute and patriotic and under contract, she collect that sperm sample anyhow.
@@nathanielhellerstein5871 blood or skin. either would be easier
The centauri did back the Dilgar. Its why Londo voted no on the Deathwalker tribunal. The Centuari handed over a Narn colony world that was under Centauri control. This world was then used as a staging ground to attack the races that would later make the league of non aligned worlds.
it was a clerical error. a sign of Imperial decline
@toomanyaccounts
Yeah you don't need to risk personnel like that.
Landon was so much fun... I think the individual Centauri characters were my favorite. Much like Quark was in DS9... Of course for different reasons.
Hey Lore, when you get a chance, can you do a breakdown of the ships/technology the Centauri used to produce the mass drivers that evil Emperor used to re-subjugate the Narn before the Shadow War? It's always been fascinating that they were portrayed like space nukes, but were also charged asteroids. Thanks in advance and keep up the great work
I can save him some effort.
A Mass Driver is a simple kinetic strike weapon. It has no explosives...just "mass" as the name implies. Since the mass of a kinetic kill weapon is a constant, the only variable is acceleration, so force yield on impact is directly related to how fast the Centauri could get the projectile moving.
Narn was bombarded with two types of mass drivers, the first being good ole fashioned asteroids that we're likely towed in from somewhere in the system and set on a collision course with the planet to cause widespread damage; these would be the ones to cause the most ecoligical damage, and could easily approach extinction-level events (depending on size and speed.)
The second type were the ones seen being fired from the Centauri warships. Given the size of Centauri Battlecruisers, these would be relatively small (probably no bigger than twice the size of your car) dense spheres. These would be the "tactical" weapons with damage equivalency of nuclear weapons due to their smaller size and MUCH slower velocity at impact. The "charging up" you see serves three purposes:
1. Launch - If a sphere is set to rotating (even in a vacuum) then any forward momentum applied (such as a magnetic rail system) will more easily translate into forward velocity due to centrifugal force helping to counteract inertia.
2. Travel - A rotating object would more easily traverse an atmosphere on its way down, again because the centrifugal force would help counteract the air resistance and help to keep the projectile on target.
3. Destructive Power - The rotation of the projectile is technically Kinetic Energy (because it is in motion) but in the (loosely) closed system of the projectile in flight into a gravity well, it also counts as Potential Energy; that is, any rotation not lost to air resistance MUST be dispersed by the ground on impact...thus causing more damage than a non-rotating projectile and adding to the destruction on impact. So, your description of "charging them up" isn't really wrong.
Hi Andrew, thank you so much for that thorough reply. That was better explained than I even hoped for by Lore lol. While the tactical weapons make sense, I do find it interesting that the Centauri would use asteroids that could cause extinction-level damage. Its been awhile since I saw the episode, but I remember that the Emperor always intended for the Narn to be resubjugated, not exterminated. While eliminating a species' homeworld isn't necessarily completely genocidal if they are a space-faring society, it still runs the risk of destroying that species natural location for healing should a mass epidemic occur. I just find it interesting that he would run this risk, despite how completely insane he was, considering how much he wanted to reconquer the Narn. Just a random musing. Thank you again for taking the time to give such a well-thought out and in-depth reply.
Since Cartagia was a Nero-analog, he was patently insane; as such, he would very often say one thing and do another.
In Cartagia speak, "subjugating" the Narn just happened to mean "subjugating whatever happened to be left over." He intended to push the Narn to the brink of extinction since a tiny population is easier to control than a massive one. Given the Narn history of rebellion and guerilla warfare, another insurrection was a foregone conclusion, so a population of a couple hundred thousand is far less likely to successfully rebel than a population of several billion.
The Emperor even hinted at wiping the Narn out completely in time...he just wanted to enjoy himself first.
So, to Cartagia, mass drivers made perfect sense since Narn had already been plundered of its natural resources during the previous occupation; the Centauri weren't there for slaves or resources because you don't use mass drivers on real estate you want to occupy.
The Centauri reoccupied Narn for pride, vengance, dominance, and extermination.
And the look on Londos face when he realized what he had done was heart breaking
Nicely done. On the political arrangement of the Centauri Republic, as well as much of the internal political conflict, I think this fictional empire was based on the Roman Empire, notably the Julio-Claudian dynasty. Yes, there was an emperor, Octavian now Augustus, who wielded absolute power, but technically he was just "first citizen" within the restored "republic" - albeit a first citizen with legions behind him, popular support, and a weakened Senate. This parallel works better than the more modern constitutional monarchies we've seen, such as in the UK/British Empire. And the ancient Romans continued to see themselves as a republic, even though most of the elite knew that they no longer lived in an oligarchy but a autocracy that gave a nod to the great houses of Rome (and that kind of fits the Centauri). The ancient Roman parallel also fits the "mad emperor" motif (Cartagia is a wonderfully acted articulation of Caligula; even the names are similar to the ear). The use of poison, assassination, and military expansion to create glory and unity at home all fit the ancient Romans. Even the "Great Houses" nicely parallels the elite ruling class of the patricians ("fathers" of the republic) (more than the political house system of the Klingons in TNG Star Trek). Watching the Centauri Republic in B5 almost feels like a science fiction walk though Suetonius. :)
I think it was on the DVD interviews, its been awhile since I watched them, but Word of god as the Centauri expanded too aggressively and enthusiastically so they had huge swathes of territories but a low population. For example, there were only hundred of millions on Centauri prime compared to the 6 billion on Corriana VI which the Army of Light chooses to defend in the final battle between the Vorlons and the Shadows
I remember someone about that. That of all the major powers the centauri had fewer people on their homeworld then others
There was three billion on Centauri Prime.
Also the Dilgar bears a somewhat likeness with the Kilrathi from Wingcommander.
I noticed that to..
Oh yeah.
But not the film version. We do not speak it's name 😉
Agreed the games only.
One thing I liked about the games were that it had a good story and good characters and considering the technology of the time was like a mini movies especially three and four
Should really do more of these. Huge B5 fan and find there is a lack of B5 lore on UA-cam.
Thanks!
Well done Lore! Nice video the hard work paid off!
I got the impression from the series that Straczynski (sorry about the spelling) based the Centauri on the Roman Empire. You can see shreds of the good elements in their culture in characters like Emperor Turhan, Urza Jaddo, and Vir Cotto, but ultimately the worst elements of their nature wins out, exemplified by Londo Molari, Lord Refa, and Emperor Cartagia. At the end of season five I pretty much assumed that the Centauri were doomed (especially considering that their Regent and Emperor Molari became puppets of the Drakh) . Anything good resulting from Vir Coto's rule as Emperor will probably be short-lived. Like the Romans the Centauri aren't perfect, but their greed and short-sightedness will be the destruction of their race in the long run. Great video though. B5's a great addition to Lored Reloaded.
Actually its said in official side cannon that Vir actually saved the empire and in his rule remodeled the empire off of Earth's old British parliament.
@@barrybend7189 thanks for the update. In spite of their behavior in the series I actually like the Centauri. It's great if they can pull out of the nosedive, especially after the Drakh infiltrated Centauri Prime after the destruction of Z'hadum.
@@jamesburke3413 yeah an somehow Vir or flounder because the actor who played as him in animal house is actually the most liked character in B5 (gerabaldy is close second).
I dont view the shadows as being TOTALLY wrong, so the drahk may end up being important. Wish they would have made more.
"Who decides that the work day is from 9 to 5 instead of 11 to 4? Who decides that the hemlines will be below the knee this year, and short again next year? Who draws up the borders, controls the currency, handles all the decisions that happen transparently around us? I'm with them. Same group, different department." - Justin
One must like the Centauri and Londo in particular is admirable. The nearest the B5 universe gets to a combo of the Roman Republic and post-Victorian British Empire
Didn't first contact with the Centauri begin with a lie? They told the humans that they invented jump gates.
I know they claimed the humans were a lost colony.. creating jumpgates? Maybe.. I don't remember that
@@LoreReloaded they claimed common genetic ancestry which Londo explains as a "clerical error".
Dude I love these lore video's keep up the awesome work
The Centauri were bad guys, that's the main reason the Shadow approach them, and when Kosh revealed himself Londo didn't see anything, because the Vorlons never went to Centauri Prime; perhaps because it was already being influenced by the Shadows.
Great video and I hope to see more. I really saw them as shelled after the British Empire. Pushing out with the strongest Navy to the farthest reaches and establishing "colonies". (Would that make the Narn America!?) You are right though it's also a mix of the Roman Empire with their celebrations.
This is apart of a completed series
The balance of power changed radically during the time frame of the series. At the beginning, emperor Turhan did very little day to day governing and was ruled very similar to Queen Victoria. By the end of the series ambitious factions (Lord Reva) put a puppet emperor in charge and moved the power away from the centarum and back to the throne. Then Molari had Reva killed and Cartagia went sideways on them. So basically a complete unwind of a slow moving stable (stagnant) Republic.
The Race The Centari killed Was Called Zahn NOT Zonos. This information is in the show itself.
The Centauri down to even their style in modeled around the Early Republic in France under Napoleon and just as unstable.
Something I'm really wondering about is how exactly First Contact between the Centauri and the Humans went and why the former didn't try to conquer the latter, considering what happened with the Narn. Was it because Earth was just too far away from Centauri Space, or maybe only because Humans just look so similar?
Anyway, it would be interesting, as it was Humanities first contact with Alien Life in this universe.
The Centauri by the time of Babylon 5 are something akin to The Byzantine Empire when the western Roman Empire had collapsed, and Byzantium had all kinds of aspirations of one day reclaiming the western empire, even going so far as to support barbarian armies in a kind of chess game, hoping they'd weaken each other enough for the Byzantines to step in, and reclaim it all. By the time the Vandals swept down into North Africa, and took over the remaining vestiges of Roman, and Carthaginian civilization that they hoped to reclaim, they realized their dream of "Making The Mediterranean 'a Roman lake' again" was never going to happen.
And the Centauri race was one of the last races to
eventually evolve .
Great video but the alien race they celebrate victory over was called the "Zahn" not the Zonos.
I can't believe you didn't mention that the Centauri have 6 you know whats, each one is used to reach a new level of pleasure :)
Resources I looked up called them the Xonos and that's what I thought they said? I definitely could be wrong
I just stuck the dvd in & jumped to the scene in "parliament of dreams" where they get mentioned, Londo, Vir & Garibaldi all mention the race by name & it's Zahn (or Zan, I've no idea about the spelling).
I think your resources made a mistake, either that or the Mandela effect is real lol
"Do you know what the last Xon said just before he died? "Aaaaauggghh!!!"" - Londo Mollari
babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/Xon
what did the last zarn say?
arrrrrrrrrrr
Xon?
The Centauri were fairly benevolent as far as expansionist empire go, at least in their Golden Age. After annexing you, they would just tax you but would protect and uplift you technologically in return. The Narn situation was different of course, because they resisted so much, making the Centauri oppress them harder in return, weary of showing weakness their age of decline. In their Golden Age, the Centauri were more of a force for good, considering that they fought and defeated the Orieni, which were the Dilgar of their age, being a powerful and extremely xenophobic and genocidal expansionist empire. I would say that the Centauri were less dangerous/malevolent than then the Minbari because they are not religious fanatics and haven't tried to exterminate an entire race over a bad first contact incident. Before the Dilgar build their conquest fleet, many of their officers got their training by serving as mercenaries in the Centauri Royal Navy.
What and where have you read anything about Babylon 5, were their books about the series, if so, where can I find them, if you know?
i think the entire babylon 5 series was a fantastic space opera and as such does not bear serious thought or discussion.
enjoy it as it was,i did
Yeah he was
Why is there no Narn Lore videos?
Babylon 5 is a big bite of science fiction to chew, man. I know how much you had to gloss over as I've been a fan since it first aired. This is just my own takes on the show and I am in no way trying to insult all your hard work on this video series. I very much enjoy them and just wanted to add my two bits.
While I understand trying to relate various elements to Trek as it's more widespread and easier to relate to a wider audience, it is actually much more complex than a simple race to race comparison. If you were to compare the races directly the Mimbari are very different than Vulcans, instead, try Romulans as they're closer in mentality would be a better match. The Centari are very unlike any Trek comparisons as they're modeled after the older form of the Roman Empire, complete with a representation of an insane Caligula. Earth itself is an interesting governmental construct, but what they don't really go too much into, at least in the show, is that every country still exists, as does the U.N. Just Earthdom is the combined effort of the countries of Earth to be the head of a government outside of Earth itself. The Mars rebellion episodes show that very well. The countries of Earth, unfortunately, still go to war with each other... At least until an alien race bloodies Earths' nose, then afterwards they go right back to it.
The story of Babylon-5 was all about Londo Mollari and his love for Centauri-Prime.
My god... look at their HAIR. It is... its... glorious.
It's unlikely that Vir restored the Centauri...
"They are a dying people, we should let them die."
Vorlons don't fuck around.
maybe the borg one day will walk in and take every scrap of tech centauris have then assimilate them.
Where does all this come from ? Babylon 5 books ?
Books, series, and movie
Londo had I think more bright spots than dark ones in his character.
But Vir was all but totally imaculate as the one "dark" deed he ever comitted (Apart from waving mischievously at Morden's severed head) was to stab Emperor Cartagia to death, was a necessary evil.
In general I also have zero sympathy for this race...
They have big tails 😮😮😮
You can call them a Noble Republic.
Do you understand this show. No, I can see by the vacant look on your face that says, "hold my head to you ear and you will hear the sea" that you do not....
This is a tv show!? Stop watching stuff you dont like
How are you finding it lore?
It's good ain't. Immersing. Multi episodic story arcs. Good characters etc
I had to watch it twice to appreciate it. In fact I was gonna buy it with my next paycheck
I don't understand it's a if Earth got technology how come they didn't have gravity ships where they still had to have a rotating section and what have you I don't understand why I don't like the way it ended
It might have been something not sold to them..
Yeah supposedly... thats the New Republic or SOMETIMES Starfleet id say..
I love the Centauris. They tried to guide Humans, but unfortunately they were arrogance and stupidity in one package.
How, exactly, are the Centauri worse than......basically any empire in Human history, including the US?
The atrocities committed by the Centauri pale in comparison to what, say, Rome, Babylonia, China, etc, did. Not to mention that most of those atrocities were committed during times of war, a concept Americans and Brits should pause a little before the point out - keeping Dresden in mind. When it comes to the Xon (not "Xonos"), this was a fight for survival, and it was one or the other. Whether this could have been prevented by both sides giving and taking a little at an earlier date is irrelevant. The war was on, and it was a matter of either one party survives, or the other, not both. Under those circumstances, you can hardly blame the Centauri.
And, again, if this makes the Centauri Republic malevolent for all time, then let's take a long, hard, look at the US, Germany, the UK, Sweden, etc.
I will admit that I have not read any of the B5-books, only watched the show, so if I've missed something vital in the books, do let me know.
But what do you base the claim that the Centauri protectorates are not actually protectorates, but slaves on? Because I don't remember anything from the show that would hint at this, though, to be fair, the show doesn't go into too many details on the matter.
Hence why I referenced the books, because there might be something there.
They also have the best sandwich filler: spoo.
Being a republic while having a monarch makes no sense. Hopefully this will be fixed with the reboot.
0:40 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Their society focused too much on hair spray and not enough on baldness prevention.
Evil thought: are the Centauri a representation of a particular form of the USA?
No
Londo is still the best written, acted, and relatable/tragic character I've seen in Sci Fi. Peter Jurasik is a legend.
HEAR, HEAR!
*love* Londo and the posh, rich, lush Centauri culture.
Jurasik was a driving force behind fine-tuning what the Centauri would be, much like Leonard Nimoy was to the Vulcans.
It could have very easily been cartoonishly foolish, but he still maintained a pompous dignity and clear deep respect for the Centauri Republic's past, and what its future could be.
Lesser actors would have been turned into a caricature like the Ferengi who never took off in any real way as far as adversaries with gravitas as intended.
Peter Jurasik just oozes Old World style charm and wit with ulterior motives always being played.
Brilliant!
Completely agree. Have always thought B5 was a Greek Tragedy, with Londo losing everything that ever meant anything to him, due to his choosing the easy way to his goals.
@@alanparsonsfan G'Kar got what he wanted, but at the cost of his eye and his life.
Londo got what he wanted, but at the cost of his soul and eventually the Republic.
Vir got what he wanted....AT THE COST OF MORDEN'S HEAD! AND HE WAS THE ONLY ONE HAPPY WITH WHAT HE GOT!
Considering most of the acting in B5 was at the daytime TV soap opera level it was painfully obvious who the stand out actors were. Sadly he was a diamond in a bag of coal. I enjoyed B5, but it always a little disappointed when the emersion was broken by bad acting....
In many ways the story of Londo Mollari IS the story of Babylon 5.
Londo is probably the best tragic figure I've seen in sci fi. His empathy and compassion are there but he ultimately sabotages himself because of his flaws and fears. He truly loved his people and non-Centauri friends but consistently chose power and influence over them. He doomed himself and was responsible for uncounted deaths but was still able to redeem himself (a bit, depending on point of view). Plus...he was just such a likable bastard, wasn't he?
As he said he was a patriot. yes he loved power but not just for himself but for the good of the Republic above all. He was a good man that made mistakes and did his best to correct them.
He's a Faustian character in the end. His ambition was his undoing.
He dances on the line,which makes him the most human figure, despite that he's not one. YOu see it that way, but I see his heart kept his most based character from going to far. Plus he got his wish when he died.
Garibaldi: "Sure, he was a pain in the neck, but he was our pain in the neck,"
The way Londo used Vir in "And the Rock Cried Out" was actually probably one of his most evil acts (in the "one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic" kind of way). I always felt like the consequences of that betrayal should have had long lasting consequences for their relationship, but Vir seems to be over it right away. I get that Vir is used to being treated poorly by Londo, but even Vir recognized Londo crossed a line with that. At least for a few minutes, then back to being like nothing happened! What a waste of a possible plot point.
In the Gathering: Londo Mollari: "We were pretty good sharks ourselves once...
...but somehow...
...along the way...
...we forgot how to bite.
There was a time... ...when this whole quadrant belonged to us.
What are we now?
Twelve worlds and a thousand monuments to past glories...
...living off memories and stories...
...selling trinkets.
My God, man...
...we've become a tourist attraction. See the great Centauri Republic...
...open 9:00 to 5:00...
...Earth time."
Or better yet study the history of every great nation and Empire on earth. The rise of a untied people harden to be great and achieving it. Later as the pampered decendants weaken by the rich's earned by their ancestors, ruin their world to past history of another's histories book.
No! All roads lead AWAY from Rome, but sometimes people walk in the wrong direction.
Could be an analogy for the present day United Kingdom... merrie old England sort of thing... with a capital designed for a world empire.
@@ahtaimo with the members of the UK commonwealth as the representations of Centauri 12 worlds.. and never ending stories of past of glorius achievements..
you're spot on..
Reminds you a bit of the british, doesnt it?
the thing about B5 (and one of the MAJOR reasons why i loved that show) is that the "bad guys" weren't always bad, and the "good guys" weren't always good.
Babylon 5 was one of the first series I saw that was so grey, not good or bad, people on all sides had their own agenda and needs and sometime this made them do things that were both good and bad.
In Star Trek things are always seen as black and white but in real life that is just so not true. Babylon 5 does not look at things in black and white so stays true to real life.
@@MrStephen182 DS9 came the closest to showing how different sides in star trek could be "greyish". but then, DS9 was a semi-rip-off of B5 after all (albeit a darned good one!).
Indeed.
It's was all about how different cultures can work together, but doing so takes effort and sacrifice.
My opinion - since you asked :) - is that the Centauri Republic was doing good and was the dominant power in space (Excepting the Minbari, with whom they seemed to have little-to-no contact), and probably held that position for a long time. Things seem to have started going wrong when they took over the Narn. That resulted pretty obviously in a century-long Vietnam, which ate up resources and probably all-but-bankrupted them. Speculation on my part: I wouldn't be surprised if they were selling off worlds to pay for it. Here endeth speculation.
When they discovered earth a century prior to the show, that war was still going on, and they seem to me to have already become very cautious. First they said we were long lost brothers. Then they said whoopsie, our mistake. Then they sold Jumpgate access/technology. They seem (To me) to have been conscientiously trying to avoid making more enemies, and seem very interested in trade, since their economy was probably in the crapper.
Since we're told Emperor Turhan's father committed atrocities against the Narn, and Turhan himself is pretty innocent, it seems to me that it must have been Emperor Turhan who finally admitted defeat and ended the occupation of Narn 40 or 50 years before the start of the show. This might explain why nobody seems terribly broken up about his death: He cost them the war.
In "The Gathering," Londo says "Come see the mighty Centauri Republic, a dozen worlds and a million monuments to past glories. Open nine-to-five, earth time." By the time the show ends, the Republic is actually *smaller* than the Earth Alliance!
"Do you know why I am here? I'm here to grovel before your wonderful Earth Alliance, in hopes of attaching ourselves to your destiny, like... what are those fish called on your planet that attach themselves to sharks?"
"Ramoras."
"Yes. You make very good sharks Mr. Garibaldi. We were pretty good sharks ourselves, once - but somehow, along the way, we forgot how to bite. There was a time, when this whole quadrant belonged to us! What are we now? Twelve worlds and a thousand monuments to past glories, living off memories, stories, selling trinkets. My god man, we've become a tourist attraction!
"See the great Centauri Republic, open 9 to 5, Earth time."
- Londo and Garibaldi
The Gathering
It's no wonder the race would be a bit macabre given that one of their unique racial traits (besides having six sex organs) is that they seem to have some sort of vision or dream of their deaths their whole lives. When you're that fatalistically and overwhelmingly aware of your own mortality, you have two choices: live it up while you can, or be a blessing to others and try to leave the universe a better place. The Centauri as a race seem to have chosen the former.
I like to believe that Vir pulled the centari back from the brink of utter ruin, abandoning expansionism and focusing more on internal growth and cultural development.
The innocent streak he managed to protect his whole life would be well suited to healing his people.
You are wrong about the relationship between centauri and the humans. When the humans meet the centauri, their republic was already in decline. The centauri only had a handful of systems and they weren't planning to have the humans destroy themselves. They were only looking toward commerce. Londo warned the humans not to go into minbari space, not to bother them, the humans didn't listen.
If you got that impression then I need to work on my video structure as that wasnt my intent.
I got the impression that you think the centauri were still warlike or into conquering when they meet the humans. The centuari weren't interested in conquest anymore at that point, mainly because of their old emperor who felt sorry for all the war his empire caused. He is an old softy at heart and I think that's one of the reasons why the empire had declined during his reign.
@ Lore Reloaded
I thought you was saying the same thing about the Centauri.
Arrogance "travels between stars, like solar winds," according to Londo Mollari.
Lore Reloaded, Yeah it definitely did sound like you were putting Human contact in the Golden Age period. Glad you recognize that truth is a three edged sword. :P
Personally, I love the Centauri. Their arrogance and penchant for intrigue make them one of the best things about Babylon 5. Without this stellar nation, the series would have been less remarkable than it is.
I love this newfound channel. The perfect mix of wisdom and wit and sci-fi. Carry on!
They are great and aesthetically great. I mean the primus
There is no good or evil or all beings are both. I think the narrator of this video didn't get that point. Narn Was both cause and victim of atrocities. This series sort of did the same as star wars and take taoist belief, but screwed it up. In the end I think they showed that both the dark was not evil either. That the younger races was victem of their older brothers fighting. Even the Mimbari had it's evil times.
Indeed with the worker caste caught in between the others though the religious caste the wiser than the warrior caste
Sounds like the Aristocracy of old in Europe. Intrigue, assassinations - usually using poison - and arranged marriages
The Centauri represent the old European powers, diminished but proud, shadows of their former glory but stronger than than they knew, sidelined but determined to rebuild their influence.
the emperor has dissolved the Senate permanently, the last pretensions of the centeuri "republic" have been swept away.
Quick note: Centauri Prime is not in the Alpha Centauri system.
The Centari became powerful and then rested on their laurels. By the time of Babylon 5, the Emperor was holding the Centari back from their worst instincts as a way of penace. He tried to help the Barn. But the Narn didn't realize that and started poking the bear. With the declining health of the Emperor, The Centari would get the chance to go back to their old ways and the Narn would suffer for their own decisions (poking the bear)
The narn were top arrogant. They didn't realize that the centauri would fight back eventually.
*laurels
freaking autocorrect. Thank you
You gotta admit lore everyone loves vir
He's the one guy who was satisfied with the wish he got from Morden.
I know right. And that smile he does. Just like he promised.
Vir showed wisdom that alas Londo lacked till the end but londo was still a compelling character though vir was the one the centauri needed to lead them 😀
Agreed. Vir was the one guy trying to warn Londo to avoid working with Morden. He also set up the Narn underground railroad with the alias of "Abrahamo Lincolni". He apologized to G'Kar before he became more enlightened. Vir was the innocent heart of the show, and maybe outside of DeLenn and Dr. Franklin, could be the kindest member of the entire cast, IMO.
Agreed. That tripartate. Though delenn only learned after the mistake of the war. Not saying that she was bad beforehand but she learned the lesson of making a decision in the heat of the moment.
Vir was the closest thing to the purest soul on the show
To be fair londo didn't know the primus battlecruisers were fitted with mass drivers and when he saw the bombardment even he was disgusted
To me the Centauri paralleled the Roman Empire but with a far happier potential outcome.
A lot of the issue with the Centauri being the baddies is by the end of the series they were supposed to be redeemed (And in the Series Finale that takes place like 20 years later it's kinda implied with Vir that they are). When rumors that the show was going to be cancelled early hit, JMS rushed many story elements (the Shadow War was supposed to last through all of S4, and not just the first few episodes; the Earth Civil War was supposed to be the entirety of S5, etc).
One of these story elements that got rushed was the redeeming of Londo. That's why he goes so quickly from being a dick to best buds with G'Kar in S4. Then when the show got a surprise renewal and was granted a S5 that JMS didn't think it was getting, he and the writers had to rush to patch stuff together. And suddenly Londo and the Centauri are back to being the bad guys again. (Season 5 as a whole is a mixed bag, you can tell it's sort of an epilogue, but plot threads brought up or brought back in S5 are never really given their full justice, looking at you Telepath War).
Exactly what happened
It's a shame because I love just about every episode up until the end of the Shadow War, then it becomes a mix of ok and good
We know the Drakh was not kicked off Centauri Prime until after Londo's death. And I'm not certain Vir was able to kick them off Centauri Prime either. What we do know is that Emperor Vir guided the Republic into a period of reconstruction - restoring the bureaucracy, manufacturing, distribution and infrastructure. But Vir was also hated by the Centaurum and the people for having a moral code peculiar to most Centauri.
The story arc of the Centauri Republic could have remained interesting for generations.
01:57 No, the "Republic" was only founded after long genocidal war with the Xon (not the Xonos). 04:20 Where is your source for this? I've seen every episode and read all the novels and haven't seen anything about such a plan. 05:14 Where did you get the idea the Centauri helped out the Dilgar????
01:57... did I day centauri republic or did I say centauri empire? Bonus question... did I state the republic was formed after the war later in the episode?
05:15 - season 1.. when they talk about the dilgar at a narn planet.
well the centauri were selling weapons to the dilgar, so were the narns.
David, I'm a massive B5 fan. Not read all the novels but I have read the Centauri trilogy and it's 100% mentioned in one of them. The plan to allow humanity to destroy itself. I was a bit shocked to read that as It doesn't tie in with Emperor Turhan's style. Probably a Lord Rifa idea floated into the Centarum lol
nicoj84 this makes Refa’s death all the more hilarious if true
I surprised you did not get through the series without some appreciation for the Centauri.
I have to say the redeeming things about the Centauri are:
1) Charisma and fun loving. They seem to be a people who can enjoy themselves.
2) The Centauri are often tricky but rarely malevolent. Centauri have no qualms about using low cost manipulations and schemes on everyone. But when it comes to the high cost ones that denote a dedicated anger or hatred of another, they shy away from them.
3) The Centuari are willing to sacrifice much for the sake of their people. There are a strong sense of patriotism in all of them.
There is nothing, and I mean nothing to appreciate about the Centauri. Like all who in slave others, I hate them.
@@MrStephen182 but many cultures are based on being slavers. The American South still has a sense of deep pride and identity on starting a horrifically destructive war to protect their right to be slavers. Many Southerners still identify strongly with this cause and see the destruction of a statue of a historical slaver as one of the worst crimes possible (unlike slavery, which they see as wonderful)
los centauri son tan humanos
The Centauri. Best hair in science fiction.
The Centauri were very stagnant. At the time of the series, Centauri ship designs had been unchanged for hundreds of years.
The vorchan was new and reasonable design in packs but yes I agree with you.
Despite being old the primus battlecruiser was still one of the most powerful ships of the young races
@@alanmike6883 - Amongst the younger races only they and the Minbari had gravity drives.
@Aung Un'Rama
Kinda like a Japanese zero. Built for offense and not defence
@@iainhowe4561
Indeed another advantage
This is not important info but just some minor bits of info. The centauri over the course of many years sent many expeditions to Vorlon space and none of them returned.
The Earth Alliance sent three expeditions over the years and the Vorlons said they had met with "accidents" and suggested no further expditions. - Ep And Now For A Word.
The Centauri obviousy respects the Minbari and Londo said when the Centauri Republic were expanding in all directions they never opposed the Minbari. And given how the Earth-Minbari War went you can understand why the Centauri does not want to be on the Minbari's bad side.
And also there are canon RPG books I think that may add some more tidbits to the Centauri Republic. Can't remember what the books were called. But they have been mentioned a lot in the VS debattes on Spacebattles.com forums.
Nobody wants to be on the Minbari's bad side. That side is in front of them. If you value your life, be somewhere else.
The Centauri were clearly a reference to the British Empire. As well as having a good nod to the Roman Empire.
Yes either pre ww2 or post depending on you point of view
Both really imho. At the end, just like the British Empire, in decline. I say that as a Brit.
Indeed. Speaking as a brit too.
It was very reminiscent to the fall.
Like the withdrawal of narn could be seen as India or the last effort for a independent policy during the suez crises. After which after the USA forced a back down, everything became downsized like the fleet which would close stations east of East, and eventually led to present day.
I say in a way the centauri under vir would be like the uk today In a way
Do you remember that famous markab episode. That was sad
I expect the Centauri had a hell of a lot more than 4 colonies.
That's why I said 'atleast' ...couldn't confirm more than 4
I realise that - I'm not intending to attack you by saying this -
You do have me wondering though if Londo did ever mention anything more specific about the "Great Days of the Republic" that would give us a better idea.
By the time of B5 I don't think anyone has triple digit numbers of colonies - not even the Vorlon or Shadows. Perhaps there simply isn't that many habitable worlds or the ones there are are to remote to be easily defended.
Not much use having a colony that takes many months to get to in Hyperspace really. Though the Universe seems a bit bigger an more populated in Crusade to me.
The centauri had the firepower and manpower and resources but not the Will
I didnt taken it negative..sorry if I seemed defensive
@@90lancaster crusade was a disaster lol
Space Napoleon era France.
Basically true
I kept saying that but people kept disagreeing that they're not Space French.
Some say they more like the Italian or Prussian.
I think they are supposed to be a mashup of several different Imperialist nations from around the same time, but their goverment and social structure is more like that of classical period Rome with an Emperor and a senate composed of hereditary nobility and only the barest fig-leaf of republicanism
@@AlexSDU well Napoleon was technically not French but was actually Italian. Wierd fact but good to know.
Corsican to be precise but ...
There was the time the centauri got tired of war for a while plus the emperor wanted more peaceful measures.
But when the centauri met humanity they definitely weren't like they used to be. I say they could still fight but lacked the will.
Like they are compare to the British Empire in decline but the Roman Empire when it expanded and the bit about fighting you could use the final years of the Vietnam War about losing the will.
Great video. Thanks for getting into Babylon 5.
They may be supposed to be aliens, but the Centauri are the most accurate depiction of humans in all of scifi.
Ironically, the least accurate depiction of humans are the Humans from Star Trek.
Are they humans or aliens?
I always assumed they are like a break away human colony or human empire with shitty hairdos. like space french
The Centauri Republic is modeled on the Republic of Venice - which had a quasi-monarch (the Doge) elected from the city's nobility by the ruling council (the Great Council). The entire aesthetic for the Centauri is very much Renaissance Italian - Venice's golden age.
Wait. Babylon five has technomancers?
technomages
@@TentaclePentacle techpriest. Same diff!
not the same, technomages know they are bullshiting, they just pretend it's magic. While technopriest actually believe it's magic and pray over their machines.
Michael Ansara no less
Basically a union of Iron man/doctor who hybrids
"See the great Centauri Republic, open 9:00 to 5:00 . . . Earth time." - Londo Mollari.
Good hours
It really hit home how deep they had fallen.
"My god man! We've become a tourist attraction!" - Londo Mollari
We all know the Centauri fell is due to their terrible hair styles. I mean, how do you expect to keep an empire with that hair?
You "fan" it bwahahahaa
In Valen's name, my sides! XD
Lmao
That was a very good outline of Centari and its set up to B5. Well done and your right as you get more into the series alot more of the nuances will flush out. 8 alway thought of the Centari as the instigators backroom dealing. Causing and letting others fight things out while setting back trying to portray innocent.
Sadly in the end, neither the Centauri or Narn ascended. As Kosh said sorrowfully and I paraphrase, "They are lost. You should let them die" This downfall was evident from the beginning.....
They are not extinct the technology of both races are in the same level of Earth and Minbar. But they never ascend to energy being levels.
I'm sorry I wasn't clear, That's what I meant BUT I swear I read that they do both go extinct but I'm probably wrong on that part. :)
Eventually yes. Nothing can live forever except a evolved energy being. 😀
Kosh said to Sheridan, "Theirs is a dying race. It is likely we will let them pass." Sheridan responded by asking, "You mean the Centari or the Narn?" Kosh only said, "Yes."
The Centauri encapsulate both the best and worst extremes of humanity.
Ah the great Centauri Republic the lion of the galaxy all done with the aide of wine, women and song now thats how to live
Of course they deserve sympathy - as much sympathy as the other younger races who were caught in the machinations of the Old Ones...they were Shadow surrogates as much as the Minbari were Vorlon proxies and humanity their unwitting stalking horse.
agreed.
I have on original DVD disc all 5 seasons of Babylon 5 and some movies from the series here in my apartmen ☺ The actor who played Sebastian in one of the episodes of Babylon 5 played various characters in B5 too ☺ Yes, I mean the actor Wayne Alexander He played these in the B5 series :
Babylon 5
Guest Starring, "Comes the Inquisitor," (8 August 1995) - Sebastian
Featuring, "And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place," (8 September 1996) - G'Dan
Guest Starring, "The Hour of the Wolf," (4 November 1996) - Lorien
Guest Starring, "Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?," (11 November 1996) - Lorien
Guest Starring, "The Summoning," (18 November 1996) - Lorien
Guest Starring, "Falling Toward Apotheosis," (25 November 1996) - Lorien
Guest Starring, "The Long Night," (27 January 1997) - Lorien
Guest Starring, "Into the Fire," (3 February 1997) - Lorien
Guest Starring, "Intersections in Real Time," (16 June 1997) - Drazi Prisoner
Guest Starring, "Movements of Fire and Shadow," (17 June 1998) - Drakh
Guest Starring, "The Fall of Centauri Prime," (28 October 1998) - Drakh
Guest Starring, "Sleeping in Light," (25 November 1998) - Lorien
TV Movies
Guest Starring, "River of Souls," Soul One
Guest Starring, "A Call to Arms," Drakh
Alot of "protectorate/allies" amd only a handfull of ACTUAL colonies doesnt seem like much of an empirr at all. Unlike any of the franchises like Halo, Mass Effect, and ESPECIALLY the older franchises like Star Wars, Trek an Dune for example who ALL have huge territory and so many colonies they need lists and massive infastructures, and security/military forces to keep track of, support and control them all. If all they had was only a handful and were so bad at alliances that they couldnt keep peace, not really, id imagine the other franchises would be rollin around on the floor laughing at such an idea of an empire. That makes alot the lesz techno advanced factions like Halos UNSC an Mass Effect races for example seem huge and powerful with vast empires by comparison even though their technology compared to races like the Membari, Klingons or a random SW race for example are WAY more technology advanced.
Colonies don't define you as an empire, it just means that your nation is expanding. To actually be an empire, your nation needs to have some form of actual control over _other_ nations: any princeling can be acclaimed by peasants, it takes the obeisance of kings to mark an emperor.
Jared Maddox yeah how one runs some kinda territory defines if and how someone is or isnt an empire. BUT clearly the Membari didnt have any of that. Not really. Sounds like at best the headed more an alliance. But most time were fairly weak in the protection and leadership roles in addition to the said lack of supporting infastructures that made them barely an empire worthy of the name.
This is a video about the Centauri, did you really mean to refer to the Minbari instead?
At any rate, the Minbari's isolationism suggests they likely didn't have many, if any, subordinate races, and their government is actually refered to as a _federation_ . The Centauri, meanwhile, are known to have conquered the Narn, and likely several other races, before encountering humanity: calling them an empire makes some sense.
OK, liked and subscribed. That was excellent. I do have some comments I want to make, unfortunately I don't have the time right now, but I will come back to you in a day or two. I'll just say, in conclusion, that B5 was the best science fiction TV series ever done, even surpassing Star Trek, and it is very unfortunate that the suits, in not allowing it to be syndicated, and greatly delaying and minimizing its video release, prevented it from becoming as big a cultural phenomenon as Star Trek is. It could have been.
The race that shared the homeworld with the Centari was the XON ...NOT the Zone-ass. Geeze Louise. Watch the show first before posting. Smh.
Well they were ants in an area where elephants fight. Vorlons and the shadows. Everyone was a victim in that serial. They were all puppet in the shadow vorlon fight. They real could not have done any better. But it could have been worse. At least they survive other races were wiped out.
One of the things I think is hilarious about the Centauri is that they are anime h***** tentacle monsters. From space! It was revealed in Babylon 5 and no one noticed.
I find it interesting that of all the species the Vorlons interfered, the Centauri were the few species to not seem them angelic. Maybe the Vorlons realizing they are such a chaotic species they decide to leave them to the Shadows.
raw666 I always thought that event spoke more to Londo being touched by darkness than his people not seeing vorlans back in the day.
Curious if any other maker religions were there that day and what they saw
I always thought it was more due to a telepathic marker since all the species describe seeing the Vorlons as an angelic form that resembled their species, but Londo said when asked what he saw, he said nothing. I think he meant that while the other species had a telepathic link to see the Vorlons as benevolent, he saw them as nothing but shadows that one cannot see. So the Vorlans either did not bother to put a telepathic link the Centauri to see them as benevolent, or Londo saw them for what they are really are, smoke and mirrors to deceive the other species into being benevolent.
Londo was influenced by the Shadows.It was this that started Londo to question his choices so maybe Kosh intentionally didn't appear to Londo to nudge him in the right direction
I think Centauris lack telepaths. After Narn bombed Centauri Prime, all the powers found out that the Centauri was being controlled, they cent Telepaths to help them.
Sorry but the Centauri has telepaths - they accompany the Emperor when he visits B5 just before the Shadows aide the Centauri. Its the Narn who lack telepaths, they were all killed in the previous Shadow war
Just adding the detail, as I don't see it anywhere in the comments either;
One feature of the Centauri is that they are natural telepaths, which is a rarity in the B5 universe. All Centauri have very limited, but very real psychic powers. Londo, our main viewpoint Centauri, has what most of his race has: premonitions of his death. Centauri are attuned to the end of their timestream...or something. There are also seers, who can tell the future, we meet two in the series. And the Emperor of the Centauri has pairs of twin telepaths, who are so linked that he can leave one sister behind, and bring one sister with him while traveling, to make sure he can't be betrayed at court, another...cynical detail of Centauri culture.
All in all, that also means the Centauri really operated on this whole independent sphere of galactic politics, the "secular" level, if you will, beyond the notice of the Vorlons (who seed most of the telepaths in the universe). The timelines also suggest (though to my knowledge none of the material directly implies this) that the war the Centauri fought in the distant past might have been races seeded by the Shadows in one of the previous wars, to further their Darwinian view of evolution. And as is seen in the Narn example, the Shadows hate telepathic races, but as the Centauri were never taken into the Vorlons confidence, it is speculated their entire existence as this militaristic empire is purely a forgotten byproduct of a former Shadow War that the Shadows forgot to check up on.
Your wrong about the Humans and the Centauri they was looking for worthy allies simlar to them this was explaned during a Babylon 5 movie when Lando was telling them about the human and Minbari war. The reason they found humans worthy of an alliance was because we were simlar to them and that they liked our art and culture.
lol, Of course the Centauri were a malevolent society, their ancient Gods were literally the Shadows. The connection between the Centauri and the Shadows runs so deep the Vorlons wouldn't even genetically modify the Centauri to see the Vorlons as angelic beings.
@Lore, to be honest, I always loved the Centauri when I was younger. They were a species of dramatic extremes, ancient values, and even a chivalrous ideal. To me, they're more than just evil aliens, they're a reflection of romantic idealism, traditionalism, and ego.
While I agree with you, what they did was wrong to the Narns, both before and after Babylon 5 was built. Still, there's more to them than just evil ass holes; they were simply selfish and prideful, characteristics all great nations have had from Alexander's Macedonian Empire to the United States today.
Now, I can't wait for you to explore the Narns, Babylon 5's equivalent to a certain semitic nation (Let's be honest, all the holocaust references were more than road signs)
All the other races was boring. Centauri actually can enjoy life. Binge drinking, strippers and gambling. Would you want to party with a Narn.
Well maybe if it was gkar 😀
If things didn't go bad, if londo didn't make bad decisions, I could imagine londo and gkar eventually being party buddies.
Seriously G'Kar was a sexy beast, he was sleeping with 2 or 3 women at a time in bed, plus slept with one of Londo's wives. Sort of makes you think about that old Biblical line to "Be fruitful"
The centauri were frat boys with binge drinking, fights, and big egos, but even when they had 3 wives each, they rarely ever enjoyed it. The Narn might have been aggressive, but they were active with their aggression
Wen l: which one? War, Pestilence, or Famine?
Mariel, aka Death, was sleeping with G'Kar. It's kind of a foreshadowing too, G'Kar's aggression mirrored that of his own people and Mariel according to Londo burns powerful men out, so in a way you canb say G'Kar doomed Narn by sleeping with Londo's wife.