Many HDMI TVs have color settings that make it fairly easy to adapt... without having to adjust settings on the source device. Using the TVs settings might be easier for most folks to adjust especially if your TV has a preset color option that works for you.
If we take 3 different AES revision I bet they would all look different from each other, as soon as I have time I want to a comparison with mine, I also use both analogue and digital on myu Mister
About the neogeo colours, one thing I noticed was that the red in the picture of Anny is basically the same in both instances, but with more saturation in hdmi, but the difference in playersprites is vastly different, same goes for the judge, his red is still red, not orange, so i'd say it´s only the active playersprites that changes colour, but why, I couldn't say, im not an expert, but it could narrow down the "problem"
Haha I find those errors funny. I leave my mistakes in usually / admit them. I am just one person running an entire channel and my F ups are usually funny
Are you dealing with color crush from a RGB range mismatch with your display or capture equipment? The missing detail in the dark areas of the background of the first comparison on HDMI seems to indicate this.
No. I even said it in the video / notes. It happens outside the capture setup. I replicated it on Final Burn Alpha too...I believe it’s a Unibios issue and not a MiSTer issue
@@VideoGameEsoterica I’ve only encountered it outside of capture setups. For example, my Sony KDL-52XBR2 only supports limited range RGB over HDMI, so most HDMI mods for classic consoles have crushed colors. Thankfully, many have updated with an RGB range selection (like UltraHDMI) or, more recently, included it from the start (like PS1Digital). Since MiSTer has a shared scaling engine I expect most cores to have the option but I haven’t tried it out yet.
Analog has a bit more pixel blending - it's funny how people are looking for the best quality picture while in the good old time we had some static images on crappy TVs while playing with our home computers or consoles
Because on camera visually it’s more interesting to show the bare pcb stack and it’s also easier to indicate what I am pointing at :) once I’m done doing MiSTer vids I’ll put it in a case for the long term
Interesting idea to compare mister vs mister. I wonder how it compares to a crtemudriver set up, when the advanced output settings are similar/match. I know when I was configuring my pc to output to a crt, I could turn up the brightness by increasing the horizontal sync pulse of the signal going from my gpu to tv. Maybe something like that can be done for the mister. Seems to be different with different tvs too. My jvc av-30w475 requires different porch and sync pulse values than my 32fs100 trinitron.
Yes that's the issue with CRT and analog...it can vary wildly between models. But that's also fun to me...calibrating each CRT I own. Weird hobby but I enjoy it lol
Do you think that it might be that hdmi is getting the original digital signal so the color comes out cleaner and pure-er than the actual system. And the vibrancy is then being amplified by the monitor. If digital signal is clean and pure, it might just be the way it is. Like how 1st gen gba games are too bright on 2nd gen gba screen. Games don’t look the way we see on the original system does not mean that it is wrong.
I think the color difference in rgbs is due to the cable. I'm using the same one and have the same problem. I ordered another rgbs cable from misteraddons..well see if it gets fixed
I found out the color issue in Matrimelee is a special input at character selection I never knew existed until I looked up a move list lolol...never knew!
Funeral pyre in the end. All consoles sent to the heavens in smoke lol (I just got another piece of original hardware in this week. I’ll never stop collecting the real stuff)
I recently ordered a MiSTer and just realized there are two versions; Analog and Digital. I got the analog. Now I’m wondering if I even got the correct one. I have both CRT and LCD, and depending on my mood or convenience, I would want to be able to go between both. What is your opinion on that?
Cool! That’s good to hear. Thanks for the quick reply too! Much appreciated. I was kinda wondering if I got the correct one. I wasn’t paying attention when I purchased it. I was thinking there was only one variation. Now I got a piece of mind lol.
Weird how different the colors are for you on the Neo Geo core with analog output. I tried Matrimelee on my own MiSTer setup with Unibos 4.0 with RGB output through the io board with Retro Access Scart cables and I am getting normal reds rather than the orange I am seeing on yours. Have you had any luck finding out why your result is so different?
I solved it. It was quite dumb actually. If you hold right and hit B on character select her costume switches to orange lol. I posted about it in the MiSTer discord. Random thing I never knew existed
Just letting you know that the analog io board doesn't output the correct RGB signal, not perfectly. The direct video hdmi to VGA adapter method is known to be slightly superior.
I may look at that in the future. I try not to throw too many exotic bits of hardware in the mix to start because I assume the large majority of owners or potential owners won’t go that route
Hi, the direct video hdmi to vga adapter sems To be the best method to have the best image. But don't you think the hdmi to vga adapter can damage the image ?
hey, thanks for that nice video. This is the first time I start thinking about color at all when it comese to accuracy topics. Always just thought about timing inaccuracies. Just thx
Thanks for doing this, interesting to see. I'm really looking forward to the advanced analogue settings. I've played around with the video_mode settings to make the GBA and GB cores full screen, and try to compensate for that slight shift to the left the NeoGeo core has, but I'm worried about causing damage to my PVM if the back porch etc. is too short (not sure if that is possible though!).
Not sure about the red/orange color mismatch, but the blacks definitely looked crushed on the HDMI. full versus limited range mismatch? I get that you're comparing the defaults in all of these first videos with advanced coming later, but the defaults on mister are almost meaningless. It needs to be configured to suit the display and even tailored to the specific core. That said, the RGB over HDMI should be the most accurate based on what the console is generating. Once it enters the analogue domain all bets are off.
no for many comparisons its extremely close...which just goes to show how good of a job MiSTer does with both HDMI and analog. Just tiny deviances between the two
Many HDMI TVs have color settings that make it fairly easy to adapt... without having to adjust settings on the source device. Using the TVs settings might be easier for most folks to adjust especially if your TV has a preset color option that works for you.
Exactly. The only reason I don’t talk about modern tv adjustments is they vary wildly in feature set and even menu options
If we take 3 different AES revision I bet they would all look different from each other, as soon as I have time I want to a comparison with mine, I also use both analogue and digital on myu Mister
Also different i/o board revision could differe in output since the resitors/dac has changed over the years
Right? Neo Geo had the most variation of RGB video quality across revisions compared to any other console I've ever owned
I'd love to compare that but it's a bit too deep of a dive even for me lol
About the neogeo colours, one thing I noticed was that the red in the picture of Anny is basically the same in both instances, but with more saturation in hdmi, but the difference in playersprites is vastly different, same goes for the judge, his red is still red, not orange, so i'd say it´s only the active playersprites that changes colour, but why, I couldn't say, im not an expert, but it could narrow down the "problem"
I solved it. I forgot if you held two buttons at once vs one to select characters the sprite color changes. Hidden feature I totally forgot exists
@@VideoGameEsoterica Oh, lol, the kinda error you wish you didn't have in a video on youtube ;D Oh well, life goes on
Haha I find those errors funny. I leave my mistakes in usually / admit them. I am just one person running an entire channel and my F ups are usually funny
Are you dealing with color crush from a RGB range mismatch with your display or capture equipment? The missing detail in the dark areas of the background of the first comparison on HDMI seems to indicate this.
No. I even said it in the video / notes. It happens outside the capture setup. I replicated it on Final Burn Alpha too...I believe it’s a Unibios issue and not a MiSTer issue
@@VideoGameEsoterica I’ve only encountered it outside of capture setups. For example, my Sony KDL-52XBR2 only supports limited range RGB over HDMI, so most HDMI mods for classic consoles have crushed colors. Thankfully, many have updated with an RGB range selection (like UltraHDMI) or, more recently, included it from the start (like PS1Digital). Since MiSTer has a shared scaling engine I expect most cores to have the option but I haven’t tried it out yet.
It's odd I got it to do the same thing in Final Burn Alpha too...I think it's an issue with the UniBios
Love channel! Subbed
Appreciate that :)
Analog has a bit more pixel blending - it's funny how people are looking for the best quality picture while in the good old time we had some static images on crappy TVs while playing with our home computers or consoles
Haha yes back in the 90s composite kept us happy
why don’t you get a case, I 3d printed one and it makes it more complete
Because on camera visually it’s more interesting to show the bare pcb stack and it’s also easier to indicate what I am pointing at :) once I’m done doing MiSTer vids I’ll put it in a case for the long term
you should compare the io board analog to direct video analog. the colors on direct video are better higher bit rate
I may at some point. Just don’t have the parts around currently
Interesting idea to compare mister vs mister. I wonder how it compares to a crtemudriver set up, when the advanced output settings are similar/match.
I know when I was configuring my pc to output to a crt, I could turn up the brightness by increasing the horizontal sync pulse of the signal going from my gpu to tv.
Maybe something like that can be done for the mister. Seems to be different with different tvs too. My jvc av-30w475 requires different porch and sync pulse values than my 32fs100 trinitron.
Yes that's the issue with CRT and analog...it can vary wildly between models. But that's also fun to me...calibrating each CRT I own. Weird hobby but I enjoy it lol
Do you think that it might be that hdmi is getting the original digital signal so the color comes out cleaner and pure-er than the actual system. And the vibrancy is then being amplified by the monitor. If digital signal is clean and pure, it might just be the way it is. Like how 1st gen gba games are too bright on 2nd gen gba screen. Games don’t look the way we see on the original system does not mean that it is wrong.
Analog vs Digital will always make a diff for sure
I think the color difference in rgbs is due to the cable. I'm using the same one and have the same problem. I ordered another rgbs cable from misteraddons..well see if it gets fixed
I found out the color issue in Matrimelee is a special input at character selection I never knew existed until I looked up a move list lolol...never knew!
Hi,
The Neo Geo is very pixelated on my LCD, I connected the FPGA to my Neo MVSX. Do I need to change some parameters ?
Thanks
It will be pixelated because it’s just scaling the pixels. You can play with filters in the core menu to lessen it
Are there still limitations on the resolution of some cores? As I understand some were running only at 720p.
There is some upper end but it’s well beyond 1080p
Keep up the great work! Its great to see people putting effort into MiSTer videos like this. Though, when will you throw out your original hardware?
Funeral pyre in the end. All consoles sent to the heavens in smoke lol (I just got another piece of original hardware in this week. I’ll never stop collecting the real stuff)
I recently ordered a MiSTer and just realized there are two versions; Analog and Digital. I got the analog. Now I’m wondering if I even got the correct one. I have both CRT and LCD, and depending on my mood or convenience, I would want to be able to go between both. What is your opinion on that?
You are fine :) you get HDMI off the DE10 Nano itself. So you will have digital off the DE10 and analog off the top IO board. Best pairing IMO
Also this is the config I personally use / show in all my videos
Cool! That’s good to hear. Thanks for the quick reply too! Much appreciated. I was kinda wondering if I got the correct one. I wasn’t paying attention when I purchased it. I was thinking there was only one variation. Now I got a piece of mind lol.
Haha you accidentally made the choice I’d have recommended
@@VideoGameEsoterica hell yeah!! 😆
Weird how different the colors are for you on the Neo Geo core with analog output. I tried Matrimelee on my own MiSTer setup with Unibos 4.0 with RGB output through the io board with Retro Access Scart cables and I am getting normal reds rather than the orange I am seeing on yours. Have you had any luck finding out why your result is so different?
I solved it. It was quite dumb actually. If you hold right and hit B on character select her costume switches to orange lol. I posted about it in the MiSTer discord. Random thing I never knew existed
@@VideoGameEsoterica hah! That's a crazy one. Thank you for letting me know. It had me really curious as to what was going on.
I never knew you could do it till I looked into it further
So if I wanted a mister to use on my vewlix should I go digital?
If you have an LCD in the cab yes. Considering Viewlix is lcd all you do is put the mister in, wire up controls to the panel and connect via hdmi
Just letting you know that the analog io board doesn't output the correct RGB signal, not perfectly. The direct video hdmi to VGA adapter method is known to be slightly superior.
I may look at that in the future. I try not to throw too many exotic bits of hardware in the mix to start because I assume the large majority of owners or potential owners won’t go that route
Hi, the direct video hdmi to vga adapter sems To be the best method to have the best image. But don't you think the hdmi to vga adapter can damage the image ?
Damage?
@@VideoGameEsoterica i mean to make the image to be less good than with a single câble ( hdmi to scart). Sorry my English is not good.
No worries just wanted to understand. No multiple cables (RGB) wouldn’t be worse so long as you have a good quality, well shielded cable
hey,
thanks for that nice video.
This is the first time I start thinking about color at all when it comese to accuracy topics.
Always just thought about timing inaccuracies.
Just thx
Happy to make them. For me color isn’t ever “inaccurate”...it’s just “different”
Thanks for doing this, interesting to see. I'm really looking forward to the advanced analogue settings. I've played around with the video_mode settings to make the GBA and GB cores full screen, and try to compensate for that slight shift to the left the NeoGeo core has, but I'm worried about causing damage to my PVM if the back porch etc. is too short (not sure if that is possible though!).
I wouldn’t worry about it. You’d have to be majorly out of spec to damage the pvm
Anything with HDMI is better?
If you are playing it on a modern tv yes
THX 4 the comparison man!
happy to do it :)
Not sure about the red/orange color mismatch, but the blacks definitely looked crushed on the HDMI. full versus limited range mismatch? I get that you're comparing the defaults in all of these first videos with advanced coming later, but the defaults on mister are almost meaningless. It needs to be configured to suit the display and even tailored to the specific core. That said, the RGB over HDMI should be the most accurate based on what the console is generating. Once it enters the analogue domain all bets are off.
The red/orange seems to be an issue in FB Alpha too so I think it’s a bios/code issue inherent in the base hardware.
❤️
:)
doesn't really look that different
no for many comparisons its extremely close...which just goes to show how good of a job MiSTer does with both HDMI and analog. Just tiny deviances between the two
Who cares about colors! Tell me what’s the picture quality is doing, unfortunately your video fails to answer.
You look at the quality. I don’t need to tell when I show