Getting/Improving your Confidence Rolling in Whitewater. Whitewater Kayak Tutorial
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2019
- Thanks so much to everyone who sends in ideas for video, I dig them. This week I went ahead and crushed out one I have received a few times in the last few months. Hopefully it helps build you some confidence rolling which will make rolling in whitewater better.
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Another way I find that works well for helping people to improve a roll they already have in the pool is to start teaching them a new roll they don't have (i.e. offside or back deck),. This normally leads to them ending up in all kinds of positions. It also means they get used to trying to roll with a little less energy/air, as may be the case when paddling a river.
Josh Veasy interesting input thanks!
Great video. I'd just like to point out that I spent years working on my roll, but wouldn't even attempt to try it in white water. Not everyone's confidence issues are technical... quite a lot of women in kayaking especially suffer from this - we can get into the wrong mindset so that when we capsize the fear takes over.
What helped me was doing stretches of river that were a little challenging, over and over again. Getting familiar. I got really used to swimming. Then one day I got bored of swimming and thought, 'I could just roll' . The fear left me... I could now think underwater. Now I try to roll out of any situation. Even if I have to try 3/4 times because I'm stuck in a hole, or because I rolled into a feature or rock.
The best thing to improve your confidence is knowing that not rolling/ swimming is NOT failing! You are learning all the time on white water. So get yourself out there and do more! :)
I do not disagree that mental is a big part of it, but I do believe that if your practical skills are better they go someways to overriding mental training. Just my two cents. thanks for checkin out the video.
The thing I found that seemed to help when I taught my buddy was that I would randomly flip him with no warning whilst talking with him. That seemed to be the best way of breaking his idea that he needed to set up. Mind you I warned him before hand as to not be too mean. That and getting him to do 3 consecutive tries at the roll before I would rescue him to get him to realize just how long he could carp rolls before needing to get out.
The 'try three times before I will help you rule" is the kind of tough live I endorse 110% good on ya!
This is 100% true and accurate. I can really see the experience of you man, so wise! I personally think that one the best way to learn a super-strong roll is practicing the hand-only roll. Without the paddle you can gain so much confidence and precision with your hip work that once you get back to the paddle you feel a lot safer. In my personal experience it was absolutely helpful being upside down in the wild water and knowing that in any moment I could leave the paddle and just roll, if I wasn't able to place it properly. Of course I wouldn't do that on purpose, a solid roll with the paddle is fast and you protect your body and your face... but mentally it's been a bless knowing how to hand roll! Anyone else with similar experience?
Thanks for the great compliment. Anecdotally I used to coach a group of guys every year that had stronger hand rolls than with a paddle and would often start rolling then, holding the paddling in one hand finish their roll as a hand roll. No matter how hard I tried I couldn't break them out of the habit. But it worked well for them and they were progressing year on year so, i guess if you have something that is working for you then it is working for you. weather that is best going forward only time will tell.
Seth I've gotta hand it to you, you're one of the best I see online with your instruction. I've seen many and I've been kayaking for 47 years. You make it very understandable. Which is the idea💡 turn on the light. Thanks
Thanks for checking it out! hit me up if you are struggling on other stuff I haven't made a video about yet
Good stuff! Getting to a setup position under water is totally the thing to practice.
beaglechaser23 it’s critical! Thanks for watching
100%!!! Nailed it! For me adding stern squirts on eddylines has helped me to increase spacial body awareness and roll confidence!
One of my instructors gave me another nice trick how to practice rolling: exhale before getting upside down. Usually when we get tipped over on the river we don't have a chance to get full lungs of air and this can be another stressful factor, but in fact, even with nearly empty lungs we have enough of oxygen in the bloodstream to attempt roll at least twice. So practicing in calm water but with empty lungs helps to get used to that state and can give more confidence during the real thing.
That's a great tip. Last time I swam, I had tried to take a breath before flipping. Instead, ended up with a mouth full of water and nearly empty lungs because I had just exhaled. Of course, I swallowed the river water. Attempted two roll attempts, then suffered an embarrassing swim. I'll try your suggestion on the lake tomorrow. Thank you.
Thanks Seth. I've been in the spot your talking about so many times. When I set up above water I can roll my tail off. But being caught off guard is not the same at all. So this is a necessary video.
Glad to help! Let me know if you get tangled up in anything else
Amen about the freestyle! I come across a lot of those people too!
Wealth of knowledge, thanks
Thanks for checking it out!
thanks for this content and encouragement. i came up in the fiberglass days in idaho paddling natural progression and dick held kayaks on some pretty big water. had a very solid roll (at least on my strong side) and used to teach kayaking for the outdoor program a bit at Idaho State Univ. But now, at 68 years old, missed a couple rolls this summer in only class III while playing in a set, and jumping over a foam pile covered boulder on a river near Santa Fe. anyway, got my pool roll back last year and it felt like the old days, so missing it on the river really pissing me off. going to do your drills in a nearby lake and get ready for next season. thanks again, cheers.
milllworks nice! Way to get back in the saddle. Most problems start in the brain so now you are on the way to overcoming that you will be back to running the gnar in no time.
I am now unpanicked!
It’s a process! Glad you are moving forward
I really like these tips to improve the roll. I was doing that alteady but certainly will do a lot more "crazy" capsizes now. Thanks for your video!
Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to check it out. I hope it helps you!
Nice One Seth. ManyThanks
Cliff Melhuish thanks for watching Cliff!
Id love to see a video on cartwheeling in holes or other hole surfing tricks
Great info👌
Whats Up thanks for watching! Let me know what else might be helpful to have explained in a video.
Whats Up 🤘🤘🔥
One thing I do is some of the advance roll positions you mentioned, but I hang out underwater till I pretty much am out of air then setup and roll. It has helped me deal with being in more of a panic mode and still staying calm and making that first attempt happen.
Daniel Thornton straight 🔥🔥🔥
Seth Ashworth still only class III with a couple class IV under my belt. Thanks for making this because it reminded me I need to go back and keep that roll fresh with some good tips.
good tip. First compliment I got from instructor when I was learning was "you're really comfortable underwater". I think that comfort level really helped me learn quicker.
There has been 1 time in 4 years of my paddling where I have set up before rolling on a rapid. I was in the French Alps, hit a wave, and knew that I was going to go over. As my last paddle stroke had left my paddle alongside me, near the correct position, I set up before going in. But that was once, in a very circumstantial place, and I must have rolled over 200 times since then, and not been set up.
Exactly! Thanks for checking out The video
It can also help to learn in a boat that's hard to roll. I spent ages trying to get it right in my first kayak. Then one day I paddled a 2Fun and nearly threw it all the way over the other side the first time I rolled it.
For sure some boats are slightly easier or harder than others but I think it largely comes down to outfitting. maybe that would be a useful video.
@@SethAshworth you're right there. The seating was awful in the boat so I used to sit way too high. I think that was a lot of the problem.
@@johnhenry4389 Preach!
I %100 agree with you on the freestyle kayaking part. I was always of the mindset of I just wanna paddle hard stuff and I don’t need to playboat. However, this summer I finally learned how to surf pretty well and I got addicted to surfing when nothing else was running. And while I messed up many times, it was a great learning experience for my roll. I appreciate all the content! I just wish I had some play spots in Washington.
Sounds like paddling options in Washington do not suck though from what I understand. A good freestyle spot is truly a gift though.
@@SethAshworth Haha no they do not disappoint. Also, surfing has been really helpful for getting out of tight situations and staying calm. I was practicing my stern squirts this summer, I got stern squirted at the bottom of a drop. Practicing it really made me feel calm in the stressful situation.
@@zachtom3132 Thats awesome. stern squirts are the shit!!
hey Seth I just wanted to say thank you for the awesome content. I was wondering if maybe you could do a video of different drills and even exercises to do to build muscle in the areas that lend themselves to paddling.
I need to do a video on building muscles that paddling does not build like glutes and quads!
Liked the tips. In my experiences people "running" rivers without surfing or playing any of the features, havent learned the basics about ferrying or surfing. Most likely paddle forward with a high paddle cadence in rapids. Never realizing they are speeding up the risks and impacts. Teach them to hide behind every rock on the way down ;-)
that's a whole other video right there! Thanks for watching
I have actually had my paddle already set up before I went over on a river once, but only because I had just put a stroke on the left, saw that I was capsizing, realised that I couldnt save it, so set up. It made an extremly quick roll. However, that was once out of 2 years of kayaking, so its rare.
James McCann sounds like you could have saved it!
Good drills, but I definitely think there is a psychological element. I found progressing from class 4 to class 5 was mostly about what was in my mind, and on that journey I lost my confidence (and with it my roll, boof and generally became more passive) then found it again and they came back
The mental battle is a part of it too. I think the step from 4->5 is more significant. I would say this video is more aimed at 2->3 3->4 ish. I think everyone has to find their own way in the 4-5 transition as their is a lot more in the line generally.
Thanks for the video Seth. This is where I’m at now. Got the whitewater roll, but not 100% confident in it, if I set up properly I get it, if I don’t, I can’t seem to get in position and just fail the roll, so frustrating as the rest of my kayaking is going well. Have started using these tips, will keep plugging away. Too old for freestyle lol
Personally I got super comfortable and confidence rolling by playing alot of competitve canoepolo. Find a canoepolo group that plays inside a pool during the winter, and you will have alot of fun and practicing different aspects of your kayaking.
Having people push you over, crashing into you and general carnage, tends you to learn how to roll in all situations, both with and without paddle.
Yea respect for those canoe polo savages. That is a hard game!
I'm terrible at holding my breath and terrible at water being in my eyes. I have some fundamental things to work on when it comes to being upside down.
Just keep chipping away and you will keep making progress. It’s a journey of many many tiny steps. Thanks for checking out the video and don’t stop.
i second the playboating it just finessed your roll where a creek boat lets you get away with too much, i paddled the dart this weekend in my creek boat for the first time in ages done a practice roll in it almost over rolled it lol
one thing i would add to the vid is try doing it in the flow of a rapid/weir, most of my skills developed from mucking about and messing up in the holes/waves on the weirs of the river exe in exeter (uk) and just learning from my mistakes
david ball I read somewhere the only difference between master and beginner is that the master has failed more times.
@@SethAshworth the master has failed more time's than the student has even tryed
Ye I saw that one somewhere recently as well it's a good one to remember
@@DavidBall717 It's the succeeding that makes you a master. The trying is how you find out which one you are going to do. All masters tried, failed and succeeded but a lots of people who tried just failed and then stick to being a 'very experienced beginner' or stop.
Not many people think about practicing hooking your legs. To be comfortable holding your breathe, your paddle, your cockpit rim, and getting your leg(s) out and back into the thigh hook, with roll to finish will prevent swims. Who hasn't had a leg slip?
I think once you are aware that if your leg 'slips' it is a conscious choice you will start to see less 'slips', prevention is better than an awkward wriggle for sure.
Thanks for the great tips! When I first started out, this is exactly how I rolled, that being get the paddle to the "home position" then C2C or Sweep Roll upright. I've now adopted the "No Set-up" or "Intuitive Roll" (first taught to me by E.J.) as I don't want to spend time upside down getting whacked in our shallow rivers. As such, that roll can have varied success. So I was wondering if you could present another video of "intuitive rolling" wherein you're grabbing water (sometimes by a "figure 8" stroke) from any position to then sweep forward, backward, back deck, whatever - to get yourself upright. And thus you can eliminate spending those 2-3 seconds getting into a textbook, "home base" set-up position. THANKS!
I will have a think about this one Bob, my initial reaction was you can either roll from where you are or go back to 'home base' position. Mostly from the point of view of not encouraging people into bad habits. For example the sec you spend trying to figure 8 your way into a rolling position is 33-50% of the time it would take to just go back to 'setup/home base', further if you miss that roll you have to go back anyway so now it is actually costing more time. However I will sometimes hang out in the upside down position and just figure out where I am at before making my next move, so maybe that is closer to what you are saying. I'm gonna think on it and get back to you. Thanks for checking out this video!
@@SethAshworth Thanks for your always informative reply. Here's exactly what I'm talking about with E.J., starting at Timestamp 3:00: ua-cam.com/video/cBtL3Ko4Nfs/v-deo.html
Love the video. Thanks! I wish I could roll without the noseplug. You seem to have it down. It burns really bad for me so I submit to wearing the noseplugs. I am a scuba diver and am aware of blowing through my nose however being inverted water still gets in my nose. Any thoughts or suggestions? Maybe another video?
It takes time and practice and a slow weening off. I used to be religious nose plug user but little but little I got off it. It is all about exposure I think and gradual steps. It probably won't happen overnight.
Very graceful and relaxed. You appear to be able to roll in slow motion without using hardly any power with the paddle. Is that a result of perfect timing ?
It is actually just as a result of hip/leg power, similar to a ducks feet working hard below the surface but out of sight. Hips and legs do the work. Partly through practicing hard on not relying on the paddle and partly through getting outfitting just right. I have some videos on my outfitting set up too. check out the 'how i outfit' video which shows how I outfit that Nirvana in particular.
In calm water, with goggles, throw paddles away a couple of metres. Doggy paddle over to them, get them and roll up. Then go play at Hurley on three or four gates 😉
Angus Robins yes but without the goggles!
Seth Ashworth blimey mate, I like to see where my paddles are even if I have to swim to them 😂
maybe, maybe not. Maybe those goggles are an unnecessary crutch. maybe not. hard saying not knowing!
Super legit point to this video regarding paddle positions and practicing.
Constantly starting out with the same paddle position can pigeon hole learning w this vid is awesome about pointing out ✌️✌️
Hope it helps you? Thanks for watching !!
My roll is really reliable when I flip in deep water, but I'm quick to pull my skirt when my head or body bounces off a rock. Is this just a matter of building mental toughness? Any exercises you'd recommend?
I would say there is a good chance your roll is less reliable than you think if you are still swimming frequently. SO I would for sure practice the drills in this video, freestyle paddle more to build up a 'faster' roll and then when the time comes that you are upside down again in a shallow spot you know you will be able to quickly get out of there which is usually way better than swimming because lets be real, if it is shallow enough your touching the bottom swimming is gonna mean slamming your butt and that is no fun (trust me i have done it!)
as a beginner i want to get a touring kayak so loaded down for a weekend trek and getting turned over would these still work for what im looking at doing ? lakes here can change in 20 mins to conditions, river kayaking class 2 rivers, and fishing thats alot of stuff on a touring kayak is there maybe some excersizes one can do to be able to do this. fyi im 56 and not in the best of shape but thats why i want to get into kayaking . i hope you understand what im asking. great advice!! so far thanks for the vids
Same method should help you improve your roll. Loaded kayaks are usually a bit more challenging but good technique wins every time so try and keep the weight down and get after it. I recommend getting a friend to film you too, so that you can look for technique flaws.
Two points:
1) If properly loaded, with heaviest items low down and close to the keel and lightest items higher up (closer to the deck), the kayak should be easier to right, like a bottom-heavy child's toy that wobbles but won't fall down.
2) If the boat is loaded and you practice a lot of rolls, be prepared for much water seepage into the holds.
@@BladePressure you're funny
A large part of my lack of confidence upside down is the cold. Albertan glacier water is instant brain freeze. Sucks the breath out of you.
It is the same on the Ottawa in the spring time. I find an extra thermal layer just on my body makes a big difference. I usually use a very old, very thin wool t-shirt layer that goes under my onsie and it makes a huge difference. Try it out! But if it sucks to roll it must suck way worse to swim!
Seth Ashworth there are days where I’ll wear 3 wool mid layers and still be cold! It’s brutal but for some reason I still can’t stay away!
Working on reminding myself that staying IN my boat is the less cold option. I got a weird piece of advice that if you constantly splash water on your face it stays cold and you don’t get that “oh my god that’s cold” gasp as soon as your face is under the water, so you don’t get winded, so you don’t instantly pull your skirt because there’s no air in your body.
"you are (almost) always better in your boat" is the moniker I live by. But i get it, Glacial rivers are tough. The ones I have experienced in Europe had a lot of these characteristics too. Tough to say if there is a quick fix or not that I am missing .
Ideas or different techniques for boat rescue. I think the sheer weight of the water logged boat, and current strength, makes it very risky. I think a lot of people are scared to try harder water because they don't want to loose a boat. Some thoughts or ideas on saving "my buddies boat" would be appreciated. I have personally had several close calls, because I tried something stupid.
I love it. Boat rescue is a hot topic for sure and largely you kind of have to have those experiences to improve I suspect i can scheme up some ways to train for it and avoid the risky situations all together. I will have think on it. Cheers!
Freestyle is fine if you have a great feature you can just go to. But those kind of boats suck for actually running the river.
What makes you say that? What kind of areas are we talking about ? Would love to get some. More info on this because I have a couple thoughts I’d love to share with you.
@@SethAshworth Well, granted I'm not at the level you are, but I've been paddling a long time. I'm starting to miss some rolls which is why I was watching your video. ( Great tips there.) Probably from just not paddling enough. My boats are: project 64, Axiom, Nirvana. So the Project is a fairly modern freestyle kayak that I only use in the early summer when certain big wave holes are in a high water that lack any serious rapid below it. But it just seems to get worked in bigger rapids that would be no problem in the axiom. My friend is the same with his ripper/Rockstar which he would never take down the Fall river at high waterl. That's like asking for trouble. Even though there are a couple of stellar playspots, it's just not worth it. That's the general consensus of everyone I know.
Awesome! So here is my thoughts, you will
Improve most of your paddling is always in a level of challenge above boredom and below panic. That sweet spot is different for every person and will change as your experience changes. So if you want your freestyle to improve you have to find that Zone. If that means you have to portage some
Rapids to get to surf rad waves, it’s probably worth a try. Also figuring out the tactics of paddling in smaller boats, ie body weight placement, line selection etc is another thing that will improve your overall paddling game. These are all the broad accessory work that will make your overall paddling much better. So there’s my two cents. Let me know what you reckon!
A roll (front deck, back deck, sweep excreta) is nothing more than just another paddle stroke but your head is temporary underwater, stop thinking about it as a a roll, you are just freaking yourself out for no reason. Play boating will teach you that you can roll with your paddle in almost any position going in any direction which in turn will help you not to flip in the first place.
I've been practicing all summer. Even got a great coach , just can not get it .
Greg Adams got a video.?
@greg Adams And if you do have a video shoot it over to me and I’ll see if I can help
Thank you sir. I will have the wive video tape me in the pool . My coach RK Pete says it's close but I just cant seem to Bend back enough . 57 YO with old injures that frankly make it hurt
@@gregadams2162 Right on man, shoot me a link or send it to me and i will see what I can see.
The biggest problem I have when rolling is, that happens something, that requires me to wait. And I am not able to do so. I start to panic and swim. For example situation, when I get upside down, but not completely, just partialy. My head is under the water, but the boat did not make the 180 rotation. Then I am like: what the fuck am I supposed to do now? I try to set up, but it obviously wont work, then I panic and swim. Sad story.
A lot of it comes down to just spending more time underwater but not set up. Then going into that setup position and rolling up. being confident that your roll is good will help right ?!
@@SethAshworth yeah. Think you are right. Gonna do the drills.
Why am I even watching this? I can’t roll my kayak in flat water.
It’s a long journey sometimes. Focus on hip/leg power and keeping your head down!
Who is this geez pretending to be Seth?
John Henry fingers crossed I’ll be back with a beard in a few more weeks
Background music is as loud as your voice, super distracting.
Electric Tie Dye thanks for letting me know. What device are you watching on? Headphones or no?
I didn't have a problem with that, and my hearing is degrading.
@@SethAshworth I can hear you just fine. Maybe through speakers it could be a problem. Maybe I just like the music enough that it doesn't bother me.
@@Matkatamiba Thanks, the mystery continues I guess.
Watching/listening on mobile, no headphones. It's not like I can't hear you, just felt like the music was a bit too loud and I kept getting distracted by that sitar. Dig your vids and podcast! Thanks for cranking out the content!
Too much talk Seth...more visuals