Original Ice is Dawn. Current Ice is lightbringer. Eldric shadowchaser, azor ahai, came from the great empire of the dawn wielding a dragon made sword. At some point, those sword were swapped. Dawn might have been the nights king sword. As azor ahai defeated him, he claimed his sword, and returned to starfall. For the next generations, the sword of the morning is the one who wields Dawn, because it brings the morning.
Yeah I like a lot of this, particularly the idea Dawn / OG Ice was originally the sword of the NK, and was taken from him. That gives us a good reason to keep it in the south, as far away from the north as possible.
Lucifer means Lightbringer Hmmm this is kind of a theme of GRRM characters too what’s good isn’t all good and what’s bad isn’t all Bad, I have a feeling those we think are villains will He hero’s and those who are hero’s will be villans lol, and I can’t shake it. It goes back to the original myth, as if the sun god who is a life giving ‘all father ‘ type of god did this horrible thing by piercing the moon and causing the long night.
@@DavidLightbringer I'm not really convinced. There are probably safer places to hide the sword then (maybe something like Naath, Lorath, the caves in Dorne, maybe even Oldtown).
Great summary of a complex idea! I find these short vids more accessible as I can watch them anytime and without having to stop and do something else. And it's easier for me to take in all your analysis- but maybe that's just my short attention span!
Omg! This was great!! I need More of these 13 min videos! I love all your podcasts and live streamings but most of the time I don't really have the time to watch them so this was just PERFECT!
I feel like there were a number of times that Jon mentioned how much he always wanted to wield Ice but knew it was impossible because Ned's sword wouldn't pass to him. Perhaps he was subconsciously drawn to/thinking of the original Ice instead....?
One of the hardest deaths to watch in the show for me was the death of Ice... such a badass sword. And the fact that it was taken by Lannisters was just salt in the wound man...
I absolutely love this video! Your content is some of the best out there but I don’t always have time for long videos and then I end up forgetting to finish them. Please make more like this!!
Excellent job. Always enjoy your work. Watched with a coworker non-book reader fan and he found it very easy to follow along. Looking forward to future videos.
Love your content even though I'm catching up on all your thoughts and ideas. Definitely the video series to help make that happen for me, excited for the next installments!
I saw the short video and forgot about the announcement so I figured it was a upload error. Glad to see you expanding your brand and I hope you find some new Mythheads with the lastest endeavor.... As long as I'm commenting your round table about sex workers in Westeros was at the very least on the cusp of groundbreaking journalism.
Another mention of 12 + 1 that I just noticed today in Book 1; a dozen men died at Drogo and Dany's wedding celebration. If you count the death of Drogo it would come to 13 deaths that eventually put Dany on her path (onto the pyre to birth the dragons) in many ways. No idea if anyone has ever pointed this one out before but I thought it was a good one. About to watch this now but I'm sure the content is great as always!
LOVE the shorter format! I listen while doing other tasks, so I often have to watch in chunks as I'm rarely doing the same task for 3 hours. This will help me not lose the flow of the theory . Hope you'll do more this way.
Thoroughly enjoyed this video!!!!!!! Makes a lot sense that the sword - Dawn could have been Ice and it was interesting that on the show, we saw a flash back at the tower of joy, when Ned went to check on Lyanna and laid a sword against the bed before he hurried to Lyanna’s side. Was the reason this was done for fan service or was it foreshadowing the need for the sword in season 8 to bring the dawn at the end of the long night?......will be interesting to see if this happens! I agree that it will have to be Jon to wield it! Would love to see more of these kind of videos! Thank you LML!!!!💜 (Love your costumes!)
Hi LML I love your new video. I think you should edit your Mythical Astronomy & Symbolism video from Con of Thrones to introduce your point of view to budding "Myth Heads". I was a bit intimidated by the material when I first discovered your videos, but you have broadened my world view. Thank you. You should also revisit Asshai in your LML in 13. I was super excited that Alt Shift X mentioned you in his "East: The Strangest Places in Game of Thrones" video along with his use of Sanrixian's artwork. Cheers.
I think I will not reuse the con footage, but use the same material and condense it down. It's a good idea. Gonna do a few vids about the Others and then go back to some dragons, comets, and flaming swords :)
I have actually also thought that the "war for the Dawn" ws actually who would possess the sword Dawn because it is the key to winning the war to end the long night.
Love the new format, I think it is really accessible. Especially appreciate the drawings (Sanrixian 💜) and the actual quote images, not that it isn't lovely to see your face too! Perhaps some different voices for the quotes could add to it going forward? Thanks LML 😊
LML! Love the content mate! Doing a bang up job! Ive always felt like Dawn was the original Ice. I figured the Original Starks/the Kings Of Winter had made this Icy Sword from an Icy Moon Meteor that landed and created the Black Pool at Winterfell, explaining the Dragon(meteor) under Winterfell, thoughts?
If Dawn is Ice, then I have to wonder about a connection to the mysteriously cold pond in the WF godswood, yeah. I can picture our last hero tempering it in that pond, perhaps, as Ned cleans Ice in the pond when the story opens
Love the shorter videos! I suffer from a serious blood magic curse of losing my place whilst watching UA-cam (on my phone) and having a hard time finding where I was. Accidentally sliding the bar forwards/backwards, youtube deciding to automatically update halfway through, phone knocking around in my pocket + being an all round clumsy person etc. This is *completely my fault* but I do appreciate only having to sort through 15 minutes of misplaced timestamps instead of 3 hrs 😂😂😂
Right on right on... you know I put all the streams up on a podcast feed, right? If you are listening on the go that's a lot easier than youtube. Just look up Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire for the main stuff, and Between 2 Weirwoods for those discussion panels. I'll have more short vids coming, but really it's just a different scale and scope. Of course there is a lot i can only really get into on the longer format, but it's fun to boil down the basic ideas and make a shorty too. :)
I think this condensed format came out pretty well, but of course I'm a regular listener of the podcast so I've got plenty of info (and the time to digest it). I'm gonna share it with some friends and see what they think of it.
@@Go-Dawgs I've been trying actually, scheduling is tough around the holidays. But it WILL happen, we have a couple of ideas for panels that we are discussing. :)
I like this bite size LML, very tasty! LOL. Question: I wonder if Ice has any relationship to the swords of the Others, the description of their swords in the Prologue was very similar.
the Ashara Dayne issue with Ned is somewhat a clue for your theory. the affair may not be true but something is sure connected between the Daynes and Starks
I've heard you talk about Thundarr the Barbarian, which is undeniably an inspiration for the world, one has only to watch the opening credits to see that. I mean even the main characters name and appearance is suggestive of Beric Dondarrion. But have you ever seen the opening for a cartoon called Blackstar? I had never heard of it before but I watched it and, well maybe I'm just starting to see Weirwoods, night kings and children of the forest everywhere but the imagery is there. The main character's name is Jon Blackstar and he wields half of a magic sword, the other half of which is wielded by the evil Overlord.
This video produced a weird theory in my head. In the Azor Ahai myth, what if Nissa Nissa was a dragon? The steel came from a meteorite, a dragon, and Azor plunged it into a dragon which are, "fire made flesh", making it doubly a dragon-steel sword. Targaryens are speculated to be even descended from peoples who had relations with dragons, so what if Azor Ahai was one of their earliest ancestors, a man with a dragon consort, or wife.
Just reading AGOT Dany lll and came across this line. Down in the shadow lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and GLOWS IN THE DARK with spirits of the damned. Got me thinking if the Dawn is the original Ice, the flaming sword of hero’s aka Lightbringer then maybe it glows in the dark when the long night comes, giving it the look that it’s on fire, and it’s not a literal flaming sword. Just a thought.
Old Nan's story (A+ credibility!) of The Last Hero accounts that his sword froze and shattered. He was lost and near death. Somehow in the nick of time, he connected with the Children of the Forest, who were clueless of metal technology. How do you think he got the super-sword Ice/Dawn? P.S. Thanks for the relatively brief and super-focused format. Even though I know you are very knowledgeable, I routinely skip watching all videos exceeding an hour. Less is more!!!
By the description I have always thought that Dawn was actually some kind of glass-ish ... crystal-ish sword that is some magical kind of dragon glass and early valyrian steel.
I think that the NK using an ice spear to bring down Viserion with radar skills and strength comparable to a F22 Raptor and the Starks sword being called ICE is not a coincidence. Winterfell, Starfall, The Daynes calling Edric NED in spite of Ned killing Arthur Dayne and not returning the body but bringing back the sword Jon was meant to have Longclaw was it really the family sword of the Mormonts? Jorah looked at it like he had never seen it.
Agree with a lot of that, though I think Longclaw is what it appears to be. It's pommel is made from a "pale stone," however, which could be foreshadowing of Jon wielding Dawn, which was made "from a pale stone of magical powers"
@@DavidLightbringer The Mormonts supposedly had the sword for 500 years 100 years longer than the Starks had ICE who gifted them Bear Island that fact seems strange as rare and expensive as they were. Maybe the sword was at the wall waiting for Jon. There are so many unexplained events concerning the Tower of Joy. It seems like a grand plan to protect him at all costs and get him to the wall when the time came. To this point only Jon, Sam and Meera are the only ones that have killed WW's curious Meera and Jon have a connection to the TOJ and Hornhill is close by.
@DavidLightbringer I think between yourself, Alt Shift X, In Deep Geek and a few others, I really don't think I'd know anything you all don't. I get most of my knowledge outside of the books from the excellent work you guys do. And every time I get to a conclusion on something, I see you have already done a video on it weighing every conceivable angle, as well as detailing and debunking the more outrageous theories.
No, actually, that's one of the ramifications of Dawn having once been Ice - Jon doesn't have to be a Dayne, really, if that's actually a Stark sword. I totally get the question though, N + A = J fans usually like this theory :)
People suspecting Jon to be Ashara's son could play well into his being named sword of the morning. It would be funny if he got this massive honorific from his fake heritage while his real Targ heritage goes unnoticed. Half-way through the long night; "Oi, you're not a Dayne! Give back that sword!" "Oh just let him get on with it."
Sir I think R+L=J is BS but if you think this true then Aegon the Unlikely's mother was from House Dayne. The Dawn is not pass down to heirs pass to person who best skill at sword. A Knight of House Dayne
Dawn being lightbringer is my primary theory on lightbringer so far. I think ned brought it to the crypts and jon will wield it or ned used it and renamed it Ice.
All right follow me here because I wanna build off the theories you have. Dawn is the original Ice, but like you said it was given the name dawn after it broke the long night. Which means it has to be the sword wielded by azor ahai. Which means it was crafted by killing Nissa nissa, but not by stabbing here. Like you said the moon cracked when he did that and rained down meteors. And the sword was crafted from one of those meteors.
It cohod be that way, or there could be an older meteorite the Great Empire was making swords from. Perhaps the " pearl palanquin" of the first God Emperor
Im not so sure the Last Hero was a Stark. I always liked the idea that everyones favourite house was acctually the villains in that story. Sure, Dawn was the original Ice, wielded by the Nights King, but the Last Hero was a Dayne, who defeated the Nights King, ended the Long Night, and took the sword to Starfall and named it Dawn, and created the title Sword of the Morning. But the Nights King was after the Long Night people will say, and the Nights King was defeated by his brother, Im not sure about that either, the timeline is extremely uncertain at least until the Andals arrived with writing. And the Starks and the Daynes couldve been closely related back then, either by marriage, or by ties to the GEotD (Bloodstone Emperor = Stark, and Amethyst Empress = Dayne) This time a Stark, Jon, will take Dawn from an evil Dayne, Gerold, and end the Long Night 2.0, righting the wrongs of his ancester, the Nights King, inversing the last time. Nah, its just wishful thinking from me, fanfic, but I do love to fantasize about all this stuff :D
More evidence that John is the son of Ashara Dayne and Brandon Stark if he's going to wield Dawn. Instead of having to go back 5 generations for it to make sense in the R+L =J variant, it just makes sense. As the son of a Dayne + Stark, wouldn't that be way cooler as it unites the houses, thus bringing Ice + Dawn back together?
@@DavidLightbringer Exactly, Jon would be a Dayne AND a Stark if A + B =J is correct. It would be a Stark sword once more , but also Jon could be Sword of the Morning as a Dayne. Jon would also be heir to Starfall and heir to Winterfell. Not to mention it's a good way to get Dawn into John's hands if his identity were revealed. I also love this thought: "Winter is Coming" are the Stark words, and with it the Long Night. The (albeit unconfirmed) words of House Dayne are "Dawn Brings Light". Combining them gets us: "Winter is Coming, but Dawn Brings Light".
Right . I wanted to ask - i might be a little ignorant of something but what about Ice I mean where are the two swords? Does Jaime have one on his way to Winterfell ? On the show any way? I know its a complete different story in the books. Do you think Ice could be put back together ? It just doesn't seem right that the Starks sword is not where it should be. Why of all swords you know? Probably doesn't mean much but its something I've always wondered about.
One question has me always puzzled with this. That knowledge of 'the name it bore was much older' came from Catelyn’s POV, so she knows this? You’d think maybe the knowledge would pass down to the Lords of Winterfell, which would explain Ned returning the blade after Tower of Joy, but would they tell their wives? Their sons? Who else? Is it common knowledge?
So Catelyn only knows that there's an old tradition of Starks naming their sword ice, not necessarily what the specific origins of that tradition are. I would guess that the Starks themselves have forgotten the secret of Dawn... if anyone knows, it might be the Daynes, who strike me as stewards or keepers of the sword. Perhaps their house words will be a clue. Or perhaps John will simply end up with Dawn through circumstance, and we'll just use it without knowing its history, with George kind of leaving it for us to figure out. Or maybe Bran will discover the truth.
Yeah fair enough. Though if Ned knew, and Ser Arthur, it could give Ser Arthur’s sad smile and Ned’s sadness in his voice when he says ‘no, now it ends’ an entire new meaning.
Original Ice is Dawn. Current Ice is lightbringer. Eldric shadowchaser, azor ahai, came from the great empire of the dawn wielding a dragon made sword. At some point, those sword were swapped. Dawn might have been the nights king sword. As azor ahai defeated him, he claimed his sword, and returned to starfall. For the next generations, the sword of the morning is the one who wields Dawn, because it brings the morning.
Yeah I like a lot of this, particularly the idea Dawn / OG Ice was originally the sword of the NK, and was taken from him. That gives us a good reason to keep it in the south, as far away from the north as possible.
Awesome ugly sweater xD
Lucifer means Lightbringer
Hmmm this is kind of a theme of GRRM characters too what’s good isn’t all good and what’s bad isn’t all
Bad, I have a feeling those we think are villains will
He hero’s and those who are hero’s will be villans lol, and I can’t shake it.
It goes back to the original myth, as if the sun god who is a life giving ‘all father ‘ type of god did this horrible thing by piercing the moon and causing the long night.
@@DavidLightbringer I'm not really convinced. There are probably safer places to hide the sword then (maybe something like Naath, Lorath, the caves in Dorne, maybe even Oldtown).
interesting idea!
Symbolism in 13 minutes? Madness, who would even try this?
"Arthur Danye would have slain me (Ned) were it not for Howland Reed explaining that the Sword of the Morning was originally a Stark sword"
ahahahahaha
"No, look, it's okay, that's actually his"
I really like this format. It's nice to get a shorter more singularly focused vid! I always enjoy your content and this is no different!
As much as I like the livestreams, I miss this more profesh content. Keep it coming 👍
of course you know the edited livestreams are on the podcast feed right? Cheers :)
@@DavidLightbringer GG LML lets his uneducated fans know they're missing out kindly. Excuse me while I go join the silent sisters in penance.
Great summary of a complex idea! I find these short vids more accessible as I can watch them anytime and without having to stop and do something else. And it's easier for me to take in all your analysis- but maybe that's just my short attention span!
naw that's just real talk. I've been meaning to do something like this for a while... glad you liked it!
03:09 It also makes sense as Narsil reforged was renamed Andúril. :) Love the channel
Dig the format. For those extra ADHD days, try LML Lite.
Omg! This was great!!
I need More of these 13 min videos! I love all your podcasts and live streamings but most of the time I don't really have the time to watch them so this was just PERFECT!
I feel like there were a number of times that Jon mentioned how much he always wanted to wield Ice but knew it was impossible because Ned's sword wouldn't pass to him. Perhaps he was subconsciously drawn to/thinking of the original Ice instead....?
**insert Eddie Murphy tapping his forward knowingly gif**
Yeah, exactly. This is going to tie in SO nicely with the fact that Jon is the child of Arthur / Lyanna. Mwahaha, can't wait for it. GRRM is GENIUS.
No I think Jon is the child of Ashara and Ned N+A=J
Love the short format! More please!
One of the hardest deaths to watch in the show for me was the death of Ice... such a badass sword. And the fact that it was taken by Lannisters was just salt in the wound man...
I will ask the question all are thinking;
Is The Sword Of The Morning a reference to morning wood?
Woke up at Dawn to find this in my notifications, almost too good to be true.Thanks, LmL!
Excellent work - a perfect snack, to whet the appetite for a longer multi-course meal with wine pairings!
Love your long work. Love this format too. THANK YOU. The direct to camera is very good. Please keep it up.
I absolutely love this video! Your content is some of the best out there but I don’t always have time for long videos and then I end up forgetting to finish them. Please make more like this!!
i love that you are using michael klarfeldt's maps!
also these new short videos are a great way for the "deplorables" too learn about asoiaf :D
Fantastic stuff LmL. Keep it up man.
Excellent job. Always enjoy your work. Watched with a coworker non-book reader fan and he found it very easy to follow along. Looking forward to future videos.
13 minutes of mythhead concentrate. Excellent job, LML.
Excellent stuff as always my man 👊
I've always been rather fond of this theory. Also, I like this format quite well. I enjoy the livestreams, but this is quite accessible. Thank you.
I love your costumes. And I’ve always believed Dawn was Ice. It was never melted down for the iron throne.
Dorne didn’t submit to Aegon the Conqueror; none of their swords are on the throne, nutcase
@@GREENandYELLOW17the insult wasn't necessary
Love your content even though I'm catching up on all your thoughts and ideas. Definitely the video series to help make that happen for me, excited for the next installments!
I did love long format, and will always do... but this pills will make you shine as you deserve!!!❤️
You beautiful beast! Another fantastic video!
Fantastic stuff LmL. I expect nothing less.
Great job dragon, you hit it out of the ballpark.
Thanks Mermaid Queen!!
I was recommended to sub to you by Bridge 4 and now I see why.Good stuff:-)
Maybe. Just maybe. Dawn was made by a dragon who breathes white fire??
...an ice dragon, perhaps? Cold forging?
Lucifer means Lightbringer stop. Youre turning me on!!
@@Tubbs_1971 WHY IS THAT BLACK POND IN THE WINTERFELL GODSWOOD SO COLD?!? LoL
I like the idea that there's a melted Ice dragon puddle in the Winterfell godswood ❄️🐉🌞💧
In the books the dragons DO breathe fire that matches their color so it's possible
Well this was short....
Surprisingly, I like this short format!!!!
If you enjoyed this then take the deep dive and listen to LML's full length podcasts.
Nice work!
Loved the 13 ! How fast you can upload a video, you were just at the live stream! Lucifer super powers lol 😂
was at the livestream on my ipad ;)
Hey guys, long time no see 😊
Sick Gandolf beard edit btw haha
I saw the short video and forgot about the announcement so I figured it was a upload error. Glad to see you expanding your brand and I hope you find some new Mythheads with the lastest endeavor.... As long as I'm commenting your round table about sex workers in Westeros was at the very least on the cusp of groundbreaking journalism.
Wow, why have i never seen your channel before? This is great. And nice hat! I just subscribed :)
...let us never been apart again. ;)
If you like hats and things you have come to the right place!
Another mention of 12 + 1 that I just noticed today in Book 1; a dozen men died at Drogo and Dany's wedding celebration. If you count the death of Drogo it would come to 13 deaths that eventually put Dany on her path (onto the pyre to birth the dragons) in many ways. No idea if anyone has ever pointed this one out before but I thought it was a good one.
About to watch this now but I'm sure the content is great as always!
Also, this video is "13" minutes with LML
Ooh, that Sword of the Morning poster (the meteor/sword emblem) is sweet.
Love short format
LOVE the shorter format! I listen while doing other tasks, so I often have to watch in chunks as I'm rarely doing the same task for 3 hours. This will help me not lose the flow of the theory . Hope you'll do more this way.
That intro!! Great video
Thoroughly enjoyed this video!!!!!!! Makes a lot sense that the sword - Dawn could have been Ice and it was interesting that on the show, we saw a flash back at the tower of joy, when Ned went to check on Lyanna and laid a sword against the bed before he hurried to Lyanna’s side. Was the reason this was done for fan service or was it foreshadowing the need for the sword in season 8 to bring the dawn at the end of the long night?......will be interesting to see if this happens! I agree that it will have to be Jon to wield it! Would love to see more of these kind of videos! Thank you LML!!!!💜 (Love your costumes!)
Hi LML I love your new video. I think you should edit your Mythical Astronomy & Symbolism video from Con of Thrones to introduce your point of view to budding "Myth Heads". I was a bit intimidated by the material when I first discovered your videos, but you have broadened my world view. Thank you. You should also revisit Asshai in your LML in 13.
I was super excited that Alt Shift X mentioned you in his "East: The Strangest Places in Game of Thrones" video along with his use of Sanrixian's artwork. Cheers.
I think I will not reuse the con footage, but use the same material and condense it down. It's a good idea. Gonna do a few vids about the Others and then go back to some dragons, comets, and flaming swords :)
@@DavidLightbringer Your idea is great that is why you are LML!
I have actually also thought that the "war for the Dawn" ws actually who would possess the sword Dawn because it is the key to winning the war to end the long night.
Love the new format, I think it is really accessible. Especially appreciate the drawings (Sanrixian 💜) and the actual quote images, not that it isn't lovely to see your face too! Perhaps some different voices for the quotes could add to it going forward? Thanks LML 😊
I enjoyed this delving into the past.
LML! Love the content mate! Doing a bang up job!
Ive always felt like Dawn was the original Ice. I figured the Original Starks/the Kings Of Winter had made this Icy Sword from an Icy Moon Meteor that landed and created the Black Pool at Winterfell, explaining the Dragon(meteor) under Winterfell, thoughts?
If Dawn is Ice, then I have to wonder about a connection to the mysteriously cold pond in the WF godswood, yeah. I can picture our last hero tempering it in that pond, perhaps, as Ned cleans Ice in the pond when the story opens
Love the shorter videos!
I suffer from a serious blood magic curse of losing my place whilst watching UA-cam (on my phone) and having a hard time finding where I was.
Accidentally sliding the bar forwards/backwards, youtube deciding to automatically update halfway through, phone knocking around in my pocket + being an all round clumsy person etc.
This is *completely my fault* but I do appreciate only having to sort through 15 minutes of misplaced timestamps instead of 3 hrs 😂😂😂
Right on right on... you know I put all the streams up on a podcast feed, right? If you are listening on the go that's a lot easier than youtube. Just look up Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire for the main stuff, and Between 2 Weirwoods for those discussion panels. I'll have more short vids coming, but really it's just a different scale and scope. Of course there is a lot i can only really get into on the longer format, but it's fun to boil down the basic ideas and make a shorty too. :)
I think this condensed format came out pretty well, but of course I'm a regular listener of the podcast so I've got plenty of info (and the time to digest it). I'm gonna share it with some friends and see what they think of it.
Your videos are top notch
Great job LML! Cant wait for your livestream with grayarea
Please get Robert on? The discussions are super smart.
@@Go-Dawgs I've been trying actually, scheduling is tough around the holidays. But it WILL happen, we have a couple of ideas for panels that we are discussing. :)
I like this bite size LML, very tasty! LOL. Question: I wonder if Ice has any relationship to the swords of the Others, the description of their swords in the Prologue was very similar.
Literary analysis at its finest. Kudos to you sir
😀 that quick cut to grey beard lml
If the last hero had 12 companions, would that make him the 13th and the commander? Could be where the nights king story get intertwoven
the Ashara Dayne issue with Ned is somewhat a clue for your theory. the affair may not be true but something is sure connected between the Daynes and Starks
7:30
You would go to Tahoe and pull an Ice Sword hanging on some cabins roof on the beach 😅
So dope! Hahaha
haha I was wondering who would figure that out, lol, you nailed it!
I need you to be the voice on audiobooks for Game of Thrones.
Oh now, there are so many better. Still, I thank thee for the kind remarks :)
beautiful man
I've heard you talk about Thundarr the Barbarian, which is undeniably an inspiration for the world, one has only to watch the opening credits to see that. I mean even the main characters name and appearance is suggestive of Beric Dondarrion. But have you ever seen the opening for a cartoon called Blackstar? I had never heard of it before but I watched it and, well maybe I'm just starting to see Weirwoods, night kings and children of the forest everywhere but the imagery is there. The main character's name is Jon Blackstar and he wields half of a magic sword, the other half of which is wielded by the evil Overlord.
Oh shit I need to check that out!
Thanks,nice job!
Seems like we have more falling stars with magical powers.
This video produced a weird theory in my head. In the Azor Ahai myth, what if Nissa Nissa was a dragon? The steel came from a meteorite, a dragon, and Azor plunged it into a dragon which are, "fire made flesh", making it doubly a dragon-steel sword. Targaryens are speculated to be even descended from peoples who had relations with dragons, so what if Azor Ahai was one of their earliest ancestors, a man with a dragon consort, or wife.
cool video
Just reading AGOT Dany lll and came across this line. Down in the shadow lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and GLOWS IN THE DARK with spirits of the damned.
Got me thinking if the Dawn is the original Ice, the flaming sword of hero’s aka Lightbringer then maybe it glows in the dark when the long night comes, giving it the look that it’s on fire, and it’s not a literal flaming sword. Just a thought.
Thanks
Old Nan's story (A+ credibility!) of The Last Hero accounts that his sword froze and shattered. He was lost and near death. Somehow in the nick of time, he connected with the Children of the Forest, who were clueless of metal technology. How do you think he got the super-sword Ice/Dawn?
P.S. Thanks for the relatively brief and super-focused format. Even though I know you are very knowledgeable, I routinely skip watching all videos exceeding an hour. Less is more!!!
By the description I have always thought that Dawn was actually some kind of glass-ish ... crystal-ish sword that is some magical kind of dragon glass and early valyrian steel.
I love this!
great video LML
I think that the NK using an ice spear to bring down Viserion with radar skills and strength comparable to a F22 Raptor and the Starks sword being called ICE is not a coincidence. Winterfell, Starfall, The Daynes calling Edric NED in spite of Ned killing Arthur Dayne and not returning the body but bringing back the sword Jon was meant to have Longclaw was it really the family sword of the Mormonts? Jorah looked at it like he had never seen it.
Agree with a lot of that, though I think Longclaw is what it appears to be. It's pommel is made from a "pale stone," however, which could be foreshadowing of Jon wielding Dawn, which was made "from a pale stone of magical powers"
@@DavidLightbringer The Mormonts supposedly had the sword for 500 years 100 years longer than the Starks had ICE who gifted them Bear Island that fact seems strange as rare and expensive as they were. Maybe the sword was at the wall waiting for Jon. There are so many unexplained events concerning the Tower of Joy. It seems like a grand plan to protect him at all costs and get him to the wall when the time came. To this point only Jon, Sam and Meera are the only ones that have killed WW's curious Meera and Jon have a connection to the TOJ and Hornhill is close by.
Oh damn. You got to this theory 5 years before I thought of this
lemme know if you have anything to add
@DavidLightbringer I think between yourself, Alt Shift X, In Deep Geek and a few others, I really don't think I'd know anything you all don't. I get most of my knowledge outside of the books from the excellent work you guys do. And every time I get to a conclusion on something, I see you have already done a video on it weighing every conceivable angle, as well as detailing and debunking the more outrageous theories.
This is a great format! I have never heard this theory. Interesting points. If true, do you think it would give any credence to N+A=J?
No, actually, that's one of the ramifications of Dawn having once been Ice - Jon doesn't have to be a Dayne, really, if that's actually a Stark sword.
I totally get the question though, N + A = J fans usually like this theory :)
@@DavidLightbringer interesting theory!
People suspecting Jon to be Ashara's son could play well into his being named sword of the morning. It would be funny if he got this massive honorific from his fake heritage while his real Targ heritage goes unnoticed.
Half-way through the long night; "Oi, you're not a Dayne! Give back that sword!"
"Oh just let him get on with it."
B+A=J
Sir I think R+L=J is BS but if you think this true then Aegon the Unlikely's mother was from House Dayne. The Dawn is not pass down to heirs pass to person who best skill at sword. A Knight of House Dayne
Dawn being lightbringer is my primary theory on lightbringer so far. I think ned brought it to the crypts and jon will wield it or ned used it and renamed it Ice.
This format has mass likeability.
Where did you get that sweater???
LML in 13! It's the tide pod equivalent, so consentrated and so powerful 👍😬
Well done LML
Thank you, that was great.
All right follow me here because I wanna build off the theories you have. Dawn is the original Ice, but like you said it was given the name dawn after it broke the long night. Which means it has to be the sword wielded by azor ahai. Which means it was crafted by killing Nissa nissa, but not by stabbing here. Like you said the moon cracked when he did that and rained down meteors. And the sword was crafted from one of those meteors.
It cohod be that way, or there could be an older meteorite the Great Empire was making swords from. Perhaps the " pearl palanquin" of the first God Emperor
I love how LmL in 13 is actually 15.
I cackled about it way too much
I laughed quite a bit myself
Or Jon is a Dayne. He is the son of Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne. Order of the Greenhand proved that in their series about it.
Ned getting in all this trouble because he returned something that belonged to him
Love it!
maybe dragon steel was the empire of the dawn’s precursor version of Valyrian steel.
I tend to think “yes”
LML should’ve done the damn show!!!
Im not so sure the Last Hero was a Stark. I always liked the idea that everyones favourite house was acctually the villains in that story. Sure, Dawn was the original Ice, wielded by the Nights King, but the Last Hero was a Dayne, who defeated the Nights King, ended the Long Night, and took the sword to Starfall and named it Dawn, and created the title Sword of the Morning.
But the Nights King was after the Long Night people will say, and the Nights King was defeated by his brother, Im not sure about that either, the timeline is extremely uncertain at least until the Andals arrived with writing. And the Starks and the Daynes couldve been closely related back then, either by marriage, or by ties to the GEotD (Bloodstone Emperor = Stark, and Amethyst Empress = Dayne)
This time a Stark, Jon, will take Dawn from an evil Dayne, Gerold, and end the Long Night 2.0, righting the wrongs of his ancester, the Nights King, inversing the last time.
Nah, its just wishful thinking from me, fanfic, but I do love to fantasize about all this stuff :D
More evidence that John is the son of Ashara Dayne and Brandon Stark if he's going to wield Dawn. Instead of having to go back 5 generations for it to make sense in the R+L =J variant, it just makes sense. As the son of a Dayne + Stark, wouldn't that be way cooler as it unites the houses, thus bringing Ice + Dawn back together?
I really don't think so; the whole point of this theory is that Dawn may have been a Stark sword first, and may be a Stark sword again.
@@DavidLightbringer Exactly, Jon would be a Dayne AND a Stark if A + B =J is correct. It would be a Stark sword once more , but also Jon could be Sword of the Morning as a Dayne. Jon would also be heir to Starfall and heir to Winterfell. Not to mention it's a good way to get Dawn into John's hands if his identity were revealed.
I also love this thought: "Winter is Coming" are the Stark words, and with it the Long Night. The (albeit unconfirmed) words of House Dayne are "Dawn Brings Light".
Combining them gets us: "Winter is Coming, but Dawn Brings Light".
Jon always wanted ice!!! To get original ice would be awesome.
Lol I remember those sword references. About dawn/ morning light. I thought it might be of some note.
Yeah, especially when you look and find that these descriptions only happen to Starks or Stark swords!
Right . I wanted to ask - i might be a little ignorant of something but what about Ice I mean where are the two swords? Does Jaime have one on his way to Winterfell ? On the show any way? I know its a complete different story in the books. Do you think Ice could be put back together ? It just doesn't seem right that the Starks sword is not where it should be. Why of all swords you know? Probably doesn't mean much but its something I've always wondered about.
I've been watching a bunch of your video's recently. I can't help shake the music that plays at the beginning and end, is that from Monty python?
yes; it's the music that plays when they find the grail castle. It's called The Promised Land by Stanley Black :)
Great video lml ,isnt azor ahai from ashai?
One question has me always puzzled with this. That knowledge of 'the name it bore was much older' came from Catelyn’s POV, so she knows this? You’d think maybe the knowledge would pass down to the Lords of Winterfell, which would explain Ned returning the blade after Tower of Joy, but would they tell their wives? Their sons? Who else? Is it common knowledge?
So Catelyn only knows that there's an old tradition of Starks naming their sword ice, not necessarily what the specific origins of that tradition are. I would guess that the Starks themselves have forgotten the secret of Dawn... if anyone knows, it might be the Daynes, who strike me as stewards or keepers of the sword. Perhaps their house words will be a clue. Or perhaps John will simply end up with Dawn through circumstance, and we'll just use it without knowing its history, with George kind of leaving it for us to figure out. Or maybe Bran will discover the truth.
Yeah fair enough. Though if Ned knew, and Ser Arthur, it could give Ser Arthur’s sad smile and Ned’s sadness in his voice when he says ‘no, now it ends’ an entire new meaning.
Hey lml I thought that it was in print somewhere that the original ice was a big iron greatsword .... maybe I’m wrong
Dawn, to be carried by a formerly fallen Stark💜
I like the 13 format. Quick down & Dirty 😏
ASOS Jon IV: “The Sword of the Morning hung in the South.”
Jon the son of Ashara Dane can hold the office of sword of the morning
Yes! Love it. Thanks LML! #HailVaesperys