Saw ur post on facebook, had a hard time finding on youtube search, please work on ur title try to get on the top 5 list cause you make really hight quality videos, you deserve more subs 👍
Thought Bomb Design yes, try to think like a normal person on when you type on the search bar, like if i was to search i would just put “clutch spring removal” the first 5 videos will pop if ur on the top most likely they will just click it first, and put a txt on the thumbnail to make the viewers curious like “why remove clutch spring?”
I replaced the spring in my 370Z with a much lighter one and the action improved out of sight. The original spring was WAY stronger than the one you showed. I cannot compress it at all with both hands, maybe a couple of millimetres. The replacement is similar to the BRZ spring and at least makes sure the weight of the pedal doesn't cause constant pressure on the clutch. Or I assume so anyway. Either way it's way better than stock.
@@thoughtbombdesign I can relate!! So many people don’t explain why or have a scientific method of testing. This 100% confirmed my decision to remove the spring and gave me something to show my wife so she’s not as mad about the clutch being harder to push in 😂
My guess regarding this design: More initial force in case a novice manual driver were to hover their foot/"ride" the clutch pedal, or for drivability over bumps without intermittent disengagement. When the driver "deliberately" pushes on the clutch (long foot travel/extension) the clutch assists as its name suggests. I'm sure Toyota/Subaru must have felt the need to have this spring assembly added, like how you mentioned in the video, so to them I'm sure it must've been worth the additional cost and assembly time per unit.
I 100% agree it must have achieved whatever they set out to do, I just think pass/fail was determined by someone who normally drives an automatic.... 😉
Your comment is what I was thinking. I believe that it prevents accidental clutch engagement and somewhat assists with lowering peak force from a human engineering perpective (usually a 5th Percentile Female).
I think the reason for the spring is to make shifts (not from a stop) easier. It makes it more like a switch where you can pop it in real quick to shift faster. This however makes it feel like dog shit… also this is not just the brz but many modern cars. I’ll be out in the driveway trying to remove mine.
Excellent video. The pivot design is absolutely weird. I don't see how it helps you feel the clutch bite point easier, and in fact the clutch spring only helps make the pedal feel more premium and smoother. In the process the clutch feel and feedback gets completely numb, like taking benzos to alleviate pain. Would you consider getting an MTEC clutch spring and make a video on it? I'd love an engineers perspective on it. Also could you make a video on no clutch spring at all? A lot of people run these two setups and I'm considering either one since the factory setup sucks.
Yep, I have the MTec one as well and will put together a video soon. You aren't the first person that has asked. spoiler alert, I would probably just keep my money ;)
So its basically it ask you to push down and you expect help then betray you by giving you that push up effect that tricks your brain. Basically its useless? Unless your beginner that has no experience with clutch yet
Your video is very very helpful, I had the same thought as you like they spend money to put the spring in there why to remove it, but no one has a good explanation until you, but here is my other question, I have stage 4 clutch it’s super heavy even with the spring, is it still worth it to take the spring out?
716 GT86 hmmmm, well it will get a little heavier and the more force you have already the less you will notice getting rid of the spring.... Does your clutch feel weird?
Great video, thanks for the excellent explanation on how it works. I watched this and removed it on my GR86 several days after taking delivery of it and I’ve been much happier with how it feels now!
It's the same on all manual Subies from 2010s, i dont know why but i think they just dont have someone to guide the designers to make it best driving for manual, or they overlooked the aspect of the feel itself. All cars in existence have had it as linear, and tactile enough with biting point to drive smoothly by feel, the way it is in Subarus now is just working against natural muscle memory and takes out big part of the enjoyment from driving and arguably is bad for teaching other people drive manual too. I got used to mine after a year but it's still just me making up for the shortcomings of the design and teaching my body backwards how to work the clutch here which is just wrong, i dont expect someone with much less or no experience with manuals to even understand it remotely. I still dont feel the engagement and never will if i wont remove the spring(i dont want to remove it because i heard it may leave clutch slightly engaged and burn it up over longer periods of time) i just know where it kind of does need more throttle by rpm behaviour not what my foot feels. It still leads to lots of moments where i inadvertly cause transmission jerk especially on 1st/2nd gears Only purpose i can see is that it is meant to disengage clutch pedal entirely, but its something that easily coulve been done with just a linear spring and ditching any assist from it entirely.
Im going to cut where the spring atta to the pedal and weld it so its always beyond the pivot point. I have a 16 wrx and the pedal is hard to keep at the floor. I do small engine rebuilds and im planning on using 1 of the 5 million valve springs i have laying around. Ill let you know how it is.
This idea must have come from Subaru because my 2014 wrx and then 2016 sti had this same terrible design. It's very difficult to feel when the clutch is just starting to disengage.
Thanks so much for making this video! Great content and interesting explanation! A worthwhile use of youtube. Please make more content like this lol!!!
What if you slotted the hole at the upper attachment point? So, move the "center" point so that it is at the start of the pedal movement? Like adjusting a set of vise grip pliers?
Have you thought about installing a MTECH spring which has a higher spring rate and the use a load cell and replot the data and overlay it and compare?
Not sure why 8.6k people haven't subbed to you but you just got another. Great video dude, I'll be making one of my own soon trying out some homemade springs to see the difference.
That would pretty much just shift the curve down but with the same slope. It might feel somewhat better but it still pushes on both sides of the pivot which makes things wierd... Good idea though!
My son just purchased a used FRS. He never drove a manual so I got to teach him. I found shifting from 1st to 2nd more odd than the clutch itself. Every other gear was fine. After a few months, he wanted to change the spring. I also got to drive it with and without the new spring. I personally didn't feel much difference but he likes it better. The clutch pressure is a touch more than I prefer but I don't find the pedal force change to be a problem. If you want a bad clutch experience, travel back in time and drive a new mid 80's Pontiac Fiero. 🙂
@@thoughtbombdesign Glad you can appreciate it. I loved and still love that car. Wouldn't mind getting a Fiero GT right now but a Grand National will always be 80's dream.
Thanks for the answer, several people have already confirmed to me that after removing the spring they did not have problems with the clutch even after 100 000 Km. I guess after removing the spring, the clutch is not engaged and the new lower position of the pedal is no problem at all.
@@thoughtbombdesign Thanks for the video and taking the time to buy a pedal assembly to demonstrate. I adjusted clutch this morning before work. Also took all my needed tools with me just in case!
3:05 oh lol. when I first got the car I felt exactly the same way, and noticed a really weird feeling, almost like a compound bow or something. well this explains it, its exactly like a compound bow, or maybe a bit like a lift strut. If you adjust the threaded rod the clutch linkage pushes on closer to the floor so there's less take up, you would also have less force. so maybe just remove this stupid spring and adjust the linkage giving a linear rate with a lower maximum force when fully depressed. seems like a win win.
@@thoughtbombdesign yeah with the way its setup, it would add almost like a snap action, which is interesting i guess. i just picked up a '14 last month and i had to replace the clutch hose, i put the mtec one in and it improved the feeling quite a bit, not sure if its because the factory line is squishy, or because the one in mine was slowly leaking and getting even more squishy. hopefully tonight ill have some time to remove the spring and adjust the pedal position
@@thoughtbombdesign I removed the spring and adjusted the pedal, getting the spring out was a lot harder than i thought it was going to be, the trick was to jam something under the clutch pedal and then use a hammer on a big screw driver to just push the spring assembly back and off. also I sat on a couple of those car ramps so i wouldn't break my back getting in under the dash. It feels way more normal now. I don't think it feels any heavier at full compression, but i did both at the same time, so ill never know.
Actually, I'm a mechanical engineer and LOVED this guys video. That comment he made popped out to my wife and I as did the [How and Why] in the title. Loved this!!!
Removed it yesterday and wow what a difference! I just hope it doesn’t strain the rest of the clutch assembly now that the spring isn’t there to assist in returning the pedal.
Roger H I would just take the spring out. No need for a whole new clutch (unless it actually needs a clutch of course). But I also recently adjusted my clutch pedal and that made even more of an improvement to the feel. Just look on UA-cam for brz clutch pedal adjustment until I get my video up about it. You might even try the adjustment before the spring and see what you think. Have fun!
Wow I’m actually amazed I wish all people made a video of this quality. Literally exactly what I needed to see thanks so much
Would be interesting to see how the MTEC spring shows up on the graph, I'd imagine somewhere in between both lines. Nice video btw
Same
I love how you explained it so thoroughly! Thanks I'm definitely taking this off... And I won't try to sue u if I die
Great! Enjoy!!!
Did it feels great didn't die yet !
The car is fine. Its only the driver that complained about everything on the car. Its about the driver not the car
Saw ur post on facebook, had a hard time finding on youtube search, please work on ur title try to get on the top 5 list cause you make really hight quality videos, you deserve more subs 👍
Ken D thanks! What do you think I should change in the title?
Thought Bomb Design yes, try to think like a normal person on when you type on the search bar, like if i was to search i would just put “clutch spring removal” the first 5 videos will pop if ur on the top most likely they will just click it first, and put a txt on the thumbnail to make the viewers curious like “why remove clutch spring?”
I replaced the spring in my 370Z with a much lighter one and the action improved out of sight. The original spring was WAY stronger than the one you showed. I cannot compress it at all with both hands, maybe a couple of millimetres. The replacement is similar to the BRZ spring and at least makes sure the weight of the pedal doesn't cause constant pressure on the clutch. Or I assume so anyway. Either way it's way better than stock.
This is awesome. Love the engineering perspective. Keep it up!
Thanks! It's the only way I know how to think! 😁😁😁
@@thoughtbombdesign I can relate!! So many people don’t explain why or have a scientific method of testing. This 100% confirmed my decision to remove the spring and gave me something to show my wife so she’s not as mad about the clutch being harder to push in 😂
Hahaha, glad I could help!
Instant sub so detailed plus I literally just bought a brz, if you can could you do a comparison with aftermarket springs mtec if any
Ha! I am literally working on that video right now! stay tuned!
new video is up!!! Let me know what you think! ua-cam.com/video/AuBCNqepxAQ/v-deo.html
My guess regarding this design: More initial force in case a novice manual driver were to hover their foot/"ride" the clutch pedal, or for drivability over bumps without intermittent disengagement. When the driver "deliberately" pushes on the clutch (long foot travel/extension) the clutch assists as its name suggests. I'm sure Toyota/Subaru must have felt the need to have this spring assembly added, like how you mentioned in the video, so to them I'm sure it must've been worth the additional cost and assembly time per unit.
I 100% agree it must have achieved whatever they set out to do, I just think pass/fail was determined by someone who normally drives an automatic.... 😉
Your comment is what I was thinking. I believe that it prevents accidental clutch engagement and somewhat assists with lowering peak force from a human engineering perpective (usually a 5th Percentile Female).
Bless you child!
I think the reason for the spring is to make shifts (not from a stop) easier. It makes it more like a switch where you can pop it in real quick to shift faster. This however makes it feel like dog shit… also this is not just the brz but many modern cars.
I’ll be out in the driveway trying to remove mine.
Yeah I have seen it on many cars since making this video. Lame....
Excellent video. The pivot design is absolutely weird. I don't see how it helps you feel the clutch bite point easier, and in fact the clutch spring only helps make the pedal feel more premium and smoother. In the process the clutch feel and feedback gets completely numb, like taking benzos to alleviate pain. Would you consider getting an MTEC clutch spring and make a video on it? I'd love an engineers perspective on it. Also could you make a video on no clutch spring at all? A lot of people run these two setups and I'm considering either one since the factory setup sucks.
Yep, I have the MTec one as well and will put together a video soon. You aren't the first person that has asked. spoiler alert, I would probably just keep my money ;)
just uploaded the Mtec spring video, let me know what you think! ua-cam.com/video/AuBCNqepxAQ/v-deo.html
@@thoughtbombdesign You are awesome.
Also a heads up, this video showed up in my home screen / recommended video list, so congrats 👍
Well that's exciting, thanks for the heads up!
Very detailed vid, nice work! This is the best and informed one on clutch spring removal.
So its basically it ask you to push down and you expect help then betray you by giving you that push up effect that tricks your brain. Basically its useless? Unless your beginner that has no experience with clutch yet
Pretty much! 😂
you guys might want to add a return spring after the mod. as it acts as the return spring also, not just assist. nice video sir
Your video is very very helpful, I had the same thought as you like they spend money to put the spring in there why to remove it, but no one has a good explanation until you, but here is my other question, I have stage 4 clutch it’s super heavy even with the spring, is it still worth it to take the spring out?
716 GT86 hmmmm, well it will get a little heavier and the more force you have already the less you will notice getting rid of the spring.... Does your clutch feel weird?
Thanks man! Subscribing because you deserve it 😊
Thanks!
Can you do a how and why on whiteline positive shift bushing vs perrin transmission mount
Great video, thanks for the excellent explanation on how it works. I watched this and removed it on my GR86 several days after taking delivery of it and I’ve been much happier with how it feels now!
Oh good! Yeah, it makes such a difference. What were they thinking!!? 😁
It's the same on all manual Subies from 2010s, i dont know why but i think they just dont have someone to guide the designers to make it best driving for manual, or they overlooked the aspect of the feel itself. All cars in existence have had it as linear, and tactile enough with biting point to drive smoothly by feel, the way it is in Subarus now is just working against natural muscle memory and takes out big part of the enjoyment from driving and arguably is bad for teaching other people drive manual too. I got used to mine after a year but it's still just me making up for the shortcomings of the design and teaching my body backwards how to work the clutch here which is just wrong, i dont expect someone with much less or no experience with manuals to even understand it remotely. I still dont feel the engagement and never will if i wont remove the spring(i dont want to remove it because i heard it may leave clutch slightly engaged and burn it up over longer periods of time) i just know where it kind of does need more throttle by rpm behaviour not what my foot feels. It still leads to lots of moments where i inadvertly cause transmission jerk especially on 1st/2nd gears
Only purpose i can see is that it is meant to disengage clutch pedal entirely, but its something that easily coulve been done with just a linear spring and ditching any assist from it entirely.
Yes! I totally agree. Well said 👍
This is the first video on clutch spring that has sense! Anyway, response is more linear with spring on its place...
If the bite point too near the dead space of the assist spring will be a nightmare
Great video
Thank you!
Hi, do you know how to increase the hardness of gas pedal? It's too soft
Im going to cut where the spring atta to the pedal and weld it so its always beyond the pivot point. I have a 16 wrx and the pedal is hard to keep at the floor. I do small engine rebuilds and im planning on using 1 of the 5 million valve springs i have laying around. Ill let you know how it is.
interesting, can't wait to hear!
How did it go man? any updates?
Update: he couldn’t disengage his clutch and died in a fiery crash.
@@blackrhino44 lol nah b. It worked out just fine. The dealer I traded it to thought it was crazy though.
Hahaha, whatever works!
Sub. As someone going through their own ZC/ZN6 project this was a great little insight to this!
Subbed! Thanks for breaking it down with actual science
This is perfect explanation as to what is going on! Thank you!!! Such a great quality video too.
No problem, glad it made sense! 😁
This idea must have come from Subaru because my 2014 wrx and then 2016 sti had this same terrible design. It's very difficult to feel when the clutch is just starting to disengage.
I know right? I would love to know who came up with it...
Thanks so much for making this video! Great content and interesting explanation! A worthwhile use of youtube. Please make more content like this lol!!!
Thanks so much!
What if you slotted the hole at the upper attachment point? So, move the "center" point so that it is at the start of the pedal movement? Like adjusting a set of vise grip pliers?
i know whats happening to the spring on my car...its going in the bin. thanks for the explanation...
Yes! Another convert! 😁
Have you thought about installing a MTECH spring which has a higher spring rate and the use a load cell and replot the data and overlay it and compare?
I did just that! 😁
Look for my "brz clutch follow up" video. 👍 Enjoy!
Not sure why 8.6k people haven't subbed to you but you just got another. Great video dude, I'll be making one of my own soon trying out some homemade springs to see the difference.
Awesome, thanks! It is a lot of fun. I just wish I had time to make more...
Fantastic video thanks!
Instant sub. Awesome video!
Clicked subscribe as soon as you pulled out the load cell. What brand are you using?
Thanks! I figure there isn't enough actual testing and data on YT. It's a torbal. Honestly it was just the best one I could afford on Amazon ;)
So there would be no negative downsides to removing it? It was made only to reduce the amount of force needed to press on the clutch?
The pedal force will be slightly more but no real downside that I can see!
I wish every mythical card mod everyone suggests had a video like this!
Thanks! That's what I was thinking too! 😁
Thank you. This video is just what I needed to understand what my foot 🦶 was feeling all this time
No problem. I agree, it is an odd feeling...
Great explanation! Thanks for taking the time to put this info out on such a niche issue.
Haha, no problem! Glad it was useful 👍
You deserve more subscribers
Hello
What about shortening the original Spring?
That would pretty much just shift the curve down but with the same slope. It might feel somewhat better but it still pushes on both sides of the pivot which makes things wierd... Good idea though!
My son just purchased a used FRS. He never drove a manual so I got to teach him. I found shifting from 1st to 2nd more odd than the clutch itself. Every other gear was fine. After a few months, he wanted to change the spring. I also got to drive it with and without the new spring. I personally didn't feel much difference but he likes it better. The clutch pressure is a touch more than I prefer but I don't find the pedal force change to be a problem. If you want a bad clutch experience, travel back in time and drive a new mid 80's Pontiac Fiero. 🙂
Haha, I'll bet! That was my dream car at the time but I'll bet it wasn't great ;)
@@thoughtbombdesign Glad you can appreciate it. I loved and still love that car. Wouldn't mind getting a Fiero GT right now but a Grand National will always be 80's dream.
Great video! Make more about the frs
Thanks! Unfortunately I don't have it anymore... I have a golf R now
Does that mean we don't put any replacement spring for it? And should we use it completely without a spring?
That's what I did and it worked great!
@@thoughtbombdesign Is there any problem if I use the clutch without a spring?
Not that I could see, but I obviously can't guarantee anything
Fellow engineer here. You rock!
Thanks a lot! 😁
It´s 3 years since you recorded this video. Did you have the spring removed for all this time and did any problems occur?
I had the car for probably a year and a half after that video with no issues!
Thanks for the answer, several people have already confirmed to me that after removing the spring they did not have problems with the clutch even after 100 000 Km. I guess after removing the spring, the clutch is not engaged and the new lower position of the pedal is no problem at all.
Yeah I don't think the transmission cares at all, it's just the pedal that you are messing with. 👍
does this work on the FA20 WRX?
Not sure but if it has the same spring I'll bet it will.
@@thoughtbombdesign NM,, just did a part search. 2022 WRX uses the same spring as the FA20 BRZ. The new BRZ uses the STI and FA20 WRX spring.
so is this spring necessary for assisting the clutch pedal to return forward to disengage position?
Nope, it just modifies the feel...
@@thoughtbombdesign Thanks for the video and taking the time to buy a pedal assembly to demonstrate. I adjusted clutch this morning before work. Also took all my needed tools with me just in case!
@@conradaleshire4428 cool, I am glad you like the video and I hope you like the clutch!!!
3:05 oh lol. when I first got the car I felt exactly the same way, and noticed a really weird feeling, almost like a compound bow or something. well this explains it, its exactly like a compound bow, or maybe a bit like a lift strut. If you adjust the threaded rod the clutch linkage pushes on closer to the floor so there's less take up, you would also have less force. so maybe just remove this stupid spring and adjust the linkage giving a linear rate with a lower maximum force when fully depressed. seems like a win win.
Yep, nice analogy. It's so weird.....
@@thoughtbombdesign yeah with the way its setup, it would add almost like a snap action, which is interesting i guess. i just picked up a '14 last month and i had to replace the clutch hose, i put the mtec one in and it improved the feeling quite a bit, not sure if its because the factory line is squishy, or because the one in mine was slowly leaking and getting even more squishy. hopefully tonight ill have some time to remove the spring and adjust the pedal position
Yeah, adjusting the pedal was HUGE 👍
@@thoughtbombdesign I removed the spring and adjusted the pedal, getting the spring out was a lot harder than i thought it was going to be, the trick was to jam something under the clutch pedal and then use a hammer on a big screw driver to just push the spring assembly back and off. also I sat on a couple of those car ramps so i wouldn't break my back getting in under the dash. It feels way more normal now. I don't think it feels any heavier at full compression, but i did both at the same time, so ill never know.
@@davidfarmer haha, yeah, it is definitely a tight fit under there.... Glad you like it!
"For the designers and Engineers"
*Everyone looks to the left and right confused*
Actually, I'm a mechanical engineer and LOVED this guys video. That comment he made popped out to my wife and I as did the [How and Why] in the title. Loved this!!!
First!! Take that Kaimou!
Amanda Savarino darn
Removed it yesterday and wow what a difference! I just hope it doesn’t strain the rest of the clutch assembly now that the spring isn’t there to assist in returning the pedal.
I'm glad you like it, it's so much better right?!?!?! I don't think it will hurt anything, drive on! ;)
The spring might be there to hold the pedal up and keep it from bearing on other components. Does it rest lower with the spring removed?
just bought my 2018 BRZ about a month ago.. the clutch feels so strange!!! so it's better to take the spring off or change the clutch completely?
Roger H I would just take the spring out. No need for a whole new clutch (unless it actually needs a clutch of course). But I also recently adjusted my clutch pedal and that made even more of an improvement to the feel. Just look on UA-cam for brz clutch pedal adjustment until I get my video up about it. You might even try the adjustment before the spring and see what you think. Have fun!
i've seen one or two briefly.. how did you adjust yours?
Roger H I followed this video. It is pretty good. I made the clutch pedal even with the brake like he did. Works great!
Which video?
woops! here you go. ua-cam.com/video/9zr_ogcPOPY/v-deo.html